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tech / rec.aviation.soaring / Re: It Gets Worse

SubjectAuthor
* It Gets Worseyoungbl...@gmail.com
+- Re: It Gets WorseEric Greenwell
`* Re: It Gets Worsejfitch
 +* Re: It Gets Worseyoungbl...@gmail.com
 |`* Re: It Gets WorseEric Greenwell
 | `* Re: It Gets Worseyoungbl...@gmail.com
 |  +- Re: It Gets Worse2G
 |  `* Re: It Gets WorseEric Greenwell
 |   `* Re: It Gets Worseyoungbl...@gmail.com
 |    `* Re: It Gets WorseEric Greenwell
 |     `* Re: It Gets Worseyoungbl...@gmail.com
 |      +- Re: It Gets WorseEric Greenwell
 |      +* Re: It Gets Worse2G
 |      |`* Re: It Gets Worseyoungbl...@gmail.com
 |      | +* Re: It Gets WorseJay Campbell
 |      | |`* Re: It Gets Worsejohn firth
 |      | | `- Re: It Gets Worse2G
 |      | `- Re: It Gets Worse2G
 |      +* Re: It Gets WorseRamy
 |      |+- Re: It Gets Worse2G
 |      |+- Re: It Gets WorseEric Greenwell
 |      |+* Re: It Gets Worseyoungbl...@gmail.com
 |      ||+* Re: It Gets WorseEric Greenwell
 |      |||+* Re: It Gets WorseEric Greenwell
 |      ||||`* Re: It Gets Worseyoungbl...@gmail.com
 |      |||| `- Re: It Gets WorseEric Greenwell
 |      |||`* Re: It Gets WorseDan Marotta
 |      ||| +* Re: It Gets WorseBob W.
 |      ||| |+- Re: It Gets WorseDan Marotta
 |      ||| |`* Re: It Gets WorseEric Greenwell
 |      ||| | `- Re: It Gets WorseDan Marotta
 |      ||| `* Re: It Gets WorseEric Greenwell
 |      |||  `* Re: It Gets WorseMichael N.
 |      |||   +* Re: It Gets WorseMichael N.
 |      |||   |`* Re: It Gets Worseyoungbl...@gmail.com
 |      |||   | `* Re: It Gets WorseEric Greenwell
 |      |||   |  +* Re: It Gets Worseyoungbl...@gmail.com
 |      |||   |  |`- Re: It Gets Worse2G
 |      |||   |  `- Re: It Gets WorseMichael N.
 |      |||   `- Re: It Gets Worse2G
 |      ||`* Re: It Gets WorseDan Marotta
 |      || `* Re: It Gets Worse2G
 |      ||  `- Re: It Gets WorseRR
 |      |`* Re: It Gets Worsekinsell
 |      | `- Re: It Gets WorseRamy
 |      `* Re: It Gets Worsejfitch
 |       +* Re: It Gets WorseRamy
 |       |+- Re: It Gets WorseEric Greenwell
 |       |+* Re: It Gets WorseJ6 aka Airport Bum
 |       ||`* Re: It Gets WorseNicholas Kennedy
 |       || +* Re: It Gets WorseDarren Braun
 |       || |`* Re: It Gets WorseEric Greenwell
 |       || | +- Re: It Gets WorseDarren Braun
 |       || | `* Re: It Gets WorseDan Marotta
 |       || |  `- Re: It Gets WorseEric Greenwell
 |       || +* Re: It Gets WorseEric Greenwell
 |       || |+- Re: It Gets WorseEric Greenwell
 |       || |`- Re: It Gets WorseDan Marotta
 |       || +- Re: It Gets WorseDoug Levy
 |       || `* Re: It Gets WorseJ6 aka Airport Bum
 |       ||  +* Re: It Gets WorseDan Marotta
 |       ||  |`* Re: It Gets Worseyoungbl...@gmail.com
 |       ||  | `* Re: It Gets WorseDan Marotta
 |       ||  |  `* Re: It Gets Worsebpattonsoa@yahoo.com
 |       ||  |   `- Re: It Gets Worseyoungbl...@gmail.com
 |       ||  `* Re: It Gets Worseyoungbl...@gmail.com
 |       ||   `* Re: It Gets WorseEric Greenwell
 |       ||    `* Re: It Gets Worseyoungbl...@gmail.com
 |       ||     +* Re: It Gets WorseEric Greenwell
 |       ||     |`- Re: It Gets WorseMark Mocho
 |       ||     `* Re: It Gets Worsejfitch
 |       ||      `* Re: It Gets Worseyoungbl...@gmail.com
 |       ||       +* Re: It Gets WorseRamy
 |       ||       |`- Re: It Gets WorseEric Greenwell
 |       ||       +* Re: It Gets Worsejfitch
 |       ||       |+- Re: It Gets WorseMark Mocho
 |       ||       |+- Re: It Gets Worsejfitch
 |       ||       |+- Re: It Gets Worse2G
 |       ||       |+- Re: It Gets Worsewaltco...@aol.com
 |       ||       |+- Re: It Gets WorseMark Mocho
 |       ||       |+- Re: It Gets Worse2G
 |       ||       |+- Re: It Gets Worse2G
 |       ||       |+- Re: It Gets Worserichard wilkening
 |       ||       |+- Re: It Gets Worse2G
 |       ||       |+- Re: It Gets Worsejfitch
 |       ||       |+- Re: It Gets WorseMark Mocho
 |       ||       |+- Re: It Gets WorseTom Des
 |       ||       |+- Re: It Gets WorseMark Mocho
 |       ||       |+- Re: It Gets Worse2G
 |       ||       |+- Re: It Gets Worsejfitch
 |       ||       |+- Re: It Gets WorseRamy
 |       ||       |`* Re: It Gets WorseR
 |       ||       | `* Re: It Gets WorseEric Greenwell
 |       ||       |  `* Re: It Gets WorseRamy
 |       ||       |   +- Re: It Gets WorseMark Mocho
 |       ||       |   +- Re: It Gets WorseMark Mocho
 |       ||       |   +- Re: It Gets WorseDan Marotta
 |       ||       |   +- Re: It Gets Worse2G
 |       ||       |   `- Re: It Gets Worse2G
 |       ||       +- Re: It Gets Worseyoungbl...@gmail.com
 |       ||       +- Re: It Gets Worseyoungbl...@gmail.com
 |       ||       +- Re: It Gets Worseyoungbl...@gmail.com
 |       ||       +* Re: It Gets Worseyoungbl...@gmail.com
 |       ||       +- Re: It Gets Worseyoungbl...@gmail.com
 |       ||       `- Re: It Gets Worseyoungbl...@gmail.com
 |       |`* Re: It Gets WorseDennis
 |       `* Re: It Gets Worseyoungbl...@gmail.com
 `* Re: It Gets Worseyoungbl...@gmail.com

Pages:123456
It Gets Worse

<1c49b238-4a77-469b-ac62-b0567a70456en@googlegroups.com>

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Subject: It Gets Worse
From: youngblo...@gmail.com (youngbl...@gmail.com)
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 by: youngbl...@gmail.com - Fri, 29 Apr 2022 00:20 UTC

Right when things are somewhat calm and the snowbirds are headed back up north the weather finally gets good and we were able to get a few good glider flights in the books. The motorglider drivers up at Seminole had some nice flights and discovered that the Florida spring had arrived a bit late.
Now comes the disturbing news, my fellow glider pilot and purist informed me that he had sold his 27 and was taking delivery of a motorglider. Now this is a good guy that I met back long ago only to realize that we were from the same area in Georgia. now this makes two of my good friends that have gone to the dark side during the past few weeks. I have been pondering what would cause two perfectly good guys to convert and go to the other side, this would be like me a UM guy pulling for the Gators or an Alabama fan pulling for Auburn, it just doesn't happen. I know that both of these fine gentlemen did not drink the same water from the Coosa River.
Wow, what is happening, next thing you know my dog will be looking at motorgliders and trying to convince me to get one, I told Eileen to change the dogs medication. So, the best thing about this whole scenario is that I will have to buy two less Christmas cards and save money on the postage.
As for me I will keep flying that antique 27 and Eileen will stay with the 24 and hopefully the dog will recover.
Enjoy those motorgliders my friends, call me if you need a tow, or come on down to Vero and we will tape those doors shut and go for a flight. Old Bob, The Purist

Re: It Gets Worse

<t4fm38$19rn$1@gioia.aioe.org>

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From: own...@thegreenwells.netto (Eric Greenwell)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.soaring
Subject: Re: It Gets Worse
Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2022 20:29:43 -0700
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 by: Eric Greenwell - Fri, 29 Apr 2022 03:29 UTC

On 4/28/2022 5:20 PM, youngbl...@gmail.com wrote:
> Right when things are somewhat calm and the snowbirds are headed back up north the weather finally gets good and we were able to get a few good glider flights in the books. The motorglider drivers up at Seminole had some nice flights and discovered that the Florida spring had arrived a bit late.
> Now comes the disturbing news, my fellow glider pilot and purist informed me that he had sold his 27 and was taking delivery of a motorglider. Now this is a good guy that I met back long ago only to realize that we were from the same area in Georgia. now this makes two of my good friends that have gone to the dark side during the past few weeks. I have been pondering what would cause two perfectly good guys to convert and go to the other side, this would be like me a UM guy pulling for the Gators or an Alabama fan pulling for Auburn, it just doesn't happen. I know that both of these fine gentlemen did not drink the same water from the Coosa River.
> Wow, what is happening, next thing you know my dog will be looking at motorgliders and trying to convince me to get one, I told Eileen to change the dogs medication. So, the best thing about this whole scenario is that I will have to buy two less Christmas cards and save money on the postage.
> As for me I will keep flying that antique 27 and Eileen will stay with the 24 and hopefully the dog will recover.
> Enjoy those motorgliders my friends, call me if you need a tow, or come on down to Vero and we will tape those doors shut and go for a flight. Old Bob, The Purist

Ol' Bob, you got to do some thinking, and then you'll realize a motorglider is like good
dog: he's always there when you need him. Now, I can't say that about a towplane, which
can be down for maintenance, or at the gas pump, or out playing around with someone else's
rope, and I can't say that about a towpilot, who often apparently think they have a life
that doesn't always include me.

--
Eric Greenwell - USA
- "A Guide to Self-launching Sailplane Operation"
https://sites.google.com/site/motorgliders/publications

Re: It Gets Worse

<df7dac0e-e2bd-48dd-a617-bb9bcd346493n@googlegroups.com>

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Subject: Re: It Gets Worse
From: jfi...@flash.net (jfitch)
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 by: jfitch - Fri, 29 Apr 2022 05:17 UTC

Bob, you can't stop progress, no matter how hard you try. But it is good to see someone getting along with muskets, spats, dial telephone land lines, wind up watches, lava lamps, 3-on-the-column shifts, and string towed gliders. So my friend, come out here and take a flight - oh wait a minute, you'll need a tow plane and we are fresh out......
On Thursday, April 28, 2022 at 5:20:21 PM UTC-7, youngbl...@gmail.com wrote:
> Right when things are somewhat calm and the snowbirds are headed back up north the weather finally gets good and we were able to get a few good glider flights in the books. The motorglider drivers up at Seminole had some nice flights and discovered that the Florida spring had arrived a bit late.
> Now comes the disturbing news, my fellow glider pilot and purist informed me that he had sold his 27 and was taking delivery of a motorglider. Now this is a good guy that I met back long ago only to realize that we were from the same area in Georgia. now this makes two of my good friends that have gone to the dark side during the past few weeks. I have been pondering what would cause two perfectly good guys to convert and go to the other side, this would be like me a UM guy pulling for the Gators or an Alabama fan pulling for Auburn, it just doesn't happen. I know that both of these fine gentlemen did not drink the same water from the Coosa River.
> Wow, what is happening, next thing you know my dog will be looking at motorgliders and trying to convince me to get one, I told Eileen to change the dogs medication. So, the best thing about this whole scenario is that I will have to buy two less Christmas cards and save money on the postage.
> As for me I will keep flying that antique 27 and Eileen will stay with the 24 and hopefully the dog will recover.
> Enjoy those motorgliders my friends, call me if you need a tow, or come on down to Vero and we will tape those doors shut and go for a flight. Old Bob, The Purist

Re: It Gets Worse

<fedc6071-5b66-418d-9033-bf8a7c971c11n@googlegroups.com>

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Subject: Re: It Gets Worse
From: youngblo...@gmail.com (youngbl...@gmail.com)
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 by: youngbl...@gmail.com - Fri, 29 Apr 2022 11:29 UTC

On Friday, April 29, 2022 at 1:17:02 AM UTC-4, jfitch wrote:
> Bob, you can't stop progress, no matter how hard you try. But it is good to see someone getting along with muskets, spats, dial telephone land lines, wind up watches, lava lamps, 3-on-the-column shifts, and string towed gliders. So my friend, come out here and take a flight - oh wait a minute, you'll need a tow plane and we are fresh out......
> On Thursday, April 28, 2022 at 5:20:21 PM UTC-7, youngbl...@gmail.com wrote:
> > Right when things are somewhat calm and the snowbirds are headed back up north the weather finally gets good and we were able to get a few good glider flights in the books. The motorglider drivers up at Seminole had some nice flights and discovered that the Florida spring had arrived a bit late.
> > Now comes the disturbing news, my fellow glider pilot and purist informed me that he had sold his 27 and was taking delivery of a motorglider. Now this is a good guy that I met back long ago only to realize that we were from the same area in Georgia. now this makes two of my good friends that have gone to the dark side during the past few weeks. I have been pondering what would cause two perfectly good guys to convert and go to the other side, this would be like me a UM guy pulling for the Gators or an Alabama fan pulling for Auburn, it just doesn't happen. I know that both of these fine gentlemen did not drink the same water from the Coosa River.
> > Wow, what is happening, next thing you know my dog will be looking at motorgliders and trying to convince me to get one, I told Eileen to change the dogs medication. So, the best thing about this whole scenario is that I will have to buy two less Christmas cards and save money on the postage.
> > As for me I will keep flying that antique 27 and Eileen will stay with the 24 and hopefully the dog will recover.
> > Enjoy those motorgliders my friends, call me if you need a tow, or come on down to Vero and we will tape those doors shut and go for a flight. Old Bob, The Purist
Thanks for the invite Fitch, it would be a long cold trip for this old flip flop wearing Purist to make only to be denied a tow. I think back through last year alone and I was able to make 1000 tows and put a smile on many faces with my beautiful Pawnee, AKA, Towpecker. Old Bob, The Purist

Re: It Gets Worse

<t4grcu$13id$1@gioia.aioe.org>

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From: own...@thegreenwells.netto (Eric Greenwell)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.soaring
Subject: Re: It Gets Worse
Date: Fri, 29 Apr 2022 07:06:21 -0700
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<df7dac0e-e2bd-48dd-a617-bb9bcd346493n@googlegroups.com>
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 by: Eric Greenwell - Fri, 29 Apr 2022 14:06 UTC

On 4/29/2022 4:29 AM, youngbl...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Friday, April 29, 2022 at 1:17:02 AM UTC-4, jfitch wrote:
>> Bob, you can't stop progress, no matter how hard you try. But it is good to see someone getting along with muskets, spats, dial telephone land lines, wind up watches, lava lamps, 3-on-the-column shifts, and string towed gliders. So my friend, come out here and take a flight - oh wait a minute, you'll need a tow plane and we are fresh out......
>> On Thursday, April 28, 2022 at 5:20:21 PM UTC-7, youngbl...@gmail.com wrote:
>>> Right when things are somewhat calm and the snowbirds are headed back up north the weather finally gets good and we were able to get a few good glider flights in the books. The motorglider drivers up at Seminole had some nice flights and discovered that the Florida spring had arrived a bit late.
>>> Now comes the disturbing news, my fellow glider pilot and purist informed me that he had sold his 27 and was taking delivery of a motorglider. Now this is a good guy that I met back long ago only to realize that we were from the same area in Georgia. now this makes two of my good friends that have gone to the dark side during the past few weeks. I have been pondering what would cause two perfectly good guys to convert and go to the other side, this would be like me a UM guy pulling for the Gators or an Alabama fan pulling for Auburn, it just doesn't happen. I know that both of these fine gentlemen did not drink the same water from the Coosa River.
>>> Wow, what is happening, next thing you know my dog will be looking at motorgliders and trying to convince me to get one, I told Eileen to change the dogs medication. So, the best thing about this whole scenario is that I will have to buy two less Christmas cards and save money on the postage.
>>> As for me I will keep flying that antique 27 and Eileen will stay with the 24 and hopefully the dog will recover.
>>> Enjoy those motorgliders my friends, call me if you need a tow, or come on down to Vero and we will tape those doors shut and go for a flight. Old Bob, The Purist
> Thanks for the invite Fitch, it would be a long cold trip for this old flip flop wearing Purist to make only to be denied a tow. I think back through last year alone and I was able to make 1000 tows and put a smile on many faces with my beautiful Pawnee, AKA, Towpecker. Old Bob, The Purist

You have not understood, or at least not acknowledged, that most motorglider pilots had a
choice: use tows and fly less, or get a motor and fly more. They chose more soaring.
That's good, isn't it?
--
Eric Greenwell - USA
- "A Guide to Self-launching Sailplane Operation"
https://sites.google.com/site/motorgliders/publications

Re: It Gets Worse

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 by: youngbl...@gmail.com - Fri, 29 Apr 2022 14:54 UTC

On Friday, April 29, 2022 at 10:06:30 AM UTC-4, Eric Greenwell wrote:
> On 4/29/2022 4:29 AM, youngbl...@gmail.com wrote:
> > On Friday, April 29, 2022 at 1:17:02 AM UTC-4, jfitch wrote:
> >> Bob, you can't stop progress, no matter how hard you try. But it is good to see someone getting along with muskets, spats, dial telephone land lines, wind up watches, lava lamps, 3-on-the-column shifts, and string towed gliders. So my friend, come out here and take a flight - oh wait a minute, you'll need a tow plane and we are fresh out......
> >> On Thursday, April 28, 2022 at 5:20:21 PM UTC-7, youngbl...@gmail.com wrote:
> >>> Right when things are somewhat calm and the snowbirds are headed back up north the weather finally gets good and we were able to get a few good glider flights in the books. The motorglider drivers up at Seminole had some nice flights and discovered that the Florida spring had arrived a bit late.
> >>> Now comes the disturbing news, my fellow glider pilot and purist informed me that he had sold his 27 and was taking delivery of a motorglider. Now this is a good guy that I met back long ago only to realize that we were from the same area in Georgia. now this makes two of my good friends that have gone to the dark side during the past few weeks. I have been pondering what would cause two perfectly good guys to convert and go to the other side, this would be like me a UM guy pulling for the Gators or an Alabama fan pulling for Auburn, it just doesn't happen. I know that both of these fine gentlemen did not drink the same water from the Coosa River.
> >>> Wow, what is happening, next thing you know my dog will be looking at motorgliders and trying to convince me to get one, I told Eileen to change the dogs medication. So, the best thing about this whole scenario is that I will have to buy two less Christmas cards and save money on the postage.
> >>> As for me I will keep flying that antique 27 and Eileen will stay with the 24 and hopefully the dog will recover.
> >>> Enjoy those motorgliders my friends, call me if you need a tow, or come on down to Vero and we will tape those doors shut and go for a flight. Old Bob, The Purist
> > Thanks for the invite Fitch, it would be a long cold trip for this old flip flop wearing Purist to make only to be denied a tow. I think back through last year alone and I was able to make 1000 tows and put a smile on many faces with my beautiful Pawnee, AKA, Towpecker. Old Bob, The Purist
> You have not understood, or at least not acknowledged, that most motorglider pilots had a
> choice: use tows and fly less, or get a motor and fly more. They chose more soaring.
> That's good, isn't it?
> --
> Eric Greenwell - USA
> - "A Guide to Self-launching Sailplane Operation"
> https://sites.google.com/site/motorgliders/publications
Eric, I understand this situation extremely well, been doing this gig for a long time and still having fun. My observation on motor gliders and sustainers is right on target, I do not have a problem flying my pure glider over areas where land out is a possibility, I must make good decisions unlike the motor glider drivers. The motor glider segment is for convenience, and I have no problem with that. When my skills erode to the point where I do not feel confident in making a challenging purist flight I will just hang it up and move on to something new and exciting, but until that time comes I will be a purist. Old Bob, The Purist

Re: It Gets Worse

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From: soar2mor...@yahoo.com (2G)
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 by: 2G - Sat, 30 Apr 2022 20:40 UTC

On Friday, April 29, 2022 at 7:54:05 AM UTC-7, youngbl...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Friday, April 29, 2022 at 10:06:30 AM UTC-4, Eric Greenwell wrote:
> > On 4/29/2022 4:29 AM, youngbl...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > On Friday, April 29, 2022 at 1:17:02 AM UTC-4, jfitch wrote:
> > >> Bob, you can't stop progress, no matter how hard you try. But it is good to see someone getting along with muskets, spats, dial telephone land lines, wind up watches, lava lamps, 3-on-the-column shifts, and string towed gliders. So my friend, come out here and take a flight - oh wait a minute, you'll need a tow plane and we are fresh out......
> > >> On Thursday, April 28, 2022 at 5:20:21 PM UTC-7, youngbl...@gmail.com wrote:
> > >>> Right when things are somewhat calm and the snowbirds are headed back up north the weather finally gets good and we were able to get a few good glider flights in the books. The motorglider drivers up at Seminole had some nice flights and discovered that the Florida spring had arrived a bit late.
> > >>> Now comes the disturbing news, my fellow glider pilot and purist informed me that he had sold his 27 and was taking delivery of a motorglider. Now this is a good guy that I met back long ago only to realize that we were from the same area in Georgia. now this makes two of my good friends that have gone to the dark side during the past few weeks. I have been pondering what would cause two perfectly good guys to convert and go to the other side, this would be like me a UM guy pulling for the Gators or an Alabama fan pulling for Auburn, it just doesn't happen. I know that both of these fine gentlemen did not drink the same water from the Coosa River.
> > >>> Wow, what is happening, next thing you know my dog will be looking at motorgliders and trying to convince me to get one, I told Eileen to change the dogs medication. So, the best thing about this whole scenario is that I will have to buy two less Christmas cards and save money on the postage..
> > >>> As for me I will keep flying that antique 27 and Eileen will stay with the 24 and hopefully the dog will recover.
> > >>> Enjoy those motorgliders my friends, call me if you need a tow, or come on down to Vero and we will tape those doors shut and go for a flight. Old Bob, The Purist
> > > Thanks for the invite Fitch, it would be a long cold trip for this old flip flop wearing Purist to make only to be denied a tow. I think back through last year alone and I was able to make 1000 tows and put a smile on many faces with my beautiful Pawnee, AKA, Towpecker. Old Bob, The Purist
> > You have not understood, or at least not acknowledged, that most motorglider pilots had a
> > choice: use tows and fly less, or get a motor and fly more. They chose more soaring.
> > That's good, isn't it?
> > --
> > Eric Greenwell - USA
> > - "A Guide to Self-launching Sailplane Operation"
> > https://sites.google.com/site/motorgliders/publications
> Eric, I understand this situation extremely well, been doing this gig for a long time and still having fun. My observation on motor gliders and sustainers is right on target, I do not have a problem flying my pure glider over areas where land out is a possibility, I must make good decisions unlike the motor glider drivers. The motor glider segment is for convenience, and I have no problem with that. When my skills erode to the point where I do not feel confident in making a challenging purist flight I will just hang it up and move on to something new and exciting, but until that time comes I will be a purist. Old Bob, The Purist

You keep on calling yourself a purist, but you are anything but. You still use a motor to get your glider into the air, the only difference is where the motor is stored. Once launched, we don't use the motor again - this can be confirmed by hundreds of OLC motorglider flights. A REAL purist uses no motor whatsoever, just a hill and a bungee cord (which can be really hard to find in FL!).

Tom

Re: It Gets Worse

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Subject: Re: It Gets Worse
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 by: Eric Greenwell - Sat, 30 Apr 2022 20:54 UTC

On 4/29/2022 7:54 AM, youngbl...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Friday, April 29, 2022 at 10:06:30 AM UTC-4, Eric Greenwell wrote:

>>>>> Enjoy those motorgliders my friends, call me if you need a tow, or come on down to Vero and we will tape those doors shut and go for a flight. Old Bob, The Purist
>>> Thanks for the invite Fitch, it would be a long cold trip for this old flip flop wearing Purist to make only to be denied a tow. I think back through last year alone and I was able to make 1000 tows and put a smile on many faces with my beautiful Pawnee, AKA, Towpecker. Old Bob, The Purist
>> You have not understood, or at least not acknowledged, that most motorglider pilots had a
>> choice: use tows and fly less, or get a motor and fly more. They chose more soaring.
>> That's good, isn't it?
>> --
>> Eric Greenwell - USA
>> - "A Guide to Self-launching Sailplane Operation"
>> https://sites.google.com/site/motorgliders/publications
> Eric, I understand this situation extremely well, been doing this gig for a long time and still having fun. My observation on motor gliders and sustainers is right on target, I do not have a problem flying my pure glider over areas where land out is a possibility, I must make good decisions unlike the motor glider drivers. The motor glider segment is for convenience, and I have no problem with that. When my skills erode to the point where I do not feel confident in making a challenging purist flight I will just hang it up and move on to something new and exciting, but until that time comes I will be a purist. Old Bob, The Purist

Most of us, including you and me, want to avoid the inconvenience of landing away from our
home airport. Motorglider owners have chosen a motor to provide the convenience of making
it home; you've chosen to soar very cautiously to provide the convenience of making it
home. It's not a bad thing, as it's what most of the towed glider pilots do to varying
extents, but it's not what I consider "challenging" flying, which inevitably involves
landing away a few times a year. After all, if you always make it home, you are likely
leaving a lot soaring "on the table", and could've gone faster, farther, or longer, or all
of those.

--
Eric Greenwell - USA
- "A Guide to Self-launching Sailplane Operation"
https://sites.google.com/site/motorgliders/publications

Re: It Gets Worse

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Subject: Re: It Gets Worse
From: youngblo...@gmail.com (youngbl...@gmail.com)
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 by: youngbl...@gmail.com - Sat, 30 Apr 2022 22:31 UTC

On Saturday, April 30, 2022 at 4:54:58 PM UTC-4, Eric Greenwell wrote:
> On 4/29/2022 7:54 AM, youngbl...@gmail.com wrote:
> > On Friday, April 29, 2022 at 10:06:30 AM UTC-4, Eric Greenwell wrote:
>
> >>>>> Enjoy those motorgliders my friends, call me if you need a tow, or come on down to Vero and we will tape those doors shut and go for a flight. Old Bob, The Purist
> >>> Thanks for the invite Fitch, it would be a long cold trip for this old flip flop wearing Purist to make only to be denied a tow. I think back through last year alone and I was able to make 1000 tows and put a smile on many faces with my beautiful Pawnee, AKA, Towpecker. Old Bob, The Purist
> >> You have not understood, or at least not acknowledged, that most motorglider pilots had a
> >> choice: use tows and fly less, or get a motor and fly more. They chose more soaring.
> >> That's good, isn't it?
> >> --
> >> Eric Greenwell - USA
> >> - "A Guide to Self-launching Sailplane Operation"
> >> https://sites.google.com/site/motorgliders/publications
> > Eric, I understand this situation extremely well, been doing this gig for a long time and still having fun. My observation on motor gliders and sustainers is right on target, I do not have a problem flying my pure glider over areas where land out is a possibility, I must make good decisions unlike the motor glider drivers. The motor glider segment is for convenience, and I have no problem with that. When my skills erode to the point where I do not feel confident in making a challenging purist flight I will just hang it up and move on to something new and exciting, but until that time comes I will be a purist. Old Bob, The Purist
> Most of us, including you and me, want to avoid the inconvenience of landing away from our
> home airport. Motorglider owners have chosen a motor to provide the convenience of making
> it home; you've chosen to soar very cautiously to provide the convenience of making it
> home. It's not a bad thing, as it's what most of the towed glider pilots do to varying
> extents, but it's not what I consider "challenging" flying, which inevitably involves
> landing away a few times a year. After all, if you always make it home, you are likely
> leaving a lot soaring "on the table", and could've gone faster, farther, or longer, or all
> of those.
> --
> Eric Greenwell - USA
> - "A Guide to Self-launching Sailplane Operation"
> https://sites.google.com/site/motorgliders/publications
Eric, please do not lose sleep over the Purist vs the MG ! I have not left a lot on the table during my years of glider flying, rather I still put down in strange places every now and then. I just understand that there is a huge difference between the way I plan and conduct my flights vs the MG guys.. Old Bob, The Purist

Re: It Gets Worse

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Subject: Re: It Gets Worse
Date: Sat, 30 Apr 2022 16:53:49 -0700
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 by: Eric Greenwell - Sat, 30 Apr 2022 23:53 UTC

On 4/30/2022 3:31 PM, youngbl...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Saturday, April 30, 2022 at 4:54:58 PM UTC-4, Eric Greenwell wrote:

>>> Eric, I understand this situation extremely well, been doing this gig for a long time and still having fun. My observation on motor gliders and sustainers is right on target, I do not have a problem flying my pure glider over areas where land out is a possibility, I must make good decisions unlike the motor glider drivers. The motor glider segment is for convenience, and I have no problem with that. When my skills erode to the point where I do not feel confident in making a challenging purist flight I will just hang it up and move on to something new and exciting, but until that time comes I will be a purist. Old Bob, The Purist
>> Most of us, including you and me, want to avoid the inconvenience of landing away from our
>> home airport. Motorglider owners have chosen a motor to provide the convenience of making
>> it home; you've chosen to soar very cautiously to provide the convenience of making it
>> home. It's not a bad thing, as it's what most of the towed glider pilots do to varying
>> extents, but it's not what I consider "challenging" flying, which inevitably involves
>> landing away a few times a year. After all, if you always make it home, you are likely
>> leaving a lot soaring "on the table", and could've gone faster, farther, or longer, or all
>> of those.
>> --
>> Eric Greenwell - USA
>> - "A Guide to Self-launching Sailplane Operation"
>> https://sites.google.com/site/motorgliders/publications
> Eric, please do not lose sleep over the Purist vs the MG ! I have not left a lot on the table during my years of glider flying, rather I still put down in strange places every now and then. I just understand that there is a huge difference between the way I plan and conduct my flights vs the MG guys. Old Bob, The Purist

Perhaps I have misjudged what I see on the OLC. How many retrieves have you had in the
last two or three years? How does your planning and flying differ from the MG guys? My
planning and flying did not change much when I got a motorglider, for example.

By the way, "motorglider guys" do not all have the same goals, priorities, and skills:
some soar cautiously and very rarely use the motor inflight; others push hard, and use the
motor much more frequently.

--
Eric Greenwell - USA
- "A Guide to Self-launching Sailplane Operation"
https://sites.google.com/site/motorgliders/publications

Re: It Gets Worse

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Subject: Re: It Gets Worse
From: youngblo...@gmail.com (youngbl...@gmail.com)
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 by: youngbl...@gmail.com - Sun, 1 May 2022 00:33 UTC

On Saturday, April 30, 2022 at 7:53:56 PM UTC-4, Eric Greenwell wrote:
> On 4/30/2022 3:31 PM, youngbl...@gmail.com wrote:
> > On Saturday, April 30, 2022 at 4:54:58 PM UTC-4, Eric Greenwell wrote:
>
> >>> Eric, I understand this situation extremely well, been doing this gig for a long time and still having fun. My observation on motor gliders and sustainers is right on target, I do not have a problem flying my pure glider over areas where land out is a possibility, I must make good decisions unlike the motor glider drivers. The motor glider segment is for convenience, and I have no problem with that. When my skills erode to the point where I do not feel confident in making a challenging purist flight I will just hang it up and move on to something new and exciting, but until that time comes I will be a purist. Old Bob, The Purist
> >> Most of us, including you and me, want to avoid the inconvenience of landing away from our
> >> home airport. Motorglider owners have chosen a motor to provide the convenience of making
> >> it home; you've chosen to soar very cautiously to provide the convenience of making it
> >> home. It's not a bad thing, as it's what most of the towed glider pilots do to varying
> >> extents, but it's not what I consider "challenging" flying, which inevitably involves
> >> landing away a few times a year. After all, if you always make it home, you are likely
> >> leaving a lot soaring "on the table", and could've gone faster, farther, or longer, or all
> >> of those.
> >> --
> >> Eric Greenwell - USA
> >> - "A Guide to Self-launching Sailplane Operation"
> >> https://sites.google.com/site/motorgliders/publications
> > Eric, please do not lose sleep over the Purist vs the MG ! I have not left a lot on the table during my years of glider flying, rather I still put down in strange places every now and then. I just understand that there is a huge difference between the way I plan and conduct my flights vs the MG guys. Old Bob, The Purist
> Perhaps I have misjudged what I see on the OLC. How many retrieves have you had in the
> last two or three years? How does your planning and flying differ from the MG guys? My
> planning and flying did not change much when I got a motorglider, for example.
>
> By the way, "motorglider guys" do not all have the same goals, priorities, and skills:
> some soar cautiously and very rarely use the motor inflight; others push hard, and use the
> motor much more frequently.
> --
> Eric Greenwell - USA
> - "A Guide to Self-launching Sailplane Operation"
> https://sites.google.com/site/motorgliders/publications
Eric, I have had retrieves during the past few years and yes I will have more in the future. Yes, us purist do plan our flights accordingly and different from the MG guys and gals, we cannot make as many mistakes and therefore must optimize every opportunity. Simply stated and understood is the fact that we do not have that get home free pass hanging around our necks. What you and others have failed to acknowledge is the fact that purist flights are much more demanding and require mush better planning and execution that motor glider flights, we simply do not get a second chance.
You asked the question, 'How does my flight planning differ from MG flights", simple reply is that I do not have a get me out of this jam button to make me look like a hero! I think that your flights and planning differed more than you realize when you got a MG, I look at this guy in Florida that is flying some type of Pippencrap? and takes off from Boca and motors out for a while and then tries gliding only to start the motor back up to get home and scores his points on OLC and I just shake my head and laugh! Even "The Bum", would laugh at that scenario.
what amuses me is the fact that many MG guys and probably including yourself think that there is no difference between the purist flight and the saved by the start button switch flight. Do you think that I realize that there is a convenience of having a self launch, why heck yes, I have no problem with self launch, finding old guys like myself and my old Pawnee are like the flip phone, hardly can find one anymore.
So, what and how should the purist flight be scored differently than the MG flight? The purist flight should be given extra OLC points because of the void of the start button or the as I call it the beam me up Scotty button.
I hope that I have answered your questions regarding Purist flights vs MG flights. Take care and I will pray that your Solo engine continues to run. Old Bob, The Purist

Re: It Gets Worse

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Subject: Re: It Gets Worse
Date: Sat, 30 Apr 2022 20:46:14 -0700
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 by: Eric Greenwell - Sun, 1 May 2022 03:46 UTC

On 4/30/2022 5:33 PM, youngbl...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Saturday, April 30, 2022 at 7:53:56 PM UTC-4, Eric Greenwell wrote:
>> On 4/30/2022 3:31 PM, youngbl...@gmail.com wrote:
>>> On Saturday, April 30, 2022 at 4:54:58 PM UTC-4, Eric Greenwell wrote:
>>
>>>>> Eric, I understand this situation extremely well, been doing this gig for a long time and still having fun. My observation on motor gliders and sustainers is right on target, I do not have a problem flying my pure glider over areas where land out is a possibility, I must make good decisions unlike the motor glider drivers. The motor glider segment is for convenience, and I have no problem with that. When my skills erode to the point where I do not feel confident in making a challenging purist flight I will just hang it up and move on to something new and exciting, but until that time comes I will be a purist. Old Bob, The Purist
>>>> Most of us, including you and me, want to avoid the inconvenience of landing away from our
>>>> home airport. Motorglider owners have chosen a motor to provide the convenience of making
>>>> it home; you've chosen to soar very cautiously to provide the convenience of making it
>>>> home. It's not a bad thing, as it's what most of the towed glider pilots do to varying
>>>> extents, but it's not what I consider "challenging" flying, which inevitably involves
>>>> landing away a few times a year. After all, if you always make it home, you are likely
>>>> leaving a lot soaring "on the table", and could've gone faster, farther, or longer, or all
>>>> of those.
>>>> --
>>>> Eric Greenwell - USA
>>>> - "A Guide to Self-launching Sailplane Operation"
>>>> https://sites.google.com/site/motorgliders/publications
>>> Eric, please do not lose sleep over the Purist vs the MG ! I have not left a lot on the table during my years of glider flying, rather I still put down in strange places every now and then. I just understand that there is a huge difference between the way I plan and conduct my flights vs the MG guys. Old Bob, The Purist
>> Perhaps I have misjudged what I see on the OLC. How many retrieves have you had in the
>> last two or three years? How does your planning and flying differ from the MG guys? My
>> planning and flying did not change much when I got a motorglider, for example.
>>
>> By the way, "motorglider guys" do not all have the same goals, priorities, and skills:
>> some soar cautiously and very rarely use the motor inflight; others push hard, and use the
>> motor much more frequently.
>> --
>> Eric Greenwell - USA
>> - "A Guide to Self-launching Sailplane Operation"
>> https://sites.google.com/site/motorgliders/publications
> Eric, I have had retrieves during the past few years and yes I will have more in the future. Yes, us purist do plan our flights accordingly and different from the MG guys and gals, we cannot make as many mistakes and therefore must optimize every opportunity. Simply stated and understood is the fact that we do not have that get home free pass hanging around our necks. What you and others have failed to acknowledge is the fact that purist flights are much more demanding and require mush better planning and execution that motor glider flights, we simply do not get a second chance.
> You asked the question, 'How does my flight planning differ from MG flights", simple reply is that I do not have a get me out of this jam button to make me look like a hero! I think that your flights and planning differed more than you realize when you got a MG, I look at this guy in Florida that is flying some type of Pippencrap? and takes off from Boca and motors out for a while and then tries gliding only to start the motor back up to get home and scores his points on OLC and I just shake my head and laugh! Even "The Bum", would laugh at that scenario.
> what amuses me is the fact that many MG guys and probably including yourself think that there is no difference between the purist flight and the saved by the start button switch flight. Do you think that I realize that there is a convenience of having a self launch, why heck yes, I have no problem with self launch, finding old guys like myself and my old Pawnee are like the flip phone, hardly can find one anymore.
> So, what and how should the purist flight be scored differently than the MG flight? The purist flight should be given extra OLC points because of the void of the start button or the as I call it the beam me up Scotty button.
> I hope that I have answered your questions regarding Purist flights vs MG flights. Take care and I will pray that your Solo engine continues to run. Old Bob, The Purist

Look at the OLC, and you'll the motor is rarely used. Most MG pilots are SOARING pilots,
and we really want to complete the flight without using the motor. Before you tell MG
pilots how differently we plan and fly, you should fly a season in a motorglider, or make
at 10-15 flights in a two seat MG with a good pilot. If the OLC scoring is what burns your
butt, take it up with the OLC, and stop disparaging the MG pilots. We didn't write the rules.

--
Eric Greenwell - USA
- "A Guide to Self-launching Sailplane Operation"
https://sites.google.com/site/motorgliders/publications

Re: It Gets Worse

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Subject: Re: It Gets Worse
From: soar2mor...@yahoo.com (2G)
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 by: 2G - Sun, 1 May 2022 04:11 UTC

On Saturday, April 30, 2022 at 5:33:06 PM UTC-7, youngbl...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Saturday, April 30, 2022 at 7:53:56 PM UTC-4, Eric Greenwell wrote:
> > On 4/30/2022 3:31 PM, youngbl...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > On Saturday, April 30, 2022 at 4:54:58 PM UTC-4, Eric Greenwell wrote:
> >
> > >>> Eric, I understand this situation extremely well, been doing this gig for a long time and still having fun. My observation on motor gliders and sustainers is right on target, I do not have a problem flying my pure glider over areas where land out is a possibility, I must make good decisions unlike the motor glider drivers. The motor glider segment is for convenience, and I have no problem with that. When my skills erode to the point where I do not feel confident in making a challenging purist flight I will just hang it up and move on to something new and exciting, but until that time comes I will be a purist. Old Bob, The Purist
> > >> Most of us, including you and me, want to avoid the inconvenience of landing away from our
> > >> home airport. Motorglider owners have chosen a motor to provide the convenience of making
> > >> it home; you've chosen to soar very cautiously to provide the convenience of making it
> > >> home. It's not a bad thing, as it's what most of the towed glider pilots do to varying
> > >> extents, but it's not what I consider "challenging" flying, which inevitably involves
> > >> landing away a few times a year. After all, if you always make it home, you are likely
> > >> leaving a lot soaring "on the table", and could've gone faster, farther, or longer, or all
> > >> of those.
> > >> --
> > >> Eric Greenwell - USA
> > >> - "A Guide to Self-launching Sailplane Operation"
> > >> https://sites.google.com/site/motorgliders/publications
> > > Eric, please do not lose sleep over the Purist vs the MG ! I have not left a lot on the table during my years of glider flying, rather I still put down in strange places every now and then. I just understand that there is a huge difference between the way I plan and conduct my flights vs the MG guys. Old Bob, The Purist
> > Perhaps I have misjudged what I see on the OLC. How many retrieves have you had in the
> > last two or three years? How does your planning and flying differ from the MG guys? My
> > planning and flying did not change much when I got a motorglider, for example.
> >
> > By the way, "motorglider guys" do not all have the same goals, priorities, and skills:
> > some soar cautiously and very rarely use the motor inflight; others push hard, and use the
> > motor much more frequently.
> > --
> > Eric Greenwell - USA
> > - "A Guide to Self-launching Sailplane Operation"
> > https://sites.google.com/site/motorgliders/publications
> Eric, I have had retrieves during the past few years and yes I will have more in the future. Yes, us purist do plan our flights accordingly and different from the MG guys and gals, we cannot make as many mistakes and therefore must optimize every opportunity. Simply stated and understood is the fact that we do not have that get home free pass hanging around our necks. What you and others have failed to acknowledge is the fact that purist flights are much more demanding and require mush better planning and execution that motor glider flights, we simply do not get a second chance.
> You asked the question, 'How does my flight planning differ from MG flights", simple reply is that I do not have a get me out of this jam button to make me look like a hero! I think that your flights and planning differed more than you realize when you got a MG, I look at this guy in Florida that is flying some type of Pippencrap? and takes off from Boca and motors out for a while and then tries gliding only to start the motor back up to get home and scores his points on OLC and I just shake my head and laugh! Even "The Bum", would laugh at that scenario.
> what amuses me is the fact that many MG guys and probably including yourself think that there is no difference between the purist flight and the saved by the start button switch flight. Do you think that I realize that there is a convenience of having a self launch, why heck yes, I have no problem with self launch, finding old guys like myself and my old Pawnee are like the flip phone, hardly can find one anymore.
> So, what and how should the purist flight be scored differently than the MG flight? The purist flight should be given extra OLC points because of the void of the start button or the as I call it the beam me up Scotty button..
> I hope that I have answered your questions regarding Purist flights vs MG flights. Take care and I will pray that your Solo engine continues to run. Old Bob, The Purist

What a bunch of crap. Your "purist" lands at an airport, calls you up, and you go retrieve him with your Pawnee. The only difference is a little extra time and cost. And if he lands in a field he calls you up and you come with a trailer, pulled by a vehicle with an ENGINE! That IS IT! And you never responded to what I deem a REAL purist to be: a hill and a bungee cord - that is how the REAL purists did it way back when.

So, NO, you ARE NOT a purist, just a wannabe.

Tom

Re: It Gets Worse

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Subject: Re: It Gets Worse
From: youngblo...@gmail.com (youngbl...@gmail.com)
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 by: youngbl...@gmail.com - Sun, 1 May 2022 13:01 UTC

On Sunday, May 1, 2022 at 12:11:23 AM UTC-4, 2G wrote:
> On Saturday, April 30, 2022 at 5:33:06 PM UTC-7, youngbl...@gmail.com wrote:
> > On Saturday, April 30, 2022 at 7:53:56 PM UTC-4, Eric Greenwell wrote:
> > > On 4/30/2022 3:31 PM, youngbl...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > > On Saturday, April 30, 2022 at 4:54:58 PM UTC-4, Eric Greenwell wrote:
> > >
> > > >>> Eric, I understand this situation extremely well, been doing this gig for a long time and still having fun. My observation on motor gliders and sustainers is right on target, I do not have a problem flying my pure glider over areas where land out is a possibility, I must make good decisions unlike the motor glider drivers. The motor glider segment is for convenience, and I have no problem with that. When my skills erode to the point where I do not feel confident in making a challenging purist flight I will just hang it up and move on to something new and exciting, but until that time comes I will be a purist. Old Bob, The Purist
> > > >> Most of us, including you and me, want to avoid the inconvenience of landing away from our
> > > >> home airport. Motorglider owners have chosen a motor to provide the convenience of making
> > > >> it home; you've chosen to soar very cautiously to provide the convenience of making it
> > > >> home. It's not a bad thing, as it's what most of the towed glider pilots do to varying
> > > >> extents, but it's not what I consider "challenging" flying, which inevitably involves
> > > >> landing away a few times a year. After all, if you always make it home, you are likely
> > > >> leaving a lot soaring "on the table", and could've gone faster, farther, or longer, or all
> > > >> of those.
> > > >> --
> > > >> Eric Greenwell - USA
> > > >> - "A Guide to Self-launching Sailplane Operation"
> > > >> https://sites.google.com/site/motorgliders/publications
> > > > Eric, please do not lose sleep over the Purist vs the MG ! I have not left a lot on the table during my years of glider flying, rather I still put down in strange places every now and then. I just understand that there is a huge difference between the way I plan and conduct my flights vs the MG guys. Old Bob, The Purist
> > > Perhaps I have misjudged what I see on the OLC. How many retrieves have you had in the
> > > last two or three years? How does your planning and flying differ from the MG guys? My
> > > planning and flying did not change much when I got a motorglider, for example.
> > >
> > > By the way, "motorglider guys" do not all have the same goals, priorities, and skills:
> > > some soar cautiously and very rarely use the motor inflight; others push hard, and use the
> > > motor much more frequently.
> > > --
> > > Eric Greenwell - USA
> > > - "A Guide to Self-launching Sailplane Operation"
> > > https://sites.google.com/site/motorgliders/publications
> > Eric, I have had retrieves during the past few years and yes I will have more in the future. Yes, us purist do plan our flights accordingly and different from the MG guys and gals, we cannot make as many mistakes and therefore must optimize every opportunity. Simply stated and understood is the fact that we do not have that get home free pass hanging around our necks. What you and others have failed to acknowledge is the fact that purist flights are much more demanding and require mush better planning and execution that motor glider flights, we simply do not get a second chance.
> > You asked the question, 'How does my flight planning differ from MG flights", simple reply is that I do not have a get me out of this jam button to make me look like a hero! I think that your flights and planning differed more than you realize when you got a MG, I look at this guy in Florida that is flying some type of Pippencrap? and takes off from Boca and motors out for a while and then tries gliding only to start the motor back up to get home and scores his points on OLC and I just shake my head and laugh! Even "The Bum", would laugh at that scenario.
> > what amuses me is the fact that many MG guys and probably including yourself think that there is no difference between the purist flight and the saved by the start button switch flight. Do you think that I realize that there is a convenience of having a self launch, why heck yes, I have no problem with self launch, finding old guys like myself and my old Pawnee are like the flip phone, hardly can find one anymore.
> > So, what and how should the purist flight be scored differently than the MG flight? The purist flight should be given extra OLC points because of the void of the start button or the as I call it the beam me up Scotty button.
> > I hope that I have answered your questions regarding Purist flights vs MG flights. Take care and I will pray that your Solo engine continues to run. Old Bob, The Purist
> What a bunch of crap. Your "purist" lands at an airport, calls you up, and you go retrieve him with your Pawnee. The only difference is a little extra time and cost. And if he lands in a field he calls you up and you come with a trailer, pulled by a vehicle with an ENGINE! That IS IT! And you never responded to what I deem a REAL purist to be: a hill and a bungee cord - that is how the REAL purists did it way back when.
>
> So, NO, you ARE NOT a purist, just a wannabe.
>
> Tom
Thomas, you should control your emotions, you are making the MG community look really bad. Your best friend, Old Bob, The Purist

Re: It Gets Worse

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Subject: Re: It Gets Worse
From: campbell...@gmail.com (Jay Campbell)
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 by: Jay Campbell - Sun, 1 May 2022 13:27 UTC

On Sunday, May 1, 2022 at 9:01:04 AM UTC-4, youngbl...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Sunday, May 1, 2022 at 12:11:23 AM UTC-4, 2G wrote:
> > On Saturday, April 30, 2022 at 5:33:06 PM UTC-7, youngbl...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > On Saturday, April 30, 2022 at 7:53:56 PM UTC-4, Eric Greenwell wrote:
> > > > On 4/30/2022 3:31 PM, youngbl...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > > > On Saturday, April 30, 2022 at 4:54:58 PM UTC-4, Eric Greenwell wrote:
> > > >
> > > > >>> Eric, I understand this situation extremely well, been doing this gig for a long time and still having fun. My observation on motor gliders and sustainers is right on target, I do not have a problem flying my pure glider over areas where land out is a possibility, I must make good decisions unlike the motor glider drivers. The motor glider segment is for convenience, and I have no problem with that. When my skills erode to the point where I do not feel confident in making a challenging purist flight I will just hang it up and move on to something new and exciting, but until that time comes I will be a purist. Old Bob, The Purist
> > > > >> Most of us, including you and me, want to avoid the inconvenience of landing away from our
> > > > >> home airport. Motorglider owners have chosen a motor to provide the convenience of making
> > > > >> it home; you've chosen to soar very cautiously to provide the convenience of making it
> > > > >> home. It's not a bad thing, as it's what most of the towed glider pilots do to varying
> > > > >> extents, but it's not what I consider "challenging" flying, which inevitably involves
> > > > >> landing away a few times a year. After all, if you always make it home, you are likely
> > > > >> leaving a lot soaring "on the table", and could've gone faster, farther, or longer, or all
> > > > >> of those.
> > > > >> --
> > > > >> Eric Greenwell - USA
> > > > >> - "A Guide to Self-launching Sailplane Operation"
> > > > >> https://sites.google.com/site/motorgliders/publications
> > > > > Eric, please do not lose sleep over the Purist vs the MG ! I have not left a lot on the table during my years of glider flying, rather I still put down in strange places every now and then. I just understand that there is a huge difference between the way I plan and conduct my flights vs the MG guys. Old Bob, The Purist
> > > > Perhaps I have misjudged what I see on the OLC. How many retrieves have you had in the
> > > > last two or three years? How does your planning and flying differ from the MG guys? My
> > > > planning and flying did not change much when I got a motorglider, for example.
> > > >
> > > > By the way, "motorglider guys" do not all have the same goals, priorities, and skills:
> > > > some soar cautiously and very rarely use the motor inflight; others push hard, and use the
> > > > motor much more frequently.
> > > > --
> > > > Eric Greenwell - USA
> > > > - "A Guide to Self-launching Sailplane Operation"
> > > > https://sites.google.com/site/motorgliders/publications
> > > Eric, I have had retrieves during the past few years and yes I will have more in the future. Yes, us purist do plan our flights accordingly and different from the MG guys and gals, we cannot make as many mistakes and therefore must optimize every opportunity. Simply stated and understood is the fact that we do not have that get home free pass hanging around our necks.. What you and others have failed to acknowledge is the fact that purist flights are much more demanding and require mush better planning and execution that motor glider flights, we simply do not get a second chance.
> > > You asked the question, 'How does my flight planning differ from MG flights", simple reply is that I do not have a get me out of this jam button to make me look like a hero! I think that your flights and planning differed more than you realize when you got a MG, I look at this guy in Florida that is flying some type of Pippencrap? and takes off from Boca and motors out for a while and then tries gliding only to start the motor back up to get home and scores his points on OLC and I just shake my head and laugh! Even "The Bum", would laugh at that scenario.
> > > what amuses me is the fact that many MG guys and probably including yourself think that there is no difference between the purist flight and the saved by the start button switch flight. Do you think that I realize that there is a convenience of having a self launch, why heck yes, I have no problem with self launch, finding old guys like myself and my old Pawnee are like the flip phone, hardly can find one anymore.
> > > So, what and how should the purist flight be scored differently than the MG flight? The purist flight should be given extra OLC points because of the void of the start button or the as I call it the beam me up Scotty button.
> > > I hope that I have answered your questions regarding Purist flights vs MG flights. Take care and I will pray that your Solo engine continues to run. Old Bob, The Purist
> > What a bunch of crap. Your "purist" lands at an airport, calls you up, and you go retrieve him with your Pawnee. The only difference is a little extra time and cost. And if he lands in a field he calls you up and you come with a trailer, pulled by a vehicle with an ENGINE! That IS IT! And you never responded to what I deem a REAL purist to be: a hill and a bungee cord - that is how the REAL purists did it way back when.
> >
> > So, NO, you ARE NOT a purist, just a wannabe.
> >
> > Tom
> Thomas, you should control your emotions, you are making the MG community look really bad. Your best friend, Old Bob, The Purist
Dale Carnegie said: “The only way to win an argument is to avoid it..” So, I'm going soaring and not worrying about what you think of my choice of sailplanes. I know what I think, and that is the only important consideration for me.

Re: It Gets Worse

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Subject: Re: It Gets Worse
From: johnfir...@gmail.com (john firth)
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 by: john firth - Sun, 1 May 2022 18:24 UTC

On Sunday, May 1, 2022 at 9:27:23 AM UTC-4, campbe...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Sunday, May 1, 2022 at 9:01:04 AM UTC-4, youngbl...@gmail.com wrote:
> > On Sunday, May 1, 2022 at 12:11:23 AM UTC-4, 2G wrote:
> > > On Saturday, April 30, 2022 at 5:33:06 PM UTC-7, youngbl...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > > On Saturday, April 30, 2022 at 7:53:56 PM UTC-4, Eric Greenwell wrote:
> > > > > On 4/30/2022 3:31 PM, youngbl...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > > > > On Saturday, April 30, 2022 at 4:54:58 PM UTC-4, Eric Greenwell wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > >>> Eric, I understand this situation extremely well, been doing this gig for a long time and still having fun. My observation on motor gliders and sustainers is right on target, I do not have a problem flying my pure glider over areas where land out is a possibility, I must make good decisions unlike the motor glider drivers. The motor glider segment is for convenience, and I have no problem with that. When my skills erode to the point where I do not feel confident in making a challenging purist flight I will just hang it up and move on to something new and exciting, but until that time comes I will be a purist. Old Bob, The Purist
> > > > > >> Most of us, including you and me, want to avoid the inconvenience of landing away from our
> > > > > >> home airport. Motorglider owners have chosen a motor to provide the convenience of making
> > > > > >> it home; you've chosen to soar very cautiously to provide the convenience of making it
> > > > > >> home. It's not a bad thing, as it's what most of the towed glider pilots do to varying
> > > > > >> extents, but it's not what I consider "challenging" flying, which inevitably involves
> > > > > >> landing away a few times a year. After all, if you always make it home, you are likely
> > > > > >> leaving a lot soaring "on the table", and could've gone faster, farther, or longer, or all
> > > > > >> of those.
> > > > > >> --
> > > > > >> Eric Greenwell - USA
> > > > > >> - "A Guide to Self-launching Sailplane Operation"
> > > > > >> https://sites.google.com/site/motorgliders/publications
> > > > > > Eric, please do not lose sleep over the Purist vs the MG ! I have not left a lot on the table during my years of glider flying, rather I still put down in strange places every now and then. I just understand that there is a huge difference between the way I plan and conduct my flights vs the MG guys. Old Bob, The Purist
> > > > > Perhaps I have misjudged what I see on the OLC. How many retrieves have you had in the
> > > > > last two or three years? How does your planning and flying differ from the MG guys? My
> > > > > planning and flying did not change much when I got a motorglider, for example.
> > > > >
> > > > > By the way, "motorglider guys" do not all have the same goals, priorities, and skills:
> > > > > some soar cautiously and very rarely use the motor inflight; others push hard, and use the
> > > > > motor much more frequently.
> > > > > --
> > > > > Eric Greenwell - USA
> > > > > - "A Guide to Self-launching Sailplane Operation"
> > > > > https://sites.google.com/site/motorgliders/publications
> > > > Eric, I have had retrieves during the past few years and yes I will have more in the future. Yes, us purist do plan our flights accordingly and different from the MG guys and gals, we cannot make as many mistakes and therefore must optimize every opportunity. Simply stated and understood is the fact that we do not have that get home free pass hanging around our necks. What you and others have failed to acknowledge is the fact that purist flights are much more demanding and require mush better planning and execution that motor glider flights, we simply do not get a second chance.
> > > > You asked the question, 'How does my flight planning differ from MG flights", simple reply is that I do not have a get me out of this jam button to make me look like a hero! I think that your flights and planning differed more than you realize when you got a MG, I look at this guy in Florida that is flying some type of Pippencrap? and takes off from Boca and motors out for a while and then tries gliding only to start the motor back up to get home and scores his points on OLC and I just shake my head and laugh! Even "The Bum", would laugh at that scenario.
> > > > what amuses me is the fact that many MG guys and probably including yourself think that there is no difference between the purist flight and the saved by the start button switch flight. Do you think that I realize that there is a convenience of having a self launch, why heck yes, I have no problem with self launch, finding old guys like myself and my old Pawnee are like the flip phone, hardly can find one anymore.
> > > > So, what and how should the purist flight be scored differently than the MG flight? The purist flight should be given extra OLC points because of the void of the start button or the as I call it the beam me up Scotty button.
> > > > I hope that I have answered your questions regarding Purist flights vs MG flights. Take care and I will pray that your Solo engine continues to run. Old Bob, The Purist
> > > What a bunch of crap. Your "purist" lands at an airport, calls you up, and you go retrieve him with your Pawnee. The only difference is a little extra time and cost. And if he lands in a field he calls you up and you come with a trailer, pulled by a vehicle with an ENGINE! That IS IT! And you never responded to what I deem a REAL purist to be: a hill and a bungee cord - that is how the REAL purists did it way back when.
> > >
> > > So, NO, you ARE NOT a purist, just a wannabe.
> > >
> > > Tom
> > Thomas, you should control your emotions, you are making the MG community look really bad. Your best friend, Old Bob, The Purist
You claim using a bungee to launch is pure? You are imposing on 4, 6 or 8 persons to get you into
the air; the real pure method is gravity launch of which there is a Utube video, at a club in central Europe.
Only a hill ,a paved track and a wing runner.
A close second , was an ex CUGC owner of a hotel in the Welsh mountains, with an Olympia, a bungee,
and a Land Rover, wing stands and a tail hook release. You get the idea.
JMF

> Dale Carnegie said: “The only way to win an argument is to avoid it.” So, I'm going soaring and not worrying about what you think of my choice of sailplanes. I know what I think, and that is the only important consideration for me.

Re: It Gets Worse

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Subject: Re: It Gets Worse
From: soar2mor...@yahoo.com (2G)
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 by: 2G - Sun, 1 May 2022 22:50 UTC

On Sunday, May 1, 2022 at 6:01:04 AM UTC-7, youngbl...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Sunday, May 1, 2022 at 12:11:23 AM UTC-4, 2G wrote:
> > On Saturday, April 30, 2022 at 5:33:06 PM UTC-7, youngbl...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > On Saturday, April 30, 2022 at 7:53:56 PM UTC-4, Eric Greenwell wrote:
> > > > On 4/30/2022 3:31 PM, youngbl...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > > > On Saturday, April 30, 2022 at 4:54:58 PM UTC-4, Eric Greenwell wrote:
> > > >
> > > > >>> Eric, I understand this situation extremely well, been doing this gig for a long time and still having fun. My observation on motor gliders and sustainers is right on target, I do not have a problem flying my pure glider over areas where land out is a possibility, I must make good decisions unlike the motor glider drivers. The motor glider segment is for convenience, and I have no problem with that. When my skills erode to the point where I do not feel confident in making a challenging purist flight I will just hang it up and move on to something new and exciting, but until that time comes I will be a purist. Old Bob, The Purist
> > > > >> Most of us, including you and me, want to avoid the inconvenience of landing away from our
> > > > >> home airport. Motorglider owners have chosen a motor to provide the convenience of making
> > > > >> it home; you've chosen to soar very cautiously to provide the convenience of making it
> > > > >> home. It's not a bad thing, as it's what most of the towed glider pilots do to varying
> > > > >> extents, but it's not what I consider "challenging" flying, which inevitably involves
> > > > >> landing away a few times a year. After all, if you always make it home, you are likely
> > > > >> leaving a lot soaring "on the table", and could've gone faster, farther, or longer, or all
> > > > >> of those.
> > > > >> --
> > > > >> Eric Greenwell - USA
> > > > >> - "A Guide to Self-launching Sailplane Operation"
> > > > >> https://sites.google.com/site/motorgliders/publications
> > > > > Eric, please do not lose sleep over the Purist vs the MG ! I have not left a lot on the table during my years of glider flying, rather I still put down in strange places every now and then. I just understand that there is a huge difference between the way I plan and conduct my flights vs the MG guys. Old Bob, The Purist
> > > > Perhaps I have misjudged what I see on the OLC. How many retrieves have you had in the
> > > > last two or three years? How does your planning and flying differ from the MG guys? My
> > > > planning and flying did not change much when I got a motorglider, for example.
> > > >
> > > > By the way, "motorglider guys" do not all have the same goals, priorities, and skills:
> > > > some soar cautiously and very rarely use the motor inflight; others push hard, and use the
> > > > motor much more frequently.
> > > > --
> > > > Eric Greenwell - USA
> > > > - "A Guide to Self-launching Sailplane Operation"
> > > > https://sites.google.com/site/motorgliders/publications
> > > Eric, I have had retrieves during the past few years and yes I will have more in the future. Yes, us purist do plan our flights accordingly and different from the MG guys and gals, we cannot make as many mistakes and therefore must optimize every opportunity. Simply stated and understood is the fact that we do not have that get home free pass hanging around our necks.. What you and others have failed to acknowledge is the fact that purist flights are much more demanding and require mush better planning and execution that motor glider flights, we simply do not get a second chance.
> > > You asked the question, 'How does my flight planning differ from MG flights", simple reply is that I do not have a get me out of this jam button to make me look like a hero! I think that your flights and planning differed more than you realize when you got a MG, I look at this guy in Florida that is flying some type of Pippencrap? and takes off from Boca and motors out for a while and then tries gliding only to start the motor back up to get home and scores his points on OLC and I just shake my head and laugh! Even "The Bum", would laugh at that scenario.
> > > what amuses me is the fact that many MG guys and probably including yourself think that there is no difference between the purist flight and the saved by the start button switch flight. Do you think that I realize that there is a convenience of having a self launch, why heck yes, I have no problem with self launch, finding old guys like myself and my old Pawnee are like the flip phone, hardly can find one anymore.
> > > So, what and how should the purist flight be scored differently than the MG flight? The purist flight should be given extra OLC points because of the void of the start button or the as I call it the beam me up Scotty button.
> > > I hope that I have answered your questions regarding Purist flights vs MG flights. Take care and I will pray that your Solo engine continues to run. Old Bob, The Purist
> > What a bunch of crap. Your "purist" lands at an airport, calls you up, and you go retrieve him with your Pawnee. The only difference is a little extra time and cost. And if he lands in a field he calls you up and you come with a trailer, pulled by a vehicle with an ENGINE! That IS IT! And you never responded to what I deem a REAL purist to be: a hill and a bungee cord - that is how the REAL purists did it way back when.
> >
> > So, NO, you ARE NOT a purist, just a wannabe.
> >
> > Tom
> Thomas, you should control your emotions, you are making the MG community look really bad. Your best friend, Old Bob, The Purist

Hey Bob,

I see that you have no meaningful reply to my accurate observations, just more hubris.

Tom

Re: It Gets Worse

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Subject: Re: It Gets Worse
From: soar2mor...@yahoo.com (2G)
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 by: 2G - Sun, 1 May 2022 22:54 UTC

On Sunday, May 1, 2022 at 11:24:03 AM UTC-7, john firth wrote:
> On Sunday, May 1, 2022 at 9:27:23 AM UTC-4, campbe...@gmail.com wrote:
> > On Sunday, May 1, 2022 at 9:01:04 AM UTC-4, youngbl...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > On Sunday, May 1, 2022 at 12:11:23 AM UTC-4, 2G wrote:
> > > > On Saturday, April 30, 2022 at 5:33:06 PM UTC-7, youngbl...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > > > On Saturday, April 30, 2022 at 7:53:56 PM UTC-4, Eric Greenwell wrote:
> > > > > > On 4/30/2022 3:31 PM, youngbl...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > > > > > On Saturday, April 30, 2022 at 4:54:58 PM UTC-4, Eric Greenwell wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > >>> Eric, I understand this situation extremely well, been doing this gig for a long time and still having fun. My observation on motor gliders and sustainers is right on target, I do not have a problem flying my pure glider over areas where land out is a possibility, I must make good decisions unlike the motor glider drivers. The motor glider segment is for convenience, and I have no problem with that. When my skills erode to the point where I do not feel confident in making a challenging purist flight I will just hang it up and move on to something new and exciting, but until that time comes I will be a purist. Old Bob, The Purist
> > > > > > >> Most of us, including you and me, want to avoid the inconvenience of landing away from our
> > > > > > >> home airport. Motorglider owners have chosen a motor to provide the convenience of making
> > > > > > >> it home; you've chosen to soar very cautiously to provide the convenience of making it
> > > > > > >> home. It's not a bad thing, as it's what most of the towed glider pilots do to varying
> > > > > > >> extents, but it's not what I consider "challenging" flying, which inevitably involves
> > > > > > >> landing away a few times a year. After all, if you always make it home, you are likely
> > > > > > >> leaving a lot soaring "on the table", and could've gone faster, farther, or longer, or all
> > > > > > >> of those.
> > > > > > >> --
> > > > > > >> Eric Greenwell - USA
> > > > > > >> - "A Guide to Self-launching Sailplane Operation"
> > > > > > >> https://sites.google.com/site/motorgliders/publications
> > > > > > > Eric, please do not lose sleep over the Purist vs the MG ! I have not left a lot on the table during my years of glider flying, rather I still put down in strange places every now and then. I just understand that there is a huge difference between the way I plan and conduct my flights vs the MG guys. Old Bob, The Purist
> > > > > > Perhaps I have misjudged what I see on the OLC. How many retrieves have you had in the
> > > > > > last two or three years? How does your planning and flying differ from the MG guys? My
> > > > > > planning and flying did not change much when I got a motorglider, for example.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > By the way, "motorglider guys" do not all have the same goals, priorities, and skills:
> > > > > > some soar cautiously and very rarely use the motor inflight; others push hard, and use the
> > > > > > motor much more frequently.
> > > > > > --
> > > > > > Eric Greenwell - USA
> > > > > > - "A Guide to Self-launching Sailplane Operation"
> > > > > > https://sites.google.com/site/motorgliders/publications
> > > > > Eric, I have had retrieves during the past few years and yes I will have more in the future. Yes, us purist do plan our flights accordingly and different from the MG guys and gals, we cannot make as many mistakes and therefore must optimize every opportunity. Simply stated and understood is the fact that we do not have that get home free pass hanging around our necks. What you and others have failed to acknowledge is the fact that purist flights are much more demanding and require mush better planning and execution that motor glider flights, we simply do not get a second chance.
> > > > > You asked the question, 'How does my flight planning differ from MG flights", simple reply is that I do not have a get me out of this jam button to make me look like a hero! I think that your flights and planning differed more than you realize when you got a MG, I look at this guy in Florida that is flying some type of Pippencrap? and takes off from Boca and motors out for a while and then tries gliding only to start the motor back up to get home and scores his points on OLC and I just shake my head and laugh! Even "The Bum", would laugh at that scenario.
> > > > > what amuses me is the fact that many MG guys and probably including yourself think that there is no difference between the purist flight and the saved by the start button switch flight. Do you think that I realize that there is a convenience of having a self launch, why heck yes, I have no problem with self launch, finding old guys like myself and my old Pawnee are like the flip phone, hardly can find one anymore.
> > > > > So, what and how should the purist flight be scored differently than the MG flight? The purist flight should be given extra OLC points because of the void of the start button or the as I call it the beam me up Scotty button.
> > > > > I hope that I have answered your questions regarding Purist flights vs MG flights. Take care and I will pray that your Solo engine continues to run. Old Bob, The Purist
> > > > What a bunch of crap. Your "purist" lands at an airport, calls you up, and you go retrieve him with your Pawnee. The only difference is a little extra time and cost. And if he lands in a field he calls you up and you come with a trailer, pulled by a vehicle with an ENGINE! That IS IT! And you never responded to what I deem a REAL purist to be: a hill and a bungee cord - that is how the REAL purists did it way back when.
> > > >
> > > > So, NO, you ARE NOT a purist, just a wannabe.
> > > >
> > > > Tom
> > > Thomas, you should control your emotions, you are making the MG community look really bad. Your best friend, Old Bob, The Purist
> You claim using a bungee to launch is pure? You are imposing on 4, 6 or 8 persons to get you into
> the air; the real pure method is gravity launch of which there is a Utube video, at a club in central Europe.
> Only a hill ,a paved track and a wing runner.
> A close second , was an ex CUGC owner of a hotel in the Welsh mountains, with an Olympia, a bungee,
> and a Land Rover, wing stands and a tail hook release. You get the idea.
> JMF
> > Dale Carnegie said: “The only way to win an argument is to avoid it.” So, I'm going soaring and not worrying about what you think of my choice of sailplanes. I know what I think, and that is the only important consideration for me.

Damn right - it doesn't using any engine whatsoever, just gravity and some human power. I guess you could substitute a horse if you wanted my horsepower.

Tom

Re: It Gets Worse

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Subject: Re: It Gets Worse
From: ramyyan...@gmail.com (Ramy)
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 by: Ramy - Mon, 2 May 2022 03:17 UTC

Bob, I have a solution. A motorglider which can only use the engine to launch. Once the engine is shut down, it can no longer restarted until landing. What do you think? I guess the motorgliders can still landout in an airstrip and relaunch, so should we tweak it so the engine can not be restarted again the same day?

Ramy (just trying to help)

P.S. I love Bob’s entertainment. Some of us are taking ourselves way too seriously.

On Saturday, April 30, 2022 at 5:33:06 PM UTC-7, youngbl...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Saturday, April 30, 2022 at 7:53:56 PM UTC-4, Eric Greenwell wrote:
> > On 4/30/2022 3:31 PM, youngbl...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > On Saturday, April 30, 2022 at 4:54:58 PM UTC-4, Eric Greenwell wrote:
> >
> > >>> Eric, I understand this situation extremely well, been doing this gig for a long time and still having fun. My observation on motor gliders and sustainers is right on target, I do not have a problem flying my pure glider over areas where land out is a possibility, I must make good decisions unlike the motor glider drivers. The motor glider segment is for convenience, and I have no problem with that. When my skills erode to the point where I do not feel confident in making a challenging purist flight I will just hang it up and move on to something new and exciting, but until that time comes I will be a purist. Old Bob, The Purist
> > >> Most of us, including you and me, want to avoid the inconvenience of landing away from our
> > >> home airport. Motorglider owners have chosen a motor to provide the convenience of making
> > >> it home; you've chosen to soar very cautiously to provide the convenience of making it
> > >> home. It's not a bad thing, as it's what most of the towed glider pilots do to varying
> > >> extents, but it's not what I consider "challenging" flying, which inevitably involves
> > >> landing away a few times a year. After all, if you always make it home, you are likely
> > >> leaving a lot soaring "on the table", and could've gone faster, farther, or longer, or all
> > >> of those.
> > >> --
> > >> Eric Greenwell - USA
> > >> - "A Guide to Self-launching Sailplane Operation"
> > >> https://sites.google.com/site/motorgliders/publications
> > > Eric, please do not lose sleep over the Purist vs the MG ! I have not left a lot on the table during my years of glider flying, rather I still put down in strange places every now and then. I just understand that there is a huge difference between the way I plan and conduct my flights vs the MG guys. Old Bob, The Purist
> > Perhaps I have misjudged what I see on the OLC. How many retrieves have you had in the
> > last two or three years? How does your planning and flying differ from the MG guys? My
> > planning and flying did not change much when I got a motorglider, for example.
> >
> > By the way, "motorglider guys" do not all have the same goals, priorities, and skills:
> > some soar cautiously and very rarely use the motor inflight; others push hard, and use the
> > motor much more frequently.
> > --
> > Eric Greenwell - USA
> > - "A Guide to Self-launching Sailplane Operation"
> > https://sites.google.com/site/motorgliders/publications
> Eric, I have had retrieves during the past few years and yes I will have more in the future. Yes, us purist do plan our flights accordingly and different from the MG guys and gals, we cannot make as many mistakes and therefore must optimize every opportunity. Simply stated and understood is the fact that we do not have that get home free pass hanging around our necks. What you and others have failed to acknowledge is the fact that purist flights are much more demanding and require mush better planning and execution that motor glider flights, we simply do not get a second chance.
> You asked the question, 'How does my flight planning differ from MG flights", simple reply is that I do not have a get me out of this jam button to make me look like a hero! I think that your flights and planning differed more than you realize when you got a MG, I look at this guy in Florida that is flying some type of Pippencrap? and takes off from Boca and motors out for a while and then tries gliding only to start the motor back up to get home and scores his points on OLC and I just shake my head and laugh! Even "The Bum", would laugh at that scenario.
> what amuses me is the fact that many MG guys and probably including yourself think that there is no difference between the purist flight and the saved by the start button switch flight. Do you think that I realize that there is a convenience of having a self launch, why heck yes, I have no problem with self launch, finding old guys like myself and my old Pawnee are like the flip phone, hardly can find one anymore.
> So, what and how should the purist flight be scored differently than the MG flight? The purist flight should be given extra OLC points because of the void of the start button or the as I call it the beam me up Scotty button..
> I hope that I have answered your questions regarding Purist flights vs MG flights. Take care and I will pray that your Solo engine continues to run. Old Bob, The Purist

Re: It Gets Worse

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Subject: Re: It Gets Worse
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 by: 2G - Mon, 2 May 2022 04:15 UTC

On Sunday, May 1, 2022 at 8:17:09 PM UTC-7, Ramy wrote:
> Bob, I have a solution. A motorglider which can only use the engine to launch. Once the engine is shut down, it can no longer restarted until landing. What do you think? I guess the motorgliders can still landout in an airstrip and relaunch, so should we tweak it so the engine can not be restarted again the same day?
>
> Ramy (just trying to help)
>
> P.S. I love Bob’s entertainment. Some of us are taking ourselves way too seriously.
> On Saturday, April 30, 2022 at 5:33:06 PM UTC-7, youngbl...@gmail.com wrote:
> > On Saturday, April 30, 2022 at 7:53:56 PM UTC-4, Eric Greenwell wrote:
> > > On 4/30/2022 3:31 PM, youngbl...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > > On Saturday, April 30, 2022 at 4:54:58 PM UTC-4, Eric Greenwell wrote:
> > >
> > > >>> Eric, I understand this situation extremely well, been doing this gig for a long time and still having fun. My observation on motor gliders and sustainers is right on target, I do not have a problem flying my pure glider over areas where land out is a possibility, I must make good decisions unlike the motor glider drivers. The motor glider segment is for convenience, and I have no problem with that. When my skills erode to the point where I do not feel confident in making a challenging purist flight I will just hang it up and move on to something new and exciting, but until that time comes I will be a purist. Old Bob, The Purist
> > > >> Most of us, including you and me, want to avoid the inconvenience of landing away from our
> > > >> home airport. Motorglider owners have chosen a motor to provide the convenience of making
> > > >> it home; you've chosen to soar very cautiously to provide the convenience of making it
> > > >> home. It's not a bad thing, as it's what most of the towed glider pilots do to varying
> > > >> extents, but it's not what I consider "challenging" flying, which inevitably involves
> > > >> landing away a few times a year. After all, if you always make it home, you are likely
> > > >> leaving a lot soaring "on the table", and could've gone faster, farther, or longer, or all
> > > >> of those.
> > > >> --
> > > >> Eric Greenwell - USA
> > > >> - "A Guide to Self-launching Sailplane Operation"
> > > >> https://sites.google.com/site/motorgliders/publications
> > > > Eric, please do not lose sleep over the Purist vs the MG ! I have not left a lot on the table during my years of glider flying, rather I still put down in strange places every now and then. I just understand that there is a huge difference between the way I plan and conduct my flights vs the MG guys. Old Bob, The Purist
> > > Perhaps I have misjudged what I see on the OLC. How many retrieves have you had in the
> > > last two or three years? How does your planning and flying differ from the MG guys? My
> > > planning and flying did not change much when I got a motorglider, for example.
> > >
> > > By the way, "motorglider guys" do not all have the same goals, priorities, and skills:
> > > some soar cautiously and very rarely use the motor inflight; others push hard, and use the
> > > motor much more frequently.
> > > --
> > > Eric Greenwell - USA
> > > - "A Guide to Self-launching Sailplane Operation"
> > > https://sites.google.com/site/motorgliders/publications
> > Eric, I have had retrieves during the past few years and yes I will have more in the future. Yes, us purist do plan our flights accordingly and different from the MG guys and gals, we cannot make as many mistakes and therefore must optimize every opportunity. Simply stated and understood is the fact that we do not have that get home free pass hanging around our necks. What you and others have failed to acknowledge is the fact that purist flights are much more demanding and require mush better planning and execution that motor glider flights, we simply do not get a second chance.
> > You asked the question, 'How does my flight planning differ from MG flights", simple reply is that I do not have a get me out of this jam button to make me look like a hero! I think that your flights and planning differed more than you realize when you got a MG, I look at this guy in Florida that is flying some type of Pippencrap? and takes off from Boca and motors out for a while and then tries gliding only to start the motor back up to get home and scores his points on OLC and I just shake my head and laugh! Even "The Bum", would laugh at that scenario.
> > what amuses me is the fact that many MG guys and probably including yourself think that there is no difference between the purist flight and the saved by the start button switch flight. Do you think that I realize that there is a convenience of having a self launch, why heck yes, I have no problem with self launch, finding old guys like myself and my old Pawnee are like the flip phone, hardly can find one anymore.
> > So, what and how should the purist flight be scored differently than the MG flight? The purist flight should be given extra OLC points because of the void of the start button or the as I call it the beam me up Scotty button.
> > I hope that I have answered your questions regarding Purist flights vs MG flights. Take care and I will pray that your Solo engine continues to run. Old Bob, The Purist

Hey Ramy, no need to ask Old Bob - I can tell you that he HATES any kind of engine in a glider. Why? I have absolutely no idea other than he sees it as competition for his towplane.

Tom

Re: It Gets Worse

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From: own...@thegreenwells.netto (Eric Greenwell)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.soaring
Subject: Re: It Gets Worse
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 by: Eric Greenwell - Mon, 2 May 2022 04:16 UTC

One tow a day! NO relights! Well, OK, you can retrieve by aerotow, but you have to keep
the rope until you are back in the pattern. Motorgliders can use the motor to
self-retrieve, but have to wait at least an hour before using the motor, and must motor
all the way back. Or trailer. No restrictions on trailer retrieves.

Now, a towed pilot with a lot of money, could pay a crew to follow him around with the
trailer for an "instant retrieve" capability. Or, or, pay for a towplane to follow him
around in the air a discreet 5 miles behind, ready to do an aeroretrieve a few minutes
after the soaring pilot lands at an airport.

On 5/1/2022 8:17 PM, Ramy wrote:
> Bob, I have a solution. A motorglider which can only use the engine to launch. Once the engine is shut down, it can no longer restarted until landing. What do you think? I guess the motorgliders can still landout in an airstrip and relaunch, so should we tweak it so the engine can not be restarted again the same day?
>
> Ramy (just trying to help)
>
> P.S. I love Bob’s entertainment. Some of us are taking ourselves way too seriously.

Re: It Gets Worse

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 by: youngbl...@gmail.com - Mon, 2 May 2022 06:05 UTC

On Sunday, May 1, 2022 at 11:17:09 PM UTC-4, Ramy wrote:
> Bob, I have a solution. A motorglider which can only use the engine to launch. Once the engine is shut down, it can no longer restarted until landing. What do you think? I guess the motorgliders can still landout in an airstrip and relaunch, so should we tweak it so the engine can not be restarted again the same day?
>
> Ramy (just trying to help)
> Ramy,I would love to have that kill switch on Motorgliders, one and done! The engine electronic ignition could be programmed to shut down after the initial launch and not start again until the landing sensor has been activated after the landing, what a great idea. What about the idea of if you start your sustainer you get no points on OLC for the day, and if you have a sustainer or self launch you are actually penalized for your flight.
On another note, I have stated in the past that I do understand the self launch aspect of this motorglider segment, who knows, maybe one day Old Bob may have a self launch, but not with one of the Solo engines that seems to have a lifespan of less than 200 hours, what a bargain! What about a carbon tax on motorgliders, make these MG pilots pay for pollution, a special environmental fund.
Yep Ramy, some of these guys take this stuff way too serious, I seem to bring out the best in these motorglider pilots, my mailbox will be full of hate mail once again. Old Bob, The Purist
> P.S. I love Bob’s entertainment. Some of us are taking ourselves way too seriously.
> On Saturday, April 30, 2022 at 5:33:06 PM UTC-7, youngbl...@gmail.com wrote:
> > On Saturday, April 30, 2022 at 7:53:56 PM UTC-4, Eric Greenwell wrote:
> > > On 4/30/2022 3:31 PM, youngbl...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > > On Saturday, April 30, 2022 at 4:54:58 PM UTC-4, Eric Greenwell wrote:
> > >
> > > >>> Eric, I understand this situation extremely well, been doing this gig for a long time and still having fun. My observation on motor gliders and sustainers is right on target, I do not have a problem flying my pure glider over areas where land out is a possibility, I must make good decisions unlike the motor glider drivers. The motor glider segment is for convenience, and I have no problem with that. When my skills erode to the point where I do not feel confident in making a challenging purist flight I will just hang it up and move on to something new and exciting, but until that time comes I will be a purist. Old Bob, The Purist
> > > >> Most of us, including you and me, want to avoid the inconvenience of landing away from our
> > > >> home airport. Motorglider owners have chosen a motor to provide the convenience of making
> > > >> it home; you've chosen to soar very cautiously to provide the convenience of making it
> > > >> home. It's not a bad thing, as it's what most of the towed glider pilots do to varying
> > > >> extents, but it's not what I consider "challenging" flying, which inevitably involves
> > > >> landing away a few times a year. After all, if you always make it home, you are likely
> > > >> leaving a lot soaring "on the table", and could've gone faster, farther, or longer, or all
> > > >> of those.
> > > >> --
> > > >> Eric Greenwell - USA
> > > >> - "A Guide to Self-launching Sailplane Operation"
> > > >> https://sites.google.com/site/motorgliders/publications
> > > > Eric, please do not lose sleep over the Purist vs the MG ! I have not left a lot on the table during my years of glider flying, rather I still put down in strange places every now and then. I just understand that there is a huge difference between the way I plan and conduct my flights vs the MG guys. Old Bob, The Purist
> > > Perhaps I have misjudged what I see on the OLC. How many retrieves have you had in the
> > > last two or three years? How does your planning and flying differ from the MG guys? My
> > > planning and flying did not change much when I got a motorglider, for example.
> > >
> > > By the way, "motorglider guys" do not all have the same goals, priorities, and skills:
> > > some soar cautiously and very rarely use the motor inflight; others push hard, and use the
> > > motor much more frequently.
> > > --
> > > Eric Greenwell - USA
> > > - "A Guide to Self-launching Sailplane Operation"
> > > https://sites.google.com/site/motorgliders/publications
> > Eric, I have had retrieves during the past few years and yes I will have more in the future. Yes, us purist do plan our flights accordingly and different from the MG guys and gals, we cannot make as many mistakes and therefore must optimize every opportunity. Simply stated and understood is the fact that we do not have that get home free pass hanging around our necks. What you and others have failed to acknowledge is the fact that purist flights are much more demanding and require mush better planning and execution that motor glider flights, we simply do not get a second chance.
> > You asked the question, 'How does my flight planning differ from MG flights", simple reply is that I do not have a get me out of this jam button to make me look like a hero! I think that your flights and planning differed more than you realize when you got a MG, I look at this guy in Florida that is flying some type of Pippencrap? and takes off from Boca and motors out for a while and then tries gliding only to start the motor back up to get home and scores his points on OLC and I just shake my head and laugh! Even "The Bum", would laugh at that scenario.
> > what amuses me is the fact that many MG guys and probably including yourself think that there is no difference between the purist flight and the saved by the start button switch flight. Do you think that I realize that there is a convenience of having a self launch, why heck yes, I have no problem with self launch, finding old guys like myself and my old Pawnee are like the flip phone, hardly can find one anymore.
> > So, what and how should the purist flight be scored differently than the MG flight? The purist flight should be given extra OLC points because of the void of the start button or the as I call it the beam me up Scotty button.
> > I hope that I have answered your questions regarding Purist flights vs MG flights. Take care and I will pray that your Solo engine continues to run. Old Bob, The Purist

Re: It Gets Worse

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From: own...@thegreenwells.netto (Eric Greenwell)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.soaring
Subject: Re: It Gets Worse
Date: Mon, 2 May 2022 06:36:17 -0700
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 by: Eric Greenwell - Mon, 2 May 2022 13:36 UTC

On 5/1/2022 11:05 PM, youngbl...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Sunday, May 1, 2022 at 11:17:09 PM UTC-4, Ramy wrote:
>> Bob, I have a solution. A motorglider which can only use the engine to launch. Once the engine is shut down, it can no longer restarted until landing. What do you think? I guess the motorgliders can still landout in an airstrip and relaunch, so should we tweak it so the engine can not be restarted again the same day?
>>
>> Ramy (just trying to help)
> Ramy,I would love to have that kill switch on Motorgliders, one and done! The engine electronic ignition could be programmed to shut down after the initial launch and not start again until the landing sensor has been activated after the landing, what a great idea. What about the idea of if you start your sustainer you get no points on OLC for the day, and if you have a sustainer or self launch you are actually penalized for your flight.

In the olden days, motorgliders were not allowed apply for most SSA state records unless
the motor was disabled after the launch. There was a motorglider class without that
restriction. A few years ago, that restriction was removed, and the motorglider class was
frozen - more record applications accepted. I don't recall the reasons for the changes.

A motorglider does make it more convenient to pursue records, but so do some other things:
money to buy the best glider, no job commitment so you can fly anytime, and an engaging
personality to attract a crew. and a determination to record seeking. Anyone of those is
at least as valuable as the convenience of a motorglider when perusing state records.

> On another note, I have stated in the past that I do understand the self launch aspect of this motorglider segment, who knows, maybe one day Old Bob may have a self launch, but not with one of the Solo engines that seems to have a lifespan of less than 200 hours, what a bargain! What about a carbon tax on motorgliders, make these MG pilots pay for pollution, a special environmental fund.

200 engine hours is a very long time for a motorglider. With typical 5-10 minute taxi and
launch times, that's 1200-2400 flights. It took me 26 years to put 200 hours on my ASH26E
engine (4000+ flight hours). And, it's bizarre to talk of a carbon tax for motorgliders,
since towplanes use about 4 times the fuel for the same launch.

Good News! There is a good solution both the engine life and carbon issues: electric
self-launchers! But beware the electrophobes (you know who they are)...

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Subject: Re: It Gets Worse
Date: Mon, 2 May 2022 06:49:56 -0700
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 by: Eric Greenwell - Mon, 2 May 2022 13:49 UTC

On 5/2/2022 6:36 AM, Eric Greenwell wrote:

> A few years ago, that restriction was removed, and the motorglider class was
> frozen - more record applications accepted. I don't recall the reasons for the changes.

That should be " - NO more record applications accepted".

--
Eric Greenwell - USA
- "A Guide to Self-launching Sailplane Operation"
https://sites.google.com/site/motorgliders/publications

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 by: youngbl...@gmail.com - Mon, 2 May 2022 14:50 UTC

On Monday, May 2, 2022 at 9:50:01 AM UTC-4, Eric Greenwell wrote:
> On 5/2/2022 6:36 AM, Eric Greenwell wrote:
>
> > A few years ago, that restriction was removed, and the motorglider class was
> > frozen - more record applications accepted. I don't recall the reasons for the changes.
> That should be " - NO more record applications accepted".
> --
> Eric Greenwell - USA
> - "A Guide to Self-launching Sailplane Operation"
> https://sites.google.com/site/motorgliders/publications

Eric, you are making progress, not only does the motorglider make it more convenient to make certain flights and they do not have to be state records, but flights that require the purist to take a different approach to completing a goal flight or record flights, or even an enjoyable weekend flight compared to purist flight. As far as the restrictions I do not think the restrictions are necessary, but I would like to see a separate motorglider class for scoring purposes. You must admit that a bit higher wing loading makes a difference and is seldom a negative factor. I made reference in the initial start of this thread that the pure glider pilot plans differently, most likely flies differently and therefore making the purist flight a higher risk factor vs the motorglider. Last week three flights were made on the 26th here in Florida and two of the flights were completed with motorgliders, the other a purist flight, you tell me which one of those flights had the higher risk factor, a higher failure factor, a greater land out factor, and a different approach toward accomplishing the flight? I will say the same about the flight that Evan had last week up on the ridge, or the great flights that Ramy and many others have in pure gliders vs motorgliders. This is justification for a different scoring class. Old Bob, The Purist

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server_pubkey.txt

rocksolid light 0.9.7
clearnet tor