Excluding banner tow pilots, just gliders only, how many would you guess there are? Old Bob, The Purist

I think I was towing before there was such a thing as an endorsement. I
don't think I've ever had one but it doesn't matter; I retired from
towing several years ago.

Dan
5J

On 8/11/22 14:17, youngbl...@gmail.com wrote:
> Excluding banner tow pilots, just gliders only, how many would you guess there are? Old Bob, The Purist

On Thursday, August 11, 2022 at 4:17:07 PM UTC-4, youngbl...@gmail.com wrote:
> Excluding banner tow pilots, just gliders only, how many would you guess there are? Old Bob, The Purist

Not enough.
UH

On Thursday, August 11, 2022 at 5:12:00 PM UTC-4, Dan Marotta wrote:
> I think I was towing before there was such a thing as an endorsement. I
> don't think I've ever had one but it doesn't matter; I retired from
> towing several years ago.
>
> Dan
> 5J
> On 8/11/22 14:17, youngbl...@gmail.com wrote:
> > Excluding banner tow pilots, just gliders only, how many would you guess there are? Old Bob, The Purist
I flew motorgliders before there was an endorsement, I wont do that again either! Old Bob, The Purist

Self launching gliders and gyro planes are the only endorsements in my
logbook. I was late coming to a self launcher and later to gyros.

Dan
5J

On 8/11/22 16:47, youngbl...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Thursday, August 11, 2022 at 5:12:00 PM UTC-4, Dan Marotta wrote:
>> I think I was towing before there was such a thing as an endorsement. I
>> don't think I've ever had one but it doesn't matter; I retired from
>> towing several years ago.
>>
>> Dan
>> 5J
>> On 8/11/22 14:17, youngbl...@gmail.com wrote:
>>> Excluding banner tow pilots, just gliders only, how many would you guess there are? Old Bob, The Purist
> I flew motorgliders before there was an endorsement, I wont do that again either! Old Bob, The Purist

While it varies a lot, I think the typical club ratio of active tow pilots to members is approximately 1 to 12. A 50 member club would have about 6 tow pilots, a 100 member club would have about 12 active tow pilots. So, you might be able to figure it from that. But that's just a ballpark estimate.. Commercial operations would use less tug pilots but flying a lot more.
ROY

On Friday, August 12, 2022 at 1:51:31 PM UTC-4, Roy B. wrote:
> While it varies a lot, I think the typical club ratio of active tow pilots to members is approximately 1 to 12. A 50 member club would have about 6 tow pilots, a 100 member club would have about 12 active tow pilots. So, you might be able to figure it from that. But that's just a ballpark estimate.. Commercial operations would use less tug pilots but flying a lot more.
> ROY
I would agree with that estimate, and I would think that California, Texas, Arizona and Florida would have the most based on flying sites and activity.. Would 500 be a good guess? Old Bob, The Purist

How many are in compliance with the 24 month rule to keep the endorsement and are legal to tow? In my visits to clubs around the USA conducting Free Site Surveys for the Soaring Safety Foundations (129 surveys so far) I have found some towpilots who have not met the 24 month tow endorsement recurrency found in FAR 61.69: 3 actual or simulated tows WHILE ACCOMPANIED BY another current endorsed towpilot in a two seat airplane (does not need to be in a "towplane") OR 3 launches in a glider by aerotow as Pilot In Command. Some towpilots are not glider rated so the "accompanied by" option is needed to stay legal. Even if the towpilot has made 1,000 solo tows in the past 24 months may not mean they are in compliance. A reference for training towpilots and staying current is my inexpensive and brief "Towpilot Manual" found at www.soarbooks.com
Be sure to review all of the SSA Standard Signals and discuss the towpilot willingness to release a glider the instant it begins to "kite" on tow. The British experiment aloft found that in 3 seconds the towpilot is in jeopardy of being tipped downward into the ground. Reference the recent towpilot fatal kite accident in Byron, California. The photo sequence tells the horrifying story of how fast this can happen. All glider pilots must be trained or re-trained regarding "normal" (not the so-called "high") tow position. Towplane wheels on or above the horizon is a place to start. Some clubs in the USA have adopted the "low tow" position for added safety as in Australia. Glider in low-tow is best for cross-country retrieves when the towplane must eventually level off en route. A FREE Soaring Safety Foundation (SSF) "Site Survey" is by your invitation by contacting me to discuss dates for a friendly observation of club training, procedures and operations, then we discuss options for maintaining a good "Safety Culture." A discussion of tow release mechanisms is in another thread in this newsgroup.

On Thursday, August 11, 2022 at 3:48:02 PM UTC-6, Hank Nixon wrote:
> On Thursday, August 11, 2022 at 4:17:07 PM UTC-4, youngbl...@gmail.com wrote:
> > Excluding banner tow pilots, just gliders only, how many would you guess there are? Old Bob, The Purist
> Not enough.
> UH
One SSA chapter recruited three tow pilots using the Aviation section of CraigsList and also attracted new members through a glider pilots ground school offering in the winter. The internal links are no longer active, as the ads have lapsed but the content is duplicated in the document. Perhaps someone can suggest answers to questions asked at the end.
More info here:
https://soaringchapters.org/operations/craigslist.pdf

On Saturday, August 13, 2022 at 9:44:29 AM UTC-4, Burt Compton - Marfa Gliders, west Texas wrote:
> How many are in compliance with the 24 month rule to keep the endorsement and are legal to tow? In my visits to clubs around the USA conducting Free Site Surveys for the Soaring Safety Foundations (129 surveys so far) I have found some towpilots who have not met the 24 month tow endorsement recurrency found in FAR 61.69: 3 actual or simulated tows WHILE ACCOMPANIED BY another current endorsed towpilot in a two seat airplane (does not need to be in a "towplane") OR 3 launches in a glider by aerotow as Pilot In Command. Some towpilots are not glider rated so the "accompanied by" option is needed to stay legal. Even if the towpilot has made 1,000 solo tows in the past 24 months may not mean they are in compliance. A reference for training towpilots and staying current is my inexpensive and brief "Towpilot Manual" found at www.soarbooks.com
> Be sure to review all of the SSA Standard Signals and discuss the towpilot willingness to release a glider the instant it begins to "kite" on tow. The British experiment aloft found that in 3 seconds the towpilot is in jeopardy of being tipped downward into the ground. Reference the recent towpilot fatal kite accident in Byron, California. The photo sequence tells the horrifying story of how fast this can happen. All glider pilots must be trained or re-trained regarding "normal" (not the so-called "high") tow position.. Towplane wheels on or above the horizon is a place to start. Some clubs in the USA have adopted the "low tow" position for added safety as in Australia. Glider in low-tow is best for cross-country retrieves when the towplane must eventually level off en route. A FREE Soaring Safety Foundation (SSF) "Site Survey" is by your invitation by contacting me to discuss dates for a friendly observation of club training, procedures and operations, then we discuss options for maintaining a good "Safety Culture." A discussion of tow release mechanisms is in another thread in this newsgroup.
Burt, I wish it were that easy to find competent tow pilots, long gone are the days of Pablo, Bennie, Alfonso and Scotty. Those were the good old days, brings back some fond memories. Old Bob, The Purist

On Monday, August 15, 2022 at 12:05:06 PM UTC-7, youngbl...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Saturday, August 13, 2022 at 9:44:29 AM UTC-4, Burt Compton - Marfa Gliders, west Texas wrote:
> > How many are in compliance with the 24 month rule to keep the endorsement and are legal to tow? In my visits to clubs around the USA conducting Free Site Surveys for the Soaring Safety Foundations (129 surveys so far) I have found some towpilots who have not met the 24 month tow endorsement recurrency found in FAR 61.69: 3 actual or simulated tows WHILE ACCOMPANIED BY another current endorsed towpilot in a two seat airplane (does not need to be in a "towplane") OR 3 launches in a glider by aerotow as Pilot In Command. Some towpilots are not glider rated so the "accompanied by" option is needed to stay legal. Even if the towpilot has made 1,000 solo tows in the past 24 months may not mean they are in compliance. A reference for training towpilots and staying current is my inexpensive and brief "Towpilot Manual" found at www.soarbooks.com
> > Be sure to review all of the SSA Standard Signals and discuss the towpilot willingness to release a glider the instant it begins to "kite" on tow. The British experiment aloft found that in 3 seconds the towpilot is in jeopardy of being tipped downward into the ground. Reference the recent towpilot fatal kite accident in Byron, California. The photo sequence tells the horrifying story of how fast this can happen. All glider pilots must be trained or re-trained regarding "normal" (not the so-called "high") tow position. Towplane wheels on or above the horizon is a place to start. Some clubs in the USA have adopted the "low tow" position for added safety as in Australia. Glider in low-tow is best for cross-country retrieves when the towplane must eventually level off en route. A FREE Soaring Safety Foundation (SSF) "Site Survey" is by your invitation by contacting me to discuss dates for a friendly observation of club training, procedures and operations, then we discuss options for maintaining a good "Safety Culture." A discussion of tow release mechanisms is in another thread in this newsgroup.
> Burt, I wish it were that easy to find competent tow pilots, long gone are the days of Pablo, Bennie, Alfonso and Scotty. Those were the good old days, brings back some fond memories. Old Bob, The Purist

Less one for sure. I had a couple close calls, no more.

On Monday, August 15, 2022 at 3:05:06 PM UTC-4, youngbl...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Saturday, August 13, 2022 at 9:44:29 AM UTC-4, Burt Compton - Marfa Gliders, west Texas wrote:
> > How many are in compliance with the 24 month rule to keep the endorsement and are legal to tow? In my visits to clubs around the USA conducting Free Site Surveys for the Soaring Safety Foundations (129 surveys so far) I have found some towpilots who have not met the 24 month tow endorsement recurrency found in FAR 61.69: 3 actual or simulated tows WHILE ACCOMPANIED BY another current endorsed towpilot in a two seat airplane (does not need to be in a "towplane") OR 3 launches in a glider by aerotow as Pilot In Command. Some towpilots are not glider rated so the "accompanied by" option is needed to stay legal. Even if the towpilot has made 1,000 solo tows in the past 24 months may not mean they are in compliance. A reference for training towpilots and staying current is my inexpensive and brief "Towpilot Manual" found at www.soarbooks.com
> > Be sure to review all of the SSA Standard Signals and discuss the towpilot willingness to release a glider the instant it begins to "kite" on tow. The British experiment aloft found that in 3 seconds the towpilot is in jeopardy of being tipped downward into the ground. Reference the recent towpilot fatal kite accident in Byron, California. The photo sequence tells the horrifying story of how fast this can happen. All glider pilots must be trained or re-trained regarding "normal" (not the so-called "high") tow position. Towplane wheels on or above the horizon is a place to start. Some clubs in the USA have adopted the "low tow" position for added safety as in Australia. Glider in low-tow is best for cross-country retrieves when the towplane must eventually level off en route. A FREE Soaring Safety Foundation (SSF) "Site Survey" is by your invitation by contacting me to discuss dates for a friendly observation of club training, procedures and operations, then we discuss options for maintaining a good "Safety Culture." A discussion of tow release mechanisms is in another thread in this newsgroup.
> Burt, I wish it were that easy to find competent tow pilots, long gone are the days of Pablo, Bennie, Alfonso and Scotty. Those were the good old days, brings back some fond memories. Old Bob, The Purist

"The British experiment aloft found that in 3 seconds the towpilot is in jeopardy of being tipped downward into the ground." 3 Seconds? Believe me, it can happen in the wink of an eye with a thoroughly incompetent, poorly trained pilot on tow. I've had the slowly evolving type of kite with sufficient altitude on my side but that abrupt, split second nose down situation is a different story all together. Make sure you have the most advanced, well engineered release available, a release handle up where you can grab it easily NOT down on the floor and with enough mechanical advantage to get the job done. If these conditions don't exist. Walk the fooK away. Don't feel bad leaving the operation '' in a bad situation." They would do the same to you, I assure you.

Walt Connelly