This thread seems to be just about the only source of information about the progress of the JETA.
And now this too has been silent for almost a year. Any news about the gliders? Anyone flying the JETA?

On 6/7/21 1:12 PM, GoofyGlider wrote:
> This thread seems to be just about the only source of information about the progress of the JETA.
> And now this too has been silent for almost a year. Any news about the gliders? Anyone flying the JETA?
>

Well they sold off the factory demonstrator a while ago, that would have
been your shot at getting a flyable Jeta.

https://wingsandwheels.com/catalog/product/view/id/4237/s/gp-gliders-gp15-jeta/category/252/

On Tuesday, June 8, 2021 at 1:28:25 PM UTC+2, kinsell wrote:
> On 6/7/21 1:12 PM, GoofyGlider wrote:
> > This thread seems to be just about the only source of information about the progress of the JETA.
> > And now this too has been silent for almost a year. Any news about the gliders? Anyone flying the JETA?
> >
> Well they sold off the factory demonstrator a while ago, that would have
> been your shot at getting a flyable Jeta.
>
> https://wingsandwheels.com/catalog/product/view/id/4237/s/gp-gliders-gp15-jeta/category/252/

Thanks for reply. However, your answer sort of implies that there is now no way to buy/get a flyable Jeta?
And my question if anyone is actually flying the Jeta is unanswered - I'll just take that as a no.

I have no intention to hurt anyones feelings, but I like the concept, and I would love to own a Jeta. I just need to know
if that is possible, or if I should look elsewhere.

On 7/1/2021 2:42 AM, GoofyGlider wrote:
> On Tuesday, June 8, 2021 at 1:28:25 PM UTC+2, kinsell wrote:
>> On 6/7/21 1:12 PM, GoofyGlider wrote:
>>> This thread seems to be just about the only source of information about the progress of the JETA.
>>> And now this too has been silent for almost a year. Any news about the gliders? Anyone flying the JETA?
>>>
>> Well they sold off the factory demonstrator a while ago, that would have
>> been your shot at getting a flyable Jeta.
>>
>> https://wingsandwheels.com/catalog/product/view/id/4237/s/gp-gliders-gp15-jeta/category/252/
>
> Thanks for reply. However, your answer sort of implies that there is now no way to buy/get a flyable Jeta?
> And my question if anyone is actually flying the Jeta is unanswered - I'll just take that as a no.
>
> I have no intention to hurt anyones feelings, but I like the concept, and I would love to own a Jeta. I just need to know
> if that is possible, or if I should look elsewhere.

Here's a minor update from the dealer, Tom Holloran, posted yesterday on the GP Gliders group:

"Serial #0001 was picked up from the port in Galveston and is in Missouri. They passed the
FAA inspection and will be flying tomorrow. #0002 is still being updated. #0003 was in the
paint shop last week."

I've owned a Schleicher ASH26E for 26 years, and it's been very good to me. The Jeta is
the first glider that I thought I would enjoy more than the 26E, so I've ordered and paid
for one. I realize there is a real risk ordering from a startup glider company (even my
26E was delivered a year late, and Schleicher been in business a long time), but at my
age, waiting years for certainty is not a good option, and the risk was acceptable to me.
I won't sell the 26E until my Jeta is "on the water" (I'm not crazy).

Paying up front gets you an earlier (but unknown) delivery date; a refundable deposit gets
you a place in a long line. I suggest contacting the Tom if the Jeta still seems
interesting to you. We all hope the production pace picks up quickly, but bringing a new
glider to market is difficult, even in good times, and Poland is still affected by
Covid-19, as are their component suppliers in other countries

--
Eric Greenwell - USA
- "A Guide to Self-launching Sailplane Operation"
https://sites.google.com/site/motorgliders/publications/download-the-guide-1

Maybe it would be better to wait until after it's got its registration
and airworthiness certificates in the US...  😂

Dan
5J

On 7/1/21 7:17 AM, Eric Greenwell wrote:
> I won't sell the 26E until my Jeta is "on the water" (I'm not crazy).

On 7/1/2021 11:19 AM, Dan Marotta wrote:
> Maybe it would be better to wait until after it's got its registration and airworthiness
> certificates in the US...  😂
>
> Dan
> 5J
>
> On 7/1/21 7:17 AM, Eric Greenwell wrote:
>> I won't sell the 26E until my Jeta is "on the water" (I'm not crazy).

There are at least 5 US customers ahead of me, so I'll know about any
registration/airworthiness issues before mine is shipped. Since they will all be
Experimentally licensed at first, I'm not expecting any problems, but they can still happen.

--
Eric Greenwell - USA
- "A Guide to Self-launching Sailplane Operation"
https://sites.google.com/site/motorgliders/publications/download-the-guide-1

On 7/1/21 7:17 AM, Eric Greenwell wrote:
> On 7/1/2021 2:42 AM, GoofyGlider wrote:
>> On Tuesday, June 8, 2021 at 1:28:25 PM UTC+2, kinsell wrote:
>>> On 6/7/21 1:12 PM, GoofyGlider wrote:
>>>> This thread seems to be just about the only source of information
>>>> about the progress of the JETA.
>>>> And now this too has been silent for almost a year. Any news about
>>>> the gliders? Anyone flying the JETA?
>>>>
>>> Well they sold off the factory demonstrator a while ago, that would have
>>> been your shot at getting a flyable Jeta.
>>>
>>> https://wingsandwheels.com/catalog/product/view/id/4237/s/gp-gliders-gp15-jeta/category/252/
>>>
>>
>> Thanks for reply. However, your answer sort of implies that there is
>> now no way to buy/get a flyable Jeta?
>> And my question if anyone is actually flying the Jeta is unanswered -
>> I'll just take that as a no.
>>
>> I have no intention to hurt anyones feelings, but I like the concept,
>> and I would love to own a Jeta. I just need to know
>> if that is possible, or if I should look elsewhere.

No offense taken. You asked a question, I answered it, just wasn't the
answer you wanted to hear.

However, late breaking news, you now have a second golden opportunity to
own a Jeta. SN0002, which got delivered at the 2020 SSA convention, has
just popped up on Facebook. It seemed to have gotten sold last fall on
W&W, now on the market yet again. I have a friend in Oregon who's never
going to touch that glider again, but as they say, one man's trash,
another man's treasure! Contact the dealer with large check in hand,
I'm sure it can be yours. It sure won't be mine.

Dave

>
> Here's a minor update from the dealer, Tom Holloran, posted yesterday on
> the GP Gliders group:
>
> "Serial #0001 was picked up from the port in Galveston and is in
> Missouri. They passed the FAA inspection and will be flying tomorrow.
> #0002 is still being updated. #0003 was in the paint shop last week."
>
> I've owned a Schleicher ASH26E for 26 years, and it's been very good to
> me. The Jeta is the first glider that I thought I would enjoy more than
> the 26E, so I've ordered and paid for one. I realize there is a real
> risk ordering from a startup glider company (even my 26E was delivered a
> year late, and Schleicher been in business a long time), but at my age,
> waiting years for certainty is not a good option, and the risk was
> acceptable to me. I won't sell the 26E until my Jeta is "on the water"
> (I'm not crazy).
>
> Paying up front gets you an earlier (but unknown) delivery date; a
> refundable deposit gets you a place in a long line. I suggest contacting
> the Tom if the Jeta still seems interesting to you. We all hope the
> production pace picks up quickly, but bringing a new glider to market is
> difficult, even in good times, and Poland is still affected by Covid-19,
> as are their component suppliers in other countries
>

On Monday, July 5, 2021 at 7:32:27 AM UTC-6, kinsell wrote:
> On 7/1/21 7:17 AM, Eric Greenwell wrote:
> > On 7/1/2021 2:42 AM, GoofyGlider wrote:
> >> On Tuesday, June 8, 2021 at 1:28:25 PM UTC+2, kinsell wrote:
> >>> On 6/7/21 1:12 PM, GoofyGlider wrote:
> >>>> This thread seems to be just about the only source of information
> >>>> about the progress of the JETA.
> >>>> And now this too has been silent for almost a year. Any news about
> >>>> the gliders? Anyone flying the JETA?
> >>>>
> >>> Well they sold off the factory demonstrator a while ago, that would have
> >>> been your shot at getting a flyable Jeta.
> >>>
> >>> https://wingsandwheels.com/catalog/product/view/id/4237/s/gp-gliders-gp15-jeta/category/252/
> >>>
> >>
> >> Thanks for reply. However, your answer sort of implies that there is
> >> now no way to buy/get a flyable Jeta?
> >> And my question if anyone is actually flying the Jeta is unanswered -
> >> I'll just take that as a no.
> >>
> >> I have no intention to hurt anyones feelings, but I like the concept,
> >> and I would love to own a Jeta. I just need to know
> >> if that is possible, or if I should look elsewhere.
> No offense taken. You asked a question, I answered it, just wasn't the
> answer you wanted to hear.
>
> However, late breaking news, you now have a second golden opportunity to
> own a Jeta. SN0002, which got delivered at the 2020 SSA convention, has
> just popped up on Facebook. It seemed to have gotten sold last fall on
> W&W, now on the market yet again. I have a friend in Oregon who's never
> going to touch that glider again, but as they say, one man's trash,
> another man's treasure! Contact the dealer with large check in hand,
> I'm sure it can be yours. It sure won't be mine.
>
> Dave
> >
> > Here's a minor update from the dealer, Tom Holloran, posted yesterday on
> > the GP Gliders group:
> >
> > "Serial #0001 was picked up from the port in Galveston and is in
> > Missouri. They passed the FAA inspection and will be flying tomorrow.
> > #0002 is still being updated. #0003 was in the paint shop last week."
> >
> > I've owned a Schleicher ASH26E for 26 years, and it's been very good to
> > me. The Jeta is the first glider that I thought I would enjoy more than
> > the 26E, so I've ordered and paid for one. I realize there is a real
> > risk ordering from a startup glider company (even my 26E was delivered a
> > year late, and Schleicher been in business a long time), but at my age,
> > waiting years for certainty is not a good option, and the risk was
> > acceptable to me. I won't sell the 26E until my Jeta is "on the water"
> > (I'm not crazy).
> >
> > Paying up front gets you an earlier (but unknown) delivery date; a
> > refundable deposit gets you a place in a long line. I suggest contacting
> > the Tom if the Jeta still seems interesting to you. We all hope the
> > production pace picks up quickly, but bringing a new glider to market is
> > difficult, even in good times, and Poland is still affected by Covid-19,
> > as are their component suppliers in other countries
> >

This thread started in 2017, a long time ago and there on #2?
Whoa, scary
Nick
T

On 7/5/21 8:16 AM, Nicholas Kennedy wrote:

>
> This thread started in 2017, a long time ago and there on #2?
> Whoa, scary
> Nick
> T
>

Turns out they were dragging their heels waiting for the EASA 600kg
MTOW ultralight (microlight) change to go into effect, which took longer
than they expected. 600kg seems awfully heavy for a 15 meter glider,
wonder if they can still selflaunch at that weight?

SN002 doesn't have the recent design changes announced, new motor,new
prop, bigger rudder. Seems like they're trying to be all things to all
people, and not making anyone happy as a result. The F-35 of the glider
world. Much like the SSA website?

They were taking orders in 2015, with deliveries promised in 2016, but
seem to have no ability to stabilize the design and actually start
cranking them out. People are literally aging out of the sport waiting
for their Jeta's to show up.

Dave

On Monday, July 5, 2021 at 7:48:30 AM UTC-7, kinsell wrote:
> On 7/5/21 8:16 AM, Nicholas Kennedy wrote:
>
> >
> > This thread started in 2017, a long time ago and there on #2?
> > Whoa, scary
> > Nick
> > T
> >
> Turns out they were dragging their heels waiting for the EASA 600kg
> MTOW ultralight (microlight) change to go into effect, which took longer
> than they expected. 600kg seems awfully heavy for a 15 meter glider,
> wonder if they can still selflaunch at that weight?
>
> SN002 doesn't have the recent design changes announced, new motor,new
> prop, bigger rudder. Seems like they're trying to be all things to all
> people, and not making anyone happy as a result. The F-35 of the glider
> world. Much like the SSA website?
>
> They were taking orders in 2015, with deliveries promised in 2016, but
> seem to have no ability to stabilize the design and actually start
> cranking them out. People are literally aging out of the sport waiting
> for their Jeta's to show up.
>
> Dave
Things have gone from very bad to much worse at GP Gliders. They released an email a week or so ago where they tried to blame the delays on EVERYTHING (covid, inflation, money printing, etc.) EXCEPT their own mismanagement. They listed an extensive list of "improvements" which includes everything in the glider! This includes:
-new wing
-new vertical stabilizer
-new horizontal stabilizer
-new propeller
-new motor
-new BRS
-new landing gear
-many other "improvements"
This will delay deliveries by 12-15 months, but expect that to be extended this fall. GP Gliders insists that these delays were not known just FOUR MONTHS ago - how the hell did they decide to redesign the ENTIRE glider in just the last few months??? My guess is that their prototype grossly missed meeting their pretty wild performance claims. GP no doubt has tested the prototype and is welcome to publish the results. Do I expect that to happen? OF COURSE NOT!

They also complain about lost sales (DUH!!!). If I had a deposit down on this glider, and I don't, I would demand it back IMMEDIATELY!

Tom

On 7/18/2021 12:14 AM, 2G wrote:
> On Monday, July 5, 2021 at 7:48:30 AM UTC-7, kinsell wrote:
>> On 7/5/21 8:16 AM, Nicholas Kennedy wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> This thread started in 2017, a long time ago and there on #2?
>>> Whoa, scary
>>> Nick
>>> T
>>>
>> Turns out they were dragging their heels waiting for the EASA 600kg
>> MTOW ultralight (microlight) change to go into effect, which took longer
>> than they expected. 600kg seems awfully heavy for a 15 meter glider,
>> wonder if they can still selflaunch at that weight?
>>
>> SN002 doesn't have the recent design changes announced, new motor,new
>> prop, bigger rudder. Seems like they're trying to be all things to all
>> people, and not making anyone happy as a result. The F-35 of the glider
>> world. Much like the SSA website?
>>
>> They were taking orders in 2015, with deliveries promised in 2016, but
>> seem to have no ability to stabilize the design and actually start
>> cranking them out. People are literally aging out of the sport waiting
>> for their Jeta's to show up.
>>
>> Dave
> Things have gone from very bad to much worse at GP Gliders. They released an email a week or so ago where they tried to blame the delays on EVERYTHING (covid, inflation, money printing, etc.) EXCEPT their own mismanagement. They listed an extensive list of "improvements" which includes everything in the glider! This includes:
> -new wing
> -new vertical stabilizer
> -new horizontal stabilizer
> -new propeller
> -new motor
> -new BRS
> -new landing gear
> -many other "improvements"
> This will delay deliveries by 12-15 months, but expect that to be extended this fall. GP Gliders insists that these delays were not known just FOUR MONTHS ago - how the hell did they decide to redesign the ENTIRE glider in just the last few months??? My guess is that their prototype grossly missed meeting their pretty wild performance claims. GP no doubt has tested the prototype and is welcome to publish the results. Do I expect that to happen? OF COURSE NOT!
>
> They also complain about lost sales (DUH!!!). If I had a deposit down on this glider, and I don't, I would demand it back IMMEDIATELY!
>
> Tom

I'm puzzled by the concern over GP deliveries by people that don't have one on order. The
delay of 12-15 months was announced months ago and blamed primarily on the disruption
caused by the pandemic. Not only was Poland hit hard, but so were component suppliers in
other countries. Recall that even our automobile companies are having supply problems that
reduce production. Most of the design changes mentioned are accomplished or in progress
for months. And what are the "pretty wild performance claims"? My analysis before ordering
a Jeta found glider performance numbers to be very close to other new 15M gliders, and the
electric power performance numbers matched those from Schleicher, JS, etc.

US pilots interested in the Jeta should contact Tom Holloran, the US dealer, rather than
RAS (DUH!!! :^)
--
Eric Greenwell - USA
- "A Guide to Self-launching Sailplane Operation"
https://sites.google.com/site/motorgliders/publications/download-the-guide-1

--
Eric Greenwell - USA
- "A Guide to Self-launching Sailplane Operation"
https://sites.google.com/site/motorgliders/publications/download-the-guide-1

On Sunday, July 18, 2021 at 6:43:52 AM UTC-7, Eric Greenwell wrote:
> On 7/18/2021 12:14 AM, 2G wrote:
> > On Monday, July 5, 2021 at 7:48:30 AM UTC-7, kinsell wrote:
> >> On 7/5/21 8:16 AM, Nicholas Kennedy wrote:
> >>
> >>>
> >>> This thread started in 2017, a long time ago and there on #2?
> >>> Whoa, scary
> >>> Nick
> >>> T
> >>>
> >> Turns out they were dragging their heels waiting for the EASA 600kg
> >> MTOW ultralight (microlight) change to go into effect, which took longer
> >> than they expected. 600kg seems awfully heavy for a 15 meter glider,
> >> wonder if they can still selflaunch at that weight?
> >>
> >> SN002 doesn't have the recent design changes announced, new motor,new
> >> prop, bigger rudder. Seems like they're trying to be all things to all
> >> people, and not making anyone happy as a result. The F-35 of the glider
> >> world. Much like the SSA website?
> >>
> >> They were taking orders in 2015, with deliveries promised in 2016, but
> >> seem to have no ability to stabilize the design and actually start
> >> cranking them out. People are literally aging out of the sport waiting
> >> for their Jeta's to show up.
> >>
> >> Dave
> > Things have gone from very bad to much worse at GP Gliders. They released an email a week or so ago where they tried to blame the delays on EVERYTHING (covid, inflation, money printing, etc.) EXCEPT their own mismanagement. They listed an extensive list of "improvements" which includes everything in the glider! This includes:
> > -new wing
> > -new vertical stabilizer
> > -new horizontal stabilizer
> > -new propeller
> > -new motor
> > -new BRS
> > -new landing gear
> > -many other "improvements"
> > This will delay deliveries by 12-15 months, but expect that to be extended this fall. GP Gliders insists that these delays were not known just FOUR MONTHS ago - how the hell did they decide to redesign the ENTIRE glider in just the last few months??? My guess is that their prototype grossly missed meeting their pretty wild performance claims. GP no doubt has tested the prototype and is welcome to publish the results. Do I expect that to happen? OF COURSE NOT!
> >
> > They also complain about lost sales (DUH!!!). If I had a deposit down on this glider, and I don't, I would demand it back IMMEDIATELY!
> >
> > Tom
> I'm puzzled by the concern over GP deliveries by people that don't have one on order. The
> delay of 12-15 months was announced months ago and blamed primarily on the disruption
> caused by the pandemic. Not only was Poland hit hard, but so were component suppliers in
> other countries. Recall that even our automobile companies are having supply problems that
> reduce production. Most of the design changes mentioned are accomplished or in progress
> for months. And what are the "pretty wild performance claims"? My analysis before ordering
> a Jeta found glider performance numbers to be very close to other new 15M gliders, and the
> electric power performance numbers matched those from Schleicher, JS, etc..
>
> US pilots interested in the Jeta should contact Tom Holloran, the US dealer, rather than
> RAS (DUH!!! :^)
> --
> Eric Greenwell - USA
> - "A Guide to Self-launching Sailplane Operation"
> https://sites.google.com/site/motorgliders/publications/download-the-guide-1
>
>
> --
> Eric Greenwell - USA
> - "A Guide to Self-launching Sailplane Operation"
> https://sites.google.com/site/motorgliders/publications/download-the-guide-1

And you are not puzzled about why they are COMPLETELY redesigning the glider? I sure would be. And forgot about "12-15 months" - it will more likely be 2-3 YEARS. What went wrong with the prototype??? Your lack of concern about this is puzzling - I just don't like to see decent people getting scammed. I understand that you are all adults, but if I were in your shoes I would get my money back, PRONTO!

Tom

On Sunday, July 18, 2021 at 10:48:52 AM UTC-4, 2G wrote:

>> if I were in your shoes I would get my money back, PRONTO!

Has anyone tried to get their money back? Did they get it?

On 7/18/2021 8:48 AM, 2G wrote:
> I just don't like to see decent people getting scammed. I understand that you are all adults, but if I were in your shoes I would get my money back, PRONTO!

There is no scam going on, but starting a glider manufacturing company and bringing the
first glider to market is a difficult process in the best of times, and the pandemic
upended a lot plans. If I were you, I would have ordered an ASH31mi (which you did), but
I'm not you, and a larger, heavier, complex, and much more expensive glider (that ASH31mi)
than what I already have (ASH26E) is a poor choice for me. The GP15 promises a smaller,
lighter, simpler glider with similar unballasted performance to my 26E, substantially
better performance when ballasted, and significantly better powered climbs. The trade-off
is a smaller self-retrieve range, as we've discussed on RAS before.

--
Eric Greenwell - USA
- "A Guide to Self-launching Sailplane Operation"
https://sites.google.com/site/motorgliders/publications/download-the-guide-1

On Sunday, July 18, 2021 at 8:21:25 AM UTC-7, Eric Greenwell wrote:
> On 7/18/2021 8:48 AM, 2G wrote:
> > I just don't like to see decent people getting scammed. I understand that you are all adults, but if I were in your shoes I would get my money back, PRONTO!
> There is no scam going on, but starting a glider manufacturing company and bringing the
> first glider to market is a difficult process in the best of times, and the pandemic
> upended a lot plans. If I were you, I would have ordered an ASH31mi (which you did), but
> I'm not you, and a larger, heavier, complex, and much more expensive glider (that ASH31mi)
> than what I already have (ASH26E) is a poor choice for me. The GP15 promises a smaller,
> lighter, simpler glider with similar unballasted performance to my 26E, substantially
> better performance when ballasted, and significantly better powered climbs. The trade-off
> is a smaller self-retrieve range, as we've discussed on RAS before.
> --
> Eric Greenwell - USA
> - "A Guide to Self-launching Sailplane Operation"
> https://sites.google.com/site/motorgliders/publications/download-the-guide-1

The key word is "promises." GP has made PLENTY of promises and hasn't kept a single one. Eventually, you realize that their promises are worthless.

Tom

On 7/18/21 9:21 AM, Eric Greenwell wrote:
> The trade-off is a smaller self-retrieve range, as we've discussed on RAS before.
>

Another trade-off that you're overlooking is Tom has a nice new glider
that he can fly, and you've got an unverified spec sheet that you paid a
bunch of money for. The '31 isn't perfect, but it beats flying paper
airplanes.

On 7/19/2021 7:17 AM, kinsell wrote:
> On 7/18/21 9:21 AM, Eric Greenwell wrote:
>> The trade-off is a smaller self-retrieve range, as we've discussed on RAS before.
>>
>
> Another trade-off that you're overlooking is Tom has a nice new glider that he can fly,
> and you've got an unverified spec sheet that you paid a bunch of money for.  The '31 isn't
> perfect, but it beats flying paper airplanes.
>
I'm flying an ASH26E, not paper, and it doesn't matter who I order a glider from (I've
ordered four over the years), I don't sell what I have until the next one is sitting in
the driveway. Even my ASH26E was delayed a year from it's original expected delivery date.

--
Eric Greenwell - USA
- "A Guide to Self-launching Sailplane Operation"
https://sites.google.com/site/motorgliders/publications/download-the-guide-1

On Monday, July 19, 2021 at 10:34:33 AM UTC-4, Eric Greenwell wrote:
> On 7/19/2021 7:17 AM, kinsell wrote:
> > On 7/18/21 9:21 AM, Eric Greenwell wrote:
> >> The trade-off is a smaller self-retrieve range, as we've discussed on RAS before.
> >>
> >
> > Another trade-off that you're overlooking is Tom has a nice new glider that he can fly,
> > and you've got an unverified spec sheet that you paid a bunch of money for. The '31 isn't
> > perfect, but it beats flying paper airplanes.
> >
> I'm flying an ASH26E, not paper, and it doesn't matter who I order a glider from (I've
> ordered four over the years), I don't sell what I have until the next one is sitting in
> the driveway. Even my ASH26E was delayed a year from it's original expected delivery date.
> --
> Eric Greenwell - USA
> - "A Guide to Self-launching Sailplane Operation"
> https://sites.google.com/site/motorgliders/publications/download-the-guide-1

October of last year update from GP "GP 15 JETA final testing and tweaking".. That was their last update. Definitely brings a new meaning to words "final" and "tweaking". Eric, you can't compare Schleicher to Peszke. This company has had no experience in glider design and no experience in glider manufacturing. While Schleicher delayed the ASH-26E by a year, Peszke might delay forever, and now that they burned through your money the only thing left for you to do is to continue hoping. Ask yourself a question why would a company want a full payment so much in advance? The answer is to fund the development. This should have been a red flag and now the excuses keep piling up. Obviously the development/and manufacturing was unsuccessful. I doubt anyone is going to give them more money to complete the project. I keep wondering how many people like you there are. I feel terribly sorry for you and for others who got into this situation, but the sooner you write it off the better you will feel and be able to actually do something else that has more chances of success. The last note from Tom must have been devastating to read for his friend. I wish this never happened to anyone, terrible experience, absolutely terrible.

On 7/19/21 8:34 AM, Eric Greenwell wrote:
> On 7/19/2021 7:17 AM, kinsell wrote:
>> On 7/18/21 9:21 AM, Eric Greenwell wrote:
>>> The trade-off is a smaller self-retrieve range, as we've discussed on
>>> RAS before.
>>>
>>
>> Another trade-off that you're overlooking is Tom has a nice new glider
>> that he can fly, and you've got an unverified spec sheet that you paid
>> a bunch of money for.  The '31 isn't perfect, but it beats flying
>> paper airplanes.
>>
> I'm flying an ASH26E, not paper, and it doesn't matter who I order a
> glider from (I've ordered four over the years), I don't sell what I have
> until the next one is sitting in the driveway. Even my ASH26E was
> delayed a year from it's original expected delivery date.
>

Well it does actually matter who you order it from. From a reputable
vendor, you'll eventually get something for your money, it may not be as
timely as you'd like, there may be initial quality issues to address,
but at least you'll get something. In stark contrast to GPG.

Sorry to break this to you, but you're not getting a Jeta a year after
the contract date, not a year from today, probably not in this lifetime.
I've got other good friends who got sucked into this, perhaps you can
absorb the loss, but not everyone can write it off so easily.

GP has proven they can't design and can't manufacture high-performance
gliders. Either they're going to declare bankruptcy, or more
nefariously, just fold the tent, take the money, and run. These
continuous redesign cycles are making the second option look more likely
all the time.

-Dave

On Monday, July 19, 2021 at 6:53:35 PM UTC-7, kinsell wrote:
> On 7/19/21 8:34 AM, Eric Greenwell wrote:
> > On 7/19/2021 7:17 AM, kinsell wrote:
> >> On 7/18/21 9:21 AM, Eric Greenwell wrote:
> >>> The trade-off is a smaller self-retrieve range, as we've discussed on
> >>> RAS before.
> >>>
> >>
> >> Another trade-off that you're overlooking is Tom has a nice new glider
> >> that he can fly, and you've got an unverified spec sheet that you paid
> >> a bunch of money for. The '31 isn't perfect, but it beats flying
> >> paper airplanes.
> >>
> > I'm flying an ASH26E, not paper, and it doesn't matter who I order a
> > glider from (I've ordered four over the years), I don't sell what I have
> > until the next one is sitting in the driveway. Even my ASH26E was
> > delayed a year from it's original expected delivery date.
> >
> Well it does actually matter who you order it from. From a reputable
> vendor, you'll eventually get something for your money, it may not be as
> timely as you'd like, there may be initial quality issues to address,
> but at least you'll get something. In stark contrast to GPG.
>
> Sorry to break this to you, but you're not getting a Jeta a year after
> the contract date, not a year from today, probably not in this lifetime.
> I've got other good friends who got sucked into this, perhaps you can
> absorb the loss, but not everyone can write it off so easily.
>
> GP has proven they can't design and can't manufacture high-performance
> gliders. Either they're going to declare bankruptcy, or more
> nefariously, just fold the tent, take the money, and run. These
> continuous redesign cycles are making the second option look more likely
> all the time.
>
> -Dave

I have studied a number of scams and frauds over the years and there is a common thread that runs threw them: promise returns/performance/results that markedly beats the alternatives. And when time comes to deliver the goods just keep extending the delivery date. I personally was defrauded by such a scam in my more naïve days and I have NEVER forgotten the experience. And that only cost me a few thousand dollars, albeit much more considering inflation. GP has been checking ALL the boxes of a fraud. The best light one can put on it is that it might be unintentional, but that doesn't really matter (except in a criminal sense).

Tom

On Tuesday, July 20, 2021 at 1:03:59 PM UTC+10, 2G wrote:
> On Monday, July 19, 2021 at 6:53:35 PM UTC-7, kinsell wrote:
> > On 7/19/21 8:34 AM, Eric Greenwell wrote:
> > > On 7/19/2021 7:17 AM, kinsell wrote:
> > >> On 7/18/21 9:21 AM, Eric Greenwell wrote:
> > >>> The trade-off is a smaller self-retrieve range, as we've discussed on
> > >>> RAS before.
> > >>>
> > >>
> > >> Another trade-off that you're overlooking is Tom has a nice new glider
> > >> that he can fly, and you've got an unverified spec sheet that you paid
> > >> a bunch of money for. The '31 isn't perfect, but it beats flying
> > >> paper airplanes.
> > >>
> > > I'm flying an ASH26E, not paper, and it doesn't matter who I order a
> > > glider from (I've ordered four over the years), I don't sell what I have
> > > until the next one is sitting in the driveway. Even my ASH26E was
> > > delayed a year from it's original expected delivery date.
> > >
> > Well it does actually matter who you order it from. From a reputable
> > vendor, you'll eventually get something for your money, it may not be as
> > timely as you'd like, there may be initial quality issues to address,
> > but at least you'll get something. In stark contrast to GPG.
> >
> > Sorry to break this to you, but you're not getting a Jeta a year after
> > the contract date, not a year from today, probably not in this lifetime..
> > I've got other good friends who got sucked into this, perhaps you can
> > absorb the loss, but not everyone can write it off so easily.
> >
> > GP has proven they can't design and can't manufacture high-performance
> > gliders. Either they're going to declare bankruptcy, or more
> > nefariously, just fold the tent, take the money, and run. These
> > continuous redesign cycles are making the second option look more likely
> > all the time.
> >
> > -Dave
> I have studied a number of scams and frauds over the years and there is a common thread that runs threw them: promise returns/performance/results that markedly beats the alternatives. And when time comes to deliver the goods just keep extending the delivery date. I personally was defrauded by such a scam in my more naïve days and I have NEVER forgotten the experience. And that only cost me a few thousand dollars, albeit much more considering inflation. GP has been checking ALL the boxes of a fraud. The best light one can put on it is that it might be unintentional, but that doesn't really matter (except in a criminal sense).
>
> Tom

For anyone interested in ordering any new sailplane, most European companies are required to publish their financial history, balance sheets, activity statements/reports etc. For GP/Peszke S.C. you can actually see their order book in the activity statement. It makes it very easy to do due diligence against a company and make an informed decision as to whether you're rolling the dice on a hot new startup or an established company.

For Poland, you search at https://ekrs.ms.gov.pl/web/wyszukiwarka-krs/strona-glowna/index.html . I don't think they're a scam, but certainly, they are in the 'startup' category. I do hope they succeed and bring some more competition to the market.

On Monday, July 19, 2021 at 8:19:32 PM UTC-7, Matthew Scutter wrote:
> On Tuesday, July 20, 2021 at 1:03:59 PM UTC+10, 2G wrote:
> > On Monday, July 19, 2021 at 6:53:35 PM UTC-7, kinsell wrote:
> > > On 7/19/21 8:34 AM, Eric Greenwell wrote:
> > > > On 7/19/2021 7:17 AM, kinsell wrote:
> > > >> On 7/18/21 9:21 AM, Eric Greenwell wrote:
> > > >>> The trade-off is a smaller self-retrieve range, as we've discussed on
> > > >>> RAS before.
> > > >>>
> > > >>
> > > >> Another trade-off that you're overlooking is Tom has a nice new glider
> > > >> that he can fly, and you've got an unverified spec sheet that you paid
> > > >> a bunch of money for. The '31 isn't perfect, but it beats flying
> > > >> paper airplanes.
> > > >>
> > > > I'm flying an ASH26E, not paper, and it doesn't matter who I order a
> > > > glider from (I've ordered four over the years), I don't sell what I have
> > > > until the next one is sitting in the driveway. Even my ASH26E was
> > > > delayed a year from it's original expected delivery date.
> > > >
> > > Well it does actually matter who you order it from. From a reputable
> > > vendor, you'll eventually get something for your money, it may not be as
> > > timely as you'd like, there may be initial quality issues to address,
> > > but at least you'll get something. In stark contrast to GPG.
> > >
> > > Sorry to break this to you, but you're not getting a Jeta a year after
> > > the contract date, not a year from today, probably not in this lifetime.
> > > I've got other good friends who got sucked into this, perhaps you can
> > > absorb the loss, but not everyone can write it off so easily.
> > >
> > > GP has proven they can't design and can't manufacture high-performance
> > > gliders. Either they're going to declare bankruptcy, or more
> > > nefariously, just fold the tent, take the money, and run. These
> > > continuous redesign cycles are making the second option look more likely
> > > all the time.
> > >
> > > -Dave
> > I have studied a number of scams and frauds over the years and there is a common thread that runs threw them: promise returns/performance/results that markedly beats the alternatives. And when time comes to deliver the goods just keep extending the delivery date. I personally was defrauded by such a scam in my more naïve days and I have NEVER forgotten the experience. And that only cost me a few thousand dollars, albeit much more considering inflation. GP has been checking ALL the boxes of a fraud. The best light one can put on it is that it might be unintentional, but that doesn't really matter (except in a criminal sense).
> >
> > Tom
> For anyone interested in ordering any new sailplane, most European companies are required to publish their financial history, balance sheets, activity statements/reports etc. For GP/Peszke S.C. you can actually see their order book in the activity statement. It makes it very easy to do due diligence against a company and make an informed decision as to whether you're rolling the dice on a hot new startup or an established company.
>
> For Poland, you search at https://ekrs.ms.gov.pl/web/wyszukiwarka-krs/strona-glowna/index.html . I don't think they're a scam, but certainly, they are in the 'startup' category. I do hope they succeed and bring some more competition to the market.

That link might be helpful for someone that reads/writes Polish, but I don't so it isn't. And, as they say, hope is not a strategy and should not be the basis for making very significant financial decisions. Many - if not most - victims of scams hoped the outcome would be very different from what actually happened. Just watch the TV series American Greed on CNBC for a few shows to see examples of that.

Tom

On 7/19/21 9:19 PM, Matthew Scutter wrote:
> On Tuesday, July 20, 2021 at 1:03:59 PM UTC+10, 2G wrote:
>> On Monday, July 19, 2021 at 6:53:35 PM UTC-7, kinsell wrote:
>>> On 7/19/21 8:34 AM, Eric Greenwell wrote:
>>>> On 7/19/2021 7:17 AM, kinsell wrote:
>>>>> On 7/18/21 9:21 AM, Eric Greenwell wrote:
>>>>>> The trade-off is a smaller self-retrieve range, as we've discussed on
>>>>>> RAS before.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Another trade-off that you're overlooking is Tom has a nice new glider
>>>>> that he can fly, and you've got an unverified spec sheet that you paid
>>>>> a bunch of money for. The '31 isn't perfect, but it beats flying
>>>>> paper airplanes.
>>>>>
>>>> I'm flying an ASH26E, not paper, and it doesn't matter who I order a
>>>> glider from (I've ordered four over the years), I don't sell what I have
>>>> until the next one is sitting in the driveway. Even my ASH26E was
>>>> delayed a year from it's original expected delivery date.
>>>>
>>> Well it does actually matter who you order it from. From a reputable
>>> vendor, you'll eventually get something for your money, it may not be as
>>> timely as you'd like, there may be initial quality issues to address,
>>> but at least you'll get something. In stark contrast to GPG.
>>>
>>> Sorry to break this to you, but you're not getting a Jeta a year after
>>> the contract date, not a year from today, probably not in this lifetime.
>>> I've got other good friends who got sucked into this, perhaps you can
>>> absorb the loss, but not everyone can write it off so easily.
>>>
>>> GP has proven they can't design and can't manufacture high-performance
>>> gliders. Either they're going to declare bankruptcy, or more
>>> nefariously, just fold the tent, take the money, and run. These
>>> continuous redesign cycles are making the second option look more likely
>>> all the time.
>>>
>>> -Dave
>> I have studied a number of scams and frauds over the years and there is a common thread that runs threw them: promise returns/performance/results that markedly beats the alternatives. And when time comes to deliver the goods just keep extending the delivery date. I personally was defrauded by such a scam in my more naïve days and I have NEVER forgotten the experience. And that only cost me a few thousand dollars, albeit much more considering inflation. GP has been checking ALL the boxes of a fraud. The best light one can put on it is that it might be unintentional, but that doesn't really matter (except in a criminal sense).
>>
>> Tom
>
> For anyone interested in ordering any new sailplane, most European companies are required to publish their financial history, balance sheets, activity statements/reports etc. For GP/Peszke S.C. you can actually see their order book in the activity statement. It makes it very easy to do due diligence against a company and make an informed decision as to whether you're rolling the dice on a hot new startup or an established company.
>
> For Poland, you search at https://ekrs.ms.gov.pl/web/wyszukiwarka-krs/strona-glowna/index.html . I don't think they're a scam, but certainly, they are in the 'startup' category. I do hope they succeed and bring some more competition to the market.
>

Like Tom, I don't speak Polish either, so it's a bit hard to navigate.
Would it be possible to provide a direct link to the order book? I
think there might be some surprises there.

And yes, it would be great if this all works out in the end. The world
needs a glider like this, but it needs to be real, not a pipe dream.

Dave

Try putting the URL into Google Translate.

On 7/19/2021 5:47 PM, Andrzej Kobus wrote:
> On Monday, July 19, 2021 at 10:34:33 AM UTC-4, Eric Greenwell wrote:
>> On 7/19/2021 7:17 AM, kinsell wrote:
>>> On 7/18/21 9:21 AM, Eric Greenwell wrote:
>>>> The trade-off is a smaller self-retrieve range, as we've discussed on RAS before.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Another trade-off that you're overlooking is Tom has a nice new glider that he can fly,
>>> and you've got an unverified spec sheet that you paid a bunch of money for. The '31 isn't
>>> perfect, but it beats flying paper airplanes.
>>>
>> I'm flying an ASH26E, not paper, and it doesn't matter who I order a glider from (I've
>> ordered four over the years), I don't sell what I have until the next one is sitting in
>> the driveway. Even my ASH26E was delayed a year from it's original expected delivery date.
>> --
>> Eric Greenwell - USA
>> - "A Guide to Self-launching Sailplane Operation"
>> https://sites.google.com/site/motorgliders/publications/download-the-guide-1
>
> October of last year update from GP "GP 15 JETA final testing and tweaking". That was their last update. Definitely brings a new meaning to words "final" and "tweaking". Eric, you can't compare Schleicher to Peszke. This company has had no experience in glider design and no experience in glider manufacturing. While Schleicher delayed the ASH-26E by a year, Peszke might delay forever, and now that they burned through your money the only thing left for you to do is to continue hoping. Ask yourself a question why would a company want a full payment so much in advance? The answer is to fund the development. This should have been a red flag and now the excuses keep piling up. Obviously the development/and manufacturing was unsuccessful. I doubt anyone is going to give them more money to complete the project. I keep wondering how many people like you there are. I feel terribly sorry for you and for others who got into this situation, but the sooner you write it off the better you will feel and be able to actually do something else that has more chances of success. The last note from Tom must have been devastating to read for his friend. I wish this never happened to anyone, terrible experience, absolutely terrible.
>
There were three customer updates since Oct 2020. And yes, I can compare Schleicher to
Pezke (GP): GP offers the glider I want, Schleicher does not. To get a Jeta, I have to
order it from GP and accept the risk of non-delivery. To have any chance of getting it
while I still have a pilot's license, I chose to pay in full to get the "promotional
discount" and earlier delivery position. I can afford that risk, and that's why Tom's note
did not affect me, as I had already accepted the possibility of total loss before I placed
my order. Save your sorrow for my son, whose inheritance will be reduced if GP fails. That
is OK with him, as he already lives better than I do: newer house, newer cars, newer RV,
newer wife :^)
--
Eric Greenwell - USA
- "A Guide to Self-launching Sailplane Operation"
https://sites.google.com/site/motorgliders/publications/download-the-guide-1
--
Eric Greenwell - USA
- "A Guide to Self-launching Sailplane Operation"
https://sites.google.com/site/motorgliders/publications/download-the-guide-1