Rocksolid Light

Welcome to novaBBS (click a section below)

mail  files  register  newsreader  groups  login

Message-ID:  

Victory or defeat!


tech / rec.aviation.soaring / Re: It Gets Worse

SubjectAuthor
* It Gets Worseyoungbl...@gmail.com
+- Re: It Gets WorseEric Greenwell
`* Re: It Gets Worsejfitch
 +* Re: It Gets Worseyoungbl...@gmail.com
 |`* Re: It Gets WorseEric Greenwell
 | `* Re: It Gets Worseyoungbl...@gmail.com
 |  +- Re: It Gets Worse2G
 |  `* Re: It Gets WorseEric Greenwell
 |   `* Re: It Gets Worseyoungbl...@gmail.com
 |    `* Re: It Gets WorseEric Greenwell
 |     `* Re: It Gets Worseyoungbl...@gmail.com
 |      +- Re: It Gets WorseEric Greenwell
 |      +* Re: It Gets Worse2G
 |      |`* Re: It Gets Worseyoungbl...@gmail.com
 |      | +* Re: It Gets WorseJay Campbell
 |      | |`* Re: It Gets Worsejohn firth
 |      | | `- Re: It Gets Worse2G
 |      | `- Re: It Gets Worse2G
 |      +* Re: It Gets WorseRamy
 |      |+- Re: It Gets Worse2G
 |      |+- Re: It Gets WorseEric Greenwell
 |      |+* Re: It Gets Worseyoungbl...@gmail.com
 |      ||+* Re: It Gets WorseEric Greenwell
 |      |||+* Re: It Gets WorseEric Greenwell
 |      ||||`* Re: It Gets Worseyoungbl...@gmail.com
 |      |||| `- Re: It Gets WorseEric Greenwell
 |      |||`* Re: It Gets WorseDan Marotta
 |      ||| +* Re: It Gets WorseBob W.
 |      ||| |+- Re: It Gets WorseDan Marotta
 |      ||| |`* Re: It Gets WorseEric Greenwell
 |      ||| | `- Re: It Gets WorseDan Marotta
 |      ||| `* Re: It Gets WorseEric Greenwell
 |      |||  `* Re: It Gets WorseMichael N.
 |      |||   +* Re: It Gets WorseMichael N.
 |      |||   |`* Re: It Gets Worseyoungbl...@gmail.com
 |      |||   | `* Re: It Gets WorseEric Greenwell
 |      |||   |  +* Re: It Gets Worseyoungbl...@gmail.com
 |      |||   |  |`- Re: It Gets Worse2G
 |      |||   |  `- Re: It Gets WorseMichael N.
 |      |||   `- Re: It Gets Worse2G
 |      ||`* Re: It Gets WorseDan Marotta
 |      || `* Re: It Gets Worse2G
 |      ||  `- Re: It Gets WorseRR
 |      |`* Re: It Gets Worsekinsell
 |      | `- Re: It Gets WorseRamy
 |      `* Re: It Gets Worsejfitch
 |       +* Re: It Gets WorseRamy
 |       |+- Re: It Gets WorseEric Greenwell
 |       |+* Re: It Gets WorseJ6 aka Airport Bum
 |       ||`* Re: It Gets WorseNicholas Kennedy
 |       || +* Re: It Gets WorseDarren Braun
 |       || |`* Re: It Gets WorseEric Greenwell
 |       || | +- Re: It Gets WorseDarren Braun
 |       || | `* Re: It Gets WorseDan Marotta
 |       || |  `- Re: It Gets WorseEric Greenwell
 |       || +* Re: It Gets WorseEric Greenwell
 |       || |+- Re: It Gets WorseEric Greenwell
 |       || |`- Re: It Gets WorseDan Marotta
 |       || +- Re: It Gets WorseDoug Levy
 |       || `* Re: It Gets WorseJ6 aka Airport Bum
 |       ||  +* Re: It Gets WorseDan Marotta
 |       ||  |`* Re: It Gets Worseyoungbl...@gmail.com
 |       ||  | `* Re: It Gets WorseDan Marotta
 |       ||  |  `* Re: It Gets Worsebpattonsoa@yahoo.com
 |       ||  |   `- Re: It Gets Worseyoungbl...@gmail.com
 |       ||  `* Re: It Gets Worseyoungbl...@gmail.com
 |       ||   `* Re: It Gets WorseEric Greenwell
 |       ||    `* Re: It Gets Worseyoungbl...@gmail.com
 |       ||     +* Re: It Gets WorseEric Greenwell
 |       ||     |`- Re: It Gets WorseMark Mocho
 |       ||     `* Re: It Gets Worsejfitch
 |       ||      `* Re: It Gets Worseyoungbl...@gmail.com
 |       ||       +* Re: It Gets WorseRamy
 |       ||       |`- Re: It Gets WorseEric Greenwell
 |       ||       +* Re: It Gets Worsejfitch
 |       ||       |+- Re: It Gets WorseMark Mocho
 |       ||       |+- Re: It Gets Worsejfitch
 |       ||       |+- Re: It Gets Worse2G
 |       ||       |+- Re: It Gets Worsewaltco...@aol.com
 |       ||       |+- Re: It Gets WorseMark Mocho
 |       ||       |+- Re: It Gets Worse2G
 |       ||       |+- Re: It Gets Worse2G
 |       ||       |+- Re: It Gets Worserichard wilkening
 |       ||       |+- Re: It Gets Worse2G
 |       ||       |+- Re: It Gets Worsejfitch
 |       ||       |+- Re: It Gets WorseMark Mocho
 |       ||       |+- Re: It Gets WorseTom Des
 |       ||       |+- Re: It Gets WorseMark Mocho
 |       ||       |+- Re: It Gets Worse2G
 |       ||       |+- Re: It Gets Worsejfitch
 |       ||       |+- Re: It Gets WorseRamy
 |       ||       |`* Re: It Gets WorseR
 |       ||       | `* Re: It Gets WorseEric Greenwell
 |       ||       |  `* Re: It Gets WorseRamy
 |       ||       |   +- Re: It Gets WorseMark Mocho
 |       ||       |   +- Re: It Gets WorseMark Mocho
 |       ||       |   +- Re: It Gets WorseDan Marotta
 |       ||       |   +- Re: It Gets Worse2G
 |       ||       |   `- Re: It Gets Worse2G
 |       ||       +- Re: It Gets Worseyoungbl...@gmail.com
 |       ||       +- Re: It Gets Worseyoungbl...@gmail.com
 |       ||       +- Re: It Gets Worseyoungbl...@gmail.com
 |       ||       +* Re: It Gets Worseyoungbl...@gmail.com
 |       ||       +- Re: It Gets Worseyoungbl...@gmail.com
 |       ||       `- Re: It Gets Worseyoungbl...@gmail.com
 |       |`* Re: It Gets WorseDennis
 |       `* Re: It Gets Worseyoungbl...@gmail.com
 `* Re: It Gets Worseyoungbl...@gmail.com

Pages:123456
Re: It Gets Worse

<07bd5f26-5cc7-4b39-b932-669106cc60f5n@googlegroups.com>

 copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/tech/article-flat.php?id=26830&group=rec.aviation.soaring#26830

 copy link   Newsgroups: rec.aviation.soaring
X-Received: by 2002:a05:620a:31a2:b0:6a0:1d82:8907 with SMTP id bi34-20020a05620a31a200b006a01d828907mr21436599qkb.408.1652322048754;
Wed, 11 May 2022 19:20:48 -0700 (PDT)
X-Received: by 2002:a81:1409:0:b0:2f7:7423:43b with SMTP id
9-20020a811409000000b002f77423043bmr28163690ywu.401.1652322048473; Wed, 11
May 2022 19:20:48 -0700 (PDT)
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!weretis.net!feeder6.news.weretis.net!usenet.blueworldhosting.com!feed1.usenet.blueworldhosting.com!peer03.iad!feed-me.highwinds-media.com!news.highwinds-media.com!news-out.google.com!nntp.google.com!postnews.google.com!google-groups.googlegroups.com!not-for-mail
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.soaring
Date: Wed, 11 May 2022 19:20:48 -0700 (PDT)
In-Reply-To: <cfa5d3af-2d06-4c01-a12b-6a3dfcd9b7bcn@googlegroups.com>
Injection-Info: google-groups.googlegroups.com; posting-host=23.128.32.100; posting-account=CT-ANQoAAABIQxC6uYerBUnoKmuMv8eC
NNTP-Posting-Host: 23.128.32.100
References: <1c49b238-4a77-469b-ac62-b0567a70456en@googlegroups.com>
<df7dac0e-e2bd-48dd-a617-bb9bcd346493n@googlegroups.com> <fedc6071-5b66-418d-9033-bf8a7c971c11n@googlegroups.com>
<t4grcu$13id$1@gioia.aioe.org> <b18ae9aa-cc54-48a7-a580-0401032fca39n@googlegroups.com>
<t4k7mu$9q3$1@gioia.aioe.org> <bcf4e473-2281-4113-9932-c90083686407n@googlegroups.com>
<t4ki6e$1nbk$1@gioia.aioe.org> <a052eed2-bfee-42d1-8fca-ee492136f782n@googlegroups.com>
<3542f29f-0063-469f-b536-6cdbf93a430cn@googlegroups.com> <5743420b-6074-49a4-b64c-036056e6b135n@googlegroups.com>
<5b472293-7b37-44a3-9b2c-f534beee5a96n@googlegroups.com> <8757cb45-ad15-4e06-976d-6092cf64a036n@googlegroups.com>
<0529eaac-ef2d-46cc-b95f-513807a20038n@googlegroups.com> <0ea3493e-0c3e-45b8-99ef-6d0c7fdb4d5fn@googlegroups.com>
<t4vgpm$too$1@gioia.aioe.org> <c649f463-9fe7-459b-9309-7decb6dbd8c6n@googlegroups.com>
<ec08cfaa-7048-4803-899b-7812fcf515cen@googlegroups.com> <68a8feb7-d757-4acb-bbe6-9436e24a463bn@googlegroups.com>
<ffb1ca37-f55b-4360-bc61-9e7dc302f96cn@googlegroups.com> <119de729-3376-474c-bc90-c6306a16059en@googlegroups.com>
<666194b7-3aea-45cc-9610-d3cf088da4can@googlegroups.com> <6266618e-d025-486c-962a-0029e08d1022n@googlegroups.com>
<702c7672-6222-4765-8bb2-cf2bca9ea732n@googlegroups.com> <1dd546a2-d1df-4d95-ba0c-c1d9dd6e0f06n@googlegroups.com>
<b50ef590-fead-4099-b9fe-ffed470051ecn@googlegroups.com> <cfa5d3af-2d06-4c01-a12b-6a3dfcd9b7bcn@googlegroups.com>
User-Agent: G2/1.0
MIME-Version: 1.0
Message-ID: <07bd5f26-5cc7-4b39-b932-669106cc60f5n@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: It Gets Worse
From: markmoch...@gmail.com (Mark Mocho)
Injection-Date: Thu, 12 May 2022 02:20:48 +0000
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
X-Received-Bytes: 2604
 by: Mark Mocho - Thu, 12 May 2022 02:20 UTC

> I'm starting to enjoy it...

Said the frog as the water started to get warm......

Re: It Gets Worse

<22a9f1aa-859d-4bef-b61e-7552687442bcn@googlegroups.com>

 copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/tech/article-flat.php?id=26831&group=rec.aviation.soaring#26831

 copy link   Newsgroups: rec.aviation.soaring
X-Received: by 2002:a37:98c4:0:b0:6a0:b47b:2ec6 with SMTP id a187-20020a3798c4000000b006a0b47b2ec6mr11167649qke.730.1652329592487;
Wed, 11 May 2022 21:26:32 -0700 (PDT)
X-Received: by 2002:a25:d289:0:b0:64b:39e0:143d with SMTP id
j131-20020a25d289000000b0064b39e0143dmr5553903ybg.162.1652329592251; Wed, 11
May 2022 21:26:32 -0700 (PDT)
Path: i2pn2.org!rocksolid2!i2pn.org!weretis.net!feeder6.news.weretis.net!usenet.blueworldhosting.com!feed1.usenet.blueworldhosting.com!peer01.iad!feed-me.highwinds-media.com!news.highwinds-media.com!news-out.google.com!nntp.google.com!postnews.google.com!google-groups.googlegroups.com!not-for-mail
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.soaring
Date: Wed, 11 May 2022 21:26:32 -0700 (PDT)
In-Reply-To: <1dd546a2-d1df-4d95-ba0c-c1d9dd6e0f06n@googlegroups.com>
Injection-Info: google-groups.googlegroups.com; posting-host=2600:6c54:5340:1aa4:44c9:1080:f6f7:319;
posting-account=igyo_woAAAAxdxQHjAB2cSS7_KQghTOv
NNTP-Posting-Host: 2600:6c54:5340:1aa4:44c9:1080:f6f7:319
References: <1c49b238-4a77-469b-ac62-b0567a70456en@googlegroups.com>
<df7dac0e-e2bd-48dd-a617-bb9bcd346493n@googlegroups.com> <fedc6071-5b66-418d-9033-bf8a7c971c11n@googlegroups.com>
<t4grcu$13id$1@gioia.aioe.org> <b18ae9aa-cc54-48a7-a580-0401032fca39n@googlegroups.com>
<t4k7mu$9q3$1@gioia.aioe.org> <bcf4e473-2281-4113-9932-c90083686407n@googlegroups.com>
<t4ki6e$1nbk$1@gioia.aioe.org> <a052eed2-bfee-42d1-8fca-ee492136f782n@googlegroups.com>
<3542f29f-0063-469f-b536-6cdbf93a430cn@googlegroups.com> <5743420b-6074-49a4-b64c-036056e6b135n@googlegroups.com>
<5b472293-7b37-44a3-9b2c-f534beee5a96n@googlegroups.com> <8757cb45-ad15-4e06-976d-6092cf64a036n@googlegroups.com>
<0529eaac-ef2d-46cc-b95f-513807a20038n@googlegroups.com> <0ea3493e-0c3e-45b8-99ef-6d0c7fdb4d5fn@googlegroups.com>
<t4vgpm$too$1@gioia.aioe.org> <c649f463-9fe7-459b-9309-7decb6dbd8c6n@googlegroups.com>
<ec08cfaa-7048-4803-899b-7812fcf515cen@googlegroups.com> <68a8feb7-d757-4acb-bbe6-9436e24a463bn@googlegroups.com>
<ffb1ca37-f55b-4360-bc61-9e7dc302f96cn@googlegroups.com> <119de729-3376-474c-bc90-c6306a16059en@googlegroups.com>
<666194b7-3aea-45cc-9610-d3cf088da4can@googlegroups.com> <6266618e-d025-486c-962a-0029e08d1022n@googlegroups.com>
<702c7672-6222-4765-8bb2-cf2bca9ea732n@googlegroups.com> <1dd546a2-d1df-4d95-ba0c-c1d9dd6e0f06n@googlegroups.com>
User-Agent: G2/1.0
MIME-Version: 1.0
Message-ID: <22a9f1aa-859d-4bef-b61e-7552687442bcn@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: It Gets Worse
From: soar2mor...@yahoo.com (2G)
Injection-Date: Thu, 12 May 2022 04:26:32 +0000
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
X-Received-Bytes: 11388
 by: 2G - Thu, 12 May 2022 04:26 UTC

On Wednesday, May 11, 2022 at 5:28:49 PM UTC-7, youngbl...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Wednesday, May 11, 2022 at 12:09:22 PM UTC-4, jfitch wrote:
> > Bob, I made no implications, simply paraphrased what you said directly: that motorgliders were a threat to your revenue. You then go on to complain about the 3 towplanes and engines for them you have had to buy. To the extent that your clientele are motorgliders, they are saving you from that expense and headache. I've asked directly several times, "how much experience do you have in cross country flight in a motorglider?" I've never received an answer, which is an answer in itself. Just tooling around the gliderport for a sightseeing flight doesn't count. It does not force you to make the planning and decisions required of cross country. I'll ask again, expecting no answer: How much experience in a motorglider cross country? How many 300Ks, 500Ks, 1000Ks? Without that, you are forming your opinions on ignorance and faith - which Ambrose Bierce defined as "Belief without evidence in what is told by one who speaks without knowledge, of things without parallel." That pretty well sums up the OP.
> > On Saturday, May 7, 2022 at 1:20:18 PM UTC-7, youngbl...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > On Saturday, May 7, 2022 at 1:55:21 AM UTC-4, jfitch wrote:
> > > > Reread it again. What I said was "but the money ends up in some one other than Bob's pocket". And again, you originally complained about the lack of tow fees charged to motorgliders, not me.
> > > > On Friday, May 6, 2022 at 2:33:36 PM UTC-7, youngbl...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > > > On Friday, May 6, 2022 at 11:29:26 AM UTC-4, jfitch wrote:
> > > > > > Bob,
> > > > > > Reread my response - I was perfectly polite (and calm). You must be confusing me with someone else :). And you were the one that brought up the lost tow fees, not me. In fact, I bought a towplane for our glider operation, after I already had a motorglider and always self launched.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Ramy,
> > > > > > I am aware that Bob is simply trolling for controversy, but he is a bit like a train wreck - hard to look away.
> > > > > > On Thursday, May 5, 2022 at 1:57:52 PM UTC-7, youngbl...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > > > > > On Thursday, May 5, 2022 at 11:10:37 AM UTC-4, jfitch wrote:
> > > > > > > > Eric, myself, and many other MG pilots posting here have extensive cross country experience in both "pure" and motorgliders. I've been flying "pure" gliders since 1968 and motorgliders since 2000. Bob, you have no experience with motorgliders other than watching them from afar. So yes, we continue to ignore your uninformed and ignorant *opinion*. But this post makes clearer, perhaps, the real motivation: tow fees. That is at least rational. A motorglider is not less expensive than paying for tows - rather it costs more than all the tows you are ever likely to get - but the money ends up in some one other than Bob's pocket. And yes, the places I fly all charge a motorglider launch fee to cover the facilities, between $12 and $20 per launch. Tie down, trailer parking, oxygen, etc. are the same for either. Having seen the financials for my home field, a tow doesn't net the FBO $20 after paying for fuel, towplane maintenance, tow pilot, etc. In fact the private tows are a net loser, and are really just provided as a service, subsidized by rides and instruction.
> > > > > > > Mr. Fitch, you need to get a grip on yourself and calm down, you should be more polite when you disagree with someone. For your information I have flown motorgliders both here in the US and abroad. I was introduced to motorgliders many years prior to your entry into the category. Secondly I do not profit from the towplane, I have personally bought three Pawnee's for the purpose of starting and developing a club, which I have and we have been very successful, probably the most successful club in the US since our inception to the sport five years ago, prior to that I flew off my own strip. The towplane engine was new in 2021, I paid for it, I paid for all maintenance and repairs, and any other associated expenses to help our club. I could continue with what I have done for soaring, but I will not ask you what you have done. Have a good evening. Old Bob, The Purist
> > > > > > > > On Thursday, May 5, 2022 at 4:34:27 AM UTC-7, youngbl...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > > > > > > > On Wednesday, May 4, 2022 at 11:37:32 PM UTC-4, Eric Greenwell wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > On 5/4/2022 4:27 PM, youngbl...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > 's getting better!
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > No Bum, keep it going, some of the mg comments have been funnier than Saturday Night Live with Eddie Murphy. I will make one comment on the MG guys remarks, your included, why haven't you mg guys been doing longer and better flights? Seems like a no brainer with that teat that you have to suck if you get low! Oh, I almost forgot Mr. Bum, I might just be your tow pilot soon if things work out, please don't be scared. Old Bob, The Purist
> > > > > > > > > > You've been telling us pilots use motorgliders to go farther and faster than they would in
> > > > > > > > > > a "pure" glider, and how they plan and fly so differently than the "pure" glider pilots.
> > > > > > > > > > But now it seems you've noticed that's not true, and are wondering why. I'm glad you've
> > > > > > > > > > finally realized the two groups of pilots are not nearly as different as you thought. If
> > > > > > > > > > you want to meet pilots that really do plan and fly differently from each other, talk to
> > > > > > > > > > 1-26 pilots and Nimbus 3 pilots!
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Once again: Most pilots buy a motorglider for convenience, not speed and distance. You
> > > > > > > > > > know, getting launched where there aren't any towplanes, avoiding that hour-long wait in
> > > > > > > > > > the towline, reliably getting home on time, that kind of thing. Convenience, Bob,
> > > > > > > > > > Convenience!
> > > > > > > > > > --
> > > > > > > > > > Eric Greenwell - USA
> > > > > > > > > > - "A Guide to Self-launching Sailplane Operation"
> > > > > > > > > > https://sites.google.com/site/motorgliders/publications
> > > > > > > > > Eric, I have flown with MG pilots, there is more to MG's than convenience, and you still ignore the opinion that there is a difference between the two paradigms. Yes, I do like enlightening you MG and sustainer guys, your skewed justification and lack of acknowledging the differences amuses me, I still laugh! Now at least the sustainer guys contribute to the club when they are towed, 40-60 bucks helps the club with the overall operating expenses. Does you club charge the self launch pilot for use of the field or do they just get in their self launch and depart and go back home for an early dinner and pack their ship away? I think that or club will start charging a field use for self launch gliders, say 15 bucks for each self launch departure, after all we must pay the rent and fuel bill for the tractor that mows the strip. Now I know that , "The Bum", is going to get bent out of shape on this idea, but if he comes to Vero I will pay the fee for his use of the field. Old Bob, The Purist
> > > > > Mr. Fitch, you are the one that needs to re-read your post, you made reference about money going into Bob's pocket, maybe you are forgetting a few things. Old Bob, The Purist
> > > Mr Fitch, your implications speak for themselves. Old Bob, The Purist
> Mr. Fitch, I have never stated as you have implied anything about tow money being a threat to my revenue On May5th I asked the question about motorgliders paying a fee for use of the field, maybe you should go back and do your homework prior to making statements about people that are not true. I will make a bet with you, OK? If I made the remark as you have stated I will take a RAS fine and go directly to the suspension arena for 60 days. If you cannot produce the comment as you described, "A Threat To MY Revenue", then you will go directly to RAS jail for 60 days, deal? Frankly speaking Mr. Fitch, you are delusional. Old Bob, The Purist

Not So Purist Bobby DID NOT answer Jon's simple question: how much cross country time do you have in motorgliders (in the GLIDING mode, NOT touring MGs with the engine running). Since you dodged the question I will interpret that as ZERO.

And you have made it very clear: you see motorgliders as a threat to your revenue.

Tom

Re: It Gets Worse

<a3663d0f-4610-410f-96bc-a9f03a4c02e2n@googlegroups.com>

 copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/tech/article-flat.php?id=26834&group=rec.aviation.soaring#26834

 copy link   Newsgroups: rec.aviation.soaring
X-Received: by 2002:a05:620a:10a8:b0:69f:8b8b:36d9 with SMTP id h8-20020a05620a10a800b0069f8b8b36d9mr2348931qkk.93.1652413760613;
Thu, 12 May 2022 20:49:20 -0700 (PDT)
X-Received: by 2002:a0d:eb56:0:b0:2fb:964d:a659 with SMTP id
u83-20020a0deb56000000b002fb964da659mr3559291ywe.41.1652413760412; Thu, 12
May 2022 20:49:20 -0700 (PDT)
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!aioe.org!news.uzoreto.com!feeder1.cambriumusenet.nl!feed.tweak.nl!209.85.160.216.MISMATCH!news-out.google.com!nntp.google.com!postnews.google.com!google-groups.googlegroups.com!not-for-mail
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.soaring
Date: Thu, 12 May 2022 20:49:20 -0700 (PDT)
In-Reply-To: <1dd546a2-d1df-4d95-ba0c-c1d9dd6e0f06n@googlegroups.com>
Injection-Info: google-groups.googlegroups.com; posting-host=23.90.90.217; posting-account=iAM2TQoAAADhu0gdPRPBkv6mfgKgEaUm
NNTP-Posting-Host: 23.90.90.217
References: <1c49b238-4a77-469b-ac62-b0567a70456en@googlegroups.com>
<df7dac0e-e2bd-48dd-a617-bb9bcd346493n@googlegroups.com> <fedc6071-5b66-418d-9033-bf8a7c971c11n@googlegroups.com>
<t4grcu$13id$1@gioia.aioe.org> <b18ae9aa-cc54-48a7-a580-0401032fca39n@googlegroups.com>
<t4k7mu$9q3$1@gioia.aioe.org> <bcf4e473-2281-4113-9932-c90083686407n@googlegroups.com>
<t4ki6e$1nbk$1@gioia.aioe.org> <a052eed2-bfee-42d1-8fca-ee492136f782n@googlegroups.com>
<3542f29f-0063-469f-b536-6cdbf93a430cn@googlegroups.com> <5743420b-6074-49a4-b64c-036056e6b135n@googlegroups.com>
<5b472293-7b37-44a3-9b2c-f534beee5a96n@googlegroups.com> <8757cb45-ad15-4e06-976d-6092cf64a036n@googlegroups.com>
<0529eaac-ef2d-46cc-b95f-513807a20038n@googlegroups.com> <0ea3493e-0c3e-45b8-99ef-6d0c7fdb4d5fn@googlegroups.com>
<t4vgpm$too$1@gioia.aioe.org> <c649f463-9fe7-459b-9309-7decb6dbd8c6n@googlegroups.com>
<ec08cfaa-7048-4803-899b-7812fcf515cen@googlegroups.com> <68a8feb7-d757-4acb-bbe6-9436e24a463bn@googlegroups.com>
<ffb1ca37-f55b-4360-bc61-9e7dc302f96cn@googlegroups.com> <119de729-3376-474c-bc90-c6306a16059en@googlegroups.com>
<666194b7-3aea-45cc-9610-d3cf088da4can@googlegroups.com> <6266618e-d025-486c-962a-0029e08d1022n@googlegroups.com>
<702c7672-6222-4765-8bb2-cf2bca9ea732n@googlegroups.com> <1dd546a2-d1df-4d95-ba0c-c1d9dd6e0f06n@googlegroups.com>
User-Agent: G2/1.0
MIME-Version: 1.0
Message-ID: <a3663d0f-4610-410f-96bc-a9f03a4c02e2n@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: It Gets Worse
From: jfi...@flash.net (jfitch)
Injection-Date: Fri, 13 May 2022 03:49:20 +0000
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
 by: jfitch - Fri, 13 May 2022 03:49 UTC

Bob, you are starting to hyperventilate a bit. This is a direct cut and paste from your May 5 post:

"Now at least the sustainer guys contribute to the club when they are towed, 40-60 bucks helps the club with the overall operating expenses."

How else is one to interpret that statement, but as a threat to revenue? If not that, what did you mean by it? I already said I contribute plenty to the local operations, which charge between $12 and $20 for a motorglider launch which is likely as much or more than the profit from a tow (and discounting the tow plane I bought). So have a good time in jail for 60 days.

I'm having a hard time understanding your motivation for posting this. You come to RAS, not known as the most civil of places, disparaging and insulting a large class of pilots as being unskilled, insecure, not Real Men, Push-the-Button to get out of trouble, can't really fly cross country, etc., etc., statements clearly designed to provoke and inflame. Then when the reception is a little hot, you get your panties in a twist and complain about the temperature. If you don't like the heat, keep your thoughts to yourself, better still get some experience flying cross country in a motorglider so we can have an intelligent conversation about the subject. You are like a blind man trying to critique the Mono Lisa.
On Wednesday, May 11, 2022 at 5:28:49 PM UTC-7, youngbl...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Wednesday, May 11, 2022 at 12:09:22 PM UTC-4, jfitch wrote:
> > Bob, I made no implications, simply paraphrased what you said directly: that motorgliders were a threat to your revenue. You then go on to complain about the 3 towplanes and engines for them you have had to buy. To the extent that your clientele are motorgliders, they are saving you from that expense and headache. I've asked directly several times, "how much experience do you have in cross country flight in a motorglider?" I've never received an answer, which is an answer in itself. Just tooling around the gliderport for a sightseeing flight doesn't count. It does not force you to make the planning and decisions required of cross country. I'll ask again, expecting no answer: How much experience in a motorglider cross country? How many 300Ks, 500Ks, 1000Ks? Without that, you are forming your opinions on ignorance and faith - which Ambrose Bierce defined as "Belief without evidence in what is told by one who speaks without knowledge, of things without parallel." That pretty well sums up the OP.
> > On Saturday, May 7, 2022 at 1:20:18 PM UTC-7, youngbl...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > On Saturday, May 7, 2022 at 1:55:21 AM UTC-4, jfitch wrote:
> > > > Reread it again. What I said was "but the money ends up in some one other than Bob's pocket". And again, you originally complained about the lack of tow fees charged to motorgliders, not me.
> > > > On Friday, May 6, 2022 at 2:33:36 PM UTC-7, youngbl...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > > > On Friday, May 6, 2022 at 11:29:26 AM UTC-4, jfitch wrote:
> > > > > > Bob,
> > > > > > Reread my response - I was perfectly polite (and calm). You must be confusing me with someone else :). And you were the one that brought up the lost tow fees, not me. In fact, I bought a towplane for our glider operation, after I already had a motorglider and always self launched.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Ramy,
> > > > > > I am aware that Bob is simply trolling for controversy, but he is a bit like a train wreck - hard to look away.
> > > > > > On Thursday, May 5, 2022 at 1:57:52 PM UTC-7, youngbl...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > > > > > On Thursday, May 5, 2022 at 11:10:37 AM UTC-4, jfitch wrote:
> > > > > > > > Eric, myself, and many other MG pilots posting here have extensive cross country experience in both "pure" and motorgliders. I've been flying "pure" gliders since 1968 and motorgliders since 2000. Bob, you have no experience with motorgliders other than watching them from afar. So yes, we continue to ignore your uninformed and ignorant *opinion*. But this post makes clearer, perhaps, the real motivation: tow fees. That is at least rational. A motorglider is not less expensive than paying for tows - rather it costs more than all the tows you are ever likely to get - but the money ends up in some one other than Bob's pocket. And yes, the places I fly all charge a motorglider launch fee to cover the facilities, between $12 and $20 per launch. Tie down, trailer parking, oxygen, etc. are the same for either. Having seen the financials for my home field, a tow doesn't net the FBO $20 after paying for fuel, towplane maintenance, tow pilot, etc. In fact the private tows are a net loser, and are really just provided as a service, subsidized by rides and instruction.
> > > > > > > Mr. Fitch, you need to get a grip on yourself and calm down, you should be more polite when you disagree with someone. For your information I have flown motorgliders both here in the US and abroad. I was introduced to motorgliders many years prior to your entry into the category. Secondly I do not profit from the towplane, I have personally bought three Pawnee's for the purpose of starting and developing a club, which I have and we have been very successful, probably the most successful club in the US since our inception to the sport five years ago, prior to that I flew off my own strip. The towplane engine was new in 2021, I paid for it, I paid for all maintenance and repairs, and any other associated expenses to help our club. I could continue with what I have done for soaring, but I will not ask you what you have done. Have a good evening. Old Bob, The Purist
> > > > > > > > On Thursday, May 5, 2022 at 4:34:27 AM UTC-7, youngbl...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > > > > > > > On Wednesday, May 4, 2022 at 11:37:32 PM UTC-4, Eric Greenwell wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > On 5/4/2022 4:27 PM, youngbl...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > 's getting better!
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > No Bum, keep it going, some of the mg comments have been funnier than Saturday Night Live with Eddie Murphy. I will make one comment on the MG guys remarks, your included, why haven't you mg guys been doing longer and better flights? Seems like a no brainer with that teat that you have to suck if you get low! Oh, I almost forgot Mr. Bum, I might just be your tow pilot soon if things work out, please don't be scared. Old Bob, The Purist
> > > > > > > > > > You've been telling us pilots use motorgliders to go farther and faster than they would in
> > > > > > > > > > a "pure" glider, and how they plan and fly so differently than the "pure" glider pilots.
> > > > > > > > > > But now it seems you've noticed that's not true, and are wondering why. I'm glad you've
> > > > > > > > > > finally realized the two groups of pilots are not nearly as different as you thought. If
> > > > > > > > > > you want to meet pilots that really do plan and fly differently from each other, talk to
> > > > > > > > > > 1-26 pilots and Nimbus 3 pilots!
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Once again: Most pilots buy a motorglider for convenience, not speed and distance. You
> > > > > > > > > > know, getting launched where there aren't any towplanes, avoiding that hour-long wait in
> > > > > > > > > > the towline, reliably getting home on time, that kind of thing. Convenience, Bob,
> > > > > > > > > > Convenience!
> > > > > > > > > > --
> > > > > > > > > > Eric Greenwell - USA
> > > > > > > > > > - "A Guide to Self-launching Sailplane Operation"
> > > > > > > > > > https://sites.google.com/site/motorgliders/publications
> > > > > > > > > Eric, I have flown with MG pilots, there is more to MG's than convenience, and you still ignore the opinion that there is a difference between the two paradigms. Yes, I do like enlightening you MG and sustainer guys, your skewed justification and lack of acknowledging the differences amuses me, I still laugh! Now at least the sustainer guys contribute to the club when they are towed, 40-60 bucks helps the club with the overall operating expenses. Does you club charge the self launch pilot for use of the field or do they just get in their self launch and depart and go back home for an early dinner and pack their ship away? I think that or club will start charging a field use for self launch gliders, say 15 bucks for each self launch departure, after all we must pay the rent and fuel bill for the tractor that mows the strip. Now I know that , "The Bum", is going to get bent out of shape on this idea, but if he comes to Vero I will pay the fee for his use of the field. Old Bob, The Purist
> > > > > Mr. Fitch, you are the one that needs to re-read your post, you made reference about money going into Bob's pocket, maybe you are forgetting a few things. Old Bob, The Purist
> > > Mr Fitch, your implications speak for themselves. Old Bob, The Purist
> Mr. Fitch, I have never stated as you have implied anything about tow money being a threat to my revenue On May5th I asked the question about motorgliders paying a fee for use of the field, maybe you should go back and do your homework prior to making statements about people that are not true. I will make a bet with you, OK? If I made the remark as you have stated I will take a RAS fine and go directly to the suspension arena for 60 days. If you cannot produce the comment as you described, "A Threat To MY Revenue", then you will go directly to RAS jail for 60 days, deal? Frankly speaking Mr. Fitch, you are delusional. Old Bob, The Purist


Click here to read the complete article
Re: It Gets Worse

<457edb95-d762-4879-a8e3-f6bf57813067n@googlegroups.com>

 copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/tech/article-flat.php?id=26835&group=rec.aviation.soaring#26835

 copy link   Newsgroups: rec.aviation.soaring
X-Received: by 2002:a05:622a:1210:b0:2f3:da26:3778 with SMTP id y16-20020a05622a121000b002f3da263778mr2885593qtx.173.1652414658143;
Thu, 12 May 2022 21:04:18 -0700 (PDT)
X-Received: by 2002:a05:6902:1247:b0:649:4ca8:7ba3 with SMTP id
t7-20020a056902124700b006494ca87ba3mr3112351ybu.562.1652414657884; Thu, 12
May 2022 21:04:17 -0700 (PDT)
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!aioe.org!news.uzoreto.com!feeder1.cambriumusenet.nl!feed.tweak.nl!209.85.160.216.MISMATCH!news-out.google.com!nntp.google.com!postnews.google.com!google-groups.googlegroups.com!not-for-mail
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.soaring
Date: Thu, 12 May 2022 21:04:17 -0700 (PDT)
In-Reply-To: <a3663d0f-4610-410f-96bc-a9f03a4c02e2n@googlegroups.com>
Injection-Info: google-groups.googlegroups.com; posting-host=2601:644:8f00:b90:29cc:3788:164b:ff30;
posting-account=1L2iBgoAAAADfcXUnSNqdaSlc029AwXq
NNTP-Posting-Host: 2601:644:8f00:b90:29cc:3788:164b:ff30
References: <1c49b238-4a77-469b-ac62-b0567a70456en@googlegroups.com>
<df7dac0e-e2bd-48dd-a617-bb9bcd346493n@googlegroups.com> <fedc6071-5b66-418d-9033-bf8a7c971c11n@googlegroups.com>
<t4grcu$13id$1@gioia.aioe.org> <b18ae9aa-cc54-48a7-a580-0401032fca39n@googlegroups.com>
<t4k7mu$9q3$1@gioia.aioe.org> <bcf4e473-2281-4113-9932-c90083686407n@googlegroups.com>
<t4ki6e$1nbk$1@gioia.aioe.org> <a052eed2-bfee-42d1-8fca-ee492136f782n@googlegroups.com>
<3542f29f-0063-469f-b536-6cdbf93a430cn@googlegroups.com> <5743420b-6074-49a4-b64c-036056e6b135n@googlegroups.com>
<5b472293-7b37-44a3-9b2c-f534beee5a96n@googlegroups.com> <8757cb45-ad15-4e06-976d-6092cf64a036n@googlegroups.com>
<0529eaac-ef2d-46cc-b95f-513807a20038n@googlegroups.com> <0ea3493e-0c3e-45b8-99ef-6d0c7fdb4d5fn@googlegroups.com>
<t4vgpm$too$1@gioia.aioe.org> <c649f463-9fe7-459b-9309-7decb6dbd8c6n@googlegroups.com>
<ec08cfaa-7048-4803-899b-7812fcf515cen@googlegroups.com> <68a8feb7-d757-4acb-bbe6-9436e24a463bn@googlegroups.com>
<ffb1ca37-f55b-4360-bc61-9e7dc302f96cn@googlegroups.com> <119de729-3376-474c-bc90-c6306a16059en@googlegroups.com>
<666194b7-3aea-45cc-9610-d3cf088da4can@googlegroups.com> <6266618e-d025-486c-962a-0029e08d1022n@googlegroups.com>
<702c7672-6222-4765-8bb2-cf2bca9ea732n@googlegroups.com> <1dd546a2-d1df-4d95-ba0c-c1d9dd6e0f06n@googlegroups.com>
<a3663d0f-4610-410f-96bc-a9f03a4c02e2n@googlegroups.com>
User-Agent: G2/1.0
MIME-Version: 1.0
Message-ID: <457edb95-d762-4879-a8e3-f6bf57813067n@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: It Gets Worse
From: ramyyan...@gmail.com (Ramy)
Injection-Date: Fri, 13 May 2022 04:04:18 +0000
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
 by: Ramy - Fri, 13 May 2022 04:04 UTC

I keep refreshing the page. Can’t wait to see Bob’s reply although I bet he is going to be able to avoid jail. A real cliffhanger!

Ramy

On Thursday, May 12, 2022 at 8:49:21 PM UTC-7, jfitch wrote:
> Bob, you are starting to hyperventilate a bit. This is a direct cut and paste from your May 5 post:
> "Now at least the sustainer guys contribute to the club when they are towed, 40-60 bucks helps the club with the overall operating expenses."
> How else is one to interpret that statement, but as a threat to revenue? If not that, what did you mean by it? I already said I contribute plenty to the local operations, which charge between $12 and $20 for a motorglider launch which is likely as much or more than the profit from a tow (and discounting the tow plane I bought). So have a good time in jail for 60 days.
>
> I'm having a hard time understanding your motivation for posting this. You come to RAS, not known as the most civil of places, disparaging and insulting a large class of pilots as being unskilled, insecure, not Real Men, Push-the-Button to get out of trouble, can't really fly cross country, etc., etc., statements clearly designed to provoke and inflame. Then when the reception is a little hot, you get your panties in a twist and complain about the temperature. If you don't like the heat, keep your thoughts to yourself, better still get some experience flying cross country in a motorglider so we can have an intelligent conversation about the subject. You are like a blind man trying to critique the Mono Lisa.
> On Wednesday, May 11, 2022 at 5:28:49 PM UTC-7, youngbl...@gmail.com wrote:
> > On Wednesday, May 11, 2022 at 12:09:22 PM UTC-4, jfitch wrote:
> > > Bob, I made no implications, simply paraphrased what you said directly: that motorgliders were a threat to your revenue. You then go on to complain about the 3 towplanes and engines for them you have had to buy. To the extent that your clientele are motorgliders, they are saving you from that expense and headache. I've asked directly several times, "how much experience do you have in cross country flight in a motorglider?" I've never received an answer, which is an answer in itself. Just tooling around the gliderport for a sightseeing flight doesn't count. It does not force you to make the planning and decisions required of cross country. I'll ask again, expecting no answer: How much experience in a motorglider cross country? How many 300Ks, 500Ks, 1000Ks? Without that, you are forming your opinions on ignorance and faith - which Ambrose Bierce defined as "Belief without evidence in what is told by one who speaks without knowledge, of things without parallel." That pretty well sums up the OP.
> > > On Saturday, May 7, 2022 at 1:20:18 PM UTC-7, youngbl...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > > On Saturday, May 7, 2022 at 1:55:21 AM UTC-4, jfitch wrote:
> > > > > Reread it again. What I said was "but the money ends up in some one other than Bob's pocket". And again, you originally complained about the lack of tow fees charged to motorgliders, not me.
> > > > > On Friday, May 6, 2022 at 2:33:36 PM UTC-7, youngbl...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > > > > On Friday, May 6, 2022 at 11:29:26 AM UTC-4, jfitch wrote:
> > > > > > > Bob,
> > > > > > > Reread my response - I was perfectly polite (and calm). You must be confusing me with someone else :). And you were the one that brought up the lost tow fees, not me. In fact, I bought a towplane for our glider operation, after I already had a motorglider and always self launched.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Ramy,
> > > > > > > I am aware that Bob is simply trolling for controversy, but he is a bit like a train wreck - hard to look away.
> > > > > > > On Thursday, May 5, 2022 at 1:57:52 PM UTC-7, youngbl...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > > > > > > On Thursday, May 5, 2022 at 11:10:37 AM UTC-4, jfitch wrote:
> > > > > > > > > Eric, myself, and many other MG pilots posting here have extensive cross country experience in both "pure" and motorgliders. I've been flying "pure" gliders since 1968 and motorgliders since 2000. Bob, you have no experience with motorgliders other than watching them from afar. So yes, we continue to ignore your uninformed and ignorant *opinion*. But this post makes clearer, perhaps, the real motivation: tow fees. That is at least rational. A motorglider is not less expensive than paying for tows - rather it costs more than all the tows you are ever likely to get - but the money ends up in some one other than Bob's pocket. And yes, the places I fly all charge a motorglider launch fee to cover the facilities, between $12 and $20 per launch. Tie down, trailer parking, oxygen, etc. are the same for either. Having seen the financials for my home field, a tow doesn't net the FBO $20 after paying for fuel, towplane maintenance, tow pilot, etc. In fact the private tows are a net loser, and are really just provided as a service, subsidized by rides and instruction.
> > > > > > > > Mr. Fitch, you need to get a grip on yourself and calm down, you should be more polite when you disagree with someone. For your information I have flown motorgliders both here in the US and abroad. I was introduced to motorgliders many years prior to your entry into the category. Secondly I do not profit from the towplane, I have personally bought three Pawnee's for the purpose of starting and developing a club, which I have and we have been very successful, probably the most successful club in the US since our inception to the sport five years ago, prior to that I flew off my own strip. The towplane engine was new in 2021, I paid for it, I paid for all maintenance and repairs, and any other associated expenses to help our club. I could continue with what I have done for soaring, but I will not ask you what you have done. Have a good evening. Old Bob, The Purist
> > > > > > > > > On Thursday, May 5, 2022 at 4:34:27 AM UTC-7, youngbl...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > On Wednesday, May 4, 2022 at 11:37:32 PM UTC-4, Eric Greenwell wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > > On 5/4/2022 4:27 PM, youngbl...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > > 's getting better!
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > No Bum, keep it going, some of the mg comments have been funnier than Saturday Night Live with Eddie Murphy. I will make one comment on the MG guys remarks, your included, why haven't you mg guys been doing longer and better flights? Seems like a no brainer with that teat that you have to suck if you get low! Oh, I almost forgot Mr. Bum, I might just be your tow pilot soon if things work out, please don't be scared. Old Bob, The Purist
> > > > > > > > > > > You've been telling us pilots use motorgliders to go farther and faster than they would in
> > > > > > > > > > > a "pure" glider, and how they plan and fly so differently than the "pure" glider pilots.
> > > > > > > > > > > But now it seems you've noticed that's not true, and are wondering why. I'm glad you've
> > > > > > > > > > > finally realized the two groups of pilots are not nearly as different as you thought. If
> > > > > > > > > > > you want to meet pilots that really do plan and fly differently from each other, talk to
> > > > > > > > > > > 1-26 pilots and Nimbus 3 pilots!
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Once again: Most pilots buy a motorglider for convenience, not speed and distance. You
> > > > > > > > > > > know, getting launched where there aren't any towplanes, avoiding that hour-long wait in
> > > > > > > > > > > the towline, reliably getting home on time, that kind of thing. Convenience, Bob,
> > > > > > > > > > > Convenience!
> > > > > > > > > > > --
> > > > > > > > > > > Eric Greenwell - USA
> > > > > > > > > > > - "A Guide to Self-launching Sailplane Operation"
> > > > > > > > > > > https://sites.google.com/site/motorgliders/publications
> > > > > > > > > > Eric, I have flown with MG pilots, there is more to MG's than convenience, and you still ignore the opinion that there is a difference between the two paradigms. Yes, I do like enlightening you MG and sustainer guys, your skewed justification and lack of acknowledging the differences amuses me, I still laugh! Now at least the sustainer guys contribute to the club when they are towed, 40-60 bucks helps the club with the overall operating expenses. Does you club charge the self launch pilot for use of the field or do they just get in their self launch and depart and go back home for an early dinner and pack their ship away? I think that or club will start charging a field use for self launch gliders, say 15 bucks for each self launch departure, after all we must pay the rent and fuel bill for the tractor that mows the strip. Now I know that , "The Bum", is going to get bent out of shape on this idea, but if he comes to Vero I will pay the fee for his use of the field. Old Bob, The Purist
> > > > > > Mr. Fitch, you are the one that needs to re-read your post, you made reference about money going into Bob's pocket, maybe you are forgetting a few things. Old Bob, The Purist
> > > > Mr Fitch, your implications speak for themselves. Old Bob, The Purist
> > Mr. Fitch, I have never stated as you have implied anything about tow money being a threat to my revenue On May5th I asked the question about motorgliders paying a fee for use of the field, maybe you should go back and do your homework prior to making statements about people that are not true. I will make a bet with you, OK? If I made the remark as you have stated I will take a RAS fine and go directly to the suspension arena for 60 days. If you cannot produce the comment as you described, "A Threat To MY Revenue", then you will go directly to RAS jail for 60 days, deal? Frankly speaking Mr. Fitch, you are delusional. Old Bob, The Purist


Click here to read the complete article
Re: It Gets Worse

<4615c7fc-ed9d-4781-af63-4075418a579bn@googlegroups.com>

 copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/tech/article-flat.php?id=26836&group=rec.aviation.soaring#26836

 copy link   Newsgroups: rec.aviation.soaring
X-Received: by 2002:a05:6214:23cc:b0:44f:4974:4c1c with SMTP id hr12-20020a05621423cc00b0044f49744c1cmr3918985qvb.116.1652443695283;
Fri, 13 May 2022 05:08:15 -0700 (PDT)
X-Received: by 2002:a25:4506:0:b0:648:cfc2:301d with SMTP id
s6-20020a254506000000b00648cfc2301dmr4380706yba.380.1652443695046; Fri, 13
May 2022 05:08:15 -0700 (PDT)
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!weretis.net!feeder8.news.weretis.net!news.szaf.org!fu-berlin.de!news-out.google.com!nntp.google.com!postnews.google.com!google-groups.googlegroups.com!not-for-mail
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.soaring
Date: Fri, 13 May 2022 05:08:14 -0700 (PDT)
In-Reply-To: <a3663d0f-4610-410f-96bc-a9f03a4c02e2n@googlegroups.com>
Injection-Info: google-groups.googlegroups.com; posting-host=167.88.216.4; posting-account=c9Y9mwoAAAA4FQbB4P7CGwNHwaF5Nv_5
NNTP-Posting-Host: 167.88.216.4
References: <1c49b238-4a77-469b-ac62-b0567a70456en@googlegroups.com>
<df7dac0e-e2bd-48dd-a617-bb9bcd346493n@googlegroups.com> <fedc6071-5b66-418d-9033-bf8a7c971c11n@googlegroups.com>
<t4grcu$13id$1@gioia.aioe.org> <b18ae9aa-cc54-48a7-a580-0401032fca39n@googlegroups.com>
<t4k7mu$9q3$1@gioia.aioe.org> <bcf4e473-2281-4113-9932-c90083686407n@googlegroups.com>
<t4ki6e$1nbk$1@gioia.aioe.org> <a052eed2-bfee-42d1-8fca-ee492136f782n@googlegroups.com>
<3542f29f-0063-469f-b536-6cdbf93a430cn@googlegroups.com> <5743420b-6074-49a4-b64c-036056e6b135n@googlegroups.com>
<5b472293-7b37-44a3-9b2c-f534beee5a96n@googlegroups.com> <8757cb45-ad15-4e06-976d-6092cf64a036n@googlegroups.com>
<0529eaac-ef2d-46cc-b95f-513807a20038n@googlegroups.com> <0ea3493e-0c3e-45b8-99ef-6d0c7fdb4d5fn@googlegroups.com>
<t4vgpm$too$1@gioia.aioe.org> <c649f463-9fe7-459b-9309-7decb6dbd8c6n@googlegroups.com>
<ec08cfaa-7048-4803-899b-7812fcf515cen@googlegroups.com> <68a8feb7-d757-4acb-bbe6-9436e24a463bn@googlegroups.com>
<ffb1ca37-f55b-4360-bc61-9e7dc302f96cn@googlegroups.com> <119de729-3376-474c-bc90-c6306a16059en@googlegroups.com>
<666194b7-3aea-45cc-9610-d3cf088da4can@googlegroups.com> <6266618e-d025-486c-962a-0029e08d1022n@googlegroups.com>
<702c7672-6222-4765-8bb2-cf2bca9ea732n@googlegroups.com> <1dd546a2-d1df-4d95-ba0c-c1d9dd6e0f06n@googlegroups.com>
<a3663d0f-4610-410f-96bc-a9f03a4c02e2n@googlegroups.com>
User-Agent: G2/1.0
MIME-Version: 1.0
Message-ID: <4615c7fc-ed9d-4781-af63-4075418a579bn@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: It Gets Worse
From: youngblo...@gmail.com (youngbl...@gmail.com)
Injection-Date: Fri, 13 May 2022 12:08:15 +0000
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
 by: youngbl...@gmail.com - Fri, 13 May 2022 12:08 UTC

On Thursday, May 12, 2022 at 11:49:21 PM UTC-4, jfitch wrote:
> Bob, you are starting to hyperventilate a bit. This is a direct cut and paste from your May 5 post:
> "Now at least the sustainer guys contribute to the club when they are towed, 40-60 bucks helps the club with the overall operating expenses."
> How else is one to interpret that statement, but as a threat to revenue? If not that, what did you mean by it? I already said I contribute plenty to the local operations, which charge between $12 and $20 for a motorglider launch which is likely as much or more than the profit from a tow (and discounting the tow plane I bought). So have a good time in jail for 60 days.
>
> I'm having a hard time understanding your motivation for posting this. You come to RAS, not known as the most civil of places, disparaging and insulting a large class of pilots as being unskilled, insecure, not Real Men, Push-the-Button to get out of trouble, can't really fly cross country, etc., etc., statements clearly designed to provoke and inflame. Then when the reception is a little hot, you get your panties in a twist and complain about the temperature. If you don't like the heat, keep your thoughts to yourself, better still get some experience flying cross country in a motorglider so we can have an intelligent conversation about the subject. You are like a blind man trying to critique the Mono Lisa.
> On Wednesday, May 11, 2022 at 5:28:49 PM UTC-7, youngbl...@gmail.com wrote:
> > On Wednesday, May 11, 2022 at 12:09:22 PM UTC-4, jfitch wrote:
> > > Bob, I made no implications, simply paraphrased what you said directly: that motorgliders were a threat to your revenue. You then go on to complain about the 3 towplanes and engines for them you have had to buy. To the extent that your clientele are motorgliders, they are saving you from that expense and headache. I've asked directly several times, "how much experience do you have in cross country flight in a motorglider?" I've never received an answer, which is an answer in itself. Just tooling around the gliderport for a sightseeing flight doesn't count. It does not force you to make the planning and decisions required of cross country. I'll ask again, expecting no answer: How much experience in a motorglider cross country? How many 300Ks, 500Ks, 1000Ks? Without that, you are forming your opinions on ignorance and faith - which Ambrose Bierce defined as "Belief without evidence in what is told by one who speaks without knowledge, of things without parallel." That pretty well sums up the OP.
> > > On Saturday, May 7, 2022 at 1:20:18 PM UTC-7, youngbl...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > > On Saturday, May 7, 2022 at 1:55:21 AM UTC-4, jfitch wrote:
> > > > > Reread it again. What I said was "but the money ends up in some one other than Bob's pocket". And again, you originally complained about the lack of tow fees charged to motorgliders, not me.
> > > > > On Friday, May 6, 2022 at 2:33:36 PM UTC-7, youngbl...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > > > > On Friday, May 6, 2022 at 11:29:26 AM UTC-4, jfitch wrote:
> > > > > > > Bob,
> > > > > > > Reread my response - I was perfectly polite (and calm). You must be confusing me with someone else :). And you were the one that brought up the lost tow fees, not me. In fact, I bought a towplane for our glider operation, after I already had a motorglider and always self launched.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Ramy,
> > > > > > > I am aware that Bob is simply trolling for controversy, but he is a bit like a train wreck - hard to look away.
> > > > > > > On Thursday, May 5, 2022 at 1:57:52 PM UTC-7, youngbl...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > > > > > > On Thursday, May 5, 2022 at 11:10:37 AM UTC-4, jfitch wrote:
> > > > > > > > > Eric, myself, and many other MG pilots posting here have extensive cross country experience in both "pure" and motorgliders. I've been flying "pure" gliders since 1968 and motorgliders since 2000. Bob, you have no experience with motorgliders other than watching them from afar. So yes, we continue to ignore your uninformed and ignorant *opinion*. But this post makes clearer, perhaps, the real motivation: tow fees. That is at least rational. A motorglider is not less expensive than paying for tows - rather it costs more than all the tows you are ever likely to get - but the money ends up in some one other than Bob's pocket. And yes, the places I fly all charge a motorglider launch fee to cover the facilities, between $12 and $20 per launch. Tie down, trailer parking, oxygen, etc. are the same for either. Having seen the financials for my home field, a tow doesn't net the FBO $20 after paying for fuel, towplane maintenance, tow pilot, etc. In fact the private tows are a net loser, and are really just provided as a service, subsidized by rides and instruction.
> > > > > > > > Mr. Fitch, you need to get a grip on yourself and calm down, you should be more polite when you disagree with someone. For your information I have flown motorgliders both here in the US and abroad. I was introduced to motorgliders many years prior to your entry into the category. Secondly I do not profit from the towplane, I have personally bought three Pawnee's for the purpose of starting and developing a club, which I have and we have been very successful, probably the most successful club in the US since our inception to the sport five years ago, prior to that I flew off my own strip. The towplane engine was new in 2021, I paid for it, I paid for all maintenance and repairs, and any other associated expenses to help our club. I could continue with what I have done for soaring, but I will not ask you what you have done. Have a good evening. Old Bob, The Purist
> > > > > > > > > On Thursday, May 5, 2022 at 4:34:27 AM UTC-7, youngbl...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > On Wednesday, May 4, 2022 at 11:37:32 PM UTC-4, Eric Greenwell wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > > On 5/4/2022 4:27 PM, youngbl...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > > 's getting better!
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > No Bum, keep it going, some of the mg comments have been funnier than Saturday Night Live with Eddie Murphy. I will make one comment on the MG guys remarks, your included, why haven't you mg guys been doing longer and better flights? Seems like a no brainer with that teat that you have to suck if you get low! Oh, I almost forgot Mr. Bum, I might just be your tow pilot soon if things work out, please don't be scared. Old Bob, The Purist
> > > > > > > > > > > You've been telling us pilots use motorgliders to go farther and faster than they would in
> > > > > > > > > > > a "pure" glider, and how they plan and fly so differently than the "pure" glider pilots.
> > > > > > > > > > > But now it seems you've noticed that's not true, and are wondering why. I'm glad you've
> > > > > > > > > > > finally realized the two groups of pilots are not nearly as different as you thought. If
> > > > > > > > > > > you want to meet pilots that really do plan and fly differently from each other, talk to
> > > > > > > > > > > 1-26 pilots and Nimbus 3 pilots!
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Once again: Most pilots buy a motorglider for convenience, not speed and distance. You
> > > > > > > > > > > know, getting launched where there aren't any towplanes, avoiding that hour-long wait in
> > > > > > > > > > > the towline, reliably getting home on time, that kind of thing. Convenience, Bob,
> > > > > > > > > > > Convenience!
> > > > > > > > > > > --
> > > > > > > > > > > Eric Greenwell - USA
> > > > > > > > > > > - "A Guide to Self-launching Sailplane Operation"
> > > > > > > > > > > https://sites.google.com/site/motorgliders/publications
> > > > > > > > > > Eric, I have flown with MG pilots, there is more to MG's than convenience, and you still ignore the opinion that there is a difference between the two paradigms. Yes, I do like enlightening you MG and sustainer guys, your skewed justification and lack of acknowledging the differences amuses me, I still laugh! Now at least the sustainer guys contribute to the club when they are towed, 40-60 bucks helps the club with the overall operating expenses. Does you club charge the self launch pilot for use of the field or do they just get in their self launch and depart and go back home for an early dinner and pack their ship away? I think that or club will start charging a field use for self launch gliders, say 15 bucks for each self launch departure, after all we must pay the rent and fuel bill for the tractor that mows the strip. Now I know that , "The Bum", is going to get bent out of shape on this idea, but if he comes to Vero I will pay the fee for his use of the field. Old Bob, The Purist
> > > > > > Mr. Fitch, you are the one that needs to re-read your post, you made reference about money going into Bob's pocket, maybe you are forgetting a few things. Old Bob, The Purist
> > > > Mr Fitch, your implications speak for themselves. Old Bob, The Purist
> > Mr. Fitch, I have never stated as you have implied anything about tow money being a threat to my revenue On May5th I asked the question about motorgliders paying a fee for use of the field, maybe you should go back and do your homework prior to making statements about people that are not true. I will make a bet with you, OK? If I made the remark as you have stated I will take a RAS fine and go directly to the suspension arena for 60 days. If you cannot produce the comment as you described, "A Threat To MY Revenue", then you will go directly to RAS jail for 60 days, deal? Frankly speaking Mr. Fitch, you are delusional. Old Bob, The Purist
Mr Fitch, you need to refresh and find where as you stated in the possessive term that the tow revenue was directed toward me. As I have stated, I am not the club, I hold no title with the club, the club is not Bob, as you have implied. Please show me where as you stated that I have said that the loss of the fee was , "A Threat To My Revenue".
Now show me where I made that comment! Do you understand what a possessive noun is?
Ramy, I will await his reply.


Click here to read the complete article
Re: It Gets Worse

<d94b2ba6-22d6-4018-a956-36799a72530bn@googlegroups.com>

 copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/tech/article-flat.php?id=26837&group=rec.aviation.soaring#26837

 copy link   Newsgroups: rec.aviation.soaring
X-Received: by 2002:a05:620a:318e:b0:6a0:99c9:f6ca with SMTP id bi14-20020a05620a318e00b006a099c9f6camr3525337qkb.485.1652447251125;
Fri, 13 May 2022 06:07:31 -0700 (PDT)
X-Received: by 2002:a81:260a:0:b0:2f4:ca82:a42f with SMTP id
m10-20020a81260a000000b002f4ca82a42fmr5630414ywm.149.1652447250895; Fri, 13
May 2022 06:07:30 -0700 (PDT)
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!usenet.blueworldhosting.com!feed1.usenet.blueworldhosting.com!peer02.iad!feed-me.highwinds-media.com!news.highwinds-media.com!news-out.google.com!nntp.google.com!postnews.google.com!google-groups.googlegroups.com!not-for-mail
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.soaring
Date: Fri, 13 May 2022 06:07:30 -0700 (PDT)
In-Reply-To: <4615c7fc-ed9d-4781-af63-4075418a579bn@googlegroups.com>
Injection-Info: google-groups.googlegroups.com; posting-host=71.57.153.154; posting-account=RMWX0AoAAABgAPvM_KBrjGLfErTXnOA7
NNTP-Posting-Host: 71.57.153.154
References: <1c49b238-4a77-469b-ac62-b0567a70456en@googlegroups.com>
<df7dac0e-e2bd-48dd-a617-bb9bcd346493n@googlegroups.com> <fedc6071-5b66-418d-9033-bf8a7c971c11n@googlegroups.com>
<t4grcu$13id$1@gioia.aioe.org> <b18ae9aa-cc54-48a7-a580-0401032fca39n@googlegroups.com>
<t4k7mu$9q3$1@gioia.aioe.org> <bcf4e473-2281-4113-9932-c90083686407n@googlegroups.com>
<t4ki6e$1nbk$1@gioia.aioe.org> <a052eed2-bfee-42d1-8fca-ee492136f782n@googlegroups.com>
<3542f29f-0063-469f-b536-6cdbf93a430cn@googlegroups.com> <5743420b-6074-49a4-b64c-036056e6b135n@googlegroups.com>
<5b472293-7b37-44a3-9b2c-f534beee5a96n@googlegroups.com> <8757cb45-ad15-4e06-976d-6092cf64a036n@googlegroups.com>
<0529eaac-ef2d-46cc-b95f-513807a20038n@googlegroups.com> <0ea3493e-0c3e-45b8-99ef-6d0c7fdb4d5fn@googlegroups.com>
<t4vgpm$too$1@gioia.aioe.org> <c649f463-9fe7-459b-9309-7decb6dbd8c6n@googlegroups.com>
<ec08cfaa-7048-4803-899b-7812fcf515cen@googlegroups.com> <68a8feb7-d757-4acb-bbe6-9436e24a463bn@googlegroups.com>
<ffb1ca37-f55b-4360-bc61-9e7dc302f96cn@googlegroups.com> <119de729-3376-474c-bc90-c6306a16059en@googlegroups.com>
<666194b7-3aea-45cc-9610-d3cf088da4can@googlegroups.com> <6266618e-d025-486c-962a-0029e08d1022n@googlegroups.com>
<702c7672-6222-4765-8bb2-cf2bca9ea732n@googlegroups.com> <1dd546a2-d1df-4d95-ba0c-c1d9dd6e0f06n@googlegroups.com>
<a3663d0f-4610-410f-96bc-a9f03a4c02e2n@googlegroups.com> <4615c7fc-ed9d-4781-af63-4075418a579bn@googlegroups.com>
User-Agent: G2/1.0
MIME-Version: 1.0
Message-ID: <d94b2ba6-22d6-4018-a956-36799a72530bn@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: It Gets Worse
From: hrett...@aol.com (R)
Injection-Date: Fri, 13 May 2022 13:07:31 +0000
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
X-Received-Bytes: 3440
 by: R - Fri, 13 May 2022 13:07 UTC

When you strip away all the hot sauce and postering of this thread, I believe Bob is closer to the truth than the Choir.
No one can deny that the miracle of what we do, soar cross country, is reduce as engines become more the norm.
But, we can all also agree that with an engine possibilities exist that allows us to explore new areas and reduce the risk as we reach further.
We only have to turn around and see the guy who got his Diamond in a 1-26 to realize we're all a bunch of underachievers.

I fail to see how Bob is greedy when he is training a bunch of people.....FOR FREE.
Offering any Club or Commercial Glider Ops. money for use of the facilities to self launch, without them tracking me down, is expected and shows respect. I always preempt by offering to pay before I assemble, use their restrooms, drink their water. Whatever the cost.

R

Re: It Gets Worse

<t5lno6$1agv$1@gioia.aioe.org>

 copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/tech/article-flat.php?id=26839&group=rec.aviation.soaring#26839

 copy link   Newsgroups: rec.aviation.soaring
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!aioe.org!q/aGra0dEg4v69S15xaqMA.user.46.165.242.75.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: own...@thegreenwells.netto (Eric Greenwell)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.soaring
Subject: Re: It Gets Worse
Date: Fri, 13 May 2022 06:51:04 -0700
Organization: Aioe.org NNTP Server
Message-ID: <t5lno6$1agv$1@gioia.aioe.org>
References: <1c49b238-4a77-469b-ac62-b0567a70456en@googlegroups.com>
<8757cb45-ad15-4e06-976d-6092cf64a036n@googlegroups.com>
<0529eaac-ef2d-46cc-b95f-513807a20038n@googlegroups.com>
<0ea3493e-0c3e-45b8-99ef-6d0c7fdb4d5fn@googlegroups.com>
<t4vgpm$too$1@gioia.aioe.org>
<c649f463-9fe7-459b-9309-7decb6dbd8c6n@googlegroups.com>
<ec08cfaa-7048-4803-899b-7812fcf515cen@googlegroups.com>
<68a8feb7-d757-4acb-bbe6-9436e24a463bn@googlegroups.com>
<ffb1ca37-f55b-4360-bc61-9e7dc302f96cn@googlegroups.com>
<119de729-3376-474c-bc90-c6306a16059en@googlegroups.com>
<666194b7-3aea-45cc-9610-d3cf088da4can@googlegroups.com>
<6266618e-d025-486c-962a-0029e08d1022n@googlegroups.com>
<702c7672-6222-4765-8bb2-cf2bca9ea732n@googlegroups.com>
<1dd546a2-d1df-4d95-ba0c-c1d9dd6e0f06n@googlegroups.com>
<a3663d0f-4610-410f-96bc-a9f03a4c02e2n@googlegroups.com>
<4615c7fc-ed9d-4781-af63-4075418a579bn@googlegroups.com>
<d94b2ba6-22d6-4018-a956-36799a72530bn@googlegroups.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Injection-Info: gioia.aioe.org; logging-data="43551"; posting-host="q/aGra0dEg4v69S15xaqMA.user.gioia.aioe.org"; mail-complaints-to="abuse@aioe.org";
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; Win64; x64; rv:91.0) Gecko/20100101
Thunderbird/91.9.0
Content-Language: en-US
X-Notice: Filtered by postfilter v. 0.9.2
 by: Eric Greenwell - Fri, 13 May 2022 13:51 UTC

On 5/13/2022 6:07 AM, R wrote:
> But, we can all also agree that with an engine possibilities exist that allows us to explore new areas and reduce the risk as we reach further.
> We only have to turn around and see the guy who got his Diamond in a 1-26 to realize we're all a bunch of underachievers.

You make the point I've tried to make: How you soar is affected by your equipment (and a
lot of other things). There is a big difference in how a 1-26 pilot plans a flight, and
his decisions in flight, compared to a pilot flying a Nimbus 3. That difference is larger
than than the difference between a pilot flying a ASG29 and a pilot flying a ASG29ES.

And when it comes to OLC scores, something Bob also seems quite concerned about, the
biggest difference is not motored/towed, but where the pilots fly. A ASG29 flying a good
day out of Ely will trounce an ASG29ES flying a good day out of Hibiscus.

If you are retired, you can fly the best days, and do better than the weekend pilots; if
you have an enthusiastic crew, you can fly bigger, better flights (think Henry Combs and
Wally Scott); if you live near a soaring operation, you can fly more and better flights
than the pilot that has to travel hours to get there; if you can get towed instead of
winched, you will also do better; if you are flying a contest your planning and in-flight
decisions will be very different than if you are attempting a record, or a recreational
flight.

--
Eric Greenwell - USA
- "A Guide to Self-launching Sailplane Operation"
https://sites.google.com/site/motorgliders/publications

Re: It Gets Worse

<9846e859-e020-4658-9ec8-5a8f5a89e2den@googlegroups.com>

 copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/tech/article-flat.php?id=26841&group=rec.aviation.soaring#26841

 copy link   Newsgroups: rec.aviation.soaring
X-Received: by 2002:a05:620a:795:b0:69f:d074:6067 with SMTP id 21-20020a05620a079500b0069fd0746067mr4297312qka.527.1652461432090;
Fri, 13 May 2022 10:03:52 -0700 (PDT)
X-Received: by 2002:a25:f84:0:b0:64b:96c3:571 with SMTP id 126-20020a250f84000000b0064b96c30571mr3701296ybp.512.1652461431853;
Fri, 13 May 2022 10:03:51 -0700 (PDT)
Path: i2pn2.org!rocksolid2!i2pn.org!paganini.bofh.team!pasdenom.info!usenet-fr.net!fdn.fr!proxad.net!feeder1-2.proxad.net!209.85.160.216.MISMATCH!news-out.google.com!nntp.google.com!postnews.google.com!google-groups.googlegroups.com!not-for-mail
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.soaring
Date: Fri, 13 May 2022 10:03:51 -0700 (PDT)
In-Reply-To: <t5lno6$1agv$1@gioia.aioe.org>
Injection-Info: google-groups.googlegroups.com; posting-host=2601:644:8f00:b90:ed97:1991:8218:2e52;
posting-account=1L2iBgoAAAADfcXUnSNqdaSlc029AwXq
NNTP-Posting-Host: 2601:644:8f00:b90:ed97:1991:8218:2e52
References: <1c49b238-4a77-469b-ac62-b0567a70456en@googlegroups.com>
<8757cb45-ad15-4e06-976d-6092cf64a036n@googlegroups.com> <0529eaac-ef2d-46cc-b95f-513807a20038n@googlegroups.com>
<0ea3493e-0c3e-45b8-99ef-6d0c7fdb4d5fn@googlegroups.com> <t4vgpm$too$1@gioia.aioe.org>
<c649f463-9fe7-459b-9309-7decb6dbd8c6n@googlegroups.com> <ec08cfaa-7048-4803-899b-7812fcf515cen@googlegroups.com>
<68a8feb7-d757-4acb-bbe6-9436e24a463bn@googlegroups.com> <ffb1ca37-f55b-4360-bc61-9e7dc302f96cn@googlegroups.com>
<119de729-3376-474c-bc90-c6306a16059en@googlegroups.com> <666194b7-3aea-45cc-9610-d3cf088da4can@googlegroups.com>
<6266618e-d025-486c-962a-0029e08d1022n@googlegroups.com> <702c7672-6222-4765-8bb2-cf2bca9ea732n@googlegroups.com>
<1dd546a2-d1df-4d95-ba0c-c1d9dd6e0f06n@googlegroups.com> <a3663d0f-4610-410f-96bc-a9f03a4c02e2n@googlegroups.com>
<4615c7fc-ed9d-4781-af63-4075418a579bn@googlegroups.com> <d94b2ba6-22d6-4018-a956-36799a72530bn@googlegroups.com>
<t5lno6$1agv$1@gioia.aioe.org>
User-Agent: G2/1.0
MIME-Version: 1.0
Message-ID: <9846e859-e020-4658-9ec8-5a8f5a89e2den@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: It Gets Worse
From: ramyyan...@gmail.com (Ramy)
Injection-Date: Fri, 13 May 2022 17:03:52 +0000
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
 by: Ramy - Fri, 13 May 2022 17:03 UTC

At the end I find no correlation between how a pilot flies to the type of glider they fly. The conservative pilot will fly conservatively with or without an engine, and the aggressive cross country pilot will fly the same with or without. The main difference is the time (and hassle) the pure glider pilot will get back home in case of a landout vs the motorglider pilot. To me, this is all part of the adventure.
FWIW, I think those who claim that Old Bob motive is revenue, completely missing the point and misread and misquote him. You can disagree with his claims, as Eric does. I just enjoy the entertainment. BTW I find his OLC comments equally entertaining.

Ramy

On Friday, May 13, 2022 at 6:51:09 AM UTC-7, Eric Greenwell wrote:
> On 5/13/2022 6:07 AM, R wrote:
> > But, we can all also agree that with an engine possibilities exist that allows us to explore new areas and reduce the risk as we reach further.
> > We only have to turn around and see the guy who got his Diamond in a 1-26 to realize we're all a bunch of underachievers.
> You make the point I've tried to make: How you soar is affected by your equipment (and a
> lot of other things). There is a big difference in how a 1-26 pilot plans a flight, and
> his decisions in flight, compared to a pilot flying a Nimbus 3. That difference is larger
> than than the difference between a pilot flying a ASG29 and a pilot flying a ASG29ES.
>
> And when it comes to OLC scores, something Bob also seems quite concerned about, the
> biggest difference is not motored/towed, but where the pilots fly. A ASG29 flying a good
> day out of Ely will trounce an ASG29ES flying a good day out of Hibiscus.
>
> If you are retired, you can fly the best days, and do better than the weekend pilots; if
> you have an enthusiastic crew, you can fly bigger, better flights (think Henry Combs and
> Wally Scott); if you live near a soaring operation, you can fly more and better flights
> than the pilot that has to travel hours to get there; if you can get towed instead of
> winched, you will also do better; if you are flying a contest your planning and in-flight
> decisions will be very different than if you are attempting a record, or a recreational
> flight.
> --
> Eric Greenwell - USA
> - "A Guide to Self-launching Sailplane Operation"
> https://sites.google.com/site/motorgliders/publications

Re: It Gets Worse

<66ae2bd1-9bc8-4552-8230-0999edba80f1n@googlegroups.com>

 copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/tech/article-flat.php?id=26843&group=rec.aviation.soaring#26843

 copy link   Newsgroups: rec.aviation.soaring
X-Received: by 2002:a37:7c8:0:b0:69f:c5f8:85a2 with SMTP id 191-20020a3707c8000000b0069fc5f885a2mr4892071qkh.662.1652468810450;
Fri, 13 May 2022 12:06:50 -0700 (PDT)
X-Received: by 2002:a05:6902:1382:b0:63d:be0c:2e7c with SMTP id
x2-20020a056902138200b0063dbe0c2e7cmr6777133ybu.122.1652468810192; Fri, 13
May 2022 12:06:50 -0700 (PDT)
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!usenet.blueworldhosting.com!feed1.usenet.blueworldhosting.com!peer01.iad!feed-me.highwinds-media.com!news.highwinds-media.com!news-out.google.com!nntp.google.com!postnews.google.com!google-groups.googlegroups.com!not-for-mail
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.soaring
Date: Fri, 13 May 2022 12:06:50 -0700 (PDT)
In-Reply-To: <9846e859-e020-4658-9ec8-5a8f5a89e2den@googlegroups.com>
Injection-Info: google-groups.googlegroups.com; posting-host=23.128.32.100; posting-account=CT-ANQoAAABIQxC6uYerBUnoKmuMv8eC
NNTP-Posting-Host: 23.128.32.100
References: <1c49b238-4a77-469b-ac62-b0567a70456en@googlegroups.com>
<8757cb45-ad15-4e06-976d-6092cf64a036n@googlegroups.com> <0529eaac-ef2d-46cc-b95f-513807a20038n@googlegroups.com>
<0ea3493e-0c3e-45b8-99ef-6d0c7fdb4d5fn@googlegroups.com> <t4vgpm$too$1@gioia.aioe.org>
<c649f463-9fe7-459b-9309-7decb6dbd8c6n@googlegroups.com> <ec08cfaa-7048-4803-899b-7812fcf515cen@googlegroups.com>
<68a8feb7-d757-4acb-bbe6-9436e24a463bn@googlegroups.com> <ffb1ca37-f55b-4360-bc61-9e7dc302f96cn@googlegroups.com>
<119de729-3376-474c-bc90-c6306a16059en@googlegroups.com> <666194b7-3aea-45cc-9610-d3cf088da4can@googlegroups.com>
<6266618e-d025-486c-962a-0029e08d1022n@googlegroups.com> <702c7672-6222-4765-8bb2-cf2bca9ea732n@googlegroups.com>
<1dd546a2-d1df-4d95-ba0c-c1d9dd6e0f06n@googlegroups.com> <a3663d0f-4610-410f-96bc-a9f03a4c02e2n@googlegroups.com>
<4615c7fc-ed9d-4781-af63-4075418a579bn@googlegroups.com> <d94b2ba6-22d6-4018-a956-36799a72530bn@googlegroups.com>
<t5lno6$1agv$1@gioia.aioe.org> <9846e859-e020-4658-9ec8-5a8f5a89e2den@googlegroups.com>
User-Agent: G2/1.0
MIME-Version: 1.0
Message-ID: <66ae2bd1-9bc8-4552-8230-0999edba80f1n@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: It Gets Worse
From: markmoch...@gmail.com (Mark Mocho)
Injection-Date: Fri, 13 May 2022 19:06:50 +0000
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
X-Received-Bytes: 2649
 by: Mark Mocho - Fri, 13 May 2022 19:06 UTC

If revenue is an issue for Old Bob, he might want to consider the number of pilots who are turned off by his snarky attitude towards anyone he feels like antagonizing. Motorglider pilots, women (remember "The Apology?"), OLC pilots and anyone that doesn't just swoon about the "magnificent" Treasure Coast and its XC potential of yards and yards circumnavigating Lake Okeefenokee or whatever. Vero Beach and TCSC never made my bucket list, and if Old Bob is around, it never will.

Re: It Gets Worse

<56b2abba-9af8-44e9-b26e-868ba070b888n@googlegroups.com>

 copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/tech/article-flat.php?id=26845&group=rec.aviation.soaring#26845

 copy link   Newsgroups: rec.aviation.soaring
X-Received: by 2002:a05:622a:1301:b0:2f3:af1d:aa57 with SMTP id v1-20020a05622a130100b002f3af1daa57mr6412112qtk.257.1652475089185;
Fri, 13 May 2022 13:51:29 -0700 (PDT)
X-Received: by 2002:a0d:e851:0:b0:2fe:c953:50aa with SMTP id
r78-20020a0de851000000b002fec95350aamr1555328ywe.38.1652475088991; Fri, 13
May 2022 13:51:28 -0700 (PDT)
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!usenet.blueworldhosting.com!feed1.usenet.blueworldhosting.com!peer01.iad!feed-me.highwinds-media.com!news.highwinds-media.com!news-out.google.com!nntp.google.com!postnews.google.com!google-groups.googlegroups.com!not-for-mail
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.soaring
Date: Fri, 13 May 2022 13:51:28 -0700 (PDT)
In-Reply-To: <a6d52a55-92e3-49a9-a45f-576951db9f44n@googlegroups.com>
Injection-Info: google-groups.googlegroups.com; posting-host=23.128.32.100; posting-account=CT-ANQoAAABIQxC6uYerBUnoKmuMv8eC
NNTP-Posting-Host: 23.128.32.100
References: <1c49b238-4a77-469b-ac62-b0567a70456en@googlegroups.com>
<8757cb45-ad15-4e06-976d-6092cf64a036n@googlegroups.com> <0529eaac-ef2d-46cc-b95f-513807a20038n@googlegroups.com>
<0ea3493e-0c3e-45b8-99ef-6d0c7fdb4d5fn@googlegroups.com> <t4vgpm$too$1@gioia.aioe.org>
<c649f463-9fe7-459b-9309-7decb6dbd8c6n@googlegroups.com> <ec08cfaa-7048-4803-899b-7812fcf515cen@googlegroups.com>
<68a8feb7-d757-4acb-bbe6-9436e24a463bn@googlegroups.com> <ffb1ca37-f55b-4360-bc61-9e7dc302f96cn@googlegroups.com>
<119de729-3376-474c-bc90-c6306a16059en@googlegroups.com> <666194b7-3aea-45cc-9610-d3cf088da4can@googlegroups.com>
<6266618e-d025-486c-962a-0029e08d1022n@googlegroups.com> <702c7672-6222-4765-8bb2-cf2bca9ea732n@googlegroups.com>
<1dd546a2-d1df-4d95-ba0c-c1d9dd6e0f06n@googlegroups.com> <a3663d0f-4610-410f-96bc-a9f03a4c02e2n@googlegroups.com>
<4615c7fc-ed9d-4781-af63-4075418a579bn@googlegroups.com> <d94b2ba6-22d6-4018-a956-36799a72530bn@googlegroups.com>
<t5lno6$1agv$1@gioia.aioe.org> <9846e859-e020-4658-9ec8-5a8f5a89e2den@googlegroups.com>
<66ae2bd1-9bc8-4552-8230-0999edba80f1n@googlegroups.com> <a6d52a55-92e3-49a9-a45f-576951db9f44n@googlegroups.com>
User-Agent: G2/1.0
MIME-Version: 1.0
Message-ID: <56b2abba-9af8-44e9-b26e-868ba070b888n@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: It Gets Worse
From: markmoch...@gmail.com (Mark Mocho)
Injection-Date: Fri, 13 May 2022 20:51:29 +0000
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
X-Received-Bytes: 2445
 by: Mark Mocho - Fri, 13 May 2022 20:51 UTC

I will make sure I have a bar of Dial if you do come this way. Old Bob, The Purist

I thought a Purist would prefer Ivory, as it advertises "99.9% pure soap." But it will be interesting to see what happens if you try it.

Re: It Gets Worse

<fa193f6a-9ade-47f6-802c-f947bbef2e5cn@googlegroups.com>

 copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/tech/article-flat.php?id=26847&group=rec.aviation.soaring#26847

 copy link   Newsgroups: rec.aviation.soaring
X-Received: by 2002:ad4:5cac:0:b0:45a:8e5c:677 with SMTP id q12-20020ad45cac000000b0045a8e5c0677mr6158339qvh.125.1652477478165;
Fri, 13 May 2022 14:31:18 -0700 (PDT)
X-Received: by 2002:a81:e12:0:b0:2fb:93c3:5c58 with SMTP id
18-20020a810e12000000b002fb93c35c58mr8127926ywo.152.1652477477985; Fri, 13
May 2022 14:31:17 -0700 (PDT)
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!usenet.blueworldhosting.com!feed1.usenet.blueworldhosting.com!peer01.iad!feed-me.highwinds-media.com!news.highwinds-media.com!news-out.google.com!nntp.google.com!postnews.google.com!google-groups.googlegroups.com!not-for-mail
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.soaring
Date: Fri, 13 May 2022 14:31:17 -0700 (PDT)
In-Reply-To: <df7dac0e-e2bd-48dd-a617-bb9bcd346493n@googlegroups.com>
Injection-Info: google-groups.googlegroups.com; posting-host=167.88.216.4; posting-account=c9Y9mwoAAAA4FQbB4P7CGwNHwaF5Nv_5
NNTP-Posting-Host: 167.88.216.4
References: <1c49b238-4a77-469b-ac62-b0567a70456en@googlegroups.com> <df7dac0e-e2bd-48dd-a617-bb9bcd346493n@googlegroups.com>
User-Agent: G2/1.0
MIME-Version: 1.0
Message-ID: <fa193f6a-9ade-47f6-802c-f947bbef2e5cn@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: It Gets Worse
From: youngblo...@gmail.com (youngbl...@gmail.com)
Injection-Date: Fri, 13 May 2022 21:31:18 +0000
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
X-Received-Bytes: 3373
 by: youngbl...@gmail.com - Fri, 13 May 2022 21:31 UTC

On Friday, April 29, 2022 at 1:17:02 AM UTC-4, jfitch wrote:
> Bob, you can't stop progress, no matter how hard you try. But it is good to see someone getting along with muskets, spats, dial telephone land lines, wind up watches, lava lamps, 3-on-the-column shifts, and string towed gliders. So my friend, come out here and take a flight - oh wait a minute, you'll need a tow plane and we are fresh out......
> On Thursday, April 28, 2022 at 5:20:21 PM UTC-7, youngbl...@gmail.com wrote:
> > Right when things are somewhat calm and the snowbirds are headed back up north the weather finally gets good and we were able to get a few good glider flights in the books. The motorglider drivers up at Seminole had some nice flights and discovered that the Florida spring had arrived a bit late.
> > Now comes the disturbing news, my fellow glider pilot and purist informed me that he had sold his 27 and was taking delivery of a motorglider. Now this is a good guy that I met back long ago only to realize that we were from the same area in Georgia. now this makes two of my good friends that have gone to the dark side during the past few weeks. I have been pondering what would cause two perfectly good guys to convert and go to the other side, this would be like me a UM guy pulling for the Gators or an Alabama fan pulling for Auburn, it just doesn't happen. I know that both of these fine gentlemen did not drink the same water from the Coosa River.
> > Wow, what is happening, next thing you know my dog will be looking at motorgliders and trying to convince me to get one, I told Eileen to change the dogs medication. So, the best thing about this whole scenario is that I will have to buy two less Christmas cards and save money on the postage.
> > As for me I will keep flying that antique 27 and Eileen will stay with the 24 and hopefully the dog will recover.
> > Enjoy those motorgliders my friends, call me if you need a tow, or come on down to Vero and we will tape those doors shut and go for a flight. Old Bob, The Purist
No word from Mr. Fitch?

Re: It Gets Worse

<t5mkki$e5o$1@dont-email.me>

 copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/tech/article-flat.php?id=26848&group=rec.aviation.soaring#26848

 copy link   Newsgroups: rec.aviation.soaring
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!eternal-september.org!reader02.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: dcmaro...@earthlink.net (Dan Marotta)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.soaring
Subject: Re: It Gets Worse
Date: Fri, 13 May 2022 16:04:00 -0600
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
Lines: 18
Message-ID: <t5mkki$e5o$1@dont-email.me>
References: <1c49b238-4a77-469b-ac62-b0567a70456en@googlegroups.com>
<0529eaac-ef2d-46cc-b95f-513807a20038n@googlegroups.com>
<0ea3493e-0c3e-45b8-99ef-6d0c7fdb4d5fn@googlegroups.com>
<t4vgpm$too$1@gioia.aioe.org>
<c649f463-9fe7-459b-9309-7decb6dbd8c6n@googlegroups.com>
<ec08cfaa-7048-4803-899b-7812fcf515cen@googlegroups.com>
<68a8feb7-d757-4acb-bbe6-9436e24a463bn@googlegroups.com>
<ffb1ca37-f55b-4360-bc61-9e7dc302f96cn@googlegroups.com>
<119de729-3376-474c-bc90-c6306a16059en@googlegroups.com>
<666194b7-3aea-45cc-9610-d3cf088da4can@googlegroups.com>
<6266618e-d025-486c-962a-0029e08d1022n@googlegroups.com>
<702c7672-6222-4765-8bb2-cf2bca9ea732n@googlegroups.com>
<1dd546a2-d1df-4d95-ba0c-c1d9dd6e0f06n@googlegroups.com>
<a3663d0f-4610-410f-96bc-a9f03a4c02e2n@googlegroups.com>
<4615c7fc-ed9d-4781-af63-4075418a579bn@googlegroups.com>
<d94b2ba6-22d6-4018-a956-36799a72530bn@googlegroups.com>
<t5lno6$1agv$1@gioia.aioe.org>
<9846e859-e020-4658-9ec8-5a8f5a89e2den@googlegroups.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Injection-Date: Fri, 13 May 2022 22:04:02 -0000 (UTC)
Injection-Info: reader02.eternal-september.org; posting-host="abc1d388801dc1b97e27fc16c7806a07";
logging-data="14520"; mail-complaints-to="abuse@eternal-september.org"; posting-account="U2FsdGVkX1/kWwVm44dAiDqw8x+qoGmDy8RGYhHjJAk="
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:91.0) Gecko/20100101
Thunderbird/91.8.1
Cancel-Lock: sha1:pVMM1W486zWgYyh8c/RK+zk7RA0=
In-Reply-To: <9846e859-e020-4658-9ec8-5a8f5a89e2den@googlegroups.com>
Content-Language: en-US
 by: Dan Marotta - Fri, 13 May 2022 22:04 UTC

There ya go!

I recall with great pleasure getting home at 0300 after a long retrieve.
More than that was that the buddy who retrieved me left a message for
his wife that he was coming to get me. Oops! It was their anniversary
and that's why he was unable to reach her. She was at the hair dresser...

First time I spoke with her on the phone, I introduced myself as the guy
that ruined her anniversary. She replied that it was her birthday, too!

Thanks Neil!

Dan
5J

On 5/13/22 11:03, Ramy wrote:
> At the end I find no correlation between how a pilot flies to the type of glider they fly. The conservative pilot will fly conservatively with or without an engine, and the aggressive cross country pilot will fly the same with or without. The main difference is the time (and hassle) the pure glider pilot will get back home in case of a landout vs the motorglider pilot. To me, this is all part of the adventure.
> FWIW, I think those who claim that Old Bob motive is revenue, completely missing the point and misread and misquote him. You can disagree with his claims, as Eric does. I just enjoy the entertainment. BTW I find his OLC comments equally entertaining.

Re: It Gets Worse

<43d1118b-f767-4526-84d1-c682b94602den@googlegroups.com>

 copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/tech/article-flat.php?id=26849&group=rec.aviation.soaring#26849

 copy link   Newsgroups: rec.aviation.soaring
X-Received: by 2002:ac8:4e8f:0:b0:2f3:d216:1002 with SMTP id 15-20020ac84e8f000000b002f3d2161002mr6939354qtp.380.1652486698308;
Fri, 13 May 2022 17:04:58 -0700 (PDT)
X-Received: by 2002:a25:d3cd:0:b0:648:6a92:80f9 with SMTP id
e196-20020a25d3cd000000b006486a9280f9mr7297893ybf.300.1652486698138; Fri, 13
May 2022 17:04:58 -0700 (PDT)
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!usenet.blueworldhosting.com!feed1.usenet.blueworldhosting.com!peer01.iad!feed-me.highwinds-media.com!news.highwinds-media.com!news-out.google.com!nntp.google.com!postnews.google.com!google-groups.googlegroups.com!not-for-mail
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.soaring
Date: Fri, 13 May 2022 17:04:57 -0700 (PDT)
In-Reply-To: <a6d52a55-92e3-49a9-a45f-576951db9f44n@googlegroups.com>
Injection-Info: google-groups.googlegroups.com; posting-host=2600:6c54:5340:1aa4:bc58:d5e9:5b44:be4;
posting-account=igyo_woAAAAxdxQHjAB2cSS7_KQghTOv
NNTP-Posting-Host: 2600:6c54:5340:1aa4:bc58:d5e9:5b44:be4
References: <1c49b238-4a77-469b-ac62-b0567a70456en@googlegroups.com>
<8757cb45-ad15-4e06-976d-6092cf64a036n@googlegroups.com> <0529eaac-ef2d-46cc-b95f-513807a20038n@googlegroups.com>
<0ea3493e-0c3e-45b8-99ef-6d0c7fdb4d5fn@googlegroups.com> <t4vgpm$too$1@gioia.aioe.org>
<c649f463-9fe7-459b-9309-7decb6dbd8c6n@googlegroups.com> <ec08cfaa-7048-4803-899b-7812fcf515cen@googlegroups.com>
<68a8feb7-d757-4acb-bbe6-9436e24a463bn@googlegroups.com> <ffb1ca37-f55b-4360-bc61-9e7dc302f96cn@googlegroups.com>
<119de729-3376-474c-bc90-c6306a16059en@googlegroups.com> <666194b7-3aea-45cc-9610-d3cf088da4can@googlegroups.com>
<6266618e-d025-486c-962a-0029e08d1022n@googlegroups.com> <702c7672-6222-4765-8bb2-cf2bca9ea732n@googlegroups.com>
<1dd546a2-d1df-4d95-ba0c-c1d9dd6e0f06n@googlegroups.com> <a3663d0f-4610-410f-96bc-a9f03a4c02e2n@googlegroups.com>
<4615c7fc-ed9d-4781-af63-4075418a579bn@googlegroups.com> <d94b2ba6-22d6-4018-a956-36799a72530bn@googlegroups.com>
<t5lno6$1agv$1@gioia.aioe.org> <9846e859-e020-4658-9ec8-5a8f5a89e2den@googlegroups.com>
<66ae2bd1-9bc8-4552-8230-0999edba80f1n@googlegroups.com> <a6d52a55-92e3-49a9-a45f-576951db9f44n@googlegroups.com>
User-Agent: G2/1.0
MIME-Version: 1.0
Message-ID: <43d1118b-f767-4526-84d1-c682b94602den@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: It Gets Worse
From: soar2mor...@yahoo.com (2G)
Injection-Date: Sat, 14 May 2022 00:04:58 +0000
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
X-Received-Bytes: 3395
 by: 2G - Sat, 14 May 2022 00:04 UTC

On Friday, May 13, 2022 at 12:35:16 PM UTC-7, youngbl...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Friday, May 13, 2022 at 3:06:51 PM UTC-4, Mark Mocho wrote:
> > If revenue is an issue for Old Bob, he might want to consider the number of pilots who are turned off by his snarky attitude towards anyone he feels like antagonizing. Motorglider pilots, women (remember "The Apology?"), OLC pilots and anyone that doesn't just swoon about the "magnificent" Treasure Coast and its XC potential of yards and yards circumnavigating Lake Okeefenokee or whatever. Vero Beach and TCSC never made my bucket list, and if Old Bob is around, it never will.
> Glad that I will not be leaving the light on for you Mark, besides having heard you speak in person I would have to have a bar of soap to wash you mouth out, an old southern tradition when vulgarity spews from a child's mouth. I will make sure I have a bar of Dial if you do come this way. Old Bob, The Purist

That's RICH, Bobby, after all the racist comments you have made that are WELL DESERVING of a mouth washing!

Re: It Gets Worse

<b8436a65-2a3c-429b-babd-614ffebf6bc3n@googlegroups.com>

 copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/tech/article-flat.php?id=26852&group=rec.aviation.soaring#26852

 copy link   Newsgroups: rec.aviation.soaring
X-Received: by 2002:a05:622a:3d3:b0:2f3:ba0b:ee5b with SMTP id k19-20020a05622a03d300b002f3ba0bee5bmr7003239qtx.365.1652492450344;
Fri, 13 May 2022 18:40:50 -0700 (PDT)
X-Received: by 2002:a25:268b:0:b0:649:73d4:d00 with SMTP id
m133-20020a25268b000000b0064973d40d00mr7599089ybm.79.1652492450157; Fri, 13
May 2022 18:40:50 -0700 (PDT)
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!usenet.blueworldhosting.com!feed1.usenet.blueworldhosting.com!peer02.iad!feed-me.highwinds-media.com!news.highwinds-media.com!news-out.google.com!nntp.google.com!postnews.google.com!google-groups.googlegroups.com!not-for-mail
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.soaring
Date: Fri, 13 May 2022 18:40:49 -0700 (PDT)
In-Reply-To: <fa193f6a-9ade-47f6-802c-f947bbef2e5cn@googlegroups.com>
Injection-Info: google-groups.googlegroups.com; posting-host=184.67.129.54; posting-account=iAM2TQoAAADhu0gdPRPBkv6mfgKgEaUm
NNTP-Posting-Host: 184.67.129.54
References: <1c49b238-4a77-469b-ac62-b0567a70456en@googlegroups.com>
<df7dac0e-e2bd-48dd-a617-bb9bcd346493n@googlegroups.com> <fa193f6a-9ade-47f6-802c-f947bbef2e5cn@googlegroups.com>
User-Agent: G2/1.0
MIME-Version: 1.0
Message-ID: <b8436a65-2a3c-429b-babd-614ffebf6bc3n@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: It Gets Worse
From: jfi...@flash.net (jfitch)
Injection-Date: Sat, 14 May 2022 01:40:50 +0000
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
X-Received-Bytes: 5009
 by: jfitch - Sat, 14 May 2022 01:40 UTC

OK Bob, so now we have moved on from soaring and are arguing semantics. I’m on my boat, enroute to Alaska and really don’t have the time and bandwidth to keep this up. Ramy, I never called Bob greedy, and don’t think of him that way. He is however perfectly willing to cast derision and ridicule on a large class of his fellow pilots, repeatedly and without respite or subject knowledge.

The sentence we are apparently arguing the semantics of (on a soaring site) is:

“A motorglider is not less expensive than paying for tows - rather it costs more than all the tows you are ever likely to get - but the money ends up in some one other than Bob's pocket.”

Can you point me to a single word in that sentence which is factually untrue? Surely you do not get a kickback from Schleicher or Schemp or Jonkers for every motorglider they sell? Now metaphorically, the club in that statement - and in Bob’s statement - is Bob’s pocket, or whoever is running the tow service, possessive nouns notwithstanding. Tows cannot contribute to the club or the operation unless the tow fees flow to the club or operation.

This is all of course ridiculous. The ridiculousness started with Bob’s opening post, one of many tiresome ones on this subject. Get over it Bob. We know how you feel. We just don’t feel the same. You aren’t changing anyone’s mind.
On Friday, May 13, 2022 at 2:31:19 PM UTC-7, youngbl...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Friday, April 29, 2022 at 1:17:02 AM UTC-4, jfitch wrote:
> > Bob, you can't stop progress, no matter how hard you try. But it is good to see someone getting along with muskets, spats, dial telephone land lines, wind up watches, lava lamps, 3-on-the-column shifts, and string towed gliders. So my friend, come out here and take a flight - oh wait a minute, you'll need a tow plane and we are fresh out......
> > On Thursday, April 28, 2022 at 5:20:21 PM UTC-7, youngbl...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > Right when things are somewhat calm and the snowbirds are headed back up north the weather finally gets good and we were able to get a few good glider flights in the books. The motorglider drivers up at Seminole had some nice flights and discovered that the Florida spring had arrived a bit late.
> > > Now comes the disturbing news, my fellow glider pilot and purist informed me that he had sold his 27 and was taking delivery of a motorglider. Now this is a good guy that I met back long ago only to realize that we were from the same area in Georgia. now this makes two of my good friends that have gone to the dark side during the past few weeks. I have been pondering what would cause two perfectly good guys to convert and go to the other side, this would be like me a UM guy pulling for the Gators or an Alabama fan pulling for Auburn, it just doesn't happen. I know that both of these fine gentlemen did not drink the same water from the Coosa River.
> > > Wow, what is happening, next thing you know my dog will be looking at motorgliders and trying to convince me to get one, I told Eileen to change the dogs medication. So, the best thing about this whole scenario is that I will have to buy two less Christmas cards and save money on the postage.
> > > As for me I will keep flying that antique 27 and Eileen will stay with the 24 and hopefully the dog will recover.
> > > Enjoy those motorgliders my friends, call me if you need a tow, or come on down to Vero and we will tape those doors shut and go for a flight. Old Bob, The Purist
> No word from Mr. Fitch?

Re: It Gets Worse

<56f39f88-6e37-4bc7-a2fa-6b8b0b4292b2n@googlegroups.com>

 copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/tech/article-flat.php?id=26853&group=rec.aviation.soaring#26853

 copy link   Newsgroups: rec.aviation.soaring
X-Received: by 2002:a05:622a:44b:b0:2f3:f495:386b with SMTP id o11-20020a05622a044b00b002f3f495386bmr7187088qtx.349.1652495343592;
Fri, 13 May 2022 19:29:03 -0700 (PDT)
X-Received: by 2002:a0d:e4c4:0:b0:2fb:97c0:32b2 with SMTP id
n187-20020a0de4c4000000b002fb97c032b2mr8816056ywe.348.1652495343423; Fri, 13
May 2022 19:29:03 -0700 (PDT)
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!usenet.blueworldhosting.com!feed1.usenet.blueworldhosting.com!peer02.iad!feed-me.highwinds-media.com!news.highwinds-media.com!news-out.google.com!nntp.google.com!postnews.google.com!google-groups.googlegroups.com!not-for-mail
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.soaring
Date: Fri, 13 May 2022 19:29:03 -0700 (PDT)
In-Reply-To: <92f08b44-f461-408e-891c-aaafac40829cn@googlegroups.com>
Injection-Info: google-groups.googlegroups.com; posting-host=2600:6c54:5340:1aa4:bc58:d5e9:5b44:be4;
posting-account=igyo_woAAAAxdxQHjAB2cSS7_KQghTOv
NNTP-Posting-Host: 2600:6c54:5340:1aa4:bc58:d5e9:5b44:be4
References: <1c49b238-4a77-469b-ac62-b0567a70456en@googlegroups.com>
<8757cb45-ad15-4e06-976d-6092cf64a036n@googlegroups.com> <0529eaac-ef2d-46cc-b95f-513807a20038n@googlegroups.com>
<0ea3493e-0c3e-45b8-99ef-6d0c7fdb4d5fn@googlegroups.com> <t4vgpm$too$1@gioia.aioe.org>
<c649f463-9fe7-459b-9309-7decb6dbd8c6n@googlegroups.com> <ec08cfaa-7048-4803-899b-7812fcf515cen@googlegroups.com>
<68a8feb7-d757-4acb-bbe6-9436e24a463bn@googlegroups.com> <ffb1ca37-f55b-4360-bc61-9e7dc302f96cn@googlegroups.com>
<119de729-3376-474c-bc90-c6306a16059en@googlegroups.com> <666194b7-3aea-45cc-9610-d3cf088da4can@googlegroups.com>
<6266618e-d025-486c-962a-0029e08d1022n@googlegroups.com> <702c7672-6222-4765-8bb2-cf2bca9ea732n@googlegroups.com>
<1dd546a2-d1df-4d95-ba0c-c1d9dd6e0f06n@googlegroups.com> <a3663d0f-4610-410f-96bc-a9f03a4c02e2n@googlegroups.com>
<4615c7fc-ed9d-4781-af63-4075418a579bn@googlegroups.com> <d94b2ba6-22d6-4018-a956-36799a72530bn@googlegroups.com>
<t5lno6$1agv$1@gioia.aioe.org> <9846e859-e020-4658-9ec8-5a8f5a89e2den@googlegroups.com>
<66ae2bd1-9bc8-4552-8230-0999edba80f1n@googlegroups.com> <a6d52a55-92e3-49a9-a45f-576951db9f44n@googlegroups.com>
<43d1118b-f767-4526-84d1-c682b94602den@googlegroups.com> <92f08b44-f461-408e-891c-aaafac40829cn@googlegroups.com>
User-Agent: G2/1.0
MIME-Version: 1.0
Message-ID: <56f39f88-6e37-4bc7-a2fa-6b8b0b4292b2n@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: It Gets Worse
From: soar2mor...@yahoo.com (2G)
Injection-Date: Sat, 14 May 2022 02:29:03 +0000
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
X-Received-Bytes: 3742
 by: 2G - Sat, 14 May 2022 02:29 UTC

On Friday, May 13, 2022 at 6:23:41 PM UTC-7, youngbl...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Friday, May 13, 2022 at 8:04:59 PM UTC-4, 2G wrote:
> > On Friday, May 13, 2022 at 12:35:16 PM UTC-7, youngbl...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > On Friday, May 13, 2022 at 3:06:51 PM UTC-4, Mark Mocho wrote:
> > > > If revenue is an issue for Old Bob, he might want to consider the number of pilots who are turned off by his snarky attitude towards anyone he feels like antagonizing. Motorglider pilots, women (remember "The Apology?"), OLC pilots and anyone that doesn't just swoon about the "magnificent" Treasure Coast and its XC potential of yards and yards circumnavigating Lake Okeefenokee or whatever. Vero Beach and TCSC never made my bucket list, and if Old Bob is around, it never will.
> > > Glad that I will not be leaving the light on for you Mark, besides having heard you speak in person I would have to have a bar of soap to wash you mouth out, an old southern tradition when vulgarity spews from a child's mouth. I will make sure I have a bar of Dial if you do come this way. Old Bob, The Purist
> > That's RICH, Bobby, after all the racist comments you have made that are WELL DESERVING of a mouth washing!
> And the Choir sings.

Non-sequitur response noted, Bobby.

Re: It Gets Worse

<3f2e5dc3-e662-419c-9dd9-df7e185c2577n@googlegroups.com>

 copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/tech/article-flat.php?id=26857&group=rec.aviation.soaring#26857

 copy link   Newsgroups: rec.aviation.soaring
X-Received: by 2002:a05:622a:1007:b0:2f3:ce52:25cb with SMTP id d7-20020a05622a100700b002f3ce5225cbmr8144890qte.575.1652529691823;
Sat, 14 May 2022 05:01:31 -0700 (PDT)
X-Received: by 2002:a81:1c44:0:b0:2f7:e1f2:c471 with SMTP id
c65-20020a811c44000000b002f7e1f2c471mr10299538ywc.421.1652529691614; Sat, 14
May 2022 05:01:31 -0700 (PDT)
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!usenet.blueworldhosting.com!feed1.usenet.blueworldhosting.com!peer03.iad!feed-me.highwinds-media.com!news.highwinds-media.com!news-out.google.com!nntp.google.com!postnews.google.com!google-groups.googlegroups.com!not-for-mail
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.soaring
Date: Sat, 14 May 2022 05:01:31 -0700 (PDT)
In-Reply-To: <b8436a65-2a3c-429b-babd-614ffebf6bc3n@googlegroups.com>
Injection-Info: google-groups.googlegroups.com; posting-host=167.88.216.4; posting-account=c9Y9mwoAAAA4FQbB4P7CGwNHwaF5Nv_5
NNTP-Posting-Host: 167.88.216.4
References: <1c49b238-4a77-469b-ac62-b0567a70456en@googlegroups.com>
<df7dac0e-e2bd-48dd-a617-bb9bcd346493n@googlegroups.com> <fa193f6a-9ade-47f6-802c-f947bbef2e5cn@googlegroups.com>
<b8436a65-2a3c-429b-babd-614ffebf6bc3n@googlegroups.com>
User-Agent: G2/1.0
MIME-Version: 1.0
Message-ID: <3f2e5dc3-e662-419c-9dd9-df7e185c2577n@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: It Gets Worse
From: youngblo...@gmail.com (youngbl...@gmail.com)
Injection-Date: Sat, 14 May 2022 12:01:31 +0000
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
X-Received-Bytes: 6227
 by: youngbl...@gmail.com - Sat, 14 May 2022 12:01 UTC

On Friday, May 13, 2022 at 9:40:51 PM UTC-4, jfitch wrote:
> OK Bob, so now we have moved on from soaring and are arguing semantics. I’m on my boat, enroute to Alaska and really don’t have the time and bandwidth to keep this up. Ramy, I never called Bob greedy, and don’t think of him that way. He is however perfectly willing to cast derision and ridicule on a large class of his fellow pilots, repeatedly and without respite or subject knowledge.
>
> The sentence we are apparently arguing the semantics of (on a soaring site) is:
>
> “A motorglider is not less expensive than paying for tows - rather it costs more than all the tows you are ever likely to get - but the money ends up in some one other than Bob's pocket.”
>
> Can you point me to a single word in that sentence which is factually untrue? Surely you do not get a kickback from Schleicher or Schemp or Jonkers for every motorglider they sell? Now metaphorically, the club in that statement - and in Bob’s statement - is Bob’s pocket, or whoever is running the tow service, possessive nouns notwithstanding. Tows cannot contribute to the club or the operation unless the tow fees flow to the club or operation.
>
> This is all of course ridiculous. The ridiculousness started with Bob’s opening post, one of many tiresome ones on this subject. Get over it Bob. We know how you feel. We just don’t feel the same. You aren’t changing anyone’s mind.

Mr. Fitch, in all honesty my post are generated as humor, not attempting to change anyone's mind, and I certainly am qualified to cast my own opinions regarding the differences between MG and purist flights. What you and the choir have attempted to do is cast dispersion regarding revenue and my personal agenda. You should be very cognizant of your intentions, it is just your dislike for me that drives your agenda. I have motorglider friends, my very best friend has gone over to the dark side and we tease each other almost daily as he calls me from the sky telling me how much battery life he has remaining after launch and I reply with something like,"You Will Never Be Late For Dinner". Get a grip on things Mr. Fitch, life is too short and a few laughs will go a long way in helping you along the way. As I stated in the last line of the initial thread, Enjoy those motorgliders my friends, call me if you ever neeed a tow, come to Vero and fly. Old Bob, The Purist
> On Friday, May 13, 2022 at 2:31:19 PM UTC-7, youngbl...@gmail.com wrote:
> > On Friday, April 29, 2022 at 1:17:02 AM UTC-4, jfitch wrote:
> > > Bob, you can't stop progress, no matter how hard you try. But it is good to see someone getting along with muskets, spats, dial telephone land lines, wind up watches, lava lamps, 3-on-the-column shifts, and string towed gliders. So my friend, come out here and take a flight - oh wait a minute, you'll need a tow plane and we are fresh out......
> > > On Thursday, April 28, 2022 at 5:20:21 PM UTC-7, youngbl...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > > Right when things are somewhat calm and the snowbirds are headed back up north the weather finally gets good and we were able to get a few good glider flights in the books. The motorglider drivers up at Seminole had some nice flights and discovered that the Florida spring had arrived a bit late.
> > > > Now comes the disturbing news, my fellow glider pilot and purist informed me that he had sold his 27 and was taking delivery of a motorglider. Now this is a good guy that I met back long ago only to realize that we were from the same area in Georgia. now this makes two of my good friends that have gone to the dark side during the past few weeks. I have been pondering what would cause two perfectly good guys to convert and go to the other side, this would be like me a UM guy pulling for the Gators or an Alabama fan pulling for Auburn, it just doesn't happen. I know that both of these fine gentlemen did not drink the same water from the Coosa River.
> > > > Wow, what is happening, next thing you know my dog will be looking at motorgliders and trying to convince me to get one, I told Eileen to change the dogs medication. So, the best thing about this whole scenario is that I will have to buy two less Christmas cards and save money on the postage..
> > > > As for me I will keep flying that antique 27 and Eileen will stay with the 24 and hopefully the dog will recover.
> > > > Enjoy those motorgliders my friends, call me if you need a tow, or come on down to Vero and we will tape those doors shut and go for a flight. Old Bob, The Purist
> > No word from Mr. Fitch?

Re: It Gets Worse

<34d524c3-fc22-4a5c-a08e-8041ca04eb2bn@googlegroups.com>

 copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/tech/article-flat.php?id=26862&group=rec.aviation.soaring#26862

 copy link   Newsgroups: rec.aviation.soaring
X-Received: by 2002:a05:6214:528e:b0:45a:95ff:337f with SMTP id kj14-20020a056214528e00b0045a95ff337fmr12287219qvb.78.1652631867385;
Sun, 15 May 2022 09:24:27 -0700 (PDT)
X-Received: by 2002:a05:6902:102a:b0:649:4564:5407 with SMTP id
x10-20020a056902102a00b0064945645407mr14671894ybt.565.1652631867162; Sun, 15
May 2022 09:24:27 -0700 (PDT)
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!usenet.goja.nl.eu.org!3.eu.feeder.erje.net!feeder.erje.net!proxad.net!feeder1-2.proxad.net!209.85.160.216.MISMATCH!news-out.google.com!nntp.google.com!postnews.google.com!google-groups.googlegroups.com!not-for-mail
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.soaring
Date: Sun, 15 May 2022 09:24:26 -0700 (PDT)
In-Reply-To: <3f2e5dc3-e662-419c-9dd9-df7e185c2577n@googlegroups.com>
Injection-Info: google-groups.googlegroups.com; posting-host=2600:6c54:5340:1aa4:4426:641f:bbd1:b3fc;
posting-account=igyo_woAAAAxdxQHjAB2cSS7_KQghTOv
NNTP-Posting-Host: 2600:6c54:5340:1aa4:4426:641f:bbd1:b3fc
References: <1c49b238-4a77-469b-ac62-b0567a70456en@googlegroups.com>
<df7dac0e-e2bd-48dd-a617-bb9bcd346493n@googlegroups.com> <fa193f6a-9ade-47f6-802c-f947bbef2e5cn@googlegroups.com>
<b8436a65-2a3c-429b-babd-614ffebf6bc3n@googlegroups.com> <3f2e5dc3-e662-419c-9dd9-df7e185c2577n@googlegroups.com>
User-Agent: G2/1.0
MIME-Version: 1.0
Message-ID: <34d524c3-fc22-4a5c-a08e-8041ca04eb2bn@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: It Gets Worse
From: soar2mor...@yahoo.com (2G)
Injection-Date: Sun, 15 May 2022 16:24:27 +0000
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
 by: 2G - Sun, 15 May 2022 16:24 UTC

On Saturday, May 14, 2022 at 5:01:33 AM UTC-7, youngbl...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Friday, May 13, 2022 at 9:40:51 PM UTC-4, jfitch wrote:
> > OK Bob, so now we have moved on from soaring and are arguing semantics. I’m on my boat, enroute to Alaska and really don’t have the time and bandwidth to keep this up. Ramy, I never called Bob greedy, and don’t think of him that way. He is however perfectly willing to cast derision and ridicule on a large class of his fellow pilots, repeatedly and without respite or subject knowledge.
> >
> > The sentence we are apparently arguing the semantics of (on a soaring site) is:
> >
> > “A motorglider is not less expensive than paying for tows - rather it costs more than all the tows you are ever likely to get - but the money ends up in some one other than Bob's pocket.”
> >
> > Can you point me to a single word in that sentence which is factually untrue? Surely you do not get a kickback from Schleicher or Schemp or Jonkers for every motorglider they sell? Now metaphorically, the club in that statement - and in Bob’s statement - is Bob’s pocket, or whoever is running the tow service, possessive nouns notwithstanding. Tows cannot contribute to the club or the operation unless the tow fees flow to the club or operation.
> >
> > This is all of course ridiculous. The ridiculousness started with Bob’s opening post, one of many tiresome ones on this subject. Get over it Bob. We know how you feel. We just don’t feel the same. You aren’t changing anyone’s mind.
> Mr. Fitch, in all honesty my post are generated as humor, not attempting to change anyone's mind, and I certainly am qualified to cast my own opinions regarding the differences between MG and purist flights. What you and the choir have attempted to do is cast dispersion regarding revenue and my personal agenda. You should be very cognizant of your intentions, it is just your dislike for me that drives your agenda. I have motorglider friends, my very best friend has gone over to the dark side and we tease each other almost daily as he calls me from the sky telling me how much battery life he has remaining after launch and I reply with something like,"You Will Never Be Late For Dinner". Get a grip on things Mr. Fitch, life is too short and a few laughs will go a long way in helping you along the way. As I stated in the last line of the initial thread, Enjoy those motorgliders my friends, call me if you ever neeed a tow, come to Vero and fly. Old Bob, The Purist
> > On Friday, May 13, 2022 at 2:31:19 PM UTC-7, youngbl...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > On Friday, April 29, 2022 at 1:17:02 AM UTC-4, jfitch wrote:
> > > > Bob, you can't stop progress, no matter how hard you try. But it is good to see someone getting along with muskets, spats, dial telephone land lines, wind up watches, lava lamps, 3-on-the-column shifts, and string towed gliders. So my friend, come out here and take a flight - oh wait a minute, you'll need a tow plane and we are fresh out......
> > > > On Thursday, April 28, 2022 at 5:20:21 PM UTC-7, youngbl...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > > > Right when things are somewhat calm and the snowbirds are headed back up north the weather finally gets good and we were able to get a few good glider flights in the books. The motorglider drivers up at Seminole had some nice flights and discovered that the Florida spring had arrived a bit late.
> > > > > Now comes the disturbing news, my fellow glider pilot and purist informed me that he had sold his 27 and was taking delivery of a motorglider. Now this is a good guy that I met back long ago only to realize that we were from the same area in Georgia. now this makes two of my good friends that have gone to the dark side during the past few weeks. I have been pondering what would cause two perfectly good guys to convert and go to the other side, this would be like me a UM guy pulling for the Gators or an Alabama fan pulling for Auburn, it just doesn't happen. I know that both of these fine gentlemen did not drink the same water from the Coosa River.
> > > > > Wow, what is happening, next thing you know my dog will be looking at motorgliders and trying to convince me to get one, I told Eileen to change the dogs medication. So, the best thing about this whole scenario is that I will have to buy two less Christmas cards and save money on the postage.
> > > > > As for me I will keep flying that antique 27 and Eileen will stay with the 24 and hopefully the dog will recover.
> > > > > Enjoy those motorgliders my friends, call me if you need a tow, or come on down to Vero and we will tape those doors shut and go for a flight. Old Bob, The Purist
> > > No word from Mr. Fitch?

Defamation is still defamation regardless of whether the motive is for personal gain or for sport.

Tom

Re: It Gets Worse

<9652889b-1e28-4cbb-86eb-fb8ee3b73379n@googlegroups.com>

 copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/tech/article-flat.php?id=26916&group=rec.aviation.soaring#26916

 copy link   Newsgroups: rec.aviation.soaring
X-Received: by 2002:a05:622a:3c6:b0:2f3:f7d6:63e0 with SMTP id k6-20020a05622a03c600b002f3f7d663e0mr1817870qtx.530.1652914016747;
Wed, 18 May 2022 15:46:56 -0700 (PDT)
X-Received: by 2002:a25:cbc6:0:b0:64d:82e4:67f4 with SMTP id
b189-20020a25cbc6000000b0064d82e467f4mr1821686ybg.350.1652914016486; Wed, 18
May 2022 15:46:56 -0700 (PDT)
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!weretis.net!feeder8.news.weretis.net!npeer.as286.net!npeer-ng0.as286.net!feeder1-1.proxad.net!proxad.net!feeder1-2.proxad.net!209.85.160.216.MISMATCH!news-out.google.com!nntp.google.com!postnews.google.com!google-groups.googlegroups.com!not-for-mail
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.soaring
Date: Wed, 18 May 2022 15:46:56 -0700 (PDT)
In-Reply-To: <34d524c3-fc22-4a5c-a08e-8041ca04eb2bn@googlegroups.com>
Injection-Info: google-groups.googlegroups.com; posting-host=167.88.216.4; posting-account=c9Y9mwoAAAA4FQbB4P7CGwNHwaF5Nv_5
NNTP-Posting-Host: 167.88.216.4
References: <1c49b238-4a77-469b-ac62-b0567a70456en@googlegroups.com>
<df7dac0e-e2bd-48dd-a617-bb9bcd346493n@googlegroups.com> <fa193f6a-9ade-47f6-802c-f947bbef2e5cn@googlegroups.com>
<b8436a65-2a3c-429b-babd-614ffebf6bc3n@googlegroups.com> <3f2e5dc3-e662-419c-9dd9-df7e185c2577n@googlegroups.com>
<34d524c3-fc22-4a5c-a08e-8041ca04eb2bn@googlegroups.com>
User-Agent: G2/1.0
MIME-Version: 1.0
Message-ID: <9652889b-1e28-4cbb-86eb-fb8ee3b73379n@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: It Gets Worse
From: youngblo...@gmail.com (youngbl...@gmail.com)
Injection-Date: Wed, 18 May 2022 22:46:56 +0000
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
 by: youngbl...@gmail.com - Wed, 18 May 2022 22:46 UTC

On Sunday, May 15, 2022 at 12:24:28 PM UTC-4, 2G wrote:
> On Saturday, May 14, 2022 at 5:01:33 AM UTC-7, youngbl...@gmail.com wrote:
> > On Friday, May 13, 2022 at 9:40:51 PM UTC-4, jfitch wrote:
> > > OK Bob, so now we have moved on from soaring and are arguing semantics. I’m on my boat, enroute to Alaska and really don’t have the time and bandwidth to keep this up. Ramy, I never called Bob greedy, and don’t think of him that way. He is however perfectly willing to cast derision and ridicule on a large class of his fellow pilots, repeatedly and without respite or subject knowledge.
> > >
> > > The sentence we are apparently arguing the semantics of (on a soaring site) is:
> > >
> > > “A motorglider is not less expensive than paying for tows - rather it costs more than all the tows you are ever likely to get - but the money ends up in some one other than Bob's pocket.”
> > >
> > > Can you point me to a single word in that sentence which is factually untrue? Surely you do not get a kickback from Schleicher or Schemp or Jonkers for every motorglider they sell? Now metaphorically, the club in that statement - and in Bob’s statement - is Bob’s pocket, or whoever is running the tow service, possessive nouns notwithstanding. Tows cannot contribute to the club or the operation unless the tow fees flow to the club or operation.
> > >
> > > This is all of course ridiculous. The ridiculousness started with Bob’s opening post, one of many tiresome ones on this subject. Get over it Bob. We know how you feel. We just don’t feel the same. You aren’t changing anyone’s mind.
> > Mr. Fitch, in all honesty my post are generated as humor, not attempting to change anyone's mind, and I certainly am qualified to cast my own opinions regarding the differences between MG and purist flights. What you and the choir have attempted to do is cast dispersion regarding revenue and my personal agenda. You should be very cognizant of your intentions, it is just your dislike for me that drives your agenda. I have motorglider friends, my very best friend has gone over to the dark side and we tease each other almost daily as he calls me from the sky telling me how much battery life he has remaining after launch and I reply with something like,"You Will Never Be Late For Dinner". Get a grip on things Mr. Fitch, life is too short and a few laughs will go a long way in helping you along the way. As I stated in the last line of the initial thread, Enjoy those motorgliders my friends, call me if you ever neeed a tow, come to Vero and fly. Old Bob, The Purist
> > > On Friday, May 13, 2022 at 2:31:19 PM UTC-7, youngbl...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > > On Friday, April 29, 2022 at 1:17:02 AM UTC-4, jfitch wrote:
> > > > > Bob, you can't stop progress, no matter how hard you try. But it is good to see someone getting along with muskets, spats, dial telephone land lines, wind up watches, lava lamps, 3-on-the-column shifts, and string towed gliders. So my friend, come out here and take a flight - oh wait a minute, you'll need a tow plane and we are fresh out......
> > > > > On Thursday, April 28, 2022 at 5:20:21 PM UTC-7, youngbl...@gmail..com wrote:
> > > > > > Right when things are somewhat calm and the snowbirds are headed back up north the weather finally gets good and we were able to get a few good glider flights in the books. The motorglider drivers up at Seminole had some nice flights and discovered that the Florida spring had arrived a bit late.
> > > > > > Now comes the disturbing news, my fellow glider pilot and purist informed me that he had sold his 27 and was taking delivery of a motorglider. Now this is a good guy that I met back long ago only to realize that we were from the same area in Georgia. now this makes two of my good friends that have gone to the dark side during the past few weeks. I have been pondering what would cause two perfectly good guys to convert and go to the other side, this would be like me a UM guy pulling for the Gators or an Alabama fan pulling for Auburn, it just doesn't happen. I know that both of these fine gentlemen did not drink the same water from the Coosa River.
> > > > > > Wow, what is happening, next thing you know my dog will be looking at motorgliders and trying to convince me to get one, I told Eileen to change the dogs medication. So, the best thing about this whole scenario is that I will have to buy two less Christmas cards and save money on the postage.
> > > > > > As for me I will keep flying that antique 27 and Eileen will stay with the 24 and hopefully the dog will recover.
> > > > > > Enjoy those motorgliders my friends, call me if you need a tow, or come on down to Vero and we will tape those doors shut and go for a flight. Old Bob, The Purist
> > > > No word from Mr. Fitch?
> Defamation is still defamation regardless of whether the motive is for personal gain or for sport.
>
> Tom
Uncle Tom, you are my favorite relative! Old Bob, The Purist

Re: It Gets Worse

<797421b4-f7f3-461f-bf07-ba864378131an@googlegroups.com>

 copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/tech/article-flat.php?id=26917&group=rec.aviation.soaring#26917

 copy link   Newsgroups: rec.aviation.soaring
X-Received: by 2002:a05:6214:e6b:b0:45b:474:1035 with SMTP id jz11-20020a0562140e6b00b0045b04741035mr2217387qvb.39.1652924074821;
Wed, 18 May 2022 18:34:34 -0700 (PDT)
X-Received: by 2002:a25:418f:0:b0:64d:6ebb:bda7 with SMTP id
o137-20020a25418f000000b0064d6ebbbda7mr2366759yba.546.1652924074637; Wed, 18
May 2022 18:34:34 -0700 (PDT)
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!weretis.net!feeder8.news.weretis.net!proxad.net!feeder1-2.proxad.net!209.85.160.216.MISMATCH!news-out.google.com!nntp.google.com!postnews.google.com!google-groups.googlegroups.com!not-for-mail
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.soaring
Date: Wed, 18 May 2022 18:34:34 -0700 (PDT)
In-Reply-To: <9652889b-1e28-4cbb-86eb-fb8ee3b73379n@googlegroups.com>
Injection-Info: google-groups.googlegroups.com; posting-host=2600:6c54:5340:1aa4:8d22:a045:3ad6:ab7b;
posting-account=igyo_woAAAAxdxQHjAB2cSS7_KQghTOv
NNTP-Posting-Host: 2600:6c54:5340:1aa4:8d22:a045:3ad6:ab7b
References: <1c49b238-4a77-469b-ac62-b0567a70456en@googlegroups.com>
<df7dac0e-e2bd-48dd-a617-bb9bcd346493n@googlegroups.com> <fa193f6a-9ade-47f6-802c-f947bbef2e5cn@googlegroups.com>
<b8436a65-2a3c-429b-babd-614ffebf6bc3n@googlegroups.com> <3f2e5dc3-e662-419c-9dd9-df7e185c2577n@googlegroups.com>
<34d524c3-fc22-4a5c-a08e-8041ca04eb2bn@googlegroups.com> <9652889b-1e28-4cbb-86eb-fb8ee3b73379n@googlegroups.com>
User-Agent: G2/1.0
MIME-Version: 1.0
Message-ID: <797421b4-f7f3-461f-bf07-ba864378131an@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: It Gets Worse
From: soar2mor...@yahoo.com (2G)
Injection-Date: Thu, 19 May 2022 01:34:34 +0000
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
 by: 2G - Thu, 19 May 2022 01:34 UTC

On Wednesday, May 18, 2022 at 3:46:58 PM UTC-7, youngbl...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Sunday, May 15, 2022 at 12:24:28 PM UTC-4, 2G wrote:
> > On Saturday, May 14, 2022 at 5:01:33 AM UTC-7, youngbl...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > On Friday, May 13, 2022 at 9:40:51 PM UTC-4, jfitch wrote:
> > > > OK Bob, so now we have moved on from soaring and are arguing semantics. I’m on my boat, enroute to Alaska and really don’t have the time and bandwidth to keep this up. Ramy, I never called Bob greedy, and don’t think of him that way. He is however perfectly willing to cast derision and ridicule on a large class of his fellow pilots, repeatedly and without respite or subject knowledge.
> > > >
> > > > The sentence we are apparently arguing the semantics of (on a soaring site) is:
> > > >
> > > > “A motorglider is not less expensive than paying for tows - rather it costs more than all the tows you are ever likely to get - but the money ends up in some one other than Bob's pocket.”
> > > >
> > > > Can you point me to a single word in that sentence which is factually untrue? Surely you do not get a kickback from Schleicher or Schemp or Jonkers for every motorglider they sell? Now metaphorically, the club in that statement - and in Bob’s statement - is Bob’s pocket, or whoever is running the tow service, possessive nouns notwithstanding. Tows cannot contribute to the club or the operation unless the tow fees flow to the club or operation.
> > > >
> > > > This is all of course ridiculous. The ridiculousness started with Bob’s opening post, one of many tiresome ones on this subject. Get over it Bob. We know how you feel. We just don’t feel the same. You aren’t changing anyone’s mind.
> > > Mr. Fitch, in all honesty my post are generated as humor, not attempting to change anyone's mind, and I certainly am qualified to cast my own opinions regarding the differences between MG and purist flights. What you and the choir have attempted to do is cast dispersion regarding revenue and my personal agenda. You should be very cognizant of your intentions, it is just your dislike for me that drives your agenda. I have motorglider friends, my very best friend has gone over to the dark side and we tease each other almost daily as he calls me from the sky telling me how much battery life he has remaining after launch and I reply with something like,"You Will Never Be Late For Dinner". Get a grip on things Mr. Fitch, life is too short and a few laughs will go a long way in helping you along the way. As I stated in the last line of the initial thread, Enjoy those motorgliders my friends, call me if you ever neeed a tow, come to Vero and fly. Old Bob, The Purist
> > > > On Friday, May 13, 2022 at 2:31:19 PM UTC-7, youngbl...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > > > On Friday, April 29, 2022 at 1:17:02 AM UTC-4, jfitch wrote:
> > > > > > Bob, you can't stop progress, no matter how hard you try. But it is good to see someone getting along with muskets, spats, dial telephone land lines, wind up watches, lava lamps, 3-on-the-column shifts, and string towed gliders. So my friend, come out here and take a flight - oh wait a minute, you'll need a tow plane and we are fresh out......
> > > > > > On Thursday, April 28, 2022 at 5:20:21 PM UTC-7, youngbl...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > > > > > Right when things are somewhat calm and the snowbirds are headed back up north the weather finally gets good and we were able to get a few good glider flights in the books. The motorglider drivers up at Seminole had some nice flights and discovered that the Florida spring had arrived a bit late.
> > > > > > > Now comes the disturbing news, my fellow glider pilot and purist informed me that he had sold his 27 and was taking delivery of a motorglider. Now this is a good guy that I met back long ago only to realize that we were from the same area in Georgia. now this makes two of my good friends that have gone to the dark side during the past few weeks. I have been pondering what would cause two perfectly good guys to convert and go to the other side, this would be like me a UM guy pulling for the Gators or an Alabama fan pulling for Auburn, it just doesn't happen. I know that both of these fine gentlemen did not drink the same water from the Coosa River.
> > > > > > > Wow, what is happening, next thing you know my dog will be looking at motorgliders and trying to convince me to get one, I told Eileen to change the dogs medication. So, the best thing about this whole scenario is that I will have to buy two less Christmas cards and save money on the postage.
> > > > > > > As for me I will keep flying that antique 27 and Eileen will stay with the 24 and hopefully the dog will recover.
> > > > > > > Enjoy those motorgliders my friends, call me if you need a tow, or come on down to Vero and we will tape those doors shut and go for a flight. Old Bob, The Purist
> > > > > No word from Mr. Fitch?
> > Defamation is still defamation regardless of whether the motive is for personal gain or for sport.
> >
> > Tom
> Uncle Tom, you are my favorite relative! Old Bob, The Purist

You're resorting to your racist comments again, Not So Purist Bobby.

Re: It Gets Worse

<15798844-2059-44af-9ff7-0927d946929cn@googlegroups.com>

 copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/tech/article-flat.php?id=26919&group=rec.aviation.soaring#26919

 copy link   Newsgroups: rec.aviation.soaring
X-Received: by 2002:ac8:5787:0:b0:2f9:1687:6216 with SMTP id v7-20020ac85787000000b002f916876216mr1713131qta.382.1652973592100;
Thu, 19 May 2022 08:19:52 -0700 (PDT)
X-Received: by 2002:a05:6902:1247:b0:649:4ca8:7ba3 with SMTP id
t7-20020a056902124700b006494ca87ba3mr5278674ybu.562.1652973591925; Thu, 19
May 2022 08:19:51 -0700 (PDT)
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!weretis.net!feeder8.news.weretis.net!proxad.net!feeder1-2.proxad.net!209.85.160.216.MISMATCH!news-out.google.com!nntp.google.com!postnews.google.com!google-groups.googlegroups.com!not-for-mail
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.soaring
Date: Thu, 19 May 2022 08:19:51 -0700 (PDT)
In-Reply-To: <3f2e5dc3-e662-419c-9dd9-df7e185c2577n@googlegroups.com>
Injection-Info: google-groups.googlegroups.com; posting-host=170.203.216.151; posting-account=iAM2TQoAAADhu0gdPRPBkv6mfgKgEaUm
NNTP-Posting-Host: 170.203.216.151
References: <1c49b238-4a77-469b-ac62-b0567a70456en@googlegroups.com>
<df7dac0e-e2bd-48dd-a617-bb9bcd346493n@googlegroups.com> <fa193f6a-9ade-47f6-802c-f947bbef2e5cn@googlegroups.com>
<b8436a65-2a3c-429b-babd-614ffebf6bc3n@googlegroups.com> <3f2e5dc3-e662-419c-9dd9-df7e185c2577n@googlegroups.com>
User-Agent: G2/1.0
MIME-Version: 1.0
Message-ID: <15798844-2059-44af-9ff7-0927d946929cn@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: It Gets Worse
From: jfi...@flash.net (jfitch)
Injection-Date: Thu, 19 May 2022 15:19:52 +0000
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
 by: jfitch - Thu, 19 May 2022 15:19 UTC

Bob, I neither like nor dislike you, in fact I don’t think about you much at all. Your first post in this thread (one of many similar ones) may have been humorous, as was my first response. But by the third one you had descended into the same drivel, motorglider pilots lack the skill for cross country, aren’t Real Men, etc. That isn’t humorous, just false and insulting. Kinda like if I said you “purist” pilots require Viagra, because you can’t get it up without help.

To then fault me for casting “dispersion” on you for merely repeating what you said is ironic. I know nothing of you or your club’s revenue, other than motorgliders are perceived as a threat to it (in your own words). You agenda you have made excruciatingly explicit. If you want to be liked, get a tow, smile smugly to yourself, and keep quiet about it. I will continue to completely discount any opinion you may have on motorglider cross country flight - and encourage others to do so - until you have gained at least some experience in them.
On Saturday, May 14, 2022 at 5:01:33 AM UTC-7, youngbl...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Friday, May 13, 2022 at 9:40:51 PM UTC-4, jfitch wrote:
> > OK Bob, so now we have moved on from soaring and are arguing semantics. I’m on my boat, enroute to Alaska and really don’t have the time and bandwidth to keep this up. Ramy, I never called Bob greedy, and don’t think of him that way. He is however perfectly willing to cast derision and ridicule on a large class of his fellow pilots, repeatedly and without respite or subject knowledge.
> >
> > The sentence we are apparently arguing the semantics of (on a soaring site) is:
> >
> > “A motorglider is not less expensive than paying for tows - rather it costs more than all the tows you are ever likely to get - but the money ends up in some one other than Bob's pocket.”
> >
> > Can you point me to a single word in that sentence which is factually untrue? Surely you do not get a kickback from Schleicher or Schemp or Jonkers for every motorglider they sell? Now metaphorically, the club in that statement - and in Bob’s statement - is Bob’s pocket, or whoever is running the tow service, possessive nouns notwithstanding. Tows cannot contribute to the club or the operation unless the tow fees flow to the club or operation.
> >
> > This is all of course ridiculous. The ridiculousness started with Bob’s opening post, one of many tiresome ones on this subject. Get over it Bob. We know how you feel. We just don’t feel the same. You aren’t changing anyone’s mind.
> Mr. Fitch, in all honesty my post are generated as humor, not attempting to change anyone's mind, and I certainly am qualified to cast my own opinions regarding the differences between MG and purist flights. What you and the choir have attempted to do is cast dispersion regarding revenue and my personal agenda. You should be very cognizant of your intentions, it is just your dislike for me that drives your agenda. I have motorglider friends, my very best friend has gone over to the dark side and we tease each other almost daily as he calls me from the sky telling me how much battery life he has remaining after launch and I reply with something like,"You Will Never Be Late For Dinner". Get a grip on things Mr. Fitch, life is too short and a few laughs will go a long way in helping you along the way. As I stated in the last line of the initial thread, Enjoy those motorgliders my friends, call me if you ever neeed a tow, come to Vero and fly. Old Bob, The Purist
> > On Friday, May 13, 2022 at 2:31:19 PM UTC-7, youngbl...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > On Friday, April 29, 2022 at 1:17:02 AM UTC-4, jfitch wrote:
> > > > Bob, you can't stop progress, no matter how hard you try. But it is good to see someone getting along with muskets, spats, dial telephone land lines, wind up watches, lava lamps, 3-on-the-column shifts, and string towed gliders. So my friend, come out here and take a flight - oh wait a minute, you'll need a tow plane and we are fresh out......
> > > > On Thursday, April 28, 2022 at 5:20:21 PM UTC-7, youngbl...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > > > Right when things are somewhat calm and the snowbirds are headed back up north the weather finally gets good and we were able to get a few good glider flights in the books. The motorglider drivers up at Seminole had some nice flights and discovered that the Florida spring had arrived a bit late.
> > > > > Now comes the disturbing news, my fellow glider pilot and purist informed me that he had sold his 27 and was taking delivery of a motorglider. Now this is a good guy that I met back long ago only to realize that we were from the same area in Georgia. now this makes two of my good friends that have gone to the dark side during the past few weeks. I have been pondering what would cause two perfectly good guys to convert and go to the other side, this would be like me a UM guy pulling for the Gators or an Alabama fan pulling for Auburn, it just doesn't happen. I know that both of these fine gentlemen did not drink the same water from the Coosa River.
> > > > > Wow, what is happening, next thing you know my dog will be looking at motorgliders and trying to convince me to get one, I told Eileen to change the dogs medication. So, the best thing about this whole scenario is that I will have to buy two less Christmas cards and save money on the postage.
> > > > > As for me I will keep flying that antique 27 and Eileen will stay with the 24 and hopefully the dog will recover.
> > > > > Enjoy those motorgliders my friends, call me if you need a tow, or come on down to Vero and we will tape those doors shut and go for a flight. Old Bob, The Purist
> > > No word from Mr. Fitch?

Re: It Gets Worse

<e193c9b3-2652-4305-9181-32b2f47c24f4n@googlegroups.com>

 copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/tech/article-flat.php?id=26922&group=rec.aviation.soaring#26922

 copy link   Newsgroups: rec.aviation.soaring
X-Received: by 2002:a05:622a:1210:b0:2f3:da26:3778 with SMTP id y16-20020a05622a121000b002f3da263778mr4938029qtx.173.1652981679805;
Thu, 19 May 2022 10:34:39 -0700 (PDT)
X-Received: by 2002:a81:6d0a:0:b0:2ff:22d1:d049 with SMTP id
i10-20020a816d0a000000b002ff22d1d049mr5732284ywc.55.1652981679588; Thu, 19
May 2022 10:34:39 -0700 (PDT)
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!weretis.net!feeder8.news.weretis.net!proxad.net!feeder1-2.proxad.net!209.85.160.216.MISMATCH!news-out.google.com!nntp.google.com!postnews.google.com!google-groups.googlegroups.com!not-for-mail
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.soaring
Date: Thu, 19 May 2022 10:34:39 -0700 (PDT)
In-Reply-To: <15798844-2059-44af-9ff7-0927d946929cn@googlegroups.com>
Injection-Info: google-groups.googlegroups.com; posting-host=167.88.216.4; posting-account=c9Y9mwoAAAA4FQbB4P7CGwNHwaF5Nv_5
NNTP-Posting-Host: 167.88.216.4
References: <1c49b238-4a77-469b-ac62-b0567a70456en@googlegroups.com>
<df7dac0e-e2bd-48dd-a617-bb9bcd346493n@googlegroups.com> <fa193f6a-9ade-47f6-802c-f947bbef2e5cn@googlegroups.com>
<b8436a65-2a3c-429b-babd-614ffebf6bc3n@googlegroups.com> <3f2e5dc3-e662-419c-9dd9-df7e185c2577n@googlegroups.com>
<15798844-2059-44af-9ff7-0927d946929cn@googlegroups.com>
User-Agent: G2/1.0
MIME-Version: 1.0
Message-ID: <e193c9b3-2652-4305-9181-32b2f47c24f4n@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: It Gets Worse
From: youngblo...@gmail.com (youngbl...@gmail.com)
Injection-Date: Thu, 19 May 2022 17:34:39 +0000
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
 by: youngbl...@gmail.com - Thu, 19 May 2022 17:34 UTC

On Thursday, May 19, 2022 at 11:19:53 AM UTC-4, jfitch wrote:
> Bob, I neither like nor dislike you, in fact I don’t think about you much at all. Your first post in this thread (one of many similar ones) may have been humorous, as was my first response. But by the third one you had descended into the same drivel, motorglider pilots lack the skill for cross country, aren’t Real Men, etc. That isn’t humorous, just false and insulting. Kinda like if I said you “purist” pilots require Viagra, because you can’t get it up without help.
>
> To then fault me for casting “dispersion” on you for merely repeating what you said is ironic. I know nothing of you or your club’s revenue, other than motorgliders are perceived as a threat to it (in your own words). You agenda you have made excruciatingly explicit. If you want to be liked, get a tow, smile smugly to yourself, and keep quiet about it. I will continue to completely discount any opinion you may have on motorglider cross country flight - and encourage others to do so - until you have gained at least some experience in them.
> On Saturday, May 14, 2022 at 5:01:33 AM UTC-7, youngbl...@gmail.com wrote:
> > On Friday, May 13, 2022 at 9:40:51 PM UTC-4, jfitch wrote:
> > > OK Bob, so now we have moved on from soaring and are arguing semantics. I’m on my boat, enroute to Alaska and really don’t have the time and bandwidth to keep this up. Ramy, I never called Bob greedy, and don’t think of him that way. He is however perfectly willing to cast derision and ridicule on a large class of his fellow pilots, repeatedly and without respite or subject knowledge.
> > >
> > > The sentence we are apparently arguing the semantics of (on a soaring site) is:
> > >
> > > “A motorglider is not less expensive than paying for tows - rather it costs more than all the tows you are ever likely to get - but the money ends up in some one other than Bob's pocket.”
> > >
> > > Can you point me to a single word in that sentence which is factually untrue? Surely you do not get a kickback from Schleicher or Schemp or Jonkers for every motorglider they sell? Now metaphorically, the club in that statement - and in Bob’s statement - is Bob’s pocket, or whoever is running the tow service, possessive nouns notwithstanding. Tows cannot contribute to the club or the operation unless the tow fees flow to the club or operation.
> > >
> > > This is all of course ridiculous. The ridiculousness started with Bob’s opening post, one of many tiresome ones on this subject. Get over it Bob. We know how you feel. We just don’t feel the same. You aren’t changing anyone’s mind.
> > Mr. Fitch, in all honesty my post are generated as humor, not attempting to change anyone's mind, and I certainly am qualified to cast my own opinions regarding the differences between MG and purist flights. What you and the choir have attempted to do is cast dispersion regarding revenue and my personal agenda. You should be very cognizant of your intentions, it is just your dislike for me that drives your agenda. I have motorglider friends, my very best friend has gone over to the dark side and we tease each other almost daily as he calls me from the sky telling me how much battery life he has remaining after launch and I reply with something like,"You Will Never Be Late For Dinner". Get a grip on things Mr. Fitch, life is too short and a few laughs will go a long way in helping you along the way. As I stated in the last line of the initial thread, Enjoy those motorgliders my friends, call me if you ever neeed a tow, come to Vero and fly. Old Bob, The Purist
> > > On Friday, May 13, 2022 at 2:31:19 PM UTC-7, youngbl...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > > On Friday, April 29, 2022 at 1:17:02 AM UTC-4, jfitch wrote:
> > > > > Bob, you can't stop progress, no matter how hard you try. But it is good to see someone getting along with muskets, spats, dial telephone land lines, wind up watches, lava lamps, 3-on-the-column shifts, and string towed gliders. So my friend, come out here and take a flight - oh wait a minute, you'll need a tow plane and we are fresh out......
> > > > > On Thursday, April 28, 2022 at 5:20:21 PM UTC-7, youngbl...@gmail..com wrote:
> > > > > > Right when things are somewhat calm and the snowbirds are headed back up north the weather finally gets good and we were able to get a few good glider flights in the books. The motorglider drivers up at Seminole had some nice flights and discovered that the Florida spring had arrived a bit late.
> > > > > > Now comes the disturbing news, my fellow glider pilot and purist informed me that he had sold his 27 and was taking delivery of a motorglider. Now this is a good guy that I met back long ago only to realize that we were from the same area in Georgia. now this makes two of my good friends that have gone to the dark side during the past few weeks. I have been pondering what would cause two perfectly good guys to convert and go to the other side, this would be like me a UM guy pulling for the Gators or an Alabama fan pulling for Auburn, it just doesn't happen. I know that both of these fine gentlemen did not drink the same water from the Coosa River.
> > > > > > Wow, what is happening, next thing you know my dog will be looking at motorgliders and trying to convince me to get one, I told Eileen to change the dogs medication. So, the best thing about this whole scenario is that I will have to buy two less Christmas cards and save money on the postage.
> > > > > > As for me I will keep flying that antique 27 and Eileen will stay with the 24 and hopefully the dog will recover.
> > > > > > Enjoy those motorgliders my friends, call me if you need a tow, or come on down to Vero and we will tape those doors shut and go for a flight. Old Bob, The Purist
> > > > No word from Mr. Fitch?
Mr. Fitch, I certainly hope that you are enjoying the trip to Alaska and I hope that the boat doesn't develop a leak! You have once again skirted the issue that I stated that the motorglider was a threat to my revenue. I asked you to produce where I had stated that remark and even offered a deal that would require a penalty. You have continued to ignore the issue and not produce the facts. Me, on the other hand would have gladly gone away for 60 days as offered had I made the comments that you said that I did. Mr. Fitch, my experience speaks for itself, as I stated I have flown many gliders, including motorgliders and I certainly know the difference between Purist flights and Motorglider flights, it's like apples and oranges, they aren't the same. I am glad that I have captured your imagination. Old Bob, The Purist

Re: It Gets Worse

<611026de-bede-4401-b1c0-5c5355650771n@googlegroups.com>

 copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/tech/article-flat.php?id=26931&group=rec.aviation.soaring#26931

 copy link   Newsgroups: rec.aviation.soaring
X-Received: by 2002:a05:620a:28c7:b0:6a0:5de3:e6 with SMTP id l7-20020a05620a28c700b006a05de300e6mr8356956qkp.464.1653107286455;
Fri, 20 May 2022 21:28:06 -0700 (PDT)
X-Received: by 2002:a81:2585:0:b0:2fe:c8e3:6b87 with SMTP id
l127-20020a812585000000b002fec8e36b87mr13691198ywl.203.1653107286157; Fri, 20
May 2022 21:28:06 -0700 (PDT)
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!weretis.net!feeder8.news.weretis.net!proxad.net!feeder1-2.proxad.net!209.85.160.216.MISMATCH!news-out.google.com!nntp.google.com!postnews.google.com!google-groups.googlegroups.com!not-for-mail
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.soaring
Date: Fri, 20 May 2022 21:28:05 -0700 (PDT)
In-Reply-To: <e193c9b3-2652-4305-9181-32b2f47c24f4n@googlegroups.com>
Injection-Info: google-groups.googlegroups.com; posting-host=2600:8800:1220:3800:5dfb:af6f:771e:c8de;
posting-account=wVhaWQoAAABTpcbVDKHHNmwx4afCMAzA
NNTP-Posting-Host: 2600:8800:1220:3800:5dfb:af6f:771e:c8de
References: <1c49b238-4a77-469b-ac62-b0567a70456en@googlegroups.com>
<df7dac0e-e2bd-48dd-a617-bb9bcd346493n@googlegroups.com> <fa193f6a-9ade-47f6-802c-f947bbef2e5cn@googlegroups.com>
<b8436a65-2a3c-429b-babd-614ffebf6bc3n@googlegroups.com> <3f2e5dc3-e662-419c-9dd9-df7e185c2577n@googlegroups.com>
<15798844-2059-44af-9ff7-0927d946929cn@googlegroups.com> <e193c9b3-2652-4305-9181-32b2f47c24f4n@googlegroups.com>
User-Agent: G2/1.0
MIME-Version: 1.0
Message-ID: <611026de-bede-4401-b1c0-5c5355650771n@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: It Gets Worse
From: ryszard....@gmail.com (RW)
Injection-Date: Sat, 21 May 2022 04:28:06 +0000
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
 by: RW - Sat, 21 May 2022 04:28 UTC

On Thursday, May 19, 2022 at 10:34:41 AM UTC-7, youngbl...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Thursday, May 19, 2022 at 11:19:53 AM UTC-4, jfitch wrote:
> > Bob, I neither like nor dislike you, in fact I don’t think about you much at all. Your first post in this thread (one of many similar ones) may have been humorous, as was my first response. But by the third one you had descended into the same drivel, motorglider pilots lack the skill for cross country, aren’t Real Men, etc. That isn’t humorous, just false and insulting. Kinda like if I said you “purist” pilots require Viagra, because you can’t get it up without help.
> >
> > To then fault me for casting “dispersion” on you for merely repeating what you said is ironic. I know nothing of you or your club’s revenue, other than motorgliders are perceived as a threat to it (in your own words). You agenda you have made excruciatingly explicit. If you want to be liked, get a tow, smile smugly to yourself, and keep quiet about it. I will continue to completely discount any opinion you may have on motorglider cross country flight - and encourage others to do so - until you have gained at least some experience in them.
> > On Saturday, May 14, 2022 at 5:01:33 AM UTC-7, youngbl...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > On Friday, May 13, 2022 at 9:40:51 PM UTC-4, jfitch wrote:
> > > > OK Bob, so now we have moved on from soaring and are arguing semantics. I’m on my boat, enroute to Alaska and really don’t have the time and bandwidth to keep this up. Ramy, I never called Bob greedy, and don’t think of him that way. He is however perfectly willing to cast derision and ridicule on a large class of his fellow pilots, repeatedly and without respite or subject knowledge.
> > > >
> > > > The sentence we are apparently arguing the semantics of (on a soaring site) is:
> > > >
> > > > “A motorglider is not less expensive than paying for tows - rather it costs more than all the tows you are ever likely to get - but the money ends up in some one other than Bob's pocket.”
> > > >
> > > > Can you point me to a single word in that sentence which is factually untrue? Surely you do not get a kickback from Schleicher or Schemp or Jonkers for every motorglider they sell? Now metaphorically, the club in that statement - and in Bob’s statement - is Bob’s pocket, or whoever is running the tow service, possessive nouns notwithstanding. Tows cannot contribute to the club or the operation unless the tow fees flow to the club or operation.
> > > >
> > > > This is all of course ridiculous. The ridiculousness started with Bob’s opening post, one of many tiresome ones on this subject. Get over it Bob. We know how you feel. We just don’t feel the same. You aren’t changing anyone’s mind.
> > > Mr. Fitch, in all honesty my post are generated as humor, not attempting to change anyone's mind, and I certainly am qualified to cast my own opinions regarding the differences between MG and purist flights. What you and the choir have attempted to do is cast dispersion regarding revenue and my personal agenda. You should be very cognizant of your intentions, it is just your dislike for me that drives your agenda. I have motorglider friends, my very best friend has gone over to the dark side and we tease each other almost daily as he calls me from the sky telling me how much battery life he has remaining after launch and I reply with something like,"You Will Never Be Late For Dinner". Get a grip on things Mr. Fitch, life is too short and a few laughs will go a long way in helping you along the way. As I stated in the last line of the initial thread, Enjoy those motorgliders my friends, call me if you ever neeed a tow, come to Vero and fly. Old Bob, The Purist
> > > > On Friday, May 13, 2022 at 2:31:19 PM UTC-7, youngbl...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > > > On Friday, April 29, 2022 at 1:17:02 AM UTC-4, jfitch wrote:
> > > > > > Bob, you can't stop progress, no matter how hard you try. But it is good to see someone getting along with muskets, spats, dial telephone land lines, wind up watches, lava lamps, 3-on-the-column shifts, and string towed gliders. So my friend, come out here and take a flight - oh wait a minute, you'll need a tow plane and we are fresh out......
> > > > > > On Thursday, April 28, 2022 at 5:20:21 PM UTC-7, youngbl...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > > > > > Right when things are somewhat calm and the snowbirds are headed back up north the weather finally gets good and we were able to get a few good glider flights in the books. The motorglider drivers up at Seminole had some nice flights and discovered that the Florida spring had arrived a bit late.
> > > > > > > Now comes the disturbing news, my fellow glider pilot and purist informed me that he had sold his 27 and was taking delivery of a motorglider. Now this is a good guy that I met back long ago only to realize that we were from the same area in Georgia. now this makes two of my good friends that have gone to the dark side during the past few weeks. I have been pondering what would cause two perfectly good guys to convert and go to the other side, this would be like me a UM guy pulling for the Gators or an Alabama fan pulling for Auburn, it just doesn't happen. I know that both of these fine gentlemen did not drink the same water from the Coosa River.
> > > > > > > Wow, what is happening, next thing you know my dog will be looking at motorgliders and trying to convince me to get one, I told Eileen to change the dogs medication. So, the best thing about this whole scenario is that I will have to buy two less Christmas cards and save money on the postage.
> > > > > > > As for me I will keep flying that antique 27 and Eileen will stay with the 24 and hopefully the dog will recover.
> > > > > > > Enjoy those motorgliders my friends, call me if you need a tow, or come on down to Vero and we will tape those doors shut and go for a flight. Old Bob, The Purist
> > > > > No word from Mr. Fitch?
> Mr. Fitch, I certainly hope that you are enjoying the trip to Alaska and I hope that the boat doesn't develop a leak! You have once again skirted the issue that I stated that the motorglider was a threat to my revenue. I asked you to produce where I had stated that remark and even offered a deal that would require a penalty. You have continued to ignore the issue and not produce the facts. Me, on the other hand would have gladly gone away for 60 days as offered had I made the comments that you said that I did. Mr. Fitch, my experience speaks for itself, as I stated I have flown many gliders, including motorgliders and I certainly know the difference between Purist flights and Motorglider flights, it's like apples and oranges, they aren't the same. I am glad that I have captured your imagination. Old Bob, The Purist

Congratulations to US 2022 18m Nationals winners!
1 Sean Fidler
2 Sean Murphy
3 Robin Clark

Ryszard Krolikowski

Re: It Gets Worse

<0be12c2c-dd7a-4822-83e5-8aaec91bd8d7n@googlegroups.com>

 copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/tech/article-flat.php?id=26933&group=rec.aviation.soaring#26933

 copy link   Newsgroups: rec.aviation.soaring
X-Received: by 2002:ac8:5dcc:0:b0:2f3:d8d2:7cf with SMTP id e12-20020ac85dcc000000b002f3d8d207cfmr11993634qtx.464.1653165992048;
Sat, 21 May 2022 13:46:32 -0700 (PDT)
X-Received: by 2002:a81:a048:0:b0:2ff:15aa:2091 with SMTP id
x69-20020a81a048000000b002ff15aa2091mr13707340ywg.152.1653165991826; Sat, 21
May 2022 13:46:31 -0700 (PDT)
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!weretis.net!feeder8.news.weretis.net!news.uzoreto.com!feeder1.cambriumusenet.nl!feed.tweak.nl!209.85.160.216.MISMATCH!news-out.google.com!nntp.google.com!postnews.google.com!google-groups.googlegroups.com!not-for-mail
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.soaring
Date: Sat, 21 May 2022 13:46:31 -0700 (PDT)
In-Reply-To: <e193c9b3-2652-4305-9181-32b2f47c24f4n@googlegroups.com>
Injection-Info: google-groups.googlegroups.com; posting-host=2600:6c54:5340:1aa4:f817:1e3f:8705:8e77;
posting-account=igyo_woAAAAxdxQHjAB2cSS7_KQghTOv
NNTP-Posting-Host: 2600:6c54:5340:1aa4:f817:1e3f:8705:8e77
References: <1c49b238-4a77-469b-ac62-b0567a70456en@googlegroups.com>
<df7dac0e-e2bd-48dd-a617-bb9bcd346493n@googlegroups.com> <fa193f6a-9ade-47f6-802c-f947bbef2e5cn@googlegroups.com>
<b8436a65-2a3c-429b-babd-614ffebf6bc3n@googlegroups.com> <3f2e5dc3-e662-419c-9dd9-df7e185c2577n@googlegroups.com>
<15798844-2059-44af-9ff7-0927d946929cn@googlegroups.com> <e193c9b3-2652-4305-9181-32b2f47c24f4n@googlegroups.com>
User-Agent: G2/1.0
MIME-Version: 1.0
Message-ID: <0be12c2c-dd7a-4822-83e5-8aaec91bd8d7n@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: It Gets Worse
From: soar2mor...@yahoo.com (2G)
Injection-Date: Sat, 21 May 2022 20:46:32 +0000
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
 by: 2G - Sat, 21 May 2022 20:46 UTC

On Thursday, May 19, 2022 at 10:34:41 AM UTC-7, youngbl...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Thursday, May 19, 2022 at 11:19:53 AM UTC-4, jfitch wrote:
> > Bob, I neither like nor dislike you, in fact I don’t think about you much at all. Your first post in this thread (one of many similar ones) may have been humorous, as was my first response. But by the third one you had descended into the same drivel, motorglider pilots lack the skill for cross country, aren’t Real Men, etc. That isn’t humorous, just false and insulting. Kinda like if I said you “purist” pilots require Viagra, because you can’t get it up without help.
> >
> > To then fault me for casting “dispersion” on you for merely repeating what you said is ironic. I know nothing of you or your club’s revenue, other than motorgliders are perceived as a threat to it (in your own words). You agenda you have made excruciatingly explicit. If you want to be liked, get a tow, smile smugly to yourself, and keep quiet about it. I will continue to completely discount any opinion you may have on motorglider cross country flight - and encourage others to do so - until you have gained at least some experience in them.
> > On Saturday, May 14, 2022 at 5:01:33 AM UTC-7, youngbl...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > On Friday, May 13, 2022 at 9:40:51 PM UTC-4, jfitch wrote:
> > > > OK Bob, so now we have moved on from soaring and are arguing semantics. I’m on my boat, enroute to Alaska and really don’t have the time and bandwidth to keep this up. Ramy, I never called Bob greedy, and don’t think of him that way. He is however perfectly willing to cast derision and ridicule on a large class of his fellow pilots, repeatedly and without respite or subject knowledge.
> > > >
> > > > The sentence we are apparently arguing the semantics of (on a soaring site) is:
> > > >
> > > > “A motorglider is not less expensive than paying for tows - rather it costs more than all the tows you are ever likely to get - but the money ends up in some one other than Bob's pocket.”
> > > >
> > > > Can you point me to a single word in that sentence which is factually untrue? Surely you do not get a kickback from Schleicher or Schemp or Jonkers for every motorglider they sell? Now metaphorically, the club in that statement - and in Bob’s statement - is Bob’s pocket, or whoever is running the tow service, possessive nouns notwithstanding. Tows cannot contribute to the club or the operation unless the tow fees flow to the club or operation.
> > > >
> > > > This is all of course ridiculous. The ridiculousness started with Bob’s opening post, one of many tiresome ones on this subject. Get over it Bob. We know how you feel. We just don’t feel the same. You aren’t changing anyone’s mind.
> > > Mr. Fitch, in all honesty my post are generated as humor, not attempting to change anyone's mind, and I certainly am qualified to cast my own opinions regarding the differences between MG and purist flights. What you and the choir have attempted to do is cast dispersion regarding revenue and my personal agenda. You should be very cognizant of your intentions, it is just your dislike for me that drives your agenda. I have motorglider friends, my very best friend has gone over to the dark side and we tease each other almost daily as he calls me from the sky telling me how much battery life he has remaining after launch and I reply with something like,"You Will Never Be Late For Dinner". Get a grip on things Mr. Fitch, life is too short and a few laughs will go a long way in helping you along the way. As I stated in the last line of the initial thread, Enjoy those motorgliders my friends, call me if you ever neeed a tow, come to Vero and fly. Old Bob, The Purist
> > > > On Friday, May 13, 2022 at 2:31:19 PM UTC-7, youngbl...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > > > On Friday, April 29, 2022 at 1:17:02 AM UTC-4, jfitch wrote:
> > > > > > Bob, you can't stop progress, no matter how hard you try. But it is good to see someone getting along with muskets, spats, dial telephone land lines, wind up watches, lava lamps, 3-on-the-column shifts, and string towed gliders. So my friend, come out here and take a flight - oh wait a minute, you'll need a tow plane and we are fresh out......
> > > > > > On Thursday, April 28, 2022 at 5:20:21 PM UTC-7, youngbl...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > > > > > Right when things are somewhat calm and the snowbirds are headed back up north the weather finally gets good and we were able to get a few good glider flights in the books. The motorglider drivers up at Seminole had some nice flights and discovered that the Florida spring had arrived a bit late.
> > > > > > > Now comes the disturbing news, my fellow glider pilot and purist informed me that he had sold his 27 and was taking delivery of a motorglider. Now this is a good guy that I met back long ago only to realize that we were from the same area in Georgia. now this makes two of my good friends that have gone to the dark side during the past few weeks. I have been pondering what would cause two perfectly good guys to convert and go to the other side, this would be like me a UM guy pulling for the Gators or an Alabama fan pulling for Auburn, it just doesn't happen. I know that both of these fine gentlemen did not drink the same water from the Coosa River.
> > > > > > > Wow, what is happening, next thing you know my dog will be looking at motorgliders and trying to convince me to get one, I told Eileen to change the dogs medication. So, the best thing about this whole scenario is that I will have to buy two less Christmas cards and save money on the postage.
> > > > > > > As for me I will keep flying that antique 27 and Eileen will stay with the 24 and hopefully the dog will recover.
> > > > > > > Enjoy those motorgliders my friends, call me if you need a tow, or come on down to Vero and we will tape those doors shut and go for a flight. Old Bob, The Purist
> > > > > No word from Mr. Fitch?
> Mr. Fitch, I certainly hope that you are enjoying the trip to Alaska and I hope that the boat doesn't develop a leak! You have once again skirted the issue that I stated that the motorglider was a threat to my revenue. I asked you to produce where I had stated that remark and even offered a deal that would require a penalty. You have continued to ignore the issue and not produce the facts. Me, on the other hand would have gladly gone away for 60 days as offered had I made the comments that you said that I did. Mr. Fitch, my experience speaks for itself, as I stated I have flown many gliders, including motorgliders and I certainly know the difference between Purist flights and Motorglider flights, it's like apples and oranges, they aren't the same. I am glad that I have captured your imagination. Old Bob, The Purist

Hey Not So Purist Bobby, here are your OWN words. You use the words "my revenue" whereas Jon clearly stated "your club's revenue":

Eric, I have flown with MG pilots, there is more to MG's than convenience, and you still ignore the opinion that there is a difference between the two paradigms. Yes, I do like enlightening you MG and sustainer guys, your skewed justification and lack of acknowledging the differences amuses me, I still laugh! Now at least the sustainer guys contribute to the club when they are towed, 40-60 bucks helps the club with the overall operating expenses. Does you club charge the self launch pilot for use of the field or do they just get in their self launch and depart and go back home for an early dinner and pack their ship away? I think that or club will start charging a field use for self launch gliders, say 15 bucks for each self launch departure, after all we must pay the rent and fuel bill for the tractor that mows the strip. Now I know that , "The Bum", is going to get bent out of shape on this idea, but if he comes to Vero I will pay the fee for his use of the field. Old Bob, The Purist

Tom

Re: It Gets Worse

<t6blq6$c7u$1@dont-email.me>

 copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/tech/article-flat.php?id=26934&group=rec.aviation.soaring#26934

 copy link   Newsgroups: rec.aviation.soaring
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!eternal-september.org!reader02.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: dcmaro...@earthlink.net (Dan Marotta)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.soaring
Subject: Re: It Gets Worse
Date: Sat, 21 May 2022 15:32:52 -0600
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
Lines: 159
Message-ID: <t6blq6$c7u$1@dont-email.me>
References: <1c49b238-4a77-469b-ac62-b0567a70456en@googlegroups.com>
<df7dac0e-e2bd-48dd-a617-bb9bcd346493n@googlegroups.com>
<fa193f6a-9ade-47f6-802c-f947bbef2e5cn@googlegroups.com>
<b8436a65-2a3c-429b-babd-614ffebf6bc3n@googlegroups.com>
<3f2e5dc3-e662-419c-9dd9-df7e185c2577n@googlegroups.com>
<15798844-2059-44af-9ff7-0927d946929cn@googlegroups.com>
<e193c9b3-2652-4305-9181-32b2f47c24f4n@googlegroups.com>
<0be12c2c-dd7a-4822-83e5-8aaec91bd8d7n@googlegroups.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64
Injection-Date: Sat, 21 May 2022 21:32:54 -0000 (UTC)
Injection-Info: reader02.eternal-september.org; posting-host="3e6bf1dfb8274019811b49a8f7a100c0";
logging-data="12542"; mail-complaints-to="abuse@eternal-september.org"; posting-account="U2FsdGVkX1/f5zWZaPJB/3CVU059S+DyaMc8MfGK9Iw="
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:91.0) Gecko/20100101
Thunderbird/91.8.1
Cancel-Lock: sha1:YfCc+aNS4mGsvN7l1Y5wWrtMYZU=
In-Reply-To: <0be12c2c-dd7a-4822-83e5-8aaec91bd8d7n@googlegroups.com>
Content-Language: en-US
 by: Dan Marotta - Sat, 21 May 2022 21:32 UTC

Well, I've tried to stay out of this, but it's becoming ridiculous (it
IS RAS after all)...
So, I copied the entire message and pasted it into a text file so that I
could search through it.  I found the word "revenue" used five times in
the entire 12 pages in the text file and the only time I found the
string, "my revenue" was when Ol' Bob asked Mr. Fitch to show him where
he allegedly said it.
So, please use the whole context of a phrase that you want to use
chastise someone.  Otherwise, you're just calling names and we should
have stopped doing that by the third grade.
Dan
5J
On 5/21/22 14:46, 2G wrote:
> On Thursday, May 19, 2022 at 10:34:41 AM UTC-7, youngbl...@gmail.com wrote:
>> On Thursday, May 19, 2022 at 11:19:53 AM UTC-4, jfitch wrote:
>>> Bob, I neither like nor dislike you, in fact I don’t think about you much at all. Your first post in this thread (one of many similar ones) may have been humorous, as was my first response. But by the third one you had descended into the same drivel, motorglider pilots lack the skill for cross country, aren’t Real Men, etc. That isn’t humorous, just false and insulting. Kinda like if I said you “purist” pilots require Viagra, because you can’t get it up without help.
>>>
>>> To then fault me for casting “dispersion” on you for merely repeating what you said is ironic. I know nothing of you or your club’s revenue, other than motorgliders are perceived as a threat to it (in your own words). You agenda you have made excruciatingly explicit. If you want to be liked, get a tow, smile smugly to yourself, and keep quiet about it. I will continue to completely discount any opinion you may have on motorglider cross country flight - and encourage others to do so - until you have gained at least some experience in them.
>>> On Saturday, May 14, 2022 at 5:01:33 AM UTC-7, youngbl...@gmail.com wrote:
>>>> On Friday, May 13, 2022 at 9:40:51 PM UTC-4, jfitch wrote:
>>>>> OK Bob, so now we have moved on from soaring and are arguing semantics. I’m on my boat, enroute to Alaska and really don’t have the time and bandwidth to keep this up. Ramy, I never called Bob greedy, and don’t think of him that way. He is however perfectly willing to cast derision and ridicule on a large class of his fellow pilots, repeatedly and without respite or subject knowledge.
>>>>>
>>>>> The sentence we are apparently arguing the semantics of (on a soaring site) is:
>>>>>
>>>>> “A motorglider is not less expensive than paying for tows - rather it costs more than all the tows you are ever likely to get - but the money ends up in some one other than Bob's pocket.”
>>>>>
>>>>> Can you point me to a single word in that sentence which is factually untrue? Surely you do not get a kickback from Schleicher or Schemp or Jonkers for every motorglider they sell? Now metaphorically, the club in that statement - and in Bob’s statement - is Bob’s pocket, or whoever is running the tow service, possessive nouns notwithstanding. Tows cannot contribute to the club or the operation unless the tow fees flow to the club or operation.
>>>>>
>>>>> This is all of course ridiculous. The ridiculousness started with Bob’s opening post, one of many tiresome ones on this subject. Get over it Bob. We know how you feel. We just don’t feel the same. You aren’t changing anyone’s mind.
>>>> Mr. Fitch, in all honesty my post are generated as humor, not attempting to change anyone's mind, and I certainly am qualified to cast my own opinions regarding the differences between MG and purist flights. What you and the choir have attempted to do is cast dispersion regarding revenue and my personal agenda. You should be very cognizant of your intentions, it is just your dislike for me that drives your agenda. I have motorglider friends, my very best friend has gone over to the dark side and we tease each other almost daily as he calls me from the sky telling me how much battery life he has remaining after launch and I reply with something like,"You Will Never Be Late For Dinner". Get a grip on things Mr. Fitch, life is too short and a few laughs will go a long way in helping you along the way. As I stated in the last line of the initial thread, Enjoy those motorgliders my friends, call me if you ever neeed a tow, come to Vero and fly. Old Bob, The Purist
>>>>> On Friday, May 13, 2022 at 2:31:19 PM UTC-7, youngbl...@gmail.com wrote:
>>>>>> On Friday, April 29, 2022 at 1:17:02 AM UTC-4, jfitch wrote:
>>>>>>> Bob, you can't stop progress, no matter how hard you try. But it is good to see someone getting along with muskets, spats, dial telephone land lines, wind up watches, lava lamps, 3-on-the-column shifts, and string towed gliders. So my friend, come out here and take a flight - oh wait a minute, you'll need a tow plane and we are fresh out......
>>>>>>> On Thursday, April 28, 2022 at 5:20:21 PM UTC-7, youngbl...@gmail.com wrote:
>>>>>>>> Right when things are somewhat calm and the snowbirds are headed back up north the weather finally gets good and we were able to get a few good glider flights in the books. The motorglider drivers up at Seminole had some nice flights and discovered that the Florida spring had arrived a bit late.
>>>>>>>> Now comes the disturbing news, my fellow glider pilot and purist informed me that he had sold his 27 and was taking delivery of a motorglider. Now this is a good guy that I met back long ago only to realize that we were from the same area in Georgia. now this makes two of my good friends that have gone to the dark side during the past few weeks. I have been pondering what would cause two perfectly good guys to convert and go to the other side, this would be like me a UM guy pulling for the Gators or an Alabama fan pulling for Auburn, it just doesn't happen. I know that both of these fine gentlemen did not drink the same water from the Coosa River.
>>>>>>>> Wow, what is happening, next thing you know my dog will be looking at motorgliders and trying to convince me to get one, I told Eileen to change the dogs medication. So, the best thing about this whole scenario is that I will have to buy two less Christmas cards and save money on the postage.
>>>>>>>> As for me I will keep flying that antique 27 and Eileen will stay with the 24 and hopefully the dog will recover.
>>>>>>>> Enjoy those motorgliders my friends, call me if you need a tow, or come on down to Vero and we will tape those doors shut and go for a flight. Old Bob, The Purist
>>>>>> No word from Mr. Fitch?
>> Mr. Fitch, I certainly hope that you are enjoying the trip to Alaska and I hope that the boat doesn't develop a leak! You have once again skirted the issue that I stated that the motorglider was a threat to my revenue. I asked you to produce where I had stated that remark and even offered a deal that would require a penalty. You have continued to ignore the issue and not produce the facts. Me, on the other hand would have gladly gone away for 60 days as offered had I made the comments that you said that I did. Mr. Fitch, my experience speaks for itself, as I stated I have flown many gliders, including motorgliders and I certainly know the difference between Purist flights and Motorglider flights, it's like apples and oranges, they aren't the same. I am glad that I have captured your imagination. Old Bob, The Purist
> Hey Not So Purist Bobby, here are your OWN words. You use the words "my revenue" whereas Jon clearly stated "your club's revenue":
>
> Eric, I have flown with MG pilots, there is more to MG's than convenience, and you still ignore the opinion that there is a difference between the two paradigms. Yes, I do like enlightening you MG and sustainer guys, your skewed justification and lack of acknowledging the differences amuses me, I still laugh! Now at least the sustainer guys contribute to the club when they are towed, 40-60 bucks helps the club with the overall operating expenses. Does you club charge the self launch pilot for use of the field or do they just get in their self launch and depart and go back home for an early dinner and pack their ship away? I think that or club will start charging a field use for self launch gliders, say 15 bucks for each self launch departure, after all we must pay the rent and fuel bill for the tractor that mows the strip. Now I know that , "The Bum", is going to get bent out of shape on this idea, but if he comes to Vero I will pay the fee for his use of the field. Old Bob, The Purist
>
> Tom

Re: It Gets Worse

<1739b54b-036e-4b4e-ba7f-c90719f5b0a1n@googlegroups.com>

 copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/tech/article-flat.php?id=26935&group=rec.aviation.soaring#26935

 copy link   Newsgroups: rec.aviation.soaring
X-Received: by 2002:ac8:5b4d:0:b0:2f9:3470:6787 with SMTP id n13-20020ac85b4d000000b002f934706787mr394276qtw.669.1653182656294;
Sat, 21 May 2022 18:24:16 -0700 (PDT)
X-Received: by 2002:a81:714:0:b0:2ff:a655:6aae with SMTP id
20-20020a810714000000b002ffa6556aaemr6186519ywh.421.1653182656045; Sat, 21
May 2022 18:24:16 -0700 (PDT)
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!usenet.goja.nl.eu.org!3.eu.feeder.erje.net!feeder.erje.net!proxad.net!feeder1-2.proxad.net!209.85.160.216.MISMATCH!news-out.google.com!nntp.google.com!postnews.google.com!google-groups.googlegroups.com!not-for-mail
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.soaring
Date: Sat, 21 May 2022 18:24:15 -0700 (PDT)
In-Reply-To: <t6blq6$c7u$1@dont-email.me>
Injection-Info: google-groups.googlegroups.com; posting-host=2600:6c54:5340:1aa4:f817:1e3f:8705:8e77;
posting-account=igyo_woAAAAxdxQHjAB2cSS7_KQghTOv
NNTP-Posting-Host: 2600:6c54:5340:1aa4:f817:1e3f:8705:8e77
References: <1c49b238-4a77-469b-ac62-b0567a70456en@googlegroups.com>
<df7dac0e-e2bd-48dd-a617-bb9bcd346493n@googlegroups.com> <fa193f6a-9ade-47f6-802c-f947bbef2e5cn@googlegroups.com>
<b8436a65-2a3c-429b-babd-614ffebf6bc3n@googlegroups.com> <3f2e5dc3-e662-419c-9dd9-df7e185c2577n@googlegroups.com>
<15798844-2059-44af-9ff7-0927d946929cn@googlegroups.com> <e193c9b3-2652-4305-9181-32b2f47c24f4n@googlegroups.com>
<0be12c2c-dd7a-4822-83e5-8aaec91bd8d7n@googlegroups.com> <t6blq6$c7u$1@dont-email.me>
User-Agent: G2/1.0
MIME-Version: 1.0
Message-ID: <1739b54b-036e-4b4e-ba7f-c90719f5b0a1n@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: It Gets Worse
From: soar2mor...@yahoo.com (2G)
Injection-Date: Sun, 22 May 2022 01:24:16 +0000
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
 by: 2G - Sun, 22 May 2022 01:24 UTC

On Saturday, May 21, 2022 at 2:32:58 PM UTC-7, Dan Marotta wrote:
> Well, I've tried to stay out of this, but it's becoming ridiculous (it
> IS RAS after all)...
>
> So, I copied the entire message and pasted it into a text file so that I
> could search through it. I found the word "revenue" used five times in
> the entire 12 pages in the text file and the only time I found the
> string, "my revenue" was when Ol' Bob asked Mr. Fitch to show him where
> he allegedly said it.
>
> So, please use the whole context of a phrase that you want to use
> chastise someone. Otherwise, you're just calling names and we should
> have stopped doing that by the third grade.
>
> Dan
> 5J
> On 5/21/22 14:46, 2G wrote:
> > On Thursday, May 19, 2022 at 10:34:41 AM UTC-7, youngbl...@gmail.com wrote:
> >> On Thursday, May 19, 2022 at 11:19:53 AM UTC-4, jfitch wrote:
> >>> Bob, I neither like nor dislike you, in fact I don’t think about you much at all. Your first post in this thread (one of many similar ones) may have been humorous, as was my first response. But by the third one you had descended into the same drivel, motorglider pilots lack the skill for cross country, aren’t Real Men, etc. That isn’t humorous, just false and insulting. Kinda like if I said you “purist” pilots require Viagra, because you can’t get it up without help..
> >>>
> >>> To then fault me for casting “dispersion” on you for merely repeating what you said is ironic. I know nothing of you or your club’s revenue, other than motorgliders are perceived as a threat to it (in your own words). You agenda you have made excruciatingly explicit. If you want to be liked, get a tow, smile smugly to yourself, and keep quiet about it. I will continue to completely discount any opinion you may have on motorglider cross country flight - and encourage others to do so - until you have gained at least some experience in them.
> >>> On Saturday, May 14, 2022 at 5:01:33 AM UTC-7, youngbl...@gmail.com wrote:
> >>>> On Friday, May 13, 2022 at 9:40:51 PM UTC-4, jfitch wrote:
> >>>>> OK Bob, so now we have moved on from soaring and are arguing semantics. I’m on my boat, enroute to Alaska and really don’t have the time and bandwidth to keep this up. Ramy, I never called Bob greedy, and don’t think of him that way. He is however perfectly willing to cast derision and ridicule on a large class of his fellow pilots, repeatedly and without respite or subject knowledge.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> The sentence we are apparently arguing the semantics of (on a soaring site) is:
> >>>>>
> >>>>> “A motorglider is not less expensive than paying for tows - rather it costs more than all the tows you are ever likely to get - but the money ends up in some one other than Bob's pocket.”
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Can you point me to a single word in that sentence which is factually untrue? Surely you do not get a kickback from Schleicher or Schemp or Jonkers for every motorglider they sell? Now metaphorically, the club in that statement - and in Bob’s statement - is Bob’s pocket, or whoever is running the tow service, possessive nouns notwithstanding. Tows cannot contribute to the club or the operation unless the tow fees flow to the club or operation.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> This is all of course ridiculous. The ridiculousness started with Bob’s opening post, one of many tiresome ones on this subject. Get over it Bob. We know how you feel. We just don’t feel the same. You aren’t changing anyone’s mind.
> >>>> Mr. Fitch, in all honesty my post are generated as humor, not attempting to change anyone's mind, and I certainly am qualified to cast my own opinions regarding the differences between MG and purist flights. What you and the choir have attempted to do is cast dispersion regarding revenue and my personal agenda. You should be very cognizant of your intentions, it is just your dislike for me that drives your agenda. I have motorglider friends, my very best friend has gone over to the dark side and we tease each other almost daily as he calls me from the sky telling me how much battery life he has remaining after launch and I reply with something like,"You Will Never Be Late For Dinner". Get a grip on things Mr. Fitch, life is too short and a few laughs will go a long way in helping you along the way. As I stated in the last line of the initial thread, Enjoy those motorgliders my friends, call me if you ever neeed a tow, come to Vero and fly. Old Bob, The Purist
> >>>>> On Friday, May 13, 2022 at 2:31:19 PM UTC-7, youngbl...@gmail.com wrote:
> >>>>>> On Friday, April 29, 2022 at 1:17:02 AM UTC-4, jfitch wrote:
> >>>>>>> Bob, you can't stop progress, no matter how hard you try. But it is good to see someone getting along with muskets, spats, dial telephone land lines, wind up watches, lava lamps, 3-on-the-column shifts, and string towed gliders. So my friend, come out here and take a flight - oh wait a minute, you'll need a tow plane and we are fresh out......
> >>>>>>> On Thursday, April 28, 2022 at 5:20:21 PM UTC-7, youngbl...@gmail..com wrote:
> >>>>>>>> Right when things are somewhat calm and the snowbirds are headed back up north the weather finally gets good and we were able to get a few good glider flights in the books. The motorglider drivers up at Seminole had some nice flights and discovered that the Florida spring had arrived a bit late.
> >>>>>>>> Now comes the disturbing news, my fellow glider pilot and purist informed me that he had sold his 27 and was taking delivery of a motorglider. Now this is a good guy that I met back long ago only to realize that we were from the same area in Georgia. now this makes two of my good friends that have gone to the dark side during the past few weeks. I have been pondering what would cause two perfectly good guys to convert and go to the other side, this would be like me a UM guy pulling for the Gators or an Alabama fan pulling for Auburn, it just doesn't happen. I know that both of these fine gentlemen did not drink the same water from the Coosa River.
> >>>>>>>> Wow, what is happening, next thing you know my dog will be looking at motorgliders and trying to convince me to get one, I told Eileen to change the dogs medication. So, the best thing about this whole scenario is that I will have to buy two less Christmas cards and save money on the postage.
> >>>>>>>> As for me I will keep flying that antique 27 and Eileen will stay with the 24 and hopefully the dog will recover.
> >>>>>>>> Enjoy those motorgliders my friends, call me if you need a tow, or come on down to Vero and we will tape those doors shut and go for a flight. Old Bob, The Purist
> >>>>>> No word from Mr. Fitch?
> >> Mr. Fitch, I certainly hope that you are enjoying the trip to Alaska and I hope that the boat doesn't develop a leak! You have once again skirted the issue that I stated that the motorglider was a threat to my revenue. I asked you to produce where I had stated that remark and even offered a deal that would require a penalty. You have continued to ignore the issue and not produce the facts. Me, on the other hand would have gladly gone away for 60 days as offered had I made the comments that you said that I did. Mr. Fitch, my experience speaks for itself, as I stated I have flown many gliders, including motorgliders and I certainly know the difference between Purist flights and Motorglider flights, it's like apples and oranges, they aren't the same. I am glad that I have captured your imagination. Old Bob, The Purist
> > Hey Not So Purist Bobby, here are your OWN words. You use the words "my revenue" whereas Jon clearly stated "your club's revenue":
> >
> > Eric, I have flown with MG pilots, there is more to MG's than convenience, and you still ignore the opinion that there is a difference between the two paradigms. Yes, I do like enlightening you MG and sustainer guys, your skewed justification and lack of acknowledging the differences amuses me, I still laugh! Now at least the sustainer guys contribute to the club when they are towed, 40-60 bucks helps the club with the overall operating expenses. Does you club charge the self launch pilot for use of the field or do they just get in their self launch and depart and go back home for an early dinner and pack their ship away? I think that or club will start charging a field use for self launch gliders, say 15 bucks for each self launch departure, after all we must pay the rent and fuel bill for the tractor that mows the strip. Now I know that , "The Bum", is going to get bent out of shape on this idea, but if he comes to Vero I will pay the fee for his use of the field. Old Bob, The Purist
> >
> > Tom

I clearly indicated that Jon used the words "your club's revenue", so if Not So Purist Bobby has a beef he should have read Jon's post more accurately, or at least read it.

Tom

Pages:123456
server_pubkey.txt

rocksolid light 0.9.7
clearnet tor