On 3/21/2022 6:33 AM, JAB wrote:
> On Mon, 21 Mar 2022 04:57:16 -0700 (PDT), "waltco...@aol.com"
> <waltconnelly@aol.com> wrote:
>
>> road atlas and a Texaco road map
>
> Those are dated terms, which were used in the days of service station
> attendants in most all US states:-).
>
> Roadway Sidenote - Q: How many drivers could find their way home
> without a map, cellphone, etc., if placed in an unknown (to them)
> state? A: Those with an understanding of US roadmap details.
Find a person. Get directions to Walmart or similar. Buy GPS navigator for $100. Drive
home. Give GPS to your daughter, who has an SUV with a broken speedometer that would cost
$250 to fix.

Or... find a paper map. Drive until truly lost. Use cigarette lighter to ignite maps for
warmth until rescued.

Or...find a person. Get directions. Drive until lost. Repeat as needed. Do not try this in
a glider. This is the one we often used in the '70s and '80s.

--
Eric Greenwell - USA
- "A Guide to Self-launching Sailplane Operation"
https://sites.google.com/site/motorgliders/publications

On Monday, March 21, 2022 at 10:50:29 AM UTC-4, Eric Greenwell wrote:
> On 3/21/2022 6:33 AM, JAB wrote:
> > On Mon, 21 Mar 2022 04:57:16 -0700 (PDT), "waltco...@aol.com"
> > <waltco...@aol.com> wrote:
> >
> >> road atlas and a Texaco road map
> >
> > Those are dated terms, which were used in the days of service station
> > attendants in most all US states:-).
> >
> > Roadway Sidenote - Q: How many drivers could find their way home
> > without a map, cellphone, etc., if placed in an unknown (to them)
> > state? A: Those with an understanding of US roadmap details.
> Find a person. Get directions to Walmart or similar. Buy GPS navigator for $100. Drive
> home. Give GPS to your daughter, who has an SUV with a broken speedometer that would cost
> $250 to fix.
>
> Or... find a paper map. Drive until truly lost. Use cigarette lighter to ignite maps for
> warmth until rescued.
>
> Or...find a person. Get directions. Drive until lost. Repeat as needed. Do not try this in
> a glider. This is the one we often used in the '70s and '80s.
> --
> Eric Greenwell - USA
> - "A Guide to Self-launching Sailplane Operation"
> https://sites.google.com/site/motorgliders/publications

Yes, Road Atlas and Texaco road maps are dated terms but one uses what one has at the time. I flew contact, dead reconning all the way. When I was flying tow I had to find my way to a number of little, out of the way strips to do a retrieve. Glad I had the experience of flying contact with a sectional. Later got a program one my phone which I found amazing. There was a time when if I was at 3K feet over Central Florida I would know exactly where I was. Those days are long gone.

Walt Connelly
Former Tow Pilot
Now Happy Helicopter pilot.

Walt,

What wonderful memories you elicited!

Yeah, I like my electronic doo-dads but, should they fail, I still know
how to find my way around without them.

Memories of being lost in the Alaska Range...

Dan
5J

On 3/21/22 05:57, waltco...@aol.com wrote:
> On Saturday, March 19, 2022 at 7:51:51 PM UTC-4, 2G wrote:
>> On Tuesday, March 15, 2022 at 4:29:05 PM UTC-7, youngbl...@gmail.com wrote:
>>> I was having a good discussion with an old friend just the other day, we were discussing the changed aspects of soaring and how much has been lost by the newer generation of glider pilots. The correct term should probably be the current generation of glider pilots. My oh my have things changed, no longer are we cutting up sectionals and smoking the barograph and filling out flight declaration sheets to tape on the vertical fin and take a picture to confirm our flight, no need for the kodak 120 film and cameras to use while passing the turn point, not this somewhat grenade 20km almost turn point. I would like to take one of these Starbuck fliers as I call them, turn off all gps assistance no grenade turn points and give then the Old Bob, The Purist, flight task of the day and just see how well they would do. Oh, Tape those motor doors shut ! E9, 41, Bennie, EA, and Pablo would be laughing. Old Bob, The Purist
>> Florida is a great test of pilotage: follow I-95 north or south, if you go to far east you run into the Atlantic Ocean, too far west and you run into the Gulf.
>>
>> Tom
>
> 'Pilotage? Pilotage? Back when I was poor and would do anything for a moment in an airplane I was asked to bring a J5 cub from Wisconsin to Silver Springs Airport, Florida. I did so with NO radio, no nav aids whatsoever, just the requisite sectionals and a few pages from a road atlas and a Texaco road map. The wet compass was my only reference. I don't recall ever getting about 2K feet, took longer than I expected and I ran into lots of bad weather. I roughed it a few nights sleeping in a sleeping bag under the wing but people at the typical small airport/grass strips along the way where I refueled were wonderful. A couple of years ago I had to do a cross country for my rotorwing/helicopter rating, my cross country flying for my commercial airplane and other long flights didn't count, stupid idea on the part of the FAA. So this time I sat with an iPad and followed the line. I still had a sectional JUST in case.
>
> Walt Connelly
> Former Tow Pilot
> Now Happy Helicopter Pilot.,

> What wonderful memories you elicited!
>
> Yeah, I like my electronic doo-dads but, should they fail, I still
> know how to find my way around without them...

>> 'Pilotage? Pilotage? Back when I was poor and would do anything
>> for a moment in an airplane I was asked to bring a J5 cub from
>> Wisconsin to Silver Springs Airport, Florida. I did so with NO
>> radio, no nav aids whatsoever, just the requisite sectionals and a
>> few pages from a road atlas and a Texaco road map. The wet compass
>> was my only reference. I don't recall ever getting about 2K feet,
>> took longer than I expected and I ran into lots of bad weather. I
>> roughed it a few nights sleeping in a sleeping bag under the wing
>> but people at the typical small airport/grass strips along the way
>> where I refueled were wonderful...
- - - - - -

Spring is sprung (well, north of the equator, anyway)...& retired ol' me
is taking an indoor break from 'actual work' on a raw, blustery, day,
non-conducive to accomplishing/working-on anything outdoors. Time for a
mini-rant...

RAS (IMO) has evolved considerably from "way back when days."
F'r'example, there's a *lot* fewer posts from "newbies sharing soaring
experiences/'mental-puzzlements'" than there usta've been, and a whole
lot more of widget-related 'WTF?s', and, 'mere opinionating' about
only-marginally-related-to-soaring-basics topics.

Other than (sometimes) carrying a handheld radio and (once) an actual,
borrowed, logger, I never soared with anything but 'paper &
pilotage'...and never considered myself lost, never busted any
air-spaces, and - perhaps most significantly, given the seemingly
prevailing opinions within the soaring community as most-commonly
expressed these days on RAS - never felt the need to justify the manner
in which I chose to go soaring. Sure, buddies and acquaintances
occasionally ragged on me, and both schools of thought had fun doing
so...but my approach worked for me, and - back in 'the good old days' -
both viewpoints were accepted without overt 'public shaming.' Today, not
so much...

My primary point? The web has made public sharing of opinions
considerably easier than even 20 years ago, and in that sense has - IMO
- contributed to the 'devaluing of opinions.' (Not all opinions should
be given equal weight! There remains a place for critical thought...)

My secondary point - and almost certainly a lost cause! - is to opine
that 'repetitive, mere opinionating within the RASident community'
contributes little to actual information dissemination about the sport
of soaring, but it apparently does seem to fill a need for some
contributors. (Key word: repetitive.) For the record, I'm not whining
here about multiple threads on titularly different topics which
(obviously?) can be argued to be standalone topics of discussion, and
which happen to touch upon (repeat) points mentioned in other threads. I
mean the repetitive opinionating withIN individual threads. Reminds me
of stereotypical front-door-stoop conversations with a religious
proselytizer, during which the conversational progression is each party
repeating the same things - but louder and slower! Lotsa words but
little additional content...

I'll be leaving, now. My work here is done.

Flame suit on...

Bob W.

On Mon, 21 Mar 2022 07:50:24 -0700, Eric Greenwell
<owner@thegreenwells.netto> wrote:

>> Roadway Sidenote - Q: How many drivers could find their way home
>> without a map, cellphone, etc., if placed in an unknown (to them)
>> state? A: Those with an understanding of US roadmap details.

>Find a person. Get directions to Walmart or similar. Buy GPS navigator for $100.

"without a map, cellphone, etc.,"

ETC means no external navigational means...just a driver in a vehicle.

I can do it, btw.

From Names to Numbers: The Origins of the U.S. Numbered Highway System
https://www.fhwa.dot.gov/infrastructure/numbers.cfm

Wikipedia:Naming conventions (U.S. state and territory highways)
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Naming_conventions_(U.S._state_and_territory_highways)>

On Monday, March 21, 2022 at 1:54:25 PM UTC-4, JAB wrote:
> On Mon, 21 Mar 2022 07:50:24 -0700, Eric Greenwell
> <ow...@thegreenwells.netto> wrote:
>
> >> Roadway Sidenote - Q: How many drivers could find their way home
> >> without a map, cellphone, etc., if placed in an unknown (to them)
> >> state? A: Those with an understanding of US roadmap details.
>
> >Find a person. Get directions to Walmart or similar. Buy GPS navigator for $100.
>
> "without a map, cellphone, etc.,"
> ETC means no external navigational means...just a driver in a vehicle.
>
> I can do it, btw.
>
> From Names to Numbers: The Origins of the U.S. Numbered Highway System
> https://www.fhwa.dot.gov/infrastructure/numbers.cfm
>
> Wikipedia:Naming conventions (U.S. state and territory highways)
> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Naming_conventions_(U.S._state_and_territory_highways)>

Dan,

Only time I've been lost was in night navigation in Combat Crew Escape and Evasion Resistance Training Survival School at Fairchild AFB Washington. (next stop was the PI for jungle school and there on to Vietnam) I was paired up with an officer who knew every f00king thing but didn't listen when they told us a PACE was each time we put our left foot down. So when we were to go 500 paces and then turn to a new heading we had essentially only gone 250 paces. I pointed this out but I was an NCO and he was a 2nd LT AND a navigator. When we found ourselves at the end of the directions and hopelessly lost I suggested we back track to the first turn point and start counting as I had suggested. We were the last to get to the rally point. He was Nav on a tanker, glad my plane wasn't air re-fuelable.

Walt Connelly

On 3/21/2022 10:54 AM, JAB wrote:
> On Mon, 21 Mar 2022 07:50:24 -0700, Eric Greenwell
> <owner@thegreenwells.netto> wrote:
>
>>> Roadway Sidenote - Q: How many drivers could find their way home
>>> without a map, cellphone, etc., if placed in an unknown (to them)
>>> state? A: Those with an understanding of US roadmap details.
>
>> Find a person. Get directions to Walmart or similar. Buy GPS navigator for $100.
>
> "without a map, cellphone, etc.,"
>
> ETC means no external navigational means...just a driver in a vehicle.
>
> I can do it, btw.
>
> From Names to Numbers: The Origins of the U.S. Numbered Highway System
> https://www.fhwa.dot.gov/infrastructure/numbers.cfm
>
> Wikipedia:Naming conventions (U.S. state and territory highways)
> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Naming_conventions_(U.S._state_and_territory_highways)>

Road signs are "external navigational means" (are the sun and stars ruled out?). The task
is poorly stated if road signs are allowed, as then the "etc" can be anything you want it
to be. I think the challenge is you are placed somewhere without a cell phone, map, etc
and must find your way home from there.

And I would find that person without a map or cell phone or etc!

--
Eric Greenwell - USA
- "A Guide to Self-launching Sailplane Operation"
https://sites.google.com/site/motorgliders/publications

On Monday, March 21, 2022 at 9:33:41 AM UTC-4, JAB wrote:
> On Mon, 21 Mar 2022 04:57:16 -0700 (PDT), "waltco...@aol.com"
> <waltco...@aol.com> wrote:
>
> >road atlas and a Texaco road map
> Those are dated terms, which were used in the days of service station
> attendants in most all US states:-).
>
> Roadway Sidenote - Q: How many drivers could find their way home
> without a map, cellphone, etc., if placed in an unknown (to them)
> state? A: Those with an understanding of US roadmap details.

Alphonso Jurado flew 1000K at New Castle in 1990 with a road map instead of a chart. Back in the days of cameras. Asked why he took the road map he said it would make the retrieve easier.
Only the Fonz would think like that.
UH

Hey Walt,

I was an E-5 before I was an O-1 and I always listened to senior NCOs!
I got out as the result of a pissing match between me and the personnel
center. I wanted an F-16 and the best they could offer was an F-15. So
I got out as an O-3.

Dan
5J

On 3/21/22 14:44, waltco...@aol.com wrote:
> On Monday, March 21, 2022 at 1:54:25 PM UTC-4, JAB wrote:
>> On Mon, 21 Mar 2022 07:50:24 -0700, Eric Greenwell
>> <ow...@thegreenwells.netto> wrote:
>>
>>>> Roadway Sidenote - Q: How many drivers could find their way home
>>>> without a map, cellphone, etc., if placed in an unknown (to them)
>>>> state? A: Those with an understanding of US roadmap details.
>>
>>> Find a person. Get directions to Walmart or similar. Buy GPS navigator for $100.
>>
>> "without a map, cellphone, etc.,"
>> ETC means no external navigational means...just a driver in a vehicle.
>>
>> I can do it, btw.
>>
>> From Names to Numbers: The Origins of the U.S. Numbered Highway System
>> https://www.fhwa.dot.gov/infrastructure/numbers.cfm
>>
>> Wikipedia:Naming conventions (U.S. state and territory highways)
>> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Naming_conventions_(U.S._state_and_territory_highways)>
>
>
> Dan,
>
> Only time I've been lost was in night navigation in Combat Crew Escape and Evasion Resistance Training Survival School at Fairchild AFB Washington. (next stop was the PI for jungle school and there on to Vietnam) I was paired up with an officer who knew every f00king thing but didn't listen when they told us a PACE was each time we put our left foot down. So when we were to go 500 paces and then turn to a new heading we had essentially only gone 250 paces. I pointed this out but I was an NCO and he was a 2nd LT AND a navigator. When we found ourselves at the end of the directions and hopelessly lost I suggested we back track to the first turn point and start counting as I had suggested. We were the last to get to the rally point. He was Nav on a tanker, glad my plane wasn't air re-fuelable.
>
> Walt Connelly

On Monday, March 21, 2022 at 7:10:43 PM UTC-4, Hank Nixon wrote:
> On Monday, March 21, 2022 at 9:33:41 AM UTC-4, JAB wrote:
> > On Mon, 21 Mar 2022 04:57:16 -0700 (PDT), "waltco...@aol.com"
> > <waltco...@aol.com> wrote:
> >
> > >road atlas and a Texaco road map
> > Those are dated terms, which were used in the days of service station
> > attendants in most all US states:-).
> >
> > Roadway Sidenote - Q: How many drivers could find their way home
> > without a map, cellphone, etc., if placed in an unknown (to them)
> > state? A: Those with an understanding of US roadmap details.
> Alphonso Jurado flew 1000K at New Castle in 1990 with a road map instead of a chart. Back in the days of cameras. Asked why he took the road map he said it would make the retrieve easier.
> Only the Fonz would think like that.
> UH
UH, I flew more with the Fonz than probably anyone, we would go places that most would never think about going, I saw Fonz do things that most would say was impossible, but he did it with style. Once we were flying without any plan , just flying and fast I might add, as you knew the E9 loved to do. We took off from Thermal Research and crossed the Everglades and headed north, we were both in ASW20's and that was back in the day. As we flew up the state we were encountering some of the best conditions that I have ever seen, we came close to where Seminole is today and headed back to Thermal Research I asked Fonz why he was going that direction and his reply in that wonderful Latin accent, "Damn Bob, They Will Never Find Us In That Swamp". What a great guy, the best and a wonderful person. Old Bob, The Purist

The "current" generation of glider pilots is the same generation that started in the 80's. We just have more money and less time and MUCH less patience, so why not buy electronics and save that aging brain power for solving the world's problems, you know, the problems made worse by each successive generation.
On Tuesday, March 15, 2022 at 4:29:05 PM UTC-7, youngbl...@gmail.com wrote:
> I was having a good discussion with an old friend just the other day, we were discussing the changed aspects of soaring and how much has been lost by the newer generation of glider pilots. The correct term should probably be the current generation of glider pilots. My oh my have things changed, no longer are we cutting up sectionals and smoking the barograph and filling out flight declaration sheets to tape on the vertical fin and take a picture to confirm our flight, no need for the kodak 120 film and cameras to use while passing the turn point, not this somewhat grenade 20km almost turn point. I would like to take one of these Starbuck fliers as I call them, turn off all gps assistance no grenade turn points and give then the Old Bob, The Purist, flight task of the day and just see how well they would do. Oh, Tape those motor doors shut ! E9, 41, Bennie, EA, and Pablo would be laughing. Old Bob, The Purist

On Monday, March 21, 2022 at 10:50:21 PM UTC-4, jonatha...@gmail.com wrote:
> The "current" generation of glider pilots is the same generation that started in the 80's. We just have more money and less time and MUCH less patience, so why not buy electronics and save that aging brain power for solving the world's problems, you know, the problems made worse by each successive generation.
> On Tuesday, March 15, 2022 at 4:29:05 PM UTC-7, youngbl...@gmail.com wrote:
> > I was having a good discussion with an old friend just the other day, we were discussing the changed aspects of soaring and how much has been lost by the newer generation of glider pilots. The correct term should probably be the current generation of glider pilots. My oh my have things changed, no longer are we cutting up sectionals and smoking the barograph and filling out flight declaration sheets to tape on the vertical fin and take a picture to confirm our flight, no need for the kodak 120 film and cameras to use while passing the turn point, not this somewhat grenade 20km almost turn point. I would like to take one of these Starbuck fliers as I call them, turn off all gps assistance no grenade turn points and give then the Old Bob, The Purist, flight task of the day and just see how well they would do. Oh, Tape those motor doors shut ! E9, 41, Bennie, EA, and Pablo would be laughing. Old Bob, The Purist
Jonathan, by no means is the current generation of glider pilots the same as the generations past, no comparison! Yes, the technology has changed and has had a huge impact on glider flights, along with the increased performance in modern larger ships. Old Bob, The Purist

On Tuesday, March 22, 2022 at 6:26:56 AM UTC-7, youngbl...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Monday, March 21, 2022 at 10:50:21 PM UTC-4, jonatha...@gmail.com wrote:
> > The "current" generation of glider pilots is the same generation that started in the 80's. We just have more money and less time and MUCH less patience, so why not buy electronics and save that aging brain power for solving the world's problems, you know, the problems made worse by each successive generation.
> > On Tuesday, March 15, 2022 at 4:29:05 PM UTC-7, youngbl...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > I was having a good discussion with an old friend just the other day, we were discussing the changed aspects of soaring and how much has been lost by the newer generation of glider pilots. The correct term should probably be the current generation of glider pilots. My oh my have things changed, no longer are we cutting up sectionals and smoking the barograph and filling out flight declaration sheets to tape on the vertical fin and take a picture to confirm our flight, no need for the kodak 120 film and cameras to use while passing the turn point, not this somewhat grenade 20km almost turn point. I would like to take one of these Starbuck fliers as I call them, turn off all gps assistance no grenade turn points and give then the Old Bob, The Purist, flight task of the day and just see how well they would do. Oh, Tape those motor doors shut ! E9, 41, Bennie, EA, and Pablo would be laughing. Old Bob, The Purist
> Jonathan, by no means is the current generation of glider pilots the same as the generations past, no comparison! Yes, the technology has changed and has had a huge impact on glider flights, along with the increased performance in modern larger ships. Old Bob, The Purist

Yeah, the current generation of pilots fly motorgliders so they don't have to put up with crotchety, senile tow pilots.

Tom

On 3/22/2022 7:43 PM, 2G wrote:
> On Tuesday, March 22, 2022 at 6:26:56 AM UTC-7, youngbl...@gmail.com wrote:
>> On Monday, March 21, 2022 at 10:50:21 PM UTC-4, jonatha...@gmail.com wrote:
>>> The "current" generation of glider pilots is the same generation that started in the 80's. We just have more money and less time and MUCH less patience, so why not buy electronics and save that aging brain power for solving the world's problems, you know, the problems made worse by each successive generation.
>>> On Tuesday, March 15, 2022 at 4:29:05 PM UTC-7, youngbl...@gmail.com wrote:
>>>> I was having a good discussion with an old friend just the other day, we were discussing the changed aspects of soaring and how much has been lost by the newer generation of glider pilots. The correct term should probably be the current generation of glider pilots. My oh my have things changed, no longer are we cutting up sectionals and smoking the barograph and filling out flight declaration sheets to tape on the vertical fin and take a picture to confirm our flight, no need for the kodak 120 film and cameras to use while passing the turn point, not this somewhat grenade 20km almost turn point. I would like to take one of these Starbuck fliers as I call them, turn off all gps assistance no grenade turn points and give then the Old Bob, The Purist, flight task of the day and just see how well they would do. Oh, Tape those motor doors shut ! E9, 41, Bennie, EA, and Pablo would be laughing. Old Bob, The Purist
>> Jonathan, by no means is the current generation of glider pilots the same as the generations past, no comparison! Yes, the technology has changed and has had a huge impact on glider flights, along with the increased performance in modern larger ships. Old Bob, The Purist
>
> Yeah, the current generation of pilots fly motorgliders so they don't have to put up with crotchety, senile tow pilots.
>
> Tom
I think it's the long line of gliders waiting for a tow that drive many of us to
self-launchers, not the congeniality of the towpilot!

--
Eric Greenwell - USA
- "A Guide to Self-launching Sailplane Operation"
https://sites.google.com/site/motorgliders/publications

On Tuesday, March 22, 2022 at 10:43:41 PM UTC-4, 2G wrote:
> On Tuesday, March 22, 2022 at 6:26:56 AM UTC-7, youngbl...@gmail.com wrote:
> > On Monday, March 21, 2022 at 10:50:21 PM UTC-4, jonatha...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > The "current" generation of glider pilots is the same generation that started in the 80's. We just have more money and less time and MUCH less patience, so why not buy electronics and save that aging brain power for solving the world's problems, you know, the problems made worse by each successive generation.
> > > On Tuesday, March 15, 2022 at 4:29:05 PM UTC-7, youngbl...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > > I was having a good discussion with an old friend just the other day, we were discussing the changed aspects of soaring and how much has been lost by the newer generation of glider pilots. The correct term should probably be the current generation of glider pilots. My oh my have things changed, no longer are we cutting up sectionals and smoking the barograph and filling out flight declaration sheets to tape on the vertical fin and take a picture to confirm our flight, no need for the kodak 120 film and cameras to use while passing the turn point, not this somewhat grenade 20km almost turn point. I would like to take one of these Starbuck fliers as I call them, turn off all gps assistance no grenade turn points and give then the Old Bob, The Purist, flight task of the day and just see how well they would do.. Oh, Tape those motor doors shut ! E9, 41, Bennie, EA, and Pablo would be laughing. Old Bob, The Purist
> > Jonathan, by no means is the current generation of glider pilots the same as the generations past, no comparison! Yes, the technology has changed and has had a huge impact on glider flights, along with the increased performance in modern larger ships. Old Bob, The Purist
> Yeah, the current generation of pilots fly motorgliders so they don't have to put up with crotchety, senile tow pilots.
>
> Tom
Recently I towed two self launch gliders, both had blown engines, never had that problem as a PURIST! The only senile old crotchety pilot was the pilot of the motorglider, I LMAO at the event. Old Bob, The Purist

On 3/23/2022 4:36 AM, youngbl...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Tuesday, March 22, 2022 at 10:43:41 PM UTC-4, 2G wrote:
>> On Tuesday, March 22, 2022 at 6:26:56 AM UTC-7, youngbl...@gmail.com wrote:
>>> On Monday, March 21, 2022 at 10:50:21 PM UTC-4, jonatha...@gmail.com wrote:
>>>> The "current" generation of glider pilots is the same generation that started in the 80's. We just have more money and less time and MUCH less patience, so why not buy electronics and save that aging brain power for solving the world's problems, you know, the problems made worse by each successive generation.
>>>> On Tuesday, March 15, 2022 at 4:29:05 PM UTC-7, youngbl...@gmail.com wrote:
>>>>> I was having a good discussion with an old friend just the other day, we were discussing the changed aspects of soaring and how much has been lost by the newer generation of glider pilots. The correct term should probably be the current generation of glider pilots. My oh my have things changed, no longer are we cutting up sectionals and smoking the barograph and filling out flight declaration sheets to tape on the vertical fin and take a picture to confirm our flight, no need for the kodak 120 film and cameras to use while passing the turn point, not this somewhat grenade 20km almost turn point. I would like to take one of these Starbuck fliers as I call them, turn off all gps assistance no grenade turn points and give then the Old Bob, The Purist, flight task of the day and just see how well they would do. Oh, Tape those motor doors shut ! E9, 41, Bennie, EA, and Pablo would be laughing. Old Bob, The Purist
>>> Jonathan, by no means is the current generation of glider pilots the same as the generations past, no comparison! Yes, the technology has changed and has had a huge impact on glider flights, along with the increased performance in modern larger ships. Old Bob, The Purist
>> Yeah, the current generation of pilots fly motorgliders so they don't have to put up with crotchety, senile tow pilots.
>>
>> Tom
> Recently I towed two self launch gliders, both had blown engines, never had that problem as a PURIST! The only senile old crotchety pilot was the pilot of the motorglider, I LMAO at the event. Old Bob, The Purist

Oh, I've had that kind of problem with "my engine" (aka "towplane"), and many more, when I
was a "purist". I used to be part owner of a towplane, and it was one damn thing after
another, mostly engine problems, but also brakes, radio, battery, down for an annual or
AD, and increasingly for our club - finding pilots that could fly a tail dragger. I've
missed fewer soaring opportunities since I got a self-launcher, and fewer headaches
keeping it operating. With a motorglider, you have two independent ways to get launched;
"purists" have only one, though in 26 years, I've never needed the towplane option.

--
Eric Greenwell - USA
- "A Guide to Self-launching Sailplane Operation"
https://sites.google.com/site/motorgliders/publications

On Wednesday, March 23, 2022 at 8:58:50 AM UTC-4, Eric Greenwell wrote:
> On 3/23/2022 4:36 AM, youngbl...@gmail.com wrote:
> > On Tuesday, March 22, 2022 at 10:43:41 PM UTC-4, 2G wrote:
> >> On Tuesday, March 22, 2022 at 6:26:56 AM UTC-7, youngbl...@gmail.com wrote:
> >>> On Monday, March 21, 2022 at 10:50:21 PM UTC-4, jonatha...@gmail.com wrote:
> >>>> The "current" generation of glider pilots is the same generation that started in the 80's. We just have more money and less time and MUCH less patience, so why not buy electronics and save that aging brain power for solving the world's problems, you know, the problems made worse by each successive generation.
> >>>> On Tuesday, March 15, 2022 at 4:29:05 PM UTC-7, youngbl...@gmail.com wrote:
> >>>>> I was having a good discussion with an old friend just the other day, we were discussing the changed aspects of soaring and how much has been lost by the newer generation of glider pilots. The correct term should probably be the current generation of glider pilots. My oh my have things changed, no longer are we cutting up sectionals and smoking the barograph and filling out flight declaration sheets to tape on the vertical fin and take a picture to confirm our flight, no need for the kodak 120 film and cameras to use while passing the turn point, not this somewhat grenade 20km almost turn point. I would like to take one of these Starbuck fliers as I call them, turn off all gps assistance no grenade turn points and give then the Old Bob, The Purist, flight task of the day and just see how well they would do.. Oh, Tape those motor doors shut ! E9, 41, Bennie, EA, and Pablo would be laughing. Old Bob, The Purist
> >>> Jonathan, by no means is the current generation of glider pilots the same as the generations past, no comparison! Yes, the technology has changed and has had a huge impact on glider flights, along with the increased performance in modern larger ships. Old Bob, The Purist
> >> Yeah, the current generation of pilots fly motorgliders so they don't have to put up with crotchety, senile tow pilots.
> >>
> >> Tom
> > Recently I towed two self launch gliders, both had blown engines, never had that problem as a PURIST! The only senile old crotchety pilot was the pilot of the motorglider, I LMAO at the event. Old Bob, The Purist
> Oh, I've had that kind of problem with "my engine" (aka "towplane"), and many more, when I
> was a "purist". I used to be part owner of a towplane, and it was one damn thing after
> another, mostly engine problems, but also brakes, radio, battery, down for an annual or
> AD, and increasingly for our club - finding pilots that could fly a tail dragger. I've
> missed fewer soaring opportunities since I got a self-launcher, and fewer headaches
> keeping it operating. With a motorglider, you have two independent ways to get launched;
> "purists" have only one, though in 26 years, I've never needed the towplane option.
> --
> Eric Greenwell - USA
> - "A Guide to Self-launching Sailplane Operation"
> https://sites.google.com/site/motorgliders/publications
Eric, go buy a lotto ticket. your engine or motorglider luck is better than most, but don't hold your breath. That towplane might just come in handy one day soon, that engine wont last forever, they named that motor Solo, because it is reliable for only one flight. Old Bob, The Purist

On 3/23/2022 3:24 PM, youngbl...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Wednesday, March 23, 2022 at 8:58:50 AM UTC-4, Eric Greenwell wrote:
>> On 3/23/2022 4:36 AM, youngbl...@gmail.com wrote:
>>>...
>>>>
>>>> Tom
>>> Recently I towed two self launch gliders, both had blown engines, never had that problem as a PURIST! The only senile old crotchety pilot was the pilot of the motorglider, I LMAO at the event. Old Bob, The Purist
>> Oh, I've had that kind of problem with "my engine" (aka "towplane"), and many more, when I
>> was a "purist". I used to be part owner of a towplane, and it was one damn thing after
>> another, mostly engine problems, but also brakes, radio, battery, down for an annual or
>> AD, and increasingly for our club - finding pilots that could fly a tail dragger. I've
>> missed fewer soaring opportunities since I got a self-launcher, and fewer headaches
>> keeping it operating. With a motorglider, you have two independent ways to get launched;
>> "purists" have only one, though in 26 years, I've never needed the towplane option.
>> --
>> Eric Greenwell - USA
>> - "A Guide to Self-launching Sailplane Operation"
>> https://sites.google.com/site/motorgliders/publications
> Eric, go buy a lotto ticket. your engine or motorglider luck is better than most, but don't hold your breath. That towplane might just come in handy one day soon, that engine wont last forever, they named that motor Solo, because it is reliable for only one flight. Old Bob, The Purist

Schleicher self-launchers use a Wankel engine, a rotary "four-stroke" design produced by
Austro Engines. It's much lower vibration gives it very good reliability; even so, I'm not
removing my towhook. 200 hours on the engine, 4300 hours on the airframe, probably 1500
starts.

--
Eric Greenwell - USA
- "A Guide to Self-launching Sailplane Operation"
https://sites.google.com/site/motorgliders/publications

On Monday, March 21, 2022 at 7:35:07 PM UTC-4, Dan Marotta wrote:
> Hey Walt,
>
> I was an E-5 before I was an O-1 and I always listened to senior NCOs!
> I got out as the result of a pissing match between me and the personnel
> center. I wanted an F-16 and the best they could offer was an F-15. So
> I got out as an O-3.
>
> Dan

Dan, I wanted to make the USAF a career, didn't have the money for college out of high school, had the grades, had the test scores but with the draft breathing down my neck I enlisted. Went to comm/crypto school, became a cryptographic account manager among other things (combat aircrew member in Vietnam) and was trying like hell to get some college courses. Even with extension schools all the TDYs I did made it near impossible but I tried. Saw my NCOIC/Superintendent get his 45 year old ass chewed by 1st lt who couldn't find his ass with both hands. My last commander was pulling every string in the book to get me into the program where you would to go school on the USAF dime, had to qual for pilot/nav and when you graduated you had a 6 year commitment. I was too old for the program at the time. That particular NCOIC had a masters degree in math, a good thing in the crypto world, (in those days crypto was crypto, off line encryption of classified information). he was trying for a commission but kept being denied. I would have flown anything thrown at me. Really enjoyed the service over all, with a few exceptions it's a good place to be.

Walt Connelly

On Wednesday, March 23, 2022 at 4:36:29 AM UTC-7, youngbl...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Tuesday, March 22, 2022 at 10:43:41 PM UTC-4, 2G wrote:
> > On Tuesday, March 22, 2022 at 6:26:56 AM UTC-7, youngbl...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > On Monday, March 21, 2022 at 10:50:21 PM UTC-4, jonatha...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > > The "current" generation of glider pilots is the same generation that started in the 80's. We just have more money and less time and MUCH less patience, so why not buy electronics and save that aging brain power for solving the world's problems, you know, the problems made worse by each successive generation.
> > > > On Tuesday, March 15, 2022 at 4:29:05 PM UTC-7, youngbl...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > > > I was having a good discussion with an old friend just the other day, we were discussing the changed aspects of soaring and how much has been lost by the newer generation of glider pilots. The correct term should probably be the current generation of glider pilots. My oh my have things changed, no longer are we cutting up sectionals and smoking the barograph and filling out flight declaration sheets to tape on the vertical fin and take a picture to confirm our flight, no need for the kodak 120 film and cameras to use while passing the turn point, not this somewhat grenade 20km almost turn point. I would like to take one of these Starbuck fliers as I call them, turn off all gps assistance no grenade turn points and give then the Old Bob, The Purist, flight task of the day and just see how well they would do. Oh, Tape those motor doors shut ! E9, 41, Bennie, EA, and Pablo would be laughing. Old Bob, The Purist
> > > Jonathan, by no means is the current generation of glider pilots the same as the generations past, no comparison! Yes, the technology has changed and has had a huge impact on glider flights, along with the increased performance in modern larger ships. Old Bob, The Purist
> > Yeah, the current generation of pilots fly motorgliders so they don't have to put up with crotchety, senile tow pilots.
> >
> > Tom
> Recently I towed two self launch gliders, both had blown engines, never had that problem as a PURIST! The only senile old crotchety pilot was the pilot of the motorglider, I LMAO at the event. Old Bob, The Purist

The mentally defective ALWAYS think that they are "normal"

> The mentally defective ALWAYS think that they are "normal"

One of my favorite responses to spectators that called me crazy for flying hang gliders was:

"Ma'am, when you are dealing with crazy people, it is inadvisable to bring it to their attention."

On Wednesday, March 23, 2022 at 5:58:50 AM UTC-7, Eric Greenwell wrote:
> On 3/23/2022 4:36 AM, youngbl...@gmail.com wrote:
> > On Tuesday, March 22, 2022 at 10:43:41 PM UTC-4, 2G wrote:
> >> On Tuesday, March 22, 2022 at 6:26:56 AM UTC-7, youngbl...@gmail.com wrote:
> >>> On Monday, March 21, 2022 at 10:50:21 PM UTC-4, jonatha...@gmail.com wrote:
> >>>> The "current" generation of glider pilots is the same generation that started in the 80's. We just have more money and less time and MUCH less patience, so why not buy electronics and save that aging brain power for solving the world's problems, you know, the problems made worse by each successive generation.
> >>>> On Tuesday, March 15, 2022 at 4:29:05 PM UTC-7, youngbl...@gmail.com wrote:
> >>>>> I was having a good discussion with an old friend just the other day, we were discussing the changed aspects of soaring and how much has been lost by the newer generation of glider pilots. The correct term should probably be the current generation of glider pilots. My oh my have things changed, no longer are we cutting up sectionals and smoking the barograph and filling out flight declaration sheets to tape on the vertical fin and take a picture to confirm our flight, no need for the kodak 120 film and cameras to use while passing the turn point, not this somewhat grenade 20km almost turn point. I would like to take one of these Starbuck fliers as I call them, turn off all gps assistance no grenade turn points and give then the Old Bob, The Purist, flight task of the day and just see how well they would do.. Oh, Tape those motor doors shut ! E9, 41, Bennie, EA, and Pablo would be laughing. Old Bob, The Purist
> >>> Jonathan, by no means is the current generation of glider pilots the same as the generations past, no comparison! Yes, the technology has changed and has had a huge impact on glider flights, along with the increased performance in modern larger ships. Old Bob, The Purist
> >> Yeah, the current generation of pilots fly motorgliders so they don't have to put up with crotchety, senile tow pilots.
> >>
> >> Tom
> > Recently I towed two self launch gliders, both had blown engines, never had that problem as a PURIST! The only senile old crotchety pilot was the pilot of the motorglider, I LMAO at the event. Old Bob, The Purist
> Oh, I've had that kind of problem with "my engine" (aka "towplane"), and many more, when I
> was a "purist". I used to be part owner of a towplane, and it was one damn thing after
> another, mostly engine problems, but also brakes, radio, battery, down for an annual or
> AD, and increasingly for our club - finding pilots that could fly a tail dragger. I've
> missed fewer soaring opportunities since I got a self-launcher, and fewer headaches
> keeping it operating. With a motorglider, you have two independent ways to get launched;
> "purists" have only one, though in 26 years, I've never needed the towplane option.
> --
> Eric Greenwell - USA
> - "A Guide to Self-launching Sailplane Operation"
> https://sites.google.com/site/motorgliders/publications

You left out the year that we had to recover the plane. We ended up selling it because of a spar AD that came out on a sister model, and our concern that the same could happen to the 7KCAB. In fact, an AD did come out that required regular spar inspection (with repair/replace if damage was found). Don't buy a plane with a wood spar.

Tom

On 3/25/2022 10:19 PM, 2G wrote:
>
> You left out the year that we had to recover the plane. We ended up selling it because of a spar AD that came out on a sister model, and our concern that the same could happen to the 7KCAB. In fact, an AD did come out that required regular spar inspection (with repair/replace if damage was found). Don't buy a plane with a wood spar.
>
> Tom
>

Years ago I used to own a 1940's Champ with a wooden spar. When I was
in turbulence I was thinking about the fact that that wood was probably
growing during the civil war.

On Friday, March 25, 2022 at 7:52:07 PM UTC-7, Moshe Braner wrote:
> On 3/25/2022 10:19 PM, 2G wrote:
> >
> > You left out the year that we had to recover the plane. We ended up selling it because of a spar AD that came out on a sister model, and our concern that the same could happen to the 7KCAB. In fact, an AD did come out that required regular spar inspection (with repair/replace if damage was found). Don't buy a plane with a wood spar.
> >
> > Tom
> >
> Years ago I used to own a 1940's Champ with a wooden spar. When I was
> in turbulence I was thinking about the fact that that wood was probably
> growing during the civil war.

Wood was much stronger then (no joke!).

Tom