A light aluminum handlebar and stem are both lighter and more comfortable than the integrated and aero sort. Chinese carbon wheels are about 1700 grams and the American sold versions are usually a little lighter but break more often. And most of them are made in China as well.

Do carbon aero rims really give any advantage? Pro teams are using then on the theory that what goes up must come down and aero wheels lend a bit of advantage at peloton speeds.

As for the rest of it like internal wiring and disk hoses, if there is any advantage it has never been shown. The UCI shortening up the grand tour stages has had a LOT more effect than any aero benefits. Pro riders can ride faster over shorter courses with less long term fatigue. Could you just picture riders going over the Gavia in a snow storm that had then plowing two feet of snow off of the road DURING the race and with 6' piles aside the road? This was unbelievable and while spectacular the UCI would never allow this ever again.

Carbon wheels without disks have absolutely terrible braking though using Campy brake pads does make a world of difference. Which brings the question - are these shoes causing more rapid wear of the carbon brake track? Just looking at them it appears to be so, though I haven't worn out any of these wheels yet. Though my old original clinchers are now looking like it is time to replace them. At the moment I am looking into aluminum wheels because I prefer rim brakes as providing more of an aero advantage than the aero wheels and aluminum as providing a FAR better braking than anything but disks which can provide far too much braking. After using carbon rims I had to get used to aluminum rims for braking all over again since I was over-braking a lot.

Campy Shamals are a half lb lighter than the Chinese wheels though they weigh the same as a Campy Bora wheel. But clincher carbon rims are VERY dangerous with rim brakes since the melting temperature of the resin is below the temperature of the brake track when you are braking heavily. This can cause the clincher section of the rim to collapse and the wheel to pop off. Since Tubies don't have this part of the rim they are fairly safe from this cause of failure. But still, disk brakes are indicated on carbon wheels because of this problem.

This means that older frames can be dangerous to use with carbon aero section rims and rim brakes. And also since the sports rider simply doesn't ride fast enough to give any aero advantage to these rims, aluminum box sections are both lighter in the lower price areas, and of no aero disadvantage. And in their speed regime, they don't lose any aero advantage since the rim brakes are more aero than disks.

By going to back to these components I am significantly lightening my bikes.. My choice of titanium is a heavier frameset than aluminum but Jay's complaints about aluminum frame failures aren't really significant since they appear to be Cannondale which very early were breaking at welds.

So breaking aluminum framesets is possible while catastrophic failures is rare. Carbon framesets breaking catastrophically is not that rare and the results of that are obvious. Carbon handlebars, stems and forks CAN be make very reliable since the forces are in the direction of the strongest strength of the material whereas you can't do this effectively with a frameset. Even Look has had frame failures though not with their forks.

Time has NOT had frame failures because they are not built with pure carbon fiber but include man-made fibers woven directly into the frame as it is manufactured.

Almost all of the other companies has their bikes and wheels made in China. Trek is an exception and they use a patented high pressure manufacturing system that makes them almost unbreakable. Catastrophic failures of a Trek are almost unheard of and all that I have ever seen were from before this system was developed. However, Trek are not light in the same sense as other carbon fiber bikes which often have to add weight to reach the UCI weight limit.

So, IF I were to change the bikes I ride, I would start by keeping my Eddy Merckx Elite aluminum bike and get a backup for that. Not only is the Eddy light, but it handles well as slow as I go and at speed on descents.

But instead I shall keep my titanium bikes and put up with the fact that I have to work a little to get them down to the weight of my 2018 Trek Emonda..

Am 15.09.2021 um 18:44 schrieb Tom Kunich:
> Could you just picture riders going over the Gavia in a snow storm
> that had then plowing two feet of snow off of the road DURING the
> race and with 6' piles aside the road? This was unbelievable and
> while spectacular the UCI would never allow this ever again.
The Gaiva is quite spectacular even in a car and at good weather. My
son as co-pilot led me over it this summer ("it's only half an hour
detour on our way to Stelvio").

On Thursday, September 16, 2021 at 12:30:10 AM UTC-7, Rolf Mantel wrote:
> Am 15.09.2021 um 18:44 schrieb Tom Kunich:
> > Could you just picture riders going over the Gavia in a snow storm
> > that had then plowing two feet of snow off of the road DURING the
> > race and with 6' piles aside the road? This was unbelievable and
> > while spectacular the UCI would never allow this ever again.
> The Gaiva is quite spectacular even in a car and at good weather. My
> son as co-pilot led me over it this summer ("it's only half an hour
> detour on our way to Stelvio").
I'm sure that both passes are. But the UCI is, I think, destroying their own credibility by attempting to design courses in such a manner that they can brag that records are being broken rather than a race being completed.