22 min home assignment ;-)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oSl3A8tHj6U

Now you understand why disk brakes and Di2 ;-)

Lou

On Saturday, September 11, 2021 at 3:06:18 PM UTC-7, lou.h...@gmail.com wrote:
> 22 min home assignment ;-)
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oSl3A8tHj6U
>
> Now you understand why disk brakes and Di2 ;-)

The Di2 now is semi-wireless. The levers aren't wired and I suppose the intelligence is contained within the battery. Having a single large battery to drive the front and rear derailleur is Shimano's usual genius solution.

On 9/11/2021 6:06 PM, Lou Holtman wrote:
> 22 min home assignment ;-)
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oSl3A8tHj6U
>
> Now you understand why disk brakes and Di2 ;-)

I'm not much into watching random YouTube videos. Care to summarize it?

--
- Frank Krygowski

On Sat, 11 Sep 2021 20:01:11 -0400, Frank Krygowski
<frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:

>On 9/11/2021 6:06 PM, Lou Holtman wrote:
>> 22 min home assignment ;-)
>>
>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oSl3A8tHj6U
>>
>> Now you understand why disk brakes and Di2 ;-)
>
>I'm not much into watching random YouTube videos. Care to summarize it?

It seems to be an advertisement for telling the viewer just how
wonderful the Specialized S-Works Tarmac SL7 bicycles really are.

While viewing it one should remember that George C. Parker sold the
Brooklyn Bridge so many times that they wrote a song about it.
--
Cheers,

John B.

On Saturday, September 11, 2021 at 5:27:31 PM UTC-7, John B. wrote:
> On Sat, 11 Sep 2021 20:01:11 -0400, Frank Krygowski
> <frkr...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>
> >On 9/11/2021 6:06 PM, Lou Holtman wrote:
> >> 22 min home assignment ;-)
> >>
> >> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oSl3A8tHj6U
> >>
> >> Now you understand why disk brakes and Di2 ;-)
> >
> >I'm not much into watching random YouTube videos. Care to summarize it?
> It seems to be an advertisement for telling the viewer just how
> wonderful the Specialized S-Works Tarmac SL7 bicycles really are.
>
> While viewing it one should remember that George C. Parker sold the
> Brooklyn Bridge so many times that they wrote a song about it.

Huh, what does selling something to which the seller holds no title have to do with the S-Works Tarmac SL7?

The video is about setting it up from frame to complete bike and is interesting, particularly the end, using a device I've never seen to set-up saddle height, tilt, fore-aft. Tool selection was interesting as was topping off the discs after the initial fill and checking for air. The FD is incredibly fast. Its weird to watch how fast the shifts are.

-- Jay Beattie.

On Sunday, September 12, 2021 at 2:01:15 AM UTC+2, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> On 9/11/2021 6:06 PM, Lou Holtman wrote:
> > 22 min home assignment ;-)
> >
> > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oSl3A8tHj6U
> >
> > Now you understand why disk brakes and Di2 ;-)
> I'm not much into watching random YouTube videos. Care to summarize it?
>

You asking us to read endless documents about whatever and you are too lazy to watch a 22 minutes youtube video? Some things can better be watched.

Lou

On Sunday, September 12, 2021 at 12:53:43 AM UTC+2, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Saturday, September 11, 2021 at 3:06:18 PM UTC-7, lou.h...@gmail.com wrote:
> > 22 min home assignment ;-)
> >
> > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oSl3A8tHj6U
> >
> > Now you understand why disk brakes and Di2 ;-)
> The Di2 now is semi-wireless. The levers aren't wired and I suppose the intelligence is contained within the battery. Having a single large battery to drive the front and rear derailleur is Shimano's usual genius solution.

Indeed the video shows why.

Lou

I wouldn't be the slightest bit interested in owning a bike like that. It's nothing but wretched excess, making you the slave of Specialized and Shimano.

On Sunday, September 12, 2021 at 9:49:24 AM UTC+2, William Crowell wrote:
> I wouldn't be the slightest bit interested in owning a bike like that. It's nothing but wretched excess, making you the slave of Specialized and Shimano.

Making you a slave of Specialized and Shimano? How is that? This video is about building up that bike. I'm not running to the shop to buy one, but watching a mechanic I always find interesting and often learn something; technique or used tools. Like Jay already mentioned topping off the discs was interesting and also the struggling to get all the cables inside the stem and handlebar.

Lou

"Now you understand why disk brakes and Di2 ;-)"

Sorry, but even after watching the video I'm still not understanding why I should want these things.

I'm a fan of Henry David Thoreau. He believed in living "deliberately" and free from illusion and excess, and he explained how making valuable possessions too large a part of your life derogates from that goal.

On Saturday, September 11, 2021 at 9:10:31 PM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote:
> On Saturday, September 11, 2021 at 5:27:31 PM UTC-7, John B. wrote:
> > On Sat, 11 Sep 2021 20:01:11 -0400, Frank Krygowski
> > <frkr...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> >
> > >On 9/11/2021 6:06 PM, Lou Holtman wrote:
> > >> 22 min home assignment ;-)
> > >>
> > >> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oSl3A8tHj6U
> > >>
> > >> Now you understand why disk brakes and Di2 ;-)
> > >
> > >I'm not much into watching random YouTube videos. Care to summarize it?
> > It seems to be an advertisement for telling the viewer just how
> > wonderful the Specialized S-Works Tarmac SL7 bicycles really are.
> >
> > While viewing it one should remember that George C. Parker sold the
> > Brooklyn Bridge so many times that they wrote a song about it.
> Huh, what does selling something to which the seller holds no title have to do with the S-Works Tarmac SL7?
>
> The video is about setting it up from frame to complete bike and is interesting, particularly the end, using a device I've never seen to set-up saddle height, tilt, fore-aft. Tool selection was interesting as was topping off the discs after the initial fill and checking for air. The FD is incredibly fast. Its weird to watch how fast the shifts are.
Why are you bothering to give that moron the time of day? If he isn't bright enough to see that it was a video about how a professional mechanic builds all of the modern bikes, you can see that he, like Frank, is a throwback.

On Sunday, September 12, 2021 at 4:13:55 AM UTC-7, lou.h...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Sunday, September 12, 2021 at 9:49:24 AM UTC+2, William Crowell wrote:
> > I wouldn't be the slightest bit interested in owning a bike like that. It's nothing but wretched excess, making you the slave of Specialized and Shimano.
> Making you a slave of Specialized and Shimano? How is that? This video is about building up that bike. I'm not running to the shop to buy one, but watching a mechanic I always find interesting and often learn something; technique or used tools. Like Jay already mentioned topping off the discs was interesting and also the struggling to get all the cables inside the stem and handlebar.

I don' like being a slave to internal cabling. I'm a curmudgeon, too, but with an curmudgeon index date (CID) well after 1987. I grumble about all the internally routed cables and the plumbing and electrical work on modern bikes. My son has the S-Works SL6 -- the predecessor of Sagan's bike -- and just paid the in-house mechanic to set it up. Specialized actually employs a mechanic who runs an operation in the warehouse that is like a mini-bike shop with clothing and parts and repairs. Labor rates are nominal. I give my son a hard time for not doing it himself, and he just rolls his eyes.. He is also friends with the guys at a local shop who do work for practically free . . . for everyone. I hear what they charge for some services and kind of wonder how they stay in business.

-- Jay Beattie.

On Sunday, September 12, 2021 at 7:02:22 AM UTC-7, William Crowell wrote:
> "Now you understand why disk brakes and Di2 ;-)"
> Sorry, but even after watching the video I'm still not understanding why I should want these things.
>
> I'm a fan of Henry David Thoreau. He believed in living "deliberately" and free from illusion and excess, and he explained how making valuable possessions too large a part of your life derogates from that goal.
Bill, Thoreau was a ne'r do well that was more famous because of his mention by Ralph Waldo Emerson than his is rather backwards attitudes that were funded by his father. When few people were educated he wrote a book. Whoopy! Today thousands of books are published and most of them are a great deal more educated than someone in the simpler times of the early 1800's.

You don't want a new style, lighter bike with Di2 shifting? Why is it that you couldn't see that wasn't the point at all if you think that excess? Excess of what?

On Sunday, September 12, 2021 at 7:02:22 AM UTC-7, William Crowell wrote:
> "Now you understand why disk brakes and Di2 ;-)"
> Sorry, but even after watching the video I'm still not understanding why I should want these things.

It's not trying to sell you anything.
>
> I'm a fan of Henry David Thoreau. He believed in living "deliberately" and free from illusion and excess, and he explained how making valuable possessions too large a part of your life derogates from that goal.

One can live deliberately with a Specialized S-Works Tarmac SL7. Thoreau would have owned that bike -- borrowed the money from his dad and worked it off in the pencil factory instead of lounging around a pond. Hard work is what makes a man and not living the Bohemian life!

-- Jay Beattie.

"Thoreau would have owned that bike -- borrowed the money from his dad and worked it off in the pencil factory instead of lounging around a pond. Hard work is what makes a man and not living the Bohemian life!"

Your argument is not well taken, counselor; in fact, it makes no sense whatsoever because that's not the man Thoreau was, and that's not what he did.

On Sunday, September 12, 2021 at 7:30:49 AM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote:
> On Sunday, September 12, 2021 at 7:02:22 AM UTC-7, William Crowell wrote:
> > "Now you understand why disk brakes and Di2 ;-)"
> > Sorry, but even after watching the video I'm still not understanding why I should want these things.
> It's not trying to sell you anything.
> >
> > I'm a fan of Henry David Thoreau. He believed in living "deliberately" and free from illusion and excess, and he explained how making valuable possessions too large a part of your life derogates from that goal.
> One can live deliberately with a Specialized S-Works Tarmac SL7. Thoreau would have owned that bike -- borrowed the money from his dad and worked it off in the pencil factory instead of lounging around a pond. Hard work is what makes a man and not living the Bohemian life!
Had Thoreau seized upon the cycling life, he could have lived a full life instead of dying from tuberculosis which was usually brought on by a lack of real physical activity. His idea of tiring work was having to carry the paper spacers for dividing the pencil piles.

Compare this to my friend with whom I did a 30 mile ride yesterday. He is 89 years old and in perfect health for his age. He worked in a supermarket his entire life - each day, every day he was on his feet and it is no different now. He lives in an retirement home now that his wife has died and he helps his daughter with manual labor jobs.

I find it shocking how little people know about the world around them where Russell thinks that people sit on their ass and type into a computer. Between jobs I had many manual labor jobs - maintenance man for the Bay Area Rapid Transit, Telephone installation in skyscrapers, even building racing motorcycles. Thursday while returning from my ride I saw a man loading what appeared to be a new car onto one of those 8 car carriers, I knew what that was about since I've mentioned it here but I stopped and asked him just to make sure. Indeed, since Obama the only way that dealers can sell cars is with no money down and six months until the first payment. So this guy has an entire business repossessing these cars after six months. Do you think that Russell doesn't think this manual labor?

On Sunday, September 12, 2021 at 7:53:29 AM UTC-7, William Crowell wrote:
> "Thoreau would have owned that bike -- borrowed the money from his dad and worked it off in the pencil factory instead of lounging around a pond. Hard work is what makes a man and not living the Bohemian life!"
> Your argument is not well taken, counselor; in fact, it makes no sense whatsoever because that's not the man Thoreau was, and that's not what he did.
Thoreau built his own crappy house on Walden Pond out of wood from someone's chicken coop complete with all of the serious bacteria from all of that chicken crap pasted on the boards. Is it your opinion that could he afford it he wouldn't use new lumber?

Real bicycles had been invented in Germany about the time of Thoreau's life so had he known about them what do you know he would or would not do?

On 9/12/2021 1:48 AM, Lou Holtman wrote:
> On Sunday, September 12, 2021 at 2:01:15 AM UTC+2, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>> On 9/11/2021 6:06 PM, Lou Holtman wrote:
>>> 22 min home assignment ;-)
>>>
>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oSl3A8tHj6U
>>>
>>> Now you understand why disk brakes and Di2 ;-)
>> I'm not much into watching random YouTube videos. Care to summarize it?
>>
>
> You asking us to read endless documents about whatever...

Citation, please?

> and you are too lazy to watch a 22 minutes youtube video? Some things can better be watched.

I'm sure that if I asked you to read something, I gave an explanation of
the topic. Were you "too lazy" to do that?

I've skimmed through parts of that video. I don't see its relevance.

--
- Frank Krygowski

On 9/11/2021 7:01 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> On 9/11/2021 6:06 PM, Lou Holtman wrote:
>> 22 min home assignment ;-)
>>
>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oSl3A8tHj6U
>>
>> Now you understand why disk brakes and Di2 ;-)
>
> I'm not much into watching random YouTube videos. Care to
> summarize it?
>
>

22 minutes of modern race bile build with modern equipment.

--
Andrew Muzi
<www.yellowjersey.org/>
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On 9/12/2021 2:49 AM, William Crowell wrote:
> I wouldn't be the slightest bit interested in owning a bike like that. It's nothing but wretched excess, making you the slave of Specialized and Shimano.
>

Choice is good. Option to choose is more valuable than any
given choice.

--
Andrew Muzi
<www.yellowjersey.org/>
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On Sunday, September 12, 2021 at 8:38:45 AM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
> On 9/11/2021 7:01 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> > On 9/11/2021 6:06 PM, Lou Holtman wrote:
> >> 22 min home assignment ;-)
> >>
> >> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oSl3A8tHj6U
> >>
> >> Now you understand why disk brakes and Di2 ;-)
> >
> > I'm not much into watching random YouTube videos. Care to
> > summarize it?
> >
> >
> 22 minutes of modern race bile build with modern equipment.

Andrew, that is irrelevant to anyone who stopped advancing in 1987.

On Sunday, September 12, 2021 at 8:50:26 AM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
> On 9/12/2021 2:49 AM, William Crowell wrote:
> > I wouldn't be the slightest bit interested in owning a bike like that. It's nothing but wretched excess, making you the slave of Specialized and Shimano.
> >
> Choice is good. Option to choose is more valuable than any
> given choice.

Bill is surely welcome to his choice but why should I have to read about it? At least I have reasons for why I have my choices. I actually tried them all and I didn't make my opinion from uninformed guesses at prices and equipment.

On 9/12/2021 1:02 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
> On Sunday, September 12, 2021 at 8:50:26 AM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
>> On 9/12/2021 2:49 AM, William Crowell wrote:
>>> I wouldn't be the slightest bit interested in owning a bike like that. It's nothing but wretched excess, making you the slave of Specialized and Shimano.
>>>
>> Choice is good. Option to choose is more valuable than any
>> given choice.
>
> Bill is surely welcome to his choice but why should I have to read about it? At least I have reasons for why I have my choices. I actually tried them all and I didn't make my opinion from uninformed guesses at prices and equipment.

You're welcome to your choices and welcome to discuss them here. That's
what this group is supposed to be about.

Personally, I happen to prefer evaluations based on physics and related
mathematics. Vague claims like "This bike really tracks through the
corners" or "I can feel the stiffness in this bike's rear end" are
unconvincing to me.

But please keep in mind that you and I do generally agree on some
points. For example, you've said that you think eight cogs was plenty,
you've said that saving a pound or two makes negligible difference. On
those, we certainly agree.

--
- Frank Krygowski

On Sunday, September 12, 2021 at 10:38:34 AM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> On 9/12/2021 1:02 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
> > On Sunday, September 12, 2021 at 8:50:26 AM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
> >> On 9/12/2021 2:49 AM, William Crowell wrote:
> >>> I wouldn't be the slightest bit interested in owning a bike like that. It's nothing but wretched excess, making you the slave of Specialized and Shimano.
> >>>
> >> Choice is good. Option to choose is more valuable than any
> >> given choice.
> >
> > Bill is surely welcome to his choice but why should I have to read about it? At least I have reasons for why I have my choices. I actually tried them all and I didn't make my opinion from uninformed guesses at prices and equipment.
> You're welcome to your choices and welcome to discuss them here. That's
> what this group is supposed to be about.
>
> Personally, I happen to prefer evaluations based on physics and related
> mathematics. Vague claims like "This bike really tracks through the
> corners" or "I can feel the stiffness in this bike's rear end" are
> unconvincing to me.
>
> But please keep in mind that you and I do generally agree on some
> points. For example, you've said that you think eight cogs was plenty,
> you've said that saving a pound or two makes negligible difference. On
> those, we certainly agree.

It makes absolutely no difference if an 8 or 9 speed drive train is "good enough" if you cannot buy them. Going out of your way to purchase used or low grade components made by third grade manufacturers is of no benefit to anyone.

The components made by the three top manufacturers are vastly superior to the stuff sold by even people like Chris King. For that matter even SRAM is playing catch-up.

On Sun, 12 Sep 2021 07:10:47 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
<cyclintom@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Saturday, September 11, 2021 at 9:10:31 PM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote:
>> On Saturday, September 11, 2021 at 5:27:31 PM UTC-7, John B. wrote:
>> > On Sat, 11 Sep 2021 20:01:11 -0400, Frank Krygowski
>> > <frkr...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>> >
>> > >On 9/11/2021 6:06 PM, Lou Holtman wrote:
>> > >> 22 min home assignment ;-)
>> > >>
>> > >> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oSl3A8tHj6U
>> > >>
>> > >> Now you understand why disk brakes and Di2 ;-)
>> > >
>> > >I'm not much into watching random YouTube videos. Care to summarize it?
>> > It seems to be an advertisement for telling the viewer just how
>> > wonderful the Specialized S-Works Tarmac SL7 bicycles really are.
>> >
>> > While viewing it one should remember that George C. Parker sold the
>> > Brooklyn Bridge so many times that they wrote a song about it.
>> Huh, what does selling something to which the seller holds no title have to do with the S-Works Tarmac SL7?
>>
>> The video is about setting it up from frame to complete bike and is interesting, particularly the end, using a device I've never seen to set-up saddle height, tilt, fore-aft. Tool selection was interesting as was topping off the discs after the initial fill and checking for air. The FD is incredibly fast. Its weird to watch how fast the shifts are.
>Why are you bothering to give that moron the time of day? If he isn't bright enough to see that it was a video about how a professional mechanic builds all of the modern bikes, you can see that he, like Frank, is a throwback.

I had made a promise to myself that I wouldn't enter debates with
silly old Tommy but this is too much. A video to show how to assemble
a bicycle... That rather blatantly demonstrates just how fumble
fingered the modern American is, doesn't it.

I say that as I was taking bicycles apart and putting them back
together again when I was 12 years old.
--
Cheers,

John B.