A couple, their baby and their dog were found dead while hiking in California this past summer. It was thought they had drunk water from a river with toxic algae bloom, but this was not the cause - they had died of dehydration. They went on an 8 mile hike with just one Camelback of water (84 oz). The temperatures on their hike hit 109° F. They got within a mile and a half of their car when they collapsed.
https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/davidmack/california-hiking-family-died-heat-gerrish-chung

This demonstrates how much water you will need if you landout.

Tom

Those guys were obviously NOT glider pilots, if so, they would have checked the weather.
With no shade, carrying a baby and 109f, your not going to make it far no matter how much water you have, unless you got like 20 gals to pour over your head and body, every 1/4 mile.
So sad, reminds me of the German family that disappeared in Death Valley a few years back, goggle that incident to make your hair stand on end.
Tom has beat the drum on the landout kit needs in the Great Basin, Its a real serious thing to have together and having a good plan to execute, if your day, and maybe night goes poorly.
When Dave Lessnick crashed late day out of Tonopah, he could have easily perished, saved by a local County Mountie who saw his strobe light, just as things were looking really grim for Mr. Lessnick.
Nick
T

> ... they had died of dehydration.

The article says "hyperthermia and possible dehydration", and mentions they'd walked about 5 miles, in an area with little shade available.

So the lessons for pilots who outland in hot, remote areas include:
- Don't undertake a walk you can't easily complete
- Make use of shade provided by wings (or possibly parachute)
- Have a way of calling for help (ELT / InReach / Radio on 121.5)
- Have enough water

On Sunday, October 24, 2021 at 9:23:38 AM UTC-7, John Good wrote:
> > ... they had died of dehydration.
>
> The article says "hyperthermia and possible dehydration", and mentions they'd walked about 5 miles, in an area with little shade available.
>
> So the lessons for pilots who outland in hot, remote areas include:
> - Don't undertake a walk you can't easily complete
> - Make use of shade provided by wings (or possibly parachute)
> - Have a way of calling for help (ELT / InReach / Radio on 121.5)
> - Have enough water

The last item, have enough water, is the glider pilot's Achille's heel - it is just very hard to carry enough water in the tight confines of a glider cockpit. I would consider some way of filling a collapsible bag from the glider's wing ballast tanks.

The takeaway of this tragedy is the short distance this couple made from the water they had: six miles in the Nevada desert wouldn't even get you to the middle of the valley. A better option is to stay with the glider and seek, or wait, for help. I wouldn't even consider flying in this area without a satellite messenger or PLB (cell phones are next to useless). And even if you fly in more hospitable area your mobility can be compromised by an injury during, or after, landing. It is also vital that you have someone that is checking your status. You could even file a flight plan if you are totally on your own.

Tom

Those Mariposa parents and the parents in the story below get a F in the parenting dept.
109f No shade and a baby? Come on, really? Obviously they weren't pilots, they would have checked the weather if they had been, another reason to pick up soaring.

Long read below but well written and interesting

https://www.otherhand.org/home-page/search-and-rescue/the-hunt-for-the-death-valley-germans/

Nick
T

The Other Hand guy also has a GREAT read about his search for the early Oxcart pre SR71 crashsite NE of Vegas under the Area 51 heading.

On Sunday, October 24, 2021 at 5:51:43 PM UTC-7, nickkennedy...@gmail.com wrote:
> Those Mariposa parents and the parents in the story below get a F in the parenting dept.
> 109f No shade and a baby? Come on, really? Obviously they weren't pilots, they would have checked the weather if they had been, another reason to pick up soaring.
>
> Long read below but well written and interesting
>
> https://www.otherhand.org/home-page/search-and-rescue/the-hunt-for-the-death-valley-germans/
>
> Nick
> T
>
> The Other Hand guy also has a GREAT read about his search for the early Oxcart pre SR71 crashsite NE of Vegas under the Area 51 heading.

The Mariposa's were experienced hikers, unlike the Germans you referenced. I really don't know why you put that tragedy into this thread. My point was, and still is, to point out how much water you need to survive in the desert, and how incredibly short distances you can travel w/o it.

Here is the Cliff Notes version of the German's fiasco:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_Valley_Germans

Tom

Better to be out of the sun of course, but the hot ground under the wing is still going to bake you with radiant heat. Might pack a 'space blanket' to sit on.

On Monday, October 25, 2021 at 7:39:18 AM UTC-6, son_of_flubber wrote:
> Better to be out of the sun of course, but the hot ground under the wing is still going to bake you with radiant heat. Might pack a 'space blanket' to sit on.

You need more than a space blanket. The thin Mylar conducts heat very well. Desert survival training stresses that daytime air temperatures are as much as thirty degrees lower than the temperature of the ground, as little a a foot above the surface. You need to worry about direct convective heat transfer from the ground as opposed to radiant heat. That comes from the big orange ball in the sky. Use the space blanket for shade. It's also reflective and can help aerial rescuers spot you.