2 incidents and 1 fatality this week in Jacksonville.

https://www.news4jax.com/news/local/2022/04/16/jfrd-at-least-1-dead-after-aircraft-goes-down-in-woods-near-herlong-airport/

https://www.asias.faa.gov/apex/f?p=100:93:::NO:::

On Sunday, April 17, 2022 at 10:36:12 AM UTC-4, Darren Braun wrote:
> 2 incidents and 1 fatality this week in Jacksonville.
>
> https://www.news4jax.com/news/local/2022/04/16/jfrd-at-least-1-dead-after-aircraft-goes-down-in-woods-near-herlong-airport/
>
> https://www.asias.faa.gov/apex/f?p=100:93:::NO:::

I spoke with a senior club member in Jacksonville this morning. The NTSB is on site today to check the control integrity and hookups. I'm pretty sure we all have an immediate assumption as to what happened and how it could have been prevented.

We should note that his releasing at a low altitude could very well have saved the tow pilot from an unrecoverable kiting upset.

RIP

PA

Tragic as always!
But always encouraging to hear “experts” ensuring us how safe gliding I’m fact is, and how rare accidents are.
After all, we fly low and slow, and don’t carry fuel, so what could possibly go wrong?

Ramy

On Sunday, April 17, 2022 at 9:10:59 AM UTC-7, bluej...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Sunday, April 17, 2022 at 10:36:12 AM UTC-4, Darren Braun wrote:
> > 2 incidents and 1 fatality this week in Jacksonville.
> >
> > https://www.news4jax.com/news/local/2022/04/16/jfrd-at-least-1-dead-after-aircraft-goes-down-in-woods-near-herlong-airport/
> >
> > https://www.asias.faa.gov/apex/f?p=100:93:::NO:::
> I spoke with a senior club member in Jacksonville this morning. The NTSB is on site today to check the control integrity and hookups. I'm pretty sure we all have an immediate assumption as to what happened and how it could have been prevented.
>
> We should note that his releasing at a low altitude could very well have saved the tow pilot from an unrecoverable kiting upset.
>
> RIP
>
> PA

On Sunday, April 17, 2022 at 10:30:22 AM UTC-7, Ramy wrote:
> Tragic as always!
> But always encouraging to hear “experts” ensuring us how safe gliding I’m fact is, and how rare accidents are.
> After all, we fly low and slow, and don’t carry fuel, so what could possibly go wrong?
>
> Ramy
> On Sunday, April 17, 2022 at 9:10:59 AM UTC-7, bluej...@gmail.com wrote:
> > On Sunday, April 17, 2022 at 10:36:12 AM UTC-4, Darren Braun wrote:
> > > 2 incidents and 1 fatality this week in Jacksonville.
> > >
> > > https://www.news4jax.com/news/local/2022/04/16/jfrd-at-least-1-dead-after-aircraft-goes-down-in-woods-near-herlong-airport/
> > >
> > > https://www.asias.faa.gov/apex/f?p=100:93:::NO:::
> > I spoke with a senior club member in Jacksonville this morning. The NTSB is on site today to check the control integrity and hookups. I'm pretty sure we all have an immediate assumption as to what happened and how it could have been prevented.
> >
> > We should note that his releasing at a low altitude could very well have saved the tow pilot from an unrecoverable kiting upset.
> >
> > RIP
> >
> > PA

Probably missed a control check prior to launch or a failure under pressure just afterwards. Can you imagine the police lieutenant describing the pilot as a white male...

A valuable question was asked in the ASW19 Owners group. "What is the difference between a Positive Control Check and a Critical Assembly Check?"

From the FAA Glider Handbook - Ch 6 Preflight and Ground Operations:

"Many manufacturers provide a critical assembly checklist
(CAC) to be completed after assembly, which is the preferred
method of ensuring a proper assembly has been completed.
When provided by the manufacturer, it is mandatory. A
positive control check (PCC) is not a CAC, but an additional
means of verification. If a CAC is provided, it must be used
as is any other checklist a manufacturer provides. A PCC is
not regulatory, but it is a good idea whether or not you just
completed the required CAC."

I found some valuable links worth looking at:

https://www.lescsoaring.com/docs/ControlChecks.pdf

https://www.faa.gov/sites/faa.gov/files/regulations_policies/handbooks_manuals/aviation/glider_handbook/gfh_appendix_A.pdf

Make good decisions!

Paul A.

On Monday, April 18, 2022 at 11:24:28 AM UTC-7, bluej...@gmail.com wrote:
> A valuable question was asked in the ASW19 Owners group. "What is the difference between a Positive Control Check and a Critical Assembly Check?"
>
> From the FAA Glider Handbook - Ch 6 Preflight and Ground Operations:
>
> "Many manufacturers provide a critical assembly checklist
> (CAC) to be completed after assembly, which is the preferred
> method of ensuring a proper assembly has been completed.
> When provided by the manufacturer, it is mandatory. A
> positive control check (PCC) is not a CAC, but an additional
> means of verification. If a CAC is provided, it must be used
> as is any other checklist a manufacturer provides. A PCC is
> not regulatory, but it is a good idea whether or not you just
> completed the required CAC."
>
> I found some valuable links worth looking at:
>
> https://www.lescsoaring.com/docs/ControlChecks.pdf
>
> https://www.faa.gov/sites/faa.gov/files/regulations_policies/handbooks_manuals/aviation/glider_handbook/gfh_appendix_A.pdf
>
> Make good decisions!
>
> Paul A.

If this turns out to be a disconnected elevator, what is puzzling is a simple visual check of the Hotellier connection would have discovered the error.. On my DG400 I always did a positive pull test on the Hotellier connections as a so-called positive control check did not confirm that the connector was properly seated on the ball and the plunger was in the proper position. I also safetied the plunger, which it doesn't sound like that happened.

Tom

On Tuesday, April 19, 2022 at 11:45:00 PM UTC-4, 2G wrote:
> On Monday, April 18, 2022 at 11:24:28 AM UTC-7, bluej...@gmail.com wrote:
> > A valuable question was asked in the ASW19 Owners group. "What is the difference between a Positive Control Check and a Critical Assembly Check?"
> >
> > From the FAA Glider Handbook - Ch 6 Preflight and Ground Operations:
> >
> > "Many manufacturers provide a critical assembly checklist
> > (CAC) to be completed after assembly, which is the preferred
> > method of ensuring a proper assembly has been completed.
> > When provided by the manufacturer, it is mandatory. A
> > positive control check (PCC) is not a CAC, but an additional
> > means of verification. If a CAC is provided, it must be used
> > as is any other checklist a manufacturer provides. A PCC is
> > not regulatory, but it is a good idea whether or not you just
> > completed the required CAC."
> >
> > I found some valuable links worth looking at:
> >
> > https://www.lescsoaring.com/docs/ControlChecks.pdf
> >
> > https://www.faa.gov/sites/faa.gov/files/regulations_policies/handbooks_manuals/aviation/glider_handbook/gfh_appendix_A.pdf
> >
> > Make good decisions!
> >
> > Paul A.
> If this turns out to be a disconnected elevator, what is puzzling is a simple visual check of the Hotellier connection would have discovered the error. On my DG400 I always did a positive pull test on the Hotellier connections as a so-called positive control check did not confirm that the connector was properly seated on the ball and the plunger was in the proper position. I also safetied the plunger, which it doesn't sound like that happened.
>
> Tom
A visual confirmation that the safety pin is in is a very big help.
I have found 2 on the line "ready to launch" with non connected elevators.
UH

On Wednesday, April 20, 2022 at 11:02:20 AM UTC-4, Hank Nixon wrote:
> On Tuesday, April 19, 2022 at 11:45:00 PM UTC-4, 2G wrote:
> > On Monday, April 18, 2022 at 11:24:28 AM UTC-7, bluej...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > A valuable question was asked in the ASW19 Owners group. "What is the difference between a Positive Control Check and a Critical Assembly Check?"
> > >
> > > From the FAA Glider Handbook - Ch 6 Preflight and Ground Operations:
> > >
> > > "Many manufacturers provide a critical assembly checklist
> > > (CAC) to be completed after assembly, which is the preferred
> > > method of ensuring a proper assembly has been completed.
> > > When provided by the manufacturer, it is mandatory. A
> > > positive control check (PCC) is not a CAC, but an additional
> > > means of verification. If a CAC is provided, it must be used
> > > as is any other checklist a manufacturer provides. A PCC is
> > > not regulatory, but it is a good idea whether or not you just
> > > completed the required CAC."
> > >
> > > I found some valuable links worth looking at:
> > >
> > > https://www.lescsoaring.com/docs/ControlChecks.pdf
> > >
> > > https://www.faa.gov/sites/faa.gov/files/regulations_policies/handbooks_manuals/aviation/glider_handbook/gfh_appendix_A.pdf
> > >
> > > Make good decisions!
> > >
> > > Paul A.
> > If this turns out to be a disconnected elevator, what is puzzling is a simple visual check of the Hotellier connection would have discovered the error. On my DG400 I always did a positive pull test on the Hotellier connections as a so-called positive control check did not confirm that the connector was properly seated on the ball and the plunger was in the proper position. I also safetied the plunger, which it doesn't sound like that happened..
> >
> > Tom
> A visual confirmation that the safety pin is in is a very big help.
> I have found 2 on the line "ready to launch" with non connected elevators..
> UH

Of course knowing where the safety pin goes is also kind'a important. We found a club ship fully assembled with the safety pins in the big hole on the backside of the wedge, effectively preventing the wedge to close properly!
How did that saying about the idiot-proofing a design go again .... ?

Uli
'AS'

If something can be forgotten, it will be forgotten. No checklists will prevent it, since checklists are normally the first thing that get forgotten.
We need to design systems as fool proof as possible, with a very low likelihood that something critical can be forgotten. Modern gliders are pretty close to it. Not sure about motorgliders.

Ramy

On Thursday, April 21, 2022 at 12:41:28 PM UTC-7, AS wrote:
> On Wednesday, April 20, 2022 at 11:02:20 AM UTC-4, Hank Nixon wrote:
> > On Tuesday, April 19, 2022 at 11:45:00 PM UTC-4, 2G wrote:
> > > On Monday, April 18, 2022 at 11:24:28 AM UTC-7, bluej...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > > A valuable question was asked in the ASW19 Owners group. "What is the difference between a Positive Control Check and a Critical Assembly Check?"
> > > >
> > > > From the FAA Glider Handbook - Ch 6 Preflight and Ground Operations:
> > > >
> > > > "Many manufacturers provide a critical assembly checklist
> > > > (CAC) to be completed after assembly, which is the preferred
> > > > method of ensuring a proper assembly has been completed.
> > > > When provided by the manufacturer, it is mandatory. A
> > > > positive control check (PCC) is not a CAC, but an additional
> > > > means of verification. If a CAC is provided, it must be used
> > > > as is any other checklist a manufacturer provides. A PCC is
> > > > not regulatory, but it is a good idea whether or not you just
> > > > completed the required CAC."
> > > >
> > > > I found some valuable links worth looking at:
> > > >
> > > > https://www.lescsoaring.com/docs/ControlChecks.pdf
> > > >
> > > > https://www.faa.gov/sites/faa.gov/files/regulations_policies/handbooks_manuals/aviation/glider_handbook/gfh_appendix_A.pdf
> > > >
> > > > Make good decisions!
> > > >
> > > > Paul A.
> > > If this turns out to be a disconnected elevator, what is puzzling is a simple visual check of the Hotellier connection would have discovered the error. On my DG400 I always did a positive pull test on the Hotellier connections as a so-called positive control check did not confirm that the connector was properly seated on the ball and the plunger was in the proper position. I also safetied the plunger, which it doesn't sound like that happened.
> > >
> > > Tom
> > A visual confirmation that the safety pin is in is a very big help.
> > I have found 2 on the line "ready to launch" with non connected elevators.
> > UH
> Of course knowing where the safety pin goes is also kind'a important. We found a club ship fully assembled with the safety pins in the big hole on the backside of the wedge, effectively preventing the wedge to close properly!
> How did that saying about the idiot-proofing a design go again .... ?
>
> Uli
> 'AS'

I agree. When I went looking for my first glider in 1976, I already knew I wanted
automatic elevator hookup, because an unconnected elevator was a prime cause of accidents
then. Eventually, all new gliders had automatic hookups of all controls, and that source
of accidents is almost zero now. A motor is a potential source of problems, but I can't
think of ones that cause safety problems if you skip an item on the preflight checklist.

On 4/21/2022 5:13 PM, Ramy wrote:
> If something can be forgotten, it will be forgotten. No checklists will prevent it, since checklists are normally the first thing that get forgotten.
> We need to design systems as fool proof as possible, with a very low likelihood that something critical can be forgotten. Modern gliders are pretty close to it. Not sure about motorgliders.
>
> Ramy
>
> On Thursday, April 21, 2022 at 12:41:28 PM UTC-7, AS wrote:
>> On Wednesday, April 20, 2022 at 11:02:20 AM UTC-4, Hank Nixon wrote:
>>> On Tuesday, April 19, 2022 at 11:45:00 PM UTC-4, 2G wrote:
>>>> On Monday, April 18, 2022 at 11:24:28 AM UTC-7, bluej...@gmail.com wrote:
>>>>> A valuable question was asked in the ASW19 Owners group. "What is the difference between a Positive Control Check and a Critical Assembly Check?"
>>>>>
>>>>> From the FAA Glider Handbook - Ch 6 Preflight and Ground Operations:
>>>>>
>>>>> "Many manufacturers provide a critical assembly checklist
>>>>> (CAC) to be completed after assembly, which is the preferred
>>>>> method of ensuring a proper assembly has been completed.
>>>>> When provided by the manufacturer, it is mandatory. A
>>>>> positive control check (PCC) is not a CAC, but an additional
>>>>> means of verification. If a CAC is provided, it must be used
>>>>> as is any other checklist a manufacturer provides. A PCC is
>>>>> not regulatory, but it is a good idea whether or not you just
>>>>> completed the required CAC."
>>>>>
>>>>> I found some valuable links worth looking at:
>>>>>
>>>>> https://www.lescsoaring.com/docs/ControlChecks.pdf
>>>>>
>>>>> https://www.faa.gov/sites/faa.gov/files/regulations_policies/handbooks_manuals/aviation/glider_handbook/gfh_appendix_A.pdf
>>>>>
>>>>> Make good decisions!
>>>>>
>>>>> Paul A.
>>>> If this turns out to be a disconnected elevator, what is puzzling is a simple visual check of the Hotellier connection would have discovered the error. On my DG400 I always did a positive pull test on the Hotellier connections as a so-called positive control check did not confirm that the connector was properly seated on the ball and the plunger was in the proper position. I also safetied the plunger, which it doesn't sound like that happened.
>>>>
>>>> Tom
>>> A visual confirmation that the safety pin is in is a very big help.
>>> I have found 2 on the line "ready to launch" with non connected elevators.
>>> UH
>> Of course knowing where the safety pin goes is also kind'a important. We found a club ship fully assembled with the safety pins in the big hole on the backside of the wedge, effectively preventing the wedge to close properly!
>> How did that saying about the idiot-proofing a design go again .... ?
>>
>> Uli
>> 'AS'

--
Eric Greenwell - USA
- "A Guide to Self-launching Sailplane Operation"
https://sites.google.com/site/motorgliders/publications

On Friday, April 22, 2022 at 7:05:51 AM UTC-7, Eric Greenwell wrote:
> I agree. When I went looking for my first glider in 1976, I already knew I wanted
> automatic elevator hookup, because an unconnected elevator was a prime cause of accidents
> then. Eventually, all new gliders had automatic hookups of all controls, and that source
> of accidents is almost zero now. A motor is a potential source of problems, but I can't
> think of ones that cause safety problems if you skip an item on the preflight checklist.
> On 4/21/2022 5:13 PM, Ramy wrote:
> > If something can be forgotten, it will be forgotten. No checklists will prevent it, since checklists are normally the first thing that get forgotten.
> > We need to design systems as fool proof as possible, with a very low likelihood that something critical can be forgotten. Modern gliders are pretty close to it. Not sure about motorgliders.
> >
> > Ramy
> >
> > On Thursday, April 21, 2022 at 12:41:28 PM UTC-7, AS wrote:
> >> On Wednesday, April 20, 2022 at 11:02:20 AM UTC-4, Hank Nixon wrote:
> >>> On Tuesday, April 19, 2022 at 11:45:00 PM UTC-4, 2G wrote:
> >>>> On Monday, April 18, 2022 at 11:24:28 AM UTC-7, bluej...@gmail.com wrote:
> >>>>> A valuable question was asked in the ASW19 Owners group. "What is the difference between a Positive Control Check and a Critical Assembly Check?"
> >>>>>
> >>>>> From the FAA Glider Handbook - Ch 6 Preflight and Ground Operations:
> >>>>>
> >>>>> "Many manufacturers provide a critical assembly checklist
> >>>>> (CAC) to be completed after assembly, which is the preferred
> >>>>> method of ensuring a proper assembly has been completed.
> >>>>> When provided by the manufacturer, it is mandatory. A
> >>>>> positive control check (PCC) is not a CAC, but an additional
> >>>>> means of verification. If a CAC is provided, it must be used
> >>>>> as is any other checklist a manufacturer provides. A PCC is
> >>>>> not regulatory, but it is a good idea whether or not you just
> >>>>> completed the required CAC."
> >>>>>
> >>>>> I found some valuable links worth looking at:
> >>>>>
> >>>>> https://www.lescsoaring.com/docs/ControlChecks.pdf
> >>>>>
> >>>>> https://www.faa.gov/sites/faa.gov/files/regulations_policies/handbooks_manuals/aviation/glider_handbook/gfh_appendix_A.pdf
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Make good decisions!
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Paul A.
> >>>> If this turns out to be a disconnected elevator, what is puzzling is a simple visual check of the Hotellier connection would have discovered the error. On my DG400 I always did a positive pull test on the Hotellier connections as a so-called positive control check did not confirm that the connector was properly seated on the ball and the plunger was in the proper position. I also safetied the plunger, which it doesn't sound like that happened.
> >>>>
> >>>> Tom
> >>> A visual confirmation that the safety pin is in is a very big help.
> >>> I have found 2 on the line "ready to launch" with non connected elevators.
> >>> UH
> >> Of course knowing where the safety pin goes is also kind'a important. We found a club ship fully assembled with the safety pins in the big hole on the backside of the wedge, effectively preventing the wedge to close properly!
> >> How did that saying about the idiot-proofing a design go again .... ?
> >>
> >> Uli
> >> 'AS'
> --
> Eric Greenwell - USA
> - "A Guide to Self-launching Sailplane Operation"
> https://sites.google.com/site/motorgliders/publications

Gliders with manual control hookups don't get retired, they are just sold to someone else.

Tom

On Friday, April 22, 2022 at 7:12:05 AM UTC-7, 2G wrote:
> On Friday, April 22, 2022 at 7:05:51 AM UTC-7, Eric Greenwell wrote:
> > I agree. When I went looking for my first glider in 1976, I already knew I wanted
> > automatic elevator hookup, because an unconnected elevator was a prime cause of accidents
> > then. Eventually, all new gliders had automatic hookups of all controls, and that source
> > of accidents is almost zero now. A motor is a potential source of problems, but I can't
> > think of ones that cause safety problems if you skip an item on the preflight checklist.
> > On 4/21/2022 5:13 PM, Ramy wrote:
> > > If something can be forgotten, it will be forgotten. No checklists will prevent it, since checklists are normally the first thing that get forgotten.
> > > We need to design systems as fool proof as possible, with a very low likelihood that something critical can be forgotten. Modern gliders are pretty close to it. Not sure about motorgliders.
> > >
> > > Ramy
> > >
> > > On Thursday, April 21, 2022 at 12:41:28 PM UTC-7, AS wrote:
> > >> On Wednesday, April 20, 2022 at 11:02:20 AM UTC-4, Hank Nixon wrote:
> > >>> On Tuesday, April 19, 2022 at 11:45:00 PM UTC-4, 2G wrote:
> > >>>> On Monday, April 18, 2022 at 11:24:28 AM UTC-7, bluej...@gmail.com wrote:
> > >>>>> A valuable question was asked in the ASW19 Owners group. "What is the difference between a Positive Control Check and a Critical Assembly Check?"
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> From the FAA Glider Handbook - Ch 6 Preflight and Ground Operations:
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> "Many manufacturers provide a critical assembly checklist
> > >>>>> (CAC) to be completed after assembly, which is the preferred
> > >>>>> method of ensuring a proper assembly has been completed.
> > >>>>> When provided by the manufacturer, it is mandatory. A
> > >>>>> positive control check (PCC) is not a CAC, but an additional
> > >>>>> means of verification. If a CAC is provided, it must be used
> > >>>>> as is any other checklist a manufacturer provides. A PCC is
> > >>>>> not regulatory, but it is a good idea whether or not you just
> > >>>>> completed the required CAC."
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> I found some valuable links worth looking at:
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> https://www.lescsoaring.com/docs/ControlChecks.pdf
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> https://www.faa.gov/sites/faa.gov/files/regulations_policies/handbooks_manuals/aviation/glider_handbook/gfh_appendix_A.pdf
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> Make good decisions!
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> Paul A.
> > >>>> If this turns out to be a disconnected elevator, what is puzzling is a simple visual check of the Hotellier connection would have discovered the error. On my DG400 I always did a positive pull test on the Hotellier connections as a so-called positive control check did not confirm that the connector was properly seated on the ball and the plunger was in the proper position. I also safetied the plunger, which it doesn't sound like that happened.
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Tom
> > >>> A visual confirmation that the safety pin is in is a very big help.
> > >>> I have found 2 on the line "ready to launch" with non connected elevators.
> > >>> UH
> > >> Of course knowing where the safety pin goes is also kind'a important.. We found a club ship fully assembled with the safety pins in the big hole on the backside of the wedge, effectively preventing the wedge to close properly!
> > >> How did that saying about the idiot-proofing a design go again .... ?
> > >>
> > >> Uli
> > >> 'AS'
> > --
> > Eric Greenwell - USA
> > - "A Guide to Self-launching Sailplane Operation"
> > https://sites.google.com/site/motorgliders/publications
> Gliders with manual control hookups don't get retired, they are just sold to someone else.
>
> Tom

I used something physical to prevent disconnected controls. When I had a 301 Libelle, I kept (stored) the aileron pins on the stick. If I was going to try and fly without connecting the ailerons, I had to see and feel them in my right hand because I kept them on the stick (hanging over the brake handle)!

When I got an ASW-20, I secured a long red streamer to a piece of 1” plastic hose that was kept over the disconnected elevator pushrod.. with marker pen, I wrote “7 pins connected” on the flag. After the ship was assembled and all controls connected, I would hang the flag over the elevator mount in the trailer………..where it would remind me to place the flag back over the elevator pushrod after disassembly ( ready for the next cycle)!

When 4 of us bought an ASH-25, I had stopped using a flag and twice, I failed to connect an outboard aileron, because of distractions…………….haven’t found a way to prevent someone talking to me while I’m assembling my bird?
Eternal Vigilance,
JJ

What's more important, getting airborne as quickly as possible or coming
back in one piece? I'm not in as big a hurry as I once was.

Dan
5J

On 4/21/22 18:13, Ramy wrote:
> If something can be forgotten, it will be forgotten. No checklists will prevent it, since checklists are normally the first thing that get forgotten.
> We need to design systems as fool proof as possible, with a very low likelihood that something critical can be forgotten. Modern gliders are pretty close to it. Not sure about motorgliders.
>
> Ramy
>
> On Thursday, April 21, 2022 at 12:41:28 PM UTC-7, AS wrote:
>> On Wednesday, April 20, 2022 at 11:02:20 AM UTC-4, Hank Nixon wrote:
>>> On Tuesday, April 19, 2022 at 11:45:00 PM UTC-4, 2G wrote:
>>>> On Monday, April 18, 2022 at 11:24:28 AM UTC-7, bluej...@gmail.com wrote:
>>>>> A valuable question was asked in the ASW19 Owners group. "What is the difference between a Positive Control Check and a Critical Assembly Check?"
>>>>>
>>>>> From the FAA Glider Handbook - Ch 6 Preflight and Ground Operations:
>>>>>
>>>>> "Many manufacturers provide a critical assembly checklist
>>>>> (CAC) to be completed after assembly, which is the preferred
>>>>> method of ensuring a proper assembly has been completed.
>>>>> When provided by the manufacturer, it is mandatory. A
>>>>> positive control check (PCC) is not a CAC, but an additional
>>>>> means of verification. If a CAC is provided, it must be used
>>>>> as is any other checklist a manufacturer provides. A PCC is
>>>>> not regulatory, but it is a good idea whether or not you just
>>>>> completed the required CAC."
>>>>>
>>>>> I found some valuable links worth looking at:
>>>>>
>>>>> https://www.lescsoaring.com/docs/ControlChecks.pdf
>>>>>
>>>>> https://www.faa.gov/sites/faa.gov/files/regulations_policies/handbooks_manuals/aviation/glider_handbook/gfh_appendix_A.pdf
>>>>>
>>>>> Make good decisions!
>>>>>
>>>>> Paul A.
>>>> If this turns out to be a disconnected elevator, what is puzzling is a simple visual check of the Hotellier connection would have discovered the error. On my DG400 I always did a positive pull test on the Hotellier connections as a so-called positive control check did not confirm that the connector was properly seated on the ball and the plunger was in the proper position. I also safetied the plunger, which it doesn't sound like that happened.
>>>>
>>>> Tom
>>> A visual confirmation that the safety pin is in is a very big help.
>>> I have found 2 on the line "ready to launch" with non connected elevators.
>>> UH
>> Of course knowing where the safety pin goes is also kind'a important. We found a club ship fully assembled with the safety pins in the big hole on the backside of the wedge, effectively preventing the wedge to close properly!
>> How did that saying about the idiot-proofing a design go again .... ?
>>
>> Uli
>> 'AS'

On Friday, April 22, 2022 at 11:58:21 AM UTC-7, Dan Marotta wrote:
> What's more important, getting airborne as quickly as possible or coming
> back in one piece? I'm not in as big a hurry as I once was.
>
> Dan
> 5J
> On 4/21/22 18:13, Ramy wrote:
> > If something can be forgotten, it will be forgotten. No checklists will prevent it, since checklists are normally the first thing that get forgotten.
> > We need to design systems as fool proof as possible, with a very low likelihood that something critical can be forgotten. Modern gliders are pretty close to it. Not sure about motorgliders.
> >
> > Ramy
> >
> > On Thursday, April 21, 2022 at 12:41:28 PM UTC-7, AS wrote:
> >> On Wednesday, April 20, 2022 at 11:02:20 AM UTC-4, Hank Nixon wrote:
> >>> On Tuesday, April 19, 2022 at 11:45:00 PM UTC-4, 2G wrote:
> >>>> On Monday, April 18, 2022 at 11:24:28 AM UTC-7, bluej...@gmail.com wrote:
> >>>>> A valuable question was asked in the ASW19 Owners group. "What is the difference between a Positive Control Check and a Critical Assembly Check?"
> >>>>>
> >>>>> From the FAA Glider Handbook - Ch 6 Preflight and Ground Operations:
> >>>>>
> >>>>> "Many manufacturers provide a critical assembly checklist
> >>>>> (CAC) to be completed after assembly, which is the preferred
> >>>>> method of ensuring a proper assembly has been completed.
> >>>>> When provided by the manufacturer, it is mandatory. A
> >>>>> positive control check (PCC) is not a CAC, but an additional
> >>>>> means of verification. If a CAC is provided, it must be used
> >>>>> as is any other checklist a manufacturer provides. A PCC is
> >>>>> not regulatory, but it is a good idea whether or not you just
> >>>>> completed the required CAC."
> >>>>>
> >>>>> I found some valuable links worth looking at:
> >>>>>
> >>>>> https://www.lescsoaring.com/docs/ControlChecks.pdf
> >>>>>
> >>>>> https://www.faa.gov/sites/faa.gov/files/regulations_policies/handbooks_manuals/aviation/glider_handbook/gfh_appendix_A.pdf
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Make good decisions!
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Paul A.
> >>>> If this turns out to be a disconnected elevator, what is puzzling is a simple visual check of the Hotellier connection would have discovered the error. On my DG400 I always did a positive pull test on the Hotellier connections as a so-called positive control check did not confirm that the connector was properly seated on the ball and the plunger was in the proper position. I also safetied the plunger, which it doesn't sound like that happened.
> >>>>
> >>>> Tom
> >>> A visual confirmation that the safety pin is in is a very big help.
> >>> I have found 2 on the line "ready to launch" with non connected elevators.
> >>> UH
> >> Of course knowing where the safety pin goes is also kind'a important. We found a club ship fully assembled with the safety pins in the big hole on the backside of the wedge, effectively preventing the wedge to close properly!
> >> How did that saying about the idiot-proofing a design go again .... ?
> >>
> >> Uli

> >> 'AS'

Good advice, Dan……….rushing to get in the air cost Clem Bowman his life. He slid the stab onto the fin but couldn’t lock it because he’d given his wife the little red knob to start putting water in the wings. That little item never got fixed and the stab slid off on takeoff. Line crew transmitted, “RELEASE, RELEASE, RELEASE on the briefed airport frequency (122.8) , but Clem was too rushed to go to pilots meeting and was on 123.3………….. the ship went into extreme lot tow position, but the tow pilot was able to manage the pitch up caused by the extreme low tow situation! At about 1000 feet, Clem released and almost completed an outside loop, but not quite!
RIP Clem…………Don’t rush!
JJ