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tech / alt.astronomy / Superhabitable planets - Bigger, better, more suited for biology

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* Superhabitable planets - Bigger, better, more suited for biologya425couple
+- Re: Superhabitable planets - Bigger, better, more suited for biologyWhisper
`* Re: Superhabitable planets - Bigger, better, more suited for biologyDaniel65
 +* Re: Superhabitable planets - Bigger, better, more suited for biologyWhisper
 |`- Re: Superhabitable planets - Bigger, better, more suited for biologyDaniel65
 `* Re: Superhabitable planets - Bigger, better, more suited for biologyR Kym Horsell
  +* Re: Superhabitable planets - Bigger, better, more suited for biologyWhisper
  |+* Re: Superhabitable planets - Bigger, better, more suited for biologyCaselli Luigi
  ||`* Re: Superhabitable planets - Bigger, better, more suited for biologyR Kym Horsell
  || `- Re: Superhabitable planets - Bigger, better, more suited for biologyDaniel65
  |`- Re: Superhabitable planets - Bigger, better, more suited for biologyDaniel65
  `- Re: Superhabitable planets - Bigger, better, more suited for biologyDaniel65

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Superhabitable planets - Bigger, better, more suited for biology

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from
https://www.space.com/superhabitable-planets

Superhabitable planets
By Charles Q. Choi Contributions from Vicky Stein published 2 days ago

Bigger, better, more suited for biology: let's not overlook
superhabitable planets with potential.

An artist's depiction of a rocky, Earth-size exoplanet. We haven't found
any planets exactly as habitable as Earth, but some planets might be
even better for life than ours: superhabitable worlds. (Image credit:
NASA Ames/SETI Institute/JPL-Caltech)
Jump to:
The search
Some contenders
Additional resources

A superhabitable planet is a world that might have an even better chance
at hosting life than our own home, Earth.

Because Earth is the only known inhabited planet and its life depends on
liquid water, efforts to identify exoplanets that could host life focus
on Earth-like worlds. But some researchers think there are other types
of planets that could offer conditions for life as good as — or even
better than — Earth. In fact, some scientists argue that focusing only
on Earth-like worlds might be too "anthropocentric and geocentric,"
blinding us to the possibilities of exobiology.

"We are so over-focused on finding a mirror image of Earth that we may
overlook a planet that is even more well-suited for life," Dirk
Schulze-Makuch, an astrobiologist at Washington State University and the
Technical University of Berlin, told Space.com.

HOW DO SCIENTISTS LOOK FOR SUPERHABITABLE PLANETS?
Click here for more Space.com videos...
CLOSE
To search for potentially superhabitable exoplanets, Schulze-Makuch and
his team investigated the Kepler Object of Interest Exoplanet Archive,
focusing on 4,500 planetary systems that likely possessed rocky planets
within their stars' habitable zones, where liquid water can persist. The
researchers published their findings in a 2020 paper in the journal
Astrobiology.

In addition to looking at planetary systems with yellow dwarf stars like
our sun, the scientists also looked at orange dwarf stars, which are
cooler, dimmer and less massive than our sun.

"Our sun is actually not the best kind of star for hosting a planet with
lots of life on it," Schulze-Makuch told Space.com.

Orange dwarf stars are about 50% more common than yellow dwarfs in the
Milky Way. Whereas our sun has a lifetime estimated at less than 10
billion years, orange dwarfs have lifetimes of 20 billion to 70 billion
years. Since complex life took about 3.5 billion years to appear on
Earth, the longer lifetimes of orange dwarf stars could give planets
within their habitable zones more time to develop life and accrue
biodiversity.

Earth is about 4.5 billion years old, so the researchers speculated the
sweet spot for life would be a planet between 5 billion to 8 billion
years old.

Click here for more Space.com videos...
The size and mass of a planet can also influence how well it can support
life, the researchers wrote. A rocky planet that is larger than Earth
would have more habitable surface area, and potentially a thicker, more
stable atmosphere. A planet with about 1.5 times Earth's mass would
likely retain its interior heat longer, which in turn would help keep
its core molten and its protective magnetic field active for a greater
timespan in which life might have the chance to arise and evolve.

Worlds that are slightly warmer than Earth by about 8 degrees Fahrenheit
(5 degrees Celsius) might be superhabitable, since they could have
larger tropical zones which on Earth foster more biodiversity. However,
warmer planets might also need more moisture, since greater heat could
expand deserts.

In addition, planets with the same amount of land area as Earth but
broken up into smaller continents might be more habitable. When
continents become particularly large (such as Earth's past continent
Gondwana, about 500 million years ago), their centers are far from
oceans, often rendering the interiors of large continents vast,
inhospitable deserts. Moreover, Earth's shallow waters have a greater
biodiversity than its deep oceans, so scientists speculate that planets
with shallower waters could support more life.

WHAT ARE SOME SUPERHABITABLE PLANETS?
Click here for more Space.com videos...
Advertisement

All in all, Schulze-Makuch and team identified 24 potentially
superhabitable planets. None of these worlds met all the criteria the
researchers drew up for superhabitable planets, but one did meet at
least two — KOI 5715.01.

KOI (Kepler Object of Interest) 5725.01 is a planet about 5.5 billion
years old and 1.8 to 2.4 times Earth's diameter orbiting an orange dwarf
about 2,965 light-years away. It might have an average surface
temperature about 4.3 degrees F (2.4 degrees C) cooler than that of
Earth, but if it has more greenhouse gases than Earth to trap heat, it
might be superhabitable, the researchers wrote.

Schulze-Makuch's own favorite potentially superhabitable world from
these 24 was KOI 5554.01. This planet is about 6.5 billion years old,
with a diameter 0.72 to 1.29 times that of Earth, orbiting a yellow
dwarf about 700 light-years from Earth.

"I really liked the average surface temperature — about 27 degrees C [80
degrees F]," Schulze-Makuch said. "And it's probably about Earth's size,
and a little bit older than Earth."

Click here for more Space.com videos...
All 24 of these potentially superhabitable planets are more than 100
light-years from Earth. This makes them too far for NASA's Transiting
Exoplanet Survey Satellite (TESS) spacecraft to capture high-quality
images from to learn more about them.

Still, Schulze-Makuch noted that future spacecraft, such as the newly
launched James Webb Space Telescope, NASA's LUVOIR space observatory
mission concept and the European Space Agency's PLATO space telescope,
could shed light on these worlds.

"We caution that while we search for superhabitable planets, that
doesn't mean that they necessarily contain life," Schulze-Makuch said.
"A planet can be habitable or superhabitable but uninhabited."

ADDITIONAL RESOURCES AND READING
Advertisement

If you're thrilled by the idea of exoplanets, poke around the NASA
Exoplanet Archive yourself! If you want to read more about how different
and bizarre other planets might be, dive in to astronomer Michael
Summers and physicist James Trefil's 2017 book "Exoplanets: Diamond
Worlds, Super Earths, Pulsar Planets, and the New Search for Life beyond
Our Solar System." And for anyone looking to dream about living on
another world, get lost in this TED playlist about becoming — and
thriving as — an extraterrestrial.

Bibliography
Brennan, Pat. "The Habitable Zone | The Search For Life." Exoplanet
Exploration: Planets Beyond our Solar System, April 2, 2021.
https://exoplanets.nasa.gov/search-for-life/habitable-zone.
Schulze-Makuch, Dirk, René Heller, and Edward Guinan. "In Search for a
Planet Better than Earth: Top Contenders for a Superhabitable World."
Astrobiology 20, no. 12 (December 1, 2020): 1394–1404.
https://doi.org/10.1089/ast.2019.2161.
Join our Space Forums to keep talking space on the latest missions,
night sky and more! And if you have a news tip, correction or comment,
let us know at: community@space.com.

Charles Q. Choi
Charles Q. Choi

Re: Superhabitable planets - Bigger, better, more suited for biology

<622309a8$1@news.ausics.net>

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 by: Whisper - Sat, 5 Mar 2022 06:56 UTC

On 5/03/2022 5:45 am, casagiannoni@optimum.net wrote:
> OK, but don't forget :
>
> Distance = Speed x Time
>
> Interstellar distances are so very great, as to preclude any chance of
> travel, or practical communications.

Correct. It's like watching porn - you can look but never touch.

Re: Superhabitable planets - Bigger, better, more suited for biology

<svvm2s$sgh$3@dont-email.me>

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From: danie...@eternal-september.org (Daniel65)
Newsgroups: alt.astronomy,alt.books.arthur-clarke
Subject: Re: Superhabitable planets - Bigger, better, more suited for biology
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 by: Daniel65 - Sat, 5 Mar 2022 12:46 UTC

casagiannoni@optimum.net wrote on 5/3/22 5:45 am:
> OK, but don't forget :
>
> Distance = Speed x Time
>
> Interstellar distances are so very great, as to preclude any chance of
> travel, or practical communications.
>
Could someone please change the record?? This one is broken!!
--
Daniel

Re: Superhabitable planets - Bigger, better, more suited for biology

<62235c1d$1@news.ausics.net>

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 by: Whisper - Sat, 5 Mar 2022 12:48 UTC

On 5/03/2022 11:46 pm, Daniel65 wrote:
> casagiannoni@optimum.net wrote on 5/3/22 5:45 am:
>> OK, but don't forget :
>>
>> Distance = Speed x Time
>>
>> Interstellar distances are so very great, as to preclude any chance of
>> travel, or practical communications.
>>
> Could someone please change the record?? This one is broken!!

It's an important message though. Some people actually think we'll
reach interstellar planets one day lol - clueless.

Re: Superhabitable planets - Bigger, better, more suited for biology

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From: kym...@kymhorsell.com (R Kym Horsell)
Newsgroups: alt.astronomy,alt.books.arthur-clarke
Subject: Re: Superhabitable planets - Bigger, better, more suited for biology
Date: Sat, 5 Mar 2022 13:03:57 -0000 (UTC)
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 by: R Kym Horsell - Sat, 5 Mar 2022 13:03 UTC

In alt.astronomy Daniel65 <daniel47@eternal-september.org> wrote:
> casagiannoni@optimum.net wrote on 5/3/22 5:45 am:
>> OK, but don't forget :
>> Distance = Speed x Time
>> Interstellar distances are so very great, as to preclude any chance of
>> travel, or practical communications.
> Could someone please change the record?? This one is broken!!

The same refrain we've seen for 30y on the climate groups.
".003% of the atm cain chang nuttin!"
"you cain walk aroun da worl you need to use an airplane".
"you'll nebba replas da hors n buggy"

--
Top reasons why Mr Stephenson's "railway" will never work:
(1) The project will drain the King's treasury.
(2) The noise will scare the cows and sour their milk.
(3) At 37 mph air will be sucked out of the passengers' lungs.
(4) The vibration will injure passengers.
(5) The common people will be encouraged to come to London.
-- Arthur Wellesley Duke of Wellington, c1828

UPDATE:
In 1830 then-PM Wellesley opened the first Liverpool to Manchester line.
Almost immediately there was a fatality -- Liverpool MP Wm Huskisson
(Tory) tried to cross the track just as "The Rocket" arrived.
It's a matter of debate whether the accident was caused by the fact Liverpool
and Manchester were then in different time zones, some 5 mins apart.
The Great Western Railway ushered in the era of standardised times.

Re: Superhabitable planets - Bigger, better, more suited for biology

<622362a2$1@news.ausics.net>

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 by: Whisper - Sat, 5 Mar 2022 13:16 UTC

On 6/03/2022 12:03 am, R Kym Horsell wrote:
> In alt.astronomy Daniel65 <daniel47@eternal-september.org> wrote:
>> casagiannoni@optimum.net wrote on 5/3/22 5:45 am:
>>> OK, but don't forget :
>>> Distance = Speed x Time
>>> Interstellar distances are so very great, as to preclude any chance of
>>> travel, or practical communications.
>> Could someone please change the record?? This one is broken!!
>
> The same refrain we've seen for 30y on the climate groups.
> ".003% of the atm cain chang nuttin!"
> "you cain walk aroun da worl you need to use an airplane".
> "you'll nebba replas da hors n buggy"
>

All completely different. Humans can't survive long term off the earth.
We would be defeated by the effects of gravity/radiation and many
other challenges etc. Even if we could design transportation to get to
an extra solar planet (100% impossible imo) we'd die before we got to
0.0001% of the journey.

Journeys to extra solar planets and contacting aliens are *never* going
to happen so let's frame the discussions here within realistic
boundaries. This isn't a sci-fi group.

Re: Superhabitable planets - Bigger, better, more suited for biology

<t00e0d$qu5$1@gioia.aioe.org>

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From: case...@anyspamrefusediol.it (Caselli Luigi)
Newsgroups: alt.astronomy,alt.books.arthur-clarke
Subject: Re: Superhabitable planets - Bigger, better, more suited for biology
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 by: Caselli Luigi - Sat, 5 Mar 2022 19:34 UTC

Il 05/03/2022 14:16, Whisper ha scritto:
> All completely different.  Humans can't survive long term off the earth.
>  We would be defeated by the effects of gravity/radiation and many
> other challenges etc.  Even if we could design transportation to get to
> an extra solar planet (100% impossible imo) we'd die before we got to
> 0.0001% of the journey.
>
> Journeys to extra solar planets and contacting aliens are *never* going
> to happen so let's frame the discussions here within realistic
> boundaries.  This isn't a sci-fi group.

If you assume that the current physics is right you are right.
The only way to send something around the universe is using probes and
robots like the Voyagers.
Men are to weak for long travels in the space.

The only other possibility is a complete revolution in physics.
Maybe someone unifying Gravity and Quantistic Mechanic and finding some
way to radically shorten distances.
But for now this is sci-fi...

Luigi Caselli

Re: Superhabitable planets - Bigger, better, more suited for biology

<t00q8p$4sq$1@gioia.aioe.org>

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Newsgroups: alt.astronomy,alt.books.arthur-clarke
Subject: Re: Superhabitable planets - Bigger, better, more suited for biology
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 by: R Kym Horsell - Sat, 5 Mar 2022 23:03 UTC

In alt.astronomy Caselli Luigi <caselli@anyspamrefusediol.it> wrote:
> Il 05/03/2022 14:16, Whisper ha scritto:
>> All completely different. Humans can't survive long term off the earth.
>> We would be defeated by the effects of gravity/radiation and many
>> other challenges etc. Even if we could design transportation to get to
>> an extra solar planet (100% impossible imo) we'd die before we got to
>> 0.0001% of the journey.
>> Journeys to extra solar planets and contacting aliens are *never* going
>> to happen so let's frame the discussions here within realistic
>> boundaries. This isn't a sci-fi group.
> If you assume that the current physics is right you are right.
> The only way to send something around the universe is using probes and
> robots like the Voyagers.
> Men are to weak for long travels in the space.
> The only other possibility is a complete revolution in physics.
> Maybe someone unifying Gravity and Quantistic Mechanic and finding some
> way to radically shorten distances.
> But for now this is sci-fi...
> Luigi Caselli

Even SF is too conservative compared with reality.

Larry Niven had a good argument about this. He likened the
thinking of the "man in the street" to a graph with a horizontal line on it.
Things stayed pretty much the same in the future as they were in 1800.

Scientists were a small step up. Apart from a few realists their thinking
was like a line on a graph with a modest slope on it. Like when you
make a graph on the side of your wardrobe as a kid showing how many
push-ups you can do each week.

SF writers were a bit more advanced. The slope on the line was a bit steeper.

Whereas history shows reality is an exponential, a curve that grows faster
than any polynomial.

But even pedestrian thinking shows in this case nothing special is
required except some G.U.T.Z.

Space travel isnt for woosies like humans. Assume aliens are not
woosies. Every point in the galaxy is no more than 100kly from Earth.
There are 10^11 stars. They've had 14 billion years. At 1% of C
is only takes 1 million years to get anywhere in the galaxy.
Think of a good reason 100k alien civilizations have not made it here already,
all of them putting into the shade anything humans have accomplished in
the last million years. Human thought over the past 10k years
or science over the last 100 is nothing of consquence. Probably one of the
reasons they dont say much.

You gotta imagine in the last 10 billion years a lot of them had cats.
(Or nearest equivalent).
Cats -- even if they can figure it out -- refuse to do the smart thing.
If there's a dumb way to do somethign a cat will try that first.
You can see a cat sit by the side of the road and seemingly want to cross.
Waiting waiting waiting. When a car comes along THEN they will want to
run across in front of it.
Jump from the garage to the house over a distance of 3m?
Sure. They will try it.
You can shout yourself horse telling them to be reasonable.
You cant make it, you might say.
The cat wont listen. They dont understand distances. They dont understand
gravity. They cant see 10 seconds into the future or imagine what its like
falling 10m and landing on concrete on your head.
Get out the shovel now. You're gunna have to bury something in a few mins.
(And sure, it tried to make the jump, fell the 10m and ended up hitting
the concrete on its back and broke in half).

In 10 billion years "they"'ve just given up on talking to anyone at less
than 10m years of continuous development. So-called smart species almost
never make the 2nd million let alone 10.

--
"Nothing in life is to be feared, it is only to be understood.
Now is the time to understand more, so that we may fear less."
- Marie Curie

Re: Superhabitable planets - Bigger, better, more suited for biology

<t02004$ur7$1@dont-email.me>

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https://www.novabbs.com/tech/article-flat.php?id=3933&group=alt.astronomy#3933

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Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!eternal-september.org!reader02.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: danie...@eternal-september.org (Daniel65)
Newsgroups: alt.astronomy,alt.books.arthur-clarke
Subject: Re: Superhabitable planets - Bigger, better, more suited for biology
Date: Sun, 6 Mar 2022 20:47:49 +1100
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 by: Daniel65 - Sun, 6 Mar 2022 09:47 UTC

Whisper wrote on 5/3/22 11:48 pm:
> On 5/03/2022 11:46 pm, Daniel65 wrote:
>> casagiannoni@optimum.net wrote on 5/3/22 5:45 am:
>>> OK, but don't forget :
>>>
>>> Distance = Speed x Time
>>>
>>> Interstellar distances are so very great, as to preclude any chance of
>>> travel, or practical communications.
>>>
>> Could someone please change the record?? This one is broken!!
>
>
> It's an important message though.  Some people actually think we'll
> reach interstellar planets one day lol - clueless.

And some people think we'll never get anywhere!!
--
Daniel

Re: Superhabitable planets - Bigger, better, more suited for biology

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From: danie...@eternal-september.org (Daniel65)
Newsgroups: alt.astronomy,alt.books.arthur-clarke
Subject: Re: Superhabitable planets - Bigger, better, more suited for biology
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 by: Daniel65 - Sun, 6 Mar 2022 09:50 UTC

R Kym Horsell wrote on 6/3/22 12:03 am:
> In alt.astronomy Daniel65 <daniel47@eternal-september.org> wrote:
>> casagiannoni@optimum.net wrote on 5/3/22 5:45 am:
>>> OK, but don't forget :
>>> Distance = Speed x Time
>>> Interstellar distances are so very great, as to preclude any chance of
>>> travel, or practical communications.
>> Could someone please change the record?? This one is broken!!
>
> The same refrain we've seen for 30y on the climate groups.
> ".003% of the atm cain chang nuttin!"
> "you cain walk aroun da worl you need to use an airplane".
> "you'll nebba replas da hors n buggy"
>
At least the "Horse'n'buggy" was Dual-purpose!

Got YOU where you needed to be .... and fertilised the place at the same
time!!
--
Daniel

Re: Superhabitable planets - Bigger, better, more suited for biology

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From: danie...@eternal-september.org (Daniel65)
Newsgroups: alt.astronomy,alt.books.arthur-clarke
Subject: Re: Superhabitable planets - Bigger, better, more suited for biology
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 by: Daniel65 - Sun, 6 Mar 2022 09:54 UTC

Whisper wrote on 6/3/22 12:16 am:
> On 6/03/2022 12:03 am, R Kym Horsell wrote:
>> In alt.astronomy Daniel65 <daniel47@eternal-september.org> wrote:
>>> casagiannoni@optimum.net wrote on 5/3/22 5:45 am:
>>>> OK, but don't forget :
>>>> Distance = Speed x Time
>>>> Interstellar distances are so very great, as to preclude any chance of
>>>> travel, or practical communications.
>>> Could someone please change the record?? This one is broken!!
>>
>> The same refrain we've seen for 30y on the climate groups.
>> ".003% of the atm cain chang nuttin!"
>> "you cain walk aroun da worl you need to use an airplane".
>> "you'll nebba replas da hors n buggy"
>>
>
>
> All completely different.  Humans can't survive long term off the earth.
>  We would be defeated by the effects of gravity/radiation and many
> other challenges etc.  Even if we could design transportation to get to
> an extra solar planet (100% impossible imo) we'd die before we got to
> 0.0001% of the journey.

AH!!! There's the important FACT ... 'imo'!!
>
> Journeys to extra solar planets and contacting aliens are *never* going
> to happen so let's frame the discussions here within realistic
> boundaries.  This isn't a sci-fi group.

Hmm!! What's alt.books.arthur-clarke about if not sci-fi books?? Just
his science books ONLY, maybe!!
--
Daniel

Re: Superhabitable planets - Bigger, better, more suited for biology

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Newsgroups: alt.astronomy,alt.books.arthur-clarke
Subject: Re: Superhabitable planets - Bigger, better, more suited for biology
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 by: Daniel65 - Sun, 6 Mar 2022 10:03 UTC

R Kym Horsell wrote on 6/3/22 10:03 am:
> In alt.astronomy Caselli Luigi <caselli@anyspamrefusediol.it> wrote:
>> Il 05/03/2022 14:16, Whisper ha scritto:
>>> All completely different. Humans can't survive long term off the
>>> earth. We would be defeated by the effects of gravity/radiation
>>> and many other challenges etc. Even if we could design
>>> transportation to get to an extra solar planet (100% impossible
>>> imo) we'd die before we got to 0.0001% of the journey. Journeys
>>> to extra solar planets and contacting aliens are *never* going to
>>> happen so let's frame the discussions here within realistic
>>> boundaries. This isn't a sci-fi group.
>> If you assume that the current physics is right you are right. The
>> only way to send something around the universe is using probes and
>> robots like the Voyagers. Men are to weak for long travels in the
>> space. The only other possibility is a complete revolution in
>> physics. Maybe someone unifying Gravity and Quantistic Mechanic and
>> finding some way to radically shorten distances. But for now this
>> is sci-fi... Luigi Caselli
>
> Even SF is too conservative compared with reality.
>
> Larry Niven had a good argument about this. He likened the thinking
> of the "man in the street" to a graph with a horizontal line on it.
> Things stayed pretty much the same in the future as they were in
> 1800.
>
> Scientists were a small step up. Apart from a few realists their
> thinking was like a line on a graph with a modest slope on it. Like
> when you make a graph on the side of your wardrobe as a kid showing
> how many push-ups you can do each week.
>
> SF writers were a bit more advanced. The slope on the line was a bit
> steeper.
>
> Whereas history shows reality is an exponential, a curve that grows
> faster than any polynomial.
>
> But even pedestrian thinking shows in this case nothing special is
> required except some G.U.T.Z.
>
> Space travel isnt for woosies like humans. Assume aliens are not
> woosies. Every point in the galaxy is no more than 100kly from
> Earth. There are 10^11 stars. They've had 14 billion years. At 1% of
> C is only takes 1 million years to get anywhere in the galaxy. Think
> of a good reason 100k alien civilizations have not made it here
> already, all of them putting into the shade anything humans have
> accomplished in the last million years. Human thought over the past
> 10k years or science over the last 100 is nothing of consquence.
> Probably one of the reasons they dont say much.
>
> You gotta imagine in the last 10 billion years a lot of them had
> cats. (Or nearest equivalent). Cats -- even if they can figure it out
> -- refuse to do the smart thing. If there's a dumb way to do
> somethign a cat will try that first. You can see a cat sit by the
> side of the road and seemingly want to cross. Waiting waiting
> waiting. When a car comes along THEN they will want to run across in
> front of it. Jump from the garage to the house over a distance of
> 3m? Sure. They will try it. You can shout yourself horse telling them
> to be reasonable. You cant make it, you might say. The cat wont
> listen. They dont understand distances.

Cats don't really understand English* (* Insert appropriate spoken
language!!)

> They dont understand gravity.
> They cant see 10 seconds into the future or imagine what its like
> falling 10m and landing on concrete on your head. Get out the shovel
> now. You're gunna have to bury something in a few mins. (And sure,
> it tried to make the jump, fell the 10m and ended up hitting the
> concrete on its back and broke in half).

But aren't Cats supposed to always land on their feet/paws??

> In 10 billion years "they"'ve just given up on talking to anyone at
> less than 10m years of continuous development. So-called smart
> species almost never make the 2nd million let alone 10.

Yeap! Could be!
--
Daniel

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