So, just a couple of weeks after my "spare" Samsung A21s received Android 12,
today my Pixel 5a is receiving Android 13 ... no doubt my battery will take a
hit for the day as I tinker with it to see what's changed ...

Am 16.08.22 um 15:33 schrieb Andy Burns:
> So, just a couple of weeks after my "spare" Samsung A21s received Android 12,
> today my Pixel 5a is receiving Android 13 ... no doubt my battery will take a
> hit for the day as I tinker with it to see what's changed ...

Installed it today on my Pixel 4. No glitches so far.

--
Gutta cavat lapidem (Ovid)

Andy Burns wrote:

> So, just a couple of weeks after my "spare" Samsung A21s received Android 12,
> today my Pixel 5a is receiving Android 13 ...

Thanks for letting us know about Tiramisu for the Pixel 5a, where we'd be
interested in anything useful that you find out is in that latest Android.

Android updates have changed tremendously over the past couple of years,
especially for those Samsung and Google phones of yours, so we can expect
more of these updates moving forward (far more than iOS ever will update).

Usually, in my experience, almost everything in the latest Android is
already backported into the earlier Androids, so that's what I'd be
interested in finding out about your Android 13 update.

Examples are the baked-in scrolling screenshot support in Android 13,
and a QR scanner also baked in, a vastly improved bluetooth LE codec,
supposedly copy/paste improvements, auto-clear of the clipboard after one
hour has passed, a more secure photo picker, and "fast pairing", which, I'm
not sure is a good thing or bad thing since it's always looking around for
something to pair with.

I noticed the new Android 13 has three levels of storage permission now.
READ_MEDIA_IMAGE For images and photos
READ_MEDIA_VIDEO For video files
READ_MEDIA_AUDIO For audio files

Useful may be that Android 13 reputedly requires permission for each app to
deliver notifications, which could be a godsend given how we're currently
inundated with notifications.

Perhaps the most useful new feature for me (since I do a lot of Wi-Fi
debugging which requires the GPS radio to be turned on in Android 12) is
the new ability to locate nearby Wi-Fi devices with the introduction of the
new NEARBY_WIFI_DEVICES runtime permission.

Please do let us know what you think of these, and other new features.

> no doubt my battery will take a
> hit for the day as I tinker with it to see what's changed ...

One suggestion is to keep your phone on the charger as you tinker with it,
which is what I do since I manipulate over Wi-Fi using PC scrcpy or vysor.
<https://i.postimg.cc/tgvzsMRm/scrcpy25.jpg> Connect over Wi-Fi sans USB

Most actions are easier on the PC (particularly editing, copying, pasting),
but what's still a bit cumbersome compared to the hand are GUI gestures.

Andy Burnelli wrote:

> I'd be interested in finding out about your Android 13 update.
>
> Examples are the baked-in scrolling screenshot support in Android 13

I had the scrolling screenshots in 12, though I don't think I immediately
realised I had it.

> and a QR scanner also baked in

Yes, in the normal camera app, if you happen to have a QR or barcode in frame it
now pops up the corresponding text as a toast, with a link to the Lens app.

> a vastly improved bluetooth LE codec

I can't particularly claim to hear any improvement with the pixel buds.

> supposedly copy/paste improvements

after copying some text, it now appears as a little pop-up at the bottom of the
screen, similar to how a screenshot does, ready to "share" it.

> and "fast pairing", which, I'm not sure is a good thing or bad thing since
> it's always looking around for something to pair with.

The pixel buds also claimed fast pairing, but when I had them paired to both the
phone and laptop, that seemed to cause frequent disconnects when streaming
music, I guess I'll try that again now.

> I noticed the new Android 13 has three levels of storage permission now.
> READ_MEDIA_IMAGE For images and photos
> READ_MEDIA_VIDEO For video files
> READ_MEDIA_AUDIO For audio files

I presume apps need to be built for v13 to notice that, certainly an app I use
to monitor a customers CCTV still demands access to all my files (even though it
has no need for it, but it won't run without).

> Useful may be that Android 13 reputedly requires permission for each app to
> deliver notifications, which could be a godsend given how we're currently
> inundated with notifications.

I've found recent versions already allow "taming" such notifications.

> Perhaps the most useful new feature for me (since I do a lot of Wi-Fi
> debugging which requires the GPS radio to be turned on in Android 12) is
> the new ability to locate nearby Wi-Fi devices with the introduction of the
> new NEARBY_WIFI_DEVICES runtime permission.

It seems less reluctant to automatically re-connect to my main home wifi now, I
think before it was a bit put-off by WPA3

> Please do let us know what you think of these, and other new features.

The pull-down effect for the tiles/notifications is a bit more bouncy/stretchy,
unfortunately it makes the hole-punch camera much more noticeable during the
pulldown, I guess it is now showing wallpaper rather than black at the top of
the screen.

All in all, not much that's very noticeable ...

Andy Burns wrote:

> Andy Burnelli wrote:
>
>> a vastly improved bluetooth LE codec
>
> I can't particularly claim to hear any improvement with the pixel buds.

The internet can't seem to agree whether they should/do/don't support LC3, or
might get it with a firmware update ...

On 16/08/2022 18:37, Andy Burnelli wrote:

> Perhaps the most useful new feature for me (since I do a lot of Wi-Fi
> debugging which requires the GPS radio to be turned on in Android 12) is
> the new ability to locate nearby Wi-Fi devices with the introduction of the
> new NEARBY_WIFI_DEVICES runtime permission.

I thought this had appeared with a recent Xiaomi update from Android 11
to 12. I can't find it now; perhaps I was able to uninstall it as I
considered it just another method of Android/Google/Xiaomi, etc
detecting my location, this time by proxy using another, nearby,
smartphone. I have my phone hidden from others (AFAIAA...).

--

Jeff

Jeff Layman wrote:

>> Perhaps the most useful new feature for me (since I do a lot of Wi-Fi
>> debugging which requires the GPS radio to be turned on in Android 12) is
>> the new ability to locate nearby Wi-Fi devices with the introduction of the
>> new NEARBY_WIFI_DEVICES runtime permission.
>
> I thought this had appeared with a recent Xiaomi update from Android 11
> to 12. I can't find it now; perhaps I was able to uninstall it as I
> considered it just another method of Android/Google/Xiaomi, etc
> detecting my location, this time by proxy using another, nearby,
> smartphone. I have my phone hidden from others (AFAIAA...).

For the life of me, I've never believed Google's excuse for forcing the GPS
radio to be on when Wi-Fi debuggers are used, but here's some data below...

*NEARBY_WIFI_DEVICES ERUDITE POINT #1:*
Sometimes Google does evil things for evil purposes, e.g., if you turn on
the GPS radio from the Google Maps app, _different_ (worse) things happen
than if you turn on that same GPS radio from _any_ other non-Google app.

I consider that evil not because of what it does, as I know exactly what it
does, but because the average user would NOT know that what it does is
different than just turning on the GPS radio from OUTSIDE a Google app.

And that what it does not turn OFF after you shut down the Google Maps app,
nor does it turn off when you turn the GPS radio off and then back on.

*NEARBY_WIFI_DEVICES ERUDITE POINT #2:*
Sometime back (maybe before Android 6? We can look it up), you could use a
Wi-Fi debugger _without_ turning on the GPS radio, which makes sense
because the argument is that Wi-FI has nothing to do with GPS, right?

Then, Google decided _all_ Wi-Fi debuggers had to request GPS permission,
which has persisted up to and including the OS on my phone (Android 12).

Why Google did that is up to debate, as they "rationalized" it as saying
they wanted people to _know_ they could be traced by their SSID's but then
look at erudite point #1 where Google clearly isn't in the business of
informing people of what _they_ are doing to track them insidiously.

*NEARBY_WIFI_DEVICES ERUDITE POINT #3:*
Ever since Google required Wi-Fi debuggers to turn on the GPS radio, I've
been using mock location, which worked around the loss of privacy Google
enforced with that decision.

Also I _never_ use the Google Maps Activity to turn on the GPS radio (I
just turn that GPS radio on myself from the pulldown tiles).

But I'm _hoping_ that this new NEARBY_WIFI_DEVICES runtime permission
negates the _need_ for the GPS radio to be turned on for Wi-Fi debuggers.

QUESTION FOR ANYONE ON ANDROID 14:
Q: *Can Android 13 use Wi-Fi debuggers _without_ turning on the GPS radio?*

Note my Wi-Fi debugger of choice is:
*Cellular-Z* by JerseyHo
rated 3.9 out of 1.78K reviews with 100K+ Downloads
<https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=make.more.r2d2.cellular_z>

On Wed, 17 Aug 2022 02:53:50 +0100, Andy Burnelli wrote:
>
> ... ... the GPS radio ... ...

I believe a more correct expression would be "GPS receiver".

--
Marvin L Jones | Marvin | W3DHJ.net | linux
38.238N 104.547W | @ jonz.net | Jonesy | FreeBSD
* Killfiling google & XXXXbanter.com: jonz.net/ng.htm

On Tue, 16 Aug 2022 14:33:12 +0100, Andy Burns wrote:

> So, just a couple of weeks after my "spare" Samsung A21s received Android 12,
> today my Pixel 5a is receiving Android 13 ... no doubt my battery will take a
> hit for the day as I tinker with it to see what's changed ...
>

Still a no go for A13 on my Pixel 6 and I've been hitting that 'check
for updates' button 120 times/hour. I've been catching up on Reddit and
maybe I should consider myself lucky since the update isn't going
smoothly for everybody.

It seems there's a trick you can use if you /really/ want A13: subscribe
to beta. You should get the latest version (A13 stable). Then, you can
unsubscribe the beta and there will (should) be no wipe since it's the
latest version.

I think I'll keep hitting that button some more...

--
s|b

Allodoxaphobia wrote:

>> ... ... the GPS radio ... ...
>
> I believe a more correct expression would be "GPS receiver".

I would accept that as valid criticism in that it's a GPS radio, and it's a
GPS receiver, but it's NOT a GPS transceiver (at least not intentionally).

There is some transmission of spurious RF due to the superhet design, as I
recall, but RF transmission from a GPS receiver "should" be minor (let's
hope).

Improvements always welcome.

In message <tdjmsv$p2r$1@gioia.aioe.org>
Andy Burnelli <spam@nospam.com> wrote:

> Allodoxaphobia wrote:
>
> > > ... ... the GPS radio ... ...
> >
> > I believe a more correct expression would be "GPS receiver".
>
> I would accept that as valid criticism in that it's a GPS radio, and it's a
> GPS receiver, but it's NOT a GPS transceiver (at least not intentionally).

I don't think anyone suggested that it was a transceiver.

David

David Higton wrote:

>> Allodoxaphobia wrote:
>>
>>> > ... ... the GPS radio ... ...
>>>
>>> I believe a more correct expression would be "GPS receiver".
>>
>> I would accept that as valid criticism in that it's a GPS radio, and it's a
>> GPS receiver, but it's NOT a GPS transceiver (at least not intentionally).
>
> I don't think anyone suggested that it was a transceiver.

I don't think anyone suggested that they did.

It's a valid point it's just as correct to say it's a GPS radio as it is to
say it's a GPS receiver, simply because _both_ expressions are as correct
as each other, notwithstanding the clarifying deeper technical fact that
even though there are spurious signals output by the superhet nature of the
GPS radio receiver design, it's not considered a GPS transceiver.

> On 16/08/2022 18:37, Andy Burnelli wrote:
>
>> Perhaps the most useful new feature for me (since I do a lot of Wi-Fi
>> debugging which requires the GPS radio to be turned on in Android 12) is
>> the new ability to locate nearby Wi-Fi devices with the introduction of the
>> new NEARBY_WIFI_DEVICES runtime permission.

I find on the Pixel 6A/Android 12 that the GPS location added to camera
pictures can be quite wrong, as if it's lagging by several minutes. I know I
have the GPS enabled, but is there something to make the GPS more responsive?
I have Galileo enabled for more satellites, and the GPS trackers I take with me
(one TwoNav hand-held, one USB stick size) both record continuously with no
problem. This is walking outdoors in open and lightly wooded areas.

Is there a trick I've missed?
--
Thanks,
David
Web: https://www.satsignal.eu

On 8/17/2022 4:34 PM, s|b wrote:
> On Tue, 16 Aug 2022 14:33:12 +0100, Andy Burns wrote:
>
>> So, just a couple of weeks after my "spare" Samsung A21s received Android 12,
>> today my Pixel 5a is receiving Android 13 ... no doubt my battery will take a
>> hit for the day as I tinker with it to see what's changed ...
>>
>
> Still a no go for A13 on my Pixel 6 and I've been hitting that 'check
> for updates' button 120 times/hour. I've been catching up on Reddit and
> maybe I should consider myself lucky since the update isn't going
> smoothly for everybody.
>
> It seems there's a trick you can use if you /really/ want A13: subscribe
> to beta. You should get the latest version (A13 stable). Then, you can
> unsubscribe the beta and there will (should) be no wipe since it's the
> latest version.
>
> I think I'll keep hitting that button some more...
>

I just received the A13 OTA on my Pixel 6 Pro this morning. I was getting
to wonder if the reports of its release had been some sort of hoax. Nothing
to report on the update -- it went as expected and, as usual, there were no
striking hit-you-in-the-face changes. I'm sure that they're there but at
first glance it looks the same as A12 so far.

--
Noli sinere pessimi nequissimique te tristificare!

John McGaw wrote:

> I just received the A13 OTA on my Pixel 6 Pro this morning. I was getting
> to wonder if the reports of its release had been some sort of hoax. Nothing
> to report on the update -- it went as expected and, as usual, there were no
> striking hit-you-in-the-face changes. I'm sure that they're there but at
> first glance it looks the same as A12 so far.

Be careful.

Google issued a warning about the Pixel 6 Android 12 to 13 upgrade today.

Gronk wrote:

> Be careful.
> Google issued a warning about the Pixel 6 Android 12 to 13 upgrade today.

I think only an issue if you ever try to downgrade back to 12?

On 16/08/2022 14:33, Andy Burns wrote:
> So, just a couple of weeks after my "spare" Samsung A21s received Android 12,
> today my Pixel 5a is receiving Android 13 ... no doubt my battery will take a
> hit for the day as I tinker with it to see what's changed ...

13 arrived on my Pixel 6 Pro this morning, and it's as slow as ever to update,
if not worse! I wish they would fix this....
--
Cheers,
David
Web: https://www.satsignal.eu

David Taylor wrote:

> 13 arrived on my Pixel 6 Pro this morning, and it's as slow as ever to update

Yes, it takes a long time to install, but it's not as though you can't use the
phone during the process, it's preparing all the system files and app
optimisations ahead of time, so that the actual reboot to the new version is
literally a few seconds and you're back ...

On 23/08/2022 17:38, Andy Burns wrote:
> Yes, it takes a long time to install, but it's not as though you can't use the
> phone during the process, it's preparing all the system files and app
> optimisations ahead of time, so that the actual reboot to the new version is
> literally a few seconds and you're back ...

OK, but I prefer not to use the phone when something might be updated behind my
back. Maybe I'll do that next time, though!

--
Cheers,
David
Web: https://www.satsignal.eu

Jasymca won't resize to accomodate soft input (ie, input area appears roughly
above spacebar), so I made the (Hacker's) keyboard transparent. It has worked
on several (10?) prior android machines. (I believe problem persists with gboard).

It is probably a defective BLU C5L but the point I tap registers one
character below where I tapped. The recalibration apps deal with delay not
alignment, (This is a major annoyance, but I don't have time to replace phone
now. Plus when I get used to the wrong tapping, I tehnuse a good machine
which throws me off.) Am told there is nothing like the PocketPC screen
alignment tool here.

The option to put a web site or file as a home screen shortcut is gone.

gohp41c hangs so got gohp41cv which works fine.

It burns battery a lot faster, so I use super saver and airplane mode when
off.

Still looking for a java / j2me that will run weka monolithic (data mining
from sourceforge). Tried jbed, retro2me, mega2me.. all say broken manifest,
but it's worked for years on win/lin machines.

I first used a honeywell mini in 1971 when I was ten, and am baffle folks
don't appreciate new software slows old machines down, but old software
speeds up even new machines.

--
Vasos Panagiotopoulos panix.com/~vjp2/vasos.htm
---{Nothing herein constitutes advice. Everything fully disclaimed.}---