Janet wrote:

>> It looks as if 'refuse collector' is the official term, while we plebs
>> say 'dustman' and 'bin man'.
>>
>
> Is it the last career that employs only men?

https://www.information.dk/indland/2021/10/natten-samler-33-aarige-signe-soerensen-danskernes-skrald-ligeglad-fordommene

The article gives her title as "renovationschauffør" (chauffør =
driver). I still call them "skraldemand". "Skralde" is an instrument:

https://temp.lundhansen.dk/skralde.png

The garbage workers used to signal with a "skralde" on their rounds, and
the result was that the word "skrald" got to mean "garbage".

--
Bertel, Denmark

Peter Moylan wrote:

> On 23/03/24 22:41, Janet wrote:
> > In article <utlubn$3g3i7$1@dont-email.me>, vpaereru-
> > unmonitored@yahoo.com.invalid says...
>
> > > It looks as if 'refuse collector' is the official term,
> > > while we plebs say 'dustman' and 'bin man'.
> >
> > Is it the last career that employs only men?
>
> I can only say that I've never seen a female dustperson.

Of course not. The song wouldn't work then would it?

My old Mum's a dustwoman
She wears a dustwoman's hat
She wears cor blimey trousers
And she lives in a council flat ...

Just doesn't have the same ring to it!

In article <MPG.4068d03fcb6c757b989c17@news.individual.net>,
Janet <nobody@home.com> wrote:
> In article <utlubn$3g3i7$1@dont-email.me>, vpaereru-
> unmonitored@yahoo.com.invalid says...
> > It looks as if 'refuse collector' is the official term, while we plebs
> > say 'dustman' and 'bin man'.
> >

> Is it the last career that employs only men?

> Janet

In the 1950s, Edinburgh used to have a separate waste Paper collection,
ISTR that women were used to collect the sacks.

--
from KT24 in Surrey, England - sent from my RISC OS 4té²
"I'd rather die of exhaustion than die of boredom" Thomas Carlyle

Le 23/03/2024 à 11:41, Janet a écrit :
> Hibou says...
>>
>> It looks as if 'refuse collector' is the official term, while we plebs
>> say 'dustman' and 'bin man'.
>
> Is it the last career that employs only men?

I've never seen a woman on the dust. It seems few want to climb to the
top of the pile.

As to male-only careers, sperm donation comes to mind, but it's rarely a
full-time occupation.

Hibou <vpaereru-unmonitored@yahoo.com.invalid> wrote or quoted:
>I've never seen a woman on the dust. It seems few want to climb to the
>top of the pile.

This is the theme of many a "meme", in which it is claimed that
women may want to work, but that the dirty work can be done by men,
so that women allegedly have less work-related injuries and deaths.

Here's a translation of a letter to the editor of a Berlin newspaper:

|Why not "dream job dustwoman"? Until 1848, waste disposal
|in Berlin was firmly in the hands of women. The so-called
|"Emmerweiber" dragged the buckets of rubbish to the Spree at night.
|This was forbidden during the day because of the stench.
|The "Emmerweiber" were mostly single women with children.
|This is revealed in a letter of protest from 1848, when the
|Berlin magistrate transferred waste disposal to an English
|company. From then on, only men worked in this industry.
- translation of a letter to the editor of a Berlin newspaper.

On 22/03/2024 14:01, HVS wrote:

>
> I quite like knowing such plurals, but never mind dustmen -- I wouldn't
> say "fora" anywhere in public. Sometimes, knowing something is fine,
> while using it is tooth-grindingly pretentious.

I like 'tooth-grindingly'. I will keep it as backup to my favourite
'toe-curlingly"

>
> Some years ago I encountered a choirmaster who addressed the female
> choristors as "alti" and "soprani", which still strikes me as one of
> the silliest examples of this I've come across. It's like hearing
> someone in Starbucks and asking "two cappuccini".
>

If, on the other hand, you were in a Starbucks in Rome, and the counter
person shouted "due cappuccini, Mario!" would your teeth still grind?

ram@zedat.fu-berlin.de (Stefan Ram) schrieb oder zitierte:
>|"Emmerweiber" dragged the buckets of rubbish to the Spree at night.

These were allegedly freelance women who emptied buckets of
faeces into the river "Spree" at night, although even then
the dumping of faeces into that river was not permitted.

"Emmerweiber" = "bucket women".

On 23/03/2024 00:34, Peter Moylan wrote:
> On 23/03/24 00:01, HVS wrote:
>
>> Some years ago I encountered a choirmaster who addressed the female
>> choristors as "alti" and "soprani", which still strikes me as one of
>> the silliest examples of this I've come across. It's like hearing
>> someone in Starbucks and asking "two cappuccini".
>
> Somewhat unrelated: two of the women in our choir sometimes sing the
> soprano part, and sometimes the alto. Our conductor calls them bisectional.
>

It could be worse. He could call them trans-sectional. That would ruffle
some PC feathers.

On 23/03/2024 00:32, Peter Moylan wrote:
> On 23/03/24 03:40, lar3ryca wrote:
>
>> Flavius Maximus is in Cicero's bar. Cicero asks him, "What're ya havin'?"
>>
>> "Uh gimme a martinus."
>> "You mean a martini."
>> "If I want ttwo, I'll ask for them."
>
> You've got a good ear.
>

If both your ears ring in the morning, do you have tinnitus or tinniti ?

Le 23/03/2024 à 14:27, Stefan Ram a écrit :
> ram@zedat.fu-berlin.de (Stefan Ram) schrieb oder zitierte:
>>
>> |"Emmerweiber" dragged the buckets of rubbish to the Spree at night.
>
> These were allegedly freelance women who emptied buckets of
> faeces into the river "Spree" at night, although even then
> the dumping of faeces into that river was not permitted.
>
> "Emmerweiber" = "bucket women".

Well, there's a career that's gone down the drain!

Jerry Friedman:
>>> I suppose that's like AmFFE (American Fast Food English) "a fry" for
>>> a serving of French fries.

Mark Brader:
>> I guess this one is Jerry's domain, but to me "a fry" only means one
>> of the pieces of fried potato that make up that serving.

"Sam":
> But if you're in the business of delivering food to customers, and the
> smallest unit you handle is 'one serving', I think 'a fry' might be
> acceptable.

I'd expect that to be "a fries" (and 2 servings would be "2 fries",
in contrast to the meaning I described).

> P.S. In the real world, they're chips, not fries.

See below.
--
Mark Brader | "One reason that life is complex is that it has
Toronto | a real part and an imaginary part."
msb@vex.net | --Andrew Koenig

My text in this article is in the public domain.

Stefan Ram <ram@zedat.fu-berlin.de> wrote:

> Hibou <vpaereru-unmonitored@yahoo.com.invalid> wrote or quoted:
> >I've never seen a woman on the dust. It seems few want to climb to the
> >top of the pile.
>
> This is the theme of many a "meme", in which it is claimed that
> women may want to work, but that the dirty work can be done by men,
> so that women allegedly have less work-related injuries and deaths.

[...]

As "work-related injuries and deaths" are countable,
should not 'less' instead be 'fewer'?

--
^Ï^. Sn!pe, PA, FIBS - Professional Crastinator

My pet rock Gordon has full confidence in our political masters.

Charles Hope:
> In the 1950s, Edinburgh used to have a separate waste Paper collection,

Ahead of their time! Here in Toronto we didn't get that until
"gray box" collection was started in 1996.

> ISTR that women were used to collect the sacks.

What exactly is a "sack" in this context? Size and material, please.
--
Mark Brader, Toronto (require 'msb)
msb@vex.net -- Lars Lindberg

My text in this article is in the public domain.

snipeco.2@gmail.com (Sn!pe) wrote or quoted:
>Stefan Ram <ram@zedat.fu-berlin.de> wrote:
>>so that women allegedly have less work-related injuries and deaths.
>As "work-related injuries and deaths" are countable,
>should not 'less' instead be 'fewer'?

Ah, thanks for the tip!

In article <BBucnePJnpdib2P4nZ2dnZfqn_SdnZ2d@giganews.com>,
Mark Brader <msb@vex.net> wrote:
> Charles Hope:
> > In the 1950s, Edinburgh used to have a separate waste Paper collection,

> Ahead of their time! Here in Toronto we didn't get that until
> "gray box" collection was started in 1996.

> > ISTR that women were used to collect the sacks.

> What exactly is a "sack" in this context? Size and material, please.

Canvas - and to me as a child - quite large

--
from KT24 in Surrey, England - sent from my RISC OS 4té²
"I'd rather die of exhaustion than die of boredom" Thomas Carlyle

On 2024-03-23 15:15:11 +0000, Sn!pe said:

> Stefan Ram <ram@zedat.fu-berlin.de> wrote:
>
>> Hibou <vpaereru-unmonitored@yahoo.com.invalid> wrote or quoted:
>>> I've never seen a woman on the dust. It seems few want to climb to the
>>> top of the pile.
>>
>> This is the theme of many a "meme", in which it is claimed that
>> women may want to work, but that the dirty work can be done by men,
>> so that women allegedly have less work-related injuries and deaths.
>
> [...]
>
> As "work-related injuries and deaths" are countable,
> should not 'less' instead be 'fewer'?

Of course, but the distinction is dying.

--
Athel -- French and British, living in Marseilles for 37 years; mainly
in England until 1987.

"Snipe":
> > As "work-related injuries and deaths" are countable,
> > should not 'less' instead be 'fewer'?
Athel Cornish-Bowden:
> Of course,

No, since they're countable either one is correct.

> but the distinction is dying.

No, only the claim that "less" can be wrong when "fewer" is correct.
--
Mark Brader "Never re-invent the wheel unnecessarily;
Toronto yours may have corners."
msb@vex.net -- Henry Spencer

Charles Hope:
>>> In the 1950s, Edinburgh used to have a separate waste Paper collection,
>>> ISTR that women were used to collect the sacks.

Mark Brader:
>> What exactly is a "sack" in this context? Size and material, please.
Charles Hope:
> Canvas - and to me as a child - quite large

Interesting. I'd also call that a sack. Do you know if the city supplied
them for this purpose, or what?
--
Mark Brader "You have the right to remain silent. Anything you
Toronto do say can and will be misquoted and used against
msb@vex.net you in a future post." -- Tanja Cooper, misquoted

On 23-Mar-24 12:56, Blueshirt wrote:
> Peter Moylan wrote:
>
>> On 23/03/24 22:41, Janet wrote:
>>> In article <utlubn$3g3i7$1@dont-email.me>, vpaereru-
>>> unmonitored@yahoo.com.invalid says...
>>
>>>> It looks as if 'refuse collector' is the official term,
>>>> while we plebs say 'dustman' and 'bin man'.
>>>
>>> Is it the last career that employs only men?
>>
>> I can only say that I've never seen a female dustperson.
>
> Of course not. The song wouldn't work then would it?
>
> My old Mum's a dustwoman
> She wears a dustwoman's hat
> She wears cor blimey trousers
> And she lives in a council flat ...
>
> Just doesn't have the same ring to it!

If your Mum didn't get a ring, does that make you...

Sorry. As you were.

--
Sam Plusnet

On 23-Mar-24 8:43, Peter Moylan wrote:
> On 23/03/24 07:16, Sam Plusnet wrote:
>> On 22-Mar-24 11:41, Hibou wrote:
>>> Le 22/03/2024 à 02:11, Sn!pe a écrit :
>>>> In English, which is correct:
>>>>
>>>> 'forums' or 'fora';  'viruses', 'viri', "virii" (hoho) or 'vira' ?
>>>
>>> I quite like 'fora', but I wouldn't say it to a dustman.
>>
>> Your use of "dustman" dates you terribly.
>>
>> That said, I'm unsure what the current job title might be.
>>
>> Recycling operative?
>
> "Garbo" here.
>
Why not a "Greta"?

--
Sam Plusnet

Sam Plusnet <not@home.com> wrote:

> On 23-Mar-24 8:43, Peter Moylan wrote:
> > On 23/03/24 07:16, Sam Plusnet wrote:
> >> On 22-Mar-24 11:41, Hibou wrote:
> >>> Le 22/03/2024 à 02:11, Sn!pe a écrit :
> >>>> In English, which is correct:
> >>>>
> >>>> 'forums' or 'fora'; 'viruses', 'viri', "virii" (hoho) or 'vira' ?
> >>>
> >>> I quite like 'fora', but I wouldn't say it to a dustman.
> >>
> >> Your use of "dustman" dates you terribly.
> >>
> >> That said, I'm unsure what the current job title might be.
> >>
> >> Recycling operative?
> >
> > "Garbo" here.
> >
> Why not a "Greta"?

Cue: Pete and Dud.

--
^Ï^. Sn!pe, PA, FIBS - Professional Crastinator

My pet rock Gordon has full confidence in our political masters.

In article <2uadnePmiZvivGL4nZ2dnZfqn_SdnZ2d@giganews.com>,
Mark Brader <msb@vex.net> wrote:
> Charles Hope:
> >>> In the 1950s, Edinburgh used to have a separate waste Paper collection,
> >>> ISTR that women were used to collect the sacks.

> Mark Brader:
> >> What exactly is a "sack" in this context? Size and material, please.
>
> Charles Hope:
> > Canvas - and to me as a child - quite large

> Interesting. I'd also call that a sack. Do you know if the city supplied
> them for this purpose, or what?

Yes, they were supplied for this job. The full one was swapped for an empty
one each week and collected in a specially fiited out lorry, so the full
ones could be hung up on the sides of the vehicle Oh, they were green.

--
from KT24 in Surrey, England - sent from my RISC OS 4té²
"I'd rather die of exhaustion than die of boredom" Thomas Carlyle

On Sat, 23 Mar 2024 18:37:51 +0000, msb@vex.net (Mark Brader) wrote:

>Charles Hope:
>>>> In the 1950s, Edinburgh used to have a separate waste Paper collection,
>>>> ISTR that women were used to collect the sacks.
>
>Mark Brader:
>>> What exactly is a "sack" in this context? Size and material, please.

Back in the day when most people subscribed to a daily newspaper, a
weekly chore was tying up the week's issues in a bundle and setting
them out for the trash collector.

"String" or "twine" was used to tie up the bundles. When playing
Scrabble with my grandsons, I used "twine". Both wanted to reject it
as a non-word. Both insisted that the word I was thinking of was
"twain", but I further confused them saying that Kipling wasn't
stringing us along.

>
>Charles Hope:
>> Canvas - and to me as a child - quite large
>
>Interesting. I'd also call that a sack. Do you know if the city supplied
>them for this purpose, or what?

Are we going to do "sack/bag" again? When I check out at the
supermarket, the cashier asks "Paper or plastic?". To me, if I choose
"paper" I've chosen a "sack", but if I choose "plastic" I've chosen a
"bag".

On 24/03/24 01:35, occam wrote:
> On 23/03/2024 00:32, Peter Moylan wrote:
>> On 23/03/24 03:40, lar3ryca wrote:
>>
>>> Flavius Maximus is in Cicero's bar. Cicero asks him, "What're ya havin'?"
>>>
>>> "Uh gimme a martinus."
>>> "You mean a martini."
>>> "If I want ttwo, I'll ask for them."
>>
>> You've got a good ear.
>
> If both your ears ring in the morning, do you have tinnitus or tinniti ?

I have tinnitum.

--
Peter Moylan http://www.pmoylan.org
Newcastle, NSW

occam scribbled something on Saturday the 3/23/2024:
> On 23/03/2024 00:32, Peter Moylan wrote:
>> On 23/03/24 03:40, lar3ryca wrote:
>>
>>> Flavius Maximus is in Cicero's bar. Cicero asks him, "What're ya havin'?"
>>>
>>> "Uh gimme a martinus."
>>> "You mean a martini."
>>> "If I want ttwo, I'll ask for them."
>>
>> You've got a good ear.
>>
>
> If both your ears ring in the morning, do you have tinnitus or tinniti ?

Or you forgot to turn your phone off.

-d

--
Who, me? And what lacuna?