On Wed, 08 Sep 2021 20:47:43 +0000, Robin Goodfellow wrote:

> Why do people bother with faceid, touchid, or PINs on a personal cell phone?
>
> I don't live in the slums or favela's of the inner city, although I realize
> some people do - so maybe _they_ are worried someone's gonna sneak up behind
> them and steal their phone right out of their very hands at any instant.
>
> But for the rest of you who do not live in the slums, why all the worry?
> What's on your phone that requires such gimmickry and security?

In short, friendly fire. I use fingerprint or pattern to unlock. Nothing
high security, but good enough to keep the random poker out. Most of the
time the phone is in my pocket but I leave it on charge occasionally.
I don't want people swiping away notifications I need to see or grand kids
installing 20 garbage games or calling random people. Also, it's valid
to have secrets from people you know and they don't even have to be anything
weird. Plan a surprise party or gift or such and ruin the surprise because
a nosy-Nate decided to poke around the phone left unattended. Also, people
have private conversations. Even if nothing nefarious, they don't want
everybody and their mother reading them.

In the younger crowd, I've seen teens sabotage each other, even playfully,
by sending a msg pretending to be the phone owner or installing/deleting
stuff.

On 9/8/2021 1:47 PM, Robin Goodfellow wrote:

<snip>

> I don't live in the slums or favela's of the inner city, although I realize
> some people do - so maybe _they_ are worried someone's gonna sneak up behind
> them and steal their phone right out of their very hands at any instant.

In fact, that happens often in many cities, and not just in the bad
parts of the city. Usually it's someone on a bicycle grabbing the phone
out of someone's hand as they're talking on it.

On Sep 10, 2021, Joe Beanfish wrote
> In short, friendly fire. I use fingerprint or pattern to unlock. Nothing
> high security, but good enough to keep the random poker out.

That's all anyone should need to do for security on a personal phone.

> time the phone is in my pocket but I leave it on charge occasionally.
> I don't want people swiping away notifications I need to see or grand kids
> installing 20 garbage games or calling random people.

It has to be just secure enough to keep the friendly fire off your phone.

> Also, it's valid
> to have secrets from people you know and they don't even have to be anything
> weird. Plan a surprise party or gift or such and ruin the surprise because
> a nosy-Nate decided to poke around the phone left unattended. Also, people
> have private conversations. Even if nothing nefarious, they don't want
> everybody and their mother reading them.

A quick & easy instant simple method works best for that universal need.
> In the younger crowd, I've seen teens sabotage each other, even playfully,
> by sending a msg pretending to be the phone owner or installing/deleting
> stuff.

For keeping the random poker out almost anything more than nothing works.

Ron, the humblest guy in town.

The Real Bev <bashley101@gmail.com> asked
> Yeah, but I could just walk across the street to pick out the stove at
> Best Buy. Serious mistake that I won't make if I decide to replace the
> refrigerator. And it won't be a Samsung.

Best way I think to buy durable goods is to read up on Consumer Reports.
https://www.consumerreports.org/refrigerators/best-refrigerators-of-the-year-a6399727407/

Then pick one of their best models in terms of what you care about.
If you worry about repairs, then choose intelligently _before_ you pay!

Can you believe there are millions of idiots paying for *PHONE* warranties?
--
Paying for a phone warranty is the surest sign of inherent low intelligence.

On 09/10/2021 04:04 PM, Robin Goodfellow wrote:
> The Real Bev <bashley101@gmail.com> asked
>> Yeah, but I could just walk across the street to pick out the stove at
>> Best Buy. Serious mistake that I won't make if I decide to replace the
>> refrigerator. And it won't be a Samsung.
>
> Best way I think to buy durable goods is to read up on Consumer Reports.
> https://www.consumerreports.org/refrigerators/best-refrigerators-of-the-year-a6399727407/

Back in the dark ages I would always go to the library and use their CR
collection. BUT they always evaluated items/stock numbers that I wasn't
considering or weren't available on the west coast and downgraded
products for stupid stuff like "if you stick a coat-hanger into the vent
on the back of the unit you can get a shock." I finally concluded that,
except for their historical automobile repair records it was a waste of
time. Even those aren't that useful, except for squinting your eyes to
see how dark a particular column is. Lighter is better. It would have
been nice if typical cost of repair had been included.

FWIW, the right side mirror on my mom's 1988 Caddy (ultimately mine)
stopped working because the cable detached itself from the mirror. She
was quoted a price of $400 (you had to pull the AC and a lot of other
stuff under the dashboard) to fix it. She declined. I would have
declined using foul language.

> Then pick one of their best models in terms of what you care about.
> If you worry about repairs, then choose intelligently _before_ you pay!

Actually, we DID buy an Amana refrigerator based on the CR
recommendation ~30 years ago. POS. The defrost water elimination hose
froze up within a few years. I know that's the problem because when the
compressor fan stopped working for a couple of days it thawed and the
water no longer overflowed through the top of the fridge area into the
container we had placed on the top shelf which we dump every once in a
while. Moreover, the fridge temperature is too cold no matter where I
set it -- stuff on the top shelf always freezes. In addition, we never
knew how important shelf-height adjustment was until we had none :-(.
There is no place to stand 2-liter soda bottles upright, and lying down
they take up far too much space.

POS. If moving the old one out and the new one in weren't such a bitch
I would have replaced it long ago. If it dies completely I'll have to
replace it, and I'll choose whatever Costco has at the time. I'd really
like to get one without either an ice maker or water dispenser. If I
want ice cubes I'll put a couple of trays in and if I want water I'll
rotate my body and turn on the faucet. I want the space, not the stupid
"convenience" of something I would have to add a water line under the
house for, but apparently those are hard to find.

> Can you believe there are millions of idiots paying for *PHONE* warranties?

If people know they're clumsy and are likely to drop/break/lose the
phone then yes -- depending on the calculated expected cost per year.

--
Cheers, Bev
"Never keep up with the Joneses. Drag them down to your level.
It's cheaper." -- Quentin Crisp 1908 - 1999

The Real Bev <bashley101@gmail.com> asked
> Back in the dark ages I would always go to the library and use their CR
> collection. BUT they always evaluated items/stock numbers that I wasn't
> considering or weren't available on the west coast

Having read almost every (if not every) Consumer Report magazine ever
written, I agree fully with you that a _lot_ of stuff they rate isn't
helpful if you can't _find_ it in the store.

This was especially harder prior to the Internet, but a bit easier now to
find stuff that they rated well (as model numbers often change quickly).

> and downgraded
> products for stupid stuff like "if you stick a coat-hanger into the vent
> on the back of the unit you can get a shock."

I agree fully with you that often Consumer Reports rates things on a crazy
scale (e.g., they rate a motorcycle for "noise" levels, which, as you may
know, isn't generally a critical item for most bikers to care much about).

Yet, for the common commodities (tires, brakes, fridges, washers, dryers,
etc.), I think they do a good job testing what matters to most people.

> I finally concluded that,
> except for their historical automobile repair records it was a waste of
> time.

Some things they test are good (e.g., cars, as you mention, for reliability,
but they don't do luxury cars well as what they care about is different).

They do tires reasonably well though.
And motor oil.

Things that are commodities are better done in my opinion (but I remember an
ice cream ratings that many of my friends hated way back in the 70's or 80's
when it first came out). Taste was what mattered to my friends, not whatever
else CU rated.

> Even those aren't that useful, except for squinting your eyes to
> see how dark a particular column is. Lighter is better. It would have
> been nice if typical cost of repair had been included.

I get the survey in the mail and I love to fill it out!
(BMW's have a ton of problems even as the drive train is bulletproof.)

> FWIW, the right side mirror on my mom's 1988 Caddy (ultimately mine)
> stopped working because the cable detached itself from the mirror. She
> was quoted a price of $400 (you had to pull the AC and a lot of other
> stuff under the dashboard) to fix it. She declined. I would have
> declined using foul language.

I haven't been to a mechanic in many decades, where I do all my own work.
When I wrote a tutorial on how to replace the clutch in a Toyota, I did one
of the handful of tasks everyone wants to do at home, but most people can't.

a. Fueling your car with convenience at home (I do it all the time)
b. Buying, mounting and balancing your own tires on rims at home
c. Major painting job such as sanding & painting the exterior
d. Major engine repair such as replace (or rebuild) the engine
e. Major transmission repair such as replace the clutch & diaphragm

I've done it all, but the painting is getting harder in the Silicon Valley
due to the rules on air pollution (you have to impersonate someone from
another county - where in California, only some counties can even sell the
real "blue windshield washer fluid" due to the VOC laws in this crazy CA).

>> Then pick one of their best models in terms of what you care about.
>> If you worry about repairs, then choose intelligently _before_ you pay!
>
> Actually, we DID buy an Amana refrigerator based on the CR
> recommendation ~30 years ago. POS. The defrost water elimination hose
> froze up within a few years.

It happens.

> I know that's the problem because when the
> compressor fan stopped working for a couple of days it thawed and the
> water no longer overflowed through the top of the fridge area into the
> container we had placed on the top shelf which we dump every once in a
> while.

As you may know, PG&E has been losing power at the rate of once a month (for
about a day) over the past five or six years, which sky rocketed to twice a
week in the past month (it made the local news so you can look it up).

What happens is the spikes from all those fluctuations is murder on
electronics (my washer had a hole blown in the CPU board and my fridge
compressor stopped working). I bought a kit (with a huge startup cap) to
test the frig and determined the compressor went out. Sigh. New frig.

I get all my stuff nowadays from Costco (the warranty, as Steve mentioned,
is something like four years due to the doubling - but it's not as simple as
Steve may know as you have to go to a DIFFERENT company for the second half
of the warranty - ask me how I know this).

> Moreover, the fridge temperature is too cold no matter where I
> set it -- stuff on the top shelf always freezes.

Air flow?

> In addition, we never
> knew how important shelf-height adjustment was until we had none :-(.

I bought a replacement fridge for the blown compressor one and salvaged the
best shelving, so I have MORE than it came with. Lucky me.

> There is no place to stand 2-liter soda bottles upright, and lying down
> they take up far too much space. POS.

I understand. That's one problem when you add extra door inserts like I did.
Luckily, I make my own soda with carbon dioxide tanks so I can put the soda
water into any bottle size I want.

What I do is fill a large mouthed off-brand empty soda bottle from the
dollar store with about a half liter of water and I let it freeze.

Then I fill it with water up to about the neck and bubble in the carbon
dioxide while I shake (bubbles of C02 go in just like they would go out by
shaking) until it's saturated (I use about 40 psi but the saturation point
is only around 22 or so PSI partial pressure of Carbon Dioxide).

Then I pour that carbon dioxide saturated water into any sized soda bottle I
want. I called up Coke who tests their bottles at something like 190psi so
I'm nowhere near the limit, but it _will_ blow up at around 200 psi (ask me
how I know this).

> If moving the old one out and the new one in weren't such a bitch
> I would have replaced it long ago.

Costco delivers and takes away the old one, for free.

> If it dies completely I'll have to
> replace it, and I'll choose whatever Costco has at the time.

Yup. Whirlpool. All my stuff is whirlpool. From Costco.

> I'd really
> like to get one without either an ice maker or water dispenser.

I love the ice maker but it's huge so it takes up a lot of space.
I don't need the water filter though as I have great well water.

> If I
> want ice cubes I'll put a couple of trays in and if I want water I'll
> rotate my body and turn on the faucet. I want the space, not the stupid
> "convenience" of something I would have to add a water line under the
> house for, but apparently those are hard to find.

What irks me is the kids like water and I want cubes so I'm always
forgetting they reset the buttons (I could lock it but I don't, just as I
don't lock my phone with fingerprint or faceid or other biometric gimmicks).

>> Can you believe there are millions of idiots paying for *PHONE* warranties?
>
> If people know they're clumsy and are likely to drop/break/lose the
> phone then yes -- depending on the calculated expected cost per year.

The people who sell those warranties make money. They know better than you
do what chance you have of breaking things and how much it will cost to fix.

If you feel you're _smarter_ than those professionals, then maybe you'll get
a good deal. But unless you know something they don't know, you won't.

That's how _all_ insurance works.

On 9/11/2021 2:18 PM, The Real Bev wrote:

<snip>

> Back in the dark ages I would always go to the library and use their CR
> collection.  BUT they always evaluated items/stock numbers that I wasn't
> considering or weren't available on the west coast and downgraded
> products for stupid stuff like "if you stick a coat-hanger into the vent
> on the back of the unit you can get a shock."  I finally concluded that,
> except for their historical automobile repair records it was a waste of
> time.  Even those aren't that useful, except for squinting your eyes to
> see how dark a particular column is.  Lighter is better.  It would have
> been nice if typical cost of repair had been included.

Yeah, the historical vehicle repair data was useful. It was often
amusing to see that vehicle that they had recommended as a top pick
ended up as much worse than average when they published the repair
records a few years later.

Their survey of mobile networks was also very good since, like the
historical car repair data, they had an enormous sample size so it was
statistically very accurate. But it rarely changed year to year, Verizon
was always first, AT&T second, T-Mobile and Sprint were third and fourth.

<snip>

>> Can you believe there are millions of idiots paying for *PHONE*
>> warranties?
>
> If people know they're clumsy and are likely to drop/break/lose the
> phone then yes -- depending on the calculated expected cost per year.

True, but several credit cards provide cell phone coverage at no extra
cost if you pay the bill with the card. I have one Mastercard that
covers $800 per year in damage with a $50 deductible. But my neighbor,
with the same card, told me that he got a letter from the issuer that
they were dropping that benefit in 2022. Also, if you buy a phone
outright, with the Costco Visa, you get two extra years of coverage at
no cost. So that's three years of warranty.

In article <shjfiq$ghp$1@dont-email.me>, sms
<scharf.steven@geemail.com> wrote:

> Their survey of mobile networks was also very good since, like the
> historical car repair data, they had an enormous sample size so it was
> statistically very accurate. But it rarely changed year to year, Verizon
> was always first, AT&T second, T-Mobile and Sprint were third and fourth.

not always.

<https://www.consumerreports.org/cell-phone-service-providers/best-cell-
phone-companies-is-bigger-better-a7432805627/>
T-Mobile, which merged with Sprint after our survey was completed,
once again placed significantly higher than the other three for
overall satisfaction.

note that t-mobile was 'significantly higher' more than just once.