I've torn my hair out! Enough is enough! So here's my SQOTW, Stupid
Question Of The Week.

On the Google Play website on a Windows computer (*not* in the Play
Store app on an Android device), I can no longer scroll/page/move
(down and up) through the 'About this app' popup.

IIRC, this scrolling/paging/moving down and up had to be done in a
rather akward way, like pressing cursor down until the page moved or
some such strange way, but now nothing works. Not the cursor keys, not
pg dn / pg up (not the normal keys and not the 'doubles' on the numeric
pad), no scroll bar anywhere, nothing.

I've tried this in Windows 11 and 10 in Chrome and Edge.

An example:

'SyncMe Wireless'
<https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.bv.wifisync>

Go to the 'About this app ->' part (which may be towards the bottom of
the page) and click on the arrow.

You now get a popup/popin window. For me the bottom of the text says
"Known issues:", which clearly indicates there should be more (for
example the 'Compatibility with your active devices' section).

How the heck do you scroll down to see the rest of the text!?

[N.B. Never mind the app. It's just an example. I've the same problem
with all the other apps I've looked at.]

[N.B.2. Yes, JavaScript is enabled. With JavaScript disabled, you don't
get the popup at all.]

On 6/22/2023 8:14 AM, Frank Slootweg wrote:
> I've torn my hair out! Enough is enough! So here's my SQOTW, Stupid
> Question Of The Week.
>
> On the Google Play website on a Windows computer (*not* in the Play
> Store app on an Android device), I can no longer scroll/page/move
> (down and up) through the 'About this app' popup.
>
> IIRC, this scrolling/paging/moving down and up had to be done in a
> rather akward way, like pressing cursor down until the page moved or
> some such strange way, but now nothing works. Not the cursor keys, not
> pg dn / pg up (not the normal keys and not the 'doubles' on the numeric
> pad), no scroll bar anywhere, nothing.

Both my trackball scroll wheel and touch screen scroll the popup normally.

> I've tried this in Windows 11 and 10 in Chrome and Edge.
>
> An example:
>
> 'SyncMe Wireless'
> <https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.bv.wifisync>
>
> Go to the 'About this app ->' part (which may be towards the bottom of
> the page) and click on the arrow.
>
> You now get a popup/popin window. For me the bottom of the text says
> "Known issues:", which clearly indicates there should be more (for
> example the 'Compatibility with your active devices' section).

The bottom text on the popup I get in your example is:

"This section shows you whether this app works on your devices. You’ll
only see devices that are linked to your Google Account and that have
been active in the last 30 days."

> How the heck do you scroll down to see the rest of the text!?

Mine seems to scroll normally. Perhaps a local problem for you?

I'm using Windows 11 Home 22H2 Build 22621.1848 and Chrome Version
114.0.5735.134 (Official Build) (64-bit)

> [N.B. Never mind the app. It's just an example. I've the same problem
> with all the other apps I've looked at.]
>
> [N.B.2. Yes, JavaScript is enabled. With JavaScript disabled, you don't
> get the popup at all.]

Sorry I couldn't help more...

Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> wrote:

> I've torn my hair out! Enough is enough! So here's my SQOTW, Stupid
> Question Of The Week.
>
> On the Google Play website on a Windows computer (*not* in the Play
> Store app on an Android device), I can no longer scroll/page/move
> (down and up) through the 'About this app' popup.
>
> IIRC, this scrolling/paging/moving down and up had to be done in a
> rather akward way, like pressing cursor down until the page moved or
> some such strange way, but now nothing works. Not the cursor keys, not
> pg dn / pg up (not the normal keys and not the 'doubles' on the numeric
> pad), no scroll bar anywhere, nothing.
>
> I've tried this in Windows 11 and 10 in Chrome and Edge.
>
> An example:
>
> 'SyncMe Wireless'
> <https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.bv.wifisync>
>
> Go to the 'About this app ->' part (which may be towards the bottom of
> the page) and click on the arrow.
>
> You now get a popup/popin window. For me the bottom of the text says
> "Known issues:", which clearly indicates there should be more (for
> example the 'Compatibility with your active devices' section).
>
> How the heck do you scroll down to see the rest of the text!?
>
> [N.B. Never mind the app. It's just an example. I've the same problem
> with all the other apps I've looked at.]
>
> [N.B.2. Yes, JavaScript is enabled. With JavaScript disabled, you don't
> get the popup at all.]

Although you posted in an Android newsgroup which would have you using
the mobile versions of web browsers, you ask here on a problem involving
a desktop web browser, and should've asked in the Win10/11 newsgroups.
Firefox has its own newsgroup, but you said you used Chrome and Edge
(which presumably means Edge-Chromium). Instead of using the Play Store
app on your Android device, did you use a web browser there, like the
Chrome that came bundled on the phone (and presumably has been updated
to the latest version), or installed a different web browser on your
Android phone, like Firefox?

In desktop Firefox, I go to play.google.com, and search on an app, like
Parking Premium. That app page is the type where you have to click on
the app name to get more info. I hate this setup. When I first ran
across this, I had to experiment by clicking around trying to get more
info. Web dev was an idiot. That brings up a new web page where I can
then click on "About this app", another stupid design since obviously
desktop web browsers could easily display all this info in the current
page. It is a moron design for the lowest common denominator client:
web browsers (of which most mobile apps are, but specifically designed
for a limited interface) on toy computers. You can't click on "About
this app" since they don't make that a comment in an anchor or a
Javascript onhover event. Just the rightward arrow is clickable.

When I finally get the "About this app" popup window, I usually just use
the middle button of the mouse to scroll up and down, but there is a
scrollbar on the right side, too. The popup window is a flex container,
more CSS shit.

https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Learn/CSS/CSS_layout/Flexbox

When I visit your example app page, and click on the right arrow after
"About this app", I get the popup flex container, and it is scrollable
using either the mouse wheel or using the right-side scrollbar. I
tested this in Firefox 114 x64 on Windows 10 Home x64 22H2. With
desktop Firefox, scrollwheel and scrollbar are available. However, when
I tested using desktop Edge-Chromium 114 under the same OS, the
scrollbar was absent, but the mouse scrollwheel still worked. Looks
like Google is further dumbing down their web docs for use on toy
computers, and expecting users to scroll using screen gestures (finger
dragging to scroll). Does the mouse scrollwheel not work for you?
Normally I default to using the scrollwheel unless I have to drag a long
ways through the web doc to skip a lot at one end.

A while back, I had to use a Chromium web browser to submit reviews at
the Play Store. Firefox wouldn't work there. I used Edge-Chromium (and
Chrome back when I had it, but dumped it when Microsoft switched to
Blink for a rendering engine and V8 for scripting; i.e., Edge became a
Chromium variant) to submit reviews at the Play Store. Seems Google
desisted in making their web site Chrom[e|ium] dependent, but I'd have
to test further to see if Firefox will fully work okay there now. My
guess, and just a guess, is Google is further dumb-ifying its web docs
to orient toward toy computers (smartphones) since that has become the
largest market share of web surfers. Web traffic volume is now 65% from
mobile devices. Or, maybe some web dev at Google fucked up in what
content gets delivered based on the web client that connects to them,
and the web dev neglected to add a scrollbar to the flex container.
Either way, to me, it's a fuckup by Google.

According to https://www.w3schools.com/css/css3_flexbox.asp, flex
containers have been supported for a long time across many web browsers
(see "Browser support" section). So, I doubt the problem is you're
using a too-old version of the web browser.

Fo now, try using the mouse scrollbar until Google decides to re-add a
scrollbar to the flex container, or switch to Firefox where the
scrollbar is still present. I don't remember ever using the arrow keys
or Page Up/Down to move through content inside the flex container.
There's no cursor insert pointer to move within the flex content.

AJL <noemail@none.com> wrote:
> On 6/22/2023 8:14 AM, Frank Slootweg wrote:
> > I've torn my hair out! Enough is enough! So here's my SQOTW, Stupid
> > Question Of The Week.
> >
> > On the Google Play website on a Windows computer (*not* in the Play
> > Store app on an Android device), I can no longer scroll/page/move
> > (down and up) through the 'About this app' popup.
> >
> > IIRC, this scrolling/paging/moving down and up had to be done in a
> > rather akward way, like pressing cursor down until the page moved or
> > some such strange way, but now nothing works. Not the cursor keys, not
> > pg dn / pg up (not the normal keys and not the 'doubles' on the numeric
> > pad), no scroll bar anywhere, nothing.
>
> Both my trackball scroll wheel and touch screen scroll the popup normally.

Hmmm!? You may be on to something! See below.

> > I've tried this in Windows 11 and 10 in Chrome and Edge.
> >
> > An example:
> >
> > 'SyncMe Wireless'
> > <https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.bv.wifisync>
> >
> > Go to the 'About this app ->' part (which may be towards the bottom of
> > the page) and click on the arrow.
> >
> > You now get a popup/popin window. For me the bottom of the text says
> > "Known issues:", which clearly indicates there should be more (for
> > example the 'Compatibility with your active devices' section).
>
> The bottom text on the popup I get in your example is:
>
> "This section shows you whether this app works on your devices. You?ll
> only see devices that are linked to your Google Account and that have
> been active in the last 30 days."
>
> > How the heck do you scroll down to see the rest of the text!?
>
> Mine seems to scroll normally. Perhaps a local problem for you?

Bingo!

I now understand why it does not work, but do not understand why it
did work in the past.

Let me explain:

I have a Windows 11 laptop with a touchpad and hence no scroll wheel.

The Windows 10 system is my wife's 'desktop' and that has a mouse with
a scroll wheel and, by golly, that indeed works.

But how could it have worked in the past on my laptop? At the time, it
probably was my (different) Windows 8.1 laptop, but that also did not
have a scroll wheel. The software for that (Synaptics) touchpad had a
scroll *area* on the touchpad, but I had disabled that. So how could it
- scrolling - have worked? Still a mystery!

Anyway, no dwelling in the past, so how to get a scroll area on this
Windows 11 laptop? This laptop does not seem to have any additional
software for special features on the touchpad. It just has the basic
driver. Strange, because both old and new laptop are HP's.

So I'll have to look if I can get additional (Synaptics) software for
my touchpad.

> I'm using Windows 11 Home 22H2 Build 22621.1848 and Chrome Version
> 114.0.5735.134 (Official Build) (64-bit)
>
> > [N.B. Never mind the app. It's just an example. I've the same problem
> > with all the other apps I've looked at.]
> >
> > [N.B.2. Yes, JavaScript is enabled. With JavaScript disabled, you don't
> > get the popup at all.]
>
> Sorry I couldn't help more...

You helped plenty!

Remains the question (for others and perhaps also for you):

Can you get the scrolling (in the 'About this app' popup) to work
*without* using a scroll wheel or similar (i.e. scroll area on a
touchpad)? If so, how?

(Reason: I would like to leave things as they are. Until now I've
never needed a scroll area on the touchpad and when you have such an
area, it's (too) easily touched by accident, so you have to turn it on
and off.)

Earlier, I wrote:
> AJL <noemail@none.com> wrote:
> > On 6/22/2023 8:14 AM, Frank Slootweg wrote:

[Lots deleted.]

> Remains the question (for others and perhaps also for you):
>
> Can you get the scrolling (in the 'About this app' popup) to work
> *without* using a scroll wheel or similar (i.e. scroll area on a
> touchpad)? If so, how?
>
> (Reason: I would like to leave things as they are. Until now I've
> never needed a scroll area on the touchpad and when you have such an
> area, it's (too) easily touched by accident, so you have to turn it on
> and off.)

Duh!

Synaptics points to the laptop manufacturer and HP only has the
touchpad driver, no additional software.

So I did some Google searches and found out that Windows 11 does not
only have Mouse settings (where I looked before, because on earlier
systems the touchpad settings were in the device specific part of the
mouse settings), but also has Touchpad settings (Settings -> Bluetooth &
devices -> Touchpad), and - lo and behold - that has a tick mark

[V] Drag two fingers to scroll

So that way I can scroll in the 'About this app' popup!

Problem solved. (I still don't know how it worked on the old Windows
8.1 laptop, but that's now unimportant.)

VanguardLH <V@nguard.lh> wrote:
> Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> wrote:
>
> > I've torn my hair out! Enough is enough! So here's my SQOTW, Stupid
> > Question Of The Week.
> >
> > On the Google Play website on a Windows computer (*not* in the Play
> > Store app on an Android device), I can no longer scroll/page/move
> > (down and up) through the 'About this app' popup.
> >
> > IIRC, this scrolling/paging/moving down and up had to be done in a
> > rather akward way, like pressing cursor down until the page moved or
> > some such strange way, but now nothing works. Not the cursor keys, not
> > pg dn / pg up (not the normal keys and not the 'doubles' on the numeric
> > pad), no scroll bar anywhere, nothing.
> >
> > I've tried this in Windows 11 and 10 in Chrome and Edge.
> >
> > An example:
> >
> > 'SyncMe Wireless'
> > <https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.bv.wifisync>
> >
> > Go to the 'About this app ->' part (which may be towards the bottom of
> > the page) and click on the arrow.
> >
> > You now get a popup/popin window. For me the bottom of the text says
> > "Known issues:", which clearly indicates there should be more (for
> > example the 'Compatibility with your active devices' section).
> >
> > How the heck do you scroll down to see the rest of the text!?
> >
> > [N.B. Never mind the app. It's just an example. I've the same problem
> > with all the other apps I've looked at.]
> >
> > [N.B.2. Yes, JavaScript is enabled. With JavaScript disabled, you don't
> > get the popup at all.]
>
> Although you posted in an Android newsgroup which would have you using
> the mobile versions of web browsers, you ask here on a problem involving
> a desktop web browser, and should've asked in the Win10/11 newsgroups.

Nope, I shouldn't. I asked here, because Android users are much more
likely to use the Google Play website (on their computer) than your
average Windows user.

[Lots deleted.]

> Fo now, try using the mouse scrollbar until Google decides to re-add a
> scrollbar to the flex container, or switch to Firefox where the
> scrollbar is still present.

As the (non-scrollbar) problem occurs in both Chrome and Edge, I don't
think it's a problem with the Google Play website, nor with Google in
general.

Anyway, I can now scroll with the touchpad, so problem solved.

> I don't remember ever using the arrow keys
> or Page Up/Down to move through content inside the flex container.
> There's no cursor insert pointer to move within the flex content.

If I ever boot my old laptop, I'll try to remember to again. Perhaps
the behaviour depends on the (old) web browser, the software of the old
touchpad, etc..

Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> said:

> On the Google Play website on a Windows computer (*not* in the Play
> Store app on an Android device), I can no longer scroll/page/move
> (down and up) through the 'About this app' popup.

I tested what I think is your issue on Windows 10 & Firefox 109.0.1.

First I went to the example google play store web site.
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.bv.wifisync

And then I scrolled using the mouse wheel and the side sliding bar.
I also tried the page down arrows. All three methods worked.

Then I pressed the right pointing arrow next to the "About this app."
It popped up "Copy, move, sync and backup your mp3..." as you know.

And then it scrolled with the mouse wheel and its own side slide bar.
But this time the page down arrows did not work.

So that means the page down arrows are different somehow from the scrolling
wheel on the mouse and the scroll bar on the right side of the window.

Other than the page down arrows not working, it didn't seem awkward.

The very last lines of the first page say what you saw on yours.
"Known issues:
1) Insufficient resources error on Windows:"

Where my last line is the "insufficient resources" but it scrolls past that
to include another page up to the last line being "in the last 30 days."

Unfortunately I don't have a touch pad to test as it's a desktop computer.

Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> wrote:

> VanguardLH <V@nguard.lh> wrote:
>
>> Although you posted in an Android newsgroup which would have you
>> using the mobile versions of web browsers, you ask here on a problem
>> involving a desktop web browser, and should've asked in the Win10/11
>> newsgroups.
>
> Nope, I shouldn't. I asked here, because Android users are much more
> likely to use the Google Play website (on their computer) than your
> average Windows user.

That's not me, but then I don't claim to be a typical Play Store user.
I can't think of an app where I got it using the Play Store app. I'll
manage the apps using that app, like checking for updates (although
configured for auto-updates, I still have to occasionally check when
there are updates, and get them). However, to get the apps, I almost
always use the web browser (Firefox) on my desktop PC. When I choose an
app to retrieve, and when logged in to my Google account, it shows a
list of compatible devices to where I can push the app to install it.
I find doing anything Web is more clumsy and more difficult on the phone
than in a web browser on my desktop.

Sorry, but your statement seems confusing. "more likely to use the
Google Play website (on their computer) than your average Windows user".
Aren't Windows users on their computer when visiting the web site?
Seems like you are describing the same audience. Maybe it's me, and I
need more coffee, or more beer.

You posted in an Android newsgroup, but it's not using the Play Store
app or a mobile web browser on an Android device. You pulled back on
the audience by stating the problem was when using Chrome or Edge on a
desktop PC. Does the problem still occur if you use the Chrome web
browser on your smartphone to visit the site? I wouldn't be surprised
since the expectation with that platform is there will be no mouse, no
trackball, or other pointing device, and you have to use your finger on
the phone's screen to scroll the content.

>> Fo now, try using the mouse scrollbar until Google decides to re-add a
>> scrollbar to the flex container, or switch to Firefox where the
>> scrollbar is still present.
>
> As the (non-scrollbar) problem occurs in both Chrome and Edge, I don't
> think it's a problem with the Google Play website, nor with Google in
> general.

The common denominator when using Chrome or Edge-Chromium is you are
using a Chromium variant on your desktop PC in each case to visit the
site to get the flexbox. I also did not get a scrollbar when using
Edge-Chromium on Windows on a desktop PC. I did get a scrollbar when
visiting there using Firefox on Windows on a desktop PC. I didn't
bother to test using Chrome or Firefox on my Android phone since I
wouldn't be surprised at the absence of scrollbars when the normal
pointing device is your finger.

> Anyway, I can now scroll with the touchpad, so problem solved.

Mouse wheel. Touchpad scroll area. In either case, that's how you
scroll when the web dev neglected to add scrollbars. I have hit other
sites where (in their regular web docs, not in popups) they neglected to
add scrollbars, so the only way to move around the web doc is by using
hardware-based scrolling.

Glad that works for you as a workaround. If scrolling a little, I use
the mouse scrollwheel. I only use the scrollbar when I have to move a
lot. If the flexbox ever gets really REALLY long then the absence of a
scrollbar with make viewing the content highly tedious, especially since
such scrolling via scrollwheel or touchpad doesn't add inertia to the
stroke (flicking the control does not generate an impulse to movement to
keep it going when you release the scroll control).

Hopefully the absence of scrollbars was a mistake by the web dev. Even
when using a mobile web browser on a phone to visit their site,
scrolling past a lot of content would be tedious if all you could do is
flick your finger on the screen instead of drag a scrollbar.

Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> wrote:

> I have a Windows 11 laptop with a touchpad and hence no scroll wheel.

Been awhile since I last used my laptop or netbook, but my recollection
is you drag your finger alongside the right edge of the trackpad which
works as a scrolling control. I don't think it is a hardware-based
scrolling function. I think the touchpad software recognizes a zone of
the trackpad to perform certain functions, like the top-left zone acts
as the left mouse button and top-right acts as the right mouse button
(if there aren't separate buttons alongside the trackpad).

Might be something you have to investigate in the software that came
bundled in the OS for the trackpad. It might have options you configure
for how to define zones of the trackpad.

Update: Just before submitting, I see you found settings for the
trackpad. Yeah, I'm used to looking in ancilliary software provided by
the trackpad maker instead of hunting around in Windows. Guess
Synaptics worked with Microsoft to reduce their software footprint by
integrating the customizations into Windows.