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tech / sci.space.policy / Facon 9 crashes on Moon ?

SubjectAuthor
* Facon 9 crashes on Moon ?JF Mezei
`* Re: Facon 9 crashes on Moon ?Niklas Holsti
 `* Re: Facon 9 crashes on Moon ?Snidely
  `- Re: Facon 9 crashes on Moon ?Snidely

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Facon 9 crashes on Moon ?

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From: jfmezei....@vaxination.ca (JF Mezei)
Subject: Facon 9 crashes on Moon ?
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 by: JF Mezei - Thu, 27 Jan 2022 21:05 UTC

BBC reports a Falcon 9 launched on 2015 is abourt to crash on the moon.

https://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-60148543

Mentions it didn't have enough fuel to return to Earth and got caught in
various gravitational pulls to end up on Moon.

If we are discussing Falcon 9 as the first stage (the only thing that
normally returns), it is capable of reaching orbital speeds or is it
doomed to be slowed down by thin atmosphere and renter Earth one way or
another?

or is the BBC confused and they are talking about a second stage?

And from a "crash into the Moon" aspect would there be an actual
explision due to content of tanks, or just the explosion of some mass
going really fast hitting the ground? After over 6 years, would there
be enough fuel and O2 left in the tanks to explode?

Re: Facon 9 crashes on Moon ?

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From: niklas.h...@tidorum.invalid (Niklas Holsti)
Newsgroups: sci.space.policy
Subject: Re: Facon 9 crashes on Moon ?
Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2022 01:18:46 +0200
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 by: Niklas Holsti - Thu, 27 Jan 2022 23:18 UTC

On 2022-01-27 23:05, JF Mezei wrote:
>
> BBC reports a Falcon 9 launched on 2015 is abourt to crash on the moon.
>
> https://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-60148543
>
> Mentions it didn't have enough fuel to return to Earth and got caught in
> various gravitational pulls to end up on Moon.
>
> If we are discussing Falcon 9 as the first stage (the only thing that
> normally returns), it is capable of reaching orbital speeds or is it
> doomed to be slowed down by thin atmosphere and renter Earth one way or
> another?
>
> or is the BBC confused and they are talking about a second stage?

It is the second stage, of course. But it is still a part of the "Falcon
9 launcher". BBC says "The Falcon 9 booster", which is misleading. I
suppose I am reading the same article as you
(https://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-60148543).

> And from a "crash into the Moon" aspect would there be an actual
> explision due to content of tanks, or just the explosion of some mass
> going really fast hitting the ground? After over 6 years, would there
> be enough fuel and O2 left in the tanks to explode?

Often such left-over stages are passivated by letting the propellants
out into space. I don't know if that was done for this stage, but one of
the sources quoted by BBC (prof. McDowell) describes it as "basically a
four-tonne empty metal tank", so it may have been passivated.

Most of the remaining O2 must have been let out to avoid overpressuring
the LOX tank as the left-over LOX boiled. So with little O2, even if
there is some RP1 left, the explosion, if any, will be minor.

Re: Facon 9 crashes on Moon ?

<mn.e42b7e614573434c.127094@snitoo>

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From: snidely....@gmail.com (Snidely)
Newsgroups: sci.space.policy
Subject: Re: Facon 9 crashes on Moon ?
Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2022 17:47:17 -0800
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 by: Snidely - Sat, 29 Jan 2022 01:47 UTC

Niklas Holsti is guilty of <j5gninFkq2oU1@mid.individual.net> as of
1/27/2022 3:18:46 PM
> On 2022-01-27 23:05, JF Mezei wrote:
>>
>> BBC reports a Falcon 9 launched on 2015 is abourt to crash on the moon.
>>
>> https://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-60148543
>>
>> Mentions it didn't have enough fuel to return to Earth and got caught in
>> various gravitational pulls to end up on Moon.
>>
>> If we are discussing Falcon 9 as the first stage (the only thing that
>> normally returns), it is capable of reaching orbital speeds or is it
>> doomed to be slowed down by thin atmosphere and renter Earth one way or
>> another?
>>
>> or is the BBC confused and they are talking about a second stage?
>
>
> It is the second stage, of course. But it is still a part of the "Falcon 9
> launcher". BBC says "The Falcon 9 booster", which is misleading. I suppose I
> am reading the same article as you
> (https://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-60148543).
>
>
>> And from a "crash into the Moon" aspect would there be an actual
>> explision due to content of tanks, or just the explosion of some mass
>> going really fast hitting the ground? After over 6 years, would there
>> be enough fuel and O2 left in the tanks to explode?
>
>
> Often such left-over stages are passivated by letting the propellants out
> into space. I don't know if that was done for this stage, but one of the
> sources quoted by BBC (prof. McDowell) describes it as "basically a
> four-tonne empty metal tank", so it may have been passivated.
>
> Most of the remaining O2 must have been let out to avoid overpressuring the
> LOX tank as the left-over LOX boiled. So with little O2, even if there is
> some RP1 left, the explosion, if any, will be minor.

Scott Manley has advised me that this stage was from the DSCOVR
mission, which is interesting timing ... DSCOVR is at L1 for sun
observations (and little blue pearl monitoring), so we're still getting
news about getting to Lagrangian points.

<URL:https://www.nesdis.noaa.gov/current-satellite-missions/currently-flying/dscovr-deep-space-climate-observatory>

/dps

--
Yes, I have had a cucumber soda. Why do you ask?

Re: Facon 9 crashes on Moon ?

<mn.e4537e61b5ed69ab.127094@snitoo>

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From: snidely....@gmail.com (Snidely)
Newsgroups: sci.space.policy
Subject: Re: Facon 9 crashes on Moon ?
Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2022 18:27:27 -0800
Organization: Dis One
Lines: 59
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 by: Snidely - Sat, 29 Jan 2022 02:27 UTC

Snidely speculated:
> Niklas Holsti is guilty of <j5gninFkq2oU1@mid.individual.net> as of 1/27/2022
> 3:18:46 PM
>> On 2022-01-27 23:05, JF Mezei wrote:
>>>
>>> BBC reports a Falcon 9 launched on 2015 is abourt to crash on the moon.
>>>
>>> https://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-60148543
>>>
>>> Mentions it didn't have enough fuel to return to Earth and got caught in
>>> various gravitational pulls to end up on Moon.
>>>
>>> If we are discussing Falcon 9 as the first stage (the only thing that
>>> normally returns), it is capable of reaching orbital speeds or is it
>>> doomed to be slowed down by thin atmosphere and renter Earth one way or
>>> another?
>>>
>>> or is the BBC confused and they are talking about a second stage?
>>
>>
>> It is the second stage, of course. But it is still a part of the "Falcon 9
>> launcher". BBC says "The Falcon 9 booster", which is misleading. I suppose
>> I am reading the same article as you
>> (https://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-60148543).
>>
>>
>>> And from a "crash into the Moon" aspect would there be an actual
>>> explision due to content of tanks, or just the explosion of some mass
>>> going really fast hitting the ground? After over 6 years, would there
>>> be enough fuel and O2 left in the tanks to explode?
>>
>>
>> Often such left-over stages are passivated by letting the propellants out
>> into space. I don't know if that was done for this stage, but one of the
>> sources quoted by BBC (prof. McDowell) describes it as "basically a
>> four-tonne empty metal tank", so it may have been passivated.
>>
>> Most of the remaining O2 must have been let out to avoid overpressuring the
>> LOX tank as the left-over LOX boiled. So with little O2, even if there is
>> some RP1 left, the explosion, if any, will be minor.
>
> Scott Manley has advised me that this stage was from the DSCOVR mission,
> which is interesting timing ... DSCOVR is at L1 for sun observations (and
> little blue pearl monitoring), so we're still getting news about getting to
> Lagrangian points.
>
> <URL:https://www.nesdis.noaa.gov/current-satellite-missions/currently-flying/dscovr-deep-space-climate-observatory>

And of course, the Ars Technica article where I overlooked the L1
connection on first reading.

<URL:https://arstechnica.com/science/2022/01/an-old-falcon-9-rocket-may-strike-the-moon-within-weeks/>

/dps

--
And the Raiders and the Broncos have life now in the West. I thought
they were both nearly dead if not quite really most sincerely dead. --
Mike Salfino, fivethirtyeight.com

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