I ask this on another forum but going to drop it here. I sure would like some feedback.

I have long thought of getting a power meter. I am serious rider but older at 60. I don't race but would be cool to have the data and I am a data junkie. My complaint with power meters and cranks is winter training inside on different bike and I have two road bikes. I am totally a road rider I avoid gravel and try to stay on smooth stuff even avoid roads just chipped that are rideable. That is why I want a pedal power meter system. The next gripe is I like Shimano SPD-SL cleats so in past avoided Favero Assioma and other systems. Well now of course they have both in Garmin xc200 and the FA pedals with Shimano cleat computability.

My question is which one to get and if anyone using them now? I don't mind the wider Q-factor I use pedal extenders so not a problem. I currently have Shimano 105 pedals they are 4 years old so not new but work fine. What would anyone recommend. I could simply get the or the Garmin xc200 or Favero A but that only have the spindle and swapped them out. Even though my 105's are not r7000 I still think they would work, My thought though maybe just buy new pedals I don't how many miles 105 go but mine have well over 25000 miles on them. The Garmin would be a whole new package and more money.

I sure hope to get some feedback.

On Thursday, August 26, 2021 at 12:57:27 PM UTC-7, deaconm...@gmail.com wrote:
> I ask this on another forum but going to drop it here. I sure would like some feedback.
>
> I have long thought of getting a power meter. I am serious rider but older at 60. I don't race but would be cool to have the data and I am a data junkie. My complaint with power meters and cranks is winter training inside on different bike and I have two road bikes. I am totally a road rider I avoid gravel and try to stay on smooth stuff even avoid roads just chipped that are rideable. That is why I want a pedal power meter system. The next gripe is I like Shimano SPD-SL cleats so in past avoided Favero Assioma and other systems. Well now of course they have both in Garmin xc200 and the FA pedals with Shimano cleat computability.
>
> My question is which one to get and if anyone using them now? I don't mind the wider Q-factor I use pedal extenders so not a problem. I currently have Shimano 105 pedals they are 4 years old so not new but work fine. What would anyone recommend. I could simply get the or the Garmin xc200 or Favero A but that only have the spindle and swapped them out. Even though my 105's are not r7000 I still think they would work, My thought though maybe just buy new pedals I don't how many miles 105 go but mine have well over 25000 miles on them. The Garmin would be a whole new package and more money.
>
> I sure hope to get some feedback.

Stages. Its the best. [Product placement.]. https://stagescycling.com/us/products/power/ They'll even put in a power unit on an existing crankarm. Made right here in the USofA -- offices in Portland, Or. and manufacturing in Boulder, Co. https://www.pinkbike.com/news/stages-cycling-tour-2016.html

-- Jay Beattie.

On Thursday, August 26, 2021 at 9:57:27 PM UTC+2, deaconm...@gmail.com wrote:
> I ask this on another forum but going to drop it here. I sure would like some feedback.
>
> I have long thought of getting a power meter. I am serious rider but older at 60. I don't race but would be cool to have the data and I am a data junkie. My complaint with power meters and cranks is winter training inside on different bike and I have two road bikes. I am totally a road rider I avoid gravel and try to stay on smooth stuff even avoid roads just chipped that are rideable. That is why I want a pedal power meter system. The next gripe is I like Shimano SPD-SL cleats so in past avoided Favero Assioma and other systems. Well now of course they have both in Garmin xc200 and the FA pedals with Shimano cleat computability.
>
> My question is which one to get and if anyone using them now? I don't mind the wider Q-factor I use pedal extenders so not a problem. I currently have Shimano 105 pedals they are 4 years old so not new but work fine. What would anyone recommend. I could simply get the or the Garmin xc200 or Favero A but that only have the spindle and swapped them out. Even though my 105's are not r7000 I still think they would work, My thought though maybe just buy new pedals I don't how many miles 105 go but mine have well over 25000 miles on them. The Garmin would be a whole new package and more money.
>
> I sure hope to get some feedback.

Mark, on one of my bikes I use the Garmin V3 pedals. Like most Garmin products it took a while before they got it right with the current Rally series. After I knew what the initial problem was with the battery compartment I figured out a workaround and I had no problems for 3 years now. Although I had no problems Garmin sent me updated hardware (battery compartment and little PCB) when I asked for it for free without asking any questions. Since I switched to Shimano SPD-SL pedals on my other bike with Shimano DA power cranks that came with the bike I switched the Look compatible pedal bodies of my Garmin V3 pedals with SPD-SL compatible bodies as soon as that came available with the current Rally series. The measuring hardware is in the spindle and that stayed the same. It took me half an hour to switch. The Garmin power pedals just look as normal pedals (unlike the clumsy looking Favero's) and you can switch them between bikes very easy without any tedious calibration/installation procedure like the SRM Exact pedals. I always take them with me on cycling holidays to put them on the rental bike. Just screw them in like any normal pedal and done. If you are a data junkie then the Garmin pedals will give with a Garmin head unit a ton of power metrics and no need for a cadence sensor, they figure that out from the power cycle.

For Jay I have a one sided Stages crank arm on my gravel bike. Works fine, terrible app, not as flexible between bikes as the Garmin pedals.

Lou

On Thursday, August 26, 2021 at 12:57:27 PM UTC-7, deaconm...@gmail.com wrote:
> I ask this on another forum but going to drop it here. I sure would like some feedback.
>
> I have long thought of getting a power meter. I am serious rider but older at 60. I don't race but would be cool to have the data and I am a data junkie. My complaint with power meters and cranks is winter training inside on different bike and I have two road bikes. I am totally a road rider I avoid gravel and try to stay on smooth stuff even avoid roads just chipped that are rideable. That is why I want a pedal power meter system. The next gripe is I like Shimano SPD-SL cleats so in past avoided Favero Assioma and other systems. Well now of course they have both in Garmin xc200 and the FA pedals with Shimano cleat computability.
>
> My question is which one to get and if anyone using them now? I don't mind the wider Q-factor I use pedal extenders so not a problem. I currently have Shimano 105 pedals they are 4 years old so not new but work fine. What would anyone recommend. I could simply get the or the Garmin xc200 or Favero A but that only have the spindle and swapped them out. Even though my 105's are not r7000 I still think they would work, My thought though maybe just buy new pedals I don't how many miles 105 go but mine have well over 25000 miles on them. The Garmin would be a whole new package and more money.
>
> I sure hope to get some feedback.
Lou is the one you should listen to concerning power meters. The one's that I've looked at give me the idea that double sided Garmin pedals are probably the best bet.

On Thursday, August 26, 2021 at 4:23:47 PM UTC-5, lou.h...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Thursday, August 26, 2021 at 9:57:27 PM UTC+2, deaconm...@gmail.com wrote:
> > I ask this on another forum but going to drop it here. I sure would like some feedback.
> >
> > I have long thought of getting a power meter. I am serious rider but older at 60. I don't race but would be cool to have the data and I am a data junkie. My complaint with power meters and cranks is winter training inside on different bike and I have two road bikes. I am totally a road rider I avoid gravel and try to stay on smooth stuff even avoid roads just chipped that are rideable. That is why I want a pedal power meter system. The next gripe is I like Shimano SPD-SL cleats so in past avoided Favero Assioma and other systems. Well now of course they have both in Garmin xc200 and the FA pedals with Shimano cleat computability.
> >
> > My question is which one to get and if anyone using them now? I don't mind the wider Q-factor I use pedal extenders so not a problem. I currently have Shimano 105 pedals they are 4 years old so not new but work fine. What would anyone recommend. I could simply get the or the Garmin xc200 or Favero A but that only have the spindle and swapped them out. Even though my 105's are not r7000 I still think they would work, My thought though maybe just buy new pedals I don't how many miles 105 go but mine have well over 25000 miles on them. The Garmin would be a whole new package and more money.
> >
> > I sure hope to get some feedback.
> Mark, on one of my bikes I use the Garmin V3 pedals. Like most Garmin products it took a while before they got it right with the current Rally series. After I knew what the initial problem was with the battery compartment I figured out a workaround and I had no problems for 3 years now. Although I had no problems Garmin sent me updated hardware (battery compartment and little PCB) when I asked for it for free without asking any questions. Since I switched to Shimano SPD-SL pedals on my other bike with Shimano DA power cranks that came with the bike I switched the Look compatible pedal bodies of my Garmin V3 pedals with SPD-SL compatible bodies as soon as that came available with the current Rally series. The measuring hardware is in the spindle and that stayed the same. It took me half an hour to switch. The Garmin power pedals just look as normal pedals (unlike the clumsy looking Favero's) and you can switch them between bikes very easy without any tedious calibration/installation procedure like the SRM Exact pedals. I always take them with me on cycling holidays to put them on the rental bike. Just screw them in like any normal pedal and done. If you are a data junkie then the Garmin pedals will give with a Garmin head unit a ton of power metrics and no need for a cadence sensor, they figure that out from the power cycle.
>
> For Jay I have a one sided Stages crank arm on my gravel bike. Works fine, terrible app, not as flexible between bikes as the Garmin pedals.
>
> Lou
Favero's do have the option to simply by the spindles and use Shimano r7 or r8000 pedals and that is cheaper but I probably need new pedals as my 105's are 5years old. Lou I appreciate the user information I too like Garmin products and they have been good to me.
Deacon Mark

On Thursday, August 26, 2021 at 2:23:47 PM UTC-7, lou.h...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Thursday, August 26, 2021 at 9:57:27 PM UTC+2, deaconm...@gmail.com wrote:
> > I ask this on another forum but going to drop it here. I sure would like some feedback.
> >
> > I have long thought of getting a power meter. I am serious rider but older at 60. I don't race but would be cool to have the data and I am a data junkie. My complaint with power meters and cranks is winter training inside on different bike and I have two road bikes. I am totally a road rider I avoid gravel and try to stay on smooth stuff even avoid roads just chipped that are rideable. That is why I want a pedal power meter system. The next gripe is I like Shimano SPD-SL cleats so in past avoided Favero Assioma and other systems. Well now of course they have both in Garmin xc200 and the FA pedals with Shimano cleat computability.
> >
> > My question is which one to get and if anyone using them now? I don't mind the wider Q-factor I use pedal extenders so not a problem. I currently have Shimano 105 pedals they are 4 years old so not new but work fine. What would anyone recommend. I could simply get the or the Garmin xc200 or Favero A but that only have the spindle and swapped them out. Even though my 105's are not r7000 I still think they would work, My thought though maybe just buy new pedals I don't how many miles 105 go but mine have well over 25000 miles on them. The Garmin would be a whole new package and more money.
> >
> > I sure hope to get some feedback.
> Mark, on one of my bikes I use the Garmin V3 pedals. Like most Garmin products it took a while before they got it right with the current Rally series. After I knew what the initial problem was with the battery compartment I figured out a workaround and I had no problems for 3 years now. Although I had no problems Garmin sent me updated hardware (battery compartment and little PCB) when I asked for it for free without asking any questions. Since I switched to Shimano SPD-SL pedals on my other bike with Shimano DA power cranks that came with the bike I switched the Look compatible pedal bodies of my Garmin V3 pedals with SPD-SL compatible bodies as soon as that came available with the current Rally series. The measuring hardware is in the spindle and that stayed the same. It took me half an hour to switch. The Garmin power pedals just look as normal pedals (unlike the clumsy looking Favero's) and you can switch them between bikes very easy without any tedious calibration/installation procedure like the SRM Exact pedals. I always take them with me on cycling holidays to put them on the rental bike. Just screw them in like any normal pedal and done. If you are a data junkie then the Garmin pedals will give with a Garmin head unit a ton of power metrics and no need for a cadence sensor, they figure that out from the power cycle.
>
> For Jay I have a one sided Stages crank arm on my gravel bike. Works fine, terrible app, not as flexible between bikes as the Garmin pedals.
>
> Lou

O.K., fine. Take bread out of the mouths of starving Oregonians. And I'll just tell Tadej Pogacar he made a mistake!

https://stagescycling.com/us/news/tadej-pogacar-and-uae-team-emirates-wins-2020-tour-de-france-with-stages-cycling/

It's the best.

-- Jay Beattie.

On Friday, August 27, 2021 at 12:54:45 AM UTC+2, jbeattie wrote:
> On Thursday, August 26, 2021 at 2:23:47 PM UTC-7, lou.h...@gmail.com wrote:
> > On Thursday, August 26, 2021 at 9:57:27 PM UTC+2, deaconm...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > I ask this on another forum but going to drop it here. I sure would like some feedback.
> > >
> > > I have long thought of getting a power meter. I am serious rider but older at 60. I don't race but would be cool to have the data and I am a data junkie. My complaint with power meters and cranks is winter training inside on different bike and I have two road bikes. I am totally a road rider I avoid gravel and try to stay on smooth stuff even avoid roads just chipped that are rideable. That is why I want a pedal power meter system. The next gripe is I like Shimano SPD-SL cleats so in past avoided Favero Assioma and other systems. Well now of course they have both in Garmin xc200 and the FA pedals with Shimano cleat computability.
> > >
> > > My question is which one to get and if anyone using them now? I don't mind the wider Q-factor I use pedal extenders so not a problem. I currently have Shimano 105 pedals they are 4 years old so not new but work fine. What would anyone recommend. I could simply get the or the Garmin xc200 or Favero A but that only have the spindle and swapped them out. Even though my 105's are not r7000 I still think they would work, My thought though maybe just buy new pedals I don't how many miles 105 go but mine have well over 25000 miles on them. The Garmin would be a whole new package and more money.
> > >
> > > I sure hope to get some feedback.
> > Mark, on one of my bikes I use the Garmin V3 pedals. Like most Garmin products it took a while before they got it right with the current Rally series. After I knew what the initial problem was with the battery compartment I figured out a workaround and I had no problems for 3 years now. Although I had no problems Garmin sent me updated hardware (battery compartment and little PCB) when I asked for it for free without asking any questions. Since I switched to Shimano SPD-SL pedals on my other bike with Shimano DA power cranks that came with the bike I switched the Look compatible pedal bodies of my Garmin V3 pedals with SPD-SL compatible bodies as soon as that came available with the current Rally series. The measuring hardware is in the spindle and that stayed the same. It took me half an hour to switch. The Garmin power pedals just look as normal pedals (unlike the clumsy looking Favero's) and you can switch them between bikes very easy without any tedious calibration/installation procedure like the SRM Exact pedals. I always take them with me on cycling holidays to put them on the rental bike. Just screw them in like any normal pedal and done. If you are a data junkie then the Garmin pedals will give with a Garmin head unit a ton of power metrics and no need for a cadence sensor, they figure that out from the power cycle.
> >
> > For Jay I have a one sided Stages crank arm on my gravel bike. Works fine, terrible app, not as flexible between bikes as the Garmin pedals.
> >
> > Lou
> O.K., fine. Take bread out of the mouths of starving Oregonians. And I'll just tell Tadej Pogacar he made a mistake!
>
> https://stagescycling.com/us/news/tadej-pogacar-and-uae-team-emirates-wins-2020-tour-de-france-with-stages-cycling/
>
> It's the best.

The made more poor choices ;-) The winner is always right though.

Lou

On 8/26/2021 6:54 PM, jbeattie wrote:
> On Thursday, August 26, 2021 at 2:23:47 PM UTC-7, lou.h...@gmail.com wrote:
>> On Thursday, August 26, 2021 at 9:57:27 PM UTC+2, deaconm...@gmail.com wrote:
>>> I ask this on another forum but going to drop it here. I sure would like some feedback.
>>>
>>> I have long thought of getting a power meter. I am serious rider but older at 60. I don't race but would be cool to have the data and I am a data junkie. My complaint with power meters and cranks is winter training inside on different bike and I have two road bikes. I am totally a road rider I avoid gravel and try to stay on smooth stuff even avoid roads just chipped that are rideable. That is why I want a pedal power meter system. The next gripe is I like Shimano SPD-SL cleats so in past avoided Favero Assioma and other systems. Well now of course they have both in Garmin xc200 and the FA pedals with Shimano cleat computability.
>>>
>>> My question is which one to get and if anyone using them now? I don't mind the wider Q-factor I use pedal extenders so not a problem. I currently have Shimano 105 pedals they are 4 years old so not new but work fine. What would anyone recommend. I could simply get the or the Garmin xc200 or Favero A but that only have the spindle and swapped them out. Even though my 105's are not r7000 I still think they would work, My thought though maybe just buy new pedals I don't how many miles 105 go but mine have well over 25000 miles on them. The Garmin would be a whole new package and more money.
>>>
>>> I sure hope to get some feedback.
>> Mark, on one of my bikes I use the Garmin V3 pedals. Like most Garmin products it took a while before they got it right with the current Rally series. After I knew what the initial problem was with the battery compartment I figured out a workaround and I had no problems for 3 years now. Although I had no problems Garmin sent me updated hardware (battery compartment and little PCB) when I asked for it for free without asking any questions. Since I switched to Shimano SPD-SL pedals on my other bike with Shimano DA power cranks that came with the bike I switched the Look compatible pedal bodies of my Garmin V3 pedals with SPD-SL compatible bodies as soon as that came available with the current Rally series. The measuring hardware is in the spindle and that stayed the same. It took me half an hour to switch. The Garmin power pedals just look as normal pedals (unlike the clumsy looking Favero's) and you can switch them between bikes very easy without any tedious calibration/installation procedure like the SRM Exact pedals. I always take them with me on cycling holidays to put them on the rental bike. Just screw them in like any normal pedal and done. If you are a data junkie then the Garmin pedals will give with a Garmin head unit a ton of power metrics and no need for a cadence sensor, they figure that out from the power cycle.
>>
>> For Jay I have a one sided Stages crank arm on my gravel bike. Works fine, terrible app, not as flexible between bikes as the Garmin pedals.
>>
>> Lou
>
> O.K., fine. Take bread out of the mouths of starving Oregonians. And I'll just tell Tadej Pogacar he made a mistake!
>
> https://stagescycling.com/us/news/tadej-pogacar-and-uae-team-emirates-wins-2020-tour-de-france-with-stages-cycling/
>
> It's the best.
Tsk! Guerilla marketing! Where did you learn such a thing?

--
- Frank Krygowski

On Friday, August 27, 2021 at 8:24:36 AM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> On 8/26/2021 6:54 PM, jbeattie wrote:
> > On Thursday, August 26, 2021 at 2:23:47 PM UTC-7, lou.h...@gmail.com wrote:
> >> On Thursday, August 26, 2021 at 9:57:27 PM UTC+2, deaconm...@gmail.com wrote:
> >>> I ask this on another forum but going to drop it here. I sure would like some feedback.
> >>>
> >>> I have long thought of getting a power meter. I am serious rider but older at 60. I don't race but would be cool to have the data and I am a data junkie. My complaint with power meters and cranks is winter training inside on different bike and I have two road bikes. I am totally a road rider I avoid gravel and try to stay on smooth stuff even avoid roads just chipped that are rideable. That is why I want a pedal power meter system. The next gripe is I like Shimano SPD-SL cleats so in past avoided Favero Assioma and other systems. Well now of course they have both in Garmin xc200 and the FA pedals with Shimano cleat computability.
> >>>
> >>> My question is which one to get and if anyone using them now? I don't mind the wider Q-factor I use pedal extenders so not a problem. I currently have Shimano 105 pedals they are 4 years old so not new but work fine. What would anyone recommend. I could simply get the or the Garmin xc200 or Favero A but that only have the spindle and swapped them out. Even though my 105's are not r7000 I still think they would work, My thought though maybe just buy new pedals I don't how many miles 105 go but mine have well over 25000 miles on them. The Garmin would be a whole new package and more money.
> >>>
> >>> I sure hope to get some feedback.
> >> Mark, on one of my bikes I use the Garmin V3 pedals. Like most Garmin products it took a while before they got it right with the current Rally series. After I knew what the initial problem was with the battery compartment I figured out a workaround and I had no problems for 3 years now. Although I had no problems Garmin sent me updated hardware (battery compartment and little PCB) when I asked for it for free without asking any questions. Since I switched to Shimano SPD-SL pedals on my other bike with Shimano DA power cranks that came with the bike I switched the Look compatible pedal bodies of my Garmin V3 pedals with SPD-SL compatible bodies as soon as that came available with the current Rally series. The measuring hardware is in the spindle and that stayed the same. It took me half an hour to switch. The Garmin power pedals just look as normal pedals (unlike the clumsy looking Favero's) and you can switch them between bikes very easy without any tedious calibration/installation procedure like the SRM Exact pedals. I always take them with me on cycling holidays to put them on the rental bike. Just screw them in like any normal pedal and done. If you are a data junkie then the Garmin pedals will give with a Garmin head unit a ton of power metrics and no need for a cadence sensor, they figure that out from the power cycle.
> >>
> >> For Jay I have a one sided Stages crank arm on my gravel bike. Works fine, terrible app, not as flexible between bikes as the Garmin pedals.
> >>
> >> Lou
> >
> > O.K., fine. Take bread out of the mouths of starving Oregonians. And I'll just tell Tadej Pogacar he made a mistake!
> >
> > https://stagescycling.com/us/news/tadej-pogacar-and-uae-team-emirates-wins-2020-tour-de-france-with-stages-cycling/
> >
> > It's the best.
> Tsk! Guerilla marketing! Where did you learn such a thing?

It's pretty overt -- more like gorilla marketing. I was offered a Stages meter (my son had a spare) and passed because I don't need to know how bad I suck, but I do have an allegiance to the company because they're local and they hired my son when he was in a wheel chair with two broken ankles/leg -- and they do make a good, reasonably priced product. A product of champions! A true Scotsman would buy one.

-- Jay Beattie.

On Friday, August 27, 2021 at 9:00:19 AM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote:
> On Friday, August 27, 2021 at 8:24:36 AM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> > On 8/26/2021 6:54 PM, jbeattie wrote:
> > > On Thursday, August 26, 2021 at 2:23:47 PM UTC-7, lou.h...@gmail.com wrote:
> > >> On Thursday, August 26, 2021 at 9:57:27 PM UTC+2, deaconm...@gmail.com wrote:
> > >>> I ask this on another forum but going to drop it here. I sure would like some feedback.
> > >>>
> > >>> I have long thought of getting a power meter. I am serious rider but older at 60. I don't race but would be cool to have the data and I am a data junkie. My complaint with power meters and cranks is winter training inside on different bike and I have two road bikes. I am totally a road rider I avoid gravel and try to stay on smooth stuff even avoid roads just chipped that are rideable. That is why I want a pedal power meter system. The next gripe is I like Shimano SPD-SL cleats so in past avoided Favero Assioma and other systems. Well now of course they have both in Garmin xc200 and the FA pedals with Shimano cleat computability.
> > >>>
> > >>> My question is which one to get and if anyone using them now? I don't mind the wider Q-factor I use pedal extenders so not a problem. I currently have Shimano 105 pedals they are 4 years old so not new but work fine. What would anyone recommend. I could simply get the or the Garmin xc200 or Favero A but that only have the spindle and swapped them out. Even though my 105's are not r7000 I still think they would work, My thought though maybe just buy new pedals I don't how many miles 105 go but mine have well over 25000 miles on them. The Garmin would be a whole new package and more money.
> > >>>
> > >>> I sure hope to get some feedback.
> > >> Mark, on one of my bikes I use the Garmin V3 pedals. Like most Garmin products it took a while before they got it right with the current Rally series. After I knew what the initial problem was with the battery compartment I figured out a workaround and I had no problems for 3 years now. Although I had no problems Garmin sent me updated hardware (battery compartment and little PCB) when I asked for it for free without asking any questions. Since I switched to Shimano SPD-SL pedals on my other bike with Shimano DA power cranks that came with the bike I switched the Look compatible pedal bodies of my Garmin V3 pedals with SPD-SL compatible bodies as soon as that came available with the current Rally series. The measuring hardware is in the spindle and that stayed the same. It took me half an hour to switch. The Garmin power pedals just look as normal pedals (unlike the clumsy looking Favero's) and you can switch them between bikes very easy without any tedious calibration/installation procedure like the SRM Exact pedals. I always take them with me on cycling holidays to put them on the rental bike. Just screw them in like any normal pedal and done. If you are a data junkie then the Garmin pedals will give with a Garmin head unit a ton of power metrics and no need for a cadence sensor, they figure that out from the power cycle.
> > >>
> > >> For Jay I have a one sided Stages crank arm on my gravel bike. Works fine, terrible app, not as flexible between bikes as the Garmin pedals.
> > >>
> > >> Lou
> > >
> > > O.K., fine. Take bread out of the mouths of starving Oregonians. And I'll just tell Tadej Pogacar he made a mistake!
> > >
> > > https://stagescycling.com/us/news/tadej-pogacar-and-uae-team-emirates-wins-2020-tour-de-france-with-stages-cycling/
> > >
> > > It's the best.
> > Tsk! Guerilla marketing! Where did you learn such a thing?
> It's pretty overt -- more like gorilla marketing. I was offered a Stages meter (my son had a spare) and passed because I don't need to know how bad I suck, but I do have an allegiance to the company because they're local and they hired my son when he was in a wheel chair with two broken ankles/leg -- and they do make a good, reasonably priced product. A product of champions! A true Scotsman would buy one.

I'm not sure you can get very much information from power meters. Watching others the power varies from zero to 8 or 900 watts on hard acceleration. Average power means very little to me because that isn't what you use climbing. The second you start to coast for any reason, be it to stop overrunning someone or coasting down a descent it drops instantly to zero. What do you learn about power expended on a ride? Seems to me that just tells you how you feel that day.

On Friday, August 27, 2021 at 6:06:57 PM UTC+2, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Friday, August 27, 2021 at 9:00:19 AM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote:
> > On Friday, August 27, 2021 at 8:24:36 AM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> > > On 8/26/2021 6:54 PM, jbeattie wrote:
> > > > On Thursday, August 26, 2021 at 2:23:47 PM UTC-7, lou.h...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > >> On Thursday, August 26, 2021 at 9:57:27 PM UTC+2, deaconm...@gmail..com wrote:
> > > >>> I ask this on another forum but going to drop it here. I sure would like some feedback.
> > > >>>
> > > >>> I have long thought of getting a power meter. I am serious rider but older at 60. I don't race but would be cool to have the data and I am a data junkie. My complaint with power meters and cranks is winter training inside on different bike and I have two road bikes. I am totally a road rider I avoid gravel and try to stay on smooth stuff even avoid roads just chipped that are rideable. That is why I want a pedal power meter system. The next gripe is I like Shimano SPD-SL cleats so in past avoided Favero Assioma and other systems. Well now of course they have both in Garmin xc200 and the FA pedals with Shimano cleat computability.
> > > >>>
> > > >>> My question is which one to get and if anyone using them now? I don't mind the wider Q-factor I use pedal extenders so not a problem. I currently have Shimano 105 pedals they are 4 years old so not new but work fine.. What would anyone recommend. I could simply get the or the Garmin xc200 or Favero A but that only have the spindle and swapped them out. Even though my 105's are not r7000 I still think they would work, My thought though maybe just buy new pedals I don't how many miles 105 go but mine have well over 25000 miles on them. The Garmin would be a whole new package and more money.
> > > >>>
> > > >>> I sure hope to get some feedback.
> > > >> Mark, on one of my bikes I use the Garmin V3 pedals. Like most Garmin products it took a while before they got it right with the current Rally series. After I knew what the initial problem was with the battery compartment I figured out a workaround and I had no problems for 3 years now. Although I had no problems Garmin sent me updated hardware (battery compartment and little PCB) when I asked for it for free without asking any questions.. Since I switched to Shimano SPD-SL pedals on my other bike with Shimano DA power cranks that came with the bike I switched the Look compatible pedal bodies of my Garmin V3 pedals with SPD-SL compatible bodies as soon as that came available with the current Rally series. The measuring hardware is in the spindle and that stayed the same. It took me half an hour to switch. The Garmin power pedals just look as normal pedals (unlike the clumsy looking Favero's) and you can switch them between bikes very easy without any tedious calibration/installation procedure like the SRM Exact pedals. I always take them with me on cycling holidays to put them on the rental bike. Just screw them in like any normal pedal and done. If you are a data junkie then the Garmin pedals will give with a Garmin head unit a ton of power metrics and no need for a cadence sensor, they figure that out from the power cycle.
> > > >>
> > > >> For Jay I have a one sided Stages crank arm on my gravel bike. Works fine, terrible app, not as flexible between bikes as the Garmin pedals.
> > > >>
> > > >> Lou
> > > >
> > > > O.K., fine. Take bread out of the mouths of starving Oregonians. And I'll just tell Tadej Pogacar he made a mistake!
> > > >
> > > > https://stagescycling.com/us/news/tadej-pogacar-and-uae-team-emirates-wins-2020-tour-de-france-with-stages-cycling/
> > > >
> > > > It's the best.
> > > Tsk! Guerilla marketing! Where did you learn such a thing?
> > It's pretty overt -- more like gorilla marketing. I was offered a Stages meter (my son had a spare) and passed because I don't need to know how bad I suck, but I do have an allegiance to the company because they're local and they hired my son when he was in a wheel chair with two broken ankles/leg -- and they do make a good, reasonably priced product. A product of champions! A true Scotsman would buy one.
> I'm not sure you can get very much information from power meters. Watching others the power varies from zero to 8 or 900 watts on hard acceleration. Average power means very little to me because that isn't what you use climbing. The second you start to coast for any reason, be it to stop overrunning someone or coasting down a descent it drops instantly to zero. What do you learn about power expended on a ride? Seems to me that just tells you how you feel that day.

Tom more than once you give us average speed to tell us how well you did that ride. That is a really dumb 'ruler' to measure that.

Lou

On 8/27/2021 12:36 PM, Lou Holtman wrote:
> On Friday, August 27, 2021 at 6:06:57 PM UTC+2, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
>> On Friday, August 27, 2021 at 9:00:19 AM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote:
>>> On Friday, August 27, 2021 at 8:24:36 AM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>>>> On 8/26/2021 6:54 PM, jbeattie wrote:
>>>>> On Thursday, August 26, 2021 at 2:23:47 PM UTC-7, lou.h...@gmail.com wrote:
>>>>>> On Thursday, August 26, 2021 at 9:57:27 PM UTC+2, deaconm...@gmail.com wrote:
>>>>>>> I ask this on another forum but going to drop it here. I sure would like some feedback.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I have long thought of getting a power meter. I am serious rider but older at 60. I don't race but would be cool to have the data and I am a data junkie. My complaint with power meters and cranks is winter training inside on different bike and I have two road bikes. I am totally a road rider I avoid gravel and try to stay on smooth stuff even avoid roads just chipped that are rideable. That is why I want a pedal power meter system. The next gripe is I like Shimano SPD-SL cleats so in past avoided Favero Assioma and other systems. Well now of course they have both in Garmin xc200 and the FA pedals with Shimano cleat computability.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> My question is which one to get and if anyone using them now? I don't mind the wider Q-factor I use pedal extenders so not a problem. I currently have Shimano 105 pedals they are 4 years old so not new but work fine. What would anyone recommend. I could simply get the or the Garmin xc200 or Favero A but that only have the spindle and swapped them out. Even though my 105's are not r7000 I still think they would work, My thought though maybe just buy new pedals I don't how many miles 105 go but mine have well over 25000 miles on them. The Garmin would be a whole new package and more money.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I sure hope to get some feedback.
>>>>>> Mark, on one of my bikes I use the Garmin V3 pedals. Like most Garmin products it took a while before they got it right with the current Rally series. After I knew what the initial problem was with the battery compartment I figured out a workaround and I had no problems for 3 years now. Although I had no problems Garmin sent me updated hardware (battery compartment and little PCB) when I asked for it for free without asking any questions. Since I switched to Shimano SPD-SL pedals on my other bike with Shimano DA power cranks that came with the bike I switched the Look compatible pedal bodies of my Garmin V3 pedals with SPD-SL compatible bodies as soon as that came available with the current Rally series. The measuring hardware is in the spindle and that stayed the same. It took me half an hour to switch. The Garmin power pedals just look as normal pedals (unlike the clumsy looking Favero's) and you can switch them between bikes very easy without any tedious calibration/installation procedure like the SRM Exact pedals. I always take them with me on cycling holidays to put them on the rental bike. Just screw them in like any normal pedal and done. If you are a data junkie then the Garmin pedals will give with a Garmin head unit a ton of power metrics and no need for a cadence sensor, they figure that out from the power cycle.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> For Jay I have a one sided Stages crank arm on my gravel bike. Works fine, terrible app, not as flexible between bikes as the Garmin pedals.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Lou
>>>>>
>>>>> O.K., fine. Take bread out of the mouths of starving Oregonians. And I'll just tell Tadej Pogacar he made a mistake!
>>>>>
>>>>> https://stagescycling.com/us/news/tadej-pogacar-and-uae-team-emirates-wins-2020-tour-de-france-with-stages-cycling/
>>>>>
>>>>> It's the best.
>>>> Tsk! Guerilla marketing! Where did you learn such a thing?
>>> It's pretty overt -- more like gorilla marketing. I was offered a Stages meter (my son had a spare) and passed because I don't need to know how bad I suck, but I do have an allegiance to the company because they're local and they hired my son when he was in a wheel chair with two broken ankles/leg -- and they do make a good, reasonably priced product. A product of champions! A true Scotsman would buy one.
>> I'm not sure you can get very much information from power meters. Watching others the power varies from zero to 8 or 900 watts on hard acceleration. Average power means very little to me because that isn't what you use climbing. The second you start to coast for any reason, be it to stop overrunning someone or coasting down a descent it drops instantly to zero. What do you learn about power expended on a ride? Seems to me that just tells you how you feel that day.
>
> Tom more than once you give us average speed to tell us how well you did that ride. That is a really dumb 'ruler' to measure that.
AFAIK our cycling magazines seldom have such data. I'm a bit jealous.

--
- Frank Krygowski

On 8/27/2021 1:04 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> On 8/27/2021 12:36 PM, Lou Holtman wrote:
>> On Friday, August 27, 2021 at 6:06:57 PM UTC+2, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
>>> On Friday, August 27, 2021 at 9:00:19 AM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote:
>>>> On Friday, August 27, 2021 at 8:24:36 AM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>>>>> On 8/26/2021 6:54 PM, jbeattie wrote:
>>>>>> On Thursday, August 26, 2021 at 2:23:47 PM UTC-7,
>>>>>> lou.h...@gmail.com wrote:
>>>>>>> On Thursday, August 26, 2021 at 9:57:27 PM UTC+2,
>>>>>>> deaconm...@gmail.com wrote:
>>>>>>>> I ask this on another forum but going to drop it here. I sure
>>>>>>>> would like some feedback.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I have long thought of getting a power meter. I am serious rider
>>>>>>>> but older at 60. I don't race but would be cool to have the data
>>>>>>>> and I am a data junkie. My complaint with power meters and
>>>>>>>> cranks is winter training inside on different bike and I have
>>>>>>>> two road bikes. I am totally a road rider I avoid gravel and try
>>>>>>>> to stay on smooth stuff even avoid roads just chipped that are
>>>>>>>> rideable. That is why I want a pedal power meter system. The
>>>>>>>> next gripe is I like Shimano SPD-SL cleats so in past avoided
>>>>>>>> Favero Assioma and other systems. Well now of course they have
>>>>>>>> both in Garmin xc200 and the FA pedals with Shimano cleat
>>>>>>>> computability.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> My question is which one to get and if anyone using them now? I
>>>>>>>> don't mind the wider Q-factor I use pedal extenders so not a
>>>>>>>> problem. I currently have Shimano 105 pedals they are 4 years
>>>>>>>> old so not new but work fine. What would anyone recommend. I
>>>>>>>> could simply get the or the Garmin xc200 or Favero A but that
>>>>>>>> only have the spindle and swapped them out. Even though my 105's
>>>>>>>> are not r7000 I still think they would work, My thought though
>>>>>>>> maybe just buy new pedals I don't how many miles 105 go but mine
>>>>>>>> have well over 25000 miles on them. The Garmin would be a whole
>>>>>>>> new package and more money.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I sure hope to get some feedback.
>>>>>>> Mark, on one of my bikes I use the Garmin V3 pedals. Like most
>>>>>>> Garmin products it took a while before they got it right with the
>>>>>>> current Rally series. After I knew what the initial problem was
>>>>>>> with the battery compartment I figured out a workaround and I had
>>>>>>> no problems for 3 years now. Although I had no problems Garmin
>>>>>>> sent me updated hardware (battery compartment and little PCB)
>>>>>>> when I asked for it for free without asking any questions. Since
>>>>>>> I switched to Shimano SPD-SL pedals on my other bike with Shimano
>>>>>>> DA power cranks that came with the bike I switched the Look
>>>>>>> compatible pedal bodies of my Garmin V3 pedals with SPD-SL
>>>>>>> compatible bodies as soon as that came available with the current
>>>>>>> Rally series. The measuring hardware is in the spindle and that
>>>>>>> stayed the same. It took me half an hour to switch. The Garmin
>>>>>>> power pedals just look as normal pedals (unlike the clumsy
>>>>>>> looking Favero's) and you can switch them between bikes very easy
>>>>>>> without any tedious calibration/installation procedure like the
>>>>>>> SRM Exact pedals. I always take them with me on cycling holidays
>>>>>>> to put them on the rental bike. Just screw them in like any
>>>>>>> normal pedal and done. If you are a data junkie then the Garmin
>>>>>>> pedals will give with a Garmin head unit a ton of power metrics
>>>>>>> and no need for a cadence sensor, they figure that out from the
>>>>>>> power cycle.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> For Jay I have a one sided Stages crank arm on my gravel bike.
>>>>>>> Works fine, terrible app, not as flexible between bikes as the
>>>>>>> Garmin pedals.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Lou
>>>>>>
>>>>>> O.K., fine. Take bread out of the mouths of starving Oregonians.
>>>>>> And I'll just tell Tadej Pogacar he made a mistake!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> https://stagescycling.com/us/news/tadej-pogacar-and-uae-team-emirates-wins-2020-tour-de-france-with-stages-cycling/
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It's the best.
>>>>> Tsk! Guerilla marketing! Where did you learn such a thing?
>>>> It's pretty overt -- more like gorilla marketing. I was offered a
>>>> Stages meter (my son had a spare) and passed because I don't need to
>>>> know how bad I suck, but I do have an allegiance to the company
>>>> because they're local and they hired my son when he was in a wheel
>>>> chair with two broken ankles/leg -- and they do make a good,
>>>> reasonably priced product. A product of champions! A true Scotsman
>>>> would buy one.
>>> I'm not sure you can get very much information from power meters.
>>> Watching others the power varies from zero to 8 or 900 watts on hard
>>> acceleration. Average power means very little to me because that
>>> isn't what you use climbing. The second you start to coast for any
>>> reason, be it to stop overrunning someone or coasting down a descent
>>> it drops instantly to zero. What do you learn about power expended on
>>> a ride? Seems to me that just tells you how you feel that day.
>>
>> Tom more than once you give us average speed to tell us how well you
>> did that ride. That is a really dumb 'ruler' to measure that.
>
> AFAIK our cycling magazines seldom have such data. I'm a bit jealous.

Oops. Wrong thread.

--
- Frank Krygowski

On Friday, August 27, 2021 at 9:36:32 AM UTC-7, lou.h...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Friday, August 27, 2021 at 6:06:57 PM UTC+2, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
> > On Friday, August 27, 2021 at 9:00:19 AM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote:
> > > On Friday, August 27, 2021 at 8:24:36 AM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> > > > On 8/26/2021 6:54 PM, jbeattie wrote:
> > > > > On Thursday, August 26, 2021 at 2:23:47 PM UTC-7, lou.h...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > > >> On Thursday, August 26, 2021 at 9:57:27 PM UTC+2, deaconm...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > > >>> I ask this on another forum but going to drop it here. I sure would like some feedback.
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>> I have long thought of getting a power meter. I am serious rider but older at 60. I don't race but would be cool to have the data and I am a data junkie. My complaint with power meters and cranks is winter training inside on different bike and I have two road bikes. I am totally a road rider I avoid gravel and try to stay on smooth stuff even avoid roads just chipped that are rideable. That is why I want a pedal power meter system. The next gripe is I like Shimano SPD-SL cleats so in past avoided Favero Assioma and other systems. Well now of course they have both in Garmin xc200 and the FA pedals with Shimano cleat computability.
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>> My question is which one to get and if anyone using them now? I don't mind the wider Q-factor I use pedal extenders so not a problem. I currently have Shimano 105 pedals they are 4 years old so not new but work fine. What would anyone recommend. I could simply get the or the Garmin xc200 or Favero A but that only have the spindle and swapped them out. Even though my 105's are not r7000 I still think they would work, My thought though maybe just buy new pedals I don't how many miles 105 go but mine have well over 25000 miles on them. The Garmin would be a whole new package and more money.
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>> I sure hope to get some feedback.
> > > > >> Mark, on one of my bikes I use the Garmin V3 pedals. Like most Garmin products it took a while before they got it right with the current Rally series. After I knew what the initial problem was with the battery compartment I figured out a workaround and I had no problems for 3 years now. Although I had no problems Garmin sent me updated hardware (battery compartment and little PCB) when I asked for it for free without asking any questions. Since I switched to Shimano SPD-SL pedals on my other bike with Shimano DA power cranks that came with the bike I switched the Look compatible pedal bodies of my Garmin V3 pedals with SPD-SL compatible bodies as soon as that came available with the current Rally series. The measuring hardware is in the spindle and that stayed the same. It took me half an hour to switch.. The Garmin power pedals just look as normal pedals (unlike the clumsy looking Favero's) and you can switch them between bikes very easy without any tedious calibration/installation procedure like the SRM Exact pedals. I always take them with me on cycling holidays to put them on the rental bike. Just screw them in like any normal pedal and done. If you are a data junkie then the Garmin pedals will give with a Garmin head unit a ton of power metrics and no need for a cadence sensor, they figure that out from the power cycle.
> > > > >>
> > > > >> For Jay I have a one sided Stages crank arm on my gravel bike. Works fine, terrible app, not as flexible between bikes as the Garmin pedals..
> > > > >>
> > > > >> Lou
> > > > >
> > > > > O.K., fine. Take bread out of the mouths of starving Oregonians. And I'll just tell Tadej Pogacar he made a mistake!
> > > > >
> > > > > https://stagescycling.com/us/news/tadej-pogacar-and-uae-team-emirates-wins-2020-tour-de-france-with-stages-cycling/
> > > > >
> > > > > It's the best.
> > > > Tsk! Guerilla marketing! Where did you learn such a thing?
> > > It's pretty overt -- more like gorilla marketing. I was offered a Stages meter (my son had a spare) and passed because I don't need to know how bad I suck, but I do have an allegiance to the company because they're local and they hired my son when he was in a wheel chair with two broken ankles/leg -- and they do make a good, reasonably priced product. A product of champions! A true Scotsman would buy one.
> > I'm not sure you can get very much information from power meters. Watching others the power varies from zero to 8 or 900 watts on hard acceleration. Average power means very little to me because that isn't what you use climbing. The second you start to coast for any reason, be it to stop overrunning someone or coasting down a descent it drops instantly to zero. What do you learn about power expended on a ride? Seems to me that just tells you how you feel that day.
> Tom more than once you give us average speed to tell us how well you did that ride. That is a really dumb 'ruler' to measure that.

Lou, since I have a limited number of courses, in fact it is a very good measurement. Not to mention that deteriorating fitness due to aging means that SPEED to accomplish a ride is more important than power generated.

On 8/27/2021 11:06 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
> On Friday, August 27, 2021 at 9:00:19 AM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote:
>> On Friday, August 27, 2021 at 8:24:36 AM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>>> On 8/26/2021 6:54 PM, jbeattie wrote:
>>>> On Thursday, August 26, 2021 at 2:23:47 PM UTC-7, lou.h...@gmail.com wrote:
>>>>> On Thursday, August 26, 2021 at 9:57:27 PM UTC+2, deaconm...@gmail.com wrote:
>>>>>> I ask this on another forum but going to drop it here. I sure would like some feedback.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I have long thought of getting a power meter. I am serious rider but older at 60. I don't race but would be cool to have the data and I am a data junkie. My complaint with power meters and cranks is winter training inside on different bike and I have two road bikes. I am totally a road rider I avoid gravel and try to stay on smooth stuff even avoid roads just chipped that are rideable. That is why I want a pedal power meter system. The next gripe is I like Shimano SPD-SL cleats so in past avoided Favero Assioma and other systems. Well now of course they have both in Garmin xc200 and the FA pedals with Shimano cleat computability.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> My question is which one to get and if anyone using them now? I don't mind the wider Q-factor I use pedal extenders so not a problem. I currently have Shimano 105 pedals they are 4 years old so not new but work fine. What would anyone recommend. I could simply get the or the Garmin xc200 or Favero A but that only have the spindle and swapped them out. Even though my 105's are not r7000 I still think they would work, My thought though maybe just buy new pedals I don't how many miles 105 go but mine have well over 25000 miles on them. The Garmin would be a whole new package and more money.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I sure hope to get some feedback.
>>>>> Mark, on one of my bikes I use the Garmin V3 pedals. Like most Garmin products it took a while before they got it right with the current Rally series. After I knew what the initial problem was with the battery compartment I figured out a workaround and I had no problems for 3 years now. Although I had no problems Garmin sent me updated hardware (battery compartment and little PCB) when I asked for it for free without asking any questions. Since I switched to Shimano SPD-SL pedals on my other bike with Shimano DA power cranks that came with the bike I switched the Look compatible pedal bodies of my Garmin V3 pedals with SPD-SL compatible bodies as soon as that came available with the current Rally series. The measuring hardware is in the spindle and that stayed the same. It took me half an hour to switch. The Garmin power pedals just look as normal pedals (unlike the clumsy looking Favero's) and you can switch them between bikes very easy without any tedious calibration/install
ation procedure like the SRM Exact pedals. I always take them with me on cycling holidays to put them on the rental bike. Just screw them in like any normal pedal and done. If you are a data junkie then the Garmin pedals will give with a Garmin head unit a ton of power metrics and no need for a cadence sensor, they figure that out from the power cycle.
>>>>>
>>>>> For Jay I have a one sided Stages crank arm on my gravel bike. Works fine, terrible app, not as flexible between bikes as the Garmin pedals.
>>>>>
>>>>> Lou
>>>>
>>>> O.K., fine. Take bread out of the mouths of starving Oregonians. And I'll just tell Tadej Pogacar he made a mistake!
>>>>
>>>> https://stagescycling.com/us/news/tadej-pogacar-and-uae-team-emirates-wins-2020-tour-de-france-with-stages-cycling/
>>>>
>>>> It's the best.
>>> Tsk! Guerilla marketing! Where did you learn such a thing?
>> It's pretty overt -- more like gorilla marketing. I was offered a Stages meter (my son had a spare) and passed because I don't need to know how bad I suck, but I do have an allegiance to the company because they're local and they hired my son when he was in a wheel chair with two broken ankles/leg -- and they do make a good, reasonably priced product. A product of champions! A true Scotsman would buy one.
>
> I'm not sure you can get very much information from power meters. Watching others the power varies from zero to 8 or 900 watts on hard acceleration. Average power means very little to me because that isn't what you use climbing. The second you start to coast for any reason, be it to stop overrunning someone or coasting down a descent it drops instantly to zero. What do you learn about power expended on a ride? Seems to me that just tells you how you feel that day.
>

au contraire.
One might indeed obtain a great deal of data from a power meter.

Whether the numbers reflect reality is one issue. Whether
you give a damn about one data series or another is a
different issue.

--
Andrew Muzi
<www.yellowjersey.org/>
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On Friday, August 27, 2021 at 8:14:02 PM UTC+2, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Friday, August 27, 2021 at 9:36:32 AM UTC-7, lou.h...@gmail.com wrote:
> > On Friday, August 27, 2021 at 6:06:57 PM UTC+2, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > On Friday, August 27, 2021 at 9:00:19 AM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote:
> > > > On Friday, August 27, 2021 at 8:24:36 AM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> > > > > On 8/26/2021 6:54 PM, jbeattie wrote:
> > > > > > On Thursday, August 26, 2021 at 2:23:47 PM UTC-7, lou.h...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > > > >> On Thursday, August 26, 2021 at 9:57:27 PM UTC+2, deaconm...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > > > >>> I ask this on another forum but going to drop it here. I sure would like some feedback.
> > > > > >>>
> > > > > >>> I have long thought of getting a power meter. I am serious rider but older at 60. I don't race but would be cool to have the data and I am a data junkie. My complaint with power meters and cranks is winter training inside on different bike and I have two road bikes. I am totally a road rider I avoid gravel and try to stay on smooth stuff even avoid roads just chipped that are rideable. That is why I want a pedal power meter system. The next gripe is I like Shimano SPD-SL cleats so in past avoided Favero Assioma and other systems. Well now of course they have both in Garmin xc200 and the FA pedals with Shimano cleat computability.
> > > > > >>>
> > > > > >>> My question is which one to get and if anyone using them now? I don't mind the wider Q-factor I use pedal extenders so not a problem. I currently have Shimano 105 pedals they are 4 years old so not new but work fine. What would anyone recommend. I could simply get the or the Garmin xc200 or Favero A but that only have the spindle and swapped them out. Even though my 105's are not r7000 I still think they would work, My thought though maybe just buy new pedals I don't how many miles 105 go but mine have well over 25000 miles on them. The Garmin would be a whole new package and more money.
> > > > > >>>
> > > > > >>> I sure hope to get some feedback.
> > > > > >> Mark, on one of my bikes I use the Garmin V3 pedals. Like most Garmin products it took a while before they got it right with the current Rally series. After I knew what the initial problem was with the battery compartment I figured out a workaround and I had no problems for 3 years now. Although I had no problems Garmin sent me updated hardware (battery compartment and little PCB) when I asked for it for free without asking any questions. Since I switched to Shimano SPD-SL pedals on my other bike with Shimano DA power cranks that came with the bike I switched the Look compatible pedal bodies of my Garmin V3 pedals with SPD-SL compatible bodies as soon as that came available with the current Rally series. The measuring hardware is in the spindle and that stayed the same. It took me half an hour to switch. The Garmin power pedals just look as normal pedals (unlike the clumsy looking Favero's) and you can switch them between bikes very easy without any tedious calibration/installation procedure like the SRM Exact pedals. I always take them with me on cycling holidays to put them on the rental bike. Just screw them in like any normal pedal and done. If you are a data junkie then the Garmin pedals will give with a Garmin head unit a ton of power metrics and no need for a cadence sensor, they figure that out from the power cycle.
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> For Jay I have a one sided Stages crank arm on my gravel bike. Works fine, terrible app, not as flexible between bikes as the Garmin pedals.
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> Lou
> > > > > >
> > > > > > O.K., fine. Take bread out of the mouths of starving Oregonians.. And I'll just tell Tadej Pogacar he made a mistake!
> > > > > >
> > > > > > https://stagescycling.com/us/news/tadej-pogacar-and-uae-team-emirates-wins-2020-tour-de-france-with-stages-cycling/
> > > > > >
> > > > > > It's the best.
> > > > > Tsk! Guerilla marketing! Where did you learn such a thing?
> > > > It's pretty overt -- more like gorilla marketing. I was offered a Stages meter (my son had a spare) and passed because I don't need to know how bad I suck, but I do have an allegiance to the company because they're local and they hired my son when he was in a wheel chair with two broken ankles/leg -- and they do make a good, reasonably priced product. A product of champions! A true Scotsman would buy one.
> > > I'm not sure you can get very much information from power meters. Watching others the power varies from zero to 8 or 900 watts on hard acceleration. Average power means very little to me because that isn't what you use climbing. The second you start to coast for any reason, be it to stop overrunning someone or coasting down a descent it drops instantly to zero. What do you learn about power expended on a ride? Seems to me that just tells you how you feel that day.
> > Tom more than once you give us average speed to tell us how well you did that ride. That is a really dumb 'ruler' to measure that.
> Lou, since I have a limited number of courses, in fact it is a very good measurement. Not to mention that deteriorating fitness due to aging means that SPEED to accomplish a ride is more important than power generated.

Wind, traffic, temperature, how about that? Today it was windy with some rain showers and average temperature of 16C. Did 78 km with an average speed of 30km/hr and a normalized average power of 181 Watt. Last Wednesday i was sunny, almost no wind and an average temperature of 20C. Did 87 km with an average speed of 31.1 km/hr and a normalize average power of 149 Watt. Today it was a harder ride than last Wednesday despite lower average speed. The average power was significant higher. (Average) speed is not a good indication how hard a ride was.

Lou

On Friday, August 27, 2021 at 12:26:36 PM UTC-7, lou.h...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Friday, August 27, 2021 at 8:14:02 PM UTC+2, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
> > On Friday, August 27, 2021 at 9:36:32 AM UTC-7, lou.h...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > On Friday, August 27, 2021 at 6:06:57 PM UTC+2, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > > On Friday, August 27, 2021 at 9:00:19 AM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote:
> > > > > On Friday, August 27, 2021 at 8:24:36 AM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> > > > > > On 8/26/2021 6:54 PM, jbeattie wrote:
> > > > > > > On Thursday, August 26, 2021 at 2:23:47 PM UTC-7, lou.h...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > > > > >> On Thursday, August 26, 2021 at 9:57:27 PM UTC+2, deaconm...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > > > > >>> I ask this on another forum but going to drop it here. I sure would like some feedback.
> > > > > > >>>
> > > > > > >>> I have long thought of getting a power meter. I am serious rider but older at 60. I don't race but would be cool to have the data and I am a data junkie. My complaint with power meters and cranks is winter training inside on different bike and I have two road bikes. I am totally a road rider I avoid gravel and try to stay on smooth stuff even avoid roads just chipped that are rideable. That is why I want a pedal power meter system.. The next gripe is I like Shimano SPD-SL cleats so in past avoided Favero Assioma and other systems. Well now of course they have both in Garmin xc200 and the FA pedals with Shimano cleat computability.
> > > > > > >>>
> > > > > > >>> My question is which one to get and if anyone using them now? I don't mind the wider Q-factor I use pedal extenders so not a problem. I currently have Shimano 105 pedals they are 4 years old so not new but work fine. What would anyone recommend. I could simply get the or the Garmin xc200 or Favero A but that only have the spindle and swapped them out. Even though my 105's are not r7000 I still think they would work, My thought though maybe just buy new pedals I don't how many miles 105 go but mine have well over 25000 miles on them. The Garmin would be a whole new package and more money.
> > > > > > >>>
> > > > > > >>> I sure hope to get some feedback.
> > > > > > >> Mark, on one of my bikes I use the Garmin V3 pedals. Like most Garmin products it took a while before they got it right with the current Rally series. After I knew what the initial problem was with the battery compartment I figured out a workaround and I had no problems for 3 years now. Although I had no problems Garmin sent me updated hardware (battery compartment and little PCB) when I asked for it for free without asking any questions. Since I switched to Shimano SPD-SL pedals on my other bike with Shimano DA power cranks that came with the bike I switched the Look compatible pedal bodies of my Garmin V3 pedals with SPD-SL compatible bodies as soon as that came available with the current Rally series. The measuring hardware is in the spindle and that stayed the same. It took me half an hour to switch. The Garmin power pedals just look as normal pedals (unlike the clumsy looking Favero's) and you can switch them between bikes very easy without any tedious calibration/installation procedure like the SRM Exact pedals. I always take them with me on cycling holidays to put them on the rental bike. Just screw them in like any normal pedal and done. If you are a data junkie then the Garmin pedals will give with a Garmin head unit a ton of power metrics and no need for a cadence sensor, they figure that out from the power cycle.
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >> For Jay I have a one sided Stages crank arm on my gravel bike. Works fine, terrible app, not as flexible between bikes as the Garmin pedals.
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >> Lou
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > O.K., fine. Take bread out of the mouths of starving Oregonians. And I'll just tell Tadej Pogacar he made a mistake!
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > https://stagescycling.com/us/news/tadej-pogacar-and-uae-team-emirates-wins-2020-tour-de-france-with-stages-cycling/
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > It's the best.
> > > > > > Tsk! Guerilla marketing! Where did you learn such a thing?
> > > > > It's pretty overt -- more like gorilla marketing. I was offered a Stages meter (my son had a spare) and passed because I don't need to know how bad I suck, but I do have an allegiance to the company because they're local and they hired my son when he was in a wheel chair with two broken ankles/leg -- and they do make a good, reasonably priced product. A product of champions! A true Scotsman would buy one.
> > > > I'm not sure you can get very much information from power meters. Watching others the power varies from zero to 8 or 900 watts on hard acceleration. Average power means very little to me because that isn't what you use climbing. The second you start to coast for any reason, be it to stop overrunning someone or coasting down a descent it drops instantly to zero. What do you learn about power expended on a ride? Seems to me that just tells you how you feel that day.
> > > Tom more than once you give us average speed to tell us how well you did that ride. That is a really dumb 'ruler' to measure that.
> > Lou, since I have a limited number of courses, in fact it is a very good measurement. Not to mention that deteriorating fitness due to aging means that SPEED to accomplish a ride is more important than power generated.
> Wind, traffic, temperature, how about that? Today it was windy with some rain showers and average temperature of 16C. Did 78 km with an average speed of 30km/hr and a normalized average power of 181 Watt. Last Wednesday i was sunny, almost no wind and an average temperature of 20C. Did 87 km with an average speed of 31.1 km/hr and a normalize average power of 149 Watt. Today it was a harder ride than last Wednesday despite lower average speed. The average power was significant higher. (Average) speed is not a good indication how hard a ride was.

One of the things that the San Francisco bay area is famous for is very stable conditions during the separate seasons and across the seasons. While in towards Livermore it gets hotter than the hinges of hades, the immediate bay area pretty much has a yearly average temperature from 55 degrees to 68 degrees. The winds seldom exceed 20 mph (32 kph) and seldom less than 10 mph. So time of transit of any loop is accurately related to power output. Also, conditions will be stable for weeks so you can compare times over distances with wind and temperature identical. That you find a need for power reporting mechanisms is not indicative that we need them here.

On Monday, August 30, 2021 at 8:59:21 AM UTC-7, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Friday, August 27, 2021 at 12:26:36 PM UTC-7, lou.h...@gmail.com wrote:
> > On Friday, August 27, 2021 at 8:14:02 PM UTC+2, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > On Friday, August 27, 2021 at 9:36:32 AM UTC-7, lou.h...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > > On Friday, August 27, 2021 at 6:06:57 PM UTC+2, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > > > On Friday, August 27, 2021 at 9:00:19 AM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote:
> > > > > > On Friday, August 27, 2021 at 8:24:36 AM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> > > > > > > On 8/26/2021 6:54 PM, jbeattie wrote:
> > > > > > > > On Thursday, August 26, 2021 at 2:23:47 PM UTC-7, lou.h...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > > > > > >> On Thursday, August 26, 2021 at 9:57:27 PM UTC+2, deaconm....@gmail.com wrote:
> > > > > > > >>> I ask this on another forum but going to drop it here. I sure would like some feedback.
> > > > > > > >>>
> > > > > > > >>> I have long thought of getting a power meter. I am serious rider but older at 60. I don't race but would be cool to have the data and I am a data junkie. My complaint with power meters and cranks is winter training inside on different bike and I have two road bikes. I am totally a road rider I avoid gravel and try to stay on smooth stuff even avoid roads just chipped that are rideable. That is why I want a pedal power meter system. The next gripe is I like Shimano SPD-SL cleats so in past avoided Favero Assioma and other systems. Well now of course they have both in Garmin xc200 and the FA pedals with Shimano cleat computability.
> > > > > > > >>>
> > > > > > > >>> My question is which one to get and if anyone using them now? I don't mind the wider Q-factor I use pedal extenders so not a problem.. I currently have Shimano 105 pedals they are 4 years old so not new but work fine. What would anyone recommend. I could simply get the or the Garmin xc200 or Favero A but that only have the spindle and swapped them out. Even though my 105's are not r7000 I still think they would work, My thought though maybe just buy new pedals I don't how many miles 105 go but mine have well over 25000 miles on them. The Garmin would be a whole new package and more money.
> > > > > > > >>>
> > > > > > > >>> I sure hope to get some feedback.
> > > > > > > >> Mark, on one of my bikes I use the Garmin V3 pedals. Like most Garmin products it took a while before they got it right with the current Rally series. After I knew what the initial problem was with the battery compartment I figured out a workaround and I had no problems for 3 years now. Although I had no problems Garmin sent me updated hardware (battery compartment and little PCB) when I asked for it for free without asking any questions. Since I switched to Shimano SPD-SL pedals on my other bike with Shimano DA power cranks that came with the bike I switched the Look compatible pedal bodies of my Garmin V3 pedals with SPD-SL compatible bodies as soon as that came available with the current Rally series. The measuring hardware is in the spindle and that stayed the same. It took me half an hour to switch. The Garmin power pedals just look as normal pedals (unlike the clumsy looking Favero's) and you can switch them between bikes very easy without any tedious calibration/installation procedure like the SRM Exact pedals. I always take them with me on cycling holidays to put them on the rental bike. Just screw them in like any normal pedal and done. If you are a data junkie then the Garmin pedals will give with a Garmin head unit a ton of power metrics and no need for a cadence sensor, they figure that out from the power cycle.
> > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > >> For Jay I have a one sided Stages crank arm on my gravel bike. Works fine, terrible app, not as flexible between bikes as the Garmin pedals.
> > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > >> Lou
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > O.K., fine. Take bread out of the mouths of starving Oregonians. And I'll just tell Tadej Pogacar he made a mistake!
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > https://stagescycling.com/us/news/tadej-pogacar-and-uae-team-emirates-wins-2020-tour-de-france-with-stages-cycling/
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > It's the best.
> > > > > > > Tsk! Guerilla marketing! Where did you learn such a thing?
> > > > > > It's pretty overt -- more like gorilla marketing. I was offered a Stages meter (my son had a spare) and passed because I don't need to know how bad I suck, but I do have an allegiance to the company because they're local and they hired my son when he was in a wheel chair with two broken ankles/leg -- and they do make a good, reasonably priced product. A product of champions! A true Scotsman would buy one.
> > > > > I'm not sure you can get very much information from power meters. Watching others the power varies from zero to 8 or 900 watts on hard acceleration. Average power means very little to me because that isn't what you use climbing. The second you start to coast for any reason, be it to stop overrunning someone or coasting down a descent it drops instantly to zero. What do you learn about power expended on a ride? Seems to me that just tells you how you feel that day.
> > > > Tom more than once you give us average speed to tell us how well you did that ride. That is a really dumb 'ruler' to measure that.
> > > Lou, since I have a limited number of courses, in fact it is a very good measurement. Not to mention that deteriorating fitness due to aging means that SPEED to accomplish a ride is more important than power generated.
> > Wind, traffic, temperature, how about that? Today it was windy with some rain showers and average temperature of 16C. Did 78 km with an average speed of 30km/hr and a normalized average power of 181 Watt. Last Wednesday i was sunny, almost no wind and an average temperature of 20C. Did 87 km with an average speed of 31.1 km/hr and a normalize average power of 149 Watt. Today it was a harder ride than last Wednesday despite lower average speed.. The average power was significant higher. (Average) speed is not a good indication how hard a ride was.
> One of the things that the San Francisco bay area is famous for is very stable conditions during the separate seasons and across the seasons. While in towards Livermore it gets hotter than the hinges of hades, the immediate bay area pretty much has a yearly average temperature from 55 degrees to 68 degrees. The winds seldom exceed 20 mph (32 kph) and seldom less than 10 mph. So time of transit of any loop is accurately related to power output. Also, conditions will be stable for weeks so you can compare times over distances with wind and temperature identical. That you find a need for power reporting mechanisms is not indicative that we need them here.

Your total time for riding a particular course may say little about your power over certain parts of the course, which is the whole idea behind Strava segments, interval training, etc., etc. Your best ever power-output on a climb may come when your total course time is relatively slow, and probably because it is slow -- you just roll up the climb and then hammer, and then roll home. Again, I'm not a power meter kind of guy -- except for the fact that everybody should buy a Stages power meter to keep the Portland economy strong -- but if you are a power meter kind of guy, just knowing the time it takes to complete a certain course doesn't really cut it.

-- Jay Beattie.

On Monday, August 30, 2021 at 10:55:33 AM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote:
> On Monday, August 30, 2021 at 8:59:21 AM UTC-7, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
> > On Friday, August 27, 2021 at 12:26:36 PM UTC-7, lou.h...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > On Friday, August 27, 2021 at 8:14:02 PM UTC+2, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > > On Friday, August 27, 2021 at 9:36:32 AM UTC-7, lou.h...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > > > On Friday, August 27, 2021 at 6:06:57 PM UTC+2, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > > > > On Friday, August 27, 2021 at 9:00:19 AM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote:
> > > > > > > On Friday, August 27, 2021 at 8:24:36 AM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> > > > > > > > On 8/26/2021 6:54 PM, jbeattie wrote:
> > > > > > > > > On Thursday, August 26, 2021 at 2:23:47 PM UTC-7, lou.h....@gmail.com wrote:
> > > > > > > > >> On Thursday, August 26, 2021 at 9:57:27 PM UTC+2, deaconm...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > > > > > > >>> I ask this on another forum but going to drop it here. I sure would like some feedback.
> > > > > > > > >>>
> > > > > > > > >>> I have long thought of getting a power meter. I am serious rider but older at 60. I don't race but would be cool to have the data and I am a data junkie. My complaint with power meters and cranks is winter training inside on different bike and I have two road bikes. I am totally a road rider I avoid gravel and try to stay on smooth stuff even avoid roads just chipped that are rideable. That is why I want a pedal power meter system. The next gripe is I like Shimano SPD-SL cleats so in past avoided Favero Assioma and other systems. Well now of course they have both in Garmin xc200 and the FA pedals with Shimano cleat computability.
> > > > > > > > >>>
> > > > > > > > >>> My question is which one to get and if anyone using them now? I don't mind the wider Q-factor I use pedal extenders so not a problem. I currently have Shimano 105 pedals they are 4 years old so not new but work fine. What would anyone recommend. I could simply get the or the Garmin xc200 or Favero A but that only have the spindle and swapped them out. Even though my 105's are not r7000 I still think they would work, My thought though maybe just buy new pedals I don't how many miles 105 go but mine have well over 25000 miles on them. The Garmin would be a whole new package and more money.
> > > > > > > > >>>
> > > > > > > > >>> I sure hope to get some feedback.
> > > > > > > > >> Mark, on one of my bikes I use the Garmin V3 pedals. Like most Garmin products it took a while before they got it right with the current Rally series. After I knew what the initial problem was with the battery compartment I figured out a workaround and I had no problems for 3 years now. Although I had no problems Garmin sent me updated hardware (battery compartment and little PCB) when I asked for it for free without asking any questions. Since I switched to Shimano SPD-SL pedals on my other bike with Shimano DA power cranks that came with the bike I switched the Look compatible pedal bodies of my Garmin V3 pedals with SPD-SL compatible bodies as soon as that came available with the current Rally series. The measuring hardware is in the spindle and that stayed the same. It took me half an hour to switch. The Garmin power pedals just look as normal pedals (unlike the clumsy looking Favero's) and you can switch them between bikes very easy without any tedious calibration/installation procedure like the SRM Exact pedals. I always take them with me on cycling holidays to put them on the rental bike. Just screw them in like any normal pedal and done. If you are a data junkie then the Garmin pedals will give with a Garmin head unit a ton of power metrics and no need for a cadence sensor, they figure that out from the power cycle.
> > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > >> For Jay I have a one sided Stages crank arm on my gravel bike. Works fine, terrible app, not as flexible between bikes as the Garmin pedals.
> > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > >> Lou
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > O.K., fine. Take bread out of the mouths of starving Oregonians. And I'll just tell Tadej Pogacar he made a mistake!
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > https://stagescycling.com/us/news/tadej-pogacar-and-uae-team-emirates-wins-2020-tour-de-france-with-stages-cycling/
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > It's the best.
> > > > > > > > Tsk! Guerilla marketing! Where did you learn such a thing?
> > > > > > > It's pretty overt -- more like gorilla marketing. I was offered a Stages meter (my son had a spare) and passed because I don't need to know how bad I suck, but I do have an allegiance to the company because they're local and they hired my son when he was in a wheel chair with two broken ankles/leg -- and they do make a good, reasonably priced product. A product of champions! A true Scotsman would buy one.
> > > > > > I'm not sure you can get very much information from power meters. Watching others the power varies from zero to 8 or 900 watts on hard acceleration. Average power means very little to me because that isn't what you use climbing. The second you start to coast for any reason, be it to stop overrunning someone or coasting down a descent it drops instantly to zero. What do you learn about power expended on a ride? Seems to me that just tells you how you feel that day.
> > > > > Tom more than once you give us average speed to tell us how well you did that ride. That is a really dumb 'ruler' to measure that.
> > > > Lou, since I have a limited number of courses, in fact it is a very good measurement. Not to mention that deteriorating fitness due to aging means that SPEED to accomplish a ride is more important than power generated..
> > > Wind, traffic, temperature, how about that? Today it was windy with some rain showers and average temperature of 16C. Did 78 km with an average speed of 30km/hr and a normalized average power of 181 Watt. Last Wednesday i was sunny, almost no wind and an average temperature of 20C. Did 87 km with an average speed of 31.1 km/hr and a normalize average power of 149 Watt. Today it was a harder ride than last Wednesday despite lower average speed. The average power was significant higher. (Average) speed is not a good indication how hard a ride was.
> > One of the things that the San Francisco bay area is famous for is very stable conditions during the separate seasons and across the seasons. While in towards Livermore it gets hotter than the hinges of hades, the immediate bay area pretty much has a yearly average temperature from 55 degrees to 68 degrees. The winds seldom exceed 20 mph (32 kph) and seldom less than 10 mph. So time of transit of any loop is accurately related to power output.. Also, conditions will be stable for weeks so you can compare times over distances with wind and temperature identical. That you find a need for power reporting mechanisms is not indicative that we need them here.
> Your total time for riding a particular course may say little about your power over certain parts of the course, which is the whole idea behind Strava segments, interval training, etc., etc. Your best ever power-output on a climb may come when your total course time is relatively slow, and probably because it is slow -- you just roll up the climb and then hammer, and then roll home. Again, I'm not a power meter kind of guy -- except for the fact that everybody should buy a Stages power meter to keep the Portland economy strong -- but if you are a power meter kind of guy, just knowing the time it takes to complete a certain course doesn't really cut it.
>
> -- Jay Beattie.
Jay, maybe you think that people have high strava section times and low section times but that isn't the way I ride.

On Monday, August 30, 2021 at 8:39:31 PM UTC+2, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Monday, August 30, 2021 at 10:55:33 AM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote:
> > On Monday, August 30, 2021 at 8:59:21 AM UTC-7, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > On Friday, August 27, 2021 at 12:26:36 PM UTC-7, lou.h...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > > On Friday, August 27, 2021 at 8:14:02 PM UTC+2, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > > > On Friday, August 27, 2021 at 9:36:32 AM UTC-7, lou.h...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > > > > On Friday, August 27, 2021 at 6:06:57 PM UTC+2, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > > > > > On Friday, August 27, 2021 at 9:00:19 AM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote:
> > > > > > > > On Friday, August 27, 2021 at 8:24:36 AM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> > > > > > > > > On 8/26/2021 6:54 PM, jbeattie wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > On Thursday, August 26, 2021 at 2:23:47 PM UTC-7, lou.h....@gmail.com wrote:
> > > > > > > > > >> On Thursday, August 26, 2021 at 9:57:27 PM UTC+2, deaconm...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > > > > > > > >>> I ask this on another forum but going to drop it here.. I sure would like some feedback.
> > > > > > > > > >>>
> > > > > > > > > >>> I have long thought of getting a power meter. I am serious rider but older at 60. I don't race but would be cool to have the data and I am a data junkie. My complaint with power meters and cranks is winter training inside on different bike and I have two road bikes. I am totally a road rider I avoid gravel and try to stay on smooth stuff even avoid roads just chipped that are rideable. That is why I want a pedal power meter system. The next gripe is I like Shimano SPD-SL cleats so in past avoided Favero Assioma and other systems. Well now of course they have both in Garmin xc200 and the FA pedals with Shimano cleat computability.
> > > > > > > > > >>>
> > > > > > > > > >>> My question is which one to get and if anyone using them now? I don't mind the wider Q-factor I use pedal extenders so not a problem. I currently have Shimano 105 pedals they are 4 years old so not new but work fine. What would anyone recommend. I could simply get the or the Garmin xc200 or Favero A but that only have the spindle and swapped them out. Even though my 105's are not r7000 I still think they would work, My thought though maybe just buy new pedals I don't how many miles 105 go but mine have well over 25000 miles on them. The Garmin would be a whole new package and more money.
> > > > > > > > > >>>
> > > > > > > > > >>> I sure hope to get some feedback.
> > > > > > > > > >> Mark, on one of my bikes I use the Garmin V3 pedals. Like most Garmin products it took a while before they got it right with the current Rally series. After I knew what the initial problem was with the battery compartment I figured out a workaround and I had no problems for 3 years now. Although I had no problems Garmin sent me updated hardware (battery compartment and little PCB) when I asked for it for free without asking any questions. Since I switched to Shimano SPD-SL pedals on my other bike with Shimano DA power cranks that came with the bike I switched the Look compatible pedal bodies of my Garmin V3 pedals with SPD-SL compatible bodies as soon as that came available with the current Rally series. The measuring hardware is in the spindle and that stayed the same. It took me half an hour to switch. The Garmin power pedals just look as normal pedals (unlike the clumsy looking Favero's) and you can switch them between bikes very easy without any tedious calibration/installation procedure like the SRM Exact pedals. I always take them with me on cycling holidays to put them on the rental bike. Just screw them in like any normal pedal and done. If you are a data junkie then the Garmin pedals will give with a Garmin head unit a ton of power metrics and no need for a cadence sensor, they figure that out from the power cycle.
> > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > >> For Jay I have a one sided Stages crank arm on my gravel bike. Works fine, terrible app, not as flexible between bikes as the Garmin pedals.
> > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > >> Lou
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > O.K., fine. Take bread out of the mouths of starving Oregonians. And I'll just tell Tadej Pogacar he made a mistake!
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > https://stagescycling.com/us/news/tadej-pogacar-and-uae-team-emirates-wins-2020-tour-de-france-with-stages-cycling/
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > It's the best.
> > > > > > > > > Tsk! Guerilla marketing! Where did you learn such a thing?
> > > > > > > > It's pretty overt -- more like gorilla marketing. I was offered a Stages meter (my son had a spare) and passed because I don't need to know how bad I suck, but I do have an allegiance to the company because they're local and they hired my son when he was in a wheel chair with two broken ankles/leg -- and they do make a good, reasonably priced product. A product of champions! A true Scotsman would buy one.
> > > > > > > I'm not sure you can get very much information from power meters. Watching others the power varies from zero to 8 or 900 watts on hard acceleration. Average power means very little to me because that isn't what you use climbing. The second you start to coast for any reason, be it to stop overrunning someone or coasting down a descent it drops instantly to zero. What do you learn about power expended on a ride? Seems to me that just tells you how you feel that day.
> > > > > > Tom more than once you give us average speed to tell us how well you did that ride. That is a really dumb 'ruler' to measure that.
> > > > > Lou, since I have a limited number of courses, in fact it is a very good measurement. Not to mention that deteriorating fitness due to aging means that SPEED to accomplish a ride is more important than power generated.
> > > > Wind, traffic, temperature, how about that? Today it was windy with some rain showers and average temperature of 16C. Did 78 km with an average speed of 30km/hr and a normalized average power of 181 Watt. Last Wednesday i was sunny, almost no wind and an average temperature of 20C. Did 87 km with an average speed of 31.1 km/hr and a normalize average power of 149 Watt. Today it was a harder ride than last Wednesday despite lower average speed. The average power was significant higher. (Average) speed is not a good indication how hard a ride was.
> > > One of the things that the San Francisco bay area is famous for is very stable conditions during the separate seasons and across the seasons. While in towards Livermore it gets hotter than the hinges of hades, the immediate bay area pretty much has a yearly average temperature from 55 degrees to 68 degrees. The winds seldom exceed 20 mph (32 kph) and seldom less than 10 mph. So time of transit of any loop is accurately related to power output. Also, conditions will be stable for weeks so you can compare times over distances with wind and temperature identical. That you find a need for power reporting mechanisms is not indicative that we need them here.
> > Your total time for riding a particular course may say little about your power over certain parts of the course, which is the whole idea behind Strava segments, interval training, etc., etc. Your best ever power-output on a climb may come when your total course time is relatively slow, and probably because it is slow -- you just roll up the climb and then hammer, and then roll home. Again, I'm not a power meter kind of guy -- except for the fact that everybody should buy a Stages power meter to keep the Portland economy strong -- but if you are a power meter kind of guy, just knowing the time it takes to complete a certain course doesn't really cut it.
> >
> > -- Jay Beattie.
> Jay, maybe you think that people have high strava section times and low section times but that isn't the way I ride.

Tom, power is a measure of the intensity at which you cycle. You can use that to pace yourself if you know the power you can sustain or to get better by training at a certain intensity at the right moment. If you not into that don't buy/use a power meter becasue you have to take the time to use a power meter as described above. Simple as that.

Lou

On Monday, August 30, 2021 at 12:04:36 PM UTC-7, lou.h...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Monday, August 30, 2021 at 8:39:31 PM UTC+2, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
> > On Monday, August 30, 2021 at 10:55:33 AM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote:
> > > On Monday, August 30, 2021 at 8:59:21 AM UTC-7, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > > On Friday, August 27, 2021 at 12:26:36 PM UTC-7, lou.h...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > > > On Friday, August 27, 2021 at 8:14:02 PM UTC+2, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > > > > On Friday, August 27, 2021 at 9:36:32 AM UTC-7, lou.h...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > > > > > On Friday, August 27, 2021 at 6:06:57 PM UTC+2, cycl...@gmail..com wrote:
> > > > > > > > On Friday, August 27, 2021 at 9:00:19 AM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote:
> > > > > > > > > On Friday, August 27, 2021 at 8:24:36 AM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > On 8/26/2021 6:54 PM, jbeattie wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > > On Thursday, August 26, 2021 at 2:23:47 PM UTC-7, lou..h...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > >> On Thursday, August 26, 2021 at 9:57:27 PM UTC+2, deaconm...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > >>> I ask this on another forum but going to drop it here. I sure would like some feedback.
> > > > > > > > > > >>>
> > > > > > > > > > >>> I have long thought of getting a power meter. I am serious rider but older at 60. I don't race but would be cool to have the data and I am a data junkie. My complaint with power meters and cranks is winter training inside on different bike and I have two road bikes. I am totally a road rider I avoid gravel and try to stay on smooth stuff even avoid roads just chipped that are rideable. That is why I want a pedal power meter system. The next gripe is I like Shimano SPD-SL cleats so in past avoided Favero Assioma and other systems. Well now of course they have both in Garmin xc200 and the FA pedals with Shimano cleat computability.
> > > > > > > > > > >>>
> > > > > > > > > > >>> My question is which one to get and if anyone using them now? I don't mind the wider Q-factor I use pedal extenders so not a problem. I currently have Shimano 105 pedals they are 4 years old so not new but work fine. What would anyone recommend. I could simply get the or the Garmin xc200 or Favero A but that only have the spindle and swapped them out. Even though my 105's are not r7000 I still think they would work, My thought though maybe just buy new pedals I don't how many miles 105 go but mine have well over 25000 miles on them. The Garmin would be a whole new package and more money.
> > > > > > > > > > >>>
> > > > > > > > > > >>> I sure hope to get some feedback.
> > > > > > > > > > >> Mark, on one of my bikes I use the Garmin V3 pedals. Like most Garmin products it took a while before they got it right with the current Rally series. After I knew what the initial problem was with the battery compartment I figured out a workaround and I had no problems for 3 years now. Although I had no problems Garmin sent me updated hardware (battery compartment and little PCB) when I asked for it for free without asking any questions. Since I switched to Shimano SPD-SL pedals on my other bike with Shimano DA power cranks that came with the bike I switched the Look compatible pedal bodies of my Garmin V3 pedals with SPD-SL compatible bodies as soon as that came available with the current Rally series. The measuring hardware is in the spindle and that stayed the same. It took me half an hour to switch. The Garmin power pedals just look as normal pedals (unlike the clumsy looking Favero's) and you can switch them between bikes very easy without any tedious calibration/installation procedure like the SRM Exact pedals. I always take them with me on cycling holidays to put them on the rental bike. Just screw them in like any normal pedal and done. If you are a data junkie then the Garmin pedals will give with a Garmin head unit a ton of power metrics and no need for a cadence sensor, they figure that out from the power cycle.
> > > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > > >> For Jay I have a one sided Stages crank arm on my gravel bike. Works fine, terrible app, not as flexible between bikes as the Garmin pedals.
> > > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > > >> Lou
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > O.K., fine. Take bread out of the mouths of starving Oregonians. And I'll just tell Tadej Pogacar he made a mistake!
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > https://stagescycling.com/us/news/tadej-pogacar-and-uae-team-emirates-wins-2020-tour-de-france-with-stages-cycling/
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > It's the best.
> > > > > > > > > > Tsk! Guerilla marketing! Where did you learn such a thing?
> > > > > > > > > It's pretty overt -- more like gorilla marketing. I was offered a Stages meter (my son had a spare) and passed because I don't need to know how bad I suck, but I do have an allegiance to the company because they're local and they hired my son when he was in a wheel chair with two broken ankles/leg -- and they do make a good, reasonably priced product. A product of champions! A true Scotsman would buy one.
> > > > > > > > I'm not sure you can get very much information from power meters. Watching others the power varies from zero to 8 or 900 watts on hard acceleration. Average power means very little to me because that isn't what you use climbing. The second you start to coast for any reason, be it to stop overrunning someone or coasting down a descent it drops instantly to zero. What do you learn about power expended on a ride? Seems to me that just tells you how you feel that day.
> > > > > > > Tom more than once you give us average speed to tell us how well you did that ride. That is a really dumb 'ruler' to measure that.
> > > > > > Lou, since I have a limited number of courses, in fact it is a very good measurement. Not to mention that deteriorating fitness due to aging means that SPEED to accomplish a ride is more important than power generated.
> > > > > Wind, traffic, temperature, how about that? Today it was windy with some rain showers and average temperature of 16C. Did 78 km with an average speed of 30km/hr and a normalized average power of 181 Watt. Last Wednesday i was sunny, almost no wind and an average temperature of 20C. Did 87 km with an average speed of 31.1 km/hr and a normalize average power of 149 Watt. Today it was a harder ride than last Wednesday despite lower average speed. The average power was significant higher. (Average) speed is not a good indication how hard a ride was.
> > > > One of the things that the San Francisco bay area is famous for is very stable conditions during the separate seasons and across the seasons. While in towards Livermore it gets hotter than the hinges of hades, the immediate bay area pretty much has a yearly average temperature from 55 degrees to 68 degrees. The winds seldom exceed 20 mph (32 kph) and seldom less than 10 mph. So time of transit of any loop is accurately related to power output. Also, conditions will be stable for weeks so you can compare times over distances with wind and temperature identical. That you find a need for power reporting mechanisms is not indicative that we need them here.
> > > Your total time for riding a particular course may say little about your power over certain parts of the course, which is the whole idea behind Strava segments, interval training, etc., etc. Your best ever power-output on a climb may come when your total course time is relatively slow, and probably because it is slow -- you just roll up the climb and then hammer, and then roll home. Again, I'm not a power meter kind of guy -- except for the fact that everybody should buy a Stages power meter to keep the Portland economy strong -- but if you are a power meter kind of guy, just knowing the time it takes to complete a certain course doesn't really cut it.
> > >
> > > -- Jay Beattie.
> > Jay, maybe you think that people have high strava section times and low section times but that isn't the way I ride.
> Tom, power is a measure of the intensity at which you cycle. You can use that to pace yourself if you know the power you can sustain or to get better by training at a certain intensity at the right moment. If you not into that don't buy/use a power meter becasue you have to take the time to use a power meter as described above. Simple as that.

Lou, maybe you didn't notice but I don't have a power meter. I used one for about 3 months saw not the slightest practicality for those numbers and dumped it. If you find the statistics as somehow practical for your riding that's fine. But I see absolutely nothing in it.

On Tuesday, August 31, 2021 at 1:40:17 AM UTC+2, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Monday, August 30, 2021 at 12:04:36 PM UTC-7, lou.h...@gmail.com wrote:
> > On Monday, August 30, 2021 at 8:39:31 PM UTC+2, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > On Monday, August 30, 2021 at 10:55:33 AM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote:
> > > > On Monday, August 30, 2021 at 8:59:21 AM UTC-7, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > > > On Friday, August 27, 2021 at 12:26:36 PM UTC-7, lou.h...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > > > > On Friday, August 27, 2021 at 8:14:02 PM UTC+2, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > > > > > On Friday, August 27, 2021 at 9:36:32 AM UTC-7, lou.h...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > > > > > > On Friday, August 27, 2021 at 6:06:57 PM UTC+2, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > > > > > > > On Friday, August 27, 2021 at 9:00:19 AM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > On Friday, August 27, 2021 at 8:24:36 AM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > > On 8/26/2021 6:54 PM, jbeattie wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > > > On Thursday, August 26, 2021 at 2:23:47 PM UTC-7, lou.h...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > > >> On Thursday, August 26, 2021 at 9:57:27 PM UTC+2, deaconm...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > > >>> I ask this on another forum but going to drop it here. I sure would like some feedback.
> > > > > > > > > > > >>>
> > > > > > > > > > > >>> I have long thought of getting a power meter. I am serious rider but older at 60. I don't race but would be cool to have the data and I am a data junkie. My complaint with power meters and cranks is winter training inside on different bike and I have two road bikes. I am totally a road rider I avoid gravel and try to stay on smooth stuff even avoid roads just chipped that are rideable. That is why I want a pedal power meter system. The next gripe is I like Shimano SPD-SL cleats so in past avoided Favero Assioma and other systems. Well now of course they have both in Garmin xc200 and the FA pedals with Shimano cleat computability.
> > > > > > > > > > > >>>
> > > > > > > > > > > >>> My question is which one to get and if anyone using them now? I don't mind the wider Q-factor I use pedal extenders so not a problem. I currently have Shimano 105 pedals they are 4 years old so not new but work fine. What would anyone recommend. I could simply get the or the Garmin xc200 or Favero A but that only have the spindle and swapped them out. Even though my 105's are not r7000 I still think they would work, My thought though maybe just buy new pedals I don't how many miles 105 go but mine have well over 25000 miles on them. The Garmin would be a whole new package and more money.
> > > > > > > > > > > >>>
> > > > > > > > > > > >>> I sure hope to get some feedback.
> > > > > > > > > > > >> Mark, on one of my bikes I use the Garmin V3 pedals. Like most Garmin products it took a while before they got it right with the current Rally series. After I knew what the initial problem was with the battery compartment I figured out a workaround and I had no problems for 3 years now. Although I had no problems Garmin sent me updated hardware (battery compartment and little PCB) when I asked for it for free without asking any questions. Since I switched to Shimano SPD-SL pedals on my other bike with Shimano DA power cranks that came with the bike I switched the Look compatible pedal bodies of my Garmin V3 pedals with SPD-SL compatible bodies as soon as that came available with the current Rally series. The measuring hardware is in the spindle and that stayed the same. It took me half an hour to switch. The Garmin power pedals just look as normal pedals (unlike the clumsy looking Favero's) and you can switch them between bikes very easy without any tedious calibration/installation procedure like the SRM Exact pedals. I always take them with me on cycling holidays to put them on the rental bike. Just screw them in like any normal pedal and done. If you are a data junkie then the Garmin pedals will give with a Garmin head unit a ton of power metrics and no need for a cadence sensor, they figure that out from the power cycle.
> > > > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > > > >> For Jay I have a one sided Stages crank arm on my gravel bike. Works fine, terrible app, not as flexible between bikes as the Garmin pedals.
> > > > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > > > >> Lou
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > O.K., fine. Take bread out of the mouths of starving Oregonians. And I'll just tell Tadej Pogacar he made a mistake!
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > https://stagescycling.com/us/news/tadej-pogacar-and-uae-team-emirates-wins-2020-tour-de-france-with-stages-cycling/
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > It's the best.
> > > > > > > > > > > Tsk! Guerilla marketing! Where did you learn such a thing?
> > > > > > > > > > It's pretty overt -- more like gorilla marketing. I was offered a Stages meter (my son had a spare) and passed because I don't need to know how bad I suck, but I do have an allegiance to the company because they're local and they hired my son when he was in a wheel chair with two broken ankles/leg -- and they do make a good, reasonably priced product. A product of champions! A true Scotsman would buy one.
> > > > > > > > > I'm not sure you can get very much information from power meters. Watching others the power varies from zero to 8 or 900 watts on hard acceleration. Average power means very little to me because that isn't what you use climbing. The second you start to coast for any reason, be it to stop overrunning someone or coasting down a descent it drops instantly to zero. What do you learn about power expended on a ride? Seems to me that just tells you how you feel that day.
> > > > > > > > Tom more than once you give us average speed to tell us how well you did that ride. That is a really dumb 'ruler' to measure that.
> > > > > > > Lou, since I have a limited number of courses, in fact it is a very good measurement. Not to mention that deteriorating fitness due to aging means that SPEED to accomplish a ride is more important than power generated.
> > > > > > Wind, traffic, temperature, how about that? Today it was windy with some rain showers and average temperature of 16C. Did 78 km with an average speed of 30km/hr and a normalized average power of 181 Watt. Last Wednesday i was sunny, almost no wind and an average temperature of 20C. Did 87 km with an average speed of 31.1 km/hr and a normalize average power of 149 Watt. Today it was a harder ride than last Wednesday despite lower average speed. The average power was significant higher. (Average) speed is not a good indication how hard a ride was.
> > > > > One of the things that the San Francisco bay area is famous for is very stable conditions during the separate seasons and across the seasons.. While in towards Livermore it gets hotter than the hinges of hades, the immediate bay area pretty much has a yearly average temperature from 55 degrees to 68 degrees. The winds seldom exceed 20 mph (32 kph) and seldom less than 10 mph. So time of transit of any loop is accurately related to power output. Also, conditions will be stable for weeks so you can compare times over distances with wind and temperature identical. That you find a need for power reporting mechanisms is not indicative that we need them here.
> > > > Your total time for riding a particular course may say little about your power over certain parts of the course, which is the whole idea behind Strava segments, interval training, etc., etc. Your best ever power-output on a climb may come when your total course time is relatively slow, and probably because it is slow -- you just roll up the climb and then hammer, and then roll home. Again, I'm not a power meter kind of guy -- except for the fact that everybody should buy a Stages power meter to keep the Portland economy strong -- but if you are a power meter kind of guy, just knowing the time it takes to complete a certain course doesn't really cut it.
> > > >
> > > > -- Jay Beattie.
> > > Jay, maybe you think that people have high strava section times and low section times but that isn't the way I ride.
> > Tom, power is a measure of the intensity at which you cycle. You can use that to pace yourself if you know the power you can sustain or to get better by training at a certain intensity at the right moment. If you not into that don't buy/use a power meter becasue you have to take the time to use a power meter as described above. Simple as that.
> Lou, maybe you didn't notice but I don't have a power meter. I used one for about 3 months saw not the slightest practicality for those numbers and dumped it. If you find the statistics as somehow practical for your riding that's fine. But I see absolutely nothing in it.

On Tuesday, August 31, 2021 at 8:23:40 AM UTC-5, lou.h...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Tuesday, August 31, 2021 at 1:40:17 AM UTC+2, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
> > On Monday, August 30, 2021 at 12:04:36 PM UTC-7, lou.h...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > On Monday, August 30, 2021 at 8:39:31 PM UTC+2, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > > On Monday, August 30, 2021 at 10:55:33 AM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote:
> > > > > On Monday, August 30, 2021 at 8:59:21 AM UTC-7, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > > > > On Friday, August 27, 2021 at 12:26:36 PM UTC-7, lou.h...@gmail..com wrote:
> > > > > > > On Friday, August 27, 2021 at 8:14:02 PM UTC+2, cycl...@gmail..com wrote:
> > > > > > > > On Friday, August 27, 2021 at 9:36:32 AM UTC-7, lou.h...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > > > > > > > On Friday, August 27, 2021 at 6:06:57 PM UTC+2, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > On Friday, August 27, 2021 at 9:00:19 AM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > > On Friday, August 27, 2021 at 8:24:36 AM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > > > On 8/26/2021 6:54 PM, jbeattie wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > On Thursday, August 26, 2021 at 2:23:47 PM UTC-7, lou.h...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > > > >> On Thursday, August 26, 2021 at 9:57:27 PM UTC+2, deaconm...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > > > >>> I ask this on another forum but going to drop it here. I sure would like some feedback.
> > > > > > > > > > > > >>>
> > > > > > > > > > > > >>> I have long thought of getting a power meter. I am serious rider but older at 60. I don't race but would be cool to have the data and I am a data junkie. My complaint with power meters and cranks is winter training inside on different bike and I have two road bikes. I am totally a road rider I avoid gravel and try to stay on smooth stuff even avoid roads just chipped that are rideable. That is why I want a pedal power meter system. The next gripe is I like Shimano SPD-SL cleats so in past avoided Favero Assioma and other systems. Well now of course they have both in Garmin xc200 and the FA pedals with Shimano cleat computability.
> > > > > > > > > > > > >>>
> > > > > > > > > > > > >>> My question is which one to get and if anyone using them now? I don't mind the wider Q-factor I use pedal extenders so not a problem. I currently have Shimano 105 pedals they are 4 years old so not new but work fine. What would anyone recommend. I could simply get the or the Garmin xc200 or Favero A but that only have the spindle and swapped them out. Even though my 105's are not r7000 I still think they would work, My thought though maybe just buy new pedals I don't how many miles 105 go but mine have well over 25000 miles on them. The Garmin would be a whole new package and more money.
> > > > > > > > > > > > >>>
> > > > > > > > > > > > >>> I sure hope to get some feedback.
> > > > > > > > > > > > >> Mark, on one of my bikes I use the Garmin V3 pedals. Like most Garmin products it took a while before they got it right with the current Rally series. After I knew what the initial problem was with the battery compartment I figured out a workaround and I had no problems for 3 years now. Although I had no problems Garmin sent me updated hardware (battery compartment and little PCB) when I asked for it for free without asking any questions. Since I switched to Shimano SPD-SL pedals on my other bike with Shimano DA power cranks that came with the bike I switched the Look compatible pedal bodies of my Garmin V3 pedals with SPD-SL compatible bodies as soon as that came available with the current Rally series. The measuring hardware is in the spindle and that stayed the same. It took me half an hour to switch. The Garmin power pedals just look as normal pedals (unlike the clumsy looking Favero's) and you can switch them between bikes very easy without any tedious calibration/installation procedure like the SRM Exact pedals. I always take them with me on cycling holidays to put them on the rental bike. Just screw them in like any normal pedal and done. If you are a data junkie then the Garmin pedals will give with a Garmin head unit a ton of power metrics and no need for a cadence sensor, they figure that out from the power cycle.
> > > > > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > > > > >> For Jay I have a one sided Stages crank arm on my gravel bike. Works fine, terrible app, not as flexible between bikes as the Garmin pedals.
> > > > > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > > > > >> Lou
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > O.K., fine. Take bread out of the mouths of starving Oregonians. And I'll just tell Tadej Pogacar he made a mistake!
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > https://stagescycling.com/us/news/tadej-pogacar-and-uae-team-emirates-wins-2020-tour-de-france-with-stages-cycling/
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > It's the best.
> > > > > > > > > > > > Tsk! Guerilla marketing! Where did you learn such a thing?
> > > > > > > > > > > It's pretty overt -- more like gorilla marketing. I was offered a Stages meter (my son had a spare) and passed because I don't need to know how bad I suck, but I do have an allegiance to the company because they're local and they hired my son when he was in a wheel chair with two broken ankles/leg -- and they do make a good, reasonably priced product. A product of champions! A true Scotsman would buy one.
> > > > > > > > > > I'm not sure you can get very much information from power meters. Watching others the power varies from zero to 8 or 900 watts on hard acceleration. Average power means very little to me because that isn't what you use climbing. The second you start to coast for any reason, be it to stop overrunning someone or coasting down a descent it drops instantly to zero. What do you learn about power expended on a ride? Seems to me that just tells you how you feel that day.
> > > > > > > > > Tom more than once you give us average speed to tell us how well you did that ride. That is a really dumb 'ruler' to measure that.
> > > > > > > > Lou, since I have a limited number of courses, in fact it is a very good measurement. Not to mention that deteriorating fitness due to aging means that SPEED to accomplish a ride is more important than power generated.
> > > > > > > Wind, traffic, temperature, how about that? Today it was windy with some rain showers and average temperature of 16C. Did 78 km with an average speed of 30km/hr and a normalized average power of 181 Watt. Last Wednesday i was sunny, almost no wind and an average temperature of 20C. Did 87 km with an average speed of 31.1 km/hr and a normalize average power of 149 Watt. Today it was a harder ride than last Wednesday despite lower average speed. The average power was significant higher. (Average) speed is not a good indication how hard a ride was.
> > > > > > One of the things that the San Francisco bay area is famous for is very stable conditions during the separate seasons and across the seasons. While in towards Livermore it gets hotter than the hinges of hades, the immediate bay area pretty much has a yearly average temperature from 55 degrees to 68 degrees. The winds seldom exceed 20 mph (32 kph) and seldom less than 10 mph. So time of transit of any loop is accurately related to power output. Also, conditions will be stable for weeks so you can compare times over distances with wind and temperature identical. That you find a need for power reporting mechanisms is not indicative that we need them here.
> > > > > Your total time for riding a particular course may say little about your power over certain parts of the course, which is the whole idea behind Strava segments, interval training, etc., etc. Your best ever power-output on a climb may come when your total course time is relatively slow, and probably because it is slow -- you just roll up the climb and then hammer, and then roll home. Again, I'm not a power meter kind of guy -- except for the fact that everybody should buy a Stages power meter to keep the Portland economy strong -- but if you are a power meter kind of guy, just knowing the time it takes to complete a certain course doesn't really cut it.
> > > > >
> > > > > -- Jay Beattie.
> > > > Jay, maybe you think that people have high strava section times and low section times but that isn't the way I ride.
> > > Tom, power is a measure of the intensity at which you cycle. You can use that to pace yourself if you know the power you can sustain or to get better by training at a certain intensity at the right moment. If you not into that don't buy/use a power meter becasue you have to take the time to use a power meter as described above. Simple as that.
> > Lou, maybe you didn't notice but I don't have a power meter. I used one for about 3 months saw not the slightest practicality for those numbers and dumped it. If you find the statistics as somehow practical for your riding that's fine. But I see absolutely nothing in it.
> That is fine with me but you stated earlier 'I'm not sure you can get very much information from power meters'. A power meter is the sensor that you can get more information from than from any other sensor. You only have to learn how to use one. If I was only allowed one sensor it would be the power meter.
>
> Lou
Since I don't have a PM my sensor is speed first, elevation gain, and heart rate. I find that my fastest times come with I generally feel the best and recover quicker. The PM I suspect would also say the same thing. When I am tired and beat I notice my heart rate struggles to get up past 130 in sprints and I am not "on top" of the pedal. Unlike when I feel good my heart rate will normally climb to 145 as maximum. I also come home much more beat up and wasted than when I went faster at least most of the time. I would like to see a PM reading on these different cases in training.

On Tuesday, August 31, 2021 at 4:16:18 PM UTC+2, deaconm...@gmail.com wrote:

> > That is fine with me but you stated earlier 'I'm not sure you can get very much information from power meters'. A power meter is the sensor that you can get more information from than from any other sensor. You only have to learn how to use one. If I was only allowed one sensor it would be the power meter.
> >
> > Lou
> Since I don't have a PM my sensor is speed first, elevation gain, and heart rate. I find that my fastest times come with I generally feel the best and recover quicker. The PM I suspect would also say the same thing. When I am tired and beat I notice my heart rate struggles to get up past 130 in sprints and I am not "on top" of the pedal. Unlike when I feel good my heart rate will normally climb to 145 as maximum. I also come home much more beat up and wasted than when I went faster at least most of the time. I would like to see a PM reading on these different cases in training.
>
> In my Marathon personal record in 1992 I finished 3:06 beating my previous best time of 3:09 and felt much better. I ran the last 13.1 miles a bit faster than the first. I recovered pretty fast too.
> Deacon mark

Since you are 'stalking' me ;-) I 'stalking' you back from time to time. I looked at your routes (they are a bit strange) and they are as flat as mine. Todays gain 199 m in 86 km. So why elevation gain as second most important measurement? Completely irrelevant to my on my back door routes.

Lou, just asking and boy you get up early.

On Tuesday, August 31, 2021 at 11:44:26 AM UTC-5, lou.h...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Tuesday, August 31, 2021 at 4:16:18 PM UTC+2, deaconm...@gmail.com wrote:
>
> > > That is fine with me but you stated earlier 'I'm not sure you can get very much information from power meters'. A power meter is the sensor that you can get more information from than from any other sensor. You only have to learn how to use one. If I was only allowed one sensor it would be the power meter.
> > >
> > > Lou
> > Since I don't have a PM my sensor is speed first, elevation gain, and heart rate. I find that my fastest times come with I generally feel the best and recover quicker. The PM I suspect would also say the same thing. When I am tired and beat I notice my heart rate struggles to get up past 130 in sprints and I am not "on top" of the pedal. Unlike when I feel good my heart rate will normally climb to 145 as maximum. I also come home much more beat up and wasted than when I went faster at least most of the time. I would like to see a PM reading on these different cases in training.
> >
> > In my Marathon personal record in 1992 I finished 3:06 beating my previous best time of 3:09 and felt much better. I ran the last 13.1 miles a bit faster than the first. I recovered pretty fast too.
> > Deacon mark
> Since you are 'stalking' me ;-) I 'stalking' you back from time to time. I looked at your routes (they are a bit strange) and they are as flat as mine. Todays gain 199 m in 86 km. So why elevation gain as second most important measurement? Completely irrelevant to my on my back door routes.
>
> Lou, just asking and boy you get up early.

Lou here in Illinois it is about as flat as it gets. The middle of the state is all corn and beans and all the rural roads are sectioned off in 1 mile squares with chip seal. The highest elevation in the State only 1100 feet and the lowest only about 500. All the routes can be very square if you want them to be be and I stay off main roads with more traffic. Sometimes the chip seal is fine and smooth but if they just chipped then I avoid those roads.

My two types of rides at times can be going out from home 25-30 miles and turning around hopefully with the wind. I also have a 4.7 mile continuous loop I do for a tempo ride if I want a good work out but do not want to be far from home it is only 2 miles away. I can this and keep pushing like a criterion. I do this in the winter to avoid winds and in the dark it is safer with streets all lighted up. Sometimes I do what I call boxes. I might ride a section of the country that is say 2 by 4 miles and do a 8 mile box. I do this when the road is good and i like the surface. Finally I live 10 miles from 2 lakes that are popular to ride around and ride around them.

It is possible to find some rolling hills in the area that will make a ride much more than flat. I am not used to climbing anything so I need some practice. There is nothing in the world near here that would even approach a cat 4 climb. To me a %5 grade for a mile is huge. I certainly can do it and get up but just nothing I do much. I am probably my best a simply putting out watts in an even a constant pace. I never as such ride in town unless it is some strange circumstance. I hate stopping and starting and traffic. I hardly ever brake much and have never worn out a set of rim brake pads to the end. It would take me 3 years and I usually just change them due to rubber getting older. I can easily ride a century and not unclip if I want to,

Finally you did notice i do ride early. I get up with the monks at 4 am and try to be out after coffee and Morning Prayer. I love riding early in the morning no traffic really and go out in winter sometime 2 hours before sunrise. I crazy right.
Deacon Mark