https://cyclingtips.com/2021/09/shimano-105-di2-r7100-is-coming/ Hmmm. I'm feeling curmudgeonly.

-- Jay Beattie.

On Tuesday, September 14, 2021 at 11:22:19 AM UTC-5, jbeattie wrote:
> https://cyclingtips.com/2021/09/shimano-105-di2-r7100-is-coming/ Hmmm. I'm feeling curmudgeonly.
>
> -- Jay Beattie.
Oh no please do not do this my mechanical 6800 shifts wonderful after 30,000 miles too.
Deacon Mark

On 9/14/2021 12:22 PM, jbeattie wrote:
> https://cyclingtips.com/2021/09/shimano-105-di2-r7100-is-coming/ Hmmm. I'm feeling curmudgeonly.
>

From the article: "the sad fact is the bicycle business can be as
fickle as the fashion industry." Gosh, who ever thought that?

--
- Frank Krygowski

On Tuesday, September 14, 2021 at 10:16:28 AM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> On 9/14/2021 12:22 PM, jbeattie wrote:
> > https://cyclingtips.com/2021/09/shimano-105-di2-r7100-is-coming/ Hmmm. I'm feeling curmudgeonly.
> >
> From the article: "the sad fact is the bicycle business can be as
> fickle as the fashion industry." Gosh, who ever thought that?

Oooh, the word "fashion" appeared in that article. You are entirely vindicated . . . well, except for the rest of the article, e.g.:

"The initial Dura-Ace Di2 introduction in 2008 was followed by a lower-cost Ultegra Di2 version in 2011, and both versions have always been positioned as being technically superior to their mechanical counterparts — because they are.

As promised, Di2’s shift performance is uncannily faster and more precise, it’s more consistent over time than mechanical setups, and many riders just prefer the lighter feel of short-stroke buttons instead of bigger levers with more throw. Consumers on tighter budgets have long clamored for a 105 Di2 groupset, but Shimano has instead continued to offered Ultegra mechanical as its preferred choice for that price point."

And with that said, one can still buy Shimano DT shifters. https://bike.shimano.com/en-EU/product/component/claris-2400/SL-R400.html Or Utegra STI cable until next year and then probably in some down-market lever like 105 or Tiagra. MircroShift is also making inroads. Cable shifting will live on.

BTW, Dura Ace and Ultegra is not where the market lives. The money is coming from e-bikes and non-racing bikes -- GRX and all the mountain groups. Road racing bikes like the Specialized S-Works Tarmac SL7 are like McLaren cars -- few are made and few can afford them, although more can afford high-gloss racing bikes than one might expect based on my recent rides in Utah. Anyway, go into an actual bike shop, and they will direct you to an ebike or some comfort bike with Claris.

-- Jay Beattie.

On Tuesday, September 14, 2021 at 1:26:08 PM UTC-5, jbeattie wrote:
> On Tuesday, September 14, 2021 at 10:16:28 AM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> > On 9/14/2021 12:22 PM, jbeattie wrote:
> > > https://cyclingtips.com/2021/09/shimano-105-di2-r7100-is-coming/ Hmmm.. I'm feeling curmudgeonly.
> > >
> > From the article: "the sad fact is the bicycle business can be as
> > fickle as the fashion industry." Gosh, who ever thought that?
> Oooh, the word "fashion" appeared in that article. You are entirely vindicated . . . well, except for the rest of the article, e.g.:
>
> "The initial Dura-Ace Di2 introduction in 2008 was followed by a lower-cost Ultegra Di2 version in 2011, and both versions have always been positioned as being technically superior to their mechanical counterparts — because they are.
>
> As promised, Di2’s shift performance is uncannily faster and more precise, it’s more consistent over time than mechanical setups, and many riders just prefer the lighter feel of short-stroke buttons instead of bigger levers with more throw. Consumers on tighter budgets have long clamored for a 105 Di2 groupset, but Shimano has instead continued to offered Ultegra mechanical as its preferred choice for that price point."
>
> And with that said, one can still buy Shimano DT shifters. https://bike.shimano.com/en-EU/product/component/claris-2400/SL-R400.html Or Utegra STI cable until next year and then probably in some down-market lever like 105 or Tiagra. MircroShift is also making inroads. Cable shifting will live on.
>
> BTW, Dura Ace and Ultegra is not where the market lives. The money is coming from e-bikes and non-racing bikes -- GRX and all the mountain groups. Road racing bikes like the Specialized S-Works Tarmac SL7 are like McLaren cars -- few are made and few can afford them, although more can afford high-gloss racing bikes than one might expect based on my recent rides in Utah. Anyway, go into an actual bike shop, and they will direct you to an ebike or some comfort bike with Claris.
>
> -- Jay Beattie.
My pure road bike with 25mm tires and sometimes 23mm, mechanical Ultegra, rim brakes, titanium to boot, and exposed cables, not to mention the must have threaded BB, well the local bike shops do not even want me showing up. I guess right now I probably could classify myself as a cyclist who is way off mainstream bike riding. I think really the only bike shops of the future for me to go into are those that do real repairs. They really don't care about selling bikes as much as maintaining them and putting bikes together based on specific request. If someone wants and Ebike or town bike upright...............hey we are glad to repair yours if need but we just don't sell those go see this shop............
Deacon Mark

On 2021-09-14, jbeattie <jbeattie57@msn.com> wrote:
> https://cyclingtips.com/2021/09/shimano-105-di2-r7100-is-coming/ Hmmm.
I'm feeling curmudgeonly.
>
> -- Jay Beattie.

Sorry, curmudgeonliness is my domain. Perhaps we could speak about
licensing.
27" and SunTour forever! (and six months longer, even)

pH

On Tue, 14 Sep 2021 13:16:24 -0400, Frank Krygowski
<frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:

>On 9/14/2021 12:22 PM, jbeattie wrote:
>> https://cyclingtips.com/2021/09/shimano-105-di2-r7100-is-coming/ Hmmm. I'm feeling curmudgeonly.
>>
>
> From the article: "the sad fact is the bicycle business can be as
>fickle as the fashion industry." Gosh, who ever thought that?

Don't be silly Frank. "New" just has to be better then "old". How else
could one brag to the neighbors? "Hey! Look at this. It's OLD! Just
doesn't have that certain ring to it.
--
Cheers,

John B.

On 9/14/2021 2:26 PM, jbeattie wrote:
> On Tuesday, September 14, 2021 at 10:16:28 AM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>> On 9/14/2021 12:22 PM, jbeattie wrote:
>>> https://cyclingtips.com/2021/09/shimano-105-di2-r7100-is-coming/ Hmmm. I'm feeling curmudgeonly.
>>>
>> From the article: "the sad fact is the bicycle business can be as
>> fickle as the fashion industry." Gosh, who ever thought that?
>
> Oooh, the word "fashion" appeared in that article. You are entirely vindicated . . . well, except for the rest of the article, e.g.:
>
> "The initial Dura-Ace Di2 introduction in 2008 was followed by a lower-cost Ultegra Di2 version in 2011, and both versions have always been positioned as being technically superior to their mechanical counterparts — because they are.
>
> As promised, Di2’s shift performance is uncannily faster and more precise, it’s more consistent over time than mechanical setups ...

I'm sure "uncannily faster shifts" are just what all cyclists have
always been looking for. For decades and decades, I've loudly bemoaned
the fact that each gearshift takes up to half a second. If I could have
just reduced that to 1/10 second, i coulda been a contender!

And in exchange for that, all I'd have to do is commit to a black box of
unfathomable electronics, hoping it never develops the sorts of glitches
that haunt my PC, my laptop, my "smart" TV and my cell phone. ("Sorry,
gear shifting is not available right now. Please reboot your bicycle and
try again.")

--
- Frank Krygowski

On Tuesday, September 14, 2021 at 5:08:21 PM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> On 9/14/2021 2:26 PM, jbeattie wrote:
> > On Tuesday, September 14, 2021 at 10:16:28 AM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> >> On 9/14/2021 12:22 PM, jbeattie wrote:
> >>> https://cyclingtips.com/2021/09/shimano-105-di2-r7100-is-coming/ Hmmm.. I'm feeling curmudgeonly.
> >>>
> >> From the article: "the sad fact is the bicycle business can be as
> >> fickle as the fashion industry." Gosh, who ever thought that?
> >
> > Oooh, the word "fashion" appeared in that article. You are entirely vindicated . . . well, except for the rest of the article, e.g.:
> >
> > "The initial Dura-Ace Di2 introduction in 2008 was followed by a lower-cost Ultegra Di2 version in 2011, and both versions have always been positioned as being technically superior to their mechanical counterparts — because they are.
> >
> > As promised, Di2’s shift performance is uncannily faster and more precise, it’s more consistent over time than mechanical setups ....
>
> I'm sure "uncannily faster shifts" are just what all cyclists have
> always been looking for. For decades and decades, I've loudly bemoaned
> the fact that each gearshift takes up to half a second. If I could have
> just reduced that to 1/10 second, i coulda been a contender!
>
> And in exchange for that, all I'd have to do is commit to a black box of
> unfathomable electronics, hoping it never develops the sorts of glitches
> that haunt my PC, my laptop, my "smart" TV and my cell phone. ("Sorry,
> gear shifting is not available right now. Please reboot your bicycle and
> try again.")

It's horrible, and you should never do it. EOM.

-- Jay Beattie.

On Tuesday, September 14, 2021 at 11:26:08 AM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote:
> On Tuesday, September 14, 2021 at 10:16:28 AM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> > On 9/14/2021 12:22 PM, jbeattie wrote:
> > > https://cyclingtips.com/2021/09/shimano-105-di2-r7100-is-coming/ Hmmm.. I'm feeling curmudgeonly.
> > >
> > From the article: "the sad fact is the bicycle business can be as
> > fickle as the fashion industry." Gosh, who ever thought that?
> Oooh, the word "fashion" appeared in that article. You are entirely vindicated . . . well, except for the rest of the article, e.g.:
>
> "The initial Dura-Ace Di2 introduction in 2008 was followed by a lower-cost Ultegra Di2 version in 2011, and both versions have always been positioned as being technically superior to their mechanical counterparts — because they are.
>
> As promised, Di2’s shift performance is uncannily faster and more precise, it’s more consistent over time than mechanical setups, and many riders just prefer the lighter feel of short-stroke buttons instead of bigger levers with more throw. Consumers on tighter budgets have long clamored for a 105 Di2 groupset, but Shimano has instead continued to offered Ultegra mechanical as its preferred choice for that price point."
>
> And with that said, one can still buy Shimano DT shifters. https://bike.shimano.com/en-EU/product/component/claris-2400/SL-R400.html Or Utegra STI cable until next year and then probably in some down-market lever like 105 or Tiagra. MircroShift is also making inroads. Cable shifting will live on.
>
> BTW, Dura Ace and Ultegra is not where the market lives. The money is coming from e-bikes and non-racing bikes -- GRX and all the mountain groups. Road racing bikes like the Specialized S-Works Tarmac SL7 are like McLaren cars -- few are made and few can afford them, although more can afford high-gloss racing bikes than one might expect based on my recent rides in Utah. Anyway, go into an actual bike shop, and they will direct you to an ebike or some comfort bike with Claris.

I will be the first to admit that Di2 is superior to manual shifting. It covers a wider range, self corrects the front derailleur and you can set it to shift any speed you like or to shift using only the right lever.

But for my purposes, manual is good enough, cost me 1/4th as much and weighs either the same or less. I have no use for Disk brakes nor for charging batteries or in the case of SRAM, changing batteries.

On Tuesday, September 14, 2021 at 1:28:07 PM UTC-7, deaconm...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Tuesday, September 14, 2021 at 1:26:08 PM UTC-5, jbeattie wrote:
> > On Tuesday, September 14, 2021 at 10:16:28 AM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> > > On 9/14/2021 12:22 PM, jbeattie wrote:
> > > > https://cyclingtips.com/2021/09/shimano-105-di2-r7100-is-coming/ Hmmm. I'm feeling curmudgeonly.
> > > >
> > > From the article: "the sad fact is the bicycle business can be as
> > > fickle as the fashion industry." Gosh, who ever thought that?
> > Oooh, the word "fashion" appeared in that article. You are entirely vindicated . . . well, except for the rest of the article, e.g.:
> >
> > "The initial Dura-Ace Di2 introduction in 2008 was followed by a lower-cost Ultegra Di2 version in 2011, and both versions have always been positioned as being technically superior to their mechanical counterparts — because they are.
> >
> > As promised, Di2’s shift performance is uncannily faster and more precise, it’s more consistent over time than mechanical setups, and many riders just prefer the lighter feel of short-stroke buttons instead of bigger levers with more throw. Consumers on tighter budgets have long clamored for a 105 Di2 groupset, but Shimano has instead continued to offered Ultegra mechanical as its preferred choice for that price point."
> >
> > And with that said, one can still buy Shimano DT shifters. https://bike..shimano.com/en-EU/product/component/claris-2400/SL-R400.html Or Utegra STI cable until next year and then probably in some down-market lever like 105 or Tiagra. MircroShift is also making inroads. Cable shifting will live on..
> >
> > BTW, Dura Ace and Ultegra is not where the market lives. The money is coming from e-bikes and non-racing bikes -- GRX and all the mountain groups. Road racing bikes like the Specialized S-Works Tarmac SL7 are like McLaren cars -- few are made and few can afford them, although more can afford high-gloss racing bikes than one might expect based on my recent rides in Utah.. Anyway, go into an actual bike shop, and they will direct you to an ebike or some comfort bike with Claris.
> >
> > -- Jay Beattie.
> My pure road bike with 25mm tires and sometimes 23mm, mechanical Ultegra, rim brakes, titanium to boot, and exposed cables, not to mention the must have threaded BB, well the local bike shops do not even want me showing up. I guess right now I probably could classify myself as a cyclist who is way off mainstream bike riding. I think really the only bike shops of the future for me to go into are those that do real repairs. They really don't care about selling bikes as much as maintaining them and putting bikes together based on specific request. If someone wants and Ebike or town bike upright...............hey we are glad to repair yours if need but we just don't sell those go see this shop............

I installed the 10 speed latest Campy Centaur on the Douglas and changed from the integrated bar-stem to an old aluminum bar and stem and the bike weighs now a tad over 18 lbs. I also removed the soft Vuelta saddle and replaced it with an EC90 Aspide saddle. The San Marco Aspide has carbon rails that don't fit the seat post and the EC90 people who make the San Marco opted for normal rails. If there was any weight difference I couldn't see it. If I put superlight wheels on it, it would weigh 17 1/2 lbs which is what the Trek in that size weighed. If I could sell a bike I would put the light wheels on it.

When the bits and pieces come in I will change the Airborne over to 11 speed to get the 32 tooth rear cog and the better shifting. I will also replace the integrated bar with another 1" aluminum bar I picked up. That bike has the aluminum braking surfaces and carbon aero sections because that is my climber. The Merlin is heavy and it doesn't look like I can lighten it up any. But it flies on the flats.

On Tuesday, September 14, 2021 at 6:08:39 PM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote:
> On Tuesday, September 14, 2021 at 5:08:21 PM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> > On 9/14/2021 2:26 PM, jbeattie wrote:
> > > On Tuesday, September 14, 2021 at 10:16:28 AM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> > >> On 9/14/2021 12:22 PM, jbeattie wrote:
> > >>> https://cyclingtips.com/2021/09/shimano-105-di2-r7100-is-coming/ Hmmm. I'm feeling curmudgeonly.
> > >>>
> > >> From the article: "the sad fact is the bicycle business can be as
> > >> fickle as the fashion industry." Gosh, who ever thought that?
> > >
> > > Oooh, the word "fashion" appeared in that article. You are entirely vindicated . . . well, except for the rest of the article, e.g.:
> > >
> > > "The initial Dura-Ace Di2 introduction in 2008 was followed by a lower-cost Ultegra Di2 version in 2011, and both versions have always been positioned as being technically superior to their mechanical counterparts — because they are.
> > >
> > > As promised, Di2’s shift performance is uncannily faster and more precise, it’s more consistent over time than mechanical setups ...
> >
> > I'm sure "uncannily faster shifts" are just what all cyclists have
> > always been looking for. For decades and decades, I've loudly bemoaned
> > the fact that each gearshift takes up to half a second. If I could have
> > just reduced that to 1/10 second, i coulda been a contender!
> >
> > And in exchange for that, all I'd have to do is commit to a black box of
> > unfathomable electronics, hoping it never develops the sorts of glitches
> > that haunt my PC, my laptop, my "smart" TV and my cell phone. ("Sorry,
> > gear shifting is not available right now. Please reboot your bicycle and
> > try again.")
> It's horrible, and you should never do it. EOM.

Why do you suppose I never have any glitches in my desk top, lap top, smart phone and TV? You don't think it is because Frank doesn't know how to use them do you?