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tech / alt.engineering.electrical / Re: Over 1 million people without power, can't charge EV cars - paralysis.

SubjectAuthor
* Re: Over 1 million people without power, can't charge EV cars - paralysis.R Kym Horsell
`* Re: Over 1 million people without power, can't charge EV cars - paralysis.Klaus Schadenfreude
 +* Re: Over 1 million people without power, can't charge EV cars - paralysis.Solos
 |+* Re: Over 1 million people without power, can't charge EV cars - paralysis.R Kym Horsell
 ||`- Re: Over 1 million people without power, can't charge EV cars - paralysis.Klaus Schadenfreude
 |`- Re: Over 1 million people without power, can't charge EV cars - paralysis.Klaus Schadenfreude
 +* Re: Over 1 million people without power, can't charge EV cars - paralysis.gfretwell
 |`* Re: Over 1 million people without power, can't charge EV cars -bud--
 | `* Re: Over 1 million people without power, can't charge EV cars - paralysis.gfretwell
 |  `* Re: Over 1 million people without power, can't charge EV cars -bud--
 |   `- Re: Over 1 million people without power, can't charge EV cars - paralysis.gfretwell
 +- Re: Over 1 million people without power, can't charge EV cars - paralysis.Scout
 `- Re: Over 1 million people without power, can't charge EV cars - paralysis.Buffalo

1
Re: Over 1 million people without power, can't charge EV cars - paralysis.

<to77qa$to5$1@gioia.aioe.org>

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From: kym...@kymhorsell.com (R Kym Horsell)
Newsgroups: alt.global-warming,alt.engineering.electrical,talk.politics.guns
Subject: Re: Over 1 million people without power, can't charge EV cars - paralysis.
Date: Sat, 24 Dec 2022 16:02:19 -0000 (UTC)
Organization: kymhorsell.com
Message-ID: <to77qa$to5$1@gioia.aioe.org>
References: <to6ijg$3lk89$1@news.mixmin.net>
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 by: R Kym Horsell - Sat, 24 Dec 2022 16:02 UTC

In alt.global-warming Hawaii Moon <emailed@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Region Outages
> New England 419,679
> Mid-Atlantic 235,505
> South East 74,503
> South 34,683
> Pacific 25,827
> Great Lakes 18,811
> Territories 4,169
> MidWest 1,250
> Mountain 133
>
> https://poweroutage.us/area/regions
>
> Looks like the Biden New England liberal assholes can't supply
> electricity.

419000 "outages"? Doesn't seem to jive with the data at
https://www.oe.netl.doe.gov/
shows there have not been 5000 "outages" altogether in the past 20y.

You seem to have latched onto the populations of the different areas
and have "discovered" more people live in New England than the Great Lakes.

Wow. Novel material!

Re: Over 1 million people without power, can't charge EV cars - paralysis.

<f2beqht1m4nfq4j2q4vdefqjqgfhut3d4c@4ax.com>

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From: klaus.sc...@gmail.com (Klaus Schadenfreude)
Newsgroups: alt.global-warming,alt.engineering.electrical,talk.politics.guns
Subject: Re: Over 1 million people without power, can't charge EV cars - paralysis.
Date: Sat, 24 Dec 2022 08:44:40 -0800
Distribution: Jolly Kone Parking Lots Everywhere
Organization: Rudella "The Senile, Incel Usenet Dwarf" Canoza School of Fisticuffs and Frantic Retreat
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 by: Klaus Schadenfreude - Sat, 24 Dec 2022 16:44 UTC

On Sat, 24 Dec 2022 16:02:19 -0000 (UTC), R Kym Horsell
<kym@kymhorsell.com> wrote:

>In alt.global-warming Hawaii Moon <emailed@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> Region Outages
>> New England 419,679
>> Mid-Atlantic 235,505
>> South East 74,503
>> South 34,683
>> Pacific 25,827
>> Great Lakes 18,811
>> Territories 4,169
>> MidWest 1,250
>> Mountain 133
>>
>> https://poweroutage.us/area/regions
>>
>> Looks like the Biden New England liberal assholes can't supply
>> electricity.
>
>419000 "outages"? Doesn't seem to jive with the data at
>https://www.oe.netl.doe.gov/
>shows there have not been 5000 "outages" altogether in the past 20y.
>
>You seem to have latched onto the populations of the different areas
>and have "discovered" more people live in New England than the Great Lakes.
>
>Wow. Novel material!

NOTE: If there is no electricity, they can't pump gas either, so......

Re: Over 1 million people without power, can't charge EV cars - paralysis.

<to7dp9$3psdf$1@news.mixmin.net>

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From: sol...@ground.com (Solos)
Newsgroups: alt.global-warming,alt.engineering.electrical,talk.politics.guns
Subject: Re: Over 1 million people without power, can't charge EV cars - paralysis.
Date: Sat, 24 Dec 2022 17:44:11 -0000 (UTC)
Organization: Mixmin
Message-ID: <to7dp9$3psdf$1@news.mixmin.net>
References: <to6ijg$3lk89$1@news.mixmin.net> <to77qa$to5$1@gioia.aioe.org> <f2beqht1m4nfq4j2q4vdefqjqgfhut3d4c@4ax.com>
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 by: Solos - Sat, 24 Dec 2022 17:44 UTC

Klaus Schadenfreude <klaus.schadenfreude.l�schen.@gmail.com> wrote in
news:f2beqht1m4nfq4j2q4vdefqjqgfhut3d4c@4ax.com:

> On Sat, 24 Dec 2022 16:02:19 -0000 (UTC), R Kym Horsell
> <kym@kymhorsell.com> wrote:
>
>>In alt.global-warming Hawaii Moon <emailed@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>> Region Outages
>>> New England 419,679
>>> Mid-Atlantic 235,505
>>> South East 74,503
>>> South 34,683
>>> Pacific 25,827
>>> Great Lakes 18,811
>>> Territories 4,169
>>> MidWest 1,250
>>> Mountain 133
>>>
>>> https://poweroutage.us/area/regions
>>>
>>> Looks like the Biden New England liberal assholes can't supply
>>> electricity.
>>
>>419000 "outages"? Doesn't seem to jive with the data at
>>https://www.oe.netl.doe.gov/
>>shows there have not been 5000 "outages" altogether in the past 20y.
>>
>>You seem to have latched onto the populations of the different areas
>>and have "discovered" more people live in New England than the Great
>>Lakes.
>>
>>Wow. Novel material!
>
> NOTE: If there is no electricity, they can't pump gas either, so......

The smart kids paid attention to the weather forecast, went to the gas
station and filled up before the snow and cold.

NASA is not an objective weather source. They are desperately sucking
government peeder for funding and will say anything they are told to.

Re: Over 1 million people without power, can't charge EV cars - paralysis.

<to7iar$1h7q$1@gioia.aioe.org>

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From: kym...@kymhorsell.com (R Kym Horsell)
Newsgroups: alt.global-warming,alt.engineering.electrical,talk.politics.guns
Subject: Re: Over 1 million people without power, can't charge EV cars - paralysis.
Date: Sat, 24 Dec 2022 19:01:48 -0000 (UTC)
Organization: kymhorsell.com
Message-ID: <to7iar$1h7q$1@gioia.aioe.org>
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 by: R Kym Horsell - Sat, 24 Dec 2022 19:01 UTC

In alt.global-warming Solos <solos@ground.com> wrote:
> Klaus Schadenfreude <klaus.schadenfreude.l?schen.@gmail.com> wrote in
> news:f2beqht1m4nfq4j2q4vdefqjqgfhut3d4c@4ax.com:
>
>> On Sat, 24 Dec 2022 16:02:19 -0000 (UTC), R Kym Horsell
>> <kym@kymhorsell.com> wrote:
>>
>>>In alt.global-warming Hawaii Moon <emailed@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>> Region Outages
>>>> New England 419,679
>>>> Mid-Atlantic 235,505
>>>> South East 74,503
>>>> South 34,683
>>>> Pacific 25,827
>>>> Great Lakes 18,811
>>>> Territories 4,169
>>>> MidWest 1,250
>>>> Mountain 133
>>>> https://poweroutage.us/area/regions
>>>> Looks like the Biden New England liberal assholes can't supply
>>>> electricity.
>>>419000 "outages"? Doesn't seem to jive with the data at
>>>https://www.oe.netl.doe.gov/
>>>shows there have not been 5000 "outages" altogether in the past 20y.
>>>You seem to have latched onto the populations of the different areas
>>>and have "discovered" more people live in New England than the Great
>>>Lakes.
>>>Wow. Novel material!
>> NOTE: If there is no electricity, they can't pump gas either, so......
> The smart kids paid attention to the weather forecast, went to the gas
> station and filled up before the snow and cold.
> NASA is not an objective weather source.
....

Which is why the smart kids, farmers and suchlike, look the NOAA --
part of the Dept of Comerce -- for weather services.

--
Politics versus power outages (per state capita):

States like: %Biden20 Outages since 2000
/mn cap
Wyoming 26.6 10.237
West.Virginia 29.7 14.6411
North.Dakota 31.8 6.60566
Oklahoma 32.7 6.08928
Arkansas 34.8 13.7667
South.Dakota 36.1333 6.49518
Utah 37.55 7.8251
Nebraska 39.55 6.9425
Montana 41.08 6.06979
South.Carolina 43.1 3.33226
Ohio 45.05 4.97748
Texas 46.5 3.93169
North.Carolina 48.25 4.74165
Wisconsin 49.7 3.93617
Michigan 50.6 9.77569
New.Hampshire 52.7333 10.2453
Virginia 54.2 8.9686
Colorado 55.4 2.56571
Washington 57.275 6.40447
Rhode.Island 59.1 20.9237
New.York 60.9 3.43507
Hawaii 63.6 3.67065
Vermont 65.7 10.5531
District.of.Columbia 92.1 14.8759

(Outages from "standardized grid disruptions" report from evergy.gov).

Rank test: calculated Spearman corr = -0.078261
critical value = 0.343 2-sided at 5%; accept H0:not_connected

I.e. "not connected"

Re: Over 1 million people without power, can't charge EV cars - paralysis.

<56keqhd3rhb0llf0fkbumbtr6h6r1jn615@4ax.com>

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From: klaus.sc...@gmail.com (Klaus Schadenfreude)
Newsgroups: alt.global-warming,alt.engineering.electrical,talk.politics.guns
Subject: Re: Over 1 million people without power, can't charge EV cars - paralysis.
Date: Sat, 24 Dec 2022 11:21:14 -0800
Distribution: Jolly Kone Parking Lots Everywhere
Organization: Rudella "The Senile, Incel Usenet Dwarf" Canoza School of Fisticuffs and Frantic Retreat
Message-ID: <56keqhd3rhb0llf0fkbumbtr6h6r1jn615@4ax.com>
References: <to6ijg$3lk89$1@news.mixmin.net> <to77qa$to5$1@gioia.aioe.org> <f2beqht1m4nfq4j2q4vdefqjqgfhut3d4c@4ax.com> <to7dp9$3psdf$1@news.mixmin.net>
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 by: Klaus Schadenfreude - Sat, 24 Dec 2022 19:21 UTC

On Sat, 24 Dec 2022 17:44:11 -0000 (UTC), Solos <solos@ground.com>
wrote:

>Klaus Schadenfreude <klaus.schadenfreude.löschen.@gmail.com> wrote in
>news:f2beqht1m4nfq4j2q4vdefqjqgfhut3d4c@4ax.com:
>
>> On Sat, 24 Dec 2022 16:02:19 -0000 (UTC), R Kym Horsell
>> <kym@kymhorsell.com> wrote:
>>
>>>In alt.global-warming Hawaii Moon <emailed@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>> Region Outages
>>>> New England 419,679
>>>> Mid-Atlantic 235,505
>>>> South East 74,503
>>>> South 34,683
>>>> Pacific 25,827
>>>> Great Lakes 18,811
>>>> Territories 4,169
>>>> MidWest 1,250
>>>> Mountain 133
>>>>
>>>> https://poweroutage.us/area/regions
>>>>
>>>> Looks like the Biden New England liberal assholes can't supply
>>>> electricity.
>>>
>>>419000 "outages"? Doesn't seem to jive with the data at
>>>https://www.oe.netl.doe.gov/
>>>shows there have not been 5000 "outages" altogether in the past 20y.
>>>
>>>You seem to have latched onto the populations of the different areas
>>>and have "discovered" more people live in New England than the Great
>>>Lakes.
>>>
>>>Wow. Novel material!
>>
>> NOTE: If there is no electricity, they can't pump gas either, so......
>
>The smart kids paid attention to the weather forecast, went to the gas
>station and filled up before the snow and cold.

So did the Smart EV owners, presumably.

>NASA is not an objective weather source. They are desperately sucking
>government peeder for funding and will say anything they are told to.

Right. It's a conspiracy with the NOAA to keep people indoor while
they spray more chemtrails. [yawn]

Re: Over 1 million people without power, can't charge EV cars - paralysis.

<8akeqhhn1s72rupqheo1jgc627ebiugau5@4ax.com>

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From: klaus.sc...@gmail.com (Klaus Schadenfreude)
Newsgroups: alt.global-warming,alt.engineering.electrical,talk.politics.guns
Subject: Re: Over 1 million people without power, can't charge EV cars - paralysis.
Date: Sat, 24 Dec 2022 11:22:37 -0800
Distribution: Jolly Kone Parking Lots Everywhere
Organization: Rudella "The Senile, Incel Usenet Dwarf" Canoza School of Fisticuffs and Frantic Retreat
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 by: Klaus Schadenfreude - Sat, 24 Dec 2022 19:22 UTC

On Sat, 24 Dec 2022 19:01:48 -0000 (UTC), R Kym Horsell
<kym@kymhorsell.com> wrote:

>In alt.global-warming Solos <solos@ground.com> wrote:
>> Klaus Schadenfreude <klaus.schadenfreude.l?schen.@gmail.com> wrote in
>> news:f2beqht1m4nfq4j2q4vdefqjqgfhut3d4c@4ax.com:
>>
>>> On Sat, 24 Dec 2022 16:02:19 -0000 (UTC), R Kym Horsell
>>> <kym@kymhorsell.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>>In alt.global-warming Hawaii Moon <emailed@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>>> Region Outages
>>>>> New England 419,679
>>>>> Mid-Atlantic 235,505
>>>>> South East 74,503
>>>>> South 34,683
>>>>> Pacific 25,827
>>>>> Great Lakes 18,811
>>>>> Territories 4,169
>>>>> MidWest 1,250
>>>>> Mountain 133
>>>>> https://poweroutage.us/area/regions
>>>>> Looks like the Biden New England liberal assholes can't supply
>>>>> electricity.
>>>>419000 "outages"? Doesn't seem to jive with the data at
>>>>https://www.oe.netl.doe.gov/
>>>>shows there have not been 5000 "outages" altogether in the past 20y.
>>>>You seem to have latched onto the populations of the different areas
>>>>and have "discovered" more people live in New England than the Great
>>>>Lakes.
>>>>Wow. Novel material!
>>> NOTE: If there is no electricity, they can't pump gas either, so......
>> The smart kids paid attention to the weather forecast, went to the gas
>> station and filled up before the snow and cold.
>> NASA is not an objective weather source.
>...
>
>Which is why the smart kids, farmers and suchlike, look the NOAA --
>part of the Dept of Comerce -- for weather services.

Is that why I get a "404" when I go to the NASA WEATHER web site?

Isn't the weather for space always the same? Cold.

LOL

Re: Over 1 million people without power, can't charge EV cars - paralysis.

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Subject: Re: Over 1 million people without power, can't charge EV cars - paralysis.
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 by: gfretw...@aol.com - Sun, 25 Dec 2022 03:58 UTC

On Sat, 24 Dec 2022 08:44:40 -0800, Klaus Schadenfreude
<klaus.schadenfreude.löschen.@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Sat, 24 Dec 2022 16:02:19 -0000 (UTC), R Kym Horsell
><kym@kymhorsell.com> wrote:
>
>>In alt.global-warming Hawaii Moon <emailed@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>> Region Outages
>>> New England 419,679
>>> Mid-Atlantic 235,505
>>> South East 74,503
>>> South 34,683
>>> Pacific 25,827
>>> Great Lakes 18,811
>>> Territories 4,169
>>> MidWest 1,250
>>> Mountain 133
>>>
>>> https://poweroutage.us/area/regions
>>>
>>> Looks like the Biden New England liberal assholes can't supply
>>> electricity.
>>
>>419000 "outages"? Doesn't seem to jive with the data at
>>https://www.oe.netl.doe.gov/
>>shows there have not been 5000 "outages" altogether in the past 20y.
>>
>>You seem to have latched onto the populations of the different areas
>>and have "discovered" more people live in New England than the Great Lakes.
>>
>>Wow. Novel material!
>
>NOTE: If there is no electricity, they can't pump gas either, so......

You see, that is where "backward ass Florida" is way ahead of most
states. Stations on major routes are required to have generators.

Re: Over 1 million people without power, can't charge EV cars - paralysis.

<to9qii$2pgth$2@dont-email.me>

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From: me4g...@verizon.removeme.this2.nospam.net (Scout)
Newsgroups: alt.global-warming,alt.engineering.electrical,talk.politics.guns
Subject: Re: Over 1 million people without power, can't charge EV cars - paralysis.
Date: Sun, 25 Dec 2022 10:09:08 -0500
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 by: Scout - Sun, 25 Dec 2022 15:09 UTC

"Klaus Schadenfreude" <klaus.schadenfreude.löschen.@gmail.com> wrote in
message news:f2beqht1m4nfq4j2q4vdefqjqgfhut3d4c@4ax.com...
> On Sat, 24 Dec 2022 16:02:19 -0000 (UTC), R Kym Horsell
> <kym@kymhorsell.com> wrote:
>
>>In alt.global-warming Hawaii Moon <emailed@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>> Region Outages
>>> New England 419,679
>>> Mid-Atlantic 235,505
>>> South East 74,503
>>> South 34,683
>>> Pacific 25,827
>>> Great Lakes 18,811
>>> Territories 4,169
>>> MidWest 1,250
>>> Mountain 133
>>>
>>> https://poweroutage.us/area/regions
>>>
>>> Looks like the Biden New England liberal assholes can't supply
>>> electricity.
>>
>>419000 "outages"? Doesn't seem to jive with the data at
>>https://www.oe.netl.doe.gov/
>>shows there have not been 5000 "outages" altogether in the past 20y.
>>
>>You seem to have latched onto the populations of the different areas
>>and have "discovered" more people live in New England than the Great
>>Lakes.
>>
>>Wow. Novel material!
>
> NOTE: If there is no electricity, they can't pump gas either, so......

That's why gas cans were invented.. Oh, and it doesn't take a very big
generator to power a gas station.. Certainly no more than it would take to
charge a single EV.

Re: Over 1 million people without power, can't charge EV cars - paralysis.

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 by: bud-- - Thu, 29 Dec 2022 04:08 UTC

(Nice - you dropped the BS newsgroups)

Were you near dead center for Ian?
Evacuate?
Come out OK?

Hard to comprehend the destruction.

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Newsgroups: alt.engineering.electrical
Subject: Re: Over 1 million people without power, can't charge EV cars - paralysis.
Date: Thu, 29 Dec 2022 01:35:06 -0500
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 by: gfretw...@aol.com - Thu, 29 Dec 2022 06:35 UTC

On Wed, 28 Dec 2022 22:08:45 -0600, bud-- <null@void.com> wrote:

>(Nice - you dropped the BS newsgroups)
>
>Were you near dead center for Ian?
>Evacuate?
>Come out OK?
>
>Hard to comprehend the destruction.

Me? Yeah that fucker was 44" of salt water in my living room but we
got back to normal for Christmas.
There are still dump truck sized piles of rubble on my street and I am
the only one living in a preFIRM house at my end of the street. Most
are in a trailer in the driveway or moved out.

Most of the destruction was after the storm when people thought
everything that got wet needs to go. Many of them have now damaged
their houses to beyond what FEMA will let them build back and their
insurance won't build a new code house. My neighborhood is going to
change.

Re: Over 1 million people without power, can't charge EV cars - paralysis.

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 by: bud-- - Fri, 30 Dec 2022 03:20 UTC

On 12/29/2022 12:35 AM, gfretwell@aol.com wrote:
> On Wed, 28 Dec 2022 22:08:45 -0600, bud-- <null@void.com> wrote:
>
>> (Nice - you dropped the BS newsgroups)
>>
>> Were you near dead center for Ian?
>> Evacuate?
>> Come out OK?
>>
>> Hard to comprehend the destruction.
>
> Me? Yeah that fucker was 44" of salt water in my living room but we
> got back to normal for Christmas.
> There are still dump truck sized piles of rubble on my street and I am
> the only one living in a preFIRM house at my end of the street. Most
> are in a trailer in the driveway or moved out.
>
> Most of the destruction was after the storm when people thought
> everything that got wet needs to go. Many of them have now damaged
> their houses to beyond what FEMA will let them build back and their
> insurance won't build a new code house. My neighborhood is going to
> change.
>
Glad to know you are OK.
I am surprised you are "back to normal" this fast, but then you
understand construction.
I haven't seen news cover how things have been going.

Re: Over 1 million people without power, can't charge EV cars - paralysis.

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Subject: Re: Over 1 million people without power, can't charge EV cars - paralysis.
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 by: gfretw...@aol.com - Fri, 30 Dec 2022 03:45 UTC

On Thu, 29 Dec 2022 21:20:42 -0600, bud-- <null@void.com> wrote:

>On 12/29/2022 12:35 AM, gfretwell@aol.com wrote:
>> On Wed, 28 Dec 2022 22:08:45 -0600, bud-- <null@void.com> wrote:
>>
>>> (Nice - you dropped the BS newsgroups)
>>>
>>> Were you near dead center for Ian?
>>> Evacuate?
>>> Come out OK?
>>>
>>> Hard to comprehend the destruction.
>>
>> Me? Yeah that fucker was 44" of salt water in my living room but we
>> got back to normal for Christmas.
>> There are still dump truck sized piles of rubble on my street and I am
>> the only one living in a preFIRM house at my end of the street. Most
>> are in a trailer in the driveway or moved out.
>>
>> Most of the destruction was after the storm when people thought
>> everything that got wet needs to go. Many of them have now damaged
>> their houses to beyond what FEMA will let them build back and their
>> insurance won't build a new code house. My neighborhood is going to
>> change.
>>
>Glad to know you are OK.
>I am surprised you are "back to normal" this fast, but then you
>understand construction.
>I haven't seen news cover how things have been going.

For anyone with insurance, most are still screwing with FEMA and their
insurance company. The ones who are really screwed are the ones who
paid a couple thousand or more to gut their house, now they find out
they are tearing it down anyway. We have 2 torn down already and I
suspect we ain't seen nothin yet. We rode around in the cart today and
there are over a dozen that seem abandoned. I also saw several FSBOs
"as is". In most cases the lot is worth more without the house on it

Re: Over 1 million people without power, can't charge EV cars - paralysis.

<tpaedp$39ujg$1@dont-email.me>

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Newsgroups: alt.global-warming,alt.engineering.electrical,talk.politics.guns
Subject: Re: Over 1 million people without power, can't charge EV cars - paralysis.
Date: Fri, 6 Jan 2023 17:29:41 -0700
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 by: Buffalo - Sat, 7 Jan 2023 00:29 UTC

"Klaus Schadenfreude" wrote in message
news:f2beqht1m4nfq4j2q4vdefqjqgfhut3d4c@4ax.com...
>
>On Sat, 24 Dec 2022 16:02:19 -0000 (UTC), R Kym Horsell
><kym@kymhorsell.com> wrote:
>
>>In alt.global-warming Hawaii Moon <emailed@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>> Region Outages
>>> New England 419,679
>>> Mid-Atlantic 235,505
>>> South East 74,503
>>> South 34,683
>>> Pacific 25,827
>>> Great Lakes 18,811
>>> Territories 4,169
>>> MidWest 1,250
>>> Mountain 133
>>>
>>> https://poweroutage.us/area/regions
>>>
>>> Looks like the Biden New England liberal assholes can't supply
>>> electricity.
>>
>>419000 "outages"? Doesn't seem to jive with the data at
>>https://www.oe.netl.doe.gov/
>>shows there have not been 5000 "outages" altogether in the past 20y.
>>
>>You seem to have latched onto the populations of the different areas
>>and have "discovered" more people live in New England than the Great
>>Lakes.
>>
>>Wow. Novel material!
>
>NOTE: If there is no electricity, they can't pump gas either, so......
Are you sure?? hahahaha
C'mon, you actually think electric car haters, basically far right wing
'disciples', don't know that? :)
Probably not,because they are political puppets who thrive on FNC and
similar and can't think logically for themselves.
--
Buffalo

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