I hope that everyone has a great New Year in 2022. With the whole Covid situation, we can only hope that this coming year is not worse than 2021 or 2020 with regard to what is happening.

My request for RAS.

Do you guys think that for my benefit, and others benefit, the unproductive bickering could be put on hold? PLEASE?
I realize that there is bad history between some of you, both online and probably in person as well. I honestly believe that people most likely to argue are people most similar in a lot of ways. Try find the common ground, you know, like..... love of flying?

There is a lot of great info here. It is valuable to the newbies, but it is painful to watch prominent folks in a small community bicker.
It is unbecoming.

Thanks for reading this.

On Friday, December 31, 2021 at 10:37:16 AM UTC-7, Chris Behm wrote:
> I hope that everyone has a great New Year in 2022. With the whole Covid situation, we can only hope that this coming year is not worse than 2021 or 2020 with regard to what is happening.
>
> My request for RAS.
>
> Do you guys think that for my benefit, and others benefit, the unproductive bickering could be put on hold? PLEASE?
> I realize that there is bad history between some of you, both online and probably in person as well. I honestly believe that people most likely to argue are people most similar in a lot of ways. Try find the common ground, you know, like..... love of flying?
>
> There is a lot of great info here. It is valuable to the newbies, but it is painful to watch prominent folks in a small community bicker.
> It is unbecoming.
>
> Thanks for reading this.

I very much agree with this. I've stopped reading RAS for some time now, because of this very issue. Thanks, Target.

Bravo!

One idea might be to completely boycott every single discussion that shows a hint of trolling or bickering. And, on the off chance that such a discussion subject could provide useful information, perhaps start a separate discussion on that subject. If the trolls and the bickerers engage in that new discussion, then they are revealed for what they are.

Or, where are the moderators and why can’t the trolling/bickering posts be deleted? I am not being critical of the moderators, I just am asking, there may be rules or policies which require that the bickering posts be retained.

Cheers,
Jim J6

On Friday, December 31, 2021 at 11:37:16 AM UTC-6, Chris Behm wrote:
> I hope that everyone has a great New Year in 2022. With the whole Covid situation, we can only hope that this coming year is not worse than 2021 or 2020 with regard to what is happening.
>
> My request for RAS.
>
> Do you guys think that for my benefit, and others benefit, the unproductive bickering could be put on hold? PLEASE?
> I realize that there is bad history between some of you, both online and probably in person as well. I honestly believe that people most likely to argue are people most similar in a lot of ways. Try find the common ground, you know, like..... love of flying?
>
> There is a lot of great info here. It is valuable to the newbies, but it is painful to watch prominent folks in a small community bicker.
> It is unbecoming.
>
> Thanks for reading this.

I do not believe Google groups are moderated.
R

On Friday, December 31, 2021 at 1:33:54 PM UTC-8, R wrote:
> I do not believe Google groups are moderated.
> R
That is correct. It is up to us all to "self moderate"
HNY, Henry.

Kind Regards,
Chris Behm, AKA "Target"

On 12/31/21 2:48 PM, Chris Behm wrote:
> On Friday, December 31, 2021 at 1:33:54 PM UTC-8, R wrote:
>> I do not believe Google groups are moderated.
>> R
> That is correct. It is up to us all to "self moderate"
> HNY, Henry.
>
> Kind Regards,
> Chris Behm, AKA "Target"
>

Actually, Google Group owners can moderate messages if they want.
There's no owner for this group however. Do you know why? Because it's
not a Google group!!! Really.

If somebody wants to set up a new group and moderate it, go for it. I
just put offenders in my kill file, works great. I do wish people would
stop responding to the flame baiters, it increases the workload.

On 12/31/2021 1:12 PM, Airport Bum wrote:
> Bravo!
>
> One idea might be to completely boycott every single discussion that shows a hint of trolling or bickering. And, on the off chance that such a discussion subject could provide useful information, perhaps start a separate discussion on that subject. If the trolls and the bickerers engage in that new discussion, then they are revealed for what they are.
>
> Or, where are the moderators and why can’t the trolling/bickering posts be deleted? I am not being critical of the moderators, I just am asking, there may be rules or policies which require that the bickering posts be retained.
>
> Cheers,
> Jim J6

RAS exists on Usenet: "Usenet (/ˈjuːznɛt/) is a worldwide distributed discussion system
available on computers. It was developed from the general-purpose Unix-to-Unix Copy (UUCP)
dial-up network architecture. Tom Truscott and Jim Ellis conceived the idea in 1979, and
it was established in 1980.[1] Users read and post messages (called articles or posts, and
collectively termed news) to one or more categories, known as newsgroups. Usenet resembles
a bulletin board system (BBS) in many respects and is the precursor to Internet forums
that became widely used. Discussions are threaded, as with web forums and BBSs, though
posts are stored on the server sequentially.[2][3]"

For more details: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usenet

--
Eric Greenwell - USA
- "A Guide to Self-launching Sailplane Operation"
https://sites.google.com/site/motorgliders/publications

I have been thinking about this exact topic for several years.

RAS (rec.aviation.soaring) Usenet groups have an Achilles heal that anyone can say anything and can't be silenced - it was born that way in the early utopian days of the Internet. Thus the reason that we get spam from textbook vendors and incoherent tirades from a Canadian fool. Most Usenet groups simply disappear and move away for just these reasons.

So moving RAS to a true (non-Usenet) Google Group is a clear option. And we would NOT loose the access to the historical repository of RAS as it would remain available.

A Google Group, and the alternative systems, has many (optional) key benefits;

- New users could be approved before they can post. This might be a maintenance issue so I feel that allowing anyone to join is better thus...
- Users can be terminated for breaking the "rules" - whatever those might be.
- The forum can be moderated. But I feel that it is better to remove offending messages instead.
- Unlike Usenet YOU CAN POST images and files!!
- Reading and replying via email.
- Integration with the Google universe of applications

I worry that RAS in its current form will loose membership due to many factors. And I have thought hard about how to move RAS into a new future.

Towards these ends I created a new Google Group about a year ago called "RAS_Prime" (https://groups.google.com/g/rasprime). It is currently just a shell and not open for business but has great potential.

What is needed now is a committee to form and determine how, or if, to proceed and in what direction. Maybe Google is not the answer. I am willing to host this committee's efforts to get it off the ground. I feel that committees should be kept small to be most effective. Members should be willing to actively suggest and work, and not to just sit and listen. If you are really interesting in helping please drop me a line.

Thanks,
John DeRosa (OHM)
john <<<at>>> derosaweb dot com

On Saturday, January 1, 2022 at 2:25:15 AM UTC-5, John DeRosa OHM Ω http://aviation.derosaweb.net wrote:
> I have been thinking about this exact topic for several years.
>
> RAS (rec.aviation.soaring) Usenet groups have an Achilles heal that anyone can say anything and can't be silenced - it was born that way in the early utopian days of the Internet. Thus the reason that we get spam from textbook vendors and incoherent tirades from a Canadian fool. Most Usenet groups simply disappear and move away for just these reasons.
>
> So moving RAS to a true (non-Usenet) Google Group is a clear option. And we would NOT loose the access to the historical repository of RAS as it would remain available.
>
> A Google Group, and the alternative systems, has many (optional) key benefits;
>
> - New users could be approved before they can post. This might be a maintenance issue so I feel that allowing anyone to join is better thus...
> - Users can be terminated for breaking the "rules" - whatever those might be.
> - The forum can be moderated. But I feel that it is better to remove offending messages instead.
> - Unlike Usenet YOU CAN POST images and files!!
> - Reading and replying via email.
> - Integration with the Google universe of applications
>
> I worry that RAS in its current form will loose membership due to many factors. And I have thought hard about how to move RAS into a new future.
>
> Towards these ends I created a new Google Group about a year ago called "RAS_Prime" (https://groups.google.com/g/rasprime). It is currently just a shell and not open for business but has great potential.
>
> What is needed now is a committee to form and determine how, or if, to proceed and in what direction. Maybe Google is not the answer. I am willing to host this committee's efforts to get it off the ground. I feel that committees should be kept small to be most effective. Members should be willing to actively suggest and work, and not to just sit and listen. If you are really interesting in helping please drop me a line.
>
> Thanks,
> John DeRosa (OHM)
> john <<<at>>> derosaweb dot com

I have often wondered why hasn't SSA developed a moderated forum for glider pilots. Just think of the possibilities.

We could have an open forums for soaring technique, events and contests and maintenance issues for all sailplanes. All this information could be in one place where we can limit membership and dicipline bad behavior.

Just my thoughts

On Fri, 31 Dec 2021 23:25:13 -0800 (PST), John DeRosa OHM Ω
http://aviation.derosaweb.net wrote:

> I worry that RAS in its current form will loose membership due to many
> factors. And I have thought hard about how to move RAS into a new
> future.
>
> Towards these ends I created a new Google Group about a year ago called
> "RAS_Prime" (https://groups.google.com/g/rasprime). It is currently
> just a shell and not open for business but has great potential.
>
Well, if the replacement turns out to be anything belonging to Google or
FarceBork I, for one, will not join.

r.a.s as currently implemented via the NNTP network works well worldwide.
If you want to block any posters you don't like, get off your duff,
install and use a proper newsreader such as Pan, Forte Agent, Firebird,
etc rather than relying on a rather old HTMP-based website that Google
bought and barely maintains. Any newsreader application will give you a
better browsing experience than the Google NNTP website.

Bearing in mind that R.A.S has worldwide membership, another option would
be to set up a closed mailing list which would require people to join it
before they can post or read the list, and its moderator(s) would have
the power to expel people who behave badly and/or spam the list. A big
benefit of mailing lasts is that they can and do use anti-spam software
such as SpamAssassin to automatically reject spam.

Another possibility would to use a web forum, but these *must* be
moderated; something which can easily turn into a full-time job because
web forums tend to be spam magnets and moderating them can turn into a
full-time job. How do I know this? Because in the past I've been a member
of various web forums and now only use them if there is no alternative.

On 1/1/2022 7:14 AM, Martin Gregorie wrote:
> r.a.s as currently implemented via the NNTP network works well worldwide.
> If you want to block any posters you don't like, get off your duff,
> install and use a proper newsreader such as Pan, Forte Agent, Firebird,
> etc rather than relying on a rather old HTMP-based website that Google
> bought and barely maintains. Any newsreader application will give you a
> better browsing experience than the Google NNTP website.

What Martin says! In fact, if you are using your email program to read RAS, you may
already be able to ignore threads ("K" does it for me with Thunderbird), and filter out
undesirables (I block "daryl penis" and "solution manual").

To elaborate a bit: I "K" many threads that don't interest me, even though the thread is
civil, just so they don't clutter my Usenet inbox. I also "show only threads with unread
messages", so I also don't see threads I'm interested in but don't have any new postings.
Some days, I have only one thread show up for reading. Very tidy.

--
Eric Greenwell - USA
- "A Guide to Self-launching Sailplane Operation"
https://sites.google.com/site/motorgliders/publications

On Saturday, January 1, 2022 at 12:25:15 AM UTC-7, John DeRosa OHM Ω http://aviation.derosaweb.net wrote:
> I have been thinking about this exact topic for several years.
>
> RAS (rec.aviation.soaring) Usenet groups have an Achilles heal that anyone can say anything and can't be silenced - it was born that way in the early utopian days of the Internet. Thus the reason that we get spam from textbook vendors and incoherent tirades from a Canadian fool. Most Usenet groups simply disappear and move away for just these reasons.
>
> So moving RAS to a true (non-Usenet) Google Group is a clear option. And we would NOT loose the access to the historical repository of RAS as it would remain available.
>
> A Google Group, and the alternative systems, has many (optional) key benefits;
>
> - New users could be approved before they can post. This might be a maintenance issue so I feel that allowing anyone to join is better thus...
> - Users can be terminated for breaking the "rules" - whatever those might be.
> - The forum can be moderated. But I feel that it is better to remove offending messages instead.
> - Unlike Usenet YOU CAN POST images and files!!
> - Reading and replying via email.
> - Integration with the Google universe of applications
>
> I worry that RAS in its current form will loose membership due to many factors. And I have thought hard about how to move RAS into a new future.
>
> Towards these ends I created a new Google Group about a year ago called "RAS_Prime" (https://groups.google.com/g/rasprime). It is currently just a shell and not open for business but has great potential.
>
> What is needed now is a committee to form and determine how, or if, to proceed and in what direction. Maybe Google is not the answer. I am willing to host this committee's efforts to get it off the ground. I feel that committees should be kept small to be most effective. Members should be willing to actively suggest and work, and not to just sit and listen. If you are really interesting in helping please drop me a line.
>
> Thanks,
> John DeRosa (OHM)
> john <<<at>>> derosaweb dot com
Remember SilentFlight.com? Al said he'd keep the archives available. It was quite popular, but servers do have a cost. The SSA has a private chapter group and to date only one poster has been expelled. At one time, rec.aviation.homebuilt was a wonderful USENET group filled with intelligent, thoughtful, and helpful members. A double PhD named Wild Bill Phillips, a glider pilot among other things, ruined it virtually single-handed, before he perished, and critically injured his wife, in the crash of his Lancair Legacy during a Parowan glider camp. That aviation group has never recovered. There are some around aviation that just seem to need to unleash online, yet are quite the opposite in person. Others maybe are the same way in person, hard to way. They seem to think their acerbic wit is clever where it's not appreciated. Best to just not feed the trolls. There are quite a few that read RAS and don't post or when they do, it still surprises me when they do. I think we might lose more than we gain with a moderated private group. Just don't feed the trolls, though some just can't resist that either..

Frank

On Saturday, January 1, 2022 at 5:54:25 AM UTC-7, Rakel wrote:
> On Saturday, January 1, 2022 at 2:25:15 AM UTC-5, John DeRosa OHM Ω http://aviation.derosaweb.net wrote:
> > I have been thinking about this exact topic for several years.
> >
> > RAS (rec.aviation.soaring) Usenet groups have an Achilles heal that anyone can say anything and can't be silenced - it was born that way in the early utopian days of the Internet. Thus the reason that we get spam from textbook vendors and incoherent tirades from a Canadian fool. Most Usenet groups simply disappear and move away for just these reasons.
> >
> > So moving RAS to a true (non-Usenet) Google Group is a clear option. And we would NOT loose the access to the historical repository of RAS as it would remain available.
> >
> > A Google Group, and the alternative systems, has many (optional) key benefits;
> >
> > - New users could be approved before they can post. This might be a maintenance issue so I feel that allowing anyone to join is better thus...
> > - Users can be terminated for breaking the "rules" - whatever those might be.
> > - The forum can be moderated. But I feel that it is better to remove offending messages instead.
> > - Unlike Usenet YOU CAN POST images and files!!
> > - Reading and replying via email.
> > - Integration with the Google universe of applications
> >
> > I worry that RAS in its current form will loose membership due to many factors. And I have thought hard about how to move RAS into a new future.
> >
> > Towards these ends I created a new Google Group about a year ago called "RAS_Prime" (https://groups.google.com/g/rasprime). It is currently just a shell and not open for business but has great potential.
> >
> > What is needed now is a committee to form and determine how, or if, to proceed and in what direction. Maybe Google is not the answer. I am willing to host this committee's efforts to get it off the ground. I feel that committees should be kept small to be most effective. Members should be willing to actively suggest and work, and not to just sit and listen. If you are really interesting in helping please drop me a line.
> >
> > Thanks,
> > John DeRosa (OHM)
> > john <<<at>>> derosaweb dot com
> I have often wondered why hasn't SSA developed a moderated forum for glider pilots. Just think of the possibilities.
>
> We could have an open forums for soaring technique, events and contests and maintenance issues for all sailplanes. All this information could be in one place where we can limit membership and dicipline bad behavior.
>
> Just my thoughts
Actually, the SSA did have four(?) newsgroups on the server for some time. Didn't get enough use to maintain the server space. The archives are still on the server, but not available for viewing.

Frank Whiteley

On Saturday, January 1, 2022 at 8:37:28 AM UTC-7, Eric Greenwell wrote:
> On 1/1/2022 7:14 AM, Martin Gregorie wrote:
> > r.a.s as currently implemented via the NNTP network works well worldwide.
> > If you want to block any posters you don't like, get off your duff,
> > install and use a proper newsreader such as Pan, Forte Agent, Firebird,
> > etc rather than relying on a rather old HTMP-based website that Google
> > bought and barely maintains. Any newsreader application will give you a
> > better browsing experience than the Google NNTP website.
> What Martin says! In fact, if you are using your email program to read RAS, you may
> already be able to ignore threads ("K" does it for me with Thunderbird), and filter out
> undesirables (I block "daryl penis" and "solution manual").
>
> To elaborate a bit: I "K" many threads that don't interest me, even though the thread is
> civil, just so they don't clutter my Usenet inbox. I also "show only threads with unread
> messages", so I also don't see threads I'm interested in but don't have any new postings.
> Some days, I have only one thread show up for reading. Very tidy.
> --
> Eric Greenwell - USA
> - "A Guide to Self-launching Sailplane Operation"
> https://sites.google.com/site/motorgliders/publications
Seems like you'd miss out on thread drift, which is sometimes the best part;^)

Frank

There is always the option to dump google groups altogether and go to a better platform.

In many respects, Reddit is far superior to the groups 50-year-old core technology. We could have rules, moderators, closed membership, and rich media posts.

So why are we still here?

On 1/1/2022 7:52 AM, Frank Whiteley wrote:
> On Saturday, January 1, 2022 at 8:37:28 AM UTC-7, Eric Greenwell wrote:
>> On 1/1/2022 7:14 AM, Martin Gregorie wrote:
>>> r.a.s as currently implemented via the NNTP network works well worldwide.
>>> If you want to block any posters you don't like, get off your duff,
>>> install and use a proper newsreader such as Pan, Forte Agent, Firebird,
>>> etc rather than relying on a rather old HTMP-based website that Google
>>> bought and barely maintains. Any newsreader application will give you a
>>> better browsing experience than the Google NNTP website.
>> What Martin says! In fact, if you are using your email program to read RAS, you may
>> already be able to ignore threads ("K" does it for me with Thunderbird), and filter out
>> undesirables (I block "daryl penis" and "solution manual").
>>
>> To elaborate a bit: I "K" many threads that don't interest me, even though the thread is
>> civil, just so they don't clutter my Usenet inbox. I also "show only threads with unread
>> messages", so I also don't see threads I'm interested in but don't have any new postings.
>> Some days, I have only one thread show up for reading. Very tidy.
>> --
>> Eric Greenwell - USA
>> - "A Guide to Self-launching Sailplane Operation"
>> https://sites.google.com/site/motorgliders/publications
> Seems like you'd miss out on thread drift, which is sometimes the best part;^)
>
> Frank
It's a possibility, of course. Some I K right away, but many (especially if posters I like
are involved) I'll give them a few replies to see what happens

--
Eric Greenwell - USA
- "A Guide to Self-launching Sailplane Operation"
https://sites.google.com/site/motorgliders/publications

On 1/1/2022 7:55 AM, Todd wrote:
> There is always the option to dump google groups altogether and go to a better platform.
>
> In many respects, Reddit is far superior to the groups 50-year-old core technology. We could have rules, moderators, closed membership, and rich media posts.
>
> So why are we still here?
It doesn't have rules, moderators, closed membership, and I learn useful things because
many of the posters are worth reading - it works fine for me, but if people go elsewhere,
I go there, too.

--
Eric Greenwell - USA
- "A Guide to Self-launching Sailplane Operation"
https://sites.google.com/site/motorgliders/publications

I don't see the need to set up a google group with moderators, rules,
etc.,  It's a simple matter to read RAS via a news reader as I do with
Thunderbird.  I can also set up rules so that I never see postings from
our Canadian "friend", the answer book seller, etc.  It's also a simple
matter to right click on a subject line and select Mark Thread > As Read
or simpler still, right click, Ignore Thread.

Nobody says you have to read a posted thread, watch a particular move or
TV channel.  Why call for censorship?

BTW, your email address appears under the "From" column in Thunderbird. 
There's no need to mask it by putting "at" in place of "@", etc.  If I
was harvesting email addresses, it'd be a simple matter to search for
the substituted string and replace it with the actual character(s). 
Maybe google masks your return address?

Dan
5J

On 1/1/22 12:25 AM, John DeRosa OHM Ω http://aviation.derosaweb.net wrote:
> I have been thinking about this exact topic for several years.
>
> RAS (rec.aviation.soaring) Usenet groups have an Achilles heal that anyone can say anything and can't be silenced - it was born that way in the early utopian days of the Internet. Thus the reason that we get spam from textbook vendors and incoherent tirades from a Canadian fool. Most Usenet groups simply disappear and move away for just these reasons.
>
> So moving RAS to a true (non-Usenet) Google Group is a clear option. And we would NOT loose the access to the historical repository of RAS as it would remain available.
>
> A Google Group, and the alternative systems, has many (optional) key benefits;
>
> - New users could be approved before they can post. This might be a maintenance issue so I feel that allowing anyone to join is better thus...
> - Users can be terminated for breaking the "rules" - whatever those might be.
> - The forum can be moderated. But I feel that it is better to remove offending messages instead.
> - Unlike Usenet YOU CAN POST images and files!!
> - Reading and replying via email.
> - Integration with the Google universe of applications
>
> I worry that RAS in its current form will loose membership due to many factors. And I have thought hard about how to move RAS into a new future.
>
> Towards these ends I created a new Google Group about a year ago called "RAS_Prime" (https://groups.google.com/g/rasprime). It is currently just a shell and not open for business but has great potential.
>
> What is needed now is a committee to form and determine how, or if, to proceed and in what direction. Maybe Google is not the answer. I am willing to host this committee's efforts to get it off the ground. I feel that committees should be kept small to be most effective. Members should be willing to actively suggest and work, and not to just sit and listen. If you are really interesting in helping please drop me a line.
>
> Thanks,
> John DeRosa (OHM)
> john <<<at>>> derosaweb dot com

On 1/1/2022 11:17 AM, Dan Marotta wrote:
....
>
> BTW, your email address appears under the "From" column in Thunderbird. There's no need to
> mask it by putting "at" in place of "@", etc.  If I was harvesting email addresses, it'd
> be a simple matter to search for the substituted string and replace it with the actual
> character(s). Maybe google masks your return address?
>
> Dan
> 5J
I use a fake email address on the USENET. I don't recall how I did it many years ago, but
I don't get any spam due to my use of RAS. If use Google to read RAS, the email addresses
are hidden, but people like Dan and I still see your email address in our USENET readers.

--
Eric Greenwell - USA
- "A Guide to Self-launching Sailplane Operation"
https://sites.google.com/site/motorgliders/publications

On Saturday, January 1, 2022 at 12:48:27 PM UTC-8, Eric Greenwell wrote:
> On 1/1/2022 11:17 AM, Dan Marotta wrote:
> ...
> >
> > BTW, your email address appears under the "From" column in Thunderbird. There's no need to
> > mask it by putting "at" in place of "@", etc. If I was harvesting email addresses, it'd
> > be a simple matter to search for the substituted string and replace it with the actual
> > character(s). Maybe google masks your return address?
> >
> > Dan
> > 5J
> I use a fake email address on the USENET. I don't recall how I did it many years ago, but
> I don't get any spam due to my use of RAS. If use Google to read RAS, the email addresses
> are hidden, but people like Dan and I still see your email address in our USENET readers.
> --
> Eric Greenwell - USA
> - "A Guide to Self-launching Sailplane Operation"
> https://sites.google.com/site/motorgliders/publications

Censorship rarely works. This is readily apparent on Facebook and Twitter. Rather, it is used by some to suppress the views of those they don't like. It would be nice if people resisted the urge to use invective ("flame") others, but in the end, they just discredit themselves and get ignored. If you want to do it on your own, install Thunderbird and have fun - mission accomplished!

Tom

On Sat, 1 Jan 2022 12:48:21 -0800, Eric Greenwell wrote:

> On 1/1/2022 11:17 AM, Dan Marotta wrote:
> ...
>>
>> BTW, your email address appears under the "From" column in Thunderbird.
>> There's no need to mask it by putting "at" in place of "@", etc.  If I
>> was harvesting email addresses, it'd be a simple matter to search for
>> the substituted string and replace it with the actual character(s).
>> Maybe google masks your return address?
>>
>> Dan 5J
> I use a fake email address on the USENET. I don't recall how I did it
> many years ago, but I don't get any spam due to my use of RAS. If use
> Google to read RAS, the email addresses are hidden, but people like Dan
> and I still see your email address in our USENET readers.

Fake poster e-mail addresses are explicitly allowed under the NNTP
protocol: that is, the sender address should have the format of a valid e-
mail address but, since it isn't used to route a Usenet message, it
doesn't have to be a valid e-mail address.

There is a CONVENTION that you either use your (valid) e-mail address
when posting or, if you want to hide your actual email address from
spammers, address scrapers and other pests, use something like

nickname@invalid
Firstname@surname.invalid

IMO the first format is to be preferred because it minimises the amount
of information exposed.

On 1/1/22 6:50 PM, Martin Gregorie wrote:
> On Sat, 1 Jan 2022 12:48:21 -0800, Eric Greenwell wrote:
>
>> On 1/1/2022 11:17 AM, Dan Marotta wrote:
>> ...
>>>
>>> BTW, your email address appears under the "From" column in Thunderbird.
>>> There's no need to mask it by putting "at" in place of "@", etc.  If I
>>> was harvesting email addresses, it'd be a simple matter to search for
>>> the substituted string and replace it with the actual character(s).
>>> Maybe google masks your return address?
>>>
>>> Dan 5J
>> I use a fake email address on the USENET. I don't recall how I did it
>> many years ago, but I don't get any spam due to my use of RAS. If use
>> Google to read RAS, the email addresses are hidden, but people like Dan
>> and I still see your email address in our USENET readers.
>
> Fake poster e-mail addresses are explicitly allowed under the NNTP
> protocol: that is, the sender address should have the format of a valid e-
> mail address but, since it isn't used to route a Usenet message, it
> doesn't have to be a valid e-mail address.
>
> There is a CONVENTION that you either use your (valid) e-mail address
> when posting or, if you want to hide your actual email address from
> spammers, address scrapers and other pests, use something like
>
> nickname@invalid
> Firstname@surname.invalid
>
> IMO the first format is to be preferred because it minimises the amount
> of information exposed.
>
>

When I set up Eternal September as my server, they required a valid
email address, and sent an activation email to that address to test.
Maybe it was just their terms of service.

Anyway, I set up a throwaway email account for that, I'll check it once
in a great while. It's drawn virtually no spam over the years.
Harvesting is always a possibility, but I haven't seen it to be an issue.

-Dave

On 1/1/2022 5:50 PM, Martin Gregorie wrote:
> On Sat, 1 Jan 2022 12:48:21 -0800, Eric Greenwell wrote:
>
>> On 1/1/2022 11:17 AM, Dan Marotta wrote:
>> ...
>>>
>>> BTW, your email address appears under the "From" column in Thunderbird.
>>> There's no need to mask it by putting "at" in place of "@", etc.  If I
>>> was harvesting email addresses, it'd be a simple matter to search for
>>> the substituted string and replace it with the actual character(s).
>>> Maybe google masks your return address?
>>>
>>> Dan 5J
>> I use a fake email address on the USENET. I don't recall how I did it
>> many years ago, but I don't get any spam due to my use of RAS. If use
>> Google to read RAS, the email addresses are hidden, but people like Dan
>> and I still see your email address in our USENET readers.
>
> Fake poster e-mail addresses are explicitly allowed under the NNTP
> protocol: that is, the sender address should have the format of a valid e-
> mail address but, since it isn't used to route a Usenet message, it
> doesn't have to be a valid e-mail address.
>
> There is a CONVENTION that you either use your (valid) e-mail address
> when posting or, if you want to hide your actual email address from
> spammers, address scrapers and other pests, use something like
>
> nickname@invalid
> Firstname@surname.invalid
>
> IMO the first format is to be preferred because it minimises the amount
> of information exposed.

I didn't know about the convention at the time, but my name is on all my postings, in case
someone wants to contact me.

--
Eric Greenwell - USA
- "A Guide to Self-launching Sailplane Operation"
https://sites.google.com/site/motorgliders/publications

On Sat, 1 Jan 2022 20:09:00 -0700, kinsell wrote:

> When I set up Eternal September as my server, they required a valid
> email address, and sent an activation email to that address to test.
> Maybe it was just their terms of service.
>
I use them too: an excellent news service, and have been putting contact
details in a footer because that makes it easy to semi-obscure the
address by splitting it into separate fields, onto several lines etc.
I use the Pan newsreader, which I like a lot, but recent versions of it
haven't been applying the footer correctly.

I've just modified and reinstated the footer....

I don't know that it has to be Thunderbird.  I just use that because my
PC runs Linux, bot Windows or iOS. I'll bet you could use Outlook to
monitor RAS just as well; I'm not conversant with iOS.

Dan
5J

On 1/1/22 4:57 PM, 2G wrote:
> If you want to do it on your own, install Thunderbird and have fun - mission accomplished!