'We don't need engineers. We have designers.'

https://nypost.com/2021/08/02/australian-track-cyclists-handlebars-snap-off-at-olympics/

--
Andrew Muzi
<www.yellowjersey.org/>
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On Monday, August 2, 2021 at 10:49:07 AM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
> 'We don't need engineers. We have designers.'
>
> https://nypost.com/2021/08/02/australian-track-cyclists-handlebars-snap-off-at-olympics/

Interestingly, the Electron Pro was recalled https://healthycanadians.gc.ca/recall-alert-rappel-avis/hc-sc/2020/74311r-eng.php "Issue: A defect in the bike's steerer module may pose a fall hazard to users."

Hmmm. Should have sold them our old Huffys. https://i.pinimg.com/originals/13/d6/84/13d6848117c9d1dade0b108bbca8309d.jpg

-- Jay Beattie.

On 8/2/2021 1:18 PM, jbeattie wrote:
> On Monday, August 2, 2021 at 10:49:07 AM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
>> 'We don't need engineers. We have designers.'
>>
>> https://nypost.com/2021/08/02/australian-track-cyclists-handlebars-snap-off-at-olympics/
>
>
> Interestingly, the Electron Pro was recalled https://healthycanadians.gc.ca/recall-alert-rappel-avis/hc-sc/2020/74311r-eng.php "Issue: A defect in the bike's steerer module may pose a fall hazard to users."
>
> Hmmm. Should have sold them our old Huffys. https://i.pinimg.com/originals/13/d6/84/13d6848117c9d1dade0b108bbca8309d.jpg
>
> -- Jay Beattie.
>

BTDT:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UZg1vrvGbdE

Should have hired Mike Melton whose Team Huffys seemed reliable.

--
Andrew Muzi
<www.yellowjersey.org/>
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On Monday, August 2, 2021 at 1:30:24 PM UTC-5, AMuzi wrote:
> On 8/2/2021 1:18 PM, jbeattie wrote:
> > On Monday, August 2, 2021 at 10:49:07 AM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
> >> 'We don't need engineers. We have designers.'
> >>
> >> https://nypost.com/2021/08/02/australian-track-cyclists-handlebars-snap-off-at-olympics/
> >
> >
> > Interestingly, the Electron Pro was recalled https://healthycanadians.gc.ca/recall-alert-rappel-avis/hc-sc/2020/74311r-eng.php "Issue: A defect in the bike's steerer module may pose a fall hazard to users."
> >
> > Hmmm. Should have sold them our old Huffys. https://i.pinimg.com/originals/13/d6/84/13d6848117c9d1dade0b108bbca8309d.jpg
> >
> > -- Jay Beattie.
> >
> BTDT:
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UZg1vrvGbdE
>
> Should have hired Mike Melton whose Team Huffys seemed reliable.
> --
> Andrew Muzi
> <www.yellowjersey.org/>
> Open every day since 1 April, 1971
That is painful to watch. Ouch they seem to do better than I ever would.
Deacon Mark

On Monday, August 2, 2021 at 11:30:24 AM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
> On 8/2/2021 1:18 PM, jbeattie wrote:
> > On Monday, August 2, 2021 at 10:49:07 AM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
> >> 'We don't need engineers. We have designers.'
> >>
> >> https://nypost.com/2021/08/02/australian-track-cyclists-handlebars-snap-off-at-olympics/
> >
> >
> > Interestingly, the Electron Pro was recalled https://healthycanadians.gc.ca/recall-alert-rappel-avis/hc-sc/2020/74311r-eng.php "Issue: A defect in the bike's steerer module may pose a fall hazard to users."
> >
> > Hmmm. Should have sold them our old Huffys. https://i.pinimg.com/originals/13/d6/84/13d6848117c9d1dade0b108bbca8309d.jpg
> >
> > -- Jay Beattie.
> >
> BTDT:
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UZg1vrvGbdE
>
> Should have hired Mike Melton whose Team Huffys seemed reliable.
>

In 1980-2 or thereabouts, Jonathan Boyer was giving a slide show and regaling us (SJBC) with stories from his pro career -- and he had some slides from Paris-Roubaix, one of them of a rider holding half a handlebar. I think there were other broken bike shots. Bikes have been breaking at Paris-Roubaix even before CF. The bars on that Argon 18 pursuit bike are a whole other thing IMO and shouldn't have broken on a smooth track.

-- Jay Beattie.

On 8/2/2021 1:49 PM, AMuzi wrote:
> 'We don't need engineers. We have designers.'
>
> https://nypost.com/2021/08/02/australian-track-cyclists-handlebars-snap-off-at-olympics/
>
>
“Those handlebars are 3D laser handlebars that are made to measure for
each rider. They are quite flimsy, they do tend to crack..."

So they ride them anyway? Yikes.

--
- Frank Krygowski

Frank Krygowski <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> On 8/2/2021 1:49 PM, AMuzi wrote:
>> 'We don't need engineers. We have designers.'
>>
>> https://nypost.com/2021/08/02/australian-track-cyclists-handlebars-snap-off-at-olympics/
>>
>>
> “Those handlebars are 3D laser handlebars that are made to measure for
> each rider. They are quite flimsy, they do tend to crack..."
>
> So they ride them anyway? Yikes.
>

At the Olympics, unlike on your group rides, there are incentives to finish
a tenth of a second faster.

On 8/2/2021 6:13 PM, Ralph Barone wrote:
> Frank Krygowski <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>> On 8/2/2021 1:49 PM, AMuzi wrote:
>>> 'We don't need engineers. We have designers.'
>>>
>>> https://nypost.com/2021/08/02/australian-track-cyclists-handlebars-snap-off-at-olympics/
>>>
>>>
>> “Those handlebars are 3D laser handlebars that are made to measure for
>> each rider. They are quite flimsy, they do tend to crack..."
>>
>> So they ride them anyway? Yikes.
>>
>
> At the Olympics, unlike on your group rides, there are incentives to finish
> a tenth of a second faster.

I understand that. But you can't finish faster if you don't finish.

--
- Frank Krygowski

On 8/2/2021 5:29 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> On 8/2/2021 6:13 PM, Ralph Barone wrote:
>> Frank Krygowski <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>> On 8/2/2021 1:49 PM, AMuzi wrote:
>>>> 'We don't need engineers. We have designers.'
>>>>
>>>> https://nypost.com/2021/08/02/australian-track-cyclists-handlebars-snap-off-at-olympics/
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>> “Those handlebars are 3D laser handlebars that are made
>>> to measure for
>>> each rider. They are quite flimsy, they do tend to crack..."
>>>
>>> So they ride them anyway? Yikes.
>>>
>>
>> At the Olympics, unlike on your group rides, there are
>> incentives to finish
>> a tenth of a second faster.
>
> I understand that. But you can't finish faster if you don't
> finish.
>

Yes, that's right.

One is reminded of Colin Abarth Chapman:
'The properly designed racing car falls apart as it crosses
the finish line first.'

--
Andrew Muzi
<www.yellowjersey.org/>
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On Monday, August 2, 2021 at 3:39:29 PM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
> On 8/2/2021 5:29 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> > On 8/2/2021 6:13 PM, Ralph Barone wrote:
> >> Frank Krygowski <frkr...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> >>> On 8/2/2021 1:49 PM, AMuzi wrote:
> >>>> 'We don't need engineers. We have designers.'
> >>>>
> >>>> https://nypost.com/2021/08/02/australian-track-cyclists-handlebars-snap-off-at-olympics/
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>> “Those handlebars are 3D laser handlebars that are made
> >>> to measure for
> >>> each rider. They are quite flimsy, they do tend to crack..."
> >>>
> >>> So they ride them anyway? Yikes.
> >>>
> >>
> >> At the Olympics, unlike on your group rides, there are
> >> incentives to finish
> >> a tenth of a second faster.
> >
> > I understand that. But you can't finish faster if you don't
> > finish.
> >
> Yes, that's right.
>
> One is reminded of Colin Abarth Chapman:
> 'The properly designed racing car falls apart as it crosses
> the finish line first.'

The bike is still subject to the 6.8kg UCI weight minimum, with no derailleurs, brakes, etc. You don't have to skimp anywhere to hit the minimum weight, and team pursuit isn't like climbing Mont Ventoux. It's a flat TT bike, basically. Somebody just blew the layup or design or materials. A bad day for Argon 18.

-- Jay Beattie.

On 8/2/2021 10:49 AM, AMuzi wrote:
> 'We don't need engineers. We have designers.'
>
> https://nypost.com/2021/08/02/australian-track-cyclists-handlebars-snap-off-at-olympics/

Wow, someone came up with a way to manufacture handlerbars that are even
lighter and flimsier than carbon-fiber handlebars.

I was about to say that the next thing you know there will be
carbon-fiber spokes, but it's already happened
<https://bikerumor.com/2020/07/08/gulo-composites-launches-with-braided-carbon-spokes-on-nc-built-carbon-wheels/>.

Frank Krygowski <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> On 8/2/2021 6:13 PM, Ralph Barone wrote:
>> Frank Krygowski <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>> On 8/2/2021 1:49 PM, AMuzi wrote:
>>>> 'We don't need engineers. We have designers.'
>>>>
>>>> https://nypost.com/2021/08/02/australian-track-cyclists-handlebars-snap-off-at-olympics/
>>>>
>>>>
>>> “Those handlebars are 3D laser handlebars that are made to measure for
>>> each rider. They are quite flimsy, they do tend to crack..."
>>>
>>> So they ride them anyway? Yikes.
>>>
>>
>> At the Olympics, unlike on your group rides, there are incentives to finish
>> a tenth of a second faster.
>
> I understand that. But you can't finish faster if you don't finish.
>

And that’s the line you have to walk. Every gram saved makes you faster,
right up to the point where it makes you really slow.

On Tue, 3 Aug 2021 00:30:40 -0000 (UTC), Ralph Barone
<ralph@invalid.com> wrote:

>Frank Krygowski <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>> On 8/2/2021 6:13 PM, Ralph Barone wrote:
>>> Frank Krygowski <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>>> On 8/2/2021 1:49 PM, AMuzi wrote:
>>>>> 'We don't need engineers. We have designers.'
>>>>>
>>>>> https://nypost.com/2021/08/02/australian-track-cyclists-handlebars-snap-off-at-olympics/
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> “Those handlebars are 3D laser handlebars that are made to measure for
>>>> each rider. They are quite flimsy, they do tend to crack..."
>>>>
>>>> So they ride them anyway? Yikes.
>>>>
>>>
>>> At the Olympics, unlike on your group rides, there are incentives to finish
>>> a tenth of a second faster.
>>
>> I understand that. But you can't finish faster if you don't finish.
>>
>
>And that’s the line you have to walk. Every gram saved makes you faster,
>right up to the point where it makes you really slow.

Not in professional bicycle racing due to the mandatory weight - 6.8
kg (14.99 lb) - requirement, implemented in 2000
--
Cheers,

John B.

On Monday, August 2, 2021 at 3:58:37 PM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote:
> On Monday, August 2, 2021 at 3:39:29 PM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
> > On 8/2/2021 5:29 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> > > On 8/2/2021 6:13 PM, Ralph Barone wrote:
> > >> Frank Krygowski <frkr...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> > >>> On 8/2/2021 1:49 PM, AMuzi wrote:
> > >>>> 'We don't need engineers. We have designers.'
> > >>>>
> > >>>> https://nypost.com/2021/08/02/australian-track-cyclists-handlebars-snap-off-at-olympics/
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>> “Those handlebars are 3D laser handlebars that are made
> > >>> to measure for
> > >>> each rider. They are quite flimsy, they do tend to crack..."
> > >>>
> > >>> So they ride them anyway? Yikes.
> > >>>
> > >>
> > >> At the Olympics, unlike on your group rides, there are
> > >> incentives to finish
> > >> a tenth of a second faster.
> > >
> > > I understand that. But you can't finish faster if you don't
> > > finish.
> > >
> > Yes, that's right.
> >
> > One is reminded of Colin Abarth Chapman:
> > 'The properly designed racing car falls apart as it crosses
> > the finish line first.'
> The bike is still subject to the 6.8kg UCI weight minimum, with no derailleurs, brakes, etc. You don't have to skimp anywhere to hit the minimum weight, and team pursuit isn't like climbing Mont Ventoux. It's a flat TT bike, basically. Somebody just blew the layup or design or materials. A bad day for Argon 18.

I will assume that was a mistake on your part since the UCI weight limit is the finished bike without water bottles.

On Sunday, August 15, 2021 at 9:26:57 AM UTC-7, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Monday, August 2, 2021 at 3:58:37 PM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote:
> > On Monday, August 2, 2021 at 3:39:29 PM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
> > > On 8/2/2021 5:29 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> > > > On 8/2/2021 6:13 PM, Ralph Barone wrote:
> > > >> Frank Krygowski <frkr...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> > > >>> On 8/2/2021 1:49 PM, AMuzi wrote:
> > > >>>> 'We don't need engineers. We have designers.'
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>> https://nypost.com/2021/08/02/australian-track-cyclists-handlebars-snap-off-at-olympics/
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>>
> > > >>> “Those handlebars are 3D laser handlebars that are made
> > > >>> to measure for
> > > >>> each rider. They are quite flimsy, they do tend to crack..."
> > > >>>
> > > >>> So they ride them anyway? Yikes.
> > > >>>
> > > >>
> > > >> At the Olympics, unlike on your group rides, there are
> > > >> incentives to finish
> > > >> a tenth of a second faster.
> > > >
> > > > I understand that. But you can't finish faster if you don't
> > > > finish.
> > > >
> > > Yes, that's right.
> > >
> > > One is reminded of Colin Abarth Chapman:
> > > 'The properly designed racing car falls apart as it crosses
> > > the finish line first.'
> > The bike is still subject to the 6.8kg UCI weight minimum, with no derailleurs, brakes, etc. You don't have to skimp anywhere to hit the minimum weight, and team pursuit isn't like climbing Mont Ventoux. It's a flat TT bike, basically. Somebody just blew the layup or design or materials. A bad day for Argon 18.
> I will assume that was a mistake on your part since the UCI weight limit is the finished bike without water bottles.

Who is talking about water bottles? I'm talking about bike weights -- road versus track, and track bikes don't have brakes and derailleurs. The "etc" was not water bottles. It was shifters, wires, batteries and everything that goes with a derailleur system. You don't need scary-light bars on a track bike to hit the UCI minimum.

-- Jay Beattie.

On Sunday, August 15, 2021 at 11:28:18 AM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote:
> On Sunday, August 15, 2021 at 9:26:57 AM UTC-7, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
> > On Monday, August 2, 2021 at 3:58:37 PM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote:
> > > On Monday, August 2, 2021 at 3:39:29 PM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
> > > > On 8/2/2021 5:29 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> > > > > On 8/2/2021 6:13 PM, Ralph Barone wrote:
> > > > >> Frank Krygowski <frkr...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> > > > >>> On 8/2/2021 1:49 PM, AMuzi wrote:
> > > > >>>> 'We don't need engineers. We have designers.'
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>> https://nypost.com/2021/08/02/australian-track-cyclists-handlebars-snap-off-at-olympics/
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>> “Those handlebars are 3D laser handlebars that are made
> > > > >>> to measure for
> > > > >>> each rider. They are quite flimsy, they do tend to crack..."
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>> So they ride them anyway? Yikes.
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>
> > > > >> At the Olympics, unlike on your group rides, there are
> > > > >> incentives to finish
> > > > >> a tenth of a second faster.
> > > > >
> > > > > I understand that. But you can't finish faster if you don't
> > > > > finish.
> > > > >
> > > > Yes, that's right.
> > > >
> > > > One is reminded of Colin Abarth Chapman:
> > > > 'The properly designed racing car falls apart as it crosses
> > > > the finish line first.'
> > > The bike is still subject to the 6.8kg UCI weight minimum, with no derailleurs, brakes, etc. You don't have to skimp anywhere to hit the minimum weight, and team pursuit isn't like climbing Mont Ventoux. It's a flat TT bike, basically. Somebody just blew the layup or design or materials. A bad day for Argon 18.
> > I will assume that was a mistake on your part since the UCI weight limit is the finished bike without water bottles.
> Who is talking about water bottles? I'm talking about bike weights -- road versus track, and track bikes don't have brakes and derailleurs. The "etc" was not water bottles. It was shifters, wires, batteries and everything that goes with a derailleur system. You don't need scary-light bars on a track bike to hit the UCI minimum.
You've sort of lost me there. The track bikes I've seen are heavier than road bikes. It is common for track bikes to crash pretty hard. That big crash in the Vuelta this morning left some of those bikes that they had to SWEEP up. I think that in general the photographers have orders not to show those and so I only caught a couple of pictures of them and then there were flashbacks in which the same view had the riders back on bikes and the old remains not in the picture. One bike was broken in half on the top tube and the downtube was completely missing. Since they avoided an overhead helicopter close-up I can only imagine that there were a LOT of pieces scattered about.

On Thursday, August 19, 2021 at 12:07:12 AM UTC+2, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Sunday, August 15, 2021 at 11:28:18 AM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote:
> > On Sunday, August 15, 2021 at 9:26:57 AM UTC-7, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > On Monday, August 2, 2021 at 3:58:37 PM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote:
> > > > On Monday, August 2, 2021 at 3:39:29 PM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
> > > > > On 8/2/2021 5:29 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> > > > > > On 8/2/2021 6:13 PM, Ralph Barone wrote:
> > > > > >> Frank Krygowski <frkr...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> > > > > >>> On 8/2/2021 1:49 PM, AMuzi wrote:
> > > > > >>>> 'We don't need engineers. We have designers.'
> > > > > >>>>
> > > > > >>>> https://nypost.com/2021/08/02/australian-track-cyclists-handlebars-snap-off-at-olympics/
> > > > > >>>>
> > > > > >>>>
> > > > > >>>>
> > > > > >>> “Those handlebars are 3D laser handlebars that are made
> > > > > >>> to measure for
> > > > > >>> each rider. They are quite flimsy, they do tend to crack..."
> > > > > >>>
> > > > > >>> So they ride them anyway? Yikes.
> > > > > >>>
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> At the Olympics, unlike on your group rides, there are
> > > > > >> incentives to finish
> > > > > >> a tenth of a second faster.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I understand that. But you can't finish faster if you don't
> > > > > > finish.
> > > > > >
> > > > > Yes, that's right.
> > > > >
> > > > > One is reminded of Colin Abarth Chapman:
> > > > > 'The properly designed racing car falls apart as it crosses
> > > > > the finish line first.'
> > > > The bike is still subject to the 6.8kg UCI weight minimum, with no derailleurs, brakes, etc. You don't have to skimp anywhere to hit the minimum weight, and team pursuit isn't like climbing Mont Ventoux. It's a flat TT bike, basically. Somebody just blew the layup or design or materials. A bad day for Argon 18.
> > > I will assume that was a mistake on your part since the UCI weight limit is the finished bike without water bottles.
> > Who is talking about water bottles? I'm talking about bike weights -- road versus track, and track bikes don't have brakes and derailleurs. The "etc" was not water bottles. It was shifters, wires, batteries and everything that goes with a derailleur system. You don't need scary-light bars on a track bike to hit the UCI minimum.
> You've sort of lost me there. The track bikes I've seen are heavier than road bikes. It is common for track bikes to crash pretty hard. That big crash in the Vuelta this morning left some of those bikes that they had to SWEEP up. I think that in general the photographers have orders not to show those and so I only caught a couple of pictures of them and then there were flashbacks in which the same view had the riders back on bikes and the old remains not in the picture. One bike was broken in half on the top tube and the downtube was completely missing. Since they avoided an overhead helicopter close-up I can only imagine that there were a LOT of pieces scattered about.

Tom, if you can use the weight of shifters, cables, RD, FD, brakes, cassette, chain ring for the frame you can make an incredible strong CF track frameset and still get a 6.8 kg bike, easy.

Lou

On Thursday, August 19, 2021 at 3:29:33 AM UTC-7, lou.h...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Thursday, August 19, 2021 at 12:07:12 AM UTC+2, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
> > On Sunday, August 15, 2021 at 11:28:18 AM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote:
> > > On Sunday, August 15, 2021 at 9:26:57 AM UTC-7, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > > On Monday, August 2, 2021 at 3:58:37 PM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote:
> > > > > On Monday, August 2, 2021 at 3:39:29 PM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
> > > > > > On 8/2/2021 5:29 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> > > > > > > On 8/2/2021 6:13 PM, Ralph Barone wrote:
> > > > > > >> Frank Krygowski <frkr...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> > > > > > >>> On 8/2/2021 1:49 PM, AMuzi wrote:
> > > > > > >>>> 'We don't need engineers. We have designers.'
> > > > > > >>>>
> > > > > > >>>> https://nypost.com/2021/08/02/australian-track-cyclists-handlebars-snap-off-at-olympics/
> > > > > > >>>>
> > > > > > >>>>
> > > > > > >>>>
> > > > > > >>> “Those handlebars are 3D laser handlebars that are made
> > > > > > >>> to measure for
> > > > > > >>> each rider. They are quite flimsy, they do tend to crack..."
> > > > > > >>>
> > > > > > >>> So they ride them anyway? Yikes.
> > > > > > >>>
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >> At the Olympics, unlike on your group rides, there are
> > > > > > >> incentives to finish
> > > > > > >> a tenth of a second faster.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I understand that. But you can't finish faster if you don't
> > > > > > > finish.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > Yes, that's right.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > One is reminded of Colin Abarth Chapman:
> > > > > > 'The properly designed racing car falls apart as it crosses
> > > > > > the finish line first.'
> > > > > The bike is still subject to the 6.8kg UCI weight minimum, with no derailleurs, brakes, etc. You don't have to skimp anywhere to hit the minimum weight, and team pursuit isn't like climbing Mont Ventoux. It's a flat TT bike, basically. Somebody just blew the layup or design or materials. A bad day for Argon 18.
> > > > I will assume that was a mistake on your part since the UCI weight limit is the finished bike without water bottles.
> > > Who is talking about water bottles? I'm talking about bike weights -- road versus track, and track bikes don't have brakes and derailleurs. The "etc" was not water bottles. It was shifters, wires, batteries and everything that goes with a derailleur system. You don't need scary-light bars on a track bike to hit the UCI minimum.
> > You've sort of lost me there. The track bikes I've seen are heavier than road bikes. It is common for track bikes to crash pretty hard. That big crash in the Vuelta this morning left some of those bikes that they had to SWEEP up. I think that in general the photographers have orders not to show those and so I only caught a couple of pictures of them and then there were flashbacks in which the same view had the riders back on bikes and the old remains not in the picture. One bike was broken in half on the top tube and the downtube was completely missing. Since they avoided an overhead helicopter close-up I can only imagine that there were a LOT of pieces scattered about.
> Tom, if you can use the weight of shifters, cables, RD, FD, brakes, cassette, chain ring for the frame you can make an incredible strong CF track frameset and still get a 6.8 kg bike, easy.

I think that is what I was trying to say - track bikes have to be MUCH stronger than road bikes since the races are much shorter and so individuals can put a hell of a lot more power into the frameset. I have seen track racers bend steel frames permanently. You sure as hell couldn't do that on a road bike which an average ride 10 times or more as far making it necessary not to expend any more energy than necessary. Creeping up a 23% climb doesn't put anything like a track sprint into a frameset.

On Thursday, August 19, 2021 at 12:04:30 PM UTC-4, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Thursday, August 19, 2021 at 3:29:33 AM UTC-7, lou.h...@gmail.com wrote:
> > On Thursday, August 19, 2021 at 12:07:12 AM UTC+2, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > On Sunday, August 15, 2021 at 11:28:18 AM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote:
> > > > On Sunday, August 15, 2021 at 9:26:57 AM UTC-7, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > > > On Monday, August 2, 2021 at 3:58:37 PM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote:
> > > > > > On Monday, August 2, 2021 at 3:39:29 PM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
> > > > > > > On 8/2/2021 5:29 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> > > > > > > > On 8/2/2021 6:13 PM, Ralph Barone wrote:
> > > > > > > >> Frank Krygowski <frkr...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> > > > > > > >>> On 8/2/2021 1:49 PM, AMuzi wrote:
> > > > > > > >>>> 'We don't need engineers. We have designers.'
> > > > > > > >>>>
> > > > > > > >>>> https://nypost.com/2021/08/02/australian-track-cyclists-handlebars-snap-off-at-olympics/
> > > > > > > >>>>
> > > > > > > >>>>
> > > > > > > >>>>
> > > > > > > >>> “Those handlebars are 3D laser handlebars that are made
> > > > > > > >>> to measure for
> > > > > > > >>> each rider. They are quite flimsy, they do tend to crack...."
> > > > > > > >>>
> > > > > > > >>> So they ride them anyway? Yikes.
> > > > > > > >>>
> > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > >> At the Olympics, unlike on your group rides, there are
> > > > > > > >> incentives to finish
> > > > > > > >> a tenth of a second faster.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > I understand that. But you can't finish faster if you don't
> > > > > > > > finish.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Yes, that's right.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > One is reminded of Colin Abarth Chapman:
> > > > > > > 'The properly designed racing car falls apart as it crosses
> > > > > > > the finish line first.'
> > > > > > The bike is still subject to the 6.8kg UCI weight minimum, with no derailleurs, brakes, etc. You don't have to skimp anywhere to hit the minimum weight, and team pursuit isn't like climbing Mont Ventoux. It's a flat TT bike, basically. Somebody just blew the layup or design or materials. A bad day for Argon 18.
> > > > > I will assume that was a mistake on your part since the UCI weight limit is the finished bike without water bottles.
> > > > Who is talking about water bottles? I'm talking about bike weights -- road versus track, and track bikes don't have brakes and derailleurs. The "etc" was not water bottles. It was shifters, wires, batteries and everything that goes with a derailleur system. You don't need scary-light bars on a track bike to hit the UCI minimum.
> > > You've sort of lost me there. The track bikes I've seen are heavier than road bikes. It is common for track bikes to crash pretty hard. That big crash in the Vuelta this morning left some of those bikes that they had to SWEEP up. I think that in general the photographers have orders not to show those and so I only caught a couple of pictures of them and then there were flashbacks in which the same view had the riders back on bikes and the old remains not in the picture. One bike was broken in half on the top tube and the downtube was completely missing. Since they avoided an overhead helicopter close-up I can only imagine that there were a LOT of pieces scattered about.
> > Tom, if you can use the weight of shifters, cables, RD, FD, brakes, cassette, chain ring for the frame you can make an incredible strong CF track frameset and still get a 6.8 kg bike, easy.
> I think that is what I was trying to say - track bikes have to be MUCH stronger than road bikes since the races are much shorter and so individuals can put a hell of a lot more power into the frameset. I have seen track racers bend steel frames permanently. You sure as hell couldn't do that on a road bike which an average ride 10 times or more as far making it necessary not to expend any more energy than necessary. Creeping up a 23% climb doesn't put anything like a track sprint into a frameset.
Dumb question I guess, but

The competition athletes are pretty fit.
For the rest of us, would it be easier to take5 pounds off the belly than the bike?

Just saying.

On Wednesday, September 1, 2021 at 7:37:53 PM UTC-7, timoth...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Thursday, August 19, 2021 at 12:04:30 PM UTC-4, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
> > On Thursday, August 19, 2021 at 3:29:33 AM UTC-7, lou.h...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > On Thursday, August 19, 2021 at 12:07:12 AM UTC+2, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > > On Sunday, August 15, 2021 at 11:28:18 AM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote:
> > > > > On Sunday, August 15, 2021 at 9:26:57 AM UTC-7, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > > > > On Monday, August 2, 2021 at 3:58:37 PM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote:
> > > > > > > On Monday, August 2, 2021 at 3:39:29 PM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
> > > > > > > > On 8/2/2021 5:29 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> > > > > > > > > On 8/2/2021 6:13 PM, Ralph Barone wrote:
> > > > > > > > >> Frank Krygowski <frkr...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> > > > > > > > >>> On 8/2/2021 1:49 PM, AMuzi wrote:
> > > > > > > > >>>> 'We don't need engineers. We have designers.'
> > > > > > > > >>>>
> > > > > > > > >>>> https://nypost.com/2021/08/02/australian-track-cyclists-handlebars-snap-off-at-olympics/
> > > > > > > > >>>>
> > > > > > > > >>>>
> > > > > > > > >>>>
> > > > > > > > >>> “Those handlebars are 3D laser handlebars that are made
> > > > > > > > >>> to measure for
> > > > > > > > >>> each rider. They are quite flimsy, they do tend to crack..."
> > > > > > > > >>>
> > > > > > > > >>> So they ride them anyway? Yikes.
> > > > > > > > >>>
> > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > >> At the Olympics, unlike on your group rides, there are
> > > > > > > > >> incentives to finish
> > > > > > > > >> a tenth of a second faster.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > I understand that. But you can't finish faster if you don't
> > > > > > > > > finish.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Yes, that's right.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > One is reminded of Colin Abarth Chapman:
> > > > > > > > 'The properly designed racing car falls apart as it crosses
> > > > > > > > the finish line first.'
> > > > > > > The bike is still subject to the 6.8kg UCI weight minimum, with no derailleurs, brakes, etc. You don't have to skimp anywhere to hit the minimum weight, and team pursuit isn't like climbing Mont Ventoux. It's a flat TT bike, basically. Somebody just blew the layup or design or materials. A bad day for Argon 18.
> > > > > > I will assume that was a mistake on your part since the UCI weight limit is the finished bike without water bottles.
> > > > > Who is talking about water bottles? I'm talking about bike weights -- road versus track, and track bikes don't have brakes and derailleurs. The "etc" was not water bottles. It was shifters, wires, batteries and everything that goes with a derailleur system. You don't need scary-light bars on a track bike to hit the UCI minimum.
> > > > You've sort of lost me there. The track bikes I've seen are heavier than road bikes. It is common for track bikes to crash pretty hard. That big crash in the Vuelta this morning left some of those bikes that they had to SWEEP up. I think that in general the photographers have orders not to show those and so I only caught a couple of pictures of them and then there were flashbacks in which the same view had the riders back on bikes and the old remains not in the picture. One bike was broken in half on the top tube and the downtube was completely missing. Since they avoided an overhead helicopter close-up I can only imagine that there were a LOT of pieces scattered about.
> > > Tom, if you can use the weight of shifters, cables, RD, FD, brakes, cassette, chain ring for the frame you can make an incredible strong CF track frameset and still get a 6.8 kg bike, easy.
> > I think that is what I was trying to say - track bikes have to be MUCH stronger than road bikes since the races are much shorter and so individuals can put a hell of a lot more power into the frameset. I have seen track racers bend steel frames permanently. You sure as hell couldn't do that on a road bike which an average ride 10 times or more as far making it necessary not to expend any more energy than necessary. Creeping up a 23% climb doesn't put anything like a track sprint into a frameset.
> Dumb question I guess, but
>
> The competition athletes are pretty fit.
> For the rest of us, would it be easier to take5 pounds off the belly than the bike?
>
> Just saying.

Well, you're correct but that is easier said than done. I am burning off 2,000+ calories 4 times a week and my weight has been stable for a year. Two years ago I was burning off almost twice that and I did lose the "love handles" but nothing else.

On Thursday, August 19, 2021 at 5:29:33 AM UTC-5, lou.h...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Thursday, August 19, 2021 at 12:07:12 AM UTC+2, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
> > On Sunday, August 15, 2021 at 11:28:18 AM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote:
> > > On Sunday, August 15, 2021 at 9:26:57 AM UTC-7, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > > On Monday, August 2, 2021 at 3:58:37 PM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote:
> > > > > On Monday, August 2, 2021 at 3:39:29 PM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
> > > > > > On 8/2/2021 5:29 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> > > > > > > On 8/2/2021 6:13 PM, Ralph Barone wrote:
> > > > > > >> Frank Krygowski <frkr...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> > > > > > >>> On 8/2/2021 1:49 PM, AMuzi wrote:
> > > > > > >>>> 'We don't need engineers. We have designers.'
> > > > > > >>>>
> > > > > > >>>> https://nypost.com/2021/08/02/australian-track-cyclists-handlebars-snap-off-at-olympics/
> > > > > > >>>>
> > > > > > >>>>
> > > > > > >>>>
> > > > > > >>> “Those handlebars are 3D laser handlebars that are made
> > > > > > >>> to measure for
> > > > > > >>> each rider. They are quite flimsy, they do tend to crack..."
> > > > > > >>>
> > > > > > >>> So they ride them anyway? Yikes.
> > > > > > >>>
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >> At the Olympics, unlike on your group rides, there are
> > > > > > >> incentives to finish
> > > > > > >> a tenth of a second faster.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I understand that. But you can't finish faster if you don't
> > > > > > > finish.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > Yes, that's right.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > One is reminded of Colin Abarth Chapman:
> > > > > > 'The properly designed racing car falls apart as it crosses
> > > > > > the finish line first.'
> > > > > The bike is still subject to the 6.8kg UCI weight minimum, with no derailleurs, brakes, etc. You don't have to skimp anywhere to hit the minimum weight, and team pursuit isn't like climbing Mont Ventoux. It's a flat TT bike, basically. Somebody just blew the layup or design or materials. A bad day for Argon 18.
> > > > I will assume that was a mistake on your part since the UCI weight limit is the finished bike without water bottles.
> > > Who is talking about water bottles? I'm talking about bike weights -- road versus track, and track bikes don't have brakes and derailleurs. The "etc" was not water bottles. It was shifters, wires, batteries and everything that goes with a derailleur system. You don't need scary-light bars on a track bike to hit the UCI minimum.
> > You've sort of lost me there. The track bikes I've seen are heavier than road bikes. It is common for track bikes to crash pretty hard. That big crash in the Vuelta this morning left some of those bikes that they had to SWEEP up. I think that in general the photographers have orders not to show those and so I only caught a couple of pictures of them and then there were flashbacks in which the same view had the riders back on bikes and the old remains not in the picture. One bike was broken in half on the top tube and the downtube was completely missing. Since they avoided an overhead helicopter close-up I can only imagine that there were a LOT of pieces scattered about.
> Tom, if you can use the weight of shifters, cables, RD, FD, brakes, cassette, chain ring for the frame you can make an incredible strong CF track frameset and still get a 6.8 kg bike, easy.
>
> Lou

Does the UCI weight limit of 6.8 kg apply to professional track bikes too? UCI considers road and track bikes to be equivalent for some rules? Does cyclocross racing have the exact same rules as road and track UCI rules? I'm guessing mountain bike racing rules are different since mountain biking is so new compared to the UCI. UCI probably doesn't even cover mountain biking. Mountain biking had to get its own organization to make up its new rules.

On Saturday, September 4, 2021 at 6:44:21 AM UTC+2, russellseaton1@yahoo.com wrote:
> On Thursday, August 19, 2021 at 5:29:33 AM UTC-5, lou.h...@gmail.com wrote:

> > Tom, if you can use the weight of shifters, cables, RD, FD, brakes, cassette, chain ring for the frame you can make an incredible strong CF track frameset and still get a 6.8 kg bike, easy.
> >
> > Lou
> Does the UCI weight limit of 6.8 kg apply to professional track bikes too?

Yes.

Lou