A NextDoor post. Earlier poster wants to go take back his phone, stolen
from his car at night. Is she right? And if she's right, how does
this happen?

For all you know, the phone was sold to an unwitting person who had no
idea it was stolen. While you could show up at the place where it is
supposedly pinging, do know that they frequently ping at the wrong site.

While I am in my home my phone regularly sends alerts to my watch saying
I have “left it behind” and gives miscellaneous addresses that are
nearby. (Whereas it is actually with me at home.)

One day it pinged that it was about four miles away and I freaked out,
imagining s thief had come into my home and grabbed my bag while the
door had been unlocked. I then drove to that place imagining I would
knock on the door. Then called the police to explain the situation, yet
couldn’t bring myself to confront the residents of that address, knowing
I was making too many presumptions. For all I knew someone could be hurt
in the process—a risk I wasn’t willing to instigate.

As it turned out, despite pinging at that address for nearly 40 minutes,
I drove back home and found my phone was in my kitchen, untouched.

My suggestion? Deactivate the phone. Claim insurance. Move on.

micky <NONONOmisc07@fmguy.com> wrote:

> A NextDoor post. Earlier poster wants to go take back his phone, stolen
> from his car at night. Is she right? And if she's right, how does
> this happen?

How can anyone return a phone that is not in their possession? First it
is "his", then it is "she". Sounding more like a made up story by you.

Is "take back" the physical retrieval of the phone, remote control of
the phone, or locking up the phone to prevent its misuse and data loss
until you recover the phone?

> For all you know, the phone was sold to an unwitting person who had no
> idea it was stolen. While you could show up at the place where it is
> supposedly pinging, do know that they frequently ping at the wrong
> site.
>
> While I am in my home my phone regularly sends alerts to my watch saying
> I have “left it behind” and gives miscellaneous addresses that are
> nearby. (Whereas it is actually with me at home.)

As yet, you have not described what geolocation service you are using,
how geolocation accuracy is configured on your phone, if your phone gets
GPS signals while inside your home and wherever in your home it is (by a
window on first floor, or higher, in a basement, etc, if the roof has
tar or metal shingles, etc).

> One day it pinged that it was about four miles away and I freaked out,
> imagining s thief had come into my home and grabbed my bag while the
> door had been unlocked. I then drove to that place imagining I would
> knock on the door. Then called the police to explain the situation, yet
> couldn’t bring myself to confront the residents of that address, knowing
> I was making too many presumptions. For all I knew someone could be hurt
> in the process—a risk I wasn’t willing to instigate.
>
> As it turned out, despite pinging at that address for nearly 40 minutes,
> I drove back home and found my phone was in my kitchen, untouched.

And now it's you whose phone was reported elsewhere.

> My suggestion? Deactivate the phone. Claim insurance. Move on.

So, just what was alerting you where was the phone? Likely it needs
geolocating services enabled on the phone. Did you disable GPS? Did
you configure the phone for accurate geolocation (uses more than GPS)?
What if your home blocks the GPS signal, so other methods are needed,
like using cell towers. Where are those?

If you're using Google or Samsung services to locate a missing/stolen
phone, those services also let you lockup or erase the phone, so the
thief cannot use it. Besides taking the loss (unless you're the type
that gets phone insurance, and likes to deal with the insurer to make a
claim), yeah, move on, but that doesn't mean you need to leave workable
the stolen phone.

https://support.google.com/accounts/answer/6160491?hl=en

https://www.samsung.com/in/support/mobile-devices/find-my-mobile-use-to-locate-lock-or-wipe-galaxy-device/

So, you configure your phones to /not/ screen lock when unused for a few
minutes? Or you use a password or other auth method that can be easily
guessed in a few minutes?

On Tue, 06 Jun 2023 20:55:59 -0400, micky wrote:
> A NextDoor post. Earlier poster wants to go take back his phone, stolen
> from his car at night. Is she right? And if she's right, how does
> this happen?

As frequently as is happening with neanderthals shooting innocent
people through the front door, I WOULD ADVISE *NOT* TO ATTEMPT THIS!

In comp.mobile.android, on Tue, 6 Jun 2023 20:38:15 -0500, VanguardLH
<V@nguard.LH> wrote:

>micky <NONONOmisc07@fmguy.com> wrote:
>
>> A NextDoor post. Earlier poster wants to go take back his phone, stolen
>> from his car at night. Is she right? And if she's right, how does
>> this happen?
>
>How can anyone return a phone that is not in their possession? First it
>is "his", then it is "she". Sounding more like a made up story by you.

Don't be so suspicious. The "Earlier poster" was male, the one who said
what follows below was female. None of this was the point of my
question.
>
>Is "take back" the physical retrieval of the phone, remote control of
>the phone, or locking up the phone to prevent its misuse and data loss
>until you recover the phone?

It doesn't matter. The question is, Do phones (stolen phones?) send
pings that say where they are? (I'm sure the answer is Yes) and when
they do, do they sometimes give the wrong location. As is described
below. And if they give the wrong location, how do they manage to get
it wrong?

>> For all you know, the phone was sold to an unwitting person who had no
>> idea it was stolen. While you could show up at the place where it is
>> supposedly pinging, do know that they frequently ping at the wrong
>> site.
>>
>> While I am in my home my phone regularly sends alerts to my watch saying
>> I have “left it behind” and gives miscellaneous addresses that are
>> nearby. (Whereas it is actually with me at home.)
>
>As yet, you have not described what geolocation service you are using,

She didn't say. Consider all the geolocations services there are. Do
any behave as she has described, and how is that possible that the
location sent could be, for example, 4 miles off?

>how geolocation accuracy is configured on your phone, if your phone gets
>GPS signals while inside your home and wherever in your home it is (by a
>window on first floor, or higher, in a basement, etc, if the roof has
>tar or metal shingles, etc).

I don't see how these things could cause a "ping" to say the phone was 4
miles away, but if it could, that's what I'm interested in knowing more
about. How does this happen? What about the roof, windows, could
generate a 4-mile error?
>
>> One day it pinged that it was about four miles away and I freaked out,
>> imagining s thief had come into my home and grabbed my bag while the
>> door had been unlocked. I then drove to that place imagining I would
>> knock on the door. Then called the police to explain the situation, yet
>> couldn’t bring myself to confront the residents of that address, knowing
>> I was making too many presumptions. For all I knew someone could be hurt
>> in the process—a risk I wasn’t willing to instigate.
>>
>> As it turned out, despite pinging at that address for nearly 40 minutes,
>> I drove back home and found my phone was in my kitchen, untouched.
>
>And now it's you whose phone was reported elsewhere.

These are all the words of the poster. She drove 4 miles away and then
came back home.
>
>> My suggestion? Deactivate the phone. Claim insurance. Move on.
>
>So, just what was alerting you where was the phone? Likely it needs
>geolocating services enabled on the phone. Did you disable GPS?

How would I know if she didn't say? Consider a phone with and without
disabled GPS. Which one, if either, would cauas a ping to arrive that
gave the wrong location? If it didn't have geolocation enabled, why
would it give any location at all?

>Did
>you configure the phone for accurate geolocation (uses more than GPS)?
>What if your home blocks the GPS signal, so other methods are needed,
>like using cell towers. Where are those?

I didn't configure the phone at all and she didn't say what she'd done.

>If you're using Google or Samsung services to locate a missing/stolen
>phone, those services also let you lockup or erase the phone, so the
>thief cannot use it. Besides taking the loss (unless you're the type
>that gets phone insurance, and likes to deal with the insurer to make a
>claim), yeah, move on, but that doesn't mean you need to leave workable
>the stolen phone.
>
>https://support.google.com/accounts/answer/6160491?hl=en
>
>https://www.samsung.com/in/support/mobile-devices/find-my-mobile-use-to-locate-lock-or-wipe-galaxy-device/
>
>So, you configure your phones to /not/ screen lock when unused for a few
>minutes? Or you use a password or other auth method that can be easily
>guessed in a few minutes?

My guess is the geolocation service or app in the phone uses an Internet
connection to send the location of the phone to the service provider.
Internet access can be by cellular or wifi connects. Well, if the Find
service is polling, that means the phone could move between the
intervals of when the location got reported. Geolocation is polled, not
a constant connection between phone and account providing the service.
I don't know the polling interval, but it's zero when you attempt to
find the device when the phone is using wifi.

https://support.google.com/android/answer/6160491?hl=en
"Some of these functionality uses Google Play services."

https://support.google.com/android/answer/3265955

The Find service is in the Android OS. On my old LG V20 Android 8.0.0
phone, enabling the Find feature is under Android settings -> General ->
Lock screen & security, and where the "Find My Device" option is listed
(can be turned On or Off). Google's Find My Device app is not needed.
It is when you use one phone to find/lock/erase another phone. I only
have 1 phone, so there's no point in installing the app on it. The app
is just a web-centric app (most are) that gives you the same features as
logging into your Google account using a web browser at:

https://www.google.com/android/find/

When I [re]load that web page, my phone reacts by popping up a
notification saying:

Locating device
Find My Device is locating this device

and, when found, shows a new notification saying:

Device located
Find My Device located this device

When I did this test, my phone was connected via wifi to my cable modem,
so it has an always-on Internet connection. I'd have to test away from
home, and when /not/ on a wifi connection (i.e., only cellular
available, and a nearby tower that contracts with my cellular carrier)
to see if there was a lag in the test to see what might be the polling
interval, or if the test doesn't complete until I connect to a tower
when making a cellular phone call.

The Find My Device service only finds the phones under the Google
account under which you login, not the phones assigned to other Google
accounts. Log into the above web site to see where it says is her phone
assuming she has the Find My Device option enabled in the Android OS on
her phone, and hopefully with high-accuracy location enabled which would
work best if she has recent A-GPS data and strong GPS signals (her phone
isn't in a basement or elsehwere the GPS signals would get blocked).
Use an app to see how far away is the cell tower to which she connects,
and what other towers are in the area (that contract with her same
cellular carrier).

GPS is not required to find the location of the phone. Under Android
settings for location, there can be multiple choices. Mine are:

- High accuracy (GPS and networks)
Use GPS, wi-fi, and mobile network to estimate location.

- Battery saving (Networks only)
Use wi-fi and mobile networks to estimate location.

- Device sensors only (GPS only)
Use GPS to pinpoint location.

If you pick the 2nd option, GPS is not used. When the phone connects to
a cell tower, the location of the cell tower is known (the tower reports
its location). The location of the tower is known, not your phone;
however, I suspect more than 1 tower, if reachable, is used to find the
phone, like using 3 towers to triangulate position. However, accuracy
depends on how many towers the phone can reach. With just 1 tower, the
only location that can be reported is the tower, not the phone. I don't
what the location function on the phone is going to do with just 2
towers.

https://www.safetrax.in/how-gps-cell-tower-and-wi-fi-triangulation-help-in-tracking-location

There are apps that will show your cell data, like to which tower you
are connected along with other towers within reach that also carry your
cell carrier since you cannot connect to different carriers, and towers
carry more than 1 carrier. Your phone connects to your subscribed
carrier on the towers that have that carrier. Very few towers are owned
by carriers. They rent service on a tower. I use (and paid $2.14 for
the Pro version) the Network Cell & Wifi Info app (there is a free Lite
version) which shows my current cell tower connection, nearby towers (in
layered view), and even my wifi connections. I also have the OpenSignal
app (free version w/ads), but haven't used it for a long time. That was
back when I wanted to leave it running to map coverage (signal strength)
when I was moving around, like when driving, since the carrier coverage
maps are highly inaccurate (my carrier's map shows I'm in a high/red
coverage, but that's not true and signal strength is poor since I'm in a
dip in the geography by a major river, and the towers are elevated above
me, and towers don't well transmit in a downward direction).

Even for GPS, 3 satellites are needed for location triangulation. Some
apps will show the satellites, and to which you are connected if the GPS
radio is enabled in your phone (e.g., GPS Status app). GPS also
incorporates helper data (A-GPS data) which can get old, and needs to be
refreshed. GPS Status app will let you reload A-GPS data. I don't
remember seeing a phone including the option to do that.

https://www.diffen.com/difference/A-GPS_vs_GPS

Instead of hunting for satellites by searching for them, A-GPS tells the
phone were are the satellites to look there first. This article notes 3
GPS sats are needed for triangulation, and 4, or more, to also get the
phone's altitude.

Aside: Many, maybe most, cell phone users don't realize the magnometer
in their phones will get out of calibration. Occasionally you have to
rotate your phone in all 3 axes, like a 3d twisted figure eight, and
repeat 3 times (I do it 8 times). Else, you might use a compass app
that points in the wrong direction for north.