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tech / rec.aviation.soaring / Re: Transponder choice

SubjectAuthor
* Transponder choiceLudovic
`* Re: Transponder choiceEric
 `* Re: Transponder choiceMatthew Scutter
  +- Re: Transponder choicesoaringjac
  `* Re: Transponder choice2G
   +- Re: Transponder choiceRichard Pfiffner
   `* Re: Transponder choiceTony
    `* Re: Transponder choice2G
     `* Re: Transponder choiceRichard Pfiffner
      `* Re: Transponder choice2G
       `* Re: Transponder choiceTraditions - Marketing
        `* Re: Transponder choiceLudovic
         `- Re: Transponder choiceDan Marotta

1
Transponder choice

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Subject: Transponder choice
From: ludovic....@gmail.com (Ludovic)
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 by: Ludovic - Fri, 22 Apr 2022 07:19 UTC

Hi
I'm considering installing a transponder in my glider, but I'm not 100% sure, which setup I'll be going for.
It'll be installed in a DG-808B
My options are:
1) Trig T21
https://www.trig-avionics.com/product/compact-transponder/

2) Air Avionic
Air control Display
VT-01 XPDR module.

The Trig seems to be drawing slightly less power.
The air control display could potentially also drive the radio and provide additional altimeter...but I don't really need these features as I have a becker AR6201 in the instrument panel, and a classic winter altimeter.

If I was designing a completly new panel for a (new) glider, the Air Avionic is very interesting as it saves space on the instrument panel.
But for now...not sure it's relevant..

Any thoughts ?
Feedback on any of these solutions ?

Regards
Ludovic

Re: Transponder choice

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Subject: Re: Transponder choice
From: eric_kee...@hotmail.com (Eric)
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 by: Eric - Fri, 22 Apr 2022 08:22 UTC

Op vrijdag 22 april 2022 om 09:19:22 UTC+2 schreef Ludovic:
> Hi
> I'm considering installing a transponder in my glider, but I'm not 100% sure, which setup I'll be going for.
> It'll be installed in a DG-808B
> My options are:
> 1) Trig T21
> https://www.trig-avionics.com/product/compact-transponder/
>
> 2) Air Avionic
> Air control Display
> VT-01 XPDR module.
>
> The Trig seems to be drawing slightly less power.
> The air control display could potentially also drive the radio and provide additional altimeter...but I don't really need these features as I have a becker AR6201 in the instrument panel, and a classic winter altimeter.
>
> If I was designing a completly new panel for a (new) glider, the Air Avionic is very interesting as it saves space on the instrument panel.
> But for now...not sure it's relevant..
>
> Any thoughts ?
> Feedback on any of these solutions ?
>
> Regards
> Ludovic

I've been using the VT-01/UC (former Garrecht) since 2007. Critical points of the VT-01 are the air pressure sensor and the PA stage. The latter is sensitive to antenna miss adjustment. Furthermore a reliable and user friendly transponder.

Re: Transponder choice

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Subject: Re: Transponder choice
From: yellowpl...@gmail.com (Matthew Scutter)
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 by: Matthew Scutter - Fri, 22 Apr 2022 13:23 UTC

The VT01 is only ADS-B SIL0, no integrity checking on the GPS source - that means most ATC and TCAS will not see your ADS-B transmissions, only your Mode S. This may not be permissible in your region, or may not be permissible in the future if it still is.
The VT01 is a lot cheaper than any SIL>0 setup though...

On Friday, April 22, 2022 at 6:22:13 PM UTC+10, Eric wrote:
> Op vrijdag 22 april 2022 om 09:19:22 UTC+2 schreef Ludovic:
> > Hi
> > I'm considering installing a transponder in my glider, but I'm not 100% sure, which setup I'll be going for.
> > It'll be installed in a DG-808B
> > My options are:
> > 1) Trig T21
> > https://www.trig-avionics.com/product/compact-transponder/
> >
> > 2) Air Avionic
> > Air control Display
> > VT-01 XPDR module.
> >
> > The Trig seems to be drawing slightly less power.
> > The air control display could potentially also drive the radio and provide additional altimeter...but I don't really need these features as I have a becker AR6201 in the instrument panel, and a classic winter altimeter.
> >
> > If I was designing a completly new panel for a (new) glider, the Air Avionic is very interesting as it saves space on the instrument panel.
> > But for now...not sure it's relevant..
> >
> > Any thoughts ?
> > Feedback on any of these solutions ?
> >
> > Regards
> > Ludovic
> I've been using the VT-01/UC (former Garrecht) since 2007. Critical points of the VT-01 are the air pressure sensor and the PA stage. The latter is sensitive to antenna miss adjustment. Furthermore a reliable and user friendly transponder.

Re: Transponder choice

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Subject: Re: Transponder choice
From: joe...@scientifantastic.com (soaringjac)
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 by: soaringjac - Fri, 22 Apr 2022 14:06 UTC

Trig TT22 and TN72

Re: Transponder choice

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Subject: Re: Transponder choice
From: soar2mor...@yahoo.com (2G)
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 by: 2G - Fri, 22 Apr 2022 14:07 UTC

On Friday, April 22, 2022 at 6:23:17 AM UTC-7, Matthew Scutter wrote:
> The VT01 is only ADS-B SIL0, no integrity checking on the GPS source - that means most ATC and TCAS will not see your ADS-B transmissions, only your Mode S. This may not be permissible in your region, or may not be permissible in the future if it still is.
> The VT01 is a lot cheaper than any SIL>0 setup though...
> On Friday, April 22, 2022 at 6:22:13 PM UTC+10, Eric wrote:
> > Op vrijdag 22 april 2022 om 09:19:22 UTC+2 schreef Ludovic:
> > > Hi
> > > I'm considering installing a transponder in my glider, but I'm not 100% sure, which setup I'll be going for.
> > > It'll be installed in a DG-808B
> > > My options are:
> > > 1) Trig T21
> > > https://www.trig-avionics.com/product/compact-transponder/
> > >
> > > 2) Air Avionic
> > > Air control Display
> > > VT-01 XPDR module.
> > >
> > > The Trig seems to be drawing slightly less power.
> > > The air control display could potentially also drive the radio and provide additional altimeter...but I don't really need these features as I have a becker AR6201 in the instrument panel, and a classic winter altimeter.
> > >
> > > If I was designing a completly new panel for a (new) glider, the Air Avionic is very interesting as it saves space on the instrument panel.
> > > But for now...not sure it's relevant..
> > >
> > > Any thoughts ?
> > > Feedback on any of these solutions ?
> > >
> > > Regards
> > > Ludovic
> > I've been using the VT-01/UC (former Garrecht) since 2007. Critical points of the VT-01 are the air pressure sensor and the PA stage. The latter is sensitive to antenna miss adjustment. Furthermore a reliable and user friendly transponder.

If you want ADS-B compatibility, which is a must for flying in, or over, class B, C, and D airspace, then the TT-22 (not the TT-21) is the way to go (https://www.trig-avionics.com/product/compact-transponder/):

"ADS-B enhances safety and visibility – your investment in a TT22 transponder is future proof. Trig has a matching certified GPS position source that is highly affordable called the TN72. This is ideal for ADS-B voluntary equipage and the TN72 can even be used to meet the 2020 mandate by light-sport, experimental and homebuilt types in the U.S.

Our TN70 GPS position source is suitable for certified Part 23 aircraft that need a TSO-C145 position source, for operations in 2020 rule ADS-B airspace using a TT22 transponder."

It is not economical to upgrade a TT-21 to a TT-22, so make up your mind at the start (I have had both and currently have the TT-21 and TN72 in my ASH31Mi).

Tom

Re: Transponder choice

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Subject: Re: Transponder choice
From: handb9...@gmail.com (Richard Pfiffner)
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 by: Richard Pfiffner - Fri, 22 Apr 2022 15:10 UTC

Please see this page especially if in the USA.

http://www.craggyaero.com/transponder.htm

Becker, Garrecht transponders with ADS-B do not meet USA Specifications.

Richard
www.craggyaero.com

Re: Transponder choice

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Subject: Re: Transponder choice
From: abcon...@gmail.com (Tony)
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 by: Tony - Fri, 22 Apr 2022 17:04 UTC

On Friday, April 22, 2022 at 9:07:59 AM UTC-5, 2G wrote:
> On Friday, April 22, 2022 at 6:23:17 AM UTC-7, Matthew Scutter wrote:
> > The VT01 is only ADS-B SIL0, no integrity checking on the GPS source - that means most ATC and TCAS will not see your ADS-B transmissions, only your Mode S. This may not be permissible in your region, or may not be permissible in the future if it still is.
> > The VT01 is a lot cheaper than any SIL>0 setup though...
> > On Friday, April 22, 2022 at 6:22:13 PM UTC+10, Eric wrote:
> > > Op vrijdag 22 april 2022 om 09:19:22 UTC+2 schreef Ludovic:
> > > > Hi
> > > > I'm considering installing a transponder in my glider, but I'm not 100% sure, which setup I'll be going for.
> > > > It'll be installed in a DG-808B
> > > > My options are:
> > > > 1) Trig T21
> > > > https://www.trig-avionics.com/product/compact-transponder/
> > > >
> > > > 2) Air Avionic
> > > > Air control Display
> > > > VT-01 XPDR module.
> > > >
> > > > The Trig seems to be drawing slightly less power.
> > > > The air control display could potentially also drive the radio and provide additional altimeter...but I don't really need these features as I have a becker AR6201 in the instrument panel, and a classic winter altimeter.
> > > >
> > > > If I was designing a completly new panel for a (new) glider, the Air Avionic is very interesting as it saves space on the instrument panel.
> > > > But for now...not sure it's relevant..
> > > >
> > > > Any thoughts ?
> > > > Feedback on any of these solutions ?
> > > >
> > > > Regards
> > > > Ludovic
> > > I've been using the VT-01/UC (former Garrecht) since 2007. Critical points of the VT-01 are the air pressure sensor and the PA stage. The latter is sensitive to antenna miss adjustment. Furthermore a reliable and user friendly transponder.
> If you want ADS-B compatibility, which is a must for flying in, or over, class B, C, and D airspace, then the TT-22 (not the TT-21) is the way to go (https://www.trig-avionics.com/product/compact-transponder/):
>
> "ADS-B enhances safety and visibility – your investment in a TT22 transponder is future proof. Trig has a matching certified GPS position source that is highly affordable called the TN72. This is ideal for ADS-B voluntary equipage and the TN72 can even be used to meet the 2020 mandate by light-sport, experimental and homebuilt types in the U.S.
>
> Our TN70 GPS position source is suitable for certified Part 23 aircraft that need a TSO-C145 position source, for operations in 2020 rule ADS-B airspace using a TT22 transponder."
>
> It is not economical to upgrade a TT-21 to a TT-22, so make up your mind at the start (I have had both and currently have the TT-21 and TN72 in my ASH31Mi).
>
> Tom

ADS-B Out is not required in a glider (or any other aircraft) in Class D Airspace

Re: Transponder choice

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Subject: Re: Transponder choice
From: soar2mor...@yahoo.com (2G)
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 by: 2G - Sat, 23 Apr 2022 04:41 UTC

On Friday, April 22, 2022 at 10:04:20 AM UTC-7, Tony wrote:
> On Friday, April 22, 2022 at 9:07:59 AM UTC-5, 2G wrote:
> > On Friday, April 22, 2022 at 6:23:17 AM UTC-7, Matthew Scutter wrote:
> > > The VT01 is only ADS-B SIL0, no integrity checking on the GPS source - that means most ATC and TCAS will not see your ADS-B transmissions, only your Mode S. This may not be permissible in your region, or may not be permissible in the future if it still is.
> > > The VT01 is a lot cheaper than any SIL>0 setup though...
> > > On Friday, April 22, 2022 at 6:22:13 PM UTC+10, Eric wrote:
> > > > Op vrijdag 22 april 2022 om 09:19:22 UTC+2 schreef Ludovic:
> > > > > Hi
> > > > > I'm considering installing a transponder in my glider, but I'm not 100% sure, which setup I'll be going for.
> > > > > It'll be installed in a DG-808B
> > > > > My options are:
> > > > > 1) Trig T21
> > > > > https://www.trig-avionics.com/product/compact-transponder/
> > > > >
> > > > > 2) Air Avionic
> > > > > Air control Display
> > > > > VT-01 XPDR module.
> > > > >
> > > > > The Trig seems to be drawing slightly less power.
> > > > > The air control display could potentially also drive the radio and provide additional altimeter...but I don't really need these features as I have a becker AR6201 in the instrument panel, and a classic winter altimeter.
> > > > >
> > > > > If I was designing a completly new panel for a (new) glider, the Air Avionic is very interesting as it saves space on the instrument panel.
> > > > > But for now...not sure it's relevant..
> > > > >
> > > > > Any thoughts ?
> > > > > Feedback on any of these solutions ?
> > > > >
> > > > > Regards
> > > > > Ludovic
> > > > I've been using the VT-01/UC (former Garrecht) since 2007. Critical points of the VT-01 are the air pressure sensor and the PA stage. The latter is sensitive to antenna miss adjustment. Furthermore a reliable and user friendly transponder.
> > If you want ADS-B compatibility, which is a must for flying in, or over, class B, C, and D airspace, then the TT-22 (not the TT-21) is the way to go (https://www.trig-avionics.com/product/compact-transponder/):
> >
> > "ADS-B enhances safety and visibility – your investment in a TT22 transponder is future proof. Trig has a matching certified GPS position source that is highly affordable called the TN72. This is ideal for ADS-B voluntary equipage and the TN72 can even be used to meet the 2020 mandate by light-sport, experimental and homebuilt types in the U.S.
> >
> > Our TN70 GPS position source is suitable for certified Part 23 aircraft that need a TSO-C145 position source, for operations in 2020 rule ADS-B airspace using a TT22 transponder."
> >
> > It is not economical to upgrade a TT-21 to a TT-22, so make up your mind at the start (I have had both and currently have the TT-21 and TN72 in my ASH31Mi).
> >
> > Tom
> ADS-B Out is not required in a glider (or any other aircraft) in Class D Airspace

Here is where ADS-B is required:
https://www.faa.gov/air_traffic/technology/equipadsb/research/airspace/

Tom

Re: Transponder choice

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Subject: Re: Transponder choice
From: handb9...@gmail.com (Richard Pfiffner)
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 by: Richard Pfiffner - Sat, 23 Apr 2022 15:28 UTC

For my 2 cents it is not where it is required. It is where you want to be seen!!!!

Richard
www.craggyaero.com

Re: Transponder choice

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Subject: Re: Transponder choice
From: soar2mor...@yahoo.com (2G)
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 by: 2G - Sat, 23 Apr 2022 15:53 UTC

On Saturday, April 23, 2022 at 8:28:26 AM UTC-7, Richard Pfiffner wrote:
> For my 2 cents it is not where it is required. It is where you want to be seen!!!!
>
> Richard
> www.craggyaero.com

That's absolutely right: I got my first transponder after finding out the FAA in their infinite wisdom was routing incoming traffic to Reno directly down the Pine Nuts near Minden. When you see a 737 come out of the clouds 1,000 ft above you it gets your attention!

Tom

Re: Transponder choice

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Subject: Re: Transponder choice
From: market...@traditions.com (Traditions - Marketing)
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 by: Traditions - Marketi - Sat, 23 Apr 2022 16:02 UTC

On Saturday, April 23, 2022 at 10:53:48 AM UTC-5, 2G wrote:
> On Saturday, April 23, 2022 at 8:28:26 AM UTC-7, Richard Pfiffner wrote:
> > For my 2 cents it is not where it is required. It is where you want to be seen!!!!
> >
> > Richard
> > www.craggyaero.com
> That's absolutely right: I got my first transponder after finding out the FAA in their infinite wisdom was routing incoming traffic to Reno directly down the Pine Nuts near Minden. When you see a 737 come out of the clouds 1,000 ft above you it gets your attention!
>
> Tom
If you are going to spend the money on a transponder, you are crazy not to spend the extra cash to install ADS-B Out. Not only does this make you visible to the huge number of GA aircraft that are flying around with ADS-B IN, but it also dramatically increases your visibility to ATC at low altitudes and in remote areas where radar coverage is problematic. It also makes your flights visible on FlightAware so that your friends and family can easily, for free, follow your flight progress, and can provide very accurate position data for search and rescue operations if you have an accident.

Re: Transponder choice

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Subject: Re: Transponder choice
From: ludovic....@gmail.com (Ludovic)
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 by: Ludovic - Mon, 25 Apr 2022 10:01 UTC

Thanks for the information.
I think I'll be going towards a Trig TT22.

Regards
Ludovic

Re: Transponder choice

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Subject: Re: Transponder choice
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 by: Dan Marotta - Mon, 25 Apr 2022 16:44 UTC

You won't be sorry! ...And integrating a Trig ADS-B solution is quite
easy, as well. I have two of them, one in my Stemme and one in my home
build gyro plane.

Dan
5J

On 4/25/22 04:01, Ludovic wrote:
> Thanks for the information.
> I think I'll be going towards a Trig TT22.
>
> Regards
> Ludovic

1
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