RAS has been and is an excellent source of information for all things soaring. It has a great community with a lot of experience. But I think the interface is old and outdated and there isn't a central repository for documents (manuals, for example). There's also no ability to share media unless you provide a link.

I've been working on a project to launch a new soaring website that includes a forum. Here's a few of the pros and cons that I think exist (this is certainly not an exhaustive list):

Pros:
- Free
-- First and foremost, this is an opportunity to give back to the soaring community. No registration fees, no requesting of personal information, no "tier" levels for "premium" content. Just register and enjoy.

- Modern interface through a forum with easy navigation
- Ability to post media/pictures
- Ability to post documents

- Club-based sub-forums
-- If your club doesn't have an internal communication platform then you could have one on this site. If you want it locked so only club members can view it, that can be setup too. Once again, this is free. There is no charge to clubs, no requirements, no strings. Just an option if clubs want a way to communicate with each other.

- No spam
-- RAS has spam posts that appear regularly so this would eliminate that. It's not a huge distraction but it can be annoying when half the page is filled with porn spam messages

Cons:
- Resistance to change
-- I'm aware that many are very comfortable with the current RAS and will resist a new version. I think a modern interface will go a long way with younger pilots who are used to more modern interfaces.

- Learning a new system
-- I'm also aware some many be hesitant to try and learn something new. Perhaps everyone here is already part of other forums (and many probably are!) so this may be irrelevant, but having to register for another site can be a pain.

Soaring is a great sport and I want to see it grow. I'd appreciate your input and feedback on this. I'm open to suggestions if you have any. If you're interested in helping, let me know that too. We'll probably need a few moderators as we grow.

On 11/19/2022 2:05 PM, Jon wrote:
> RAS has been and is an excellent source of information for all things soaring. It has a great community with a lot of experience. But I think the interface is old and outdated and there isn't a central repository for documents (manuals, for example). There's also no ability to share media unless you provide a link.
>
> I've been working on a project to launch a new soaring website that includes a forum. Here's a few of the pros and cons that I think exist (this is certainly not an exhaustive list):
>
> Pros:
> - Free
> -- First and foremost, this is an opportunity to give back to the soaring community. No registration fees, no requesting of personal information, no "tier" levels for "premium" content. Just register and enjoy.
>
> - Modern interface through a forum with easy navigation
> - Ability to post media/pictures
> - Ability to post documents
>
> - Club-based sub-forums
> -- If your club doesn't have an internal communication platform then you could have one on this site. If you want it locked so only club members can view it, that can be setup too. Once again, this is free. There is no charge to clubs, no requirements, no strings. Just an option if clubs want a way to communicate with each other.
>
> - No spam
> -- RAS has spam posts that appear regularly so this would eliminate that. It's not a huge distraction but it can be annoying when half the page is filled with porn spam messages
>
> Cons:
> - Resistance to change
> -- I'm aware that many are very comfortable with the current RAS and will resist a new version. I think a modern interface will go a long way with younger pilots who are used to more modern interfaces.
>
> - Learning a new system
> -- I'm also aware some many be hesitant to try and learn something new. Perhaps everyone here is already part of other forums (and many probably are!) so this may be irrelevant, but having to register for another site can be a pain.
>
> Soaring is a great sport and I want to see it grow. I'd appreciate your input and feedback on this. I'm open to suggestions if you have any. If you're interested in helping, let me know that too. We'll probably need a few moderators as we grow.
>

Splitting the online world into many slivers is also a "con". Having
one place to go to is an advantage. Up to a point: if the old is too
painful then in with the new. I switched from OLC to Weglide for
posting my flights since last year, the experiment has shown that my
buddies rarely go look there.

One thing I do on RAS is search for old postings on a topic I'm looking
into. The Google web interface to RAS does a decent job of searching,
and has the old postings from at least 20 years archived and searchable.
That's very useful IMO. Any new forum should try and offer good
search capabilities. Of course it is hard to promise 20+ years
longevity to any new venture in today's tech. Especially when "free"
(possibly meaning hosted on some here-today-gone-tomorrow server). Even
Yahoo Groups as a whole - a much larger enterprise - went poof a while
back, when they discovered that it wasn't making them money.

On Saturday, November 19, 2022 at 12:05:27 PM UTC-7, Jon wrote:
> RAS has been and is an excellent source of information for all things soaring. It has a great community with a lot of experience. But I think the interface is old and outdated and there isn't a central repository for documents (manuals, for example). There's also no ability to share media unless you provide a link.
>
> I've been working on a project to launch a new soaring website that includes a forum. Here's a few of the pros and cons that I think exist (this is certainly not an exhaustive list):
>
> Pros:
> - Free
> -- First and foremost, this is an opportunity to give back to the soaring community. No registration fees, no requesting of personal information, no "tier" levels for "premium" content. Just register and enjoy.
>
> - Modern interface through a forum with easy navigation
> - Ability to post media/pictures
> - Ability to post documents
>
> - Club-based sub-forums
> -- If your club doesn't have an internal communication platform then you could have one on this site. If you want it locked so only club members can view it, that can be setup too. Once again, this is free. There is no charge to clubs, no requirements, no strings. Just an option if clubs want a way to communicate with each other.
>
> - No spam
> -- RAS has spam posts that appear regularly so this would eliminate that. It's not a huge distraction but it can be annoying when half the page is filled with porn spam messages
>
> Cons:
> - Resistance to change
> -- I'm aware that many are very comfortable with the current RAS and will resist a new version. I think a modern interface will go a long way with younger pilots who are used to more modern interfaces.
>
> - Learning a new system
> -- I'm also aware some many be hesitant to try and learn something new. Perhaps everyone here is already part of other forums (and many probably are!) so this may be irrelevant, but having to register for another site can be a pain.
>
> Soaring is a great sport and I want to see it grow. I'd appreciate your input and feedback on this. I'm open to suggestions if you have any. If you're interested in helping, let me know that too. We'll probably need a few moderators as we grow.

Been done, gone away. Search for silentflight.com in this group and on archive.org. It was a good effort, but the cost of the server and bandwidth did it in IIRC and the archive is lost AFAICT. When Yahoo groups was being shut down, groups.io allowed transfers, free at first, $110/group in a short while, then $250/group later on. The cost of cloud hosting is a reality. USENET, using the bascially headless NNTP protocol worked fine, but the cost of the servers and bandwidth also caused many ISPs to unload that burden. Google created groups and added the USENET into the mix, though there are still USENET servers on the net. Subscription services, such as SuperNews work I guess, but are kind of draconian in their suspension rules. Some who post here might not last on SuperNews. The USENET is a interesting place yet some trolls can ruin groups. Happened to rec.aviation.homebuilt and it never recovered. Yet, I prefer the broadly available content and resources of the USENET over most forums, though there are specialty groups on groups.io, private groups on Google groups that are easy to use. Yet, none will replace the USENET. Don't think you can beat it. Just my $0.02. Growing soaring is the goal of many. There are waiting lists for training in clubs, chapters, and at commercial operations all over the United States, where we need CFI-G's. This should translate into an opportunity for those with a passion to introduce people into the sport at the grass roots level..

On Saturday, November 19, 2022 at 2:05:27 PM UTC-5, Jon wrote:
> RAS has been and is an excellent source of information for all things soaring. It has a great community with a lot of experience. But I think the interface is old and outdated and there isn't a central repository for documents (manuals, for example). There's also no ability to share media unless you provide a link.
>
> I've been working on a project to launch a new soaring website that includes a forum. Here's a few of the pros and cons that I think exist (this is certainly not an exhaustive list):
>
> Pros:
> - Free
> -- First and foremost, this is an opportunity to give back to the soaring community. No registration fees, no requesting of personal information, no "tier" levels for "premium" content. Just register and enjoy.
>
> - Modern interface through a forum with easy navigation
> - Ability to post media/pictures
> - Ability to post documents
>
> - Club-based sub-forums
> -- If your club doesn't have an internal communication platform then you could have one on this site. If you want it locked so only club members can view it, that can be setup too. Once again, this is free. There is no charge to clubs, no requirements, no strings. Just an option if clubs want a way to communicate with each other.
>
> - No spam
> -- RAS has spam posts that appear regularly so this would eliminate that. It's not a huge distraction but it can be annoying when half the page is filled with porn spam messages
>
> Cons:
> - Resistance to change
> -- I'm aware that many are very comfortable with the current RAS and will resist a new version. I think a modern interface will go a long way with younger pilots who are used to more modern interfaces.
>
> - Learning a new system
> -- I'm also aware some many be hesitant to try and learn something new. Perhaps everyone here is already part of other forums (and many probably are!) so this may be irrelevant, but having to register for another site can be a pain.
>
> Soaring is a great sport and I want to see it grow. I'd appreciate your input and feedback on this. I'm open to suggestions if you have any. If you're interested in helping, let me know that too. We'll probably need a few moderators as we grow.

No interest
UH

This would be wonderful. Those in my circle generally see RAS as a mixed bag at best, and a toxic cesspool at worst. There are many luminaries here, but there are far too many blowhards who mistake their opinions as universal facts. The signal to noise ratio here is pretty bad.

As a result of these loud voices, RAS is mostly seen as a half-dozen US pilots shitting on the world. This, despite the fact that the Americans are not the movers and shakers in the soaring world.

People generally aren't excited to engage on an un-moderated platform dominated by a group of pilots who hold racists, misogynists, and neo-nazis in high esteem. Our young pilots don't want to be groomed by these "elders".

So as awesome as this would be, IMHO you've got your work cut out for you. The soaring pilots of the next generation have already found online forums in their native tongues. You have to find a way to grow your target audience beyond either the people who cause the problem on RAS, or the people who have found a way to persevere here despite them.

In a word, NO.
Usenet works just fine and, if one will use an email reader, he can
block trolls, search topics, post pictures, etc. What I saw in the
initial question was "moderators". Don't need 'em, don't want 'em.
But didn't RAS Prime get started on Google Groups? What do we need
another one for?
Dan
5J
On 11/20/22 11:03, Frank Whiteley wrote:
> On Saturday, November 19, 2022 at 12:05:27 PM UTC-7, Jon wrote:
>> RAS has been and is an excellent source of information for all things soaring. It has a great community with a lot of experience. But I think the interface is old and outdated and there isn't a central repository for documents (manuals, for example). There's also no ability to share media unless you provide a link.
>>
>> I've been working on a project to launch a new soaring website that includes a forum. Here's a few of the pros and cons that I think exist (this is certainly not an exhaustive list):
>>
>> Pros:
>> - Free
>> -- First and foremost, this is an opportunity to give back to the soaring community. No registration fees, no requesting of personal information, no "tier" levels for "premium" content. Just register and enjoy.
>>
>> - Modern interface through a forum with easy navigation
>> - Ability to post media/pictures
>> - Ability to post documents
>>
>> - Club-based sub-forums
>> -- If your club doesn't have an internal communication platform then you could have one on this site. If you want it locked so only club members can view it, that can be setup too. Once again, this is free. There is no charge to clubs, no requirements, no strings. Just an option if clubs want a way to communicate with each other.
>>
>> - No spam
>> -- RAS has spam posts that appear regularly so this would eliminate that. It's not a huge distraction but it can be annoying when half the page is filled with porn spam messages
>>
>> Cons:
>> - Resistance to change
>> -- I'm aware that many are very comfortable with the current RAS and will resist a new version. I think a modern interface will go a long way with younger pilots who are used to more modern interfaces.
>>
>> - Learning a new system
>> -- I'm also aware some many be hesitant to try and learn something new. Perhaps everyone here is already part of other forums (and many probably are!) so this may be irrelevant, but having to register for another site can be a pain.
>>
>> Soaring is a great sport and I want to see it grow. I'd appreciate your input and feedback on this. I'm open to suggestions if you have any. If you're interested in helping, let me know that too. We'll probably need a few moderators as we grow.
>
> Been done, gone away. Search for silentflight.com in this group and on archive.org. It was a good effort, but the cost of the server and bandwidth did it in IIRC and the archive is lost AFAICT. When Yahoo groups was being shut down, groups.io allowed transfers, free at first, $110/group in a short while, then $250/group later on. The cost of cloud hosting is a reality. USENET, using the bascially headless NNTP protocol worked fine, but the cost of the servers and bandwidth also caused many ISPs to unload that burden. Google created groups and added the USENET into the mix, though there are still USENET servers on the net. Subscription services, such as SuperNews work I guess, but are kind of draconian in their suspension rules. Some who post here might not last on SuperNews. The USENET is a interesting place yet some trolls can ruin groups. Happened to rec.aviation.homebuilt and it never recovered. Yet, I prefer the broadly available content and resources of the USENET over most forums, though there are specialty groups on groups.io, private groups on Google groups that are easy to use. Yet, none will replace the USENET. Don't think you can beat it. Just my $0.02. Growing soaring is the goal of many. There are waiting lists for training in clubs, chapters, and at commercial operations all over the United States, where we need CFI-G's. This should translate into an opportunity for those with a passion to introduce people into the sport at the grass roots level.

Jon,

Thanks for being interested in fostering discussions.

My primary con is related to any one-off web site forum system. And this hinges on capacity, speed, and most of all support.

There are several large and popular forum internet systems - groups.google.com and groups.io to name just two. Each is supported by massive/large organizations with 24x7 support organizations watching after things, housed in huge data center's capacity, with uber very fast access.

Thanks again, John (OHM)

PS - Its nice to add a signature to your posts.

I follow maybe dozen active discussion groups (hobbies, interests) and ALL of them are moderated by volunteers. This is only one that is not.

There is not a soul on this earth under 50 years old that knows what usenet group and email reader is. And if they find out, they will run to the opposite direction.

RAS has a long history, but I too think this group has not been very inviting for many years. I have also noted that glider pilots generally do not participate in discussions, regardless of forums. On the other hand, they are most social when meeting irl. I have no explanation for this.

On Monday, November 21, 2022 at 11:37:10 PM UTC-7, krasw wrote:
> I follow maybe dozen active discussion groups (hobbies, interests) and ALL of them are moderated by volunteers. This is only one that is not.
>
> There is not a soul on this earth under 50 years old that knows what usenet group and email reader is. And if they find out, they will run to the opposite direction.
>
> RAS has a long history, but I too think this group has not been very inviting for many years. I have also noted that glider pilots generally do not participate in discussions, regardless of forums. On the other hand, they are most social when meeting irl. I have no explanation for this.
Over the years, there have been a lot of lurkers on RAS. Surprised sometimes at who chimed in from time to time, but those numbers may be dwindling. After watching my grandsons and the amount of screen time they have, I have concerns about reading and writing, though the parent teacher conferences have been positive, so maybe there's hope.

On Tuesday, November 22, 2022 at 8:36:06 AM UTC-8, Frank Whiteley wrote:
> On Monday, November 21, 2022 at 11:37:10 PM UTC-7, krasw wrote:
> > I follow maybe dozen active discussion groups (hobbies, interests) and ALL of them are moderated by volunteers. This is only one that is not.
> >
> > There is not a soul on this earth under 50 years old that knows what usenet group and email reader is. And if they find out, they will run to the opposite direction.
> >
> > RAS has a long history, but I too think this group has not been very inviting for many years. I have also noted that glider pilots generally do not participate in discussions, regardless of forums. On the other hand, they are most social when meeting irl. I have no explanation for this.
> Over the years, there have been a lot of lurkers on RAS. Surprised sometimes at who chimed in from time to time, but those numbers may be dwindling. After watching my grandsons and the amount of screen time they have, I have concerns about reading and writing, though the parent teacher conferences have been positive, so maybe there's hope.

Thank you to everyone who has provided feedback thus far.

Moshe, I think you bring up an excellent point with regards to the ability to search historical posts on RAS. A feature to search RAS could be built in pretty easily to search RAS directly from the website and display the results inside the website with links back to RAS.

I'm not overly concerned about server or bandwidth issues as most of the reputable ones have very high reliability these days. Unless the site is generating extremely high levels of traffic, I'm also not worried about bandwidth being eaten up and causing excessive costs. The German website https://www.segelflug.de is an example of how a modern site can function, at least in terms of the forum. Admittedly, I'm not a fan of their homepage.

I look forward to the continued discussion.

Jon

Not that I'm interested, but who's going to pay for the website?

Dan
5J

On 11/22/22 18:40, Jon wrote:
> On Tuesday, November 22, 2022 at 8:36:06 AM UTC-8, Frank Whiteley wrote:
>> On Monday, November 21, 2022 at 11:37:10 PM UTC-7, krasw wrote:
>>> I follow maybe dozen active discussion groups (hobbies, interests) and ALL of them are moderated by volunteers. This is only one that is not.
>>>
>>> There is not a soul on this earth under 50 years old that knows what usenet group and email reader is. And if they find out, they will run to the opposite direction.
>>>
>>> RAS has a long history, but I too think this group has not been very inviting for many years. I have also noted that glider pilots generally do not participate in discussions, regardless of forums. On the other hand, they are most social when meeting irl. I have no explanation for this.
>> Over the years, there have been a lot of lurkers on RAS. Surprised sometimes at who chimed in from time to time, but those numbers may be dwindling. After watching my grandsons and the amount of screen time they have, I have concerns about reading and writing, though the parent teacher conferences have been positive, so maybe there's hope.
>
> Thank you to everyone who has provided feedback thus far.
>
> Moshe, I think you bring up an excellent point with regards to the ability to search historical posts on RAS. A feature to search RAS could be built in pretty easily to search RAS directly from the website and display the results inside the website with links back to RAS.
>
> I'm not overly concerned about server or bandwidth issues as most of the reputable ones have very high reliability these days. Unless the site is generating extremely high levels of traffic, I'm also not worried about bandwidth being eaten up and causing excessive costs. The German website https://www.segelflug.de is an example of how a modern site can function, at least in terms of the forum. Admittedly, I'm not a fan of their homepage.
>
> I look forward to the continued discussion.
>
> Jon

On Wednesday, November 23, 2022 at 1:24:33 PM UTC-8, Dan Marotta wrote:
> Not that I'm interested, but who's going to pay for the website?
>
> Dan
> 5J
> On 11/22/22 18:40, Jon wrote:
> > On Tuesday, November 22, 2022 at 8:36:06 AM UTC-8, Frank Whiteley wrote:
> >> On Monday, November 21, 2022 at 11:37:10 PM UTC-7, krasw wrote:
> >>> I follow maybe dozen active discussion groups (hobbies, interests) and ALL of them are moderated by volunteers. This is only one that is not.
> >>>
> >>> There is not a soul on this earth under 50 years old that knows what usenet group and email reader is. And if they find out, they will run to the opposite direction.
> >>>
> >>> RAS has a long history, but I too think this group has not been very inviting for many years. I have also noted that glider pilots generally do not participate in discussions, regardless of forums. On the other hand, they are most social when meeting irl. I have no explanation for this.
> >> Over the years, there have been a lot of lurkers on RAS. Surprised sometimes at who chimed in from time to time, but those numbers may be dwindling. After watching my grandsons and the amount of screen time they have, I have concerns about reading and writing, though the parent teacher conferences have been positive, so maybe there's hope.
> >
> > Thank you to everyone who has provided feedback thus far.
> >
> > Moshe, I think you bring up an excellent point with regards to the ability to search historical posts on RAS. A feature to search RAS could be built in pretty easily to search RAS directly from the website and display the results inside the website with links back to RAS.
> >
> > I'm not overly concerned about server or bandwidth issues as most of the reputable ones have very high reliability these days. Unless the site is generating extremely high levels of traffic, I'm also not worried about bandwidth being eaten up and causing excessive costs. The German website https://www.segelflug.de is an example of how a modern site can function, at least in terms of the forum. Admittedly, I'm not a fan of their homepage.
> >
> > I look forward to the continued discussion.
> >
> > Jon
I am. The first step is to get the forum up and running since that's the primary intent. The rest can be added as we go along.

As we discuss how to generate interest in the sport (regardless of current waiting lists at some places), people search online for their interests and Usenet just doesn't work for 2022. Reddit has a sub-reddit (r/gliding) but Reddit seems to be an acquired taste as far as I can tell.

Just an idea, a lot of us use mobile device for browsing forums. I would highly recommend integrating forum to Tapatalk (should be pretty trivial), which is pretty common app among active forum users.

On 11/24/2022 6:56 AM, krasw wrote:
> Just an idea, a lot of us use mobile device for browsing forums. I would highly recommend integrating forum to Tapatalk (should be pretty trivial), which is pretty common app among active forum users.
>
My experience with Tapatalk (limited to the Tophat forum, and on a PC
not a phone) is that it is PAINFUL. Endless nagging for a paid
subscription, no search facility, etc. Even Google Groups is MUCH better.

And again, for long term stability, I would avoid any such service that
may be gone tomorrow. The Usenet Newsgroup may be old-fashioned, but
its physical existence (including the history of old messages) is
distributed, not dependent on any single service. That, to my mind, is
far more important than the flashiness of any current fad.

Perhaps we should separate in our minds two possibly-incompatible goals:
* serious discussion with long-term archiving
* reaching potential recruits where they are

On Wednesday, November 23, 2022 at 8:37:13 PM UTC-7, Jon wrote:
> On Wednesday, November 23, 2022 at 1:24:33 PM UTC-8, Dan Marotta wrote:
> > Not that I'm interested, but who's going to pay for the website?
> >
> > Dan
> > 5J
> > On 11/22/22 18:40, Jon wrote:
> > > On Tuesday, November 22, 2022 at 8:36:06 AM UTC-8, Frank Whiteley wrote:
> > >> On Monday, November 21, 2022 at 11:37:10 PM UTC-7, krasw wrote:
> > >>> I follow maybe dozen active discussion groups (hobbies, interests) and ALL of them are moderated by volunteers. This is only one that is not.
> > >>>
> > >>> There is not a soul on this earth under 50 years old that knows what usenet group and email reader is. And if they find out, they will run to the opposite direction.
> > >>>
> > >>> RAS has a long history, but I too think this group has not been very inviting for many years. I have also noted that glider pilots generally do not participate in discussions, regardless of forums. On the other hand, they are most social when meeting irl. I have no explanation for this.
> > >> Over the years, there have been a lot of lurkers on RAS. Surprised sometimes at who chimed in from time to time, but those numbers may be dwindling. After watching my grandsons and the amount of screen time they have, I have concerns about reading and writing, though the parent teacher conferences have been positive, so maybe there's hope.
> > >
> > > Thank you to everyone who has provided feedback thus far.
> > >
> > > Moshe, I think you bring up an excellent point with regards to the ability to search historical posts on RAS. A feature to search RAS could be built in pretty easily to search RAS directly from the website and display the results inside the website with links back to RAS.
> > >
> > > I'm not overly concerned about server or bandwidth issues as most of the reputable ones have very high reliability these days. Unless the site is generating extremely high levels of traffic, I'm also not worried about bandwidth being eaten up and causing excessive costs. The German website https://www.segelflug.de is an example of how a modern site can function, at least in terms of the forum. Admittedly, I'm not a fan of their homepage.
> > >
> > > I look forward to the continued discussion.
> > >
> > > Jon
> I am. The first step is to get the forum up and running since that's the primary intent. The rest can be added as we go along.
>
> As we discuss how to generate interest in the sport (regardless of current waiting lists at some places), people search online for their interests and Usenet just doesn't work for 2022. Reddit has a sub-reddit (r/gliding) but Reddit seems to be an acquired taste as far as I can tell.
WRT local recruiting, one club used Craigslist both to recruit tow pilots and students. Craigslist has an aviation section, so properly constructed offerings can produce results. RAS is not what I would call a recruiting tool and the wearing of flame proof clothing is still recommended as it not feeding the trolls. The important part is closing the deal, which is the local and most important end of the process.

FOn Thursday, November 24, 2022 at 9:18:51 AM UTC-8, Frank Whiteley wrote:
> On Wednesday, November 23, 2022 at 8:37:13 PM UTC-7, Jon wrote:
> > On Wednesday, November 23, 2022 at 1:24:33 PM UTC-8, Dan Marotta wrote:
> > > Not that I'm interested, but who's going to pay for the website?
> > >
> > > Dan
> > > 5J
> > > On 11/22/22 18:40, Jon wrote:
> > > > On Tuesday, November 22, 2022 at 8:36:06 AM UTC-8, Frank Whiteley wrote:
> > > >> On Monday, November 21, 2022 at 11:37:10 PM UTC-7, krasw wrote:
> > > >>> I follow maybe dozen active discussion groups (hobbies, interests) and ALL of them are moderated by volunteers. This is only one that is not..
> > > >>>
> > > >>> There is not a soul on this earth under 50 years old that knows what usenet group and email reader is. And if they find out, they will run to the opposite direction.
> > > >>>
> > > >>> RAS has a long history, but I too think this group has not been very inviting for many years. I have also noted that glider pilots generally do not participate in discussions, regardless of forums. On the other hand, they are most social when meeting irl. I have no explanation for this.
> > > >> Over the years, there have been a lot of lurkers on RAS. Surprised sometimes at who chimed in from time to time, but those numbers may be dwindling. After watching my grandsons and the amount of screen time they have, I have concerns about reading and writing, though the parent teacher conferences have been positive, so maybe there's hope.
> > > >
> > > > Thank you to everyone who has provided feedback thus far.
> > > >
> > > > Moshe, I think you bring up an excellent point with regards to the ability to search historical posts on RAS. A feature to search RAS could be built in pretty easily to search RAS directly from the website and display the results inside the website with links back to RAS.
> > > >
> > > > I'm not overly concerned about server or bandwidth issues as most of the reputable ones have very high reliability these days. Unless the site is generating extremely high levels of traffic, I'm also not worried about bandwidth being eaten up and causing excessive costs. The German website https://www.segelflug.de is an example of how a modern site can function, at least in terms of the forum. Admittedly, I'm not a fan of their homepage.
> > > >
> > > > I look forward to the continued discussion.
> > > >
> > > > Jon
> > I am. The first step is to get the forum up and running since that's the primary intent. The rest can be added as we go along.
> >
> > As we discuss how to generate interest in the sport (regardless of current waiting lists at some places), people search online for their interests and Usenet just doesn't work for 2022. Reddit has a sub-reddit (r/gliding) but Reddit seems to be an acquired taste as far as I can tell.
> WRT local recruiting, one club used Craigslist both to recruit tow pilots and students. Craigslist has an aviation section, so properly constructed offerings can produce results. RAS is not what I would call a recruiting tool and the wearing of flame proof clothing is still recommended as it not feeding the trolls. The important part is closing the deal, which is the local and most important end of the process.
I like the Craigslist idea!

Charlie

On Thursday, November 24, 2022 at 11:57:06 AM UTC-8, kuzi...@gmail.com wrote:
> FOn Thursday, November 24, 2022 at 9:18:51 AM UTC-8, Frank Whiteley wrote:
> > On Wednesday, November 23, 2022 at 8:37:13 PM UTC-7, Jon wrote:
> > > On Wednesday, November 23, 2022 at 1:24:33 PM UTC-8, Dan Marotta wrote:
> > > > Not that I'm interested, but who's going to pay for the website?
> > > >
> > > > Dan
> > > > 5J
> > > > On 11/22/22 18:40, Jon wrote:
> > > > > On Tuesday, November 22, 2022 at 8:36:06 AM UTC-8, Frank Whiteley wrote:
> > > > >> On Monday, November 21, 2022 at 11:37:10 PM UTC-7, krasw wrote:
> > > > >>> I follow maybe dozen active discussion groups (hobbies, interests) and ALL of them are moderated by volunteers. This is only one that is not.
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>> There is not a soul on this earth under 50 years old that knows what usenet group and email reader is. And if they find out, they will run to the opposite direction.
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>> RAS has a long history, but I too think this group has not been very inviting for many years. I have also noted that glider pilots generally do not participate in discussions, regardless of forums. On the other hand, they are most social when meeting irl. I have no explanation for this.
> > > > >> Over the years, there have been a lot of lurkers on RAS. Surprised sometimes at who chimed in from time to time, but those numbers may be dwindling. After watching my grandsons and the amount of screen time they have, I have concerns about reading and writing, though the parent teacher conferences have been positive, so maybe there's hope.
> > > > >
> > > > > Thank you to everyone who has provided feedback thus far.
> > > > >
> > > > > Moshe, I think you bring up an excellent point with regards to the ability to search historical posts on RAS. A feature to search RAS could be built in pretty easily to search RAS directly from the website and display the results inside the website with links back to RAS.
> > > > >
> > > > > I'm not overly concerned about server or bandwidth issues as most of the reputable ones have very high reliability these days. Unless the site is generating extremely high levels of traffic, I'm also not worried about bandwidth being eaten up and causing excessive costs. The German website https://www.segelflug.de is an example of how a modern site can function, at least in terms of the forum. Admittedly, I'm not a fan of their homepage..
> > > > >
> > > > > I look forward to the continued discussion.
> > > > >
> > > > > Jon
> > > I am. The first step is to get the forum up and running since that's the primary intent. The rest can be added as we go along.
> > >
> > > As we discuss how to generate interest in the sport (regardless of current waiting lists at some places), people search online for their interests and Usenet just doesn't work for 2022. Reddit has a sub-reddit (r/gliding) but Reddit seems to be an acquired taste as far as I can tell.
> > WRT local recruiting, one club used Craigslist both to recruit tow pilots and students. Craigslist has an aviation section, so properly constructed offerings can produce results. RAS is not what I would call a recruiting tool and the wearing of flame proof clothing is still recommended as it not feeding the trolls. The important part is closing the deal, which is the local and most important end of the process.
> I like the Craigslist idea!
>
> Charlie
I agree RAS is not a good place for recruiting, and the new site's primary purpose wouldn't serve for recruiting, but it wouldn't hurt it. Especially if the website is actually searchable on the internet. I disagree on Craigslist being a good tool for recruiting in 2022, but that's just me. There's all kinds of forums for general aviation, including many type specific forums, many of which are quite active.

I understand the hesitation amongst some to not want to move to a new system. If I were to do a poll here (which you can't on RAS but could on the new site), what would the average age of the community be? My odds are on it being 50+ for the majority. I think that explains part of the hesitation. I understand other concerns as well, though. Moshe's is a valid concern about long term archiving of information. I think we have a way to solve that, but until a new site is established and doesn't disappear overnight, that concern isn't going anywhere.

On 11/26/2022 1:48 PM, Jon wrote:
> On Thursday, November 24, 2022 at 11:57:06 AM UTC-8, kuzi...@gmail.com wrote:

>> I like the Craigslist idea!
>>
>> Charlie
> I agree RAS is not a good place for recruiting, and the new site's primary purpose wouldn't serve for recruiting, but it wouldn't hurt it. Especially if the website is actually searchable on the internet. I disagree on Craigslist being a good tool for recruiting in 2022, but that's just me. There's all kinds of forums for general aviation, including many type specific forums, many of which are quite active.
>
> I understand the hesitation amongst some to not want to move to a new system. If I were to do a poll here (which you can't on RAS but could on the new site), what would the average age of the community be? My odds are on it being 50+ for the majority. I think that explains part of the hesitation. I understand other concerns as well, though. Moshe's is a valid concern about long term archiving of information. I think we have a way to solve that, but until a new site is established and doesn't disappear overnight, that concern isn't going anywhere.

I don't mind moving to a new system (I'm 80), as I already use many Google groups and io
groups. My concern is some people will move to the new group, but many might not, then I
have to follow two groups instead of one, or make a choice between them. RAS is the only
"international general soaring" group I follow, but I'd be willing to try another one. Is
there another one?

--
Eric Greenwell - USA
- "A Guide to Self-launching Sailplane Operation"
https://sites.google.com/site/motorgliders/publications

On Thursday, November 24, 2022 at 12:57:06 PM UTC-7, kuzi...@gmail.com wrote:
> FOn Thursday, November 24, 2022 at 9:18:51 AM UTC-8, Frank Whiteley wrote:
> > On Wednesday, November 23, 2022 at 8:37:13 PM UTC-7, Jon wrote:
> > > On Wednesday, November 23, 2022 at 1:24:33 PM UTC-8, Dan Marotta wrote:
> > > > Not that I'm interested, but who's going to pay for the website?
> > > >
> > > > Dan
> > > > 5J
> > > > On 11/22/22 18:40, Jon wrote:
> > > > > On Tuesday, November 22, 2022 at 8:36:06 AM UTC-8, Frank Whiteley wrote:
> > > > >> On Monday, November 21, 2022 at 11:37:10 PM UTC-7, krasw wrote:
> > > > >>> I follow maybe dozen active discussion groups (hobbies, interests) and ALL of them are moderated by volunteers. This is only one that is not.
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>> There is not a soul on this earth under 50 years old that knows what usenet group and email reader is. And if they find out, they will run to the opposite direction.
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>> RAS has a long history, but I too think this group has not been very inviting for many years. I have also noted that glider pilots generally do not participate in discussions, regardless of forums. On the other hand, they are most social when meeting irl. I have no explanation for this.
> > > > >> Over the years, there have been a lot of lurkers on RAS. Surprised sometimes at who chimed in from time to time, but those numbers may be dwindling. After watching my grandsons and the amount of screen time they have, I have concerns about reading and writing, though the parent teacher conferences have been positive, so maybe there's hope.
> > > > >
> > > > > Thank you to everyone who has provided feedback thus far.
> > > > >
> > > > > Moshe, I think you bring up an excellent point with regards to the ability to search historical posts on RAS. A feature to search RAS could be built in pretty easily to search RAS directly from the website and display the results inside the website with links back to RAS.
> > > > >
> > > > > I'm not overly concerned about server or bandwidth issues as most of the reputable ones have very high reliability these days. Unless the site is generating extremely high levels of traffic, I'm also not worried about bandwidth being eaten up and causing excessive costs. The German website https://www.segelflug.de is an example of how a modern site can function, at least in terms of the forum. Admittedly, I'm not a fan of their homepage..
> > > > >
> > > > > I look forward to the continued discussion.
> > > > >
> > > > > Jon
> > > I am. The first step is to get the forum up and running since that's the primary intent. The rest can be added as we go along.
> > >
> > > As we discuss how to generate interest in the sport (regardless of current waiting lists at some places), people search online for their interests and Usenet just doesn't work for 2022. Reddit has a sub-reddit (r/gliding) but Reddit seems to be an acquired taste as far as I can tell.
> > WRT local recruiting, one club used Craigslist both to recruit tow pilots and students. Craigslist has an aviation section, so properly constructed offerings can produce results. RAS is not what I would call a recruiting tool and the wearing of flame proof clothing is still recommended as it not feeding the trolls. The important part is closing the deal, which is the local and most important end of the process.
> I like the Craigslist idea!
>
> Charlie
This PDF was distributed. Contains some screen captures of the promotions. Internal links are no longer valid. https://drive.google.com/file/d/1gNzDcb76DVSCXhV7YFXL2ZP77CAZK7-o/view?usp=share_link

Perhaps a crafted ad for recruiting potential CFI-Gs?

Frank

On Saturday, November 26, 2022 at 6:35:15 PM UTC-8, Frank Whiteley wrote:
> On Thursday, November 24, 2022 at 12:57:06 PM UTC-7, kuzi...@gmail.com wrote:
> > FOn Thursday, November 24, 2022 at 9:18:51 AM UTC-8, Frank Whiteley wrote:
> > > On Wednesday, November 23, 2022 at 8:37:13 PM UTC-7, Jon wrote:
> > > > On Wednesday, November 23, 2022 at 1:24:33 PM UTC-8, Dan Marotta wrote:
> > > > > Not that I'm interested, but who's going to pay for the website?
> > > > >
> > > > > Dan
> > > > > 5J
> > > > > On 11/22/22 18:40, Jon wrote:
> > > > > > On Tuesday, November 22, 2022 at 8:36:06 AM UTC-8, Frank Whiteley wrote:
> > > > > >> On Monday, November 21, 2022 at 11:37:10 PM UTC-7, krasw wrote:
> > > > > >>> I follow maybe dozen active discussion groups (hobbies, interests) and ALL of them are moderated by volunteers. This is only one that is not.
> > > > > >>>
> > > > > >>> There is not a soul on this earth under 50 years old that knows what usenet group and email reader is. And if they find out, they will run to the opposite direction.
> > > > > >>>
> > > > > >>> RAS has a long history, but I too think this group has not been very inviting for many years. I have also noted that glider pilots generally do not participate in discussions, regardless of forums. On the other hand, they are most social when meeting irl. I have no explanation for this..
> > > > > >> Over the years, there have been a lot of lurkers on RAS. Surprised sometimes at who chimed in from time to time, but those numbers may be dwindling. After watching my grandsons and the amount of screen time they have, I have concerns about reading and writing, though the parent teacher conferences have been positive, so maybe there's hope.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Thank you to everyone who has provided feedback thus far.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Moshe, I think you bring up an excellent point with regards to the ability to search historical posts on RAS. A feature to search RAS could be built in pretty easily to search RAS directly from the website and display the results inside the website with links back to RAS.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I'm not overly concerned about server or bandwidth issues as most of the reputable ones have very high reliability these days. Unless the site is generating extremely high levels of traffic, I'm also not worried about bandwidth being eaten up and causing excessive costs. The German website https://www.segelflug.de is an example of how a modern site can function, at least in terms of the forum. Admittedly, I'm not a fan of their homepage.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I look forward to the continued discussion.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Jon
> > > > I am. The first step is to get the forum up and running since that's the primary intent. The rest can be added as we go along.
> > > >
> > > > As we discuss how to generate interest in the sport (regardless of current waiting lists at some places), people search online for their interests and Usenet just doesn't work for 2022. Reddit has a sub-reddit (r/gliding) but Reddit seems to be an acquired taste as far as I can tell.
> > > WRT local recruiting, one club used Craigslist both to recruit tow pilots and students. Craigslist has an aviation section, so properly constructed offerings can produce results. RAS is not what I would call a recruiting tool and the wearing of flame proof clothing is still recommended as it not feeding the trolls. The important part is closing the deal, which is the local and most important end of the process.
> > I like the Craigslist idea!
> >
> > Charlie
> This PDF was distributed. Contains some screen captures of the promotions.. Internal links are no longer valid. https://drive.google.com/file/d/1gNzDcb76DVSCXhV7YFXL2ZP77CAZK7-o/view?usp=share_link
>
> Perhaps a crafted ad for recruiting potential CFI-Gs?
>
> Frank
Eric,

The current discussion is about potentially starting a new website that's more modern. Part of it is an effort to modernize and part of it is an effort to appeal to younger audiences (not specifically youths, just "younger" in general). I listed some of the pros and cons in the first message.

Frank,

Thanks for sharing. I took a look at it and what I took from the slides was that somehow Craigslist equated to a tripling of members. I'm not sure if that was the intended take-away but that's what I took away from it. If that's the case, I think it would be hard to agree with that assessment without more facts, including how big a role moving airports played. But once again, the new website's purpose isn't specifically about recruiting - more about a modern communications platform for glider pilots (and clubs if they need one).

On Saturday, November 26, 2022 at 8:27:18 PM UTC-7, Jon wrote:
> On Saturday, November 26, 2022 at 6:35:15 PM UTC-8, Frank Whiteley wrote:
> > On Thursday, November 24, 2022 at 12:57:06 PM UTC-7, kuzi...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > FOn Thursday, November 24, 2022 at 9:18:51 AM UTC-8, Frank Whiteley wrote:
> > > > On Wednesday, November 23, 2022 at 8:37:13 PM UTC-7, Jon wrote:
> > > > > On Wednesday, November 23, 2022 at 1:24:33 PM UTC-8, Dan Marotta wrote:
> > > > > > Not that I'm interested, but who's going to pay for the website?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Dan
> > > > > > 5J
> > > > > > On 11/22/22 18:40, Jon wrote:
> > > > > > > On Tuesday, November 22, 2022 at 8:36:06 AM UTC-8, Frank Whiteley wrote:
> > > > > > >> On Monday, November 21, 2022 at 11:37:10 PM UTC-7, krasw wrote:
> > > > > > >>> I follow maybe dozen active discussion groups (hobbies, interests) and ALL of them are moderated by volunteers. This is only one that is not.
> > > > > > >>>
> > > > > > >>> There is not a soul on this earth under 50 years old that knows what usenet group and email reader is. And if they find out, they will run to the opposite direction.
> > > > > > >>>
> > > > > > >>> RAS has a long history, but I too think this group has not been very inviting for many years. I have also noted that glider pilots generally do not participate in discussions, regardless of forums. On the other hand, they are most social when meeting irl. I have no explanation for this.
> > > > > > >> Over the years, there have been a lot of lurkers on RAS. Surprised sometimes at who chimed in from time to time, but those numbers may be dwindling. After watching my grandsons and the amount of screen time they have, I have concerns about reading and writing, though the parent teacher conferences have been positive, so maybe there's hope.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Thank you to everyone who has provided feedback thus far.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Moshe, I think you bring up an excellent point with regards to the ability to search historical posts on RAS. A feature to search RAS could be built in pretty easily to search RAS directly from the website and display the results inside the website with links back to RAS.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I'm not overly concerned about server or bandwidth issues as most of the reputable ones have very high reliability these days. Unless the site is generating extremely high levels of traffic, I'm also not worried about bandwidth being eaten up and causing excessive costs. The German website https://www.segelflug.de is an example of how a modern site can function, at least in terms of the forum. Admittedly, I'm not a fan of their homepage.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I look forward to the continued discussion.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Jon
> > > > > I am. The first step is to get the forum up and running since that's the primary intent. The rest can be added as we go along.
> > > > >
> > > > > As we discuss how to generate interest in the sport (regardless of current waiting lists at some places), people search online for their interests and Usenet just doesn't work for 2022. Reddit has a sub-reddit (r/gliding) but Reddit seems to be an acquired taste as far as I can tell.
> > > > WRT local recruiting, one club used Craigslist both to recruit tow pilots and students. Craigslist has an aviation section, so properly constructed offerings can produce results. RAS is not what I would call a recruiting tool and the wearing of flame proof clothing is still recommended as it not feeding the trolls. The important part is closing the deal, which is the local and most important end of the process.
> > > I like the Craigslist idea!
> > >
> > > Charlie
> > This PDF was distributed. Contains some screen captures of the promotions. Internal links are no longer valid. https://drive.google.com/file/d/1gNzDcb76DVSCXhV7YFXL2ZP77CAZK7-o/view?usp=share_link
> >
> > Perhaps a crafted ad for recruiting potential CFI-Gs?
> >
> > Frank
> Eric,
>
> The current discussion is about potentially starting a new website that's more modern. Part of it is an effort to modernize and part of it is an effort to appeal to younger audiences (not specifically youths, just "younger" in general). I listed some of the pros and cons in the first message.
>
> Frank,
>
> Thanks for sharing. I took a look at it and what I took from the slides was that somehow Craigslist equated to a tripling of members. I'm not sure if that was the intended take-away but that's what I took away from it. If that's the case, I think it would be hard to agree with that assessment without more facts, including how big a role moving airports played. But once again, the new website's purpose isn't specifically about recruiting - more about a modern communications platform for glider pilots (and clubs if they need one).
There's nothing wrong with a new, useful website. Content generation is key and the biggest challenge. Aggregating and sharing content can be useful as there are many channels out there and that's what RAS remains, a channel, useful, annoying, and sometimes challenging.

Have fun,

Frank

On Saturday, November 26, 2022 at 10:00:14 PM UTC-8, Frank Whiteley wrote:
> On Saturday, November 26, 2022 at 8:27:18 PM UTC-7, Jon wrote:
> > On Saturday, November 26, 2022 at 6:35:15 PM UTC-8, Frank Whiteley wrote:
> > > On Thursday, November 24, 2022 at 12:57:06 PM UTC-7, kuzi...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > > FOn Thursday, November 24, 2022 at 9:18:51 AM UTC-8, Frank Whiteley wrote:
> > > > > On Wednesday, November 23, 2022 at 8:37:13 PM UTC-7, Jon wrote:
> > > > > > On Wednesday, November 23, 2022 at 1:24:33 PM UTC-8, Dan Marotta wrote:
> > > > > > > Not that I'm interested, but who's going to pay for the website?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Dan
> > > > > > > 5J
> > > > > > > On 11/22/22 18:40, Jon wrote:
> > > > > > > > On Tuesday, November 22, 2022 at 8:36:06 AM UTC-8, Frank Whiteley wrote:
> > > > > > > >> On Monday, November 21, 2022 at 11:37:10 PM UTC-7, krasw wrote:
> > > > > > > >>> I follow maybe dozen active discussion groups (hobbies, interests) and ALL of them are moderated by volunteers. This is only one that is not.
> > > > > > > >>>
> > > > > > > >>> There is not a soul on this earth under 50 years old that knows what usenet group and email reader is. And if they find out, they will run to the opposite direction.
> > > > > > > >>>
> > > > > > > >>> RAS has a long history, but I too think this group has not been very inviting for many years. I have also noted that glider pilots generally do not participate in discussions, regardless of forums. On the other hand, they are most social when meeting irl. I have no explanation for this.
> > > > > > > >> Over the years, there have been a lot of lurkers on RAS. Surprised sometimes at who chimed in from time to time, but those numbers may be dwindling. After watching my grandsons and the amount of screen time they have, I have concerns about reading and writing, though the parent teacher conferences have been positive, so maybe there's hope.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Thank you to everyone who has provided feedback thus far.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Moshe, I think you bring up an excellent point with regards to the ability to search historical posts on RAS. A feature to search RAS could be built in pretty easily to search RAS directly from the website and display the results inside the website with links back to RAS.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > I'm not overly concerned about server or bandwidth issues as most of the reputable ones have very high reliability these days. Unless the site is generating extremely high levels of traffic, I'm also not worried about bandwidth being eaten up and causing excessive costs. The German website https://www.segelflug.de is an example of how a modern site can function, at least in terms of the forum. Admittedly, I'm not a fan of their homepage.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > I look forward to the continued discussion.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Jon
> > > > > > I am. The first step is to get the forum up and running since that's the primary intent. The rest can be added as we go along.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > As we discuss how to generate interest in the sport (regardless of current waiting lists at some places), people search online for their interests and Usenet just doesn't work for 2022. Reddit has a sub-reddit (r/gliding) but Reddit seems to be an acquired taste as far as I can tell.
> > > > > WRT local recruiting, one club used Craigslist both to recruit tow pilots and students. Craigslist has an aviation section, so properly constructed offerings can produce results. RAS is not what I would call a recruiting tool and the wearing of flame proof clothing is still recommended as it not feeding the trolls. The important part is closing the deal, which is the local and most important end of the process.
> > > > I like the Craigslist idea!
> > > >
> > > > Charlie
> > > This PDF was distributed. Contains some screen captures of the promotions. Internal links are no longer valid. https://drive.google.com/file/d/1gNzDcb76DVSCXhV7YFXL2ZP77CAZK7-o/view?usp=share_link
> > >
> > > Perhaps a crafted ad for recruiting potential CFI-Gs?
> > >
> > > Frank
> > Eric,
> >
> > The current discussion is about potentially starting a new website that's more modern. Part of it is an effort to modernize and part of it is an effort to appeal to younger audiences (not specifically youths, just "younger" in general). I listed some of the pros and cons in the first message.
> >
> > Frank,
> >
> > Thanks for sharing. I took a look at it and what I took from the slides was that somehow Craigslist equated to a tripling of members. I'm not sure if that was the intended take-away but that's what I took away from it. If that's the case, I think it would be hard to agree with that assessment without more facts, including how big a role moving airports played. But once again, the new website's purpose isn't specifically about recruiting - more about a modern communications platform for glider pilots (and clubs if they need one).
> There's nothing wrong with a new, useful website. Content generation is key and the biggest challenge. Aggregating and sharing content can be useful as there are many channels out there and that's what RAS remains, a channel, useful, annoying, and sometimes challenging.
>
> Have fun,
>
> Frank
I agree, Frank.

As I work on this, I thought it would be interesting to put together a comparison tool. If you're searching for a glider to purchase and are curious how a LS-3 compares to an ASW-20 then you could compare at least some of the pertinent information (glide ratio, weight, flaps, etc.). Real world experiences will vary, of course.

That, and a document section for downloading useful information such as manuals, placards, brochures, etc.

On Sunday, December 18, 2022 at 2:42:12 PM UTC-7, Jon wrote:
> On Saturday, November 26, 2022 at 10:00:14 PM UTC-8, Frank Whiteley wrote:
> > On Saturday, November 26, 2022 at 8:27:18 PM UTC-7, Jon wrote:
> > > On Saturday, November 26, 2022 at 6:35:15 PM UTC-8, Frank Whiteley wrote:
> > > > On Thursday, November 24, 2022 at 12:57:06 PM UTC-7, kuzi...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > > > FOn Thursday, November 24, 2022 at 9:18:51 AM UTC-8, Frank Whiteley wrote:
> > > > > > On Wednesday, November 23, 2022 at 8:37:13 PM UTC-7, Jon wrote:
> > > > > > > On Wednesday, November 23, 2022 at 1:24:33 PM UTC-8, Dan Marotta wrote:
> > > > > > > > Not that I'm interested, but who's going to pay for the website?
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Dan
> > > > > > > > 5J
> > > > > > > > On 11/22/22 18:40, Jon wrote:
> > > > > > > > > On Tuesday, November 22, 2022 at 8:36:06 AM UTC-8, Frank Whiteley wrote:
> > > > > > > > >> On Monday, November 21, 2022 at 11:37:10 PM UTC-7, krasw wrote:
> > > > > > > > >>> I follow maybe dozen active discussion groups (hobbies, interests) and ALL of them are moderated by volunteers. This is only one that is not.
> > > > > > > > >>>
> > > > > > > > >>> There is not a soul on this earth under 50 years old that knows what usenet group and email reader is. And if they find out, they will run to the opposite direction.
> > > > > > > > >>>
> > > > > > > > >>> RAS has a long history, but I too think this group has not been very inviting for many years. I have also noted that glider pilots generally do not participate in discussions, regardless of forums. On the other hand, they are most social when meeting irl. I have no explanation for this.
> > > > > > > > >> Over the years, there have been a lot of lurkers on RAS. Surprised sometimes at who chimed in from time to time, but those numbers may be dwindling. After watching my grandsons and the amount of screen time they have, I have concerns about reading and writing, though the parent teacher conferences have been positive, so maybe there's hope.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Thank you to everyone who has provided feedback thus far.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Moshe, I think you bring up an excellent point with regards to the ability to search historical posts on RAS. A feature to search RAS could be built in pretty easily to search RAS directly from the website and display the results inside the website with links back to RAS.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > I'm not overly concerned about server or bandwidth issues as most of the reputable ones have very high reliability these days. Unless the site is generating extremely high levels of traffic, I'm also not worried about bandwidth being eaten up and causing excessive costs. The German website https://www.segelflug.de is an example of how a modern site can function, at least in terms of the forum. Admittedly, I'm not a fan of their homepage.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > I look forward to the continued discussion.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Jon
> > > > > > > I am. The first step is to get the forum up and running since that's the primary intent. The rest can be added as we go along.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > As we discuss how to generate interest in the sport (regardless of current waiting lists at some places), people search online for their interests and Usenet just doesn't work for 2022. Reddit has a sub-reddit (r/gliding) but Reddit seems to be an acquired taste as far as I can tell.
> > > > > > WRT local recruiting, one club used Craigslist both to recruit tow pilots and students. Craigslist has an aviation section, so properly constructed offerings can produce results. RAS is not what I would call a recruiting tool and the wearing of flame proof clothing is still recommended as it not feeding the trolls. The important part is closing the deal, which is the local and most important end of the process.
> > > > > I like the Craigslist idea!
> > > > >
> > > > > Charlie
> > > > This PDF was distributed. Contains some screen captures of the promotions. Internal links are no longer valid. https://drive.google.com/file/d/1gNzDcb76DVSCXhV7YFXL2ZP77CAZK7-o/view?usp=share_link
> > > >
> > > > Perhaps a crafted ad for recruiting potential CFI-Gs?
> > > >
> > > > Frank
> > > Eric,
> > >
> > > The current discussion is about potentially starting a new website that's more modern. Part of it is an effort to modernize and part of it is an effort to appeal to younger audiences (not specifically youths, just "younger" in general). I listed some of the pros and cons in the first message.
> > >
> > > Frank,
> > >
> > > Thanks for sharing. I took a look at it and what I took from the slides was that somehow Craigslist equated to a tripling of members. I'm not sure if that was the intended take-away but that's what I took away from it. If that's the case, I think it would be hard to agree with that assessment without more facts, including how big a role moving airports played. But once again, the new website's purpose isn't specifically about recruiting - more about a modern communications platform for glider pilots (and clubs if they need one).
> > There's nothing wrong with a new, useful website. Content generation is key and the biggest challenge. Aggregating and sharing content can be useful as there are many channels out there and that's what RAS remains, a channel, useful, annoying, and sometimes challenging.
> >
> > Have fun,
> >
> > Frank
> I agree, Frank.
>
> As I work on this, I thought it would be interesting to put together a comparison tool. If you're searching for a glider to purchase and are curious how a LS-3 compares to an ASW-20 then you could compare at least some of the pertinent information (glide ratio, weight, flaps, etc.). Real world experiences will vary, of course.
>
> That, and a document section for downloading useful information such as manuals, placards, brochures, etc.
Fair enough.

Are you aware of this site? https://sailplanedirectory.com/ It's clearly not current, but nor attracting much interest. The SSA Sailplane Directory is currently under redevelopment. It won't be public. In addition to content will also link sailplane data to contests, records, and web content and will hopefully be kept current and resourceful.

Frank Whiteley

On Sunday, December 18, 2022 at 4:42:12 PM UTC-5, Jon wrote:
> On Saturday, November 26, 2022 at 10:00:14 PM UTC-8, Frank Whiteley wrote:
> > On Saturday, November 26, 2022 at 8:27:18 PM UTC-7, Jon wrote:
> > > On Saturday, November 26, 2022 at 6:35:15 PM UTC-8, Frank Whiteley wrote:
> > > > On Thursday, November 24, 2022 at 12:57:06 PM UTC-7, kuzi...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > > > FOn Thursday, November 24, 2022 at 9:18:51 AM UTC-8, Frank Whiteley wrote:
> > > > > > On Wednesday, November 23, 2022 at 8:37:13 PM UTC-7, Jon wrote:
> > > > > > > On Wednesday, November 23, 2022 at 1:24:33 PM UTC-8, Dan Marotta wrote:
> > > > > > > > Not that I'm interested, but who's going to pay for the website?
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Dan
> > > > > > > > 5J
> > > > > > > > On 11/22/22 18:40, Jon wrote:
> > > > > > > > > On Tuesday, November 22, 2022 at 8:36:06 AM UTC-8, Frank Whiteley wrote:
> > > > > > > > >> On Monday, November 21, 2022 at 11:37:10 PM UTC-7, krasw wrote:
> > > > > > > > >>> I follow maybe dozen active discussion groups (hobbies, interests) and ALL of them are moderated by volunteers. This is only one that is not.
> > > > > > > > >>>
> > > > > > > > >>> There is not a soul on this earth under 50 years old that knows what usenet group and email reader is. And if they find out, they will run to the opposite direction.
> > > > > > > > >>>
> > > > > > > > >>> RAS has a long history, but I too think this group has not been very inviting for many years. I have also noted that glider pilots generally do not participate in discussions, regardless of forums. On the other hand, they are most social when meeting irl. I have no explanation for this.
> > > > > > > > >> Over the years, there have been a lot of lurkers on RAS. Surprised sometimes at who chimed in from time to time, but those numbers may be dwindling. After watching my grandsons and the amount of screen time they have, I have concerns about reading and writing, though the parent teacher conferences have been positive, so maybe there's hope.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Thank you to everyone who has provided feedback thus far.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Moshe, I think you bring up an excellent point with regards to the ability to search historical posts on RAS. A feature to search RAS could be built in pretty easily to search RAS directly from the website and display the results inside the website with links back to RAS.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > I'm not overly concerned about server or bandwidth issues as most of the reputable ones have very high reliability these days. Unless the site is generating extremely high levels of traffic, I'm also not worried about bandwidth being eaten up and causing excessive costs. The German website https://www.segelflug.de is an example of how a modern site can function, at least in terms of the forum. Admittedly, I'm not a fan of their homepage.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > I look forward to the continued discussion.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Jon
> > > > > > > I am. The first step is to get the forum up and running since that's the primary intent. The rest can be added as we go along.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > As we discuss how to generate interest in the sport (regardless of current waiting lists at some places), people search online for their interests and Usenet just doesn't work for 2022. Reddit has a sub-reddit (r/gliding) but Reddit seems to be an acquired taste as far as I can tell.
> > > > > > WRT local recruiting, one club used Craigslist both to recruit tow pilots and students. Craigslist has an aviation section, so properly constructed offerings can produce results. RAS is not what I would call a recruiting tool and the wearing of flame proof clothing is still recommended as it not feeding the trolls. The important part is closing the deal, which is the local and most important end of the process.
> > > > > I like the Craigslist idea!
> > > > >
> > > > > Charlie
> > > > This PDF was distributed. Contains some screen captures of the promotions. Internal links are no longer valid. https://drive.google.com/file/d/1gNzDcb76DVSCXhV7YFXL2ZP77CAZK7-o/view?usp=share_link
> > > >
> > > > Perhaps a crafted ad for recruiting potential CFI-Gs?
> > > >
> > > > Frank
> > > Eric,
> > >
> > > The current discussion is about potentially starting a new website that's more modern. Part of it is an effort to modernize and part of it is an effort to appeal to younger audiences (not specifically youths, just "younger" in general). I listed some of the pros and cons in the first message.
> > >
> > > Frank,
> > >
> > > Thanks for sharing. I took a look at it and what I took from the slides was that somehow Craigslist equated to a tripling of members. I'm not sure if that was the intended take-away but that's what I took away from it. If that's the case, I think it would be hard to agree with that assessment without more facts, including how big a role moving airports played. But once again, the new website's purpose isn't specifically about recruiting - more about a modern communications platform for glider pilots (and clubs if they need one).
> > There's nothing wrong with a new, useful website. Content generation is key and the biggest challenge. Aggregating and sharing content can be useful as there are many channels out there and that's what RAS remains, a channel, useful, annoying, and sometimes challenging.
> >
> > Have fun,
> >
> > Frank
> I agree, Frank.
>
> As I work on this, I thought it would be interesting to put together a comparison tool. If you're searching for a glider to purchase and are curious how a LS-3 compares to an ASW-20 then you could compare at least some of the pertinent information (glide ratio, weight, flaps, etc.). Real world experiences will vary, of course.
>
> That, and a document section for downloading useful information such as manuals, placards, brochures, etc.

The information you would like to compare ships is available in the Soaring magazine archive. Look it up under the Johnson reports. Dick did a great job of not only measuring performance, but evaluating other attributes. Not a one click solution but that is completely unrealistic. Who could possibly anticipate every search someone would want and program it.
UH

The only problem with Dick Johnson's reports is that they do not include any gliders built after 1998. (The date of the last report, AFAIK)