Anyone know of a source of the LS6 landing gear rubber bellows that doesn't involve DG?

66

On Monday, February 21, 2022 at 3:32:48 PM UTC-8, kirk.stant wrote:
> Anyone know of a source of the LS6 landing gear rubber bellows that doesn't involve DG?
>
> 66

Mc Master-Carr has quite a large selection.

On Monday, February 21, 2022 at 5:32:48 PM UTC-6, kirk.stant wrote:
> Anyone know of a source of the LS6 landing gear rubber bellows that doesn't involve DG?
>
> 66

Kirk,

This is what you are looking for:
https://knipper.de/en/simrit-v6-standard-range/535-faltenbalg-v6-00273-426370.html

Rich L

You could remove the bellows and take it to a motorcycle shop.  Find the
closest one that meets the minimum and maximum lengths and that will fit
around the shock.  It shouldn't be any problem since the LS-6 is
experimental, at least mine was.

Dan
5J

On 2/21/22 16:32, kirk.stant wrote:
> Anyone know of a source of the LS6 landing gear rubber bellows that doesn't involve DG?
>
> 66

On Tuesday, February 22, 2022 at 11:04:29 AM UTC-6, Dan Marotta wrote:
> You could remove the bellows and take it to a motorcycle shop. Find the
> closest one that meets the minimum and maximum lengths and that will fit
> around the shock. It shouldn't be any problem since the LS-6 is
> experimental, at least mine was.
>
> Dan
> 5J
> On 2/21/22 16:32, kirk.stant wrote:
> > Anyone know of a source of the LS6 landing gear rubber bellows that doesn't involve DG?
> >
> > 66

You guys obviously don't know the A&P that 66 is trying to keep happy!

On Tuesday, February 22, 2022 at 11:04:29 AM UTC-6, Dan Marotta wrote:
> You could remove the bellows and take it to a motorcycle shop. Find the
> closest one that meets the minimum and maximum lengths and that will fit
> around the shock. It shouldn't be any problem since the LS-6 is
> experimental, at least mine was.
>
> Dan
> 5J
> On 2/21/22 16:32, kirk.stant wrote:
> > Anyone know of a source of the LS6 landing gear rubber bellows that doesn't involve DG?
> >
> > 66

On Tuesday, February 22, 2022 at 3:47:44 PM UTC-6, needa...@gmail.com wrote:
> You guys obviously don't know the A&P that 66 is trying to keep happy!
> On Tuesday, February 22, 2022 at 11:04:29 AM UTC-6, Dan Marotta wrote:
> > You could remove the bellows and take it to a motorcycle shop. Find the
> > closest one that meets the minimum and maximum lengths and that will fit
> > around the shock. It shouldn't be any problem since the LS-6 is
> > experimental, at least mine was.
> >
> > Dan
> > 5J
> > On 2/21/22 16:32, kirk.stant wrote:
> > > Anyone know of a source of the LS6 landing gear rubber bellows that doesn't involve DG?
> > >
> > > 66

Experimental - Racing is NOT the same as Experimental - homebuilt; you can't (well, at least you shouldn't) just use any old hardware store part to replace something in the plane.

That might be a bit of a shock to those used to shopping at the Aviation Department of McMaster Carr...or Radio Shack in the bad old days!

Pot Kettle Black, BTDT, Mea Culpa, WHOGAS, KMAGYOYO!

66

On Tuesday, February 22, 2022 at 3:17:03 PM UTC-8, kirk.stant wrote:
> On Tuesday, February 22, 2022 at 3:47:44 PM UTC-6, needa...@gmail.com wrote:
> > You guys obviously don't know the A&P that 66 is trying to keep happy!
> > On Tuesday, February 22, 2022 at 11:04:29 AM UTC-6, Dan Marotta wrote:
> > > You could remove the bellows and take it to a motorcycle shop. Find the
> > > closest one that meets the minimum and maximum lengths and that will fit
> > > around the shock. It shouldn't be any problem since the LS-6 is
> > > experimental, at least mine was.
> > >
> > > Dan
> > > 5J
> > > On 2/21/22 16:32, kirk.stant wrote:
> > > > Anyone know of a source of the LS6 landing gear rubber bellows that doesn't involve DG?
> > > >
> > > > 66
> Experimental - Racing is NOT the same as Experimental - homebuilt; you can't (well, at least you shouldn't) just use any old hardware store part to replace something in the plane.
>
> That might be a bit of a shock to those used to shopping at the Aviation Department of McMaster Carr...or Radio Shack in the bad old days!
>
> Pot Kettle Black, BTDT, Mea Culpa, WHOGAS, KMAGYOYO!
>
> 66
An owner can produce their own part as long as an appropriately rated person returns the aircraft to service.
https://www.faa.gov/documentlibrary/media/advisory_circular/ac%2020-62e.pdf

We're talking about a dust cover, not a wing spar.  I know some of you
will be shocked, but my partner in the LS-6 made seals around the
flaperon control rods from a shower curtain.  The glider did not fall
out of the sky in flames.

Dan
5J

On 2/23/22 09:32, Charles Longley wrote:
> On Tuesday, February 22, 2022 at 3:17:03 PM UTC-8, kirk.stant wrote:
>> On Tuesday, February 22, 2022 at 3:47:44 PM UTC-6, needa...@gmail.com wrote:
>>> You guys obviously don't know the A&P that 66 is trying to keep happy!
>>> On Tuesday, February 22, 2022 at 11:04:29 AM UTC-6, Dan Marotta wrote:
>>>> You could remove the bellows and take it to a motorcycle shop. Find the
>>>> closest one that meets the minimum and maximum lengths and that will fit
>>>> around the shock. It shouldn't be any problem since the LS-6 is
>>>> experimental, at least mine was.
>>>>
>>>> Dan
>>>> 5J
>>>> On 2/21/22 16:32, kirk.stant wrote:
>>>>> Anyone know of a source of the LS6 landing gear rubber bellows that doesn't involve DG?
>>>>>
>>>>> 66
>> Experimental - Racing is NOT the same as Experimental - homebuilt; you can't (well, at least you shouldn't) just use any old hardware store part to replace something in the plane.
>>
>> That might be a bit of a shock to those used to shopping at the Aviation Department of McMaster Carr...or Radio Shack in the bad old days!
>>
>> Pot Kettle Black, BTDT, Mea Culpa, WHOGAS, KMAGYOYO!
>>
>> 66
> An owner can produce their own part as long as an appropriately rated person returns the aircraft to service.
> https://www.faa.gov/documentlibrary/media/advisory_circular/ac%2020-62e.pdf

On Wednesday, February 23, 2022 at 9:25:08 AM UTC-8, Dan Marotta wrote:
> We're talking about a dust cover, not a wing spar. I know some of you
> will be shocked, but my partner in the LS-6 made seals around the
> flaperon control rods from a shower curtain. The glider did not fall
> out of the sky in flames.
>
> Dan
> 5J
> On 2/23/22 09:32, Charles Longley wrote:
> > On Tuesday, February 22, 2022 at 3:17:03 PM UTC-8, kirk.stant wrote:
> >> On Tuesday, February 22, 2022 at 3:47:44 PM UTC-6, needa...@gmail.com wrote:
> >>> You guys obviously don't know the A&P that 66 is trying to keep happy!
> >>> On Tuesday, February 22, 2022 at 11:04:29 AM UTC-6, Dan Marotta wrote:
> >>>> You could remove the bellows and take it to a motorcycle shop. Find the
> >>>> closest one that meets the minimum and maximum lengths and that will fit
> >>>> around the shock. It shouldn't be any problem since the LS-6 is
> >>>> experimental, at least mine was.
> >>>>
> >>>> Dan
> >>>> 5J
> >>>> On 2/21/22 16:32, kirk.stant wrote:
> >>>>> Anyone know of a source of the LS6 landing gear rubber bellows that doesn't involve DG?
> >>>>>
> >>>>> 66
> >> Experimental - Racing is NOT the same as Experimental - homebuilt; you can't (well, at least you shouldn't) just use any old hardware store part to replace something in the plane.
> >>
> >> That might be a bit of a shock to those used to shopping at the Aviation Department of McMaster Carr...or Radio Shack in the bad old days!
> >>
> >> Pot Kettle Black, BTDT, Mea Culpa, WHOGAS, KMAGYOYO!
> >>
> >> 66
> > An owner can produce their own part as long as an appropriately rated person returns the aircraft to service.
> > https://www.faa.gov/documentlibrary/media/advisory_circular/ac%2020-62e..pdf

They’re known as “standard hardware parts” and your ship is full of them like, nuts, bolts, washers and gear door hinges to name a few!
My Master Carr is an excellent source of hard to find “standard hardware parts”, as is your local motorcycle shop for brakes, cables and rubber bellows, to name a few!
Question: Why does the wheel and brake they used in their H-301 Libelle have spoke holes in the hub?
Answer,…………….it’s a motorcycle wheel & brake assembly!
JJ

Similarly, the engines in our self launching gliders use automotive
spark plugs that cost about $3-4 each.  I just replaced the aircraft
plugs on the C-180 at around $32 /_each_/! and there are 12 of them. 
Oh, and the Rotax engine in my certificated Stemme has ignition by
Ducati, turbocharger by Garret (the automotive type), a Dynon D10a MFD
(for experimental aircraft only), but it came from the factory that way.

Is that fancy new flight computer you added to the panel in your
certificated glider an approved part or was it installed by via an STC?

If your mechanic doesn't want to work with you, get a new mechanic.

Dan
5J

On 2/23/22 12:20, John Sinclair wrote:
> On Wednesday, February 23, 2022 at 9:25:08 AM UTC-8, Dan Marotta wrote:
>> We're talking about a dust cover, not a wing spar. I know some of you
>> will be shocked, but my partner in the LS-6 made seals around the
>> flaperon control rods from a shower curtain. The glider did not fall
>> out of the sky in flames.
>>
>> Dan
>> 5J
>> On 2/23/22 09:32, Charles Longley wrote:
>>> On Tuesday, February 22, 2022 at 3:17:03 PM UTC-8, kirk.stant wrote:
>>>> On Tuesday, February 22, 2022 at 3:47:44 PM UTC-6, needa...@gmail.com wrote:
>>>>> You guys obviously don't know the A&P that 66 is trying to keep happy!
>>>>> On Tuesday, February 22, 2022 at 11:04:29 AM UTC-6, Dan Marotta wrote:
>>>>>> You could remove the bellows and take it to a motorcycle shop. Find the
>>>>>> closest one that meets the minimum and maximum lengths and that will fit
>>>>>> around the shock. It shouldn't be any problem since the LS-6 is
>>>>>> experimental, at least mine was.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Dan
>>>>>> 5J
>>>>>> On 2/21/22 16:32, kirk.stant wrote:
>>>>>>> Anyone know of a source of the LS6 landing gear rubber bellows that doesn't involve DG?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> 66
>>>> Experimental - Racing is NOT the same as Experimental - homebuilt; you can't (well, at least you shouldn't) just use any old hardware store part to replace something in the plane.
>>>>
>>>> That might be a bit of a shock to those used to shopping at the Aviation Department of McMaster Carr...or Radio Shack in the bad old days!
>>>>
>>>> Pot Kettle Black, BTDT, Mea Culpa, WHOGAS, KMAGYOYO!
>>>>
>>>> 66
>>> An owner can produce their own part as long as an appropriately rated person returns the aircraft to service.
>>> https://www.faa.gov/documentlibrary/media/advisory_circular/ac%2020-62e.pdf
>
>
>
>
>
> They’re known as “standard hardware parts” and your ship is full of them like, nuts, bolts, washers and gear door hinges to name a few!
> My Master Carr is an excellent source of hard to find “standard hardware parts”, as is your local motorcycle shop for brakes, cables and rubber bellows, to name a few!
> Question: Why does the wheel and brake they used in their H-301 Libelle have spoke holes in the hub?
> Answer,…………….it’s a motorcycle wheel & brake assembly!
> JJ

I once rebuilt a master brake cylinder on G-103 Acro. The myth of German engineering excellence was crushed for me that day. When I took out the seat pan to look at the source of the hydraulic leak, I found an early ‘80’s Magura brake front brake master cylinder that was common on BMW motorcycles of the era. All they did was bolt it in lever and all, cut the lever half way up and attach the brake cable to it. MacGyver would have been proud. Checked price and delivery time on rebuild kit from Grob, then went to a local motorcycle dealership and got the same genuine Magura kit for a small fraction of the price.

"Acceptable Parts. The following parts may be found to be acceptable for installation on
a TC’d product:
(1) Standard parts (such as nuts and bolts) conforming to an established industry or
U.S. specification.
(2) Parts produced by an owner or operator for maintaining or altering their own
product and which are shown to conform to FAA-approved data. "

" Owner/Operator Produced Part. Parts that were produced by an owner/operator for
installation on their own aircraft (i.e., by a certificated air carrier). An owner/operator is
considered a producer of a part, if the owner participated in controlling the design, manufacture,
or quality of the part. Participating in the design of the part can include supervising the
manufacture of the part or providing the manufacturer with the following: the design data, the
materials with which to make the part, the fabrication processes, assembly methods, or the
quality control (QC) procedures."

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

These are cut and pasted from AC 20-63. Owner produced parts for type certificated AC are supposed to be produced and meet these requirements. To randomly buy from Lowes, McMaster Carr or the likes does not do this.

If a manufacturer used/uses parts that were procured from other sources or you have documentation that shows that they approve of using other sourced parts, then I would have no issues reinstalling new parts from those same sources as I could show that they were acceptable to and used by the manufacturer.

If an owner provides me a part, I want to see the documentation and data to show that the part being provided meets the AC 20 requirements or have proof that the original aircraft manufacturer installed these same parts, before I as an A&P will put my name on it.

Now some parts are more important than others and considerations can certainly be made, but that is not approved by AC 20-63 that I see. So .... an A&P that strictly follows the AC guidance is protecting his and the owners interest.

In My Opinion and Understanding, JG

On 2/23/2022 12:25 PM, Dan Marotta wrote:
> ... but my partner in the LS-6 made seals around the
> flaperon control rods from a shower curtain.

Well, I hope he was thrifty, and re-used the shower-curtain
from the factory water bags!

😂 Dave.

Our water bags did not leak but it's been almost 30 years since then and
I don't recall if we used swimming pool patches or put in new bags.  We
were poor back then (that's why we partnered up) so I'd go with the patches.

Dan
5J

On 2/25/22 08:24, Dave Nadler wrote:
> On 2/23/2022 12:25 PM, Dan Marotta wrote:
>> ...  but my partner in the LS-6 made seals around the
>> flaperon control rods from a shower curtain.
>
> Well, I hope he was thrifty, and re-used the shower-curtain
> from the factory water bags!

On Wednesday, February 23, 2022 at 5:04:29 PM UTC-6, stephen.s...@gmail.com wrote:
> I once rebuilt a master brake cylinder on G-103 Acro. The myth of German engineering excellence was crushed for me that day. When I took out the seat pan to look at the source of the hydraulic leak, I found an early ‘80’s Magura brake front brake master cylinder that was common on BMW motorcycles of the era. All they did was bolt it in lever and all, cut the lever half way up and attach the brake cable to it. MacGyver would have been proud. Checked price and delivery time on rebuild kit from Grob, then went to a local motorcycle dealership and got the same genuine Magura kit for a small fraction of the price.

Motorcycle brake and wheel parts seem to be a theme with European aircraft. Had a brake master cylinder leak on my European built LSA. Turns out that the factory cylinder is a formerly British, now Spanish, knockoff of a Brembo brake cylinder for a Ducati Panigale (beautiful bike!). Calipers are also motorsicle parts, apparently same as some Harley's use.

Harley???  Say it ain't so!

My Harley has wheels from Australia, forks from Japan, tires from
Britain...  At least the engine was made in the USA, but it's a 2004
model.  Who knows now...?

Dan
5J

On 2/25/22 19:25, Wallace Berry wrote:
> Calipers are also motorsicle parts, apparently same as some Harley's use.

On Saturday, February 26, 2022 at 10:48:03 AM UTC-6, Dan Marotta wrote:
> Harley??? Say it ain't so!
>

Yep, Harley parts on a Czech built plane. Whodathunkit? Bought my brake shoes from an online Harley parts dealer.

Good to know.  When it comes time to replace the brake pads on my Polish
gyro plane (I think the brakes from Slovenia), I'll take an example to
the lawn and garden store.

Dan
5J

On 3/7/22 19:04, Wallace Berry wrote:
> On Saturday, February 26, 2022 at 10:48:03 AM UTC-6, Dan Marotta wrote:
>> Harley??? Say it ain't so!
>>
> Yep, Harley parts on a Czech built plane. Whodathunkit? Bought my brake shoes from an online Harley parts dealer.

On Friday, February 25, 2022 at 10:24:27 AM UTC-5, d...@nadler.com wrote:
> On 2/23/2022 12:25 PM, Dan Marotta wrote:
> > ... but my partner in the LS-6 made seals around the
> > flaperon control rods from a shower curtain.
> Well, I hope he was thrifty, and re-used the shower-curtain
> from the factory water bags!

Dave,

Hahaha! I haven't heard a reference to "shower curtain bags" since the late 70s when, I was told, one had a catastrophic failure in an LS3 that filled the cockpit with water and resulted in the pilot being unable to level out on landing adequately because the water ran into the nose when he used dive brakes on final. Our LS3 had 2nd generation bags but one of them STILL leaked after about a year. The 3rd-times-a-charm bags were far superior.

Chip Bearden
JB