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tech / sci.bio.paleontology / New spinosaurids

SubjectAuthor
* New spinosauridsPandora
`* Re: New spinosauridsJohn Harshman
 +* Re: New spinosauridserik simpson
 |`* Re: New spinosauridsJohn Harshman
 | +- Re: New spinosauridserik simpson
 | `* Re: New spinosauridsPandora
 |  +* Re: New spinosauridsJohn Harshman
 |  |`* Re: New spinosauridsPandora
 |  | `* Re: New spinosauridsJohn Harshman
 |  |  `- Re: New spinosauridsPandora
 |  `* Re: New spinosauridserik simpson
 |   `* Re: New spinosauridsPandora
 |    `- Re: New spinosauridserik simpson
 `- Re: New spinosauridsPandora

1
New spinosaurids

<s919lglu6d0jsat6q0m5ee83ffp33hog9p@4ax.com>

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https://www.novabbs.com/tech/article-flat.php?id=3579&group=sci.bio.paleontology#3579

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From: pand...@knoware.nl (Pandora)
Newsgroups: sci.bio.paleontology
Subject: New spinosaurids
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 by: Pandora - Wed, 29 Sep 2021 15:24 UTC

New spinosaurids from the Wessex Formation (Early Cretaceous, UK) and
the European origins of Spinosauridae

Abstract

Spinosaurids are among the most distinctive and yet poorly-known of
large-bodied theropod dinosaurs, a situation exacerbated by their
mostly fragmentary fossil record and competing views regarding their
palaeobiology. Here, we report two new Early Cretaceous spinosaurid
specimens from the Wessex Formation (Barremian) of the Isle of Wight.
Large-scale phylogenetic analyses using parsimony and Bayesian
techniques recover the pair in a new clade within Baryonychinae that
also includes the hypodigm of the African spinosaurid Suchomimus. Both
specimens represent distinct and novel taxa, herein named
Ceratosuchops inferodios gen. et sp. nov. and Riparovenator milnerae
gen. et sp. nov. A palaeogeographic reconstruction suggests a European
origin for Spinosauridae, with at least two dispersal events into
Africa. These new finds provide welcome information on poorly sampled
areas of spinosaurid anatomy, suggest that sympatry was present and
potentially common in baryonychines and spinosaurids as a whole, and
contribute to updated palaeobiogeographic reconstructions for the
clade.

Open access:
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-021-97870-8

Re: New spinosaurids

<0cCdnUpC8JnsG8n8nZ2dnUU7-LudnZ2d@giganews.com>

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Subject: Re: New spinosaurids
Newsgroups: sci.bio.paleontology
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From: jharsh...@pacbell.net (John Harshman)
Date: Wed, 29 Sep 2021 08:29:53 -0700
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 by: John Harshman - Wed, 29 Sep 2021 15:29 UTC

On 9/29/21 8:24 AM, Pandora wrote:
> New spinosaurids from the Wessex Formation (Early Cretaceous, UK) and
> the European origins of Spinosauridae
>
> Abstract
>
> Spinosaurids are among the most distinctive and yet poorly-known of
> large-bodied theropod dinosaurs, a situation exacerbated by their
> mostly fragmentary fossil record and competing views regarding their
> palaeobiology. Here, we report two new Early Cretaceous spinosaurid
> specimens from the Wessex Formation (Barremian) of the Isle of Wight.
> Large-scale phylogenetic analyses using parsimony and Bayesian
> techniques recover the pair in a new clade within Baryonychinae that
> also includes the hypodigm of the African spinosaurid Suchomimus. Both
> specimens represent distinct and novel taxa, herein named
> Ceratosuchops inferodios gen. et sp. nov. and Riparovenator milnerae
> gen. et sp. nov. A palaeogeographic reconstruction suggests a European
> origin for Spinosauridae, with at least two dispersal events into
> Africa. These new finds provide welcome information on poorly sampled
> areas of spinosaurid anatomy, suggest that sympatry was present and
> potentially common in baryonychines and spinosaurids as a whole, and
> contribute to updated palaeobiogeographic reconstructions for the
> clade.
>
> Open access:
> https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-021-97870-8
>
One of the authors comments:

https://tetzoo.com/blog/2021/9/27/two-new-spinosaurid-dinosaurs-from-the-english-cretaceous

Re: New spinosaurids

<9a1654cb-c6ba-41f9-9501-66bcab19e12dn@googlegroups.com>

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Subject: Re: New spinosaurids
From: eastside...@gmail.com (erik simpson)
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 by: erik simpson - Wed, 29 Sep 2021 21:51 UTC

On Wednesday, September 29, 2021 at 8:29:59 AM UTC-7, John Harshman wrote:
> On 9/29/21 8:24 AM, Pandora wrote:
> > New spinosaurids from the Wessex Formation (Early Cretaceous, UK) and
> > the European origins of Spinosauridae
> >
> > Abstract
> >
> > Spinosaurids are among the most distinctive and yet poorly-known of
> > large-bodied theropod dinosaurs, a situation exacerbated by their
> > mostly fragmentary fossil record and competing views regarding their
> > palaeobiology. Here, we report two new Early Cretaceous spinosaurid
> > specimens from the Wessex Formation (Barremian) of the Isle of Wight.
> > Large-scale phylogenetic analyses using parsimony and Bayesian
> > techniques recover the pair in a new clade within Baryonychinae that
> > also includes the hypodigm of the African spinosaurid Suchomimus. Both
> > specimens represent distinct and novel taxa, herein named
> > Ceratosuchops inferodios gen. et sp. nov. and Riparovenator milnerae
> > gen. et sp. nov. A palaeogeographic reconstruction suggests a European
> > origin for Spinosauridae, with at least two dispersal events into
> > Africa. These new finds provide welcome information on poorly sampled
> > areas of spinosaurid anatomy, suggest that sympatry was present and
> > potentially common in baryonychines and spinosaurids as a whole, and
> > contribute to updated palaeobiogeographic reconstructions for the
> > clade.
> >
> > Open access:
> > https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-021-97870-8
> >
> One of the authors comments:
>
> https://tetzoo.com/blog/2021/9/27/two-new-spinosaurid-dinosaurs-from-the-english-cretaceous

It's unusual and very welcome when a scientist actually involved in the research writes a clear account
for non-specialists in the field. Naish is very good at this sort of thing.

Re: New spinosaurids

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From: jharsh...@pacbell.net (John Harshman)
Date: Wed, 29 Sep 2021 17:06:06 -0700
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 by: John Harshman - Thu, 30 Sep 2021 00:06 UTC

On 9/29/21 2:51 PM, erik simpson wrote:
> On Wednesday, September 29, 2021 at 8:29:59 AM UTC-7, John Harshman wrote:
>> On 9/29/21 8:24 AM, Pandora wrote:
>>> New spinosaurids from the Wessex Formation (Early Cretaceous, UK) and
>>> the European origins of Spinosauridae
>>>
>>> Abstract
>>>
>>> Spinosaurids are among the most distinctive and yet poorly-known of
>>> large-bodied theropod dinosaurs, a situation exacerbated by their
>>> mostly fragmentary fossil record and competing views regarding their
>>> palaeobiology. Here, we report two new Early Cretaceous spinosaurid
>>> specimens from the Wessex Formation (Barremian) of the Isle of Wight.
>>> Large-scale phylogenetic analyses using parsimony and Bayesian
>>> techniques recover the pair in a new clade within Baryonychinae that
>>> also includes the hypodigm of the African spinosaurid Suchomimus. Both
>>> specimens represent distinct and novel taxa, herein named
>>> Ceratosuchops inferodios gen. et sp. nov. and Riparovenator milnerae
>>> gen. et sp. nov. A palaeogeographic reconstruction suggests a European
>>> origin for Spinosauridae, with at least two dispersal events into
>>> Africa. These new finds provide welcome information on poorly sampled
>>> areas of spinosaurid anatomy, suggest that sympatry was present and
>>> potentially common in baryonychines and spinosaurids as a whole, and
>>> contribute to updated palaeobiogeographic reconstructions for the
>>> clade.
>>>
>>> Open access:
>>> https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-021-97870-8
>>>
>> One of the authors comments:
>>
>> https://tetzoo.com/blog/2021/9/27/two-new-spinosaurid-dinosaurs-from-the-english-cretaceous
>
> It's unusual and very welcome when a scientist actually involved in the research writes a clear account
> for non-specialists in the field. Naish is very good at this sort of thing.
>
Can't wait until he actually finishes his vertebrate paleontology textbook.

Re: New spinosaurids

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Subject: Re: New spinosaurids
From: eastside...@gmail.com (erik simpson)
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 by: erik simpson - Thu, 30 Sep 2021 00:35 UTC

On Wednesday, September 29, 2021 at 5:06:12 PM UTC-7, John Harshman wrote:
> On 9/29/21 2:51 PM, erik simpson wrote:
> > On Wednesday, September 29, 2021 at 8:29:59 AM UTC-7, John Harshman wrote:
> >> On 9/29/21 8:24 AM, Pandora wrote:
> >>> New spinosaurids from the Wessex Formation (Early Cretaceous, UK) and
> >>> the European origins of Spinosauridae
> >>>
> >>> Abstract
> >>>
> >>> Spinosaurids are among the most distinctive and yet poorly-known of
> >>> large-bodied theropod dinosaurs, a situation exacerbated by their
> >>> mostly fragmentary fossil record and competing views regarding their
> >>> palaeobiology. Here, we report two new Early Cretaceous spinosaurid
> >>> specimens from the Wessex Formation (Barremian) of the Isle of Wight.
> >>> Large-scale phylogenetic analyses using parsimony and Bayesian
> >>> techniques recover the pair in a new clade within Baryonychinae that
> >>> also includes the hypodigm of the African spinosaurid Suchomimus. Both
> >>> specimens represent distinct and novel taxa, herein named
> >>> Ceratosuchops inferodios gen. et sp. nov. and Riparovenator milnerae
> >>> gen. et sp. nov. A palaeogeographic reconstruction suggests a European
> >>> origin for Spinosauridae, with at least two dispersal events into
> >>> Africa. These new finds provide welcome information on poorly sampled
> >>> areas of spinosaurid anatomy, suggest that sympatry was present and
> >>> potentially common in baryonychines and spinosaurids as a whole, and
> >>> contribute to updated palaeobiogeographic reconstructions for the
> >>> clade.
> >>>
> >>> Open access:
> >>> https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-021-97870-8
> >>>
> >> One of the authors comments:
> >>
> >> https://tetzoo.com/blog/2021/9/27/two-new-spinosaurid-dinosaurs-from-the-english-cretaceous
> >
> > It's unusual and very welcome when a scientist actually involved in the research writes a clear account
> > for non-specialists in the field. Naish is very good at this sort of thing.
> >
> Can't wait until he actually finishes his vertebrate paleontology textbook.

I imagine I'd pop for that.

Re: New spinosaurids

<9qkblg94krsvnrnm8i0tthc5d4pvvecnds@4ax.com>

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From: pand...@knoware.nl (Pandora)
Newsgroups: sci.bio.paleontology
Subject: Re: New spinosaurids
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 by: Pandora - Thu, 30 Sep 2021 15:10 UTC

On Wed, 29 Sep 2021 17:06:06 -0700, John Harshman
<jharshman@pacbell.net> wrote:

>On 9/29/21 2:51 PM, erik simpson wrote:
>> On Wednesday, September 29, 2021 at 8:29:59 AM UTC-7, John Harshman wrote:
>>> On 9/29/21 8:24 AM, Pandora wrote:
>>>> New spinosaurids from the Wessex Formation (Early Cretaceous, UK) and
>>>> the European origins of Spinosauridae
>>>>
>>>> Abstract
>>>>
>>>> Spinosaurids are among the most distinctive and yet poorly-known of
>>>> large-bodied theropod dinosaurs, a situation exacerbated by their
>>>> mostly fragmentary fossil record and competing views regarding their
>>>> palaeobiology. Here, we report two new Early Cretaceous spinosaurid
>>>> specimens from the Wessex Formation (Barremian) of the Isle of Wight.
>>>> Large-scale phylogenetic analyses using parsimony and Bayesian
>>>> techniques recover the pair in a new clade within Baryonychinae that
>>>> also includes the hypodigm of the African spinosaurid Suchomimus. Both
>>>> specimens represent distinct and novel taxa, herein named
>>>> Ceratosuchops inferodios gen. et sp. nov. and Riparovenator milnerae
>>>> gen. et sp. nov. A palaeogeographic reconstruction suggests a European
>>>> origin for Spinosauridae, with at least two dispersal events into
>>>> Africa. These new finds provide welcome information on poorly sampled
>>>> areas of spinosaurid anatomy, suggest that sympatry was present and
>>>> potentially common in baryonychines and spinosaurids as a whole, and
>>>> contribute to updated palaeobiogeographic reconstructions for the
>>>> clade.
>>>>
>>>> Open access:
>>>> https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-021-97870-8
>>>>
>>> One of the authors comments:
>>>
>>> https://tetzoo.com/blog/2021/9/27/two-new-spinosaurid-dinosaurs-from-the-english-cretaceous
>>
>> It's unusual and very welcome when a scientist actually involved in the research writes a clear account
>> for non-specialists in the field. Naish is very good at this sort of thing.
>>
>Can't wait until he actually finishes his vertebrate paleontology textbook.

And how about Benton's 5th?

Re: New spinosaurids

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From: jharsh...@pacbell.net (John Harshman)
Date: Thu, 30 Sep 2021 08:31:54 -0700
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 by: John Harshman - Thu, 30 Sep 2021 15:31 UTC

On 9/30/21 8:10 AM, Pandora wrote:
> On Wed, 29 Sep 2021 17:06:06 -0700, John Harshman
> <jharshman@pacbell.net> wrote:
>
>> On 9/29/21 2:51 PM, erik simpson wrote:
>>> On Wednesday, September 29, 2021 at 8:29:59 AM UTC-7, John Harshman wrote:
>>>> On 9/29/21 8:24 AM, Pandora wrote:
>>>>> New spinosaurids from the Wessex Formation (Early Cretaceous, UK) and
>>>>> the European origins of Spinosauridae
>>>>>
>>>>> Abstract
>>>>>
>>>>> Spinosaurids are among the most distinctive and yet poorly-known of
>>>>> large-bodied theropod dinosaurs, a situation exacerbated by their
>>>>> mostly fragmentary fossil record and competing views regarding their
>>>>> palaeobiology. Here, we report two new Early Cretaceous spinosaurid
>>>>> specimens from the Wessex Formation (Barremian) of the Isle of Wight.
>>>>> Large-scale phylogenetic analyses using parsimony and Bayesian
>>>>> techniques recover the pair in a new clade within Baryonychinae that
>>>>> also includes the hypodigm of the African spinosaurid Suchomimus. Both
>>>>> specimens represent distinct and novel taxa, herein named
>>>>> Ceratosuchops inferodios gen. et sp. nov. and Riparovenator milnerae
>>>>> gen. et sp. nov. A palaeogeographic reconstruction suggests a European
>>>>> origin for Spinosauridae, with at least two dispersal events into
>>>>> Africa. These new finds provide welcome information on poorly sampled
>>>>> areas of spinosaurid anatomy, suggest that sympatry was present and
>>>>> potentially common in baryonychines and spinosaurids as a whole, and
>>>>> contribute to updated palaeobiogeographic reconstructions for the
>>>>> clade.
>>>>>
>>>>> Open access:
>>>>> https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-021-97870-8
>>>>>
>>>> One of the authors comments:
>>>>
>>>> https://tetzoo.com/blog/2021/9/27/two-new-spinosaurid-dinosaurs-from-the-english-cretaceous
>>>
>>> It's unusual and very welcome when a scientist actually involved in the research writes a clear account
>>> for non-specialists in the field. Naish is very good at this sort of thing.
>>>
>> Can't wait until he actually finishes his vertebrate paleontology textbook.
>
> And how about Benton's 5th?
>
Is it due soon? I haven't even seen the 4th. But Naish's book, such as
we've seen of it, seems truly massive and encyclopedic.

Re: New spinosaurids

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Subject: Re: New spinosaurids
From: eastside...@gmail.com (erik simpson)
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 by: erik simpson - Thu, 30 Sep 2021 15:47 UTC

On Thursday, September 30, 2021 at 8:10:16 AM UTC-7, Pandora wrote:
> On Wed, 29 Sep 2021 17:06:06 -0700, John Harshman
> <jhar...@pacbell.net> wrote:
>
> >On 9/29/21 2:51 PM, erik simpson wrote:
> >> On Wednesday, September 29, 2021 at 8:29:59 AM UTC-7, John Harshman wrote:
> >>> On 9/29/21 8:24 AM, Pandora wrote:
> >>>> New spinosaurids from the Wessex Formation (Early Cretaceous, UK) and
> >>>> the European origins of Spinosauridae
> >>>>
> >>>> Abstract
> >>>>
> >>>> Spinosaurids are among the most distinctive and yet poorly-known of
> >>>> large-bodied theropod dinosaurs, a situation exacerbated by their
> >>>> mostly fragmentary fossil record and competing views regarding their
> >>>> palaeobiology. Here, we report two new Early Cretaceous spinosaurid
> >>>> specimens from the Wessex Formation (Barremian) of the Isle of Wight.
> >>>> Large-scale phylogenetic analyses using parsimony and Bayesian
> >>>> techniques recover the pair in a new clade within Baryonychinae that
> >>>> also includes the hypodigm of the African spinosaurid Suchomimus. Both
> >>>> specimens represent distinct and novel taxa, herein named
> >>>> Ceratosuchops inferodios gen. et sp. nov. and Riparovenator milnerae
> >>>> gen. et sp. nov. A palaeogeographic reconstruction suggests a European
> >>>> origin for Spinosauridae, with at least two dispersal events into
> >>>> Africa. These new finds provide welcome information on poorly sampled
> >>>> areas of spinosaurid anatomy, suggest that sympatry was present and
> >>>> potentially common in baryonychines and spinosaurids as a whole, and
> >>>> contribute to updated palaeobiogeographic reconstructions for the
> >>>> clade.
> >>>>
> >>>> Open access:
> >>>> https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-021-97870-8
> >>>>
> >>> One of the authors comments:
> >>>
> >>> https://tetzoo.com/blog/2021/9/27/two-new-spinosaurid-dinosaurs-from-the-english-cretaceous
> >>
> >> It's unusual and very welcome when a scientist actually involved in the research writes a clear account
> >> for non-specialists in the field. Naish is very good at this sort of thing.
> >>
> >Can't wait until he actually finishes his vertebrate paleontology textbook.
> And how about Benton's 5th?

I'm not familiar with Benton's 4th. Benton himself is an exalted "grey eminence" in the field, "OBE FRS FRSE", and as
such can emphasize and omit what he likes without much fear of argument. I like the tone of Naish's discussions when
he talks of the inevitable controversies that accompany research. Does Benton? As I say, I haven't seen his books.

Re: New spinosaurids

<57nblg9a23trnbc1jkj17g46et0aqte2rb@4ax.com>

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From: pand...@knoware.nl (Pandora)
Newsgroups: sci.bio.paleontology
Subject: Re: New spinosaurids
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 by: Pandora - Thu, 30 Sep 2021 15:51 UTC

On Thu, 30 Sep 2021 08:31:54 -0700, John Harshman
<jharshman@pacbell.net> wrote:

>On 9/30/21 8:10 AM, Pandora wrote:
>> On Wed, 29 Sep 2021 17:06:06 -0700, John Harshman
>> <jharshman@pacbell.net> wrote:
>>
>>> On 9/29/21 2:51 PM, erik simpson wrote:
>>>> On Wednesday, September 29, 2021 at 8:29:59 AM UTC-7, John Harshman wrote:
>>>>> On 9/29/21 8:24 AM, Pandora wrote:
>>>>>> New spinosaurids from the Wessex Formation (Early Cretaceous, UK) and
>>>>>> the European origins of Spinosauridae
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Abstract
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Spinosaurids are among the most distinctive and yet poorly-known of
>>>>>> large-bodied theropod dinosaurs, a situation exacerbated by their
>>>>>> mostly fragmentary fossil record and competing views regarding their
>>>>>> palaeobiology. Here, we report two new Early Cretaceous spinosaurid
>>>>>> specimens from the Wessex Formation (Barremian) of the Isle of Wight.
>>>>>> Large-scale phylogenetic analyses using parsimony and Bayesian
>>>>>> techniques recover the pair in a new clade within Baryonychinae that
>>>>>> also includes the hypodigm of the African spinosaurid Suchomimus. Both
>>>>>> specimens represent distinct and novel taxa, herein named
>>>>>> Ceratosuchops inferodios gen. et sp. nov. and Riparovenator milnerae
>>>>>> gen. et sp. nov. A palaeogeographic reconstruction suggests a European
>>>>>> origin for Spinosauridae, with at least two dispersal events into
>>>>>> Africa. These new finds provide welcome information on poorly sampled
>>>>>> areas of spinosaurid anatomy, suggest that sympatry was present and
>>>>>> potentially common in baryonychines and spinosaurids as a whole, and
>>>>>> contribute to updated palaeobiogeographic reconstructions for the
>>>>>> clade.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Open access:
>>>>>> https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-021-97870-8
>>>>>>
>>>>> One of the authors comments:
>>>>>
>>>>> https://tetzoo.com/blog/2021/9/27/two-new-spinosaurid-dinosaurs-from-the-english-cretaceous
>>>>
>>>> It's unusual and very welcome when a scientist actually involved in the research writes a clear account
>>>> for non-specialists in the field. Naish is very good at this sort of thing.
>>>>
>>> Can't wait until he actually finishes his vertebrate paleontology textbook.
>>
>> And how about Benton's 5th?
>>
>Is it due soon? I haven't even seen the 4th. But Naish's book, such as
>we've seen of it, seems truly massive and encyclopedic.

https://www.wiley.com/en-us/Vertebrate+Palaeontology%2C+4th+Edition-p-9781118407554

Previous editions were published in 1990, 1997, 2005, and 2015
respectively. Don't know if the next edition is already in the works.
This has been my reference of choice for a comprehensive overview of
vertebrate paleontology since Robert L. Carroll's tome. I like the
cladistic approach.

Re: New spinosaurids

<5IadnTACEOL5Q8j8nZ2dnUU7-LWdnZ2d@giganews.com>

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https://www.novabbs.com/tech/article-flat.php?id=3590&group=sci.bio.paleontology#3590

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From: jharsh...@pacbell.net (John Harshman)
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 by: John Harshman - Thu, 30 Sep 2021 15:57 UTC

On 9/30/21 8:51 AM, Pandora wrote:
> On Thu, 30 Sep 2021 08:31:54 -0700, John Harshman
> <jharshman@pacbell.net> wrote:
>
>> On 9/30/21 8:10 AM, Pandora wrote:
>>> On Wed, 29 Sep 2021 17:06:06 -0700, John Harshman
>>> <jharshman@pacbell.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 9/29/21 2:51 PM, erik simpson wrote:
>>>>> On Wednesday, September 29, 2021 at 8:29:59 AM UTC-7, John Harshman wrote:
>>>>>> On 9/29/21 8:24 AM, Pandora wrote:
>>>>>>> New spinosaurids from the Wessex Formation (Early Cretaceous, UK) and
>>>>>>> the European origins of Spinosauridae
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Abstract
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Spinosaurids are among the most distinctive and yet poorly-known of
>>>>>>> large-bodied theropod dinosaurs, a situation exacerbated by their
>>>>>>> mostly fragmentary fossil record and competing views regarding their
>>>>>>> palaeobiology. Here, we report two new Early Cretaceous spinosaurid
>>>>>>> specimens from the Wessex Formation (Barremian) of the Isle of Wight.
>>>>>>> Large-scale phylogenetic analyses using parsimony and Bayesian
>>>>>>> techniques recover the pair in a new clade within Baryonychinae that
>>>>>>> also includes the hypodigm of the African spinosaurid Suchomimus. Both
>>>>>>> specimens represent distinct and novel taxa, herein named
>>>>>>> Ceratosuchops inferodios gen. et sp. nov. and Riparovenator milnerae
>>>>>>> gen. et sp. nov. A palaeogeographic reconstruction suggests a European
>>>>>>> origin for Spinosauridae, with at least two dispersal events into
>>>>>>> Africa. These new finds provide welcome information on poorly sampled
>>>>>>> areas of spinosaurid anatomy, suggest that sympatry was present and
>>>>>>> potentially common in baryonychines and spinosaurids as a whole, and
>>>>>>> contribute to updated palaeobiogeographic reconstructions for the
>>>>>>> clade.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Open access:
>>>>>>> https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-021-97870-8
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> One of the authors comments:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> https://tetzoo.com/blog/2021/9/27/two-new-spinosaurid-dinosaurs-from-the-english-cretaceous
>>>>>
>>>>> It's unusual and very welcome when a scientist actually involved in the research writes a clear account
>>>>> for non-specialists in the field. Naish is very good at this sort of thing.
>>>>>
>>>> Can't wait until he actually finishes his vertebrate paleontology textbook.
>>>
>>> And how about Benton's 5th?
>>>
>> Is it due soon? I haven't even seen the 4th. But Naish's book, such as
>> we've seen of it, seems truly massive and encyclopedic.
>
> https://www.wiley.com/en-us/Vertebrate+Palaeontology%2C+4th+Edition-p-9781118407554
>
> Previous editions were published in 1990, 1997, 2005, and 2015
> respectively. Don't know if the next edition is already in the works.
> This has been my reference of choice for a comprehensive overview of
> vertebrate paleontology since Robert L. Carroll's tome. I like the
> cladistic approach.
>
In fact my most recent copy is the 2nd edition. Do you know if the 4th
is a major revision?

Re: New spinosaurids

<0jnblgdlmf360g03u6cfgu3r4k7rlcgf52@4ax.com>

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From: pand...@knoware.nl (Pandora)
Newsgroups: sci.bio.paleontology
Subject: Re: New spinosaurids
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 by: Pandora - Thu, 30 Sep 2021 15:57 UTC

On Wed, 29 Sep 2021 08:29:53 -0700, John Harshman
<jharshman@pacbell.net> wrote:

>On 9/29/21 8:24 AM, Pandora wrote:
>> New spinosaurids from the Wessex Formation (Early Cretaceous, UK) and
>> the European origins of Spinosauridae
>>
>> Abstract
>>
>> Spinosaurids are among the most distinctive and yet poorly-known of
>> large-bodied theropod dinosaurs, a situation exacerbated by their
>> mostly fragmentary fossil record and competing views regarding their
>> palaeobiology. Here, we report two new Early Cretaceous spinosaurid
>> specimens from the Wessex Formation (Barremian) of the Isle of Wight.
>> Large-scale phylogenetic analyses using parsimony and Bayesian
>> techniques recover the pair in a new clade within Baryonychinae that
>> also includes the hypodigm of the African spinosaurid Suchomimus. Both
>> specimens represent distinct and novel taxa, herein named
>> Ceratosuchops inferodios gen. et sp. nov. and Riparovenator milnerae
>> gen. et sp. nov. A palaeogeographic reconstruction suggests a European
>> origin for Spinosauridae, with at least two dispersal events into
>> Africa. These new finds provide welcome information on poorly sampled
>> areas of spinosaurid anatomy, suggest that sympatry was present and
>> potentially common in baryonychines and spinosaurids as a whole, and
>> contribute to updated palaeobiogeographic reconstructions for the
>> clade.
>>
>> Open access:
>> https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-021-97870-8
>>
>One of the authors comments:
>
>https://tetzoo.com/blog/2021/9/27/two-new-spinosaurid-dinosaurs-from-the-english-cretaceous

For anyone interested in the functional morphology of the tail of
Spinosaurus see:

(preprint)
<https://www.semanticscholar.org/paper/Tail-propelled-aquatic-locomotion-in-a-theropod-Ibrahim-Maganuco/598cf1c366e00392d49299eb5870b644f5c9e751>

or:
https://www.academia.edu/44396616/Tail_propelled_aquatic_locomotion_in_a_theropod_dinosaur

Re: New spinosaurids

<ivpblg9ip54tpfcosuotnp1c7514nbggs2@4ax.com>

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From: pand...@knoware.nl (Pandora)
Newsgroups: sci.bio.paleontology
Subject: Re: New spinosaurids
Message-ID: <ivpblg9ip54tpfcosuotnp1c7514nbggs2@4ax.com>
References: <s919lglu6d0jsat6q0m5ee83ffp33hog9p@4ax.com> <0cCdnUpC8JnsG8n8nZ2dnUU7-LudnZ2d@giganews.com> <9a1654cb-c6ba-41f9-9501-66bcab19e12dn@googlegroups.com> <v8-dnSMvw9HzYsn8nZ2dnUU7-K2dnZ2d@giganews.com> <9qkblg94krsvnrnm8i0tthc5d4pvvecnds@4ax.com> <AuudnYh07Jb2Rcj8nZ2dnUU7-Q-dnZ2d@giganews.com> <57nblg9a23trnbc1jkj17g46et0aqte2rb@4ax.com> <5IadnTACEOL5Q8j8nZ2dnUU7-LWdnZ2d@giganews.com>
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 by: Pandora - Thu, 30 Sep 2021 16:38 UTC

On Thu, 30 Sep 2021 08:57:24 -0700, John Harshman
<jharshman@pacbell.net> wrote:

>>>>>>>> New spinosaurids from the Wessex Formation (Early Cretaceous, UK) and
>>>>>>>> the European origins of Spinosauridae
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Open access:
>>>>>>>> https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-021-97870-8
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> One of the authors comments:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> https://tetzoo.com/blog/2021/9/27/two-new-spinosaurid-dinosaurs-from-the-english-cretaceous
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It's unusual and very welcome when a scientist actually involved in the research writes a clear account
>>>>>> for non-specialists in the field. Naish is very good at this sort of thing.
>>>>>>
>>>>> Can't wait until he actually finishes his vertebrate paleontology textbook.
>>>>
>>>> And how about Benton's 5th?
>>>>
>>> Is it due soon? I haven't even seen the 4th. But Naish's book, such as
>>> we've seen of it, seems truly massive and encyclopedic.
>>
>> https://www.wiley.com/en-us/Vertebrate+Palaeontology%2C+4th+Edition-p-9781118407554
>>
>> Previous editions were published in 1990, 1997, 2005, and 2015
>> respectively. Don't know if the next edition is already in the works.
>> This has been my reference of choice for a comprehensive overview of
>> vertebrate paleontology since Robert L. Carroll's tome. I like the
>> cladistic approach.
>>
>In fact my most recent copy is the 2nd edition. Do you know if the 4th
>is a major revision?

O yeah, definitely, a lot has happened in vertebrate paleo between
1997 and 2015, and even the 4th edition is obviously trailing behind
developments in the past 6 years. 10 years between editions should be
the max.

Re: New spinosaurids

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From: pand...@knoware.nl (Pandora)
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Subject: Re: New spinosaurids
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 by: Pandora - Thu, 30 Sep 2021 17:17 UTC

On Thu, 30 Sep 2021 08:47:11 -0700 (PDT), erik simpson
<eastside.erik@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Thursday, September 30, 2021 at 8:10:16 AM UTC-7, Pandora wrote:
>> On Wed, 29 Sep 2021 17:06:06 -0700, John Harshman
>> <jhar...@pacbell.net> wrote:
>>
>> >On 9/29/21 2:51 PM, erik simpson wrote:
>> >> On Wednesday, September 29, 2021 at 8:29:59 AM UTC-7, John Harshman wrote:
>> >>> On 9/29/21 8:24 AM, Pandora wrote:
>> >>>> New spinosaurids from the Wessex Formation (Early Cretaceous, UK) and
>> >>>> the European origins of Spinosauridae
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Abstract
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Spinosaurids are among the most distinctive and yet poorly-known of
>> >>>> large-bodied theropod dinosaurs, a situation exacerbated by their
>> >>>> mostly fragmentary fossil record and competing views regarding their
>> >>>> palaeobiology. Here, we report two new Early Cretaceous spinosaurid
>> >>>> specimens from the Wessex Formation (Barremian) of the Isle of Wight.
>> >>>> Large-scale phylogenetic analyses using parsimony and Bayesian
>> >>>> techniques recover the pair in a new clade within Baryonychinae that
>> >>>> also includes the hypodigm of the African spinosaurid Suchomimus. Both
>> >>>> specimens represent distinct and novel taxa, herein named
>> >>>> Ceratosuchops inferodios gen. et sp. nov. and Riparovenator milnerae
>> >>>> gen. et sp. nov. A palaeogeographic reconstruction suggests a European
>> >>>> origin for Spinosauridae, with at least two dispersal events into
>> >>>> Africa. These new finds provide welcome information on poorly sampled
>> >>>> areas of spinosaurid anatomy, suggest that sympatry was present and
>> >>>> potentially common in baryonychines and spinosaurids as a whole, and
>> >>>> contribute to updated palaeobiogeographic reconstructions for the
>> >>>> clade.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Open access:
>> >>>> https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-021-97870-8
>> >>>>
>> >>> One of the authors comments:
>> >>>
>> >>> https://tetzoo.com/blog/2021/9/27/two-new-spinosaurid-dinosaurs-from-the-english-cretaceous
>> >>
>> >> It's unusual and very welcome when a scientist actually involved in the research writes a clear account
>> >> for non-specialists in the field. Naish is very good at this sort of thing.
>> >>
>> >Can't wait until he actually finishes his vertebrate paleontology textbook.
>> And how about Benton's 5th?
>
>I'm not familiar with Benton's 4th. Benton himself is an exalted "grey eminence" in the field, "OBE FRS FRSE",

Despite his 65 years still very active in the field. His publication
list is impressive (and available as pdf's):

https://benton.blogs.bristol.ac.uk/publications/

>and as such can emphasize and omit what he likes without much fear of argument. I like the tone of Naish's discussions when
>he talks of the inevitable controversies that accompany research. Does Benton? As I say, I haven't seen his books.

What you get within the limited space of a comprehensive overview of
an entire field is mostly consensus, but sure, for example Benton pays
attention to the 1,2,3 or 2,3,4 digit controversy in birds (box 9.2 on
p.283).

Re: New spinosaurids

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Subject: Re: New spinosaurids
From: eastside...@gmail.com (erik simpson)
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 by: erik simpson - Thu, 30 Sep 2021 21:29 UTC

On Thursday, September 30, 2021 at 10:18:01 AM UTC-7, Pandora wrote:
> On Thu, 30 Sep 2021 08:47:11 -0700 (PDT), erik simpson
> <eastsi...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >On Thursday, September 30, 2021 at 8:10:16 AM UTC-7, Pandora wrote:
> >> On Wed, 29 Sep 2021 17:06:06 -0700, John Harshman
> >> <jhar...@pacbell.net> wrote:
> >>
> >> >On 9/29/21 2:51 PM, erik simpson wrote:
> >> >> On Wednesday, September 29, 2021 at 8:29:59 AM UTC-7, John Harshman wrote:
> >> >>> On 9/29/21 8:24 AM, Pandora wrote:
> >> >>>> New spinosaurids from the Wessex Formation (Early Cretaceous, UK) and
> >> >>>> the European origins of Spinosauridae
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> Abstract
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> Spinosaurids are among the most distinctive and yet poorly-known of
> >> >>>> large-bodied theropod dinosaurs, a situation exacerbated by their
> >> >>>> mostly fragmentary fossil record and competing views regarding their
> >> >>>> palaeobiology. Here, we report two new Early Cretaceous spinosaurid
> >> >>>> specimens from the Wessex Formation (Barremian) of the Isle of Wight.
> >> >>>> Large-scale phylogenetic analyses using parsimony and Bayesian
> >> >>>> techniques recover the pair in a new clade within Baryonychinae that
> >> >>>> also includes the hypodigm of the African spinosaurid Suchomimus. Both
> >> >>>> specimens represent distinct and novel taxa, herein named
> >> >>>> Ceratosuchops inferodios gen. et sp. nov. and Riparovenator milnerae
> >> >>>> gen. et sp. nov. A palaeogeographic reconstruction suggests a European
> >> >>>> origin for Spinosauridae, with at least two dispersal events into
> >> >>>> Africa. These new finds provide welcome information on poorly sampled
> >> >>>> areas of spinosaurid anatomy, suggest that sympatry was present and
> >> >>>> potentially common in baryonychines and spinosaurids as a whole, and
> >> >>>> contribute to updated palaeobiogeographic reconstructions for the
> >> >>>> clade.
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> Open access:
> >> >>>> https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-021-97870-8
> >> >>>>
> >> >>> One of the authors comments:
> >> >>>
> >> >>> https://tetzoo.com/blog/2021/9/27/two-new-spinosaurid-dinosaurs-from-the-english-cretaceous
> >> >>
> >> >> It's unusual and very welcome when a scientist actually involved in the research writes a clear account
> >> >> for non-specialists in the field. Naish is very good at this sort of thing.
> >> >>
> >> >Can't wait until he actually finishes his vertebrate paleontology textbook.
> >> And how about Benton's 5th?
> >
> >I'm not familiar with Benton's 4th. Benton himself is an exalted "grey eminence" in the field, "OBE FRS FRSE",
> Despite his 65 years still very active in the field. His publication
> list is impressive (and available as pdf's):
>
> https://benton.blogs.bristol.ac.uk/publications/
> >and as such can emphasize and omit what he likes without much fear of argument. I like the tone of Naish's discussions when
> >he talks of the inevitable controversies that accompany research. Does Benton? As I say, I haven't seen his books.
> What you get within the limited space of a comprehensive overview of
> an entire field is mostly consensus, but sure, for example Benton pays
> attention to the 1,2,3 or 2,3,4 digit controversy in birds (box 9.2 on
> p.283).

Thanks, I'll look into it.

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