The problem with accidents is that they are ALL unlikely. No matter if we knew the actual cause, we would all still agree “seems unlikely.” If it were likely, we’d fix it.

I try to live by giving myself permission to screw things up…once. Not learning from a mistake is what is unforgivable. It is such a shame that we cannot learn anything from so many of these accidents and are doomed to see them repeat. Who will be the next seasoned glider pilot that disappears in unlikely circumstances? What are YOU doing to make sure your friends and family know what really happened to you? The past is written, but the future is open for change.

Here is probably the last photo of N22XC and maybe Sergio taken the day before the accident with me in the front over Mt. Rose. Such a shame we lost such a great person trying to raise the next generation of glider pilots.

https://share.icloud.com/photos/0d1W_W0ODN_lqowcC2mIHcxFg

On Saturday, March 26, 2022 at 2:41:39 PM UTC-7, johnsin...@yahoo.com wrote:
> On Friday, March 25, 2022 at 7:54:53 PM UTC-7, Ramy wrote:
> > Yes we collected igc files from all glider flying that day and sent to flarm, even before the glider was recovered. They were able to reconstruct the flight up to just before the initial trouble when they were at 14K over Mt Rose. We shared the findings with NCSA and they used the data, together with primary radar data, to reconstruct the flight. Still the question remained, what started the initial sequence of events. We will likely never know.
> >
> > Buzz also made an excellent point about the importance of trackers, flarm, ADSB and OGN for SAR and accident analysis.
> >
> > Ramy
> > On Friday, March 25, 2022 at 1:05:08 PM UTC-7, georg...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > The docket airworthiness report indicates that fire damaged wires and instruments were found, but there's no inventory or photos.
> > >
> > > Was there any effort to see if data could be retrieved from the PowerFLARM?
> > >
> > > Even if damaged, the Flarm people may have a way to read it. Keep in mind that the usual four second recording interval is limited information.
> 50 years ago, USAF accident reports often contained a statement like, “ pilot allowed the aircraft to assume an attitude from which, recovery was not possible “. Maybe we’re looking at something like this here? Speculation, sure, but that’s all we have and all we will ever have!
>
> The pilot flying experiences a heart attack, but he doesn’t realize it and keeps on trying to pilot the ship? Very shortly, the nose is down and so is one wing? Now there’s trees and rocks up there where blue sky is supposed to be. About this time, the other pilot becomes concerned and jumps on the controls…………….. were they in an attitude from which, recovery was not possible?
> JJ

> Here is probably the last photo of N22XC and maybe Sergio taken the day before the accident with me in the front over Mt. Rose. Such a shame we lost such a great person trying to raise the next generation of glider pilots.

Nice photo Philip. So Sergio did make use of his shoulder straps as most of us would.

Yes I noticed the same. This photo explains why the shoulder straps were not engaged in one of the buckles. Another pilot also recalled that Sergio was not using shoulder straps.
So at least we can remove all speculations that were related to the shoulder straps not connected.

Ramy

On Thursday, March 31, 2022 at 10:12:17 AM UTC-7, Darren Braun wrote:
> > Here is probably the last photo of N22XC and maybe Sergio taken the day before the accident with me in the front over Mt. Rose. Such a shame we lost such a great person trying to raise the next generation of glider pilots.
> Nice photo Philip. So Sergio did make use of his shoulder straps as most of us would.

On Thursday, March 31, 2022 at 7:25:49 PM UTC-7, Ramy wrote:
> Yes I noticed the same. This photo explains why the shoulder straps were not engaged in one of the buckles. Another pilot also recalled that Sergio was not using shoulder straps.
> So at least we can remove all speculations that were related to the shoulder straps not connected.
>
> Ramy
> On Thursday, March 31, 2022 at 10:12:17 AM UTC-7, Darren Braun wrote:
> > > Here is probably the last photo of N22XC and maybe Sergio taken the day before the accident with me in the front over Mt. Rose. Such a shame we lost such a great person trying to raise the next generation of glider pilots.
> > Nice photo Philip. So Sergio did make use of his shoulder straps as most of us would.

Hi guys,

We may be at the point of having the technology to develop & manufacture small, portable, rugged, dependable flight recorder+cockpit voice recorders for small GA airplanes and gliders. Because of the many unexplained accidents which we're constantly being reminded of, this necessity to know the reasons that caused them may now be the mother of invention for such a device. I have read that there is a similar recorder inside the G1000 and other flat-panel displays used by many of the Technically Advanced Aircraft that have been manufactured over the last decade or two. They now record all engine parameters and flight parameters, though I'm not sure about the positions of controls and control surfaces. For gliders, it wouldn't be difficult to make a rugged device (sustain 100+G deceleration) that could record the audio environment inside the glider with a 30 minute write-over time span. And though you wouldn't really have the ability to know the positions of the controls and control surfaces, the device could employ G-meters and very sensitive 3-dimensional accelerometers which could record data for the immediate past few minutes of a flight. I'm sure there are computer simulations or algorithms that could take the data and figure out what was going on with the control inputs which generated those packets of data (slip; skid; roll; spin; zoom climb; nose-down pitch & dive; overspeed/overstress; etc.). Heck, the automobile manufacturers are now putting these types of recorders on many of their cars so they can better analyze accidents and what the driver may have been doing along the way (eg. speeding, drunk, side show, etc). It shouldn't be that big of a jump to take this technology and put it into something about the size and expense of a PLB, Spot, InReach, etc.

Entrepreneurs and tech guys, roll up your sleeves and get busy!

What's one more gadget when we're already carrying a handheld radio; Spot or InReach; land-out kit; cell phone; flight recorder; PFlarm; PLB; etc.

Quest

On Thursday, March 31, 2022 at 10:25:49 PM UTC-4, Ramy wrote:
> Yes I noticed the same. This photo explains why the shoulder straps were not engaged in one of the buckles. Another pilot also recalled that Sergio was not using shoulder straps.
> So at least we can remove all speculations that were related to the shoulder straps not connected.
>
> Ramy
> On Thursday, March 31, 2022 at 10:12:17 AM UTC-7, Darren Braun wrote:
> > > Here is probably the last photo of N22XC and maybe Sergio taken the day before the accident with me in the front over Mt. Rose. Such a shame we lost such a great person trying to raise the next generation of glider pilots.
> > Nice photo Philip. So Sergio did make use of his shoulder straps as most of us would.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Ramy, the blue shoulder strap is visible just underneath his collar
just like on the front seater too.

RO

Indeed, I missed the shoulder strap the first time I looked at the photo. Although it would make sense for it to be there even if he didn’t connect them. Thanks for pointing this out.

Ramy

On Friday, April 1, 2022 at 5:12:40 AM UTC-7, mrop...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Thursday, March 31, 2022 at 10:25:49 PM UTC-4, Ramy wrote:
> > Yes I noticed the same. This photo explains why the shoulder straps were not engaged in one of the buckles. Another pilot also recalled that Sergio was not using shoulder straps.
> > So at least we can remove all speculations that were related to the shoulder straps not connected.
> >
> > Ramy
> > On Thursday, March 31, 2022 at 10:12:17 AM UTC-7, Darren Braun wrote:
> > > > Here is probably the last photo of N22XC and maybe Sergio taken the day before the accident with me in the front over Mt. Rose. Such a shame we lost such a great person trying to raise the next generation of glider pilots.
> > > Nice photo Philip. So Sergio did make use of his shoulder straps as most of us would.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> Ramy, the blue shoulder strap is visible just underneath his collar
> just like on the front seater too.
>
> RO

Having lost another friend in soaring due to a medical seizer his passenger experienced, I still think this is a possibility in this tragic accident. Be barely survived with serious back injuries, while passenger in the front seat did not. Later it was revealed the passenger was taking a ride with his doctor at the field to over come flight anxieties. His patient had epilepsy, all around a bad situation for everyone. In this DOU accident, the medical findings indicate there were some serious heart problems found in the older pilot. If it were your friend in the other seat having problems, would you stay with them or bail out to save yourself? Thinking this through, it is rarely talked about and how well both pilots are ready to handle a bail situation. The subject about wanting to have a safety pilot as you no longer trust your skills or have medical condition should not be taken likely, especially when you are putting the other pilot at risk. After 40 years of instructing thousands of2-32 tourist flights in Hawaii, there have been a few times I have refused to fly with some who have willingly made the self declaration they are OK when it was obvious there were not. If you ask someone to be your safety pilot, think again what you are asking.
Buzz Graves

On Monday, 4 April 2022 at 17:30:29 UTC+1, BG wrote:
> Having lost another friend in soaring due to a medical seizer his passenger experienced, I still think this is a possibility in this tragic accident.. Be barely survived with serious back injuries, while passenger in the front seat did not. Later it was revealed the passenger was taking a ride with his doctor at the field to over come flight anxieties. His patient had epilepsy, all around a bad situation for everyone. In this DOU accident, the medical findings indicate there were some serious heart problems found in the older pilot. If it were your friend in the other seat having problems, would you stay with them or bail out to save yourself? Thinking this through, it is rarely talked about and how well both pilots are ready to handle a bail situation. The subject about wanting to have a safety pilot as you no longer trust your skills or have medical condition should not be taken likely, especially when you are putting the other pilot at risk. After 40 years of instructing thousands of2-32 tourist flights in Hawaii, there have been a few times I have refused to fly with some who have willingly made the self declaration they are OK when it was obvious there were not. If you ask someone to be your safety pilot, think again what you are asking.
> Buzz Graves
In the UK there has been clarification that there is no such thing as a safety pilot. If you need a safety pilot you must not fly as pilot in charge - the person you might want to have as safety pilot must be pilot in charge and must be suitably qualified as such.

In the USA, when practicing instrument flight in VMC using a vision
restricting device, you must have a safety pilot. You can do it solo in
the weather.
Dan
5J
On 4/4/22 15:53, waremark wrote:
> On Monday, 4 April 2022 at 17:30:29 UTC+1, BG wrote:
>> Having lost another friend in soaring due to a medical seizer his passenger experienced, I still think this is a possibility in this tragic accident. Be barely survived with serious back injuries, while passenger in the front seat did not. Later it was revealed the passenger was taking a ride with his doctor at the field to over come flight anxieties. His patient had epilepsy, all around a bad situation for everyone. In this DOU accident, the medical findings indicate there were some serious heart problems found in the older pilot. If it were your friend in the other seat having problems, would you stay with them or bail out to save yourself? Thinking this through, it is rarely talked about and how well both pilots are ready to handle a bail situation. The subject about wanting to have a safety pilot as you no longer trust your skills or have medical condition should not be taken likely, especially when you are putting the other pilot at risk. After 40 years of instructing thousands of2-32 tourist flights in Hawaii, there have been a few times I have refused to fly with some who have willingly made the self declaration they are OK when it was obvious there were not. If you ask someone to be your safety pilot, think again what you are asking.
>> Buzz Graves
> In the UK there has been clarification that there is no such thing as a safety pilot. If you need a safety pilot you must not fly as pilot in charge - the person you might want to have as safety pilot must be pilot in charge and must be suitably qualified as such.

>In the UK there has been clarification that there is no such thing as a safety pilot. If you need a safety pilot you must not fly as pilot in charge - the person you might want to have as safety pilot must >be pilot in charge and must be suitably qualified as such.

I'm perfused. What if 2 safety pilots show up to fly in the same glider?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VQGFLxadGiM

That AH put his hand on the canopy while looking inside...

Dan
5J

On 4/4/22 19:27, Dee wrote:
>> In the UK there has been clarification that there is no such thing as a safety pilot. If you need a safety pilot you must not fly as pilot in charge - the person you might want to have as safety pilot must >be pilot in charge and must be suitably qualified as such.
>
> I'm perfused. What if 2 safety pilots show up to fly in the same glider?
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VQGFLxadGiM