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tech / sci.engr.joining.welding / Re: Pushing my Luck

SubjectAuthor
* Pushing my LuckBob La Londe
+* Re: Pushing my LuckJim Wilkins
|`* Re: Pushing my LuckBob La Londe
| `* Re: Pushing my LuckJim Wilkins
|  `* Re: Pushing my LuckBob La Londe
|   +- Re: Pushing my LuckJim Wilkins
|   `* Re: Pushing my LuckJim Wilkins
|    `* Re: Pushing my LuckBob La Londe
|     `* Re: Pushing my LuckJim Wilkins
|      `* Re: Pushing my LuckBob La Londe
|       `- Re: Pushing my LuckJim Wilkins
`* Re: Pushing my LuckBob La Londe
 `* Re: Pushing my LuckBob La Londe
  `* Re: Pushing my LuckJim Wilkins
   `- Re: Pushing my LuckBob La Londe

1
Pushing my Luck

<su6oqn$ee3$1@gioia.aioe.org>

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From: non...@none.com99 (Bob La Londe)
Newsgroups: sci.engr.joining.welding
Subject: Pushing my Luck
Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2022 15:43:36 -0700
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 by: Bob La Londe - Fri, 11 Feb 2022 22:43 UTC

When I setup my shop I never figured it would be so full. It was just
supposed to be a warehouse for my contracting business. I never planned
on it being a machine shop or that I would actually learn to weld more
than some thin to medium gage mild steel.

The other day I needed to blow some steel screws out of some aluminum
boat ribs because they were rusted off and seized in place. I tried a
couple different toothed cutters before trying the plasma cutter.
Sadly I only ever put in one 50 amp outlet in the shop near the back
door. I recognized this as a problem some time back and bought a 50ft
50 amp cord. That allowed me to weld in about 75% of the shop. More
than enough I thought. Then this boat came in. No way to pull it
inside. A buddy of mine loaned me his 50 ft welding extension cord.
Between the two of them I could reach everywhere I needed to reach, and
blew out all those screws in short order. Its not pretty, but it worked
and it was fast.

I doubt I'll need to do that very often, but I ordered another 50ft
welding extension cord just in case. I'm sure I won't be able to use
the full power of my MIG welder on 100 ft of 8/3, but I was wondering
how far I could push it. The Paige online size wire calculator says I
should be able to draw 40 amps from the wall. I'm not sure what that
means in practical real world welding, but its got to be better than
dragging the 120V flux core out front to tack something up so I can
safely drag it in the back to weld it out.

Maybe someday I'll spring for 100ft of 6/3 for a welder extension cord
and be able to pull the full 50 amps from the wall outlet, but this will
have to do for now.

P.S. A spot weld cutter actually worked, but it took way to long. If I
just had a couple I'd have probably done it that way, but I had to
remove 44 screws from boat ribs.

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Re: Pushing my Luck

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From: muratla...@gmail.com (Jim Wilkins)
Newsgroups: sci.engr.joining.welding
Subject: Re: Pushing my Luck
Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2022 18:54:30 -0500
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 by: Jim Wilkins - Fri, 11 Feb 2022 23:54 UTC

"Bob La Londe" wrote in message news:su6oqn$ee3$1@gioia.aioe.org...

The other day I needed to blow some steel screws out of some aluminum
boat ribs because they were rusted off and seized in place. I tried a
couple different toothed cutters before trying the plasma cutter.

----------------------

I take it you left big smokin' holes rather than salvagable threads in the
aluminum.

On old cars and small engines I usually have to replace the rusted screw
with a new one.

Could be worse, I met a man who was rebuilding a Rolls-Royce Nene jet engine
with a large, closely spaced circle of small corroded screws in aluminum.

Re: Pushing my Luck

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From: non...@none.com99 (Bob La Londe)
Newsgroups: sci.engr.joining.welding
Subject: Re: Pushing my Luck
Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2022 17:32:33 -0700
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 by: Bob La Londe - Sat, 12 Feb 2022 00:32 UTC

On 2/11/2022 4:54 PM, Jim Wilkins wrote:
> "Bob La Londe"  wrote in message news:su6oqn$ee3$1@gioia.aioe.org...
>
> The other day I needed to blow some steel screws out of some aluminum
> boat ribs because they were rusted off and seized in place.  I tried a
> couple different toothed cutters before trying the plasma cutter.
>
> ----------------------
>
> I take it you left big smokin' holes rather than salvagable threads in
> the aluminum.
>
> On old cars and small engines I usually have to replace the rusted screw
> with a new one.
>
> Could be worse, I met a man who was rebuilding a Rolls-Royce Nene jet
> engine with a large, closely spaced circle of small corroded screws in
> aluminum.

Yep. I'll flap wheel it flat, and use rivets to reattach the sole when
I am ready. In the short term during fitup of everything I'll use
stainless steel screws. The screws will get pulled and replaced with
rivets when everything is right.

--
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Re: Pushing my Luck

<su8l6i$jfj$1@dont-email.me>

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From: muratla...@gmail.com (Jim Wilkins)
Newsgroups: sci.engr.joining.welding
Subject: Re: Pushing my Luck
Date: Sat, 12 Feb 2022 07:07:17 -0500
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 by: Jim Wilkins - Sat, 12 Feb 2022 12:07 UTC

"Bob La Londe" wrote in message news:su6v70$llq$1@gioia.aioe.org...

On 2/11/2022 4:54 PM, Jim Wilkins wrote:
> "Bob La Londe" wrote in message news:su6oqn$ee3$1@gioia.aioe.org...
>
> The other day I needed to blow some steel screws out of some aluminum
> boat ribs because they were rusted off and seized in place. I tried a
> couple different toothed cutters before trying the plasma cutter.
>
> ----------------------
>
> I take it you left big smokin' holes rather than salvagable threads in the
> aluminum.
>
> On old cars and small engines I usually have to replace the rusted screw
> with a new one.
>
> Could be worse, I met a man who was rebuilding a Rolls-Royce Nene jet
> engine with a large, closely spaced circle of small corroded screws in
> aluminum.

Yep. I'll flap wheel it flat, and use rivets to reattach the sole when
I am ready. In the short term during fitup of everything I'll use
stainless steel screws. The screws will get pulled and replaced with
rivets when everything is right.

-----------------------

In case you or others don't know, #5 screws have a diameter of 1/8" and are
good temporary assembly substitutes for 1/8" rivets if you don't have or the
space is too tight for Clecos. #10 screws work for 3/16" rivets.

Re: Pushing my Luck

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From: non...@none.com99 (Bob La Londe)
Newsgroups: sci.engr.joining.welding
Subject: Re: Pushing my Luck
Date: Sat, 12 Feb 2022 10:17:53 -0700
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 by: Bob La Londe - Sat, 12 Feb 2022 17:17 UTC

On 2/12/2022 5:07 AM, Jim Wilkins wrote:
> "Bob La Londe"  wrote in message news:su6v70$llq$1@gioia.aioe.org...
>
> On 2/11/2022 4:54 PM, Jim Wilkins wrote:
>> "Bob La Londe"  wrote in message news:su6oqn$ee3$1@gioia.aioe.org...
>>
>> The other day I needed to blow some steel screws out of some aluminum
>> boat ribs because they were rusted off and seized in place.  I tried a
>> couple different toothed cutters before trying the plasma cutter.
>>
>> ----------------------
>>
>> I take it you left big smokin' holes rather than salvagable threads in
>> the aluminum.
>>
>> On old cars and small engines I usually have to replace the rusted
>> screw with a new one.
>>
>> Could be worse, I met a man who was rebuilding a Rolls-Royce Nene jet
>> engine with a large, closely spaced circle of small corroded screws in
>> aluminum.
>
>
>
> Yep.  I'll flap wheel it flat, and use rivets to reattach the sole when
> I am ready.  In the short term during fitup of everything I'll use
> stainless steel screws.  The screws will get pulled and replaced with
> rivets when everything is right.
>
> -----------------------
>
> In case you or others don't know, #5 screws have a diameter of 1/8" and
> are good temporary assembly substitutes for 1/8" rivets if you don't
> have or the space is too tight for Clecos. #10 screws work for 3/16"
> rivets.
>

Talk about lucky. I have a couple boxes of #10 wide head (not sure if
they are called washer head or truss head) stainless sheet metal screws
and several bags of 3/16 closed end wide head pop rivets for the blind
holes. For accessible through hull stuff (other parts of the project) I
have 3/16 and 1/4 solid rivets. Just haven't decided what to use for a
sealant under the solid rivet heads yet.

I'm leaning towards DAP tub and tile clear. For machine enclosures and
in the past for outdoor surface mounted junction and equipment boxes it
has done a better job over time than all but the most expensive marine
sealants and is much easier to work with. Because it finishes clear
squeeze out is unnoticeable in most applications. If I do have a rivet
leak or two it will be in the older rivets I didn't remove anyway. Even
then it wouldn't be anything that would kick a bilge pump on more than
once in a day. Probably not even that often. The guy who gave (sold
cheap) me the boat used to camp out in it for days at a time. All the
new stuff is above the waterline anyway. Yes its a very off label
application. Its rated for indoor use, but I never had a problem with
it when used between surfaces.

I will need to weld a few things before I am done, but that can all wait
for now. I'll be able to return my buddy's cord long before then
because my own extra cord will be arriving this week. I thought about
making a 6x3 cord of my own, but that is some seriously expensive wire.
Paige wire calculator says I can run a full 50 amps over 100ft of 6x3.
Its just more than I want to spend. If I really need to do a lot of
heaver welding up front I'll just cover/abandon the outlet box in the
back and install one directly below the main sub panel for the shop.
That is much closer to the front of the building, but a 50ft cord would
still reach the back door with room to work. That would be much cheaper
than a 100ft 6x3 cord.

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Re: Pushing my Luck

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From: muratla...@gmail.com (Jim Wilkins)
Newsgroups: sci.engr.joining.welding
Subject: Re: Pushing my Luck
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 by: Jim Wilkins - Sat, 12 Feb 2022 23:56 UTC

"Bob La Londe" wrote in message news:su8q43$4j1$1@gioia.aioe.org...

....If I do have a rivet
leak or two it will be in the older rivets I didn't remove anyway. ...

------------------

Just hammer them tighter.

Re: Pushing my Luck

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From: muratla...@gmail.com (Jim Wilkins)
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Subject: Re: Pushing my Luck
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 by: Jim Wilkins - Sun, 13 Feb 2022 00:38 UTC

"Bob La Londe" wrote in message news:su8q43$4j1$1@gioia.aioe.org...

I'm leaning towards DAP tub and tile clear. For machine enclosures and
in the past for outdoor surface mounted junction and equipment boxes it
has done a better job over time than all but the most expensive marine
sealants and is much easier to work with.
------------------------

Thanks for the advice. I've generally had poor luck with sealants used
outdoors in sunlight, except for a Silicone (brand??) in the joint between
aluminum siding and aluminum window trim covering which has remained intact
for ~15 years.

I used those washer/truss head screws to fasten down corrugated panels on a
roof extension because the flanged hex heads meant for them snag the snow
rake. Sealing washers punched from red rubber sheet from HD deteriorated at
the edges from sunlight. Inner tube rubber is worse.

Re: Pushing my Luck

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From: non...@none.com99 (Bob La Londe)
Newsgroups: sci.engr.joining.welding
Subject: Re: Pushing my Luck
Date: Sun, 13 Feb 2022 08:50:00 -0700
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 by: Bob La Londe - Sun, 13 Feb 2022 15:50 UTC

On 2/12/2022 5:38 PM, Jim Wilkins wrote:
> "Bob La Londe"  wrote in message news:su8q43$4j1$1@gioia.aioe.org...
>
> I'm leaning towards DAP tub and tile clear.  For machine enclosures and
> in the past for outdoor surface mounted junction and equipment boxes it
> has done a better job over time than all but the most expensive marine
> sealants and is much easier to work with.
> ------------------------
>
> Thanks for the advice. I've generally had poor luck with sealants used
> outdoors in sunlight, except for a Silicone (brand??) in the joint
> between aluminum siding and aluminum window trim covering which has
> remained intact for ~15 years.
>
> I used those washer/truss head screws to fasten down corrugated panels
> on a roof extension because the flanged hex heads meant for them snag
> the snow rake. Sealing washers punched from red rubber sheet from HD
> deteriorated at the edges from sunlight. Inner tube rubber is worse.
>

Not sure what you might use it for, but it comes out of the tube
"thinner" than most other sealants I have used. Makes sense since it
comes in a squeeze tube.

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Re: Pushing my Luck

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From: muratla...@gmail.com (Jim Wilkins)
Newsgroups: sci.engr.joining.welding
Subject: Re: Pushing my Luck
Date: Sun, 13 Feb 2022 16:05:22 -0500
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 by: Jim Wilkins - Sun, 13 Feb 2022 21:05 UTC

"Bob La Londe" wrote in message news:sub9b9$g2a$1@gioia.aioe.org...

On 2/12/2022 5:38 PM, Jim Wilkins wrote:
> "Bob La Londe" wrote in message news:su8q43$4j1$1@gioia.aioe.org...
>
> I'm leaning towards DAP tub and tile clear. ...

------------------------------

Not sure what you might use it for, but it comes out of the tube
"thinner" than most other sealants I have used. Makes sense since it
comes in a squeeze tube.

----------------------------

Outdoor lights and cameras, TV antenna and solar panel wiring, sealing car
rust repairs, ...

Re: Pushing my Luck

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From: non...@none.com99 (Bob La Londe)
Newsgroups: sci.engr.joining.welding
Subject: Re: Pushing my Luck
Date: Sun, 13 Feb 2022 16:02:46 -0700
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 by: Bob La Londe - Sun, 13 Feb 2022 23:02 UTC

On 2/13/2022 2:05 PM, Jim Wilkins wrote:
> "Bob La Londe"  wrote in message news:sub9b9$g2a$1@gioia.aioe.org...
>
> On 2/12/2022 5:38 PM, Jim Wilkins wrote:
>> "Bob La Londe"  wrote in message news:su8q43$4j1$1@gioia.aioe.org...
>>
>> I'm leaning towards DAP tub and tile clear.  ...
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Not sure what you might use it for, but it comes out of the tube
> "thinner" than most other sealants I have used. Makes sense since it
> comes in a squeeze tube.
>
> ----------------------------
>
> Outdoor lights and cameras, TV antenna and solar panel wiring, sealing
> car rust repairs, ...
>

Should be right up that alley. I don't know how well it weathers
extreme cold. We usually only get a couple nights a year that drop
below freezing just before sunrise. Some years we don't get any.

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Re: Pushing my Luck

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From: muratla...@gmail.com (Jim Wilkins)
Newsgroups: sci.engr.joining.welding
Subject: Re: Pushing my Luck
Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2022 08:01:14 -0500
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 by: Jim Wilkins - Mon, 14 Feb 2022 13:01 UTC

"Bob La Londe" wrote in message news:suc2ml$abl$1@gioia.aioe.org...

Should be right up that alley. I don't know how well it weathers
extreme cold. We usually only get a couple nights a year that drop
below freezing just before sunrise. Some years we don't get any.

------------------

Thanks, that's a good thing to test. Tonight's low is predicted to be 0F, or
I could put a sample in the freezer to see if it becomes brittle.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glass_transition

The manual for my Alpicool freezer claims it can be set as low as -40 C/F.
When vaccines were near release I mentioned the 20 liter model to several
medical professionals as a possible vaccine freezer that operates from a 12V
vehicle battery and carries as easily as a picnic cooler. My larger 60 liter
one transports like wheeled luggage. I set it up to automatically use solar,
else grid, else battery power and it's costing less than $1.50 per month to
run.

Re: Pushing my Luck

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From: non...@none.com99 (Bob La Londe)
Newsgroups: sci.engr.joining.welding
Subject: Re: Pushing my Luck
Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2022 12:11:42 -0700
Organization: Aioe.org NNTP Server
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 by: Bob La Londe - Thu, 17 Feb 2022 19:11 UTC

On 2/11/2022 3:43 PM, Bob La Londe wrote:
> When I setup my shop I never figured it would be so full.  It was just
> supposed to be a warehouse for my contracting business.  I never planned
> on it being a machine shop or that I would actually learn to weld more
> than some thin to medium gage mild steel.
>
> The other day I needed to blow some steel screws out of some aluminum
> boat ribs because they were rusted off and seized in place.  I tried a
> couple different toothed cutters before trying the plasma cutter. Sadly
> I only ever put in one 50 amp outlet in the shop near the back door.  I
> recognized this as a problem some time back and bought a 50ft 50 amp
> cord.  That allowed me to weld in about 75% of the shop.  More than
> enough I thought.  Then this boat came in.  No way to pull it inside.  A
> buddy of mine loaned me his 50 ft welding extension cord. Between the
> two of them I could reach everywhere I needed to reach, and blew out all
> those screws in short order.  Its not pretty, but it worked and it was
> fast.
>
> I doubt I'll need to do that very often, but I ordered another 50ft
> welding extension cord just in case.  I'm sure I won't be able to use
> the full power of my MIG welder on 100 ft of 8/3, but I was wondering
> how far I could push it.  The Paige online size wire calculator says I
> should be able to draw 40 amps from the wall.  I'm not sure what that
> means in practical real world welding, but its got to be better than
> dragging the 120V flux core out front to tack something up so I can
> safely drag it in the back to weld it out.
>
> Maybe someday I'll spring for 100ft of 6/3 for a welder extension cord
> and be able to pull the full 50 amps from the wall outlet, but this will
> have to do for now.
>
> P.S.  A spot weld cutter actually worked, but it took way to long.  If I
> just had a couple I'd have probably done it that way, but I had to
> remove 44 screws from boat ribs.
>

Well, I now have 100 feet of 8/3 welder extension cord. I can now reach
well out past the 20' concrete apron on the front of my shop. I may no
longer have a need for the little 120V ProCore MIG. Gonna keep it
anyway. I would have liked 6/3, but its was out of my budget.

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Re: Pushing my Luck

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From: non...@none.com99 (Bob La Londe)
Newsgroups: sci.engr.joining.welding
Subject: Re: Pushing my Luck
Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2022 12:12:25 -0700
Organization: Aioe.org NNTP Server
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 by: Bob La Londe - Thu, 17 Feb 2022 19:12 UTC

On 2/17/2022 12:11 PM, Bob La Londe wrote:
> On 2/11/2022 3:43 PM, Bob La Londe wrote:
>> When I setup my shop I never figured it would be so full.  It was just
>> supposed to be a warehouse for my contracting business.  I never
>> planned on it being a machine shop or that I would actually learn to
>> weld more than some thin to medium gage mild steel.
>>
>> The other day I needed to blow some steel screws out of some aluminum
>> boat ribs because they were rusted off and seized in place.  I tried a
>> couple different toothed cutters before trying the plasma cutter.
>> Sadly I only ever put in one 50 amp outlet in the shop near the back
>> door.  I recognized this as a problem some time back and bought a 50ft
>> 50 amp cord.  That allowed me to weld in about 75% of the shop.  More
>> than enough I thought.  Then this boat came in.  No way to pull it
>> inside.  A buddy of mine loaned me his 50 ft welding extension cord.
>> Between the two of them I could reach everywhere I needed to reach,
>> and blew out all those screws in short order.  Its not pretty, but it
>> worked and it was fast.
>>
>> I doubt I'll need to do that very often, but I ordered another 50ft
>> welding extension cord just in case.  I'm sure I won't be able to use
>> the full power of my MIG welder on 100 ft of 8/3, but I was wondering
>> how far I could push it.  The Paige online size wire calculator says I
>> should be able to draw 40 amps from the wall.  I'm not sure what that
>> means in practical real world welding, but its got to be better than
>> dragging the 120V flux core out front to tack something up so I can
>> safely drag it in the back to weld it out.
>>
>> Maybe someday I'll spring for 100ft of 6/3 for a welder extension cord
>> and be able to pull the full 50 amps from the wall outlet, but this
>> will have to do for now.
>>
>> P.S.  A spot weld cutter actually worked, but it took way to long.  If
>> I just had a couple I'd have probably done it that way, but I had to
>> remove 44 screws from boat ribs.
>>
>
>
> Well, I now have 100 feet of 8/3 welder extension cord.  I can now reach
> well out past the 20' concrete apron on the front of my shop.  I may no
> longer have a need for the little 120V ProCore MIG.  Gonna keep it
> anyway.   I would have liked 6/3, but its was out of my budget.
>
>

Of course now I need to cleanup the shop so I can actually roll the
welding carts out front. LOL.

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Re: Pushing my Luck

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From: muratla...@gmail.com (Jim Wilkins)
Newsgroups: sci.engr.joining.welding
Subject: Re: Pushing my Luck
Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2022 08:12:53 -0500
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 by: Jim Wilkins - Tue, 22 Feb 2022 13:12 UTC

"Bob La Londe" wrote in message news:sum6mp$etf$2@gioia.aioe.org...

Of course now I need to cleanup the shop so I can actually roll the
welding carts out front. LOL.

---------------

Bulldozer blade on the front?

One of the specs GM required for custom factory equipment was that it be
forklift-proofed, meaning that internal wiring was in grounded metal conduit
so the operator wouldn't get a shock if they drove the forks into it. Rather
than bend EMT to fit tight spots we used a lot of Sealtite, which also met
the hose down spec. I've seen less well waterproofed wiring on a submarine.

Re: Pushing my Luck

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From: non...@none.com99 (Bob La Londe)
Newsgroups: sci.engr.joining.welding
Subject: Re: Pushing my Luck
Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2022 14:21:29 -0700
Organization: Aioe.org NNTP Server
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 by: Bob La Londe - Tue, 22 Feb 2022 21:21 UTC

On 2/22/2022 6:12 AM, Jim Wilkins wrote:
> "Bob La Londe"  wrote in message news:sum6mp$etf$2@gioia.aioe.org...
>
> Of course now I need to cleanup the shop so I can actually roll the
> welding carts out front.  LOL.
>
> ---------------
>
> Bulldozer blade on the front?
>
> One of the specs GM required for custom factory equipment was that it be
> forklift-proofed, meaning that internal wiring was in grounded metal
> conduit so the operator wouldn't get a shock if they drove the forks
> into it. Rather than bend EMT to fit tight spots we used a lot of
> Sealtite, which also met the hose down spec. I've seen less well
> waterproofed wiring on a submarine.

Honestly, probably yes. Drive the tractor through with the front loader
down.

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