Forget those hydrogen balloons, turn your nose up at ammonia, don't
worry about shockingly short range electric planes, the fuel of the
future is here -- rehydrated carbon dioxide.

Stealing a page from the playbook of Boom Supersonic, those crafty Swiss
are set to revolutionize flying (and everything else) just by sucking
carbon dioxide out of the air, mixing in a touch of steam, and baking at
unimaginable high temperatures to produce liquid gold aka kerosene.
Details of how exactly they'll be sucking that carbon dioxide from the
air haven't been disclosed, perhaps it will involve unimaginably low
temperatures. They have until next year to work out the details.

https://thepointsguy.com/news/swiss-solar-fuel/

The only question now is how to convert a Pawnee to run on kerosene.

On Monday, March 14, 2022 at 1:51:12 PM UTC-4, kinsell wrote:
> Forget those hydrogen balloons, turn your nose up at ammonia, don't
> worry about shockingly short range electric planes, the fuel of the
> future is here -- rehydrated carbon dioxide.
>
> Stealing a page from the playbook of Boom Supersonic, those crafty Swiss
> are set to revolutionize flying (and everything else) just by sucking
> carbon dioxide out of the air, mixing in a touch of steam, and baking at
> unimaginable high temperatures to produce liquid gold aka kerosene.
> Details of how exactly they'll be sucking that carbon dioxide from the
> air haven't been disclosed, perhaps it will involve unimaginably low
> temperatures. They have until next year to work out the details.
>
> https://thepointsguy.com/news/swiss-solar-fuel/
>
> The only question now is how to convert a Pawnee to run on kerosene.

lol @ "the only question". I really enjoyed that.

For those of us that can "imagine" -- and in my case routinely employ -- temperatures much higher than 1500 C in various industrial processes, those of us that didn't sleep through thermo, those of us that have done some energy conversion engineering, this looks like just another troll for stupid millionaires. But okay, truth be told, I just skimmed.

T8

On 3/15/2022 5:46 AM, Tango Eight wrote:
> On Monday, March 14, 2022 at 1:51:12 PM UTC-4, kinsell wrote:
>> Forget those hydrogen balloons, turn your nose up at ammonia, don't
>> worry about shockingly short range electric planes, the fuel of the
>> future is here -- rehydrated carbon dioxide.
>>
>> Stealing a page from the playbook of Boom Supersonic, those crafty Swiss
>> are set to revolutionize flying (and everything else) just by sucking
>> carbon dioxide out of the air, mixing in a touch of steam, and baking at
>> unimaginable high temperatures to produce liquid gold aka kerosene.
>> Details of how exactly they'll be sucking that carbon dioxide from the
>> air haven't been disclosed, perhaps it will involve unimaginably low
>> temperatures. They have until next year to work out the details.
>>
>> https://thepointsguy.com/news/swiss-solar-fuel/
>>
>> The only question now is how to convert a Pawnee to run on kerosene.
>
>
> lol @ "the only question". I really enjoyed that.
>
> For those of us that can "imagine" -- and in my case routinely employ -- temperatures much higher than 1500 C in various industrial processes, those of us that didn't sleep through thermo, those of us that have done some energy conversion engineering, this looks like just another troll for stupid millionaires. But okay, truth be told, I just skimmed.
>

Google "syngas". It's not a new concept, it's been studied for many years, and high
temperatures and CO2 are ways to adjust it's properties.

--
Eric Greenwell - USA
- "A Guide to Self-launching Sailplane Operation"
https://sites.google.com/site/motorgliders/publications

On Tuesday, March 15, 2022 at 8:46:28 AM UTC-4, tango...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Monday, March 14, 2022 at 1:51:12 PM UTC-4, kinsell wrote:
> > Forget those hydrogen balloons, turn your nose up at ammonia, don't
> > worry about shockingly short range electric planes, the fuel of the
> > future is here -- rehydrated carbon dioxide.
> >
> > Stealing a page from the playbook of Boom Supersonic, those crafty Swiss
> > are set to revolutionize flying (and everything else) just by sucking
> > carbon dioxide out of the air, mixing in a touch of steam, and baking at
> > unimaginable high temperatures to produce liquid gold aka kerosene.
> > Details of how exactly they'll be sucking that carbon dioxide from the
> > air haven't been disclosed, perhaps it will involve unimaginably low
> > temperatures. They have until next year to work out the details.
> >
> > https://thepointsguy.com/news/swiss-solar-fuel/
> >
> > The only question now is how to convert a Pawnee to run on kerosene.
> lol @ "the only question". I really enjoyed that.
>
> For those of us that can "imagine" -- and in my case routinely employ -- temperatures much higher than 1500 C in various industrial processes, those of us that didn't sleep through thermo, those of us that have done some energy conversion engineering, this looks like just another troll for stupid millionaires. But okay, truth be told, I just skimmed.
>
> T8

Laws of thermo in plain language:
1) You can't get something for nothing
2) You can't break even
3) Things are getting worse all the time.
I did learn something in thermo class.
UH

On 3/15/22 06:46, Tango Eight wrote:
> On Monday, March 14, 2022 at 1:51:12 PM UTC-4, kinsell wrote:
>> Forget those hydrogen balloons, turn your nose up at ammonia, don't
>> worry about shockingly short range electric planes, the fuel of the
>> future is here -- rehydrated carbon dioxide.
>>
>> Stealing a page from the playbook of Boom Supersonic, those crafty Swiss
>> are set to revolutionize flying (and everything else) just by sucking
>> carbon dioxide out of the air, mixing in a touch of steam, and baking at
>> unimaginable high temperatures to produce liquid gold aka kerosene.
>> Details of how exactly they'll be sucking that carbon dioxide from the
>> air haven't been disclosed, perhaps it will involve unimaginably low
>> temperatures. They have until next year to work out the details.
>>
>> https://thepointsguy.com/news/swiss-solar-fuel/
>>
>> The only question now is how to convert a Pawnee to run on kerosene.
>
>
> lol @ "the only question". I really enjoyed that.
>
> For those of us that can "imagine" -- and in my case routinely employ -- temperatures much higher than 1500 C in various industrial processes, those of us that didn't sleep through thermo, those of us that have done some energy conversion engineering, this looks like just another troll for stupid millionaires. But okay, truth be told, I just skimmed.
>
> T8

Speaking of stupid millionaires, remember that battery darling of R.A.S.
known as QuantumScape? When last we heard from them, the CEO was being
interviewed next to a stock price chart showing a meteoric rise to $114.

Fast forward a year, it's now trading under $14. Turns out the CEO was
awarded stock options worth up to $2.3 BILLION, and the company is being
sued in multiple investor lawsuits alleging phony test results were
released. Bill Gates was one of the big investors, wonder how he's doing?

> Laws of thermo in plain language:
> 1) You can't get something for nothing
> 2) You can't break even
> 3) Things are getting worse all the time.

Unfortunately, politicians and unicorn herders all think that the Laws of Physics and Thermodynamics have been repealed.

On 3/14/2022 10:51 AM, kinsell wrote:
> Forget those hydrogen balloons, turn your nose up at ammonia, don't worry about shockingly
> short range electric planes, the fuel of the future is here -- rehydrated carbon dioxide.
>
> Stealing a page from the playbook of Boom Supersonic, those crafty Swiss are set to
> revolutionize flying (and everything else) just by sucking carbon dioxide out of the air,
> mixing in a touch of steam, and baking at unimaginable high temperatures to produce liquid
> gold aka kerosene. Details of how exactly they'll be sucking that carbon dioxide from the
> air haven't been disclosed, perhaps it will involve unimaginably low temperatures.  They
> have until next year to work out the details.
>
> https://thepointsguy.com/news/swiss-solar-fuel/
>
> The only question now is how to convert a Pawnee to run on kerosene.

A diesel powered Pawnee would be awesome!

--
Eric Greenwell - USA
- "A Guide to Self-launching Sailplane Operation"
https://sites.google.com/site/motorgliders/publications

On Tue, 15 Mar 2022 10:33:10 -0700, Mark Mocho wrote:

>> Laws of thermo in plain language:
>> 1) You can't get something for nothing 2) You can't break even 3)
>> Things are getting worse all the time.
>
> Unfortunately, politicians and unicorn herders all think that the Laws
> of Physics and Thermodynamics have been repealed.

Synhelion, https://synhelion.com/ is a spin-off from ETH Zurich, which is
not exactly an unknown player in the science and engineering world.

To quote from Wikipedia: "ETH Zurich is a public research university in
the city of Zürich, Switzerland. Founded by the Swiss Federal Government
in 1854 with the stated mission to educate engineers and scientists, the
school focuses primarily on science, technology, engineering, and
mathematics."

More here https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ETH_Zurich
and here: https://www.ethz.ch/en.html

Their list of alumni is fairly impressive too.

All in all, I'd say that if anybody can make this work, its Synhelion.

On Tue, 15 Mar 2022 11:06:27 -0700, Eric Greenwell wrote:

> On 3/14/2022 10:51 AM, kinsell wrote:
>> Forget those hydrogen balloons, turn your nose up at ammonia, don't
>> worry about shockingly short range electric planes, the fuel of the
>> future is here -- rehydrated carbon dioxide.
>>
>> Stealing a page from the playbook of Boom Supersonic, those crafty
>> Swiss are set to revolutionize flying (and everything else) just by
>> sucking carbon dioxide out of the air, mixing in a touch of steam, and
>> baking at unimaginable high temperatures to produce liquid gold aka
>> kerosene. Details of how exactly they'll be sucking that carbon dioxide
>> from the air haven't been disclosed, perhaps it will involve
>> unimaginably low temperatures.  They have until next year to work out
>> the details.
>>
>> https://thepointsguy.com/news/swiss-solar-fuel/
>>
>> The only question now is how to convert a Pawnee to run on kerosene.
>
> A diesel powered Pawnee would be awesome!

Not a Pawnee or a towplane, but check this out:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=loy2n8s_l00

Its a Fletcher FU-24, a NZ-developed topdressing aircraft. Usually fitted
with a 400hp flat-six Lycoming, this one has a big-block V-8 fitted and
burns diesel.

On 3/15/22 07:24, Eric Greenwell wrote:
> On 3/15/2022 5:46 AM, Tango Eight wrote:
>> On Monday, March 14, 2022 at 1:51:12 PM UTC-4, kinsell wrote:
>>> Forget those hydrogen balloons, turn your nose up at ammonia, don't
>>> worry about shockingly short range electric planes, the fuel of the
>>> future is here -- rehydrated carbon dioxide.
>>>
>>> Stealing a page from the playbook of Boom Supersonic, those crafty Swiss
>>> are set to revolutionize flying (and everything else) just by sucking
>>> carbon dioxide out of the air, mixing in a touch of steam, and baking at
>>> unimaginable high temperatures to produce liquid gold aka kerosene.
>>> Details of how exactly they'll be sucking that carbon dioxide from the
>>> air haven't been disclosed, perhaps it will involve unimaginably low
>>> temperatures. They have until next year to work out the details.
>>>
>>> https://thepointsguy.com/news/swiss-solar-fuel/
>>>
>>> The only question now is how to convert a Pawnee to run on kerosene.
>>
>>
>> lol @ "the only question".  I really enjoyed that.
>>
>> For those of us that can "imagine" -- and in my case routinely employ
>> -- temperatures much higher than 1500 C in various industrial
>> processes,  those of us that didn't sleep through thermo, those of us
>> that have done some energy conversion engineering, this looks like
>> just another troll for stupid millionaires.  But okay, truth be told,
>> I just skimmed.
>>
>
> Google "syngas". It's not a new concept, it's been studied for many
> years, and high temperatures and CO2 are ways to adjust it's properties.
>

You start with a bunch of electrons, neutrons, and protons, you can
synthesize about anything in a lab, given enough energy, money, and the
proper tooling. You can convert lead into gold if you really want to:

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/fact-or-fiction-lead-can-be-turned-into-gold/

Some things that can be done in a lab just aren't practical out in the
real world, producing product at scale and doing it with reasonable
economics.

I studied Thermodynamics while earning a degree in Chem E. I have never heard the three laws so beautifully simplified, and damn funny. Now could you
reduce fugacity to the same level of simplicity please?

On Tuesday, March 15, 2022 at 8:36:32 AM UTC-7, Hank Nixon wrote:
> On Tuesday, March 15, 2022 at 8:46:28 AM UTC-4, tango...@gmail.com wrote:
> > On Monday, March 14, 2022 at 1:51:12 PM UTC-4, kinsell wrote:
> > > Forget those hydrogen balloons, turn your nose up at ammonia, don't
> > > worry about shockingly short range electric planes, the fuel of the
> > > future is here -- rehydrated carbon dioxide.
> > >
> > > Stealing a page from the playbook of Boom Supersonic, those crafty Swiss
> > > are set to revolutionize flying (and everything else) just by sucking
> > > carbon dioxide out of the air, mixing in a touch of steam, and baking at
> > > unimaginable high temperatures to produce liquid gold aka kerosene.
> > > Details of how exactly they'll be sucking that carbon dioxide from the
> > > air haven't been disclosed, perhaps it will involve unimaginably low
> > > temperatures. They have until next year to work out the details.
> > >
> > > https://thepointsguy.com/news/swiss-solar-fuel/
> > >
> > > The only question now is how to convert a Pawnee to run on kerosene.
> > lol @ "the only question". I really enjoyed that.
> >
> > For those of us that can "imagine" -- and in my case routinely employ -- temperatures much higher than 1500 C in various industrial processes, those of us that didn't sleep through thermo, those of us that have done some energy conversion engineering, this looks like just another troll for stupid millionaires. But okay, truth be told, I just skimmed.
> >
> > T8
> Laws of thermo in plain language:
> 1) You can't get something for nothing
> 2) You can't break even
> 3) Things are getting worse all the time.
> I did learn something in thermo class.
> UH

Back in my early engineering days the rules were:

1. You can't win.
2. You can't break even.
3. You can't even quit the game.

Dan
5J

On 3/21/22 20:40, Jonathan St. Cloud wrote:
> I studied Thermodynamics while earning a degree in Chem E. I have never heard the three laws so beautifully simplified, and damn funny. Now could you
> reduce fugacity to the same level of simplicity please?
>
> On Tuesday, March 15, 2022 at 8:36:32 AM UTC-7, Hank Nixon wrote:
>> On Tuesday, March 15, 2022 at 8:46:28 AM UTC-4, tango...@gmail.com wrote:
>>> On Monday, March 14, 2022 at 1:51:12 PM UTC-4, kinsell wrote:
>>>> Forget those hydrogen balloons, turn your nose up at ammonia, don't
>>>> worry about shockingly short range electric planes, the fuel of the
>>>> future is here -- rehydrated carbon dioxide.
>>>>
>>>> Stealing a page from the playbook of Boom Supersonic, those crafty Swiss
>>>> are set to revolutionize flying (and everything else) just by sucking
>>>> carbon dioxide out of the air, mixing in a touch of steam, and baking at
>>>> unimaginable high temperatures to produce liquid gold aka kerosene.
>>>> Details of how exactly they'll be sucking that carbon dioxide from the
>>>> air haven't been disclosed, perhaps it will involve unimaginably low
>>>> temperatures. They have until next year to work out the details.
>>>>
>>>> https://thepointsguy.com/news/swiss-solar-fuel/
>>>>
>>>> The only question now is how to convert a Pawnee to run on kerosene.
>>> lol @ "the only question". I really enjoyed that.
>>>
>>> For those of us that can "imagine" -- and in my case routinely employ -- temperatures much higher than 1500 C in various industrial processes, those of us that didn't sleep through thermo, those of us that have done some energy conversion engineering, this looks like just another troll for stupid millionaires. But okay, truth be told, I just skimmed.
>>>
>>> T8
>> Laws of thermo in plain language:
>> 1) You can't get something for nothing
>> 2) You can't break even
>> 3) Things are getting worse all the time.
>> I did learn something in thermo class.
>> UH