For the permanent Usenet record... and for others to discuss...

*Sideloading is not evil* ...in fact... *sideloading is normal*

Bear in mind on the topic of "sideloading", there is only a single common
consumer operating system that doesn't allow you to go to any developer's
URL pointing to a package to load it. Only iOS. Just iOS. Nobody else.

It needs to be repeated because "sideloading" isn't anything special.
*No other operating system disallows installing a package by URL but iOS*

The reason I make this point is that sideloading isn't something evel; it's
not something risky; it's not something special. It's quite normal.

It's only considered "evil" on one consumer operating system & one alone.

We could go into _why_ Apple considers installing an executable by URL
evil, since it plays into Apple's overall strategy of making money off of
limiting the consumers' choices - but suffice to say sideloading is normal.

*Only in one operating system is installing a non-mothership app evil*
--
Posted out of the goodness of my heart to disseminate useful information
which, in this case, is to faithfully explain that sideloading is not evil.

On 4/2/2023 4:49 PM, Andy Burnelli wrote:
> For the permanent Usenet record... and for others to discuss...
>   *Sideloading is not evil* ...in fact... *sideloading is normal*
>
> Bear in mind on the topic of "sideloading", there is only a single
> common consumer operating system that doesn't allow you to go to any
> developer's URL pointing to a package to load it. Only iOS. Just iOS.
> Nobody else.
>
> It needs to be repeated because "sideloading" isn't anything special.
> *No other operating system disallows installing a package by URL but iOS*
>
> The reason I make this point is that sideloading isn't something evel;
> it's not something risky; it's not something special. It's quite normal.
>
> It's only considered "evil" on one consumer operating system & one alone.
>
> We could go into _why_ Apple considers installing an executable by URL
> evil, since it plays into Apple's overall strategy of making money off
> of limiting the consumers' choices - but suffice to say sideloading is
> normal.
>  *Only in one operating system is installing a non-mothership app evil*

Yes and it is why Android is such a clusterfuck of malware.

On 4/3/2023 9:52 PM, John wrote:

> Yes and it is why Android is such a clusterfuck of malware.

Android had far less malware than iOS for more than five years in a row.

On 2023-04-03 19:04, Big Dog wrote:
> On 4/3/2023 9:52 PM, John wrote:
>
>> Yes and it is why Android is such a clusterfuck of malware.
>
> Android had far less malware than iOS for more than five years in a row.

I'm going to need a cite for that, sunshine.

Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> writes:

> On 2023-04-03 19:04, Big Dog wrote:
>> On 4/3/2023 9:52 PM, John wrote:
>>
>>> Yes and it is why Android is such a clusterfuck of malware.
>> Android had far less malware than iOS for more than five years in a
>> row.
>
> I'm going to need a cite for that, sunshine.

But you do not have to do the equivalent for:
Yes and it is why Android is such a clusterfuck of malware.

Curious indeed.

--
Cecil Westerhof
Senior Software Engineer
LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/cecilwesterhof

On 2023-04-03 21:30, Cecil Westerhof wrote:
> Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> writes:
>
>> On 2023-04-03 19:04, Big Dog wrote:
>>> On 4/3/2023 9:52 PM, John wrote:
>>>
>>>> Yes and it is why Android is such a clusterfuck of malware.
>>> Android had far less malware than iOS for more than five years in a
>>> row.
>>
>> I'm going to need a cite for that, sunshine.
>
> But you do not have to do the equivalent for:
> Yes and it is why Android is such a clusterfuck of malware.
>
> Curious indeed.
>

On is purely opinion and one states a testable proposition.

Does that help you understand?

On 2023-04-03 21:30, Cecil Westerhof wrote:
> Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> writes:
>
>> On 2023-04-03 19:04, Big Dog wrote:
>>> On 4/3/2023 9:52 PM, John wrote:
>>>
>>>> Yes and it is why Android is such a clusterfuck of malware.
>>> Android had far less malware than iOS for more than five years in a
>>> row.
>>
>> I'm going to need a cite for that, sunshine.
>
> But you do not have to do the equivalent for:
> Yes and it is why Android is such a clusterfuck of malware.
>
> Curious indeed.
>

But since you asked:

<https://www.bleepingcomputer.com/news/security/android-malware-apps-with-2-million-installs-spotted-on-google-play/>

<https://www.bleepingcomputer.com/news/security/new-hook-android-malware-lets-hackers-remotely-control-your-phone/>

<https://www.tomsguide.com/news/hackers-have-developed-a-clever-new-way-to-add-malware-to-android-apps>

On 2023-04-04, Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
>>> On 2023-04-03 19:04, Big Dog wrote:
>>>> On 4/3/2023 9:52 PM, John wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Yes and it is why Android is such a clusterfuck of malware.
>>>> Android had far less malware than iOS for more than five years in a
>>>> row.
>>>
>>> I'm going to need a cite for that, sunshine.
>>
>> But you do not have to do the equivalent for:
>> Yes and it is why Android is such a clusterfuck of malware.
>>
>> Curious indeed.
>>
>
> But since you asked:
>
> <https://www.bleepingcomputer.com/news/security/android-malware-apps-with-2-million-installs-spotted-on-google-play/>
>
> <https://www.bleepingcomputer.com/news/security/new-hook-android-malware-lets-hackers-remotely-control-your-phone/>
>
> <https://www.tomsguide.com/news/hackers-have-developed-a-clever-new-way-to-add-malware-to-android-apps>

Knowing how Apple users never understand security issues because they don't
actually read anything before they respond to it - they don't ever think
(which is why they're so excited by emoji and they ignore all iOS bugs).

Curious that not a single one of those "references" compares iOS malware to
Android malware. Maybe this alan didn't read the topic before posting?

As an example, I put into Google the same title of the last url above and
just changed Android to iOS and that alone, not surprisingly, found far
more similar articles but for iOS and not for Android.

These are just as meaningless but to make the point clear how poorly the
iOS devices handle security, let's just list them exactly as alan did.

https://thehackernews.com/2020/03/iphone-iOS-spyware.html
https://thehackernews.com/2019/04/exodus-ios-malware.html
https://thehackernews.com/2016/03/how-to-hack-iphone.html
https://thehackernews.com/2016/01/ios-apps-jspatch-hack.html
https://thehackernews.com/2015/10/apple-ios-malware-apps.html
https://thehackernews.com/2015/10/xcodeghost-ios-malware.html
https://thehackernews.com/2015/10/ios-malware-attack.html
https://thehackernews.com/2015/10/ios-malware-attack.html
https://thehackernews.com/2015/09/ios-malware-cyber-attack.html
https://thehackernews.com/2014/11/suspected-wirelurker-ios-malware.html
https://thehackernews.com/2014/08/adthief-chinese-malware-infects-over.html
https://thehackernews.com/2020/03/iphone-iOS-spyware.html

And that's just from one up to date web site.

I'm not saying this proves how insecure iOS is nowadays compared to
Android. I'm just saying alan's response was just as meaningless.

Maybe alan didn't read the thread before he had responded?

Not only is sideloading normal on almost all computers, but the iOS devices
have been far worse in terms of malware than Android for many years now.

I guess alan thought we wouldn't notice he has no basis for his claims.
Besides, the topic is sideloading, which all normal operating systems do.

Andy Burnelli hat am 03.04.2023 um 01:49 geschrieben:
> For the permanent Usenet record... and for others to discuss...
>
> *Sideloading is not evil* ...in fact... *sideloading is normal*
>
> Bear in mind on the topic of "sideloading", there is only a single common
> consumer operating system that doesn't allow you to go to any developer's
> URL pointing to a package to load it. Only iOS. Just iOS. Nobody else.
>
> It needs to be repeated because "sideloading" isn't anything special.
> *No other operating system disallows installing a package by URL but iOS*
>
> The reason I make this point is that sideloading isn't something evel; it's
> not something risky; it's not something special. It's quite normal.
>
> It's only considered "evil" on one consumer operating system & one alone.
>
> We could go into _why_ Apple considers installing an executable by URL
> evil, since it plays into Apple's overall strategy of making money off of
> limiting the consumers' choices - but suffice to say sideloading is normal.
>
> *Only in one operating system is installing a non-mothership app evil*

Imagine someone paying good money for linux or windows pro and then they
can only buy all their software from redhat or microsoft & nobody else.

That's ios. One company alone determines ALL your software choices.

Who would put up with that on windows or on linux or on android?

It's no wonder ios has so many software holes compared to android.

On 2023-04-04 08:20, Silvano wrote:

> Imagine someone paying good money for linux or windows pro and then they
> can only buy all their software from redhat or microsoft & nobody else.
>
> That's ios. One company alone determines ALL your software choices.

They don't determine your choices. You do.

They provide a free gateway for apps for your iOS (iPad) appliances.
Said gateway is accessible to all (for a nominal fee) to publish
whatever apps they like (some content conditions apply).

Said gateway scans the code for likely malware (etc), thereby providing
added value (at no charge) to iOS (iPad) users.

In the meantime, this behaviour of Apple's is so objectionable that it
sold an average 1,000,000 iPhones every 37.7 hours in 2022.

The crybabies have to pine for "how it used to be" for pitifully weak
examples of why Apple is "bad" for their s/w distribution model when the
model the crybabies hanker for is a base cause of malware distribution.

--
“Donald Trump and his allies and supporters are a clear and present
danger to American democracy.”
- J Michael Luttig - 2022-06-16
- Former US appellate court judge (R) testifying to the January 6
committee

Silvano <Silvano@noncisonopernessuno.it> wrote:

> Imagine someone paying good money for linux or windows pro…

Anyone paying for Linux or Windows - with good or bad money - gets what
they deserve.

Operating Systems are free now for consumers. Companies pay for Windows
support and companies pay for Linux support.

No one cares about Operating Systems any more. No one buys any computer
to run an Operating System.

Besides, nearly all computers these days run Unix. Unix runs on everything
from IBM mainframes to Apple watches. All phones. All tablets. Macs.
Linux servers. The entire internet.

The planet runs on Unix. Anyone paying to be stranded on Windows Island is
a fool.

On 4/3/2023 7:04 PM, Big Dog wrote:

<snip>

> Android had far less malware than iOS for more than five years in a row.

It's not true when you include sideloading.

--
“If you are not an expert on a subject, then your opinions about it
really do matter less than the opinions of experts. It's not
indoctrination nor elitism. It's just that you don't know as much as
they do about the subject.”—Tin Foil Awards

In article <u0hdr1$3f65k$1@dont-email.me>, sms
<scharf.steven@geemail.com> wrote:

> > Android had far less malware than iOS for more than five years in a row.
>
> It's not true when you include sideloading.

it's also not true when you don't.

<https://www.zdnet.com/article/play-store-identified-as-main-distributio
n-vector-for-most-android-malware/>
The official Google Play Store has been identified as the primary
source of malware installs on Android devices in a recent academic
study ‹ considered the largest one of its kind carried out to date.
....
The results showed that around 67% of the malicious app
installs researchers identified came from the Google Play Store.

<https://www.tomsguide.com/news/malware-hits-10-million-android-users-de
lete-these-apps-right-now>
Malware and adware continue to be a major problem on the Play Store

Alan Browne hat am 04.04.2023 um 15:30 geschrieben:
>> That's ios. One company alone determines ALL your software choices.
>
> They don't determine your choices. You do.

It seems you haven't kept up on technology for about a dozen years or so.
You need to get out more often to realize the world isn't as you see it.

You are correct that you can get programs outside of the windows store even
though microsoft would love to lock you into *only* getting the apps in
their store (mostly because microsoft gets a cut on all the app costs).

But only a very scared person would put up with Microsoft determining the
choice of software available to you to put on your desktop or laptop pc.

Same with linux or android. Only a very scared person, almost always with
zero technical abilities, would want redhat or google or microsoft to make
all the decisions already for you as to what software was available to you.

> They provide a free gateway for apps for your iOS (iPad) appliances.
> Said gateway is accessible to all (for a nominal fee) to publish
> whatever apps they like (some content conditions apply).

With ios, one company alone determines your choices which nobody on windows
would put up with, nor on linux, nor on android.

The reason ios users put up with one company determining all their choices
is just that they're scared so they want that one company to make their
choices for them.

Nobody on windows or linux or android wants microsoft or redhat or google
to be the sole decision maker of what sofware choices are available to you.

> Said gateway scans the code for likely malware (etc), thereby providing
> added value (at no charge) to iOS (iPad) users.

What does scanning code for malware have to do with installing apps?
Every operating system automatically scans for malware natively nowadays.

Maybe you haven't read any news in about ten or fifteen years?

> In the meantime, this behaviour of Apple's is so objectionable that it
> sold an average 1,000,000 iPhones every 37.7 hours in 2022.

That makes sense because apple sells to people who don't know anything.
And there are a lot more of them than there are proficient people.

> The crybabies have to pine for "how it used to be" for pitifully weak
> examples of why Apple is "bad" for their s/w distribution model when the
> model the crybabies hanker for is a base cause of malware distribution.

It's only a very scared set of people who would put up with one company
determining the choice of software available to you to put on your phone.

On 2023-04-04, nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> wrote:
> In article <u0hdr1$3f65k$1@dont-email.me>, sms
><scharf.steven@geemail.com> wrote:
>
>> > Android had far less malware than iOS for more than five years in a row.
>>
>> It's not true when you include sideloading.
>
> it's also not true when you don't.
>
><https://www.zdnet.com/article/play-store-identified-as-main-distributio
> n-vector-for-most-android-malware/>
> The official Google Play Store has been identified as the primary
> source of malware installs on Android devices in a recent academic
> study ‹ considered the largest one of its kind carried out to date.
> ...
> The results showed that around 67% of the malicious app
> installs researchers identified came from the Google Play Store.
>
><https://www.tomsguide.com/news/malware-hits-10-million-android-users-de
> lete-these-apps-right-now>
> Malware and adware continue to be a major problem on the Play Store

Bets on whether sms adds these to his little document?

--
E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my ravenous SPAM filter.
I often ignore posts from Google. Use a real news client instead.

JR

Am 04.04.23 um 04:04 schrieb Big Dog:
> On 4/3/2023 9:52 PM, John wrote:
>
>> Yes and it is why Android is such a clusterfuck of malware.
>
> Android had far less malware than iOS for more than five years in a row.

Burnelli, you are a stupid crétin.

--
Gutta cavat lapidem (Ovid)

On 4/3/2023 7:04 PM, Big Dog wrote:
> On 4/3/2023 9:52 PM, John wrote:
>
>> Yes and it is why Android is such a clusterfuck of malware.
>
> Android had far less malware than iOS for more than five years in a row.

LMAO!!

On Tue, 4 Apr 2023 07:56:32 -0700, sms wrote:

>> Android had far less malware than iOS for more than five years in a row.
>
> It's not true when you include sideloading.

When is the last time you owned an Android phone & installed an app?
If it's more than five years ago, then that's why you said that. :->

Things have changed a lot in the last five years with Google Play Protect.

If it's more than five years since you have touched an Android phone, you
need to catch up on how Google has improved the GPP instant & daily scans.
https://developers.google.com/android/play-protect

Look at the part where it makes no distinction between Google Play Store
apps and apps sideloaded from outside the Google Play Store. Same scan.

Let me know if you need to know more because it's way better than what
Apple does as Apple doesn't scan every day all the apps on the device.

Bob Campbell <nunya@none.none> writes:

> No one cares about Operating Systems any more. No one buys any computer
> to run an Operating System.

It seems I am no one.

--
Cecil Westerhof
Senior Software Engineer
LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/cecilwesterhof

On 4/4/2023 9:04 AM, John wrote:
>>> Yes and it is why Android is such a clusterfuck of malware.
>>
>> Android had far less malware than iOS for more than five years in a row.
>
> LMAO!!

The Apple crazies believe only Apple's propaganda but they don't realize
iOS has the most exploited security holes for about five years running.

There are so many holes in iOS that the federal government stopped asking
for a back door because iOS is so insecure the front door was already open.

--
David E. Ross
<http://www.rossde.com/>

Beyond Meat and other such vegetarian meat substitutes
represent the ultimate in ultra-processed foods. Real
meat is natural. Beyond Meat is definitely not.

On 2023-04-04 09:46, David E. Ross wrote:
> On 4/4/2023 9:04 AM, John wrote:
>>>> Yes and it is why Android is such a clusterfuck of malware.
>>>
>>> Android had far less malware than iOS for more than five years in a row.
>>
>> LMAO!!
>
> The Apple crazies believe only Apple's propaganda but they don't realize
> iOS has the most exploited security holes for about five years running.

Proof please.

>
> There are so many holes in iOS that the federal government stopped asking
> for a back door because iOS is so insecure the front door was already open.

Proof please.

On 4/4/2023 9:50 AM, Alan wrote:
>> The Apple crazies believe only Apple's propaganda but they don't realize
>> iOS has the most exploited security holes for about five years running.
>
> Proof please.

Over the past five years the number of open holes in iOS has been huge.

If you don't believe it, then you look up the number of zero day holes in
iOS (which is a dozen to fifteen a year for five years in a row!) and
compare that to Android which isn't even half of that.

Then look up the exploited holes, and you'll find half the iOS holes are
exploited because it takes Apple so long to get a release out the door.

This is widely known statistics where I'm not your personal secretary.
Either believe what everyone already knows or ignore them.

If you want to dispute stats, go and find your own stats for that since
you're the only one who doesn't know iOS has twice the holes of Android.

--
David E. Ross
<http://www.rossde.com/>

Beyond Meat and other such vegetarian meat substitutes
represent the ultimate in ultra-processed foods. Real
meat is natural. Beyond Meat is definitely not.

On 4/4/2023 9:39 AM, Maxmillian wrote:
> On Tue, 4 Apr 2023 07:56:32 -0700, sms wrote:
>
>>> Android had far less malware than iOS for more than five years in a row.
>>
>> It's not true when you include sideloading.
>
> When is the last time you owned an Android phone & installed an app?
> If it's more than five years ago, then that's why you said that. :->

Uh, I own multiple Android phones right now. A Pixel 7 Pro is my main
Android device. I do sideload apps, on occasion, and use F-Droid.

--
“If you are not an expert on a subject, then your opinions about it
really do matter less than the opinions of experts. It's not
indoctrination nor elitism. It's just that you don't know as much as
they do about the subject.”—Tin Foil Awards

On 4/4/2023 10:47 AM, David E. Ross wrote:
> On 4/4/2023 9:50 AM, Alan wrote:
>>> The Apple crazies believe only Apple's propaganda but they don't realize
>>> iOS has the most exploited security holes for about five years running.
>>
>> Proof please.
>
> Over the past five years the number of open holes in iOS has been huge.
>
> If you don't believe it, then you look up the number of zero day holes in
> iOS (which is a dozen to fifteen a year for five years in a row!) and
> compare that to Android which isn't even half of that.
>
> Then look up the exploited holes, and you'll find half the iOS holes are
> exploited because it takes Apple so long to get a release out the door.
>
> This is widely known statistics where I'm not your personal secretary.
> Either believe what everyone already knows or ignore them.
>
> If you want to dispute stats, go and find your own stats for that since
> you're the only one who doesn't know iOS has twice the holes of Android.

All true, but the discussion was not about zero-day exploits it was
about side-loading apps.

--
“If you are not an expert on a subject, then your opinions about it
really do matter less than the opinions of experts. It's not
indoctrination nor elitism. It's just that you don't know as much as
they do about the subject.”—Tin Foil Awards

On 2023-04-04 10:47, David E. Ross wrote:
> On 4/4/2023 9:50 AM, Alan wrote:
>>> The Apple crazies believe only Apple's propaganda but they don't realize
>>> iOS has the most exploited security holes for about five years running.
>>
>> Proof please.
>
> Over the past five years the number of open holes in iOS has been huge.

That's an "ASSERTION"

>
> If you don't believe it, then you look up the number of zero day holes in
> iOS (which is a dozen to fifteen a year for five years in a row!) and
> compare that to Android which isn't even half of that.

No...

....YOU look it up.

You're the one making the claims.

>
> Then look up the exploited holes, and you'll find half the iOS holes are
> exploited because it takes Apple so long to get a release out the door.
>
> This is widely known statistics where I'm not your personal secretary.
> Either believe what everyone already knows or ignore them.
>
> If you want to dispute stats, go and find your own stats for that since
> you're the only one who doesn't know iOS has twice the holes of Android.

You've presented no stats at all.