The LX7007 Pro IGC that I am trying to bring back into use has two
internal batteries.

One battery is for the IGC security, and the volatile memory it powers
also holds the LX7007 settings. This battery is probably from 2009, or
2012 at the latest, and is now dead. So I need to replace it and then
have the unit re-sealed for IGC security.

The other battery (is it too a CR2450?) powers the GPS memory, which
holds info that helps the GPS restart faster. It is probably as old as
the other battery, and probably dead too - but how can I know (without
removing it)? I would go ahead and replace it, except for the danger
that removing it may cause the GPS to forget the current "epoch" and
never again get the right date, which would destroy the device
usefulness as an IGC flight recorder.

But would it? I'm told only some old Garmin GPS modules had that issue?
This LX7007 has a u-blox LEA-4H module, which was all the rage in
2005. I find little info about it online, and nothing about how it
handles the "epoch".

On 3/7/22 19:16, Moshe Braner wrote:
> The LX7007 Pro IGC that I am trying to bring back into use has two
> internal batteries.
>
> One battery is for the IGC security, and the volatile memory it powers
> also holds the LX7007 settings.  This battery is probably from 2009, or
> 2012 at the latest, and is now dead.  So I need to replace it and then
> have the unit re-sealed for IGC security.
>
> The other battery (is it too a CR2450?) powers the GPS memory, which
> holds info that helps the GPS restart faster.  It is probably as old as
> the other battery, and probably dead too - but how can I know (without
> removing it)?  I would go ahead and replace it, except for the danger
> that removing it may cause the GPS to forget the current "epoch" and
> never again get the right date, which would destroy the device
> usefulness as an IGC flight recorder.
>
> But would it?  I'm told only some old Garmin GPS modules had that issue?
>  This LX7007 has a u-blox LEA-4H module, which was all the rage in
> 2005.  I find little info about it online, and nothing about how it
> handles the "epoch".

The issue was absolutely not limited to Garmin modules.

Here's a note for units newer than the one you have:

https://www.u-blox.com/sites/default/files/GPS-WeekNumber-Rollover-Workaround_AppNote_%28UBX-19016936%29.pdf

I'd say it's almost certain the battery has already died, and would give
an incorrect date if it could be read.

-Dave

On 3/7/2022 9:43 PM, kinsell wrote:
> On 3/7/22 19:16, Moshe Braner wrote:
>> The LX7007 Pro IGC that I am trying to bring back into use has two
>> internal batteries.
>>
>> One battery is for the IGC security, and the volatile memory it powers
>> also holds the LX7007 settings.  This battery is probably from 2009,
>> or 2012 at the latest, and is now dead.  So I need to replace it and
>> then have the unit re-sealed for IGC security.
>>
>> The other battery (is it too a CR2450?) powers the GPS memory, which
>> holds info that helps the GPS restart faster.  It is probably as old
>> as the other battery, and probably dead too - but how can I know
>> (without removing it)?  I would go ahead and replace it, except for
>> the danger that removing it may cause the GPS to forget the current
>> "epoch" and never again get the right date, which would destroy the
>> device usefulness as an IGC flight recorder.
>>
>> But would it?  I'm told only some old Garmin GPS modules had that
>> issue?   This LX7007 has a u-blox LEA-4H module, which was all the
>> rage in 2005.  I find little info about it online, and nothing about
>> how it handles the "epoch".
>
> The issue was absolutely not limited to Garmin modules.
>
> Here's a note for units newer than the one you have:
>
> https://www.u-blox.com/sites/default/files/GPS-WeekNumber-Rollover-Workaround_AppNote_%28UBX-19016936%29.pdf
>
>
> I'd say it's almost certain the battery has already died, and would give
> an incorrect date if it could be read.
>
> -Dave

The GPS battery is probably dead, but, once the GPS gets a fix it is
still showing the right date. If it can do that with a dead battery, it
can't hurt to replace the battery, no? OTOH, without removing the
battery, I cannot be sure that it is really dead.

On 3/7/22 20:39, Moshe Braner wrote:
> On 3/7/2022 9:43 PM, kinsell wrote:
>> On 3/7/22 19:16, Moshe Braner wrote:
>>> The LX7007 Pro IGC that I am trying to bring back into use has two
>>> internal batteries.
>>>
>>> One battery is for the IGC security, and the volatile memory it
>>> powers also holds the LX7007 settings.  This battery is probably from
>>> 2009, or 2012 at the latest, and is now dead.  So I need to replace
>>> it and then have the unit re-sealed for IGC security.
>>>
>>> The other battery (is it too a CR2450?) powers the GPS memory, which
>>> holds info that helps the GPS restart faster.  It is probably as old
>>> as the other battery, and probably dead too - but how can I know
>>> (without removing it)?  I would go ahead and replace it, except for
>>> the danger that removing it may cause the GPS to forget the current
>>> "epoch" and never again get the right date, which would destroy the
>>> device usefulness as an IGC flight recorder.
>>>
>>> But would it?  I'm told only some old Garmin GPS modules had that
>>> issue?   This LX7007 has a u-blox LEA-4H module, which was all the
>>> rage in 2005.  I find little info about it online, and nothing about
>>> how it handles the "epoch".
>>
>> The issue was absolutely not limited to Garmin modules.
>>
>> Here's a note for units newer than the one you have:
>>
>> https://www.u-blox.com/sites/default/files/GPS-WeekNumber-Rollover-Workaround_AppNote_%28UBX-19016936%29.pdf
>>
>>
>> I'd say it's almost certain the battery has already died, and would
>> give an incorrect date if it could be read.
>>
>> -Dave
>
> The GPS battery is probably dead, but, once the GPS gets a fix it is
> still showing the right date.  If it can do that with a dead battery, it
> can't hurt to replace the battery, no?  OTOH, without removing the
> battery, I cannot be sure that it is really dead.
>
>

There is a small chance the battery isn't dead and replacing it could
make things worse, but not likely. Sometimes the processor in the
system is used to add in a correction to the date to fix up the problem,
that may be happening here. We had an old Nano donated to our club with
a bad date, that was fixed with just a firmware update for the processor.

Another thing to watch out for with U-blox modules is they can have a
3-D lock, but a few minutes later the time jumps backwards by a few
seconds as a correction is added to the time. Some analysis software
ignores that, some flag it as a fatal error. Unfortunately U-blox is
used in both Clearnav and LXNav hardware, and it can pop up if you take
off right after seeing the 3-D lock.

Dave

On 08/03/2022 03:39, Moshe Braner wrote:
> On 3/7/2022 9:43 PM, kinsell wrote:
>> On 3/7/22 19:16, Moshe Braner wrote:
>>> The LX7007 Pro IGC that I am trying to bring back into use has two
>>> internal batteries.
>>>
>>> One battery is for the IGC security, and the volatile memory it
>>> powers also holds the LX7007 settings.  This battery is probably from
>>> 2009, or 2012 at the latest, and is now dead.  So I need to replace
>>> it and then have the unit re-sealed for IGC security.
>>>
>>> The other battery (is it too a CR2450?) powers the GPS memory, which
>>> holds info that helps the GPS restart faster.  It is probably as old
>>> as the other battery, and probably dead too - but how can I know
>>> (without removing it)?  I would go ahead and replace it, except for
>>> the danger that removing it may cause the GPS to forget the current
>>> "epoch" and never again get the right date, which would destroy the
>>> device usefulness as an IGC flight recorder.
>>>
>>> But would it?  I'm told only some old Garmin GPS modules had that
>>> issue?   This LX7007 has a u-blox LEA-4H module, which was all the
>>> rage in 2005.  I find little info about it online, and nothing about
>>> how it handles the "epoch".
>>
>> The issue was absolutely not limited to Garmin modules.
>>
>> Here's a note for units newer than the one you have:
>>
>> https://www.u-blox.com/sites/default/files/GPS-WeekNumber-Rollover-Workaround_AppNote_%28UBX-19016936%29.pdf
>>
>>
>> I'd say it's almost certain the battery has already died, and would
>> give an incorrect date if it could be read.
>>
>> -Dave
>
> The GPS battery is probably dead, but, once the GPS gets a fix it is
> still showing the right date.  If it can do that with a dead battery, it
> can't hurt to replace the battery, no?  OTOH, without removing the
> battery, I cannot be sure that it is really dead.
>
>
To replace the Sustainer Battery and Reseal requires the 7007 to be sent
to LX or their agent. At the same time ask them to replace the GPS
battery AND set the correct Epoch. They should be able to do this.

The alternative would be to replace the GPS Engine and a replacement
will have the current Epoch as default, or it is not Fit For Purpose.

I was unable to find the internal battery for my LX7007 Pro IGC.  The
closest I could find were slightly thicker and, in forcing one into
place, I broke the battery holder. What to do?  I went to Amazon and
bought a bag of battery holders for the new batteries I had.  I got 5 or
10 of them for just a couple of dollars and was back in business.

I never did like the 7007.  It came with my glider.  So I bought a
ClearNav system and haven't looked back!

Dan
5J

On 3/7/22 19:16, Moshe Braner wrote:
> The LX7007 Pro IGC that I am trying to bring back into use has two
> internal batteries.
>
> One battery is for the IGC security, and the volatile memory it powers
> also holds the LX7007 settings.  This battery is probably from 2009,
> or 2012 at the latest, and is now dead.  So I need to replace it and
> then have the unit re-sealed for IGC security.
>
> The other battery (is it too a CR2450?) powers the GPS memory, which
> holds info that helps the GPS restart faster.  It is probably as old
> as the other battery, and probably dead too - but how can I know
> (without removing it)?  I would go ahead and replace it, except for
> the danger that removing it may cause the GPS to forget the current
> "epoch" and never again get the right date, which would destroy the
> device usefulness as an IGC flight recorder.
>
> But would it?  I'm told only some old Garmin GPS modules had that
> issue?  This LX7007 has a u-blox LEA-4H module, which was all the rage
> in 2005.  I find little info about it online, and nothing about how it
> handles the "epoch".

On advice from this forum, I fixed that problem by changing my ClearNav
to record a fix every 4 seconds instead of every second.

Dan
5J

On 3/7/22 21:30, kinsell wrote:
> Another thing to watch out for with U-blox modules is they can have a
> 3-D lock, but a few minutes later the time jumps backwards by a few
> seconds as a correction is added to the time.  Some analysis software
> ignores that, some flag it as a fatal error. Unfortunately U-blox is
> used in both Clearnav and LXNav hardware, and it can pop up if you
> take off right after seeing the 3-D lock.

On 3/8/2022 5:33 AM, Tim Newport-Peace wrote:
> On 08/03/2022 03:39, Moshe Braner wrote:
>> On 3/7/2022 9:43 PM, kinsell wrote:
>>> On 3/7/22 19:16, Moshe Braner wrote:
>>>> The LX7007 Pro IGC that I am trying to bring back into use has two
>>>> internal batteries.
>>>>
>>>> One battery is for the IGC security, and the volatile memory it
>>>> powers also holds the LX7007 settings.  This battery is probably
>>>> from 2009, or 2012 at the latest, and is now dead.  So I need to
>>>> replace it and then have the unit re-sealed for IGC security.
>>>>
>>>> The other battery (is it too a CR2450?) powers the GPS memory, which
>>>> holds info that helps the GPS restart faster.  It is probably as old
>>>> as the other battery, and probably dead too - but how can I know
>>>> (without removing it)?  I would go ahead and replace it, except for
>>>> the danger that removing it may cause the GPS to forget the current
>>>> "epoch" and never again get the right date, which would destroy the
>>>> device usefulness as an IGC flight recorder.
>>>>
>>>> But would it?  I'm told only some old Garmin GPS modules had that
>>>> issue?   This LX7007 has a u-blox LEA-4H module, which was all the
>>>> rage in 2005.  I find little info about it online, and nothing about
>>>> how it handles the "epoch".
>>>
>>> The issue was absolutely not limited to Garmin modules.
>>>
>>> Here's a note for units newer than the one you have:
>>>
>>> https://www.u-blox.com/sites/default/files/GPS-WeekNumber-Rollover-Workaround_AppNote_%28UBX-19016936%29.pdf
>>>
>>>
>>> I'd say it's almost certain the battery has already died, and would
>>> give an incorrect date if it could be read.
>>>
>>> -Dave
>>
>> The GPS battery is probably dead, but, once the GPS gets a fix it is
>> still showing the right date.  If it can do that with a dead battery,
>> it can't hurt to replace the battery, no?  OTOH, without removing the
>> battery, I cannot be sure that it is really dead.
>>
>>
> To replace the Sustainer Battery and Reseal requires the 7007 to be sent
> to LX or their agent. At the same time ask them to replace the GPS
> battery AND set the correct Epoch. They should be able to do this.
>
> The alternative would be to replace the GPS Engine and a replacement
> will have the current Epoch as default, or it is not Fit For Purpose.
>

Given the high age and low value of this device, I took the chance and
replaced both batteries. I'm happy to report that it is working better,
and showing the right date. Now I just need it re-sealed by an
authorized agent, to make it IGC-secure again.

On Monday, March 7, 2022 at 6:16:21 PM UTC-8, Moshe Braner wrote:
> The LX7007 Pro IGC that I am trying to bring back into use has two
> internal batteries.
>
> One battery is for the IGC security, and the volatile memory it powers
> also holds the LX7007 settings. This battery is probably from 2009, or
> 2012 at the latest, and is now dead. So I need to replace it and then
> have the unit re-sealed for IGC security.
>
> The other battery (is it too a CR2450?) powers the GPS memory, which
> holds info that helps the GPS restart faster. It is probably as old as
> the other battery, and probably dead too - but how can I know (without
> removing it)? I would go ahead and replace it, except for the danger
> that removing it may cause the GPS to forget the current "epoch" and
> never again get the right date, which would destroy the device
> usefulness as an IGC flight recorder.
>
> But would it? I'm told only some old Garmin GPS modules had that issue?
> This LX7007 has a u-blox LEA-4H module, which was all the rage in
> 2005. I find little info about it online, and nothing about how it
> handles the "epoch".

Why not contact LxNav? They answer inquiries promptly and accurately.

On 09/03/2022 03:15, 2G wrote:
> On Monday, March 7, 2022 at 6:16:21 PM UTC-8, Moshe Braner wrote:
>> The LX7007 Pro IGC that I am trying to bring back into use has two
>> internal batteries.
>
>
> Why not contact LxNav? They answer inquiries promptly and accurately.

LX7007 is supported by LXnavigation not LXNav.

--

Nick Hill

On 3/9/2022 3:47 AM, Nick Hill wrote:
> On 09/03/2022 03:15, 2G wrote:
>> On Monday, March 7, 2022 at 6:16:21 PM UTC-8, Moshe Braner wrote:
>>> The LX7007 Pro IGC that I am trying to bring back into use has two
>>> internal batteries.
>>
>>
>> Why not contact LxNav? They answer inquiries promptly and accurately.
>
> LX7007 is supported by LXnavigation not LXNav.
>
And not a lot of "support" for this instrument (all of 14 years old?).
The company split may be part of the reason. I could find almost
nothing on their web sites when I looked for manual, firmware, utility
software, databases, etc.

Or simply use a different IGC recorder.

Dan
5J

On 3/8/22 19:54, Moshe Braner wrote:
> On 3/8/2022 5:33 AM, Tim Newport-Peace wrote:
>> On 08/03/2022 03:39, Moshe Braner wrote:
>>> On 3/7/2022 9:43 PM, kinsell wrote:
>>>> On 3/7/22 19:16, Moshe Braner wrote:
>>>>> The LX7007 Pro IGC that I am trying to bring back into use has two
>>>>> internal batteries.
>>>>>
>>>>> One battery is for the IGC security, and the volatile memory it
>>>>> powers also holds the LX7007 settings.  This battery is probably
>>>>> from 2009, or 2012 at the latest, and is now dead.  So I need to
>>>>> replace it and then have the unit re-sealed for IGC security.
>>>>>
>>>>> The other battery (is it too a CR2450?) powers the GPS memory,
>>>>> which holds info that helps the GPS restart faster.  It is
>>>>> probably as old as the other battery, and probably dead too - but
>>>>> how can I know (without removing it)?  I would go ahead and
>>>>> replace it, except for the danger that removing it may cause the
>>>>> GPS to forget the current "epoch" and never again get the right
>>>>> date, which would destroy the device usefulness as an IGC flight
>>>>> recorder.
>>>>>
>>>>> But would it?  I'm told only some old Garmin GPS modules had that
>>>>> issue?   This LX7007 has a u-blox LEA-4H module, which was all the
>>>>> rage in 2005.  I find little info about it online, and nothing
>>>>> about how it handles the "epoch".
>>>>
>>>> The issue was absolutely not limited to Garmin modules.
>>>>
>>>> Here's a note for units newer than the one you have:
>>>>
>>>> https://www.u-blox.com/sites/default/files/GPS-WeekNumber-Rollover-Workaround_AppNote_%28UBX-19016936%29.pdf
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I'd say it's almost certain the battery has already died, and would
>>>> give an incorrect date if it could be read.
>>>>
>>>> -Dave
>>>
>>> The GPS battery is probably dead, but, once the GPS gets a fix it is
>>> still showing the right date.  If it can do that with a dead
>>> battery, it can't hurt to replace the battery, no?  OTOH, without
>>> removing the battery, I cannot be sure that it is really dead.
>>>
>>>
>> To replace the Sustainer Battery and Reseal requires the 7007 to be
>> sent to LX or their agent. At the same time ask them to replace the
>> GPS battery AND set the correct Epoch. They should be able to do this.
>>
>> The alternative would be to replace the GPS Engine and a replacement
>> will have the current Epoch as default, or it is not Fit For Purpose.
>>
>
> Given the high age and low value of this device, I took the chance and
> replaced both batteries.  I'm happy to report that it is working
> better, and showing the right date.  Now I just need it re-sealed by
> an authorized agent, to make it IGC-secure again.

It's a classical Concorde Dilemma. After pouring so much blood, sweat,
and tears (and money) into the project, he can't give up now!

On 3/9/22 11:14, Dan Marotta wrote:
> Or simply use a different IGC recorder.
>
> Dan
> 5J
>
> On 3/8/22 19:54, Moshe Braner wrote:
>> On 3/8/2022 5:33 AM, Tim Newport-Peace wrote:
>>> On 08/03/2022 03:39, Moshe Braner wrote:
>>>> On 3/7/2022 9:43 PM, kinsell wrote:
>>>>> On 3/7/22 19:16, Moshe Braner wrote:
>>>>>> The LX7007 Pro IGC that I am trying to bring back into use has two
>>>>>> internal batteries.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> One battery is for the IGC security, and the volatile memory it
>>>>>> powers also holds the LX7007 settings.  This battery is probably
>>>>>> from 2009, or 2012 at the latest, and is now dead.  So I need to
>>>>>> replace it and then have the unit re-sealed for IGC security.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The other battery (is it too a CR2450?) powers the GPS memory,
>>>>>> which holds info that helps the GPS restart faster.  It is
>>>>>> probably as old as the other battery, and probably dead too - but
>>>>>> how can I know (without removing it)?  I would go ahead and
>>>>>> replace it, except for the danger that removing it may cause the
>>>>>> GPS to forget the current "epoch" and never again get the right
>>>>>> date, which would destroy the device usefulness as an IGC flight
>>>>>> recorder.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> But would it?  I'm told only some old Garmin GPS modules had that
>>>>>> issue?   This LX7007 has a u-blox LEA-4H module, which was all the
>>>>>> rage in 2005.  I find little info about it online, and nothing
>>>>>> about how it handles the "epoch".
>>>>>
>>>>> The issue was absolutely not limited to Garmin modules.
>>>>>
>>>>> Here's a note for units newer than the one you have:
>>>>>
>>>>> https://www.u-blox.com/sites/default/files/GPS-WeekNumber-Rollover-Workaround_AppNote_%28UBX-19016936%29.pdf
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I'd say it's almost certain the battery has already died, and would
>>>>> give an incorrect date if it could be read.
>>>>>
>>>>> -Dave
>>>>
>>>> The GPS battery is probably dead, but, once the GPS gets a fix it is
>>>> still showing the right date.  If it can do that with a dead
>>>> battery, it can't hurt to replace the battery, no?  OTOH, without
>>>> removing the battery, I cannot be sure that it is really dead.
>>>>
>>>>
>>> To replace the Sustainer Battery and Reseal requires the 7007 to be
>>> sent to LX or their agent. At the same time ask them to replace the
>>> GPS battery AND set the correct Epoch. They should be able to do this.
>>>
>>> The alternative would be to replace the GPS Engine and a replacement
>>> will have the current Epoch as default, or it is not Fit For Purpose.
>>>
>>
>> Given the high age and low value of this device, I took the chance and
>> replaced both batteries.  I'm happy to report that it is working
>> better, and showing the right date.  Now I just need it re-sealed by
>> an authorized agent, to make it IGC-secure again.