The Andeomoda and Milkway collision is expected to happen within 4.5
billion years, not much time on the scale of life on this planet.

On 23.1.2022. 4:18, Popping Mad wrote:
> The Andeomoda and Milkway collision is expected to happen within 4.5
> billion years, not much time on the scale of life on this planet.

There will be on some other part of the Universe (probably already it is).

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On 23.1.2022. 12:37, Pandora wrote:
> On Sat, 22 Jan 2022 22:18:55 -0500, Popping Mad <rainbow@colition.gov>
> wrote:
>
>> The Andeomoda and Milkway collision is expected to happen within 4.5
>> billion years, not much time on the scale of life on this planet.
>
> Dramatic as it may sound "colliding" galaxies pass right through each
> other:
> https://apod.nasa.gov/apod/ap190325.html

You didn't understand this bit. When galaxies collide they deform each
other completely, the gravity deforms. Nothing alive can survive this.

> Much more likely is that the habitability of the earth ends earlier
> due to the evolution of the sun. For humans and other multicellulars
> that may be as soon as ~1.3 billion years from now, for extremophiles
> ~2 billion years:
> https://agupubs.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1002/2015JD023302
>
> But extinction of the biosphere may be much faster because we humans
> are fucking the planet:
> https://phys.org/news/2022-01-strong-evidence-sixth-mass-extinction.html
>
> As is to be expected on the basis of the principle of mediocrity and
> the given
> (1) that we are the first technological species to evolve on the Earth
> and
> (2) we are early in our technological evolution, our lifetime is ~500
> years or less:
> https://doi.org/10.1017/S1473550417000271
>
> where a technological species is defined as "a biological species that
> has developed electronic devices and has the capacity to significantly
> affect their planetary environment. By this definition humans have
> qualified for ~100 years."

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On 23.1.2022. 16:44, Pandora wrote:
> On Sun, 23 Jan 2022 15:23:13 +0100, Mario Petrinovic
> <mario.petrinovic1@zg.htnet.hr> wrote:
>
>> On 23.1.2022. 12:37, Pandora wrote:
>>> On Sat, 22 Jan 2022 22:18:55 -0500, Popping Mad <rainbow@colition.gov>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> The Andeomoda and Milkway collision is expected to happen within 4.5
>>>> billion years, not much time on the scale of life on this planet.
>>>
>>> Dramatic as it may sound "colliding" galaxies pass right through each
>>> other:
>>> https://apod.nasa.gov/apod/ap190325.html
>>
>> You didn't understand this bit. When galaxies collide they deform each
>> other completely, the gravity deforms. Nothing alive can survive this.
>
> Sure, there is gravitational interaction on a scale that deforms the
> galaxies and seems quite dramatic from a distance:
> https://apod.nasa.gov/apod/ap150201.html
> https://apod.nasa.gov/apod/ap180607.html
>
> The Milky Way has probably had several of such collisions in the past
> 4.5 billion years, but "Stars within a galaxy are very sparsely
> distributed, being separated by distances of the order of 10 light
> years. In a scale model in which stars are represented by pinheads,
> these would be about 50 km apart and the solar system (out to the
> orbit of Pluto) would have a radius of 5m." (Rindler, 2006, p.350)
> https://global.oup.com/academic/product/relativity-9780198567325
>
> The chances of any two stars colliding during such a galaxy
> "collision" are very small indeed and most of them will pass each
> other undisturbed.

Ok, you may be right.

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On 23.1.2022. 17:02, Mario Petrinovic wrote:
> On 23.1.2022. 16:44, Pandora wrote:
>> On Sun, 23 Jan 2022 15:23:13 +0100, Mario Petrinovic
>> <mario.petrinovic1@zg.htnet.hr> wrote:
>>
>>> On 23.1.2022. 12:37, Pandora wrote:
>>>> On Sat, 22 Jan 2022 22:18:55 -0500, Popping Mad <rainbow@colition.gov>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> The Andeomoda and Milkway collision is expected to happen within 4.5
>>>>> billion years, not much time on the scale of life on this planet.
>>>>
>>>> Dramatic as it may sound "colliding" galaxies pass right through each
>>>> other:
>>>> https://apod.nasa.gov/apod/ap190325.html
>>>
>>>         You didn't understand this bit. When galaxies collide they
>>> deform each
>>> other completely, the gravity deforms. Nothing alive can survive this.
>>
>> Sure, there is gravitational interaction on a scale that deforms the
>> galaxies and seems quite dramatic from a distance:
>> https://apod.nasa.gov/apod/ap150201.html
>> https://apod.nasa.gov/apod/ap180607.html
>>
>> The Milky Way has probably had several of such collisions in the past
>> 4.5 billion years, but "Stars within a galaxy are very sparsely
>> distributed, being separated by distances of the order of 10 light
>> years. In a scale model in which stars are represented by pinheads,
>> these would be about 50 km apart and the solar system (out to the
>> orbit of Pluto) would have a radius of 5m." (Rindler, 2006, p.350)
>> https://global.oup.com/academic/product/relativity-9780198567325
>>
>> The chances of any two stars colliding during such a galaxy
>> "collision" are very small indeed and most of them will pass each
>> other undisturbed.
>
>         Ok, you may be right.

Gee, it is so bitter admitting that you may be wrong, but it must be
done, lol.

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On Sunday, January 23, 2022 at 8:04:53 AM UTC-8, Mario Petrinovic wrote:
> On 23.1.2022. 17:02, Mario Petrinovic wrote:
> > On 23.1.2022. 16:44, Pandora wrote:
> >> On Sun, 23 Jan 2022 15:23:13 +0100, Mario Petrinovic
> >> <mario.pe...@zg.htnet.hr> wrote:
> >>
> >>> On 23.1.2022. 12:37, Pandora wrote:
> >>>> On Sat, 22 Jan 2022 22:18:55 -0500, Popping Mad <rai...@colition.gov>
> >>>> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>> The Andeomoda and Milkway collision is expected to happen within 4.5
> >>>>> billion years, not much time on the scale of life on this planet.
> >>>>
> >>>> Dramatic as it may sound "colliding" galaxies pass right through each
> >>>> other:
> >>>> https://apod.nasa.gov/apod/ap190325.html
> >>>
> >>> You didn't understand this bit. When galaxies collide they
> >>> deform each
> >>> other completely, the gravity deforms. Nothing alive can survive this.
> >>
> >> Sure, there is gravitational interaction on a scale that deforms the
> >> galaxies and seems quite dramatic from a distance:
> >> https://apod.nasa.gov/apod/ap150201.html
> >> https://apod.nasa.gov/apod/ap180607.html
> >>
> >> The Milky Way has probably had several of such collisions in the past
> >> 4.5 billion years, but "Stars within a galaxy are very sparsely
> >> distributed, being separated by distances of the order of 10 light
> >> years. In a scale model in which stars are represented by pinheads,
> >> these would be about 50 km apart and the solar system (out to the
> >> orbit of Pluto) would have a radius of 5m." (Rindler, 2006, p.350)
> >> https://global.oup.com/academic/product/relativity-9780198567325
> >>
> >> The chances of any two stars colliding during such a galaxy
> >> "collision" are very small indeed and most of them will pass each
> >> other undisturbed.
> >
> > Ok, you may be right.
> Gee, it is so bitter admitting that you may be wrong, but it must be
> done, lol.
>
> --
> https://groups.google.com/g/human-evolution
> human-e...@googlegroups.com

Good job, Mario. Being wrong is something everybody does, admitting when it happens
is rarer. Galaxies get big from collisions, and while many are bigger than the Milky Way, it's
not a small galaxy. Other issues (some we've contributed to) will do us in sooner anyway.

On Sunday, 23 January 2022 at 05:20:02 UTC+2, Popping Mad wrote:
> The Andeomoda and Milkway collision is expected to happen within 4.5
> billion years, not much time on the scale of life on this planet.

If our life survives another 4.5 billions years then it is likely advanced
farther above human than human is above amoeba.

On 24.1.2022. 18:50, oot...@hot.ee wrote:
> On Sunday, 23 January 2022 at 05:20:02 UTC+2, Popping Mad wrote:
>> The Andeomoda and Milkway collision is expected to happen within 4.5
>> billion years, not much time on the scale of life on this planet.
>
> If our life survives another 4.5 billions years then it is likely advanced
> farther above human than human is above amoeba.

Yes, but in what way do you think human is advanced more than amoeba?
Or, Corona virus, for example?

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On Sunday, January 23, 2022 at 10:11:25 AM UTC-7, erik simpson wrote:
> On Sunday, January 23, 2022 at 8:04:53 AM UTC-8, Mario Petrinovic wrote:
> > On 23.1.2022. 17:02, Mario Petrinovic wrote:
> > > On 23.1.2022. 16:44, Pandora wrote:
> > >> On Sun, 23 Jan 2022 15:23:13 +0100, Mario Petrinovic
> > >> <mario.pe...@zg.htnet.hr> wrote:
> > >>
> > >>> On 23.1.2022. 12:37, Pandora wrote:
> > >>>> On Sat, 22 Jan 2022 22:18:55 -0500, Popping Mad <rai...@colition.gov>
> > >>>> wrote:
> > >>>>
> > >>>>> The Andeomoda and Milkway collision is expected to happen within 4.5
> > >>>>> billion years, not much time on the scale of life on this planet.
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Dramatic as it may sound "colliding" galaxies pass right through each
> > >>>> other:
> > >>>> https://apod.nasa.gov/apod/ap190325.html
> > >>>
> > >>> You didn't understand this bit. When galaxies collide they
> > >>> deform each
> > >>> other completely, the gravity deforms. Nothing alive can survive this.
> > >>
> > >> Sure, there is gravitational interaction on a scale that deforms the
> > >> galaxies and seems quite dramatic from a distance:
> > >> https://apod.nasa.gov/apod/ap150201.html
> > >> https://apod.nasa.gov/apod/ap180607.html
> > >>
> > >> The Milky Way has probably had several of such collisions in the past
> > >> 4.5 billion years, but "Stars within a galaxy are very sparsely
> > >> distributed, being separated by distances of the order of 10 light
> > >> years. In a scale model in which stars are represented by pinheads,
> > >> these would be about 50 km apart and the solar system (out to the
> > >> orbit of Pluto) would have a radius of 5m." (Rindler, 2006, p.350)
> > >> https://global.oup.com/academic/product/relativity-9780198567325
> > >>
> > >> The chances of any two stars colliding during such a galaxy
> > >> "collision" are very small indeed and most of them will pass each
> > >> other undisturbed.
> > >
> > > Ok, you may be right.
> > Gee, it is so bitter admitting that you may be wrong, but it must be
> > done, lol.
> >
> > --
> > https://groups.google.com/g/human-evolution
> > human-e...@googlegroups.com
> Good job, Mario. Being wrong is something everybody does, admitting when it happens
> is rarer. Galaxies get big from collisions, and while many are bigger than the Milky Way, it's
> not a small galaxy. Other issues (some we've contributed to) will do us in sooner anyway.

You clearly don't even know what being wrong means.

On 1/24/22 10:04 AM, Mario Petrinovic wrote:
> On 24.1.2022. 18:50, oot...@hot.ee wrote:
>> On Sunday, 23 January 2022 at 05:20:02 UTC+2, Popping Mad wrote:
>>> The Andeomoda and Milkway collision is expected to happen within 4.5
>>> billion years, not much time on the scale of life on this planet.
>>
>> If our life survives another 4.5 billions years then it is likely
>> advanced
>> farther above human than human is above amoeba.
>
>         Yes, but in what way do you think human is advanced more than
> amoeba? Or, Corona virus, for example?

It is lower in entropy.

On 24.1.2022. 22:20, Trolidan7 wrote:
> On 1/24/22 10:04 AM, Mario Petrinovic wrote:
>> On 24.1.2022. 18:50, oot...@hot.ee wrote:
>>> On Sunday, 23 January 2022 at 05:20:02 UTC+2, Popping Mad wrote:
>>>> The Andeomoda and Milkway collision is expected to happen within 4.5
>>>> billion years, not much time on the scale of life on this planet.
>>>
>>> If our life survives another 4.5 billions years then it is likely
>>> advanced
>>> farther above human than human is above amoeba.
>>
>>          Yes, but in what way do you think human is advanced more than
>> amoeba? Or, Corona virus, for example?
>
> It is lower in entropy.

Thanks.
Those things are pretty complicated, and for sure there are some other
characteristics involved, the word "advanced" in that sense doesn't mean
that the organism which has higher entropy is more "bullet proof", I guess.

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Mario Petrinovic wrote:
> On 24.1.2022. 22:20, Trolidan7 wrote:
>> On 1/24/22 10:04 AM, Mario Petrinovic wrote:
>>> On 24.1.2022. 18:50, oot...@hot.ee wrote:
>>>> On Sunday, 23 January 2022 at 05:20:02 UTC+2, Popping Mad wrote:
>>>>> The Andeomoda and Milkway collision is expected to happen within 4.5
>>>>> billion years, not much time on the scale of life on this planet.
>>>>
>>>> If our life survives another 4.5 billions years then it is likely
>>>> advanced
>>>> farther above human than human is above amoeba.
>>>
>>>          Yes, but in what way do you think human is advanced more
>>> than amoeba? Or, Corona virus, for example?
>>
>> It is lower in entropy.
>
>         Thanks.
>         Those things are pretty complicated, and for sure there are
> some other characteristics involved, the word "advanced" in that sense
> doesn't mean that the organism which has higher entropy is more "bullet
> proof", I guess.

Well, you know, if you 'flog a dead horse' you
can not necessarily kill it. That is because it
is already dead.

Now if you cremulate it's bones and ground the
horse into hamburger or make glue from it then
there is still some low entropy in the dead horse.
There may thus be nothing left to fossilize into
a rock formation simulating the bones of a horse

Carnivores themselves fundamentally obtain power
through the two forms of evil from which entropy
is increased. It is based upon 'conservation of
energy'. The nervous systems of carnivores often
at most think of killing other animals as a form
of play. It benefits them to not care when they
kill other animals because from such activities
they obtain energy from the other dead animals
to build and maintain their own body's activities.

Over all, however, there is a significant entropy
increase when plants or animals are killed.

This is based upon the statistical thermodynamic
or information theory definition of entropy. In
essence, entropy is defined in terms of a 'normalized
function' or in other words, the probability of a
state divided by all possible states.

In common terms:

high entropy = evil
low entropy = good

Under some circumstances, entropy can be reduced
through energy inputs.

Entropy is generally increased through conservation
of energy or through randomness.

This is basically statistical thermodynamics. The
heat flow formulations of thermodynamics are generally
simpler.

Mario Petrinovic <mario.petrinovic1@zg.htnet.hr> wrote:
> On 23.1.2022. 4:18, Popping Mad wrote:
>> The Andeomoda and Milkway collision is expected to happen within 4.5
>> billion years, not much time on the scale of life on this planet.
>
> There will be on some other part of the Universe (probably already it is).
>

Not likely. People who believe there is likely life on other planets
misunderstnad how violent the universe is. The odds that a planet can
find a quiet corner in the universe to promote life over 4 billion years
is much longer odds than the total number of possible planets there are.

On Monday, 24 January 2022 at 20:04:21 UTC+2, Mario Petrinovic wrote:
> On 24.1.2022. 18:50, oot...@hot.ee wrote:
> > On Sunday, 23 January 2022 at 05:20:02 UTC+2, Popping Mad wrote:
> >> The Andeomoda and Milkway collision is expected to happen within 4.5
> >> billion years, not much time on the scale of life on this planet.
> >
> > If our life survives another 4.5 billions years then it is likely advanced
> > farther above human than human is above amoeba.
>
> Yes, but in what way do you think human is advanced more than amoeba?
> Or, Corona virus, for example?

I meant in way of capability to perform different activities.

Pandora wrote:
> On Sat, 22 Jan 2022 22:18:55 -0500, Popping Mad <rainbow@colition.gov>
> wrote:
>
>> The Andeomoda and Milkway collision is expected to happen within 4.5
>> billion years, not much time on the scale of life on this planet.
>
> Dramatic as it may sound "colliding" galaxies pass right through each
> other:
> https://apod.nasa.gov/apod/ap190325.html
>
> Much more likely is that the habitability of the earth ends earlier
> due to the evolution of the sun. For humans and other multicellulars
> that may be as soon as ~1.3 billion years from now, for extremophiles
> ~2 billion years:
> https://agupubs.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1002/2015JD023302
>
> But extinction of the biosphere may be much faster because we humans
> are fucking the planet:
> https://phys.org/news/2022-01-strong-evidence-sixth-mass-extinction.html
>
> As is to be expected on the basis of the principle of mediocrity and
> the given
> (1) that we are the first technological species to evolve on the Earth
> and
> (2) we are early in our technological evolution, our lifetime is ~500
> years or less:
> https://doi.org/10.1017/S1473550417000271
>
> where a technological species is defined as "a biological species that
> has developed electronic devices and has the capacity to significantly
> affect their planetary environment. By this definition humans have
> qualified for ~100 years."

Maybe something like mankind could escape to Gliese 710.

It msy be only about .17 light years from the Sun about
1.3 million years in the future.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gliese_710

On 1/23/22 06:37, Pandora wrote:
> Dramatic as it may sound "colliding" galaxies pass right through each
> other:
> https://apod.nasa.gov/apod/ap190325.html

No - it is not that simple. They don't pass through each other without
consequence.

On 1/23/22 12:11, erik simpson wrote:
> The chances of any two stars colliding during such a galaxy
> "collision" are very small indeed and most of them will pass each
> other undisturbed.

but that is not the problem

On 1/24/22 15:46, Glenn wrote:
>> Good job, Mario. Being wrong is something everybody does, admitting when it happens
>> is rarer. Galaxies get big from collisions, and while many are bigger than the Milky Way, it's
>> not a small galaxy. Other issues (some we've contributed to) will do us in sooner anyway.
> You clearly don't even know what being wrong means.

I've looks at a few recent models of the collision and there is no way
that life can survive this collision. There might have been previous
collision but not on this scale and not in the last billion years since
large scale multicelluar orangisms have developed.

Firs tof all, it will set off a chain of supernovas and that right there
is enough to destroy life on this planet.

On 1/24/22 12:50, oot...@hot.ee wrote:
> If our life survives another 4.5 billions years then it is likely advanced
> farther above human than human is above amoeba.

no it won't. Life doesn't advance. It just evolves to changing conditions.

On 1/23/22 06:37, Pandora wrote:
> But extinction of the biosphere may be much faster because we humans
> are fucking the planet:

No - we are a bigger threat to ourselves than the biosphere. We would
go excint before we neded all life on the planet.

On 25.1.2022. 18:03, Ruben Safir wrote:
> Mario Petrinovic <mario.petrinovic1@zg.htnet.hr> wrote:
>> On 23.1.2022. 4:18, Popping Mad wrote:
>>> The Andeomoda and Milkway collision is expected to happen within 4.5
>>> billion years, not much time on the scale of life on this planet.
>>
>> There will be on some other part of the Universe (probably already it is).
>>
>
> Not likely. People who believe there is likely life on other planets
> misunderstnad how violent the universe is. The odds that a planet can
> find a quiet corner in the universe to promote life over 4 billion years
> is much longer odds than the total number of possible planets there are.

Yes, I know how violent the Universe is. Yet, we have found ourselves
in a quieter part of the Universe. This is why I do think that another
life can be quite close to us. It looks like life can form pretty easy.
I mean, we have amino-acids on some moons in our own solar system.

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On 26.1.2022. 3:34, Popping Mad wrote:
> On 1/24/22 12:50, oot...@hot.ee wrote:
>> If our life survives another 4.5 billions years then it is likely advanced
>> farther above human than human is above amoeba.
>
>
> no it won't. Life doesn't advance. It just evolves to changing conditions.

I have the same view. It doesn't have to be that simple, it can
advance somehow, yet, not enough, and the "advancement" definitely isn't
the (main) "force", we, generally, just adjust.
Though all this is pretty complicated. In any way, I don't think that
we will ever have enough of whatever-it-needs-to-be to survive.
The other thing is, it is nowhere written that we have to survive, it
is not us that is the center of the Universe, Universe doesn't exist
because of us.

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On 26.1.2022. 5:47, Mario Petrinovic wrote:
> On 26.1.2022. 3:34, Popping Mad wrote:
>> On 1/24/22 12:50, oot...@hot.ee wrote:
>>> If our life survives another 4.5 billions years then it is likely
>>> advanced
>>> farther above human than human is above amoeba.
>>
>>
>> no it won't.  Life doesn't advance.  It just evolves to changing
>> conditions.
>
>         I have the same view. It doesn't have to be that simple, it can
> advance somehow, yet, not enough, and the "advancement" definitely isn't
> the (main) "force", we, generally, just adjust.
>         Though all this is pretty complicated. In any way, I don't
> think that we will ever have enough of whatever-it-needs-to-be to survive.
>         The other thing is, it is nowhere written that we have to
> survive, it is not us that is the center of the Universe, Universe
> doesn't exist because of us.

I mean, I am 60, I'll die soon, who cares? We all will "go extinct"
when we die, :) . The only one who cares is Pope, who just wants to have
a bigger herd of people who worship him, nothing else. Big deal.
Insignificant in the Universe, and significant only to Pope. It even
isn't significant to me, lol.

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Pandora <pandora@knoware.nl> wrote:
> On Tue, 25 Jan 2022 21:33:02 -0500, Popping Mad <rainbow@colition.gov>
> wrote:
>
>>On 1/24/22 15:46, Glenn wrote:
>>>> Good job, Mario. Being wrong is something everybody does, admitting when it happens
>>>> is rarer. Galaxies get big from collisions, and while many are bigger than the Milky Way, it's
>>>> not a small galaxy. Other issues (some we've contributed to) will do us in sooner anyway.
>>> You clearly don't even know what being wrong means.
>>
>>
>>I've looks at a few recent models of the collision and there is no way
>>that life can survive this collision. There might have been previous
>>collision but not on this scale and not in the last billion years since
>>large scale multicelluar orangisms have developed.
>>
>>Firs tof all, it will set off a chain of supernovas and that right there
>>is enough to destroy life on this planet.
>
> On the contrary, what you get is a burst of star formation, as can be
> seen in the Antennae Galaxies:
>
> https://apod.nasa.gov/apod/ap170428.html
>
> https://apod.nasa.gov/apod/ap201203.html
>

Run the numbers yourself. You will get dozens of super novas and other
basts which will sterialize every life force in an entire sector.

This planet has beat astrnomical odds for being in such a docile state
and there is no way it will surive with life intact the merger of the 3
galexies.

> Ever so many opportunities for new solar systems with rocky planets in
> the habitable zone.

There is zero chance of there being any other planets like earth
NOW...anywhere... because the universe is rocked with violence.

One supernova would had ended life on earth. In fact, it might well had
been a supernova that supplied the solar system with enoughmaterial for
life to start here. Another would had ended it.

You can't just count stars and planets to determin the odds of life
developing. You need to account for space climate and the Solar system,
in that regard, is unique.

The Earth is about 4.3 billion years old and life has existed for about
3.4 billion of which it was only about half a billion since the Cambrian
explosion.

If during any time in the half billion years we had experienced an
common and routine happenstance in the local area, life would had
ended... flat out.

Just do the math on how many pulsars, black holes, super novas etc etc
etc happen and you will see that life is a huge long shot, and advanced
life even less so.

68 million years ago life was completely transformed by a minor meter
blow...

On 26.1.2022. 21:29, Ruben Safir wrote:
> 68 million years ago life was completely transformed by a minor meter
> blow...

Hm, it'll be extremely interesting if this event was re-dated. The
last time I checked it was 66 mya.

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