What handful of free open source apps do you use most?

To start it off, I mostly use these half dozen FOSS apps.

(1) Etar FOSS calendar
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=ws.xsoh.etar

(2) Dir FOSS file manager
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.veniosg.dir

(3) Vanilla FOSS music manager
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=ch.blinkenlights.android.vanilla

(4) Good Weather FOSS weather app
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=org.asdtm.goodweather

(5) FreeOTP FOSS password authenticator
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=org.fedorahosted.freeotp

(6) N+ FOSS calculator
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.duy.calculator.free

Am 19.11.21 um 12:19 schrieb Andy Burnelli:
> What handful of free open source apps do you use most?
>
> To start it off, I mostly use these half dozen FOSS apps.
>
> (1) Etar FOSS calendar
> https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=ws.xsoh.etar
>
> (2) Dir FOSS file manager
> https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.veniosg.dir
>
> (3) Vanilla FOSS music manager
> https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=ch.blinkenlights.android.vanilla
>
> (4) Good Weather FOSS weather app
> https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=org.asdtm.goodweather
>
> (5) FreeOTP FOSS password authenticator
> https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=org.fedorahosted.freeotp
>
> (6) N+ FOSS calculator
> https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.duy.calculator.free

Anonymous Troll!
What is the purpose of this ad-posting?

On Fri, 19 Nov 2021 13:46:40 +0100, Joerg Lorenz wrote:
> What is the purpose of this ad-posting?

To learn from other android users what FOSS apps they find useful.
Which FOSS apps do you find most useful?

Here are a few more of some FOSS apps that I use and find useful.

(7) AntennaPod FOSS podcast manager and player
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=de.danoeh.antennapod

(8) OpenTasks FOSS task manager
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=org.dmfs.tasks

(9) Orgzly FOSS note taking and to-do list app
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.orgzly

(10) RedReader FOSS Reddit client
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=org.quantumbadger.redreader

(11) Open Camera FOSS camera app
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=net.sourceforge.opencamera

(12) Clip Stack FOSS clipboard manager
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.catchingnow.tinyclipboardmanager

(13) Loop FOSS habit tracker
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=org.isoron.uhabits

(14) Blockchain FOSS cryptocurrency bitcoin wallet
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=piuk.blockchain.android

What handful of free open source apps do you use most?

In article <sn8qcc$1jsv$1@gioia.aioe.org>, Andy Burnelli
<spam@nospam.com> wrote:

> On Fri, 19 Nov 2021 13:46:40 +0100, Joerg Lorenz wrote:
> > What is the purpose of this ad-posting?
>
> To learn from other android users what FOSS apps they find useful.
> Which FOSS apps do you find most useful?
>
> Here are a few more of some FOSS apps that I use and find useful.
>
> (7) AntennaPod FOSS podcast manager and player

hi arlen

Am 19.11.21 um 19:45 schrieb nospam:
> In article <sn8qcc$1jsv$1@gioia.aioe.org>, Andy Burnelli
> <spam@nospam.com> wrote:
>
>> On Fri, 19 Nov 2021 13:46:40 +0100, Joerg Lorenz wrote:
>>> What is the purpose of this ad-posting?
>>
>> To learn from other android users what FOSS apps they find useful.
>> Which FOSS apps do you find most useful?
>>
>> Here are a few more of some FOSS apps that I use and find useful.
>>
>> (7) AntennaPod FOSS podcast manager and player
>
> hi arlen

Could be him. Killfiled him anyway immediately.

From: Andy Burnelli <spam@nospam.com>
Newsgroups: comp.mobile.android
Subject: FOSS apps
Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2021 11:19:45 -0000 (UTC)
Organization: Aioe.org NNTP Server
Message-ID: <sn818g$vot$1@gioia.aioe.org>
Injection-Info: gioia.aioe.org; logging-data="32541";
posting-host="MVX5QXyCStXBi429cBQ1vw.user.gioia.aioe.org";
mail-complaints-to="abuse@aioe.org";
X-Notice: Filtered by postfilter v. 0.9.2
Xref: reader02.eternal-september.org comp.mobile.android:87278

--
De gustibus non est disputandum

"Andy Burnelli" <spam@nospam.com> wrote

| > What is the purpose of this ad-posting?
| | To learn from other android users what FOSS apps they find useful.
| Which FOSS apps do you find most useful?
| I don't use any apps I can avoid. Most of them are spyware.
Of the apps you list I can't imagine having any use for them,
except maybe the camera program. I might have that. I'm
not sure. The rest is nonsense to me.

On Fri, 19 Nov 2021 17:47:19 -0500, Mayayana wrote:

> I don't use any apps I can avoid.

Your strategy is sound.

> Most of them are spyware.

Do you have evidence most FOSS apps are spyware?

> Of the apps you list I can't imagine having any use for them,
> except maybe the camera program. I might have that. I'm
> not sure. The rest is nonsense to me.

Other than Open Camera, what FOSS app do you use that you like the most?

"Andy Burnelli" <spam@nospam.com> wrote

|
| Do you have evidence most FOSS apps are spyware?
|

No, but I don't assume OSS is necessarily clean. Look at
Firefox. A bloated mess of bad design and spyware settings.
(3rd party cookies enabled by default!) But it's OSS. Oss just
means you can get the code yourself. It doesn't mean it's
good code. Nor does it necessarily mean there are no ad deals.
(Again, Firefox gets paid millions by Google to put theeir
search bar on the toolbar and make it difficult to *not*
search from the address bar.)

| > Of the apps you list I can't imagine having any use for them,
| > except maybe the camera program. I might have that. I'm
| > not sure. The rest is nonsense to me.
| | Other than Open Camera, what FOSS app do you use that you like the most?

As I said, I don't use apps. I answered your post partly
because no one else did and I don't understand that
hostility. Also because I'm curious about the general
phenomenon of apps and what people use.

But for myself they're generally not relevant. I know how
to read maps. I don't want restaurant recommendations.
And even on a desktop I don't use trinkets like clipboard
managers or organizers. I'm waiting for the emperor's new
crypto-currency to crash, along with NFTs, so I don't need
a wallet for that. For notes and lists I use Notepad or a
pencil and paper.

In short, I don't use a cellphone for any of the things you
mention because 1) it's an ergonomic nightmare, 2)
it's functionally a kiosk system, on which it's nearly
impossible to maintain any kind of privacy, 3) and leaving
it turned on regularly causes it to serve as a tracking collar.
Opting out makes little difference:

https://www.vice.com/en/article/5dgmqz/huq-location-data-opt-out-no-consent

Did you know that Google sells "geo-fencing" data to gov't
agencies? They call Google and ask who was at a given location
during a given timeframe and Google sends them a list, based
on cellphone tracking. Very creepy stuff.

https://techcrunch.com/2021/08/19/google-geofence-warrants/

You could have walked past the Capitol on Jan 6 and ended up
under investigation by the Federal gov't. What gives Google and
others the right to spy on you like that?

Many apps make money by add and/or selling your data. On
Windows my firewall controls what software can do. If it tries
to call out it gets removed. It's not so easy on cellphones.
So I generally just don't use apps. I make phone calls. :)

In the few cases where I've needed an app I go to APKPure.
(Though I can't think offhand of an app I've needed. My ladyfriend
wanted a flower ID app recently, but I don't think any were OSS.
We were lucky just to find one that didn't tell us a daisy was
an oak tree.)

My sense was that that APKPure provides non-Google-infested
apps, but I'm really not an expert. I'm curious why you go to the
play store instead. Have I been misled in trusting APKPure?

On Sat, 20 Nov 2021 09:18:57 -0500, Mayayana wrote:

>|
>| Do you have evidence most FOSS apps are spyware?
>|
>
> No, but I don't assume OSS is necessarily clean.

Yours is a sound strategy not to install anything you don't need.
I was just making the point that FOSS apps aren't necessarily spyware.

At least they're FOSS, which means if they're obvious spyware, we would know
but if they've cleverly hidden the spyware (or if nobody looked at the
source) then I would agree with you that to be wary of FOSS apps is ok.

> Look at
> Firefox. A bloated mess of bad design and spyware settings.

I think you have a good handle on Firefox which just takes too much effort
to keep cleaning up as they keep adding more and more spyware to it.

While you can clean firefox up (ghacks user.js for example), it's work.
Therefore you won't see Firefox (or Chrome) on my system, that's for sure.

Unfortunately, you need at least one web browser.
I use ungoogled Chrome as one of the least bad, which isn't good but it
isn't all that bad either.

But I agree with you that the effort to clean up Firefox is just too great.
Even as ghacks user.js helps a bit to clean up the errant ways of Firefox.
https://www.ghacks.net/2020/01/06/please-mozilla-dont-touch-the-user-js-functionality-in-firefox/

> (3rd party cookies enabled by default!) But it's OSS. Oss just
> means you can get the code yourself. It doesn't mean it's
> good code. Nor does it necessarily mean there are no ad deals.
> (Again, Firefox gets paid millions by Google to put theeir
> search bar on the toolbar and make it difficult to *not*
> search from the address bar.)

I agree that it's hard in Firefox to not search even if you make the address
bar not a search engine but at least on Windows I think I managed to turn it
off (but I don't remember how I did that but can look it up for you).

But you need at least one web browser, don't you?

On Windows SRWare Iron allows you to easily turn the address bar search off.
On Android, my main browser is ungoogled chromium which is just ok.

I don't remember where I got it from but a search finds it here.
https://github.com/ungoogled-software/ungoogled-chromium-android

>|> Of the apps you list I can't imagine having any use for them,
>|> except maybe the camera program. I might have that. I'm
>|> not sure. The rest is nonsense to me.
>|
>| Other than Open Camera, what FOSS app do you use that you like the most?
>
> As I said, I don't use apps. I answered your post partly
> because no one else did and I don't understand that
> hostility. Also because I'm curious about the general
> phenomenon of apps and what people use.

Thank you. I saw the hostility and ignored those people who had no intention
to contribute so to respond to them would be to reward their goal.

I was hoping some good FOSS apps would come of it as there are some things
everyone does (like calendaring) which Google makes too easy for them to use
the spyware.

I wanted others to learn from me and I wanted to learn from others.

> But for myself they're generally not relevant. I know how
> to read maps. I don't want restaurant recommendations.
> And even on a desktop I don't use trinkets like clipboard
> managers or organizers. I'm waiting for the emperor's new
> crypto-currency to crash, along with NFTs, so I don't need
> a wallet for that. For notes and lists I use Notepad or a
> pencil and paper.

I'm with you on the KISS concept which I think is sound.
Especially for privacy.

> In short, I don't use a cellphone for any of the things you
> mention because 1) it's an ergonomic nightmare, 2)
> it's functionally a kiosk system, on which it's nearly
> impossible to maintain any kind of privacy, 3) and leaving
> it turned on regularly causes it to serve as a tracking collar.
> Opting out makes little difference.

You and I may not be the norm as most people have an email app, a navigation
app, a calendar app, a picture gallery app, an audio/video player app, a web
browser app, a calculator app, an editor/viewer app, a camera app, a voice
recorder app, a contacts app, a phone dialer app, an instant message app, a
voip app, and so on, where I like to keep mine all at FOSS if I can.
> https://www.vice.com/en/article/5dgmqz/huq-location-data-opt-out-no-consent

Thank you for that recent reference about Huq-affiliated apps collecting
location data even when the user opts out.

I use an app called "Ad Detector"
(https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=krow.dev.addetector)
to tell me what ad services which apps are using and if I don't need that
app, I remove it.

But I don't have a "location detector" app to tell me things like which apps
are "huq affiliated" but looking up huq I found this article telling us one.
https://blog.appcensus.io/2021/10/25/what-the-huq/

According to that article above "QR & Barcode Scanner" uses huq.
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=qrcode.scanner.qrmaker

It stores the router & location & MAC data in a file on your system
/data/user/0/qrcode.scanner.qrmaker/shared_prefs/huqVisitAwaitingSubmissionStore.xml

That says huq waits until there are 10 events to report, and then sends that
batch upload every nine minutes or so while the phone is on, including when
the app containing the Huq SDK is not in use. The trend of about nine
minutes seems like the time it takes to reach a threshold of 10 events so
that the server gets notified.

What they found was that huq did NOT respect the "opt out" mechanism of both
Microsoft & Google/Mozilla (for example, SSID_nomap) which is disconcerting.

While it would be nice to have a "Huq Detector" app, they said "Looking at
tens of thousands of apps, we only found Huq in 17" which they listed in
that reference (make sure you don't have any of them!).
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=qrcode.scanner.qrmaker
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.audiosdroid.speech2text
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=de.android.telnet
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.speedgauge.tachometer.speedometer
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.lelic.speedcam
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=uk.co.nationalrail.google
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.msearcher.camfind
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.fromthebenchgames.fmfootball2015
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.fromthebenchgames.nbamanager15
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.qiblafinder.prayertime.hijricalendar
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.speedgauge.tachometer.speedometer
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.quranmp3.readquran
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.audiosdroid.audiostudio
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.videocutter.mp3converter
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.audiosdroid.arrangerkeyboard
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.audiosdroid.portableorg
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.digitalhud.speedometer
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.ik.flightherofree
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.livingearth.free
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.quranmp3ramadan.readquran
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.weathernowapp.weathernow
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=net.difer.weather
>
> Did you know that Google sells "geo-fencing" data to gov't
> agencies? They call Google and ask who was at a given location
> during a given timeframe and Google sends them a list, based
> on cellphone tracking. Very creepy stuff.
> https://techcrunch.com/2021/08/19/google-geofence-warrants/

No. I did not know this. Thank you for the heads up.
That link says in 2020 Google received a thousand geofence warrants a month!

I agree with your observation that it's creepy.

This article says you have to be signed in to Google for it to work though.
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/04/13/technology/google-sensorvault-location-tracking.html

If Google sells it to the government it absolves the government of their
restriction on warrants so it's doubly creepy that the government gets this.

> You could have walked past the Capitol on Jan 6 and ended up
> under investigation by the Federal gov't. What gives Google and
> others the right to spy on you like that?

There was a murder in my town and the police knocked on my door and I had
wondered how they knew I was in the area and thought it was from a license
plate scan since they knew more than I did where I was that day.

Maybe it was from my phone?
Or from an FBI Cessna flying overhead?

> Many apps make money by add and/or selling your data. On
> Windows my firewall controls what software can do. If it tries
> to call out it gets removed. It's not so easy on cellphones.
> So I generally just don't use apps. I make phone calls. :)

On 11/20/2021 12:25 PM, Andy Burnelli wrote:

> On Sat, 20 Nov 2021 09:18:57 -0500, Mayayana wrote:
>
>>|
>>| Do you have evidence most FOSS apps are spyware?
>>|
>>
>> No, but I don't assume OSS is necessarily clean.
>
> Yours is a sound strategy not to install anything you don't need.

I strongly disagree with that strategy. Several points:

1. I install many utility programs because they make it easier to do
some of the things I do.

2. I install some programs because they reduce the risk of getting
infected with malware.

3. I install some programs because I think they might be useful, and
then uninstall them if turns out that I don't find them useful.

4. I personally don't play computer games, but many people install games
because they enjoy playing games.

5. I no longer review software, but in the past I've installed several
programs to study them and write a review of them.

6. I install new versions of programs I know and find useful (need?)
because I expect them to have improvements I would find valuable.

7. I install new versions of programs I know and find useful (need?)
because I think it's likely that they will fix problems I've been having.

8. I install some programs because although I know little about them,
they've been recommended by people whose computers skills I respect.

9. I install some programs to help friends and relatives with their
problems (an example is Teamviewer)

With a little more thought, I could probably come up with more reasons.
Moreover "need" is a poor word to use for almost all software and
people. Few people really "need" a computer, nor need any of the
programs they have installed. The computer and its programs are there
for some combination of making their life easier and making it more
enjoyablei

"Andy Burnelli" <spam@nospam.com> wrote

| But you need at least one web browser, don't you?
| | On Windows SRWare Iron allows you to easily turn the address bar search
off.
| On Android, my main browser is ungoogled chromium which is just ok.

I don't trust anything sourced from Chrome. I once tried
SRWare Iron. It tried to call home when I opened it the first
time, without asking. When I blocked that it tried to call Google!
Maybe that was for some kind of homepage or search bar?
I don't know. But software has no business claling out to anywhere
clandestinely.

I'm using a combination of Firefox, New Moon and Waterfox.
FF keeps getting worse, and it's a pain to fix, as you noted, but
at least it is adjustable and has lots of extensions. On Android
I'm just using Firefox, but rarely ever use it. On Raspberry Pi I'm
using Firefox and Chromium. The latter is only because it supports
widevine.

| You and I may not be the norm as most people have an email app....

Indeed. I specifically don't want my cvellphone to be a way of life.
I think of it as a portable phone booth. It's too easy to start using it
for email, social media, news... then next thing you know you're having
sex and think it's normal to stop in order to read a text and respond
with LOL. Very addictive. I don't even want people to be able to reach
me by text. They can leave a message on my landline answering
machine. I'm not a surgeon or a drug dealer. No one needs to reach
me right now.

| > Did you know that Google sells "geo-fencing" data to gov't
| > agencies? They call Google and ask who was at a given location
| > during a given timeframe and Google sends them a list, based
| > on cellphone tracking. Very creepy stuff.
| > https://techcrunch.com/2021/08/19/google-geofence-warrants/
| | No. I did not know this. Thank you for the heads up.
| That link says in 2020 Google received a thousand geofence warrants a
month!
| | I agree with your observation that it's creepy.
| | This article says you have to be signed in to Google for it to work
though.
|
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/04/13/technology/google-sensorvault-location-tracking.html
|

They seem to be saying that if you're logged in the data will
be associated with your account. But they still seem to track it.
And then they can associate it with your phone, your web
browsing, etc

Google have also been caught lying repeatedly about such things.
Remember when they were caught slurping wifi data with their
streetview van? They denied it until the specific software and the
engineer who wrote it turned up.

I seem to also remember a recent piece about Google tricking
people by providing some privacy settings but then hiding others
that would override the first. Though I'm not certain that wasn't
Apple

Google have also teamed up with credit card companies:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-switch/wp/2017/05/23/google-now-knows-when-you-are-at-a-cash-register-and-how-much-you-are-spending/

I figure that if you do any business with them at all you have
to assume they're spying on you. And if you don't do any business
with them, they still might be spying on you. It's what they do.

| If Google sells it to the government it absolves the government of their
| restriction on warrants so it's doubly creepy that the government gets
this.
| Exactly. Bypassing the 4th amendment on a large scale.

| > Many apps make money by add and/or selling your data. On
| > Windows my firewall controls what software can do. If it tries
| > to call out it gets removed. It's not so easy on cellphones.
| > So I generally just don't use apps. I make phone calls. :)
| | I use NetGuard as my firewall which I'm sure you're well aware of.
| https://github.com/M66B/NetGuard
|

Thanks. I didn't know about that. Since I don't use the phone
for much I hadn't looked into it.

| > In the few cases where I've needed an app I go to APKPure.
| > (Though I can't think offhand of an app I've needed. My ladyfriend
| > wanted a flower ID app recently, but I don't think any were OSS.
| > We were lucky just to find one that didn't tell us a daisy was
| > an oak tree.)
| | I have a lady friend who loves to identify flowers also.
| Searching I wonder if any of these four ad free apps are any good?
| | PlantNet Plant Identification (4.6 rated)
| https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=org.plantnet
| | NatureID Plant Identification (4.2 rated)
|
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=plant.identification.flower.tree.leaf.identifier.identify.cat.dog.breed.nature
| | INaturalist (4.2 rated)
| https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=org.inaturalist.android
| | Blossom Plant Identification (3.9 rated)
| https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.conceptivapps.blossom

|
| I'll test each of them out and give one of them to her.
| Was the one you chose in that list above?

She ended up with PictureThis, but I don't think it was
available except through the play store. I'll have to ask her
whether she's happy with it or wants to try something else.

|
| > My sense was that that APKPure provides non-Google-infested
| > apps, but I'm really not an expert. I'm curious why you go to the
| > play store instead. Have I been misled in trusting APKPure?
| | I don't know if there is any repo that we can trust.
| I don't trust any of them but I trust FOSS more than I do proprietary.
| | I generally do NOT use Google Play if I can find the app in a FOSS repo.
| Obviously you are aware of F-Droid & GitHub & Sourceforce & Guardian.
|

You overestimate my expertise. I know Windows. I'm a
beginner with cellphones and Android. I don't want to
spend 3 months learning the OS and I don't want to use
it much without knowing the OS. So I end up with my
increasingly common conclusion: "I'm too old for that shit." :)

I know about GitHub for software, and Sourceforge for code.
I didn't know phone apps were available in such places.

| We should aim for apps by Developers who adhere to these privacy
standards.
| https://source.android.com/security/best-practices/privacy

Again, thanks. I diudn't know about that either.

"Ken Blake" <Ken@invalidinvalid.com> wrote

| I strongly disagree with that strategy. Several points:
| | 1. I install many utility programs because they make it easier to do
| some of the things I do.
| | 2. I install some programs because they reduce the risk of getting
| infected with malware.
| | 3. I install some programs because I think they might be useful, and
| then uninstall them if turns out that I don't find them useful.
| | 4. I personally don't play computer games, but many people install games
| because they enjoy playing games.
| | 5. I no longer review software, but in the past I've installed several
| programs to study them and write a review of them.
| | 6. I install new versions of programs I know and find useful (need?)
| because I expect them to have improvements I would find valuable.
| | 7. I install new versions of programs I know and find useful (need?)
| because I think it's likely that they will fix problems I've been having.
| | 8. I install some programs because although I know little about them,
| they've been recommended by people whose computers skills I respect.
| | 9. I install some programs to help friends and relatives with their
| problems (an example is Teamviewer)
| |
| With a little more thought, I could probably come up with more reasons.
| Moreover "need" is a poor word to use for almost all software and
| people.

:) You're sounding like a salesman now. Next thing you'll be
telling me I can't afford not to buy an app that recommends the
best app for recommending the best app.

You could say that few people really need a computer, but
that's not really accurate. Business contracts, email, browsing,
doing business with the IRS or social security, editing photos...
Those are my needs. I also have pleasures: writing software,
doing web design, researching topics of interest, finding
books and videos, etc. I use a computer quite a bit. But I
don't find that I have much use for my cellphone, other than
to make occasional calls, except to relate to people who are
cellphone-addicted, like the occasional person who insists that
I call them instead of using their doorbell. They have trouble
relating to experiences that are not digitally mediated and I
don't want to traumatize them.

On Sat, 20 Nov 2021 16:14:53 -0500, Mayayana wrote:

> I don't trust anything sourced from Chrome.

I don't blame you for not trusting anything sourced from Chromium.

Unfortunately, you need a web browser. At least one.
And, most likely it's either sourced from Chromium or Mozilla.

The one plain jane chromium sourced browser I use on Android is
https://9to5google.com/2016/09/30/ungoogled-is-the-chrome-browser-you-love-minus-the-google/

For Android, some of the not-as-bad-I-think not-plain-jane choices might be

Brave
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.brave.browser

Aloha Lite
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.alohamobile.browser.lite

Epic
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.epic.browser

Opera
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.opera.browser

Tor
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=org.torproject.torbrowser

> https://www.nytimes.com/2019/04/13/technology/google-sensorvault-location-tracking.html
> They seem to be saying that if you're logged in the data will
> be associated with your account. But they still seem to track it.
> And then they can associate it with your phone, your web
> browsing, etc

Thanks for reading that NYT article which was a backup link inside the
article you supplied originally about geofencing warrants.

The less you log into Google, the better it seems, and the more stuff you
turn off the better, but as you noted, identifiable information persists.

> I seem to also remember a recent piece about Google tricking
> people by providing some privacy settings but then hiding others
> that would override the first. Though I'm not certain that wasn't
> Apple.

Don't know about Apple but Google Maps will ask you for location and turn on
a bunch of switches you definitely don't need and certainly don't want. Best
to always say no when Google Maps does that and instead turn on location
manually yourself (which doesn't turn on those extra "accuracy" switches).

GPS accuracy in almost ever circumstance I've ever been in, is just fine.
(There's no need, as far as I've experienced, for the augmented garbage.)

> Google have also teamed up with credit card companies:
> https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-switch/wp/2017/05/23/google-now-knows-when-you-are-at-a-cash-register-and-how-much-you-are-spending/

Yikes.
That article was a bit hard to read, but scary nonetheless.
Thanks for pointing that out as I had no idea they were doing that.
I knew Google keeps a "receipt" section of your email, which is creepy.

Not ever logging into a Google account while on the phone is a key step.

But that article says Google aggregates information from its many apps so,
again, a philosophy is to stay away from all known Google apps (if you can).

1. Don't log into anything Google (if you can help it)
2. Don't use a Google app (if you can help it)

That article also says you can turn off much of Google's location tracking,
which I think is critical for anyone who uses Google apps like Google Maps.

>| I use NetGuard as my firewall which I'm sure you're well aware of.
>| https://github.com/M66B/NetGuard
>|
>
> Thanks. I didn't know about that. Since I don't use the phone
> for much I hadn't looked into it.

NetGuard is one of the best Android apps ever as it gives you a FOSS system
firewall without rooting and it comes from appears to be a well respected
developer (who might work for the NSA as far as I really know though).
https://netguard.me/

For any app, NetGuard can monitor and control cellular data access and Wi-Fi
data access independently (it's a tap to turn access on or off per app).
https://f-droid.org/packages/eu.faircode.netguard/

NetGuard also does systemic ad blocking (if that's what you want) but you
have to get the non-google-play version because Google doesn't like that.
https://github.com/M66B/NetGuard/blob/master/ADBLOCKING.md

I use it for the firewall, where I turn EVERYTHING off and then, one by one,
when I need an app to have access to Wi-Fi or cellular data, I turn it on.
https://forum.xda-developers.com/t/app-6-0-netguard-no-root-firewall.3233012/

> She ended up with PictureThis, but I don't think it was
> available except through the play store. I'll have to ask her
> whether she's happy with it or wants to try something else.

Thanks for pointing that out. Normally I wouldn't test it as it has ads.
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=cn.danatech.xingseus

But, of course, NetGuard (see above) blocks those ads, but anyway....

> So I end up with my
> increasingly common conclusion: "I'm too old for that shit." :)

That's what I say when someone asks me if I'm on reddit or discord or
facebook or kik or even when they suggest I learn a new text editor! :)

> I know about GitHub for software, and Sourceforge for code.
> I didn't know phone apps were available in such places.

Well, there are a lot of repos and I don't have any insider information as
to which we can trust but that's why I stick with FOSS apps that are
unbundled from Google (google services framework free).

I think you may find it interesting to try the first three apps over here.
https://auroraoss.com/download/

They're as good as NetGuard in my humble opinion, in doing what they do.
With the first two apps in that list, 99% of all your app needs are covered.

Mayayana <mayayana@invalid.nospam> wrote:
> "Andy Burnelli" <spam@nospam.com> wrote
[...]

> As I said, I don't use apps. I answered your post partly
> because no one else did and I don't understand that
> hostility. Also because I'm curious about the general
> phenomenon of apps and what people use.

Nobody responded, because 'Andy Burnelli' is yet another - we're up to
some 60 nyms and counting - nym of 'Arlen Holder'.

[...]

> My sense was that that APKPure provides non-Google-infested
> apps, but I'm really not an expert. I'm curious why you go to the
> play store instead. Have I been misled in trusting APKPure?

APKPure also carries most apps which are available in the (Google)
Play Store / on the Google Play website. So APKPure provides *both*
"non-Google-infested" apps *and* Play Store apps. I sometimes use the
APKPure website to get older/other versions of Play Store apps, or
geofenced Play Store apps, etc..

On 21/11/2021 12.12, Frank Slootweg wrote:
> Mayayana <mayayana@invalid.nospam> wrote:
>> "Andy Burnelli" <spam@nospam.com> wrote
> [...]
>
>> As I said, I don't use apps. I answered your post partly
>> because no one else did and I don't understand that
>> hostility. Also because I'm curious about the general
>> phenomenon of apps and what people use.
>
> Nobody responded, because 'Andy Burnelli' is yet another - we're up to
> some 60 nyms and counting - nym of 'Arlen Holder'.

I was suspicious the first time I read the first post, but seeing he
doesn't deny it, we can confirm it is him :-)

> [...]
>
>> My sense was that that APKPure provides non-Google-infested
>> apps, but I'm really not an expert. I'm curious why you go to the
>> play store instead. Have I been misled in trusting APKPure?
>
> APKPure also carries most apps which are available in the (Google)
> Play Store / on the Google Play website. So APKPure provides *both*
> "non-Google-infested" apps *and* Play Store apps. I sometimes use the
> APKPure website to get older/other versions of Play Store apps, or
> geofenced Play Store apps, etc..

Do you have a link?

I want to install something in a tablet that doesn't have the google
install app.

--
Cheers, Carlos.

Carlos E.R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
> On 21/11/2021 12.12, Frank Slootweg wrote:
[...]

> >> My sense was that that APKPure provides non-Google-infested
> >> apps, but I'm really not an expert. I'm curious why you go to the
> >> play store instead. Have I been misled in trusting APKPure?
> >
> > APKPure also carries most apps which are available in the (Google)
> > Play Store / on the Google Play website. So APKPure provides *both*
> > "non-Google-infested" apps *and* Play Store apps. I sometimes use the
> > APKPure website to get older/other versions of Play Store apps, or
> > geofenced Play Store apps, etc..
>
> Do you have a link?

Not really *that* hard! :-) Just apkpure.com! <https://apkpure.com>

> I want to install something in a tablet that doesn't have the google
> install app.

You mean that it doesn't have the (Google) 'Play Store' app, but
*does* allow 'sideloading', right?

On 21/11/2021 13.20, Frank Slootweg wrote:
> Carlos E.R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
>> On 21/11/2021 12.12, Frank Slootweg wrote:
> [...]
>
>>>> My sense was that that APKPure provides non-Google-infested
>>>> apps, but I'm really not an expert. I'm curious why you go to the
>>>> play store instead. Have I been misled in trusting APKPure?
>>>
>>> APKPure also carries most apps which are available in the (Google)
>>> Play Store / on the Google Play website. So APKPure provides *both*
>>> "non-Google-infested" apps *and* Play Store apps. I sometimes use the
>>> APKPure website to get older/other versions of Play Store apps, or
>>> geofenced Play Store apps, etc..
>>
>> Do you have a link?
>
> Not really *that* hard! :-) Just apkpure.com! <https://apkpure.com>

Ah, yes. I had opened <https://m.apkpure.com/> instead (see the other
thread I started).

>> I want to install something in a tablet that doesn't have the google
>> install app.
>
> You mean that it doesn't have the (Google) 'Play Store' app, but
> *does* allow 'sideloading', right?

Finally I found it does have the play store, but anyway, I don't want to
register it.

--
Cheers, Carlos.

"Frank Slootweg" <this@ddress.is.invalid> wrote

| Nobody responded, because 'Andy Burnelli' is yet another - we're up to
| some 60 nyms and counting - nym of 'Arlen Holder'.
|

Ah. Imagine that. He got me. But he did offer some
good links. Thanks.

"Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote

| Finally I found it does have the play store, but anyway, I don't want to
| register it.
|

I don't know about the registering and playstore app.
I've been going to APKPure. But I have found that for
some apps it sends me to Google. Apparently some app
authors cooperate with some kind of Google monopoly?
I don't really understand how all this works. I don't
remember enabling "sideloading". (A term which I really
dislike. It's not "side" loading. It's installing software.
There's no reason to start defining that as aberrant
behavior. Apple is the aberrant behavior.

On Sat, 20 Nov 2021 13:23:03 -0700, Ken Blake wrote:
> ... The computer and its programs are there
> for some combination of making their life easier
> and making it more enjoyablei

And making it more complicated.

On Sun, 21 Nov 2021 08:36:59 -0500, Mayayana wrote:

> I don't know about the registering and playstore app.
> I've been going to APKPure. But I have found that for
> some apps it sends me to Google. Apparently some app
> authors cooperate with some kind of Google monopoly?

As far as I can tell from personal experience over the years, you never need
the Google Playstore App to install apps on any Android phone.

AFAIK, your only Google Playstore App restriction on most Android phones is
you can't delete the Google Playstore App (unless you're rooted, which most
people aren't).

What I do is delete that Google Playstore App from my homescreen so I'm
never tempted to use it. What's interesting is that even if you never use
the Google Playstore App (mine is disabled), you can still update all your
apps that are also found on the Google repo if that's what you like to do (I
don't, but many people want to auto-update their apps, which is why I
mention that observation.)

> I don't really understand how all this works. I don't
> remember enabling "sideloading". (A term which I really
> dislike. It's not "side" loading. It's installing software.
> There's no reason to start defining that as aberrant
> behavior. Apple is the aberrant behavior.

When people mention "sideloading" they may need to make a disctinction
between obtaining the APK versus installing that APK which they obtained.

While you can _obtain_ an APK from almost any app that allows such things
(whether that's an app repo client, or a web browser, or even your MUA or
sms/mms app), as I recall, it has always been my experience that the first
time you try to _install_ that APK you obtained, that Android asks for
permission to install using that app.

The permission appears to be for installing using that specific app (AFAIK).

Once you've said yes for permission to install using that app, then it has
been my experience that Android no longer asks for permission (Although I'd
have to test it to see if there is a one-time permission or not, as I
usually install from the same set of apps so I gave them permission long
ago).

There are so many ways to _obtain_ an APK that we should probably start a
separate thread as the list is likely to be enormous as to the many ways.

On Sun, 21 Nov 2021 08:32:00 -0500, Mayayana wrote:

> Ah. Imagine that. He got me. But he did offer some
> good links. Thanks.

It's been my observation people think they're utter geniuses for figuring
out what isn't even hidden from human eyes (which always makes me chuckle).

It's been my observation that those people are often the ones who are the
_least_ helpful (not because they're the least knowledgeable).

They own absolutely no understanding whatsoever of what is basic privacy.

There's a reason you put wrapping paper around a helpful voluntary and
rather useful gift, which they don't understand (and they never will).

Particularly when those super helpful voluntary gifts are in the public
domain (and which are so good in terms of value that they often show up in
the top searches for years to come).

These people can't ever fathom the simple concept that the wrapping paper
isn't what's important on a gift which is value that nobody else can give.

They can't comprehend that's what's important is the kind-hearted gift of
the rather uniquely helpful information contained inside the wrapping paper.

All they care about is the source of the wrapping paper.
--
This post is a waste of yours & my valuable time but it needed to be said.

On Fri, 19 Nov 2021 17:47:19 -0500, Mayayana wrote:

> I don't use any apps I can avoid. Most of them are spyware.

While this thread is all about the best FOSS apps for Android...

If you use any Google apps (for example, Chrome, YouTube, Google Play,
Messages, etc.) then you are welcome to ask me which are the best
google-free privacy based alternatives.

As an example of how much better you can do in terms of a FOSS privacy based
Google replacement, if you use YouTube, you can't beat this FOSS replacement
https://newpipe.net/

Just ask if you want to replace any Google app with its FOSS replacement.

On 21/11/2021 14.52, Andy Burnelli wrote:
> On Sun, 21 Nov 2021 08:36:59 -0500, Mayayana wrote:
>
>> I don't know about the registering and playstore app.
>> I've been going to APKPure. But I have found that for
>> some apps it sends me to Google. Apparently some app
>> authors cooperate with some kind of Google monopoly?
>
> As far as I can tell from personal experience over the years, you never need
> the Google Playstore App to install apps on any Android phone.
>
> AFAIK, your only Google Playstore App restriction on most Android phones is
> you can't delete the Google Playstore App (unless you're rooted, which most
> people aren't).
>
> What I do is delete that Google Playstore App from my homescreen so I'm
> never tempted to use it. What's interesting is that even if you never use
> the Google Playstore App (mine is disabled), you can still update all your
> apps that are also found on the Google repo if that's what you like to do (I
> don't, but many people want to auto-update their apps, which is why I
> mention that observation.)

No, my tablet will not auto-update.

--
Cheers, Carlos.

On 11/21/2021 6:48 AM, Allodoxaphobia wrote:
> On Sat, 20 Nov 2021 13:23:03 -0700, Ken Blake wrote:
>> ... The computer and its programs are there
>> for some combination of making their life easier
>> and making it more enjoyablei
>
> And making it more complicated.

Yes, often true. But not always.