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tech / rec.aviation.military / A book "Disaster at D-Day: The Germans Defeat the Allies"

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* A book "Disaster at D-Day: The Germans Defeat the Allies"a425couple
`* Re: A book "Disaster at D-Day: The Germans Defeat the Allies"Jim Wilkins
 `* Re: A book "Disaster at D-Day: The Germans Defeat the Allies"a425couple
  +- Re: A book "Disaster at D-Day: The Germans Defeat the Allies"Jim Wilkins
  `- Re: A book "Disaster at D-Day: The Germans Defeat the Allies"Jim Wilkins

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A book "Disaster at D-Day: The Germans Defeat the Allies"

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 by: a425couple - Fri, 8 Jul 2022 17:26 UTC

I recently got a book -

Disaster at D-Day: The Germans Defeat the Allies, June 1944
by Peter Tsouras

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01G51Q0PQ/ref=dp-kindle-redirect?_encoding=UTF8&btkr=1

Looks like one can do the Kindle for $2.99 or
get the hardcover delivered for $6.79.

"The editor of Hitler Triumphant combines history and fiction to craft
an alternative history of the Normandy landings on D-Day.

It is June, 1944. The Allied armies are poised for the full-scale
invasion of Fortress Europe. Across the Channel, the vaunted Wehrmacht
lies waiting for the signs of invasion, ready for the final battle . . .

What happens next is well-known to any student of modern history. The
outcome could easily have been very different, as Peter Tsouras shows in
this masterful and devastating account in which plans, missions, and
landings go horribly wrong.

Tsouras firmly bases his narrative on facts but introduces minor
adjustments at the opening of the campaign—the repositioning of a unit,
bad weather and misjudged orders—and examines their effect as they
gather momentum and impact on all subsequent events. Without deviating
from the genuine possibilities of the situation, he presents a scenario
that keeps the reader guessing and changes the course of history.

Praise for Disaster at D-Day

“A brilliant and interesting book. The author has pulled off a great
feat of imagination and research.” —Military Illustrated

“This should find a place on the shelves of anyone with an interest in
the period and would be invaluable background reading in preparation for
a battlefield tour of Normandy.” —The British Army Review"

one review is
"Change a couple of factors and Operation Overlord ends in a failure for
the Allies. Few people realize just how close the operation actually
was. The changes were not major, but quickly snowballed as Dame Luck
came into play. A disasterous situation at Omaha Beach closes that area
off. The capture of an Allied secret map convinces Hitler that this is
the main thrust and frees up the reserves at Pas de Calais for defense.
Had this happened, it would have been a true disaster from the British,
who were already scraping the bottom of the manpower barrel. Good
alternate history is interesting. This one is fascinating. The only nit
to pick is that it's VERY detailed and that occasionally bogs down the
story, but it's pretty much a minor point."

another
"Like most other reviewers I give this book four stars. Most of it I
liked, a couple of points I didn't.

The good points: First, and most important is how a relatively
few,relatively minor changes might have indeed reversed the outcome. In
reality Rommel had only one Panzer division near the beach, in the book
Hitler had allowed him to move another division into the area. Second,
von Rundstedt is able to convince Hitler that this is the real invasion
and get the release of many more divisions to be sent to Normandy. In
reality the Germans held these divisions elsewhere until too late.
Third, and the final one I'll mention is that the guns at Pointe-du-Hoc
were installed with their supporting forces and the Rangers didn't quite
make it to the top because of the additional troops up there.

There are other good points as well, but there's no point in telling the
whole story in a short review. If you want to know, read the book.

Let's get the bad out of the way. First, it is written like a lot of
military history: The US 18th Armored was here doing this. The British
24th Infantry was there doing that. The 29th SS Panzer was somewhere
else doing something else. It even has fictional references to books
published after the war on the actions of these divisions. As such, I
sometimes had problems keeping the overall picture in mind (as I do with
some real history). The story doesn't come through as easily as some
other approaches such as that which Turtledove uses. Second, this
shouldn't be the first book you read on D-Day. If so, you might never
understand what really happened. Third, he repeats the claims made by
Montgomery after the war that the battle turned out just the way he had
planned it in advance. Actually, the author quotes this point from one
of his fictional references, but finding this requires a pretty close
reading.

The biggest overall thing that I brought away from the book is
realizing, like Wellington talking about Waterloo, that the D-Day
invasion was "a very nearly run thing." It could indeed have gone the
other way."

or, one can also read what the readers at Goodreads write:
(Their rating is only 3.73!)
https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/1619710.Disaster_at_D_Day

Re: A book "Disaster at D-Day: The Germans Defeat the Allies"

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From: muratla...@gmail.com (Jim Wilkins)
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Subject: Re: A book "Disaster at D-Day: The Germans Defeat the Allies"
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 by: Jim Wilkins - Fri, 8 Jul 2022 22:54 UTC

"a425couple" wrote in message news:ZMZxK.444287$zgr9.277169@fx13.iad...

I recently got a book -

Disaster at D-Day: The Germans Defeat the Allies, June 1944
by Peter Tsouras

-------------------------

What if SS Das Reich had guarded more effectively against sabotage and
arrived in Normandy within a few days by rail as they had planned and
equipped themselves to do?

One proposed change is reasonable, a chain of them doubles (or more) the
possible outcomes with each added link, until the intended result becomes
very unlikely. Maybe the Allies quickly take Falaise, or von Rundstedt is
riding with Rommel when strafed?

Re: A book "Disaster at D-Day: The Germans Defeat the Allies"

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 by: a425couple - Sat, 9 Jul 2022 15:10 UTC

On 7/8/2022 3:54 PM, Jim Wilkins wrote:
> "a425couple"  wrote in message news:ZMZxK.444287$zgr9.277169@fx13.iad...
>
> I recently got a book -
>
> Disaster at D-Day: The Germans Defeat the Allies, June 1944
> by Peter Tsouras
>
> -------------------------
>
> What if SS Das Reich had guarded more effectively against sabotage and
> arrived in Normandy within a few days by rail as they had planned and
> equipped themselves to do?
>
That is a good point.

from
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2nd_SS_Panzer_Division_Das_Reich

March of Das Reich
In April 1944, Das Reich took up a new base near the city of Montauban
in southern France. The location was chosen so that the division could
respond quickly to the anticipated Allied invasion of France on either
the Atlantic Coast or the Mediterranean Sea. In May the division
received 37 Panzer IV and 55 Panther tanks, well below the official
complement of 62 of each, but a full complement of 30 Sturmgeschütz III
assault guns. Fuel and truck shortages hampered training and movement
and many of the more than 15,000 men in the division were recent
recruits and inadequately trained.[23]

The Allied Normandy landings took place on 6 June 1944. On 7 June Das
Reich was ordered to move to Normandy to reinforce the German units
contesting the Allied invasion. An unopposed movement of men and
equipment by railroad would have taken three or four days over
approximately 700 kilometres (430 mi). However, the option to move by
rail had been preempted by the Special Operations Executive (SOE). The
rail cars to be used for transporting the tanks and equipment were
unguarded. In the days before 6 June French operatives of the SOE's
Pimento network, headed by Anthony Brooks, sabotaged the rail cars by
draining the axle oil and replacing it with an abrasive powder that
caused the axles of the cars to seize up. The powder had been parachuted
in by SOE. The perpetrators of the sabotage were a 16 year old girl
named Tetty, her boyfriend, her 14-year old sister, and several of their
friends.[24][25]

As a consequence of the sabotage of the rail cars, Das Reich left
Montauban on 8 June with 1,400 vehicles and proceeded northward by road.
Travel by road caused the steel tracks of the tanks and assault guns to
wear out; vehicles broke down frequently; and fuel was in short
supply.[25] Pinprick attacks by groups of resistors, called Maquis,
killed 15 Germans on the first two days of the movement. More than 100
French were killed, many of them unarmed civilians. Das Reich was
ordered to suppress the Maquis during its journey; "to break the spirit
of the population by making examples." The division carried out the
order by massacring hundreds of civilians on 9 and 10 June in Tulle and
Oradour-sur-Glane.(see below) Attacks by resistance forces mostly ended
on 12 June as Das Reich moved into less favorable territory for
ambushes.[26]

Air attacks hindered the progress of the division in the last phases of
its northward journey. On 11 June British bombers attacked and destroyed
several railcars full of much-needed gasoline at Châtellerault. The air
strike was directed by the Special Air Service (SAS) group called
Operation Bulbasket. After its advance elements crossed the Loire River
on 13 June, the division was under constant air attacks during the day.
As a result, Das Reich arrived only piecemeal to the Normandy
battlefield between 15 and 30 June, its arrival delayed at least several
days by the resistance attacks and air strikes. Rather than going on the
offensive to try to push the Allies back into the sea, Das Reich
initially found itself mostly plugging gaps in the German defenses. The
division was not reunited until 10 July.[27]

Re: A book "Disaster at D-Day: The Germans Defeat the Allies"

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From: muratla...@gmail.com (Jim Wilkins)
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 by: Jim Wilkins - Sat, 9 Jul 2022 17:00 UTC

The Germans wrongly assumed the British couldn't do anything they didn't,
such as use Chain Home as a radar, locate U-Boot millisecond burst
transmissions or invade at low tide in bad weather.

https://www.stmweather.com/blog/history/d-day-weather-and-history-intersect
"Their [German] forecasts for this time periods were that gale-force winds
would arrive on June 5 and continue for several days, which likely
contributed to their lack of anticipation of the attack."

Re: A book "Disaster at D-Day: The Germans Defeat the Allies"

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Subject: Re: A book "Disaster at D-Day: The Germans Defeat the Allies"
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 by: Jim Wilkins - Sun, 10 Jul 2022 02:33 UTC

"a425couple" wrote in message news:ZTgyK.448347$J0r9.375762@fx11.iad...

March of Das Reich

------------------
Part of the delay was too incredible to suggest as alternative history.

From "Das Reich", by Max Hastings, my copy:

"Worse still, to the fury of the unit transport officers who had
requisitioned vehicles on their own initiative, they were now ordered to
return these. The local commander, desperate to maintain some modus vivendi
with the local population after the Panzers had gone, insisted that no
transport was to be arbitrarily commandeered. To the SS, it was another
example of the feeble attitudes of local garrisons. They complied sullenly,
and divisional headquarters began the difficult struggle to reorganize its
formations for movement."

My technical + military library has become too full to easily search. Last
year I sawed enough knot-free 12" wide by 12' long planks from a fallen oak
tree to add a wall of shelves. They should be dry enough to edge and plane
by next summer.

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