Resurrecting this old thread.

I also have an old Mackie 1604-VLZ with intermittent channel issues. Was thinking of replacing all of the ribbon cables but I'm unsure how to source replacements.

Does anyone have any further direction on that?

Thanks!

On Saturday, November 3, 2018 at 5:39:35 AM UTC-4, Mike Rivers wrote:
> On 11/2/2018 11:16 PM, Ron C wrote:
> > Seems that board suffers from that ribbon cable oxidation
> > problem that I seem to recall was common to them.
> Mackie did have a ribbon cable problem at one time and they were sending
> out replacement cables, but I don't believe the problem was with the
> smaller mixers, only on the larger SR series and the d8b digital
> console. Still, connectors can get cruddy with age and non-use, but they
> usually respond to a shot of contact cleaner and a little exercise
> (disconnect and re-connect the connection a few times). Don't forget
> that ribbon cables have connectors on both ends. One end is usually easy
> to get to, the other end sometimes is buried.
> > Can I still get replacement ribbon cables for that board?
> Not from Mackie, but the connectors and cable are standard parts, so it
> would be possible to have new ones made if you really wanted to rescue
> the console. But ribbon cables aren't the only thing that can go wrong.
> > Has Mackie solved the ribbon cable problem in the new board?
> The Mackie of today is very different from the Mackie that built your
> 1604 VLZ. The new mixers are completely made in China, so if there's a
> chronic problem (and I haven't heard of one, but then I don't keep close
> tabs on them) it's surely not the same problem that they had 20 years ago.
>
>
> --
>
> For a good time, call http://mikeriversaudio.wordpress.com

Rob Levin <rslevin@gmail.com> wrote:
>Resurrecting this old thread.
>
>I also have an old Mackie 1604-VLZ with intermittent channel issues. Was thinking of replacing all of the ribbon cables but I'm unsure how to source replacements.
>
>Does anyone have any further direction on that?

I bet Mackie still has them in stock if you ask, but they won't be free.

However I also bet if you clean the old ones with DeOxit and put a little
dab of dielectric grease on them, they will be fine in spite of the lower
contact area.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

Scott Dorsey wrote:
================
>
> >I also have an old Mackie 1604-VLZ with intermittent channel issues.
> > Was thinking of replacing all of the ribbon cables but I'm unsure how to source replacements.
> >
> >Does anyone have any further direction on that?
>
>
> I bet Mackie still has them in stock if you ask, but they won't be free.
>

** Would be very old stock and have the same issue.

> However I also bet if you clean the old ones with DeOxit and put a little
> dab of dielectric grease on them, they will be fine in spite of the lower
> contact area.

** The bad contacts were with the IDC and cable - not the pins.

Shameful of Mackie to have the ( very rare) problem happen and NEVER solve it.

Parallels with Marshall recently selling tens of thousands of 100W and 50W tube amps with defective PCBs.
Never any recalls or compensation to buyers for having to buy new ones, most also defective.

....... Phil

palli...@gmail.com <pallison49@gmail.com> wrote:
>Scott Dorsey wrote:
>================
>
> ** Would be very old stock and have the same issue.
>
>> However I also bet if you clean the old ones with DeOxit and put a little
>> dab of dielectric grease on them, they will be fine in spite of the lower
>> contact area.
>
> ** The bad contacts were with the IDC and cable - not the pins.
>
> Shameful of Mackie to have the ( very rare) problem happen and NEVER solve it.
They definitely did fix it, because the replacement cables that they
provided were from a different manufacturer and did not fail. This
was discussed here extensively back when it happened in the nineties.

At the time, they said the problem was because the male header and female
connector were from different vendors and did not have the same shape
contacts. I don't know if this is true or not, but I do know that reseating
and greasing the contacts seemed to fix things if not permanently at least
for a good long time.
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

Scott Dorsey wrote:
=================
>
> > ** Would be very old stock and have the same issue.
> >
> >> However I also bet if you clean the old ones with DeOxit and put a little
> >> dab of dielectric grease on them, they will be fine in spite of the lower
> >> contact area.
> >
> > ** The bad contacts were with the IDC and cable - not the pins.
> >
> > Shameful of Mackie to have the ( very rare) problem happen and NEVER solve it.
>
> They definitely did fix it, because the replacement cables that they
> provided were from a different manufacturer and did not fail.

** I saw several Mackies with replacement cables ( sold as a set) with the SAME issue after a year or two.

>
> At the time, they said the problem was because the male header and female
> connector were from different vendors and did not have the same shape
> contacts.

** Horse manure.

The problem was incompatible ribbon cable and IDC pins.
One had only to touch the ribbon itself to hear signals drop in and out.
Re-tightening the headers in a vice often helped, for a time.

Never seen the same issue with ANY other cables.
Same goes for Marshall, severely leaking PCB material is unheard of in guitar amps.

...... Phil

Thanks for your replies. I'm just surprised to not find anything online regarding these. You'd think there would be more detailed information on how to fix it somewhere but I haven't found anything except forum postings talking about the replacement cable set (which of course is not available anymore).

I'll reach out to Mackie and maybe someone there can point me in the right direction.

On Thursday, September 1, 2022 at 11:08:09 PM UTC-4, palli...@gmail.com wrote:
> Scott Dorsey wrote:
> ================> >
> > > ** Would be very old stock and have the same issue.
> > >
> > >> However I also bet if you clean the old ones with DeOxit and put a little
> > >> dab of dielectric grease on them, they will be fine in spite of the lower
> > >> contact area.
> > >
> > > ** The bad contacts were with the IDC and cable - not the pins.
> > >
> > > Shameful of Mackie to have the ( very rare) problem happen and NEVER solve it.
> >
> > They definitely did fix it, because the replacement cables that they
> > provided were from a different manufacturer and did not fail.
> ** I saw several Mackies with replacement cables ( sold as a set) with the SAME issue after a year or two.
> >
> > At the time, they said the problem was because the male header and female
> > connector were from different vendors and did not have the same shape
> > contacts.
> ** Horse manure.
>
> The problem was incompatible ribbon cable and IDC pins.
> One had only to touch the ribbon itself to hear signals drop in and out.
> Re-tightening the headers in a vice often helped, for a time.
>
> Never seen the same issue with ANY other cables.
> Same goes for Marshall, severely leaking PCB material is unheard of in guitar amps.
>
>
> ..... Phil

On 3/09/2022 12:47 AM, Robert Levin wrote:
> Thanks for your replies. I'm just surprised to not find anything online regarding these. You'd think there would be more detailed information on how to fix it somewhere but I haven't found anything except forum postings talking about the replacement cable set (which of course is not available anymore).
>
> I'll reach out to Mackie and maybe someone there can point me in the right direction.
>
> On Thursday, September 1, 2022 at 11:08:09 PM UTC-4, palli...@gmail.com wrote:
>> Scott Dorsey wrote:
>> =================
>>>
>>>> ** Would be very old stock and have the same issue.
>>>>
>>>>> However I also bet if you clean the old ones with DeOxit and put a little
>>>>> dab of dielectric grease on them, they will be fine in spite of the lower
>>>>> contact area.
>>>>
>>>> ** The bad contacts were with the IDC and cable - not the pins.
>>>>
>>>> Shameful of Mackie to have the ( very rare) problem happen and NEVER solve it.
>>>
>>> They definitely did fix it, because the replacement cables that they
>>> provided were from a different manufacturer and did not fail.
>> ** I saw several Mackies with replacement cables ( sold as a set) with the SAME issue after a year or two.
>>>
>>> At the time, they said the problem was because the male header and female
>>> connector were from different vendors and did not have the same shape
>>> contacts.
>> ** Horse manure.
>>
>> The problem was incompatible ribbon cable and IDC pins.
>> One had only to touch the ribbon itself to hear signals drop in and out.
>> Re-tightening the headers in a vice often helped, for a time.
>>
>> Never seen the same issue with ANY other cables.
>> Same goes for Marshall, severely leaking PCB material is unheard of in guitar amps.
>>
>>
>> ..... Phil

I always understood that the Mackie thing was a metallurgical issue.

geoff

geoff wrote:
=========
>
> I always understood that the Mackie thing was a metallurgical issue.
>

** No fooling?

See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Insulation-displacement_connector

IMO IDC = Inherently Dodgy Connection.

...... Phil

On 4/09/2022 12:55 pm, palli...@gmail.com wrote:
> geoff wrote:
> =========
>>
>> I always understood that the Mackie thing was a metallurgical issue.
>>
>
> ** No fooling?
>
> See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Insulation-displacement_connector
>
> IMO IDC = Inherently Dodgy Connection.
>
>
> ..... Phil

Funny how so many have been operating entirely reliably, much of the
world's infrastructure depending on them, for many decades.

geoff

palli...@gmail.com <pallison49@gmail.com> wrote:
> geoff wrote:
> =========
>>
>> I always understood that the Mackie thing was a metallurgical issue.
>>
>
> ** No fooling?
>
> See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Insulation-displacement_connector
>
> IMO IDC = Inherently Dodgy Connection.
>
>
> ..... Phil
>

Tell that to the phone and internet companies. They seem to have done okay
with punch down blocks and IDC RJ45s.

geoff wrote:
==========
> On 4/09/2022 12:55 pm, palli...@gmail.com wrote:
> > geoff wrote:
> > =========
> >>
> >> I always understood that the Mackie thing was a metallurgical issue.
> >>
> >
> > ** No fooling?
> >
> > See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Insulation-displacement_connector
> >
> > IMO IDC = Inherently Dodgy Connection.
> >
> >
> Funny how so many have been operating entirely reliably,

** Not in live sound geara it hasn't.

All the moving about soon finds the dodgy ones,

> of the
> world's infrastructure depending on them, for many decades.

** Horse poo.

Ralph Boring One wrote:
=====================
> > ** No fooling?
> >
> > See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Insulation-displacement_connector
> >
> > IMO IDC = Inherently Dodgy Connection.
> >
> >

> >
> Tell that to the phone and internet companies.

** Yawwnnn...

Smartarse bullshit = no case to answer.

palli...@gmail.com <pallison49@gmail.com> wrote:
> Ralph Boring One wrote:
> =====================
>>> ** No fooling?
>>>
>>> See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Insulation-displacement_connector
>>>
>>> IMO IDC = Inherently Dodgy Connection.
>>>
>>>
>
>>>
>> Tell that to the phone and internet companies.
>
> ** Yawwnnn...
>
> Smartarse bullshit = no case to answer.
>

Please remember after you have finished insulting the person, to remember
to actually respond to what they had to say :-)

Ralph Boring One wrote:
=====================
>
> >>> ** No fooling?
> >>>
> >>> See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Insulation-displacement_connector
> >>>
> >>> IMO IDC = Inherently Dodgy Connection.
> >>>
> >
> >>>
> >> Tell that to the phone and internet companies.
> >
> > ** Yawwnnn...
> >
> > Smartarse bullshit = no case to answer.
> >
> Please remember after you have finished insulting the person, to remember
> to actually respond to what they had to say :-)
>
>

** FFS moron - YOU had *nothing* to say.

Just a dumb as dogshit, mindless insult.

On 4/09/2022 4:35 pm, palli...@gmail.com wrote:
> Ralph Boring One wrote:
> =====================
>>> ** No fooling?
>>>
>>> See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Insulation-displacement_connector
>>>
>>> IMO IDC = Inherently Dodgy Connection.
>>>
>>>
>
>>>
>> Tell that to the phone and internet companies.
>
> ** Yawwnnn...
>
> Smartarse bullshit = no case to answer.
>
>
>

Time for your meds again Phil. Lithium is it, or something more advanced ?

geoff

palli...@gmail.com <pallison49@gmail.com> wrote:
> Ralph Boring One wrote:
> =====================
>>
>>>>> ** No fooling?
>>>>>
>>>>> See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Insulation-displacement_connector
>>>>>
>>>>> IMO IDC = Inherently Dodgy Connection.
>>>>>
>>>
>>>>>
>>>> Tell that to the phone and internet companies.
>>>
>>> ** Yawwnnn...
>>>
>>> Smartarse bullshit = no case to answer.
>>>
>> Please remember after you have finished insulting the person, to remember
>> to actually respond to what they had to say :-)
>>
>>
>
> ** FFS moron - YOU had *nothing* to say.
>
> Just a dumb as dogshit, mindless insult.
>

Since you seemed perfectly capable of spewing invective, but not so capable
of understanding my (admittedly tersely worded) post, let me try it again
using more words.

Insulation displacement connectors have been used by phone and internet
companies for decades. The 66 and 110 IDC terminal blocks
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/66_block
have been in use for 60 years, which seems a long time to be using an
“inherently dodgy connector”. Ethernet connections are made using a
combination of punchdown (IDC) and crimp (close enough) connections, so the
fact that you are able to reply to this post is evidence that IDC
connectors are reliable.

What went wrong for Mackie? I don’t know. Maybe it was a mechanical issue
(wire was marginally too small for the connector, so insufficient spring
pressure) or metallurgical (incompatible metals), or the cables were badly
assembled. That does not prove your assertion that all IDC connectors are
inherently dodgy.

Now that I have used more words, please feel free to respond to the
content. Mindless insults will be, of course ignored.

PS: Apologies for using the phrase IDC connector. It’s wrong, but to leave
out the superfluous “connector” sounds wrong.

Ralph Barone Bullshitting IDIOT :
===========================
>
> >>>>> ** No fooling?
> >>>>>
> >>>>> See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Insulation-displacement_connector
> >>>>>
> >>>>> IMO IDC = Inherently Dodgy Connection.
>>
> >>>>>
> >>>> Tell that to the phone and internet companies.
> >>>
> >>> ** Yawwnnn...
> >>>
> >>> Smartarse bullshit = no case to answer.
> >>>
> >> Please remember after you have finished insulting the person, to remember
> >> to actually respond to what they had to say :-)
> >>
> >
> > ** FFS moron - YOU had *nothing* to say.
> >
> > Just a dumb as dogshit, mindless insult.
> >
> Since you seemed perfectly capable of spewing invective,
>

** That is a MASSIVE lie.

What a VILE person you are, Ralph.
A toxic narcissist, pedant and ego manic.
Bet your parents were vile too.

FOAD.

...... Phil

palli...@gmail.com <pallison49@gmail.com> wrote:
> Ralph Barone Bullshitting IDIOT :
> ===========================
>>
>>>>>>> ** No fooling?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Insulation-displacement_connector
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> IMO IDC = Inherently Dodgy Connection.
>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> Tell that to the phone and internet companies.
>>>>>
>>>>> ** Yawwnnn...
>>>>>
>>>>> Smartarse bullshit = no case to answer.
>>>>>
>>>> Please remember after you have finished insulting the person, to remember
>>>> to actually respond to what they had to say :-)
>>>>
>>>
>>> ** FFS moron - YOU had *nothing* to say.
>>>
>>> Just a dumb as dogshit, mindless insult.
>>>
>> Since you seemed perfectly capable of spewing invective,
>>
>
> ** That is a MASSIVE lie.
>
> What a VILE person you are, Ralph.
> A toxic narcissist, pedant and ego manic.
> Bet your parents were vile too.
>
> FOAD.
>
>
>
> ..... Phil
>
>
>

Awfully nice of you to snip my post showing the reasons why I thought your
original post was wrong.

PS: It’s best not to stare into a mirror when you’re posting. You may
inadvertently post about yourself instead of the person you’re replying to.

Ralph Barone: Toxic Narcisist & Troll:
===============================
>
> >>> ** FFS moron - YOU had *nothing* to say.
> >>>
> >>> Just a dumb as dogshit, mindless insult.
> >>>
> >> Since you seemed perfectly capable of spewing invective,
> >>
> >
> > ** That is a MASSIVE lie.
> >
> > What a VILE person you are, Ralph.
> > A toxic narcissist, pedant and ego manic.
> > Bet your parents were vile too.
> >
> > FOAD.
> >
> >
> Awfully nice of you to snip my post showing the reasons why I thought your
> original post was wrong.
>

** Listen asshole.

You are soooo fucking autistic, pedantic and stupid you have ZERO idea what I wrote *actually meant*.
In fact, you have IGNORED what I wrote and substituted you own, wrong assumptions.

YOU are the vile child of even viler parents.

........ Phil

palli...@gmail.com <pallison49@gmail.com> wrote:
> Ralph Barone: Toxic Narcisist & Troll:
> ===============================
>>
>>>>> ** FFS moron - YOU had *nothing* to say.
>>>>>
>>>>> Just a dumb as dogshit, mindless insult.
>>>>>
>>>> Since you seemed perfectly capable of spewing invective,
>>>>
>>>
>>> ** That is a MASSIVE lie.
>>>
>>> What a VILE person you are, Ralph.
>>> A toxic narcissist, pedant and ego manic.
>>> Bet your parents were vile too.
>>>
>>> FOAD.
>>>
>>>
>> Awfully nice of you to snip my post showing the reasons why I thought your
>> original post was wrong.
>>
>
> ** Listen asshole.
>
> You are soooo fucking autistic, pedantic and stupid you have ZERO idea
> what I wrote *actually meant*.
> In fact, you have IGNORED what I wrote and substituted you own, wrong assumptions.
>
> YOU are the vile child of even viler parents.
>
>
>
>
> ....... Phil
>

OK, then explain what you really meant. Actually participate in the
discussion and point out how I have misunderstood you. And see if you can
do it without the heaping dose of abuse that you have been sprinkling on
every one of your replies.

Ralph Barone: Toxic Narcisist & Troll:
===============================
>>
> >
> > ** Listen asshole.
> >
> > You are soooo fucking autistic, pedantic and stupid you have ZERO idea
> > what I wrote *actually meant*.
> > In fact, you have IGNORED what I wrote and substituted you own, wrong assumptions.
> >
> > YOU are the vile child of even viler parents.
> >
> >
> OK, then explain what you really meant.

** I wrote it all here - you did not fucking read it ALL,

> Actually participate in the
> discussion and point out how I have misunderstood you.

** No way - you dumbfuck asshole.

palli...@gmail.com <pallison49@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Ralph Barone: Toxic Narcisist & Troll:
> ===============================
>>>
>>>
>>> ** Listen asshole.
>>>
>>> You are soooo fucking autistic, pedantic and stupid you have ZERO idea
>>> what I wrote *actually meant*.
>>> In fact, you have IGNORED what I wrote and substituted you own, wrong assumptions.
>>>
>>> YOU are the vile child of even viler parents.
>>>
>>>
>> OK, then explain what you really meant.
>
> ** I wrote it all here - you did not fucking read it ALL,
>
>> Actually participate in the
>> discussion and point out how I have misunderstood you.
>
> ** No way - you dumbfuck asshole.
>
>
>

You’re not making this easy, are you?

You had written two things that weren’t insults:

1) “The problem was incompatible ribbon cable and IDC pins.
One had only to touch the ribbon itself to hear signals drop in and out.
Re-tightening the headers in a vice often helped, for a time. ”

2) “IMO IDC = Inherently Dodgy Connection”

So as far as I can tell, you said that Mackie mixed parts that shouldn’t
have been combined, and the resultant assembly wasn’t reliable (which I
agree is quite plausible) and then you said that IDCs are “inherently
dodgy”, which I disagreed with. Like any other component that is meant to
interface with another component, there are defined tolerances on the
interface, and if you violate this tolerances, things don’t work. This does
not mean that the concept is inherently bad, but simply that certain key
dimensions need to have attention paid to them. If I built an XLR connector
which was 10% larger, it would be a compatibility disaster, but that
doesn’t invalidate that the XLR is a generally good design. I had pointed
out that the successful use of IDC connectors in the telecom and internet
industries for 60 years implied that they were not “inherently dodgy”.

So what didn’t I read, and what didn’t I understand?