Under what circumstances can the abbreviation of a word be counted as a
word itself? Is it considered a different word if it has a separate
entry in the dictionary?

Example - today's Wordle solution.

Miffed, of Luxembourg

occam wrote:

> Under what circumstances can the abbreviation of a word be counted as a
> word itself? Is it considered a different word if it has a separate
> entry in the dictionary?
>
> Example - today's Wordle solution.

I have been involved in a context where that was a daily word. It was a
Danish context, but the word is just as common in other languages.

PS. It has even produced another word which is used a bit jokingly, but
also seriously. I won't reveal the other word today (at least not early)
because even with ROT there is still too much information.

--
Bertel
Kolt, Denmark

Bertel Lund Hansen wrote:

> PS. It has even produced another word which is used a bit jokingly, but
> also seriously. I won't reveal the other word today (at least not early)
> because even with ROT there is still too much information.

The other word ROT'ed is:

bhgeb

--
Bertel
Kolt, Denmark

Bertel Lund Hansen noted that:
> Bertel Lund Hansen wrote:
>
>> PS. It has even produced another word which is used a bit jokingly, but
>> also seriously. I won't reveal the other word today (at least not early)
>> because even with ROT there is still too much information.
>
> The other word ROT'ed is:
>
> bhgeb

One of my favorite stream sources regular calls for rolling it.

/dps

--
And the Raiders and the Broncos have life now in the West. I thought
they were both nearly dead if not quite really most sincerely dead. --
Mike Salfino, fivethirtyeight.com

El Thu, 25 Apr 2024 17:42:29 +0200, Bertel Lund Hansen escribió:

> Bertel Lund Hansen wrote:
>
>> PS. It has even produced another word which is used a bit jokingly, but
>> also seriously. I won't reveal the other word today (at least not
>> early)
>> because even with ROT there is still too much information.
>
> The other word ROT'ed is:
>
> bhgeb

Do people still use rot13? In this new world where even speakers of
English acknowledge that English is not the only language in the world,
surely it's not really a lot of use. The newsreader that I use doesn't
have the option to rot13 stuff. Maybe the better option would be to XOR
all the letters.

--
Paul.

https://paulc.es

Bertel Lund Hansen wrote:

> The other word ROT'ed is:

The words are "intro" and "outro", and musicians from rhythmic music
will use "intro" every day.

https://s3.amazonaws.com/halleonard-pagepreviews/HL_DDS_1219546MQal0HF65E.png

I don't know how far "outro" has gone. We used it a few times in the
band I played in. I asked my brither who has been a fulltime musician.
He wouldn't use the word in writing, but he might say it.

--
Bertel
Kolt, Denmark

On 2024-04-26 07:39:55 +0000, Paul Carmichael said:

> El Thu, 25 Apr 2024 17:42:29 +0200, Bertel Lund Hansen escribió:
>
>> Bertel Lund Hansen wrote:
>>
>>> PS. It has even produced another word which is used a bit jokingly, but
>>> also seriously. I won't reveal the other word today (at least not
>>> early)
>>> because even with ROT there is still too much information.
>>
>> The other word ROT'ed is:
>>
>> bhgeb
>
>
> Do people still use rot13?

Why not? It does its job very well.

> In this new world where even speakers of
> English acknowledge that English is not the only language in the world,
> surely it's not really a lot of use. The newsreader that I use doesn't
> have the option to rot13 stuff. Maybe the better option would be to XOR
> all the letters.

--
Athel -- French and British, living in Marseilles for 37 years; mainly
in England until 1987.

Paul Carmichael wrote:

>> The other word ROT'ed is:
>>
>> bhgeb
>
> Do people still use rot13?

Of course.

> In this new world where even speakers of
> English acknowledge that English is not the only language in the world,
> surely it's not really a lot of use.

It fulfills its purpose: to hide the text from people who don't want to
see it (yet).

> The newsreader that I use doesn't have the option to rot13 stuff.

Neither has mine, but I have written a small Python script to handle it.

--
Bertel
Kolt, Denmark

On 2024-04-26 08:05:02 +0000, Bertel Lund Hansen said:

> Paul Carmichael wrote:
>
>>> The other word ROT'ed is:
>>>
>>> bhgeb
>>
>> Do people still use rot13?
>
> Of course.
>
>> In this new world where even speakers of
>> English acknowledge that English is not the only language in the world,
>> surely it's not really a lot of use.
>
> It fulfills its purpose: to hide the text from people who don't want to
> see it (yet).
>
>> The newsreader that I use doesn't have the option to rot13 stuff.
>
> Neither has mine, but I have written a small Python script to handle it.

Mine has it, with separate commands for Scramble and Unscramble. The
programmer must have known that they do exactly the same thing, but
perhaps some users don't.

--
Athel -- French and British, living in Marseilles for 37 years; mainly
in England until 1987.

On 26/04/2024 08:49, Bertel Lund Hansen wrote:
> Bertel Lund Hansen wrote:
>
>> The other word ROT'ed is:
>
> The words are "intro" and "outro", and musicians from rhythmic music
> will use "intro" every day.
>
> https://s3.amazonaws.com/halleonard-pagepreviews/HL_DDS_1219546MQal0HF65E.png
>
> I don't know how far "outro" has gone. We used it a few times in the
> band I played in. I asked my brither who has been a fulltime musician.
> He wouldn't use the word in writing, but he might say it.
>

"outro" seems to be in current use in video production:

"An intro is a short, concise clip that offers branding space and lets
you give a rundown of the rest of your video. An outro is your sign-off
or conclusion to your video."
(<https://www.upwork.com/resources/best-video-intro-outro-makers>)

and, of course, known from "The Intro and the Outro" by the Bonzos:

<https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8DUEAG5eO6c>

--
Phil B

On 26/04/2024 09:49, Bertel Lund Hansen wrote:
> The words are "intro" and "outro", and musicians from rhythmic music
> will use "intro" every day.

I'm sorry. Usage of English by musicians is not a good recommendation
in my world.

"I love you pa, I love you ma, o-waah o-waah"

(Bob Dylan)

occam wrote:

> I'm sorry. Usage of English by musicians is not a good recommendation
> in my world.

There are thousands of different English groups who develop their own
version of English. Why are musicians unqualified?

--
Bertel
Kolt, Denmark

On 26/04/24 18:22, Athel Cornish-Bowden wrote:
> On 2024-04-26 08:05:02 +0000, Bertel Lund Hansen said:
>
>> Paul Carmichael wrote:
>>
>>>> The other word ROT'ed is:
>>>>
>>>> bhgeb
>>>
>>> Do people still use rot13?
>>
>> Of course.
>>
>>> In this new world where even speakers of English acknowledge that
>>> English is not the only language in the world, surely it's not
>>> really a lot of use.
>>
>> It fulfills its purpose: to hide the text from people who don't
>> want to see it (yet).

I see Paul's point, though. Rot13 can't handle accented characters, and
it certainly can't handle non-Latin scripts.

>>> The newsreader that I use doesn't have the option to rot13
>>> stuff.
>>
>> Neither has mine, but I have written a small Python script to
>> handle it.
>
> Mine has it, with separate commands for Scramble and Unscramble. The
> programmer must have known that they do exactly the same thing, but
> perhaps some users don't.

On Thunderbird I use an add-on handling several codes. There are
separate Encode and Decode menus, which means that rot13 appears twice,
but that makes sense for symmetry. The other codes that are handled are
Base64, UUEncode, URI encoders (I haven't checked what those do), Unicode
to numeric (several bases), Kenny, Morse, Leet, Reverse, Upper case,
Lower case.

I don't know what Kenny does. I do know what Leet does, but consider it
stupid.

--
Peter Moylan http://www.pmoylan.org
Newcastle, NSW

On 26/04/2024 at 12:15, Peter Moylan wrote:
> On 26/04/24 18:22, Athel Cornish-Bowden wrote:
>> On 2024-04-26 08:05:02 +0000, Bertel Lund Hansen said:
>>
>>> Paul Carmichael wrote:
>>>
>>>>> The other word ROT'ed is:
>>>>>
>>>>> bhgeb
>>>>
>>>> Do people still use rot13?
>>>
>>> Of course.
>>>
>>>> In this new world where even speakers of English acknowledge that
>>>> English is not the only language in the world, surely it's not
>>>> really a lot of use.
>>>
>>> It fulfills its purpose: to hide the text from people who don't
>>> want to see it (yet).
>
> I see Paul's point, though. Rot13 can't handle accented characters, and
> it certainly can't handle non-Latin scripts.
>
>>>> The newsreader that I use doesn't have the option to rot13
>>>> stuff.
>>>
>>> Neither has mine, but I have written a small Python script to
>>> handle it.
>>
>> Mine has it, with separate commands for Scramble and Unscramble. The
>> programmer must have known that they do exactly the same thing, but
>> perhaps some users don't.
>
> On Thunderbird I use an add-on handling several codes. There are
> separate Encode and Decode menus, which means that rot13 appears twice,
> but that makes sense for symmetry. The other codes that are handled are
> Base64, UUEncode, URI encoders (I haven't checked what those do), Unicode
> to numeric (several bases), Kenny, Morse, Leet, Reverse, Upper case,
> Lower case.
>
> I don't know what Kenny does. I do know what Leet does, but consider it
> stupid.
>

What's the add-on called. I can't find one. TBird 52.

--
Chris Elvidge, England
I WILL NOT BE A SNICKERPUSS.

Peter Moylan wrote:

> I see Paul's point, though. Rot13 can't handle accented characters, and
> it certainly can't handle non-Latin scripts.

It doesn't have to.

My version of ROT has both rot13 and rot16 (for Danish), but nobody else
has that so it's useless.

--
Bertel
Kolt, Denmark

El Fri, 26 Apr 2024 09:56:13 +0200, Athel Cornish-Bowden escribió:

> On 2024-04-26 07:39:55 +0000, Paul Carmichael said:
>
>> El Thu, 25 Apr 2024 17:42:29 +0200, Bertel Lund Hansen escribió:
>>
>>> Bertel Lund Hansen wrote:
>>>
>>>> PS. It has even produced another word which is used a bit jokingly,
>>>> but also seriously. I won't reveal the other word today (at least not
>>>> early)
>>>> because even with ROT there is still too much information.
>>>
>>> The other word ROT'ed is:
>>>
>>> bhgeb
>>
>>
>> Do people still use rot13?
>
> Why not? It does its job very well.

As long as your alphabet has 26 chars.

--
Paul.

https://paulc.es

El Fri, 26 Apr 2024 07:39:55 +0000, Paul Carmichael escribió:

> Maybe the better option would be to XOR
> all the letters.

I have no idea why I said that. Total nonsense.

--
Paul.

https://paulc.es

Paul Carmichael wrote:

>>> Do people still use rot13?
>>
>> Why not? It does its job very well.
>
> As long as your alphabet has 26 chars.

It works okay in Danish, but it of course reveals æ, ø and å. That
didn't bother the many writers and readers who used it.

--
Bertel
Kolt, Denmark

On 2024-04-26 13:43:12 +0000, Paul Carmichael said:

> El Fri, 26 Apr 2024 09:56:13 +0200, Athel Cornish-Bowden escribió:
>
>> On 2024-04-26 07:39:55 +0000, Paul Carmichael said:
>>
>>> El Thu, 25 Apr 2024 17:42:29 +0200, Bertel Lund Hansen escribió:
>>>
>>>> Bertel Lund Hansen wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> PS. It has even produced another word which is used a bit jokingly,
>>>>> but also seriously. I won't reveal the other word today (at least not
>>>>> early)
>>>>> because even with ROT there is still too much information.
>>>>
>>>> The other word ROT'ed is:
>>>>
>>>> bhgeb
>>>
>>>
>>> Do people still use rot13?
>>
>> Why not? It does its job very well.
>
> As long as your alphabet has 26 chars.

When I was first using email my Spanish-speaking correspondents ignored
accents (á etc.), ¡ and ¿, but the one they couldn't ignore was ñ,
variously rendered as ni, ny, gn, but never as nn (which seemed the
most logical to me).

--
Athel -- French and British, living in Marseilles for 37 years; mainly
in England until 1987.

On Fri, 26 Apr 2024 10:05:02 +0200
Bertel Lund Hansen <gadekryds@lundhansen.dk> wrote:

> Paul Carmichael wrote:
>
> >> The other word ROT'ed is:
> >>
> >> bhgeb
> >
> > Do people still use rot13?
>
> Of course.
>
> > In this new world where even speakers of
> > English acknowledge that English is not the only language in the world,
> > surely it's not really a lot of use.
>
> It fulfills its purpose: to hide the text from people who don't want to
> see it (yet).
>
> > The newsreader that I use doesn't have the option to rot13 stuff.
>
> Neither has mine, but I have written a small Python script to handle it.
>
I still run my 48 byte rot13.com program in a DOS 'box' (this PC runs
Windows XP).

Pbafhzr zber orrgebbg!

--
Bah, and indeed Humbug.

On Fri, 26 Apr 2024 21:15:08 +1000
Peter Moylan <peter@pmoylan.org.invalid> wrote:

> On 26/04/24 18:22, Athel Cornish-Bowden wrote:
> > On 2024-04-26 08:05:02 +0000, Bertel Lund Hansen said:
> >
> >> Paul Carmichael wrote:
> >>
> >>>> The other word ROT'ed is:
> >>>>
> >>>> bhgeb
> >>>
> >>> Do people still use rot13?
> >>
> >> Of course.
> >>
> >>> In this new world where even speakers of English acknowledge that
> >>> English is not the only language in the world, surely it's not
> >>> really a lot of use.
> >>
> >> It fulfills its purpose: to hide the text from people who don't
> >> want to see it (yet).
>
> I see Paul's point, though. Rot13 can't handle accented characters, and
> it certainly can't handle non-Latin scripts.
>
> >>> The newsreader that I use doesn't have the option to rot13
> >>> stuff.
> >>
> >> Neither has mine, but I have written a small Python script to
> >> handle it.
> >
> > Mine has it, with separate commands for Scramble and Unscramble. The
> > programmer must have known that they do exactly the same thing, but
> > perhaps some users don't.
>
> On Thunderbird I use an add-on handling several codes. There are
> separate Encode and Decode menus, which means that rot13 appears twice,
> but that makes sense for symmetry. The other codes that are handled are
> Base64, UUEncode, URI encoders (I haven't checked what those do), Unicode
> to numeric (several bases), Kenny, Morse, Leet, Reverse, Upper case,
> Lower case.
>
> I don't know what Kenny does.

Kenny speaks like this:

Mfpmff Fmpmfpmpppffmpp!

I do know what Leet does, but consider it
> stupid.
>

--
Bah, and indeed Humbug.

On Fri, 26 Apr 2024 09:58:58 +0100
Phil <phil@anonymous.invalid> wrote:

> On 26/04/2024 08:49, Bertel Lund Hansen wrote:
> > Bertel Lund Hansen wrote:
> >
> >> The other word ROT'ed is:
> >
> > The words are "intro" and "outro", and musicians from rhythmic music
> > will use "intro" every day.
> >
> > https://s3.amazonaws.com/halleonard-pagepreviews/HL_DDS_1219546MQal0HF65E.png
> >
> > I don't know how far "outro" has gone. We used it a few times in the
> > band I played in. I asked my brither who has been a fulltime musician.
> > He wouldn't use the word in writing, but he might say it.
> >
>
> "outro" seems to be in current use in video production:
>
> "An intro is a short, concise clip that offers branding space and lets
> you give a rundown of the rest of your video. An outro is your sign-off
> or conclusion to your video."
> (<https://www.upwork.com/resources/best-video-intro-outro-makers>)
>
>
> and, of course, known from "The Intro and the Outro" by the Bonzos:
>
> <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8DUEAG5eO6c>
>
Thank you sports fans.

--
Bah, and indeed Humbug.

On 26-Apr-24 9:05, Bertel Lund Hansen wrote:
> Paul Carmichael wrote:
>
>>> The other word ROT'ed is:
>>>
>>> bhgeb
>>
>> Do people still use rot13?
>
> Of course.
>
>> In this new world where even speakers of
>> English acknowledge that English is not the only language in the world,
>> surely it's not really a lot of use.
>
> It fulfills its purpose: to hide the text from people who don't want to
> see it (yet).

And gives some harmless mental exercise to those who like to see if they
can guess/decode the text without assistance.

--
Sam Plusnet

On 26-Apr-24 12:15, Peter Moylan wrote:
> On 26/04/24 18:22, Athel Cornish-Bowden wrote:
>> On 2024-04-26 08:05:02 +0000, Bertel Lund Hansen said:
>>
>>> Paul Carmichael wrote:
>>>
>>>>> The other word ROT'ed is:
>>>>>
>>>>> bhgeb
>>>>
>>>> Do people still use rot13?
>>>
>>> Of course.
>>>
>>>> In this new world where even speakers of English acknowledge that
>>>> English is not the only language in the world, surely it's not
>>>> really a lot of use.
>>>
>>> It fulfills its purpose: to hide the text from people who don't
>>> want to see it (yet).
>
> I see Paul's point, though. Rot13 can't handle accented characters, and
> it certainly can't handle non-Latin scripts.
>
>>>> The newsreader that I use doesn't have the option to rot13
>>>> stuff.
>>>
>>> Neither has mine, but I have written a small Python script to
>>> handle it.
>>
>> Mine has it, with separate commands for Scramble and Unscramble. The
>>  programmer must have known that they do exactly the same thing, but
>>  perhaps some users don't.
>
> On Thunderbird I use an add-on handling several codes. There are
> separate Encode and Decode menus, which means that rot13 appears twice,
> but that makes sense for symmetry. The other codes that are handled are
> Base64, UUEncode, URI encoders (I haven't checked what those do), Unicode
> to numeric (several bases), Kenny, Morse, Leet, Reverse, Upper case,
> Lower case.
>
> I don't know what Kenny does. I do know what Leet does, but consider it
> stupid.
>
Leet stopped working, in current versions of Thunderbird, some time back.
Application updates break useful add-ons - an all too familiar story.

--
Sam Plusnet

On 26-Apr-24 16:07, Paul Carmichael wrote:
> El Fri, 26 Apr 2024 07:39:55 +0000, Paul Carmichael escribió:
>
>> Maybe the better option would be to XOR
>> all the letters.
>
> I have no idea why I said that. Total nonsense.

Better to ROT13 them, twice.

--
Sam Plusnet