Am 30.08.22 um 10:01 schrieb Andy Burns:
>
> Joerg Lorenz wrote:
>
>> FromTheRafters wrote:
>>
>>> google changed the policy that all the third-party apps that got a wifi
>>> access point had to require gps location permission.
>>
>> Are you trying to spread FUD?
>
> Yesterday, I installed a newer version of "Fing" on a different device where I
> haven't used it before, it did pop up a warning that location access was
> required to use wifi features, it allows continuing without location access, but
> with reduced functionality ... so I'd say it's not FUD.

First try whether it really needs location access to work properly.
If not - which I doubt - intelligent people would delete the app and
search for a replacement.

I know that from Swisscom wifi-calling. They want GPS active to support
it. I know why they want it ... but it works anyway.

--
Gutta cavat lapidem (Ovid)

Joerg Lorenz wrote:

> schrieb Andy Burns:
>
>> Yesterday, I installed a newer version of "Fing" on a different device where I
>> haven't used it before, it did pop up a warning that location access was
>> required to use wifi features, it allows continuing without location access, but
>> with reduced functionality ... so I'd say it's not FUD.
>
> First try whether it really needs location access to work properly.

Clearly the app doesn't, other than google's requirements imposed on the app,
Fing is essentially a MAC addr scanner with a few bells and whistles, If I'm
using it to scan my network, I know all the devices re in my house, so I don't
need GPS to tell me that.

> If not - which I doubt - intelligent people would delete the app and
> search for a replacement.

Indeed I will, I've used it for years as an android ping tool, it's trying to
get overblown (wanting £60+ per year for premium features) and no doubt if I
agreed to location access, all my MAC addrs would get squirted out into the
cloud along with their geolocation ...

On 2022-08-29 19:59, nospam wrote:
> In article <tej5if.9uk.1@ID-201911.user.individual.net>, Frank Slootweg
> <this@ddress.is.invalid> wrote:
>
>>
>> For example, most COVID-tracking apps needed location permission in
>> order to be able to use Bluetooth proximity monitoring.
>
> those weren't using the apple/google system, which was deliberately
> designed to *not* use location, which is not a requirement for
> bluetooth proximity.

They don't use the location, but need the location permission because it
is bundled.

--
Cheers, Carlos.

On 2022-08-29 10:12, Joerg Lorenz wrote:
> Am 29.08.22 um 09:31 schrieb Rudolph Rhein:
>> Joerg Lorenz <hugybear@gmx.ch> wrote:
>>
>>> I use iPhones since 2008.
>>
>> This is an Android newsgroup.
>
> You are an uninformed Troll.
> The OP posted the link in both groups.
> And btw it applies to my Pixel 4 as well.

No, he did not. Not in this thread. Maybe on a different thread, no
crosspost.

--
Cheers, Carlos.

Am 30.08.22 um 10:55 schrieb Andy Burns:
> Joerg Lorenz wrote:
>> First try whether it really needs location access to work properly.
>
> Clearly the app doesn't, other than google's requirements imposed on the app,
> Fing is essentially a MAC addr scanner with a few bells and whistles, If I'm
> using it to scan my network, I know all the devices re in my house, so I don't
> need GPS to tell me that.

My words exactly and a very important finding for you I think.

>> If not - which I doubt - intelligent people would delete the app and
>> search for a replacement.
>
> Indeed I will, I've used it for years as an android ping tool, it's trying to
> get overblown (wanting £60+ per year for premium features) and no doubt if I
> agreed to location access, all my MAC addrs would get squirted out into the
> cloud along with their geolocation ...

Voilà! I can only support your view.

--
Gutta cavat lapidem (Ovid)

Am 30.08.22 um 11:52 schrieb Carlos E.R.:
> On 2022-08-29 10:12, Joerg Lorenz wrote:
>> Am 29.08.22 um 09:31 schrieb Rudolph Rhein:
>>> Joerg Lorenz <hugybear@gmx.ch> wrote:
>>>
>>>> I use iPhones since 2008.
>>>
>>> This is an Android newsgroup.
>>
>> You are an uninformed Troll.
>> The OP posted the link in both groups.
>> And btw it applies to my Pixel 4 as well.
>
> No, he did not. Not in this thread. Maybe on a different thread, no
> crosspost.

I did not say X-posting, Carlos, but the subject.
It is an important issue for both OS. For iPhones it is more transparent
and easier to handle.

Compared to iOS Android is a real mess which is the price for the
slightly higher flexibility.

--
Gutta cavat lapidem (Ovid)

Am 30.08.22 um 11:52 schrieb Carlos E.R.:
> On 2022-08-29 19:59, nospam wrote:
>> In article <tej5if.9uk.1@ID-201911.user.individual.net>, Frank Slootweg
>> <this@ddress.is.invalid> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> For example, most COVID-tracking apps needed location permission in
>>> order to be able to use Bluetooth proximity monitoring.
>>
>> those weren't using the apple/google system, which was deliberately
>> designed to *not* use location, which is not a requirement for
>> bluetooth proximity.
>
> They don't use the location, but need the location permission because it
> is bundled.

Exactly this mess killed the Corona apps in every country.
That is a setup of maximum distrust.

--
Gutta cavat lapidem (Ovid)

On 2022-08-30 08:05:44 +0000, Joerg Lorenz said:

> Compared to iOS Android is a real mess which is the price for the
> slightly higher flexibility.

This thread is about how to set up Android to not broadcast location.
If you need that much help in setting up your iPhone, don't ask here.
Ask there.

Am 30.08.22 um 17:47 schrieb gtr:
> On 2022-08-30 08:05:44 +0000, Joerg Lorenz said:
>
>> Compared to iOS Android is a real mess which is the price for the
>> slightly higher flexibility.
>
> This thread is about how to set up Android to not broadcast location.
> If you need that much help in setting up your iPhone, don't ask here.
> Ask there.

What other people do or don't is none of your business. You are an
anonymous Troll.

BTW: You never came up with a relevant contribution in this group or
elsewehere.

--
Gutta cavat lapidem (Ovid)

Joerg Lorenz <hugybear@gmx.ch> wrote:

> intelligent people would delete the app and
> search for a replacement.

It's not his fault that he doesn't understand what anyone said in this
thread as intelligence is an endowment from his parents, but it is his
fault for responding by saying everyone else is wrong because he could have
just moved on to another thread which had a topic that he could understand.

His parents should have taught him that if he doesn't understand the topic,
he can't rightfully disagree with what everyone who does understand, says.

Joerg Lorenz <hugybear@gmx.ch> wrote:
> Am 30.08.22 um 11:52 schrieb Carlos E.R.:
> > On 2022-08-29 19:59, nospam wrote:
> >> In article <tej5if.9uk.1@ID-201911.user.individual.net>, Frank Slootweg
> >> <this@ddress.is.invalid> wrote:
> >>
> >>>
> >>> For example, most COVID-tracking apps needed location permission in
> >>> order to be able to use Bluetooth proximity monitoring.
> >>
> >> those weren't using the apple/google system, which was deliberately
> >> designed to *not* use location, which is not a requirement for
> >> bluetooth proximity.
> >
> > They don't use the location, but need the location permission because it
> > is bundled.
>
> Exactly this mess killed the Corona apps in every country.

Well, ours was quite successful, but then we're a smart bunch.

> That is a setup of maximum distrust.

The (Google/Android) location permission requirement was well
explained *in* the app, *before* (not) enabling it.

But indeed, the first few - never released - apps, were a privacy
nightmare.

Joerg Lorenz wrote:

> You never came up with a relevant contribution in this group or
> elsewehere.

All you did was say that Google didn't do what Google actually did.
And then you said the apps didn't do what the apps actually did.
That's worse than no relevant contribution because it was all wrong.

On 2022-08-29, Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> wrote:
> J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:
>
>> Any idea what the difference is between "Disable" and "Force stop?"
>
> The former should continue to take effect after a reboot, the latter only stops
> it for now, anything else could restart it, including a reboot.

Sometimes a forcestop remains stopped even after the full on reboot.

On 2022-08-30 12:05, Joerg Lorenz wrote:
> Am 30.08.22 um 11:52 schrieb Carlos E.R.:
>> On 2022-08-29 10:12, Joerg Lorenz wrote:
>>> Am 29.08.22 um 09:31 schrieb Rudolph Rhein:
>>>> Joerg Lorenz <hugybear@gmx.ch> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I use iPhones since 2008.
>>>>
>>>> This is an Android newsgroup.
>>>
>>> You are an uninformed Troll.
>>> The OP posted the link in both groups.
>>> And btw it applies to my Pixel 4 as well.
>>
>> No, he did not. Not in this thread. Maybe on a different thread, no
>> crosspost.
>
> I did not say X-posting, Carlos, but the subject.
> It is an important issue for both OS. For iPhones it is more transparent
> and easier to handle.

IPhones are off topic in this thread.

This thread is posted ONLY on comp.mobile.android, so any mention of
iPhones is off-topic.

If there is another thread by the same author and same title in some
other iphone group, that is ANOTHER thread, and irrelevant to us. The OP
chose to not crosspost.

--
Cheers, Carlos.

On 2022-08-31 22:12:30 +0000, Carlos E.R. said:

> If there is another thread by the same author and same title in some
> other iphone group, that is ANOTHER thread, and irrelevant to us. The OP
> chose to not crosspost.

I just now looked and there is a different thread on the iphone ng.
That different thread has different links and discusses only the iphone.
If this lorenzo guy needs iphone setup help he should be asking over there.

Joerg Lorenz used his or her keyboard to write :

> I can only support your view.

I suggest this Lorenz chap read this and tell us what he learned
https://developer.android.com/guide/topics/connectivity/wifi-scan

Andy Burns wrote:

> Joerg Lorenz wrote:
>
>> schrieb Andy Burns:
>>
>>> Yesterday, I installed a newer version of "Fing" on a different device where I
>>> haven't used it before, it did pop up a warning that location access was
>>> required to use wifi features, it allows continuing without location access, but
>>> with reduced functionality ... so I'd say it's not FUD.
>>
>> First try whether it really needs location access to work properly.
>
> Clearly the app doesn't, other than google's requirements imposed on the app,
> Fing is essentially a MAC addr scanner with a few bells and whistles, If I'm
> using it to scan my network, I know all the devices re in my house, so I don't
> need GPS to tell me that.

Hi Andy,

Likely you're aware Joerg Lorenz is an utter moron, but in case you're not
aware that Google _changed_ how Android works in 8.1 and onward, read this.

*Why does WiFi SSID restriction need the location permission?*
<https://www.davx5.com/faq/wifi-ssid-restriction-location-permission>
"Android 8.1 and newer requires apps which want to determine the
active WiFi name (SSID) to have the (coarse) location permission."

At the time of that change, _every_ Wi-Fi debugging app that was affected
complained that this didn't make us more private - but actually less so.

And then, it just got worse in terms of privacy, with each Android version.

"Android 9 and newer additionally require active location services ("GPS")
to determine the SSID. This means that location services ("GPS")
must be enabled when the sync is performed (= permanently)."

"Android 10 and newer additionally require that location is available
"all the time" / "in the background" (synchronization runs in background,
so it needs the background location permission)."

"Android 11 and newer make it more difficult for users to enable the
background location permissions. At the same time, Google Play has
started to reject apps which require background location permission
at will."

This (oddly, arbitrary) requirement for Wi-Fi debuggers to require GPS
didn't change (as far as I know) until only recently, with Android 13.

Note this negates _everything_ the utter moron Joerg Lorenz said, since it
has nothing to do with a particular Wi-Fi debugger, but in Android itself.

Do you have any insight into the main differences between 12 & 13
with respect to the need for Wi-Fi debuggers to require GPS permission?

Am 01.09.22 um 02:13 schrieb FromTheRafters:
> Joerg Lorenz used his or her keyboard to write :
>
>> I can only support your view.
>
> I suggest this Lorenz chap read this and tell us what he learned
> https://developer.android.com/guide/topics/connectivity/wifi-scan

Currently Android stands 3 major releases beyond this info.

--
Gutta cavat lapidem (Ovid)

Am 01.09.22 um 07:02 schrieb Joerg Lorenz:
> Am 01.09.22 um 02:13 schrieb FromTheRafters:
>> Joerg Lorenz used his or her keyboard to write :
>>
>>> I can only support your view.
>>
>> I suggest this Lorenz chap read this and tell us what he learned
>> https://developer.android.com/guide/topics/connectivity/wifi-scan
>
> Currently Android stands 3 major releases beyond this info.

BTW: My claim stands. 95-98% of the time location data/GPS is turned
off. Location history is also turned off.

No app is allowed to permanently use location data if the location
service is running. 6 apps have automatically access when they are used.
2 apps must ask when used. And dozens have no access at all.

No negative effects.

--
Gutta cavat lapidem (Ovid)

Joerg Lorenz used his or her keyboard to write :

>> I suggest this Lorenz chap read this and tell us what he learned
>> https://developer.android.com/guide/topics/connectivity/wifi-scan
>
> Currently Android stands 3 major releases beyond this info.

Read it again. Then read it about twenty five more times.
After about thirty to a hundred times you read it, you might get it.

Am 31.08.22 um 20:14 schrieb Chris Schram:
> On 2022-08-29, Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> wrote:
>> J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:
>>
>>> Any idea what the difference is between "Disable" and "Force stop?"
>>
>> The former should continue to take effect after a reboot, the latter only stops
>> it for now, anything else could restart it, including a reboot.
>
> Sometimes a forcestop remains stopped even after the full on reboot.

The Pedometer app is such an app I use from time to time. To stop it I
have to forcestop it. But this stop survives a reboot.

--
Gutta cavat lapidem (Ovid)