According to the following:

- Only time will tell whether rapid industrial and technological development fueled by modern scientific understanding was the correct direction to take; may be China took the right course rather than following the West in its mad dash to exploit the planet.

https://www.chinasage.info/needham-question.htm

> gggg gggg
>
> According to the following:
>
> - Only time will tell whether rapid industrial and technological development fueled by modern scientific understanding
> was the correct direction to take; may be China took the right course rather than following the West in its mad dash to
> exploit the planet.
>
> https://www.chinasage.info/needham-question.htm

I didn't bother clicking on the link, post the relevant text in this thread if you want us to read it, but I'd say China
is now on a mad dash to exploit the planet and they don't give a single shit about how they do it, as long as it
makes them a profit.

It's the West that invented the concepts of conservation and environmentalism and it's the West that is doing
the most to promote these concepts. If the shoe had been on the other foot, China (and the third world) would
have burned the planet to a cinder a long time ago.

On Monday, April 10, 2023 at 12:18:13 PM UTC-7, Ed Stasiak wrote:
> >
> >
> > According to the following:
> >
> > - Only time will tell whether rapid industrial and technological development fueled by modern scientific understanding
> > was the correct direction to take; may be China took the right course rather than following the West in its mad dash to
> > exploit the planet.
> >
> > https://www.chinasage.info/needham-question.htm
> I didn't bother clicking on the link, post the relevant text in this thread if you want us to read it, but I'd say China
> is now on a mad dash to exploit the planet and they don't give a single shit about how they do it, as long as it
> makes them a profit.
>
> It's the West that invented the concepts of conservation and environmentalism and it's the West that is doing
> the most to promote these concepts. If the shoe had been on the other foot, China (and the third world) would
> have burned the planet to a cinder a long time ago.

According to the 1992 book "China: A New History" by John King Fairbank:

- [The] disparaging judgment [that Ming China almost purposely missed the boat of modern technological and economic development] comes out of the context of the late twentieth-century, when technology and growth have created innumerable disorders in all aspects of life all over the world without disclosing as yet the principles of order that may postpone the destruction of human civilization. In time the self-contained growth of Ming China with its comparable peace and well-being may be admired by historians, who may see a sort of success where today we see failure.

https://books.google.com/books?id=nBDC2cqb6I0C&pg=PA139&dq=%22disparaging+judgment+comes+out+of+the+context%22&hl=en&newbks=1&newbks_redir=0&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiB9JO6taD-AhWYJUQIHScYB8cQ6AF6BAgIEAI#v=onepage&q=%22disparaging%20judgment%20comes%20out%20of%20the%20context%22&f=false

> gggg gggg
> > Ed Stasiak
> >
> > It's the West that invented the concepts of conservation and environmentalism and it's the West that is doing
> > the most to promote these concepts. If the shoe had been on the other foot, China (and the third world) would
> > have burned the planet to a cinder a long time ago.
>
> According to the 1992 book "China: A New History" by John King Fairbank:
>
> - [The] disparaging judgment [that Ming China almost purposely missed the boat of modern technological and
> economic development] comes out of the context of the late twentieth-century, when technology and growth
> have created innumerable disorders in all aspects of life all over the world without disclosing as yet the principles
> of order that may postpone the destruction of human civilization.

Was listening to a bit of the Dan Bongino(sp?) radio show today and he was talking about a guy who wrote
a book about AI (artificial intelligence) who is saying we're on the road to human extinction (and maybe all
life on Earth) by doing what humans usually do; invent some cool technology without thinking and planning
for the consequences.

> In time the self-contained growth of Ming China with its comparable peace and well-being may be admired by
> historians, who may see a sort of success where today we see failure.

Sure, as long as you weren't a mud-farming peasant.

On Tuesday, April 11, 2023 at 11:50:14 AM UTC-7, Ed Stasiak wrote:
> > gggg gggg
> > > Ed Stasiak
> > >
> > > It's the West that invented the concepts of conservation and environmentalism and it's the West that is doing
> > > the most to promote these concepts. If the shoe had been on the other foot, China (and the third world) would
> > > have burned the planet to a cinder a long time ago.
> >
> > According to the 1992 book "China: A New History" by John King Fairbank:
> >
> > - [The] disparaging judgment [that Ming China almost purposely missed the boat of modern technological and
> > economic development] comes out of the context of the late twentieth-century, when technology and growth
> > have created innumerable disorders in all aspects of life all over the world without disclosing as yet the principles
> > of order that may postpone the destruction of human civilization.
> Was listening to a bit of the Dan Bongino(sp?) radio show today and he was talking about a guy who wrote
> a book about AI (artificial intelligence) who is saying we're on the road to human extinction (and maybe all
> life on Earth) by doing what humans usually do; invent some cool technology without thinking and planning
> for the consequences.
> > In time the self-contained growth of Ming China with its comparable peace and well-being may be admired by
> > historians, who may see a sort of success where today we see failure.
> Sure, as long as you weren't a mud-farming peasant.

Ever heard of FUTURE SHOCK?:

https://www.google.com/search?q=definition+of+future+shock&source=hp&ei=swo2ZNHLApb8kPIP9bSfgA4&iflsig=AOEireoAAAAAZDYYw0SZr6V8KDj9sF-iCzICVEJrtWPp&ved=0ahUKEwiR8YnmmaP-AhUWPkQIHXXaB-AQ4dUDCAs&uact=5&oq=definition+of+future+shock&gs_lcp=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&sclient=gws-wiz

On Monday, April 10, 2023 at 4:02:16 PM UTC-7, gggg gggg wrote:
> On Monday, April 10, 2023 at 12:18:13 PM UTC-7, Ed Stasiak wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > > According to the following:
> > >
> > > - Only time will tell whether rapid industrial and technological development fueled by modern scientific understanding
> > > was the correct direction to take; may be China took the right course rather than following the West in its mad dash to
> > > exploit the planet.
> > >
> > > https://www.chinasage.info/needham-question.htm
> > I didn't bother clicking on the link, post the relevant text in this thread if you want us to read it, but I'd say China
> > is now on a mad dash to exploit the planet and they don't give a single shit about how they do it, as long as it
> > makes them a profit.
> >
> > It's the West that invented the concepts of conservation and environmentalism and it's the West that is doing
> > the most to promote these concepts. If the shoe had been on the other foot, China (and the third world) would
> > have burned the planet to a cinder a long time ago.
> According to the 1992 book "China: A New History" by John King Fairbank:
>
> - [The] disparaging judgment [that Ming China almost purposely missed the boat of modern technological and economic development] comes out of the context of the late twentieth-century, when technology and growth have created innumerable disorders in all aspects of life all over the world without disclosing as yet the principles of order that may postpone the destruction of human civilization. In time the self-contained growth of Ming China with its comparable peace and well-being may be admired by historians, who may see a sort of success where today we see failure.
>
> https://books.google.com/books?id=nBDC2cqb6I0C&pg=PA139&dq=%22disparaging+judgment+comes+out+of+the+context%22&hl=en&newbks=1&newbks_redir=0&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiB9JO6taD-AhWYJUQIHScYB8cQ6AF6BAgIEAI#v=onepage&q=%22disparaging%20judgment%20comes%20out%20of%20the%20context%22&f=false

That quote is also found in the following article:

https://countercurrents.org/ikehara180516.htm

If the past helps inform about the future, human extinction is in doubt. There are too many specimen all over the place for us to be completely eradicated. When numbers were MUCH smaller, humanity and the mammals that preceded it, made it through incredibly tough times, horrifying extinctions due to impacts from space, oceans of magma polluting the air, deadly radiation when the ozone layer dissipated, not to mention surviving predators many times our size and strength. There is only one conclusion: We are...

HARD TO KILL

Just when evolution is still reacting to our bipedalism, by deeming toes unnecessary, since we no longer live in trees (notice how the human little toe is on its way out), now evolution realizes our legs are also pretty much unnecessary, so legs are going the way of the little toe as well: atrophy. But for now we are still upper-Paleolithic hunter-gatherers, and need to exercise. But it will cease to be the case eventually.
In thousands of years, therefore, our body will, again, adapt to the environment, if it has time. With change so rapid, there is a disconnect between rapid changes of environment and slow adaptations to it. This may be a problem putting us in environment poorly suited to our bodies and minds. But for that we have our human adaptations. When biology needs to be restricted, we invent psychological measures, for example, morality, laws, rules, etc., which ride on the back of biology. And like other human-made beliefs needs to be reinforced constantly, because they are not natural but contrived mental figments.

I believe there will be times of great dying due to war, lack of resources, or natural disasters, but unless the whole Earth becomes abiotic due harsh conditions everywhere, which is a SMALL probability, we are here to stay.

I cannot see how our intelligence can stop improving completely, so, relative to now, we are really on our way to become gods.

On Friday, April 14, 2023 at 12:47:21 PM UTC-7, Tiglath wrote:
> If the past helps inform about the future, human extinction is in doubt. There are too many specimen all over the place for us to be completely eradicated. When numbers were MUCH smaller, humanity and the mammals that preceded it, made it through incredibly tough times, horrifying extinctions due to impacts from space, oceans of magma polluting the air, deadly radiation when the ozone layer dissipated, not to mention surviving predators many times our size and strength. There is only one conclusion: We are...
>
> HARD TO KILL
>
> Just when evolution is still reacting to our bipedalism, by deeming toes unnecessary, since we no longer live in trees (notice how the human little toe is on its way out), now evolution realizes our legs are also pretty much unnecessary, so legs are going the way of the little toe as well: atrophy.. But for now we are still upper-Paleolithic hunter-gatherers, and need to exercise. But it will cease to be the case eventually.
> In thousands of years, therefore, our body will, again, adapt to the environment, if it has time. With change so rapid, there is a disconnect between rapid changes of environment and slow adaptations to it. This may be a problem putting us in environment poorly suited to our bodies and minds. But for that we have our human adaptations. When biology needs to be restricted, we invent psychological measures, for example, morality, laws, rules, etc.., which ride on the back of biology. And like other human-made beliefs needs to be reinforced constantly, because they are not natural but contrived mental figments.
>
> I believe there will be times of great dying due to war, lack of resources, or natural disasters, but unless the whole Earth becomes abiotic due harsh conditions everywhere, which is a SMALL probability, we are here to stay..
>
> I cannot see how our intelligence can stop improving completely, so, relative to now, we are really on our way to become gods.

Have you ever seen the movie FORBIDDEN PLANET?:

https://books.google.com/books?id=NN9NF19EsF8C&pg=PA146&dq=%22forbidden+planet%22+%22we+are+after+all+not+god%22&hl=en&newbks=1&newbks_redir=0&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjp3q_pvKr-AhXRJ0QIHVAmCb4Q6AF6BAgEEAI#v=onepage&q=%22forbidden%20planet%22%20%22we%20are%20after%20all%20not%20god%22&f=false

On Friday, April 14, 2023 at 12:47:21 PM UTC-7, Tiglath wrote:
> If the past helps inform about the future, human extinction is in doubt. There are too many specimen all over the place for us to be completely eradicated. When numbers were MUCH smaller, humanity and the mammals that preceded it, made it through incredibly tough times, horrifying extinctions due to impacts from space, oceans of magma polluting the air, deadly radiation when the ozone layer dissipated, not to mention surviving predators many times our size and strength. There is only one conclusion: We are...
>
> HARD TO KILL
>
> Just when evolution is still reacting to our bipedalism, by deeming toes unnecessary, since we no longer live in trees (notice how the human little toe is on its way out), now evolution realizes our legs are also pretty much unnecessary, so legs are going the way of the little toe as well: atrophy.. But for now we are still upper-Paleolithic hunter-gatherers, and need to exercise. But it will cease to be the case eventually.
> In thousands of years, therefore, our body will, again, adapt to the environment, if it has time. With change so rapid, there is a disconnect between rapid changes of environment and slow adaptations to it. This may be a problem putting us in environment poorly suited to our bodies and minds. But for that we have our human adaptations. When biology needs to be restricted, we invent psychological measures, for example, morality, laws, rules, etc.., which ride on the back of biology. And like other human-made beliefs needs to be reinforced constantly, because they are not natural but contrived mental figments.
>
> I believe there will be times of great dying due to war, lack of resources, or natural disasters, but unless the whole Earth becomes abiotic due harsh conditions everywhere, which is a SMALL probability, we are here to stay..
>
> I cannot see how our intelligence can stop improving completely, so, relative to now, we are really on our way to become gods.

Concerning the comment "I believe there will be times of great dying due to war, lack of resources, or natural disasters, but unless the whole Earth becomes abiotic due harsh conditions everywhere, which is a SMALL probability, we are here to stay", what about "global pollution"?:

https://news.google.com/search?q=%22global%20pollution%22&hl=en-US&gl=US&ceid=US%3Aen

On Friday, April 14, 2023 at 12:47:21 PM UTC-7, Tiglath wrote:
> If the past helps inform about the future, human extinction is in doubt. There are too many specimen all over the place for us to be completely eradicated. When numbers were MUCH smaller, humanity and the mammals that preceded it, made it through incredibly tough times, horrifying extinctions due to impacts from space, oceans of magma polluting the air, deadly radiation when the ozone layer dissipated, not to mention surviving predators many times our size and strength. There is only one conclusion: We are...
>
> HARD TO KILL
>
> Just when evolution is still reacting to our bipedalism, by deeming toes unnecessary, since we no longer live in trees (notice how the human little toe is on its way out), now evolution realizes our legs are also pretty much unnecessary, so legs are going the way of the little toe as well: atrophy.. But for now we are still upper-Paleolithic hunter-gatherers, and need to exercise. But it will cease to be the case eventually.
> In thousands of years, therefore, our body will, again, adapt to the environment, if it has time. With change so rapid, there is a disconnect between rapid changes of environment and slow adaptations to it. This may be a problem putting us in environment poorly suited to our bodies and minds. But for that we have our human adaptations. When biology needs to be restricted, we invent psychological measures, for example, morality, laws, rules, etc.., which ride on the back of biology. And like other human-made beliefs needs to be reinforced constantly, because they are not natural but contrived mental figments.
>
> I believe there will be times of great dying due to war, lack of resources, or natural disasters, but unless the whole Earth becomes abiotic due harsh conditions everywhere, which is a SMALL probability, we are here to stay..
>
> I cannot see how our intelligence can stop improving completely, so, relative to now, we are really on our way to become gods.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BqF28KiD-Hc