I have a an 83-year old friend with no computer who wants something but
isn't sure what she wants. I brought her a laptop and she didn't like
that.

Now she's talking about a smart phone, but mostly to use the web, not
make phone calls.

I was thinking an Android tablet might suit her more, mostly becasue the
screen is bigger, but some questions:

1) Can you install Uber and Lyft on a tablet and if there is wifi where
you are get a taxi with them?

2) Can you install Skype on an android tablet and where there is wifi,
use it to make phone calls. Only occsionally. Most of her talking will
still be from her landline at home, and she doesn't even go out much,
only to an occasional doctor. She's the widow of a good friend, and
I've already given her a couple thousand in cash, and I feel like
treating her now like I treat myself, trying to find a used one at an
upcoming hamfest, or on Ebay. But if it's old, or new and cheap, will
it have a microphone and a speaker?

3) If she wants, I'll get her one of those bluetooth keyboards I just
learned about. Or should I assume any normal person would rather type
on the keyboard than on the virtual tablet keyboard?

Her next door, attached neighbor said she can use his wifi and we did
for about 10 minutes when she had the laptop. It worked fine. I'm
planning to check parts of her house farther from his to see if there is
a signal there too, but I think there will be. So she won't have to pay
for internet. (I'm not generally in favor of this sort of thing, but I
suspect she'll use the web maybe two hours a week, and even if there's a
discount price for old or poor people, it's still a lot for 8 hours a
month, and even that only until she loses interest.)

On 2023-06-04, micky <NONONOmisc07@fmguy.com> wrote:
> I have a an 83-year old friend with no computer who wants something but
> isn't sure what she wants. I brought her a laptop and she didn't like
> that.

If she has no computer, she's already going to be difficult to help.

>
> Now she's talking about a smart phone, but mostly to use the web, not
> make phone calls.

As you are aware, the web on any phone, even a phablet, is too small for
older people whose eyesight isn't what it used to be a 60 years prior.

> I was thinking an Android tablet might suit her more, mostly becasue the
> screen is bigger, but some questions:

An inexpensive laptop seems to me to be the best bet overall if she is only
going to use it at home. The larger the better (for the bigger keyboard).
>
> 1) Can you install Uber and Lyft on a tablet and if there is wifi where
> you are get a taxi with them?

Yes. Of course.

>
> 2) Can you install Skype on an android tablet and where there is wifi,
> use it to make phone calls.

Yes. Of course. Google Voice will be a better choice than Skype though.

> Only occsionally. Most of her talking will
> still be from her landline at home, and she doesn't even go out much,
> only to an occasional doctor. She's the widow of a good friend, and
> I've already given her a couple thousand in cash, and I feel like
> treating her now like I treat myself, trying to find a used one at an
> upcoming hamfest, or on Ebay. But if it's old, or new and cheap, will
> it have a microphone and a speaker?

Probably. Almost certainly.

> 3) If she wants, I'll get her one of those bluetooth keyboards I just
> learned about. Or should I assume any normal person would rather type
> on the keyboard than on the virtual tablet keyboard?

An older person has problems all around with any keyboard other than the
full sized kind. Which is why I suggest a larger laptop if she'll take it.

> Her next door, attached neighbor said she can use his wifi and we did
> for about 10 minutes when she had the laptop. It worked fine.

If you have a spare old router, you can set it up as a wireless bridge
client & repeater where the router picks up & amplifies that Wi-Fi.

> I'm
> planning to check parts of her house farther from his to see if there is
> a signal there too, but I think there will be.

There are good Wi-Fi debugging apps for Android that you can use to test.

> So she won't have to pay
> for internet. (I'm not generally in favor of this sort of thing, but I
> suspect she'll use the web maybe two hours a week, and even if there's a
> discount price for old or poor people, it's still a lot for 8 hours a
> month, and even that only until she loses interest.)

My suggestion is you treat Wi-Fi separately from the tablet/laptop/phone.

Here's what I'd do (if she is willing to accept it) for the Wi-Fi
(1) I'd put an old router along the wall adjoining the neighbor
(2) I'd set it up as a wireless client repeater bridge
(3) Then I'd change the AP SSID & passphrase to something only she knows
(4) I don't know how to do it but you can also "isolate" her AP from his
(5) That gives her (and you) full control over her Wi-Fi independent of his

Now that she has reliably and strong Wi-Fi in her house, then you can work
on the computing device - whether that is a phone, a tablet or laptop.

Teaching her anything (no matter what it is) will be problematic for sure.
What is she familiar with? Android? iOS? Windows? macOS? Chrome?

On 6/4/23 5:31 PM, Incubus wrote:
> On 2023-06-04, micky <NONONOmisc07@fmguy.com> wrote:
>> I have a an 83-year old friend with no computer who wants something but
>> isn't sure what she wants. I brought her a laptop and she didn't like
>> that.
>
> If she has no computer, she's already going to be difficult to help.
>
>>
>> Now she's talking about a smart phone, but mostly to use the web, not
>> make phone calls.

I HATE using my phone for browsing. That's what real computers with 27"
monitors are for. We put mine together in 2011 and I'm still happy with
it. If her eyes are no better than mine she'll hate the phone just as
much as I do.

> As you are aware, the web on any phone, even a phablet, is too small for
> older people whose eyesight isn't what it used to be a 60 years prior.

Or whose eyesight has ALWAYS sucked, even as a teen.

>> I was thinking an Android tablet might suit her more, mostly becasue the
>> screen is bigger, but some questions:
>
> An inexpensive laptop seems to me to be the best bet overall if she is only
> going to use it at home. The larger the better (for the bigger keyboard).
>>
>> 1) Can you install Uber and Lyft on a tablet and if there is wifi where
>> you are get a taxi with them?
>
> Yes. Of course.
>
>>
>> 2) Can you install Skype on an android tablet and where there is wifi,
>> use it to make phone calls.
>
> Yes. Of course. Google Voice will be a better choice than Skype though.

Is it possible to RECEIVE calls at a google voice number? Mine insists
on forwarding incoming wifi calls to my cell number, which is exactly
what I DON'T want. Making calls works fine as long as I have a decent
connection.

>> Only occsionally. Most of her talking will
>> still be from her landline at home, and she doesn't even go out much,
>> only to an occasional doctor. She's the widow of a good friend, and
>> I've already given her a couple thousand in cash, and I feel like
>> treating her now like I treat myself, trying to find a used one at an
>> upcoming hamfest, or on Ebay. But if it's old, or new and cheap, will
>> it have a microphone and a speaker?
>
> Probably. Almost certainly.

If you're going to configure it for her and it's a really old machine,
consider putting one of the user-friendly linux distros on it. She can
browse, send email, etc. with no more difficulty than with windows and
it won't trouble her as much with mysterious messages.
>> 3) If she wants, I'll get her one of those bluetooth keyboards I just
>> learned about. Or should I assume any normal person would rather type
>> on the keyboard than on the virtual tablet keyboard?
>
> An older person has problems all around with any keyboard other than the
> full sized kind. Which is why I suggest a larger laptop if she'll take it.

I would never choose a virtual keyboard over a real one, and I would
never choose ANY real keyboard over an IBM Model M.

>> Her next door, attached neighbor said she can use his wifi and we did
>> for about 10 minutes when she had the laptop. It worked fine.
>
> If you have a spare old router, you can set it up as a wireless bridge
> client & repeater where the router picks up & amplifies that Wi-Fi.
>
>> I'm
>> planning to check parts of her house farther from his to see if there is
>> a signal there too, but I think there will be.
>
> There are good Wi-Fi debugging apps for Android that you can use to test.
>
>> So she won't have to pay
>> for internet. (I'm not generally in favor of this sort of thing,

Whyever not? The neighbor can do whatever he wants with his connection.

>> but I
>> suspect she'll use the web maybe two hours a week, and even if there's a
>> discount price for old or poor people, it's still a lot for 8 hours a
>> month, and even that only until she loses interest.)
>
> My suggestion is you treat Wi-Fi separately from the tablet/laptop/phone.
>
> Here's what I'd do (if she is willing to accept it) for the Wi-Fi
> (1) I'd put an old router along the wall adjoining the neighbor
> (2) I'd set it up as a wireless client repeater bridge
> (3) Then I'd change the AP SSID & passphrase to something only she knows
> (4) I don't know how to do it but you can also "isolate" her AP from his
> (5) That gives her (and you) full control over her Wi-Fi independent of his
>
> Now that she has reliably and strong Wi-Fi in her house, then you can work
> on the computing device - whether that is a phone, a tablet or laptop.
>
> Teaching her anything (no matter what it is) will be problematic for sure.
> What is she familiar with? Android? iOS? Windows? macOS? Chrome?

I have to wonder how you arrive at the age of 83 with no computer
experience. I'm a little younger than this woman, and we got our first
one when I was 36. First windows computer when I was 49.

--
Cheers, Bev
"Nothing in the universe can withstand the relentless application
of brute force and ignorance." -- Frd, via Dennis (evil)

On 2023-06-05, The Real Bev <bashley101@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> 2) Can you install Skype on an android tablet and where there is wifi,
>>> use it to make phone calls.
>>
>> Yes. Of course. Google Voice will be a better choice than Skype though.
>
> Is it possible to RECEIVE calls at a google voice number?

Yes. There have been many support issues about the device not ringing due
to setup issues (for example, a tablet without a SIM card but on Wi-Fi),
but if the tablet is set up correctly, the tablet will ring (even a PC will
ring) when someone calls the Google Voice number.

> Mine insists
> on forwarding incoming wifi calls to my cell number, which is exactly
> what I DON'T want. Making calls works fine as long as I have a decent
> connection.

I'm aware of that. I'm also aware that often the tablet (without SIM on
Wi-Fi) will only ring if the Google Voice app is open. But as far as I'm
aware, these are only due to setup issues (Google Voice setup stinks).

> If you're going to configure it for her and it's a really old machine,
> consider putting one of the user-friendly linux distros on it. She can
> browse, send email, etc. with no more difficulty than with windows and
> it won't trouble her as much with mysterious messages.

No matter what she gets, she will be confused.
She won't be able to troubleshoot integrating keyboards by herself.

That's why I suggested a big fat laptop.
Because the hardware is already well integrated.

If a big fat laptop isn't acceptable then a big fat tablet will have to do.
I do not recommend ancillary hardware because of the need to troubleshoot.

>>> 3) If she wants, I'll get her one of those bluetooth keyboards I just
>>> learned about. Or should I assume any normal person would rather type
>>> on the keyboard than on the virtual tablet keyboard?
>>
>> An older person has problems all around with any keyboard other than the
>> full sized kind. Which is why I suggest a larger laptop if she'll take it.
>
> I would never choose a virtual keyboard over a real one, and I would
> never choose ANY real keyboard over an IBM Model M.

Agree with you on the virtual keyboard.

But also there's a problem of troubleshooting a keyboard when it inevitably
stops working. The fewer ancillary pieces of hardware, the better for her.

>>> So she won't have to pay
>>> for internet. (I'm not generally in favor of this sort of thing,
>
> Whyever not? The neighbor can do whatever he wants with his connection.

The best solution, I think, is to plug in a router that can receive the
signal from the neighbor at something no worse than about 60 dBm or so.

That router will repeat the signal for her at something like 30 dBm or so.
She should have no problem connecting to a very strong signal like that.

All it takes is almost any old router and dd-wrt or equivalent firmware.
She doesn't need the latest in AC technology. An old G or N router is fine.

>> Teaching her anything (no matter what it is) will be problematic for sure.
>> What is she familiar with? Android? iOS? Windows? macOS? Chrome?
>
> I have to wonder how you arrive at the age of 83 with no computer
> experience. I'm a little younger than this woman, and we got our first
> one when I was 36. First windows computer when I was 49.

She's probably experienced with something. Windows? iOS? Android? macOS?

Am 05.06.23 um 02:31 schrieb Incubus:
> On 2023-06-04, micky <NONONOmisc07@fmguy.com> wrote:
>> I have a an 83-year old friend with no computer who wants something but
>> isn't sure what she wants. I brought her a laptop and she didn't like
>> that.
>
> If she has no computer, she's already going to be difficult to help.
>
>>
>> Now she's talking about a smart phone, but mostly to use the web, not
>> make phone calls.
>
> As you are aware, the web on any phone, even a phablet, is too small for
> older people whose eyesight isn't what it used to be a 60 years prior.

People in this age bracket usually are not compatible with tactile
devices in case they never used it before.

If this lady cannot cope with a computer/laptop it is not very clever to
buy her an even more difficult device.

--
Gutta cavat lapidem (Ovid)

Am 05.06.23 um 05:41 schrieb The Real Bev:
> I HATE using my phone for browsing. That's what real computers with 27"
> monitors are for. We put mine together in 2011 and I'm still happy with
> it. If her eyes are no better than mine she'll hate the phone just as
> much as I do.

+1

--
Gutta cavat lapidem (Ovid)

On 2023-06-04 17:43, micky wrote:
> I have a an 83-year old friend with no computer who wants something but
> isn't sure what she wants. I brought her a laptop and she didn't like
> that.
>
> Now she's talking about a smart phone, but mostly to use the web, not
> make phone calls.
>
> I was thinking an Android tablet might suit her more, mostly becasue the
> screen is bigger, but some questions:

If you have a spare one, have her try it and see.

> 2) Can you install Skype on an android tablet and where there is wifi,
> use it to make phone calls.

Sure. Or video calls.

> Only occsionally. Most of her talking will
> still be from her landline at home, and she doesn't even go out much,
> only to an occasional doctor. She's the widow of a good friend, and
> I've already given her a couple thousand in cash, and I feel like
> treating her now like I treat myself, trying to find a used one at an
> upcoming hamfest, or on Ebay. But if it's old, or new and cheap, will
> it have a microphone and a speaker?

Sure, any "modern" tablet should be prepared for video calls, so camera,
mic and speaker are standard. Some have also a SIM card slot.

> 3) If she wants, I'll get her one of those bluetooth keyboards I just
> learned about. Or should I assume any normal person would rather type
> on the keyboard than on the virtual tablet keyboard?

It depends what she is used to. Try.

There are some tablets that come with a keyboard.

--
Cheers, Carlos.

On Sun, 4 Jun 2023 20:41:44 -0700, The Real Bev <bashley101@gmail.com>
wrote:

>On 6/4/23 5:31 PM, Incubus wrote:
>> On 2023-06-04, micky <NONONOmisc07@fmguy.com> wrote:
>>> I have a an 83-year old friend with no computer who wants something but
>>> isn't sure what she wants. I brought her a laptop and she didn't like
>>> that.
>>
>> If she has no computer, she's already going to be difficult to help.

I agree. Starting with any kind of computer--desktop, laptop, tablet,
smart phone, etc.--is going to be an enormous burden for almost anyone
that age. My advice to Mickey is that he should dissuade her from
wanting any kind of computer. She's likely to be unable to learn how
to use it, and it will end up just being a waste of money.

>>> Now she's talking about a smart phone, but mostly to use the web, not
>>> make phone calls.
>
>I HATE using my phone for browsing. That's what real computers with 27"
>monitors are for. We put mine together in 2011 and I'm still happy with
>it. If her eyes are no better than mine she'll hate the phone just as
>much as I do.

My real computer has a 34" monitor. It was relatively inexpensive
($299), and not a great one, but it's fine for my uses, and I love
its size.

I also hate using my phone for browsing. I do it occasionally, mostly
when I'm reading in bed and want to look up something I just read.
It's awkward and clumsy and my typing skills on the tiny keyboard are
terrible, but it's a lot easier than getting up and going into the
other room.

>I have to wonder how you arrive at the age of 83 with no computer
>experience.

She was around 45 when the first PCs became common. I think that it
was fairly rare for someone that age to start with technology that's
new to her.

> I'm a little younger than this woman, and we got our first
>one when I was 36. First windows computer when I was 49.

I'm a little older (85) and I got my first PC when I was 50. Despite
my age, I had no problem with the technology, since I had worked for
years as a programmer and manager of various computer departments.

On 6/5/23 8:43 AM, Ken Blake wrote:
> On Sun, 4 Jun 2023 20:41:44 -0700, The Real Bev <bashley101@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>>On 6/4/23 5:31 PM, Incubus wrote:
>>> On 2023-06-04, micky <NONONOmisc07@fmguy.com> wrote:
>>>> I have a an 83-year old friend with no computer who wants something but
>>>> isn't sure what she wants. I brought her a laptop and she didn't like
>>>> that.
>>>
>>> If she has no computer, she's already going to be difficult to help.
>
> I agree. Starting with any kind of computer--desktop, laptop, tablet,
> smart phone, etc.--is going to be an enormous burden for almost anyone
> that age. My advice to Mickey is that he should dissuade her from
> wanting any kind of computer. She's likely to be unable to learn how
> to use it, and it will end up just being a waste of money.

Hubby's 96-YO aunt (computer-unfamiliar) is pretty damn sharp, but she
couldn't figure out how to use the reader we sent her -- filled with
books by her favorite authors. We also sent her a simless flip-phone so
she would at least be able to call 911 if necessary, but I don't think
she's ever needed to use it.

A friend my age did computer support for his company for the last 10
years before he retired; since then he refuses to have anything to do
with computers. That's even harder to understand.

>>>> Now she's talking about a smart phone, but mostly to use the web, not
>>>> make phone calls.
>>
>>I HATE using my phone for browsing. That's what real computers with 27"
>>monitors are for. We put mine together in 2011 and I'm still happy with
>>it. If her eyes are no better than mine she'll hate the phone just as
>>much as I do.
>
> My real computer has a 34" monitor. It was relatively inexpensive
> ($299), and not a great one, but it's fine for my uses, and I love
> its size.

Son uses a 45" TV with lots of 'windows' open. He keeps trying to
convince me to get one like it, but I don't have room for something any
bigger and I don't want to keep swiveling my head around.

> I also hate using my phone for browsing. I do it occasionally, mostly
> when I'm reading in bed and want to look up something I just read.
> It's awkward and clumsy and my typing skills on the tiny keyboard are
> terrible, but it's a lot easier than getting up and going into the
> other room.

My computer and phone both go off when I go to bed. Last half hour
involves my Nook reader.

>>I have to wonder how you arrive at the age of 83 with no computer
>>experience.
>
> She was around 45 when the first PCs became common. I think that it
> was fairly rare for someone that age to start with technology that's
> new to her.

Ageist pig! I started skiing when I was 45! Still, if tech hasn't been
a part of your life it's understandable.

>> I'm a little younger than this woman, and we got our first
>>one when I was 36. First windows computer when I was 49.
>
> I'm a little older (85) and I got my first PC when I was 50. Despite
> my age, I had no problem with the technology, since I had worked for
> years as a programmer and manager of various computer departments.

A co-worker used a Wang word processor in 1977 and gave me a
demonstration. I would have killed for such a thing. Just the ability
to cut and paste was worth the price of admission!

--
Cheers, Bev
"When your enemies are making mistakes, don't interrupt them."
-- from the film 'Moneyball'

In comp.mobile.android, on Sun, 04 Jun 2023 11:43:18 -0400, micky
<NONONOmisc07@fmguy.com> wrote:

>I have a an 83-year old friend with no computer who wants something but
>isn't sure what she wants. I brought her a laptop and she didn't like
>that.

Thank you for all the info about tablets and keyboards which you gave me
in this thread. It is definitely useful, for my friend and for me.

She still doesn't want a laptop, but I called today to get more info.

Turns out a friend gave her his old smartphone for her birthday in
March. She had to hunt for it but she found it and she's charging it
and I'll probably go over tomorrow and connect it to her n'bor's wifi.

She does plan to write, not just read, so i don't have time before
tomorrow but I will get her a bluetooth keyboard. Then later if the
phone is too small for her, I'll get her a tablet, that can work with
the same keyboard. If she doesn't like anything, like she ddidn't like
the laptop**, she'll probably give the keyboard back and then I won't
need to buy one.

She has macular degeneration but only in one eye and can still read the
newspaper without glasses, so the phone is big enought to read, but that
doesn't mean bigger isn't better.

**The laptop might have taken up too much space. Her house is not big
and it's full of her stuff. It was built in 1875. In the basement
there are places where you can see the stone foundation, not using any
mortar or anything. It's in Dickeybille, Maryland, originally a mill
town. Now it's pretty expensive and all her neighbors have a lot more
money than she does. But many of them are nice to her and she sits on
the porch all summer and talks with them when they walk by, including
children and their nannies. She used to drive but she stopped.

No, no experience with any computer, although she has seen people swipe
on their phones.

>
>Now she's talking about a smart phone, but mostly to use the web, not
>make phone calls.
>
>I was thinking an Android tablet might suit her more, mostly becasue the
>screen is bigger, but some questions:
>
>1) Can you install Uber and Lyft on a tablet and if there is wifi where
>you are get a taxi with them?
>
>2) Can you install Skype on an android tablet and where there is wifi,
>use it to make phone calls. Only occsionally. Most of her talking will
>still be from her landline at home, and she doesn't even go out much,
>only to an occasional doctor. She's the widow of a good friend, and
>I've already given her a couple thousand in cash, and I feel like
>treating her now like I treat myself, trying to find a used one at an
>upcoming hamfest, or on Ebay. But if it's old, or new and cheap, will
>it have a microphone and a speaker?
>
>3) If she wants, I'll get her one of those bluetooth keyboards I just
>learned about. Or should I assume any normal person would rather type
>on the keyboard than on the virtual tablet keyboard?
>
>
>Her next door, attached neighbor said she can use his wifi and we did
>for about 10 minutes when she had the laptop. It worked fine. I'm
>planning to check parts of her house farther from his to see if there is
>a signal there too, but I think there will be. So she won't have to pay
>for internet. (I'm not generally in favor of this sort of thing, but I
>suspect she'll use the web maybe two hours a week, and even if there's a
>discount price for old or poor people, it's still a lot for 8 hours a
>month, and even that only until she loses interest.)

In comp.mobile.android, on Sun, 4 Jun 2023 20:41:44 -0700, The Real Bev
<bashley101@gmail.com> wrote:

>
>>> So she won't have to pay
>>> for internet. (I'm not generally in favor of this sort of thing,
>
>Whyever not? The neighbor can do whatever he wants with his connection.

I've assumed it's part of the contract with the internet provider that
one won't voluntarily share with another household. But maybe not.
Does anyone know? The T&C are too long and I haven't read them.

To others:
I'm not worried about my friend's competence. She might not be as quick
as I usually am, but I did this stuff for a living. She'll be fine.

I can't discourage her from wanting one. She already does.

She may well not ever want to make a phone call, but I wanted to plan
ahead just in case. I presume now when she's away from home and needs
to call for a ride back that she uses her host's phone. That's what
people always used to do! And she can still do it. The phone or laptop
is mostly for recreation when she's home.

The signal from next door was fine when I was there. If it's not good
enough in the next room, I'll look into a repeater. This is what I
found so far, "Some routers have repeater functionality built in, while
others need customer firmware. Find out from your router's manual to see
if it's possible to use a second wireless router to repeat the wi-fi
signal or use it as a bridge." I got optical FIOS a few years ago and
it came with its own router, but I don't remember my old router having
repeater capability. Let's hope she doens't need it.

I will probably go over tormorrow and if we're lucky, her neighbor won't
have chnaged his wifi password since a year ago. If he has, we'll have
to wait because he and his wife left today for 2 weeks in Belgium and
France. Two more weeks won't make much difference to my friend.

While we were on the phone, he came over and brought her some flowers.

I'll let you know what happens.

Note that many Android tablets that have support for LTE data can be
used as a mobile phone, complete with a phone number, i.e.
<https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1666477-REG/hyundai_ht8la1rbkna01_hytab_plus_allwiner_a133.html>;
you're not limited to Google Voice or other VOIP solutions. This is not
possible on cellular iPads.

--
“If you are not an expert on a subject, then your opinions about it
really do matter less than the opinions of experts. It's not
indoctrination nor elitism. It's just that you don't know as much as
they do about the subject.”—Tin Foil Awards

On 2023-06-06, sms <scharf.steven@geemail.com> wrote:
> Note that many Android tablets that have support for LTE data can be
> used as a mobile phone, complete with a phone number, i.e.
> <https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1666477-REG/hyundai_ht8la1rbkna01_hytab_plus_allwiner_a133.html>;
> you're not limited to Google Voice or other VOIP solutions. This is not
> possible on cellular iPads.

A SIM slot isn't expensive to add and it makes the tablet more useful.
Are you sure there isn't a Wi-Fi iPad (maybe new ones?) with a SIM slot?
Maybe it's hidden from view as an eSIM nowadays?

On 6/5/2023 8:39 PM, Incubus wrote:
> On 2023-06-06, sms <scharf.steven@geemail.com> wrote:
>> Note that many Android tablets that have support for LTE data can be
>> used as a mobile phone, complete with a phone number, i.e.
>> <https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1666477-REG/hyundai_ht8la1rbkna01_hytab_plus_allwiner_a133.html>; you're not limited to Google Voice or other VOIP solutions. This is not possible on cellular iPads.
>
> A SIM slot isn't expensive to add and it makes the tablet more useful.
> Are you sure there isn't a Wi-Fi iPad (maybe new ones?) with a SIM slot?
> Maybe it's hidden from view as an eSIM nowadays?

Lots of iPads with SIM slots but the can't be used as phones, the SIM is
only for data.

Unless the service is a VOIP service like the old FreedomPop or the old
Unreal Mobile, then you're limited to services like Google Voice on the
cellular iPads. This also means that services like WhatsApp and WeChat
are limited, and 2FA via SMS will often not work since many entities
won't send 2FA to a VOIP number.

You can see the rationale for this approach. An iPad Mini is not that
much larger than an iPhone Pro Max:
iPad Mini: 131.5 x 64.2 x 7.4 mm
iPhone 14 Pro Max: 160.7 x , 77.6mm x 7.85mm

Apple wants its customers to buy both an iPhone and an iPad. Just as the
reason that there have not been any touch-screen Macs is because they
don't want to cannibalize iPad sales.

--
“If you are not an expert on a subject, then your opinions about it
really do matter less than the opinions of experts. It's not
indoctrination nor elitism. It's just that you don't know as much as
they do about the subject.”—Tin Foil Awards

On 6/4/23 9:17 PM, Incubus wrote:
> On 2023-06-05, The Real Bev <bashley101@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> 2) Can you install Skype on an android tablet and where there is wifi,
>>>> use it to make phone calls.
>>>
>>> Yes. Of course. Google Voice will be a better choice than Skype though.
>>
>> Is it possible to RECEIVE calls at a google voice number?
>
> Yes. There have been many support issues about the device not ringing due
> to setup issues (for example, a tablet without a SIM card but on Wi-Fi),
> but if the tablet is set up correctly, the tablet will ring (even a PC will
> ring) when someone calls the Google Voice number.
>
>> Mine insists
>> on forwarding incoming wifi calls to my cell number, which is exactly
>> what I DON'T want. Making calls works fine as long as I have a decent
>> connection.
>
> I'm aware of that. I'm also aware that often the tablet (without SIM on
> Wi-Fi) will only ring if the Google Voice app is open. But as far as I'm
> aware, these are only due to setup issues (Google Voice setup stinks).

No shit. So does their 'help' function.

I just spent an hour flailing around with the settings. Removed the
'forward to' settings. Changed the 'answering message' to what I had
recorded. Asked for the banner notification. A couple of other things
that I forget -- does anybody write down everything they do when they're
just trying near-random things?. Ultimately I got it to work. The
out-of-the-box default should be ANSWER THE CALL YES/NO with everything
else being an option.

Apparently the default is 'forward calls to the cell number', which is
exactly wrong; I would never have chosen that. Why would you have a
free google voice number if you wanted calls forwarded to the number
that you pay for?

--
Cheers, Bev
Always carry a length of fiber-optic cable in your pocket. Should
you be shipwrecked and find yourself stranded on a desert island,
bury the cable in the sand. A few hours later, a guy driving a
backhoe will be along to dig it up. Ask him to rescue you.

In article <u5no68$prbv$1@dont-email.me>, sms
<scharf.steven@geemail.com> wrote:

> Apple wants its customers to buy both an iPhone and an iPad.

they'd like it if people bought one of everything, as would every
company. nothing unusual about that.

> Just as the
> reason that there have not been any touch-screen Macs is because they
> don't want to cannibalize iPad sales.

nope, it's because mac os is not designed for touch, and there is very
little demand for such a product. windows laptops with touch have
failed in the marketplace.

what is actually happening is they're adding mac os features to ipads
and marketing them as laptop alternatives, which to use your words, is
cannibalizing mac sales, the very opposite of your claim.

On 2023-06-06, sms <scharf.steven@geemail.com> wrote:
> Lots of iPads with SIM slots but the can't be used as phones, the SIM is
> only for data.

Thanks for explaining that the SIM clot in iPads limited to only data.

>
> Unless the service is a VOIP service like the old FreedomPop or the old
> Unreal Mobile, then you're limited to services like Google Voice on the
> cellular iPads. This also means that services like WhatsApp and WeChat
> are limited, and 2FA via SMS will often not work since many entities
> won't send 2FA to a VOIP number.

How do 2FA sites even know that a Google Voice number is a VOIP number?

>
> You can see the rationale for this approach. An iPad Mini is not that
> much larger than an iPhone Pro Max:
> iPad Mini: 131.5 x 64.2 x 7.4 mm
> iPhone 14 Pro Max: 160.7 x , 77.6mm x 7.85mm

Apple never even wanted to make a large iPhone until they were forced to.

>
> Apple wants its customers to buy both an iPhone and an iPad. Just as the
> reason that there have not been any touch-screen Macs is because they
> don't want to cannibalize iPad sales.

This is the main difference between Apple and Google/Samsung.

If Google tried these scams on its customer, people would by Samsung.
And if Samsung did it, people would just switch to Google phones.

But Apple gets away because they leave iPhone/iPad owners no other choice.
Thank you for helping me understand why Apple doesn't provide SIM choices.

On 6/6/2023 10:12 AM, The Real Bev wrote:

> Apparently the default is 'forward calls to the cell number', which is
> exactly wrong; I would never have chosen that.  Why would you have a
> free google voice number if you wanted calls forwarded to the number
> that you pay for?

Multiple reasons.

1. Being able to switch carriers, without porting your number, and
forwarding your Google Voice number to whatever number you want. There's
also a roundabout way to forward that Google Voice number to foreign
numbers (not free, you pay a per minute rate that is pretty low).

2. Being able to read your SMS on your computer or browser while on Wi-Fi.

3. Receiving calls on multiple cell phones.

Remember, most people are on plans with unlimited minutes, or a
sufficient number of minutes, that they they aren't paying for each call
received. I know that you're still on that 10¢/minute, $10 per year,
grandfathered T-Mobile plan.

--
“If you are not an expert on a subject, then your opinions about it
really do matter less than the opinions of experts. It's not
indoctrination nor elitism. It's just that you don't know as much as
they do about the subject.”—Tin Foil Awards

In article <u5npu0$q83u$1@dont-email.me>, Incubus <u9536612@gmail.com>
wrote:

>
> How do 2FA sites even know that a Google Voice number is a VOIP number?

by the owner of the block.

> Apple never even wanted to make a large iPhone until they were forced to.

that's false

In comp.mobile.android, on Tue, 6 Jun 2023 09:51:20 -0700, sms
<scharf.steven@geemail.com> wrote:

>On 6/5/2023 8:39 PM, Incubus wrote:
>> On 2023-06-06, sms <scharf.steven@geemail.com> wrote:
>>> Note that many Android tablets that have support for LTE data can be
>>> used as a mobile phone, complete with a phone number, i.e.
>>> <https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1666477-REG/hyundai_ht8la1rbkna01_hytab_plus_allwiner_a133.html>; you're not limited to Google Voice or other VOIP solutions. This is not possible on cellular iPads.
>>
>> A SIM slot isn't expensive to add and it makes the tablet more useful.
>> Are you sure there isn't a Wi-Fi iPad (maybe new ones?) with a SIM slot?
>> Maybe it's hidden from view as an eSIM nowadays?
>
>Lots of iPads with SIM slots but the can't be used as phones, the SIM is
>only for data.
>
>Unless the service is a VOIP service like the old FreedomPop or the old

Don't deal with Freedom Pop. They either thieves or one step away from
thieves, but they are clever about how they do it.

micky <NONONOmisc07@fmguy.com> wrote:
> I have a an 83-year old friend with no computer who wants something but
> isn't sure what she wants. I brought her a laptop and she didn't like
> that.
>
> Now she's talking about a smart phone, but mostly to use the web, not
> make phone calls.
>
> I was thinking an Android tablet might suit her more, mostly becasue the
> screen is bigger, but some questions:
>
> 1) Can you install Uber and Lyft on a tablet and if there is wifi where
> you are get a taxi with them?
>
> 2) Can you install Skype on an android tablet and where there is wifi,
> use it to make phone calls. Only occsionally. Most of her talking will
> still be from her landline at home, and she doesn't even go out much,
> only to an occasional doctor. She's the widow of a good friend, and
> I've already given her a couple thousand in cash, and I feel like
> treating her now like I treat myself, trying to find a used one at an
> upcoming hamfest, or on Ebay. But if it's old, or new and cheap, will
> it have a microphone and a speaker?
>
> 3) If she wants, I'll get her one of those bluetooth keyboards I just
> learned about. Or should I assume any normal person would rather type
> on the keyboard than on the virtual tablet keyboard?

After reading your post and all the responses.

Having somewhat close experience with people in that age bracket with
similar non-experience:

IF - very big if - she really wants a 'computing device', get her a
tablet with an 'integrated' keyboard, i.e. with a cover which houses the
tablet and the keyboard and which can be used as a display stand.

Alternatively, get her a Chromebook. Others might want to give advice
on this (as I don't have/use one).

IF - another big if - she wants/needs to make phone calls while out of
the house, get her a 'dumb'/'feature' phone, not a smartphone.

> Her next door, attached neighbor said she can use his wifi and we did
> for about 10 minutes when she had the laptop. It worked fine. I'm
> planning to check parts of her house farther from his to see if there is
> a signal there too, but I think there will be. So she won't have to pay
> for internet. (I'm not generally in favor of this sort of thing, but I
> suspect she'll use the web maybe two hours a week, and even if there's a
> discount price for old or poor people, it's still a lot for 8 hours a
> month, and even that only until she loses interest.)

Note that using Uber on a tablet, via Wi-Fi is dicey because of 2FA
which I found didn't work on Uber using a VOIP number. Lyft did work
with my Google Voice number.

<https://medium.com/deductingtherightway/solved-using-uber-with-a-voip-phone-number-f0a8b8f0f36f>

In comp.mobile.android, on Tue, 6 Jun 2023 16:49:07 -0700, sms
<scharf.steven@geemail.com> wrote:

>Note that using Uber on a tablet, via Wi-Fi is dicey because of 2FA
>which I found didn't work on Uber using a VOIP number.

Good to know, for my sake Wrt her, I saw her today. She doesn't play
to use Uber (probably because she doesn't know it exists!) but usually
has an arrangement in advance to be picked up when she's done. Doesn't
even have to use the phone whereever she is (which is what people used
to do, and can still do.)

> Lyft did work
>with my Google Voice number.
>
><https://medium.com/deductingtherightway/solved-using-uber-with-a-voip-phone-number-f0a8b8f0f36f>
>

At some point on date%, micky wrote:

> She does plan to write, not just read, so i don't have time before
> tomorrow but I will get her a bluetooth keyboard.

My advice is make sure she knows how to use voice to text on that phone.

Practice... practice... practice...
https://support.google.com/gboard/answer/2781851

Then have her practice some more.
> She has macular degeneration but only in one eye and can still read the
> newspaper without glasses, so the phone is big enought to read, but that
> doesn't mean bigger isn't better.

The problem with MD is everything in the center is distorted so my advice
here is to make sure she knows how to use text to voice on that phone!

Practice... practice... practice...
https://support.google.com/accessibility/android/answer/6006983

Then have her practice some more.

In comp.mobile.android, on Wed, 7 Jun 2023 06:14:46 +0300, Falafel Balls
<YoussefGamalNOSPAM@etisalat.eg> wrote:

>At some point on date%, micky wrote:
>
>> She does plan to write, not just read, so i don't have time before
>> tomorrow but I will get her a bluetooth keyboard.
>
>My advice is make sure she knows how to use voice to text on that phone.

Good point. I should learn to do that too.

>Practice... practice... practice...
>https://support.google.com/gboard/answer/2781851

Looks easier than I remembered. Maybe it was good for me to have waited
a couple years.
>
>Then have her practice some more.
>
>> She has macular degeneration but only in one eye and can still read the
>> newspaper without glasses, so the phone is big enought to read, but that
>> doesn't mean bigger isn't better.
>
>The problem with MD is everything in the center is distorted so my advice
>here is to make sure she knows how to use text to voice on that phone!

I heard that somewhere. No, wait, that was the opposite.

>Practice... practice... practice...
>https://support.google.com/accessibility/android/answer/6006983
>
>Then have her practice some more.

I'll try.