I can't even remember how I got there, but I know that google play has a
record of every app I've installed on the devices I've used (2 tablets,
3 phones...) with the account I use for my phone. Even the ones I
deleted. I seem to remember the entire list being installed on a new
phone. At this point there may be hundreds of unwanted apps in this
list. I don't EVER want to have to delete all those unsatisfactory apps
again -- and I suspect that they might even fill up the memory of
whatever phone I buy next..

1. What is this list called and how do I get to it with either my
computer or my phone? I've flailed around for half an hour with no success.

2. How do I delete forever from google's memory those apps I found
unsatisfactory and deleted and NEVER want to even think about again? I
shudder to think that google might think that restoring them all might
be a good idea.

Cheers, Bev

The Real Bev <bashley101@gmail.com> wrote:

> I can't even remember how I got there, but I know that google play has a
> record of every app I've installed on the devices I've used (2 tablets,
> 3 phones...) with the account I use for my phone. Even the ones I
> deleted. I seem to remember the entire list being installed on a new
> phone. At this point there may be hundreds of unwanted apps in this
> list. I don't EVER want to have to delete all those unsatisfactory apps
> again -- and I suspect that they might even fill up the memory of
> whatever phone I buy next..
>
> 1. What is this list called and how do I get to it with either my
> computer or my phone? I've flailed around for half an hour with no success.
>
> 2. How do I delete forever from google's memory those apps I found
> unsatisfactory and deleted and NEVER want to even think about again? I
> shudder to think that google might think that restoring them all might
> be a good idea.
>
> Cheers, Bev

As I recall, after doing a reset on the phone, it sets itself up again.
One step is to log into your Google account. At that point, there is a
checkbox on whether or not you want to reinstall apps. Make sure it is
deseclected. Basically you want to avoid restoring from a backup during
the setup after a reset.

On 6/29/23 3:15 PM, The Real Bev wrote:
> I can't even remember how I got there, but I know that google play has a
> record of every app I've installed on the devices I've used (2 tablets,
> 3 phones...) with the account I use for my phone. Even the ones I
> deleted. I seem to remember the entire list being installed on a new
> phone. At this point there may be hundreds of unwanted apps in this
> list. I don't EVER want to have to delete all those unsatisfactory apps
> again -- and I suspect that they might even fill up the memory of
> whatever phone I buy next..
>
> 1. What is this list called and how do I get to it with either my
> computer or my phone? I've flailed around for half an hour with no success.
>
> 2. How do I delete forever from google's memory those apps I found
> unsatisfactory and deleted and NEVER want to even think about again? I
> shudder to think that google might think that restoring them all might
> be a good idea.

I found this, but it's not clear that it removes the apps from google's
list rather than just my phone's list:

"You can see all the apps you've ever downloaded on your Android phone
by opening the "My apps & games" section in your Google Play Store. The
apps you've downloaded are divided into two sections: "Installed" (all
the apps currently installed on your phone) and "Library" (all the apps
that aren't currently installed)."

--
Cheers, Bev
Just as you cannot explain snow to a summer insect, so also you cannot
explain ski resorts to someone who walks uphill willingly. --ErikL

On 6/29/23 4:00 PM, VanguardLH wrote:
> The Real Bev <bashley101@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> I can't even remember how I got there, but I know that google play has a
>> record of every app I've installed on the devices I've used (2 tablets,
>> 3 phones...) with the account I use for my phone. Even the ones I
>> deleted. I seem to remember the entire list being installed on a new
>> phone. At this point there may be hundreds of unwanted apps in this
>> list. I don't EVER want to have to delete all those unsatisfactory apps
>> again -- and I suspect that they might even fill up the memory of
>> whatever phone I buy next..
>>
>> 1. What is this list called and how do I get to it with either my
>> computer or my phone? I've flailed around for half an hour with no success.
>>
>> 2. How do I delete forever from google's memory those apps I found
>> unsatisfactory and deleted and NEVER want to even think about again? I
>> shudder to think that google might think that restoring them all might
>> be a good idea.
>
> As I recall, after doing a reset on the phone, it sets itself up again.
> One step is to log into your Google account. At that point, there is a
> checkbox on whether or not you want to reinstall apps. Make sure it is
> deseclected. Basically you want to avoid restoring from a backup during
> the setup after a reset.

That makes sense, but I'd really like to get rid of the offenders in
order to avoid their being reinstalled inadvertently. I'm sorry to say
that google's questions are frequently ambiguous.

--
Cheers, Bev
Just as you cannot explain snow to a summer insect, so also you cannot
explain ski resorts to someone who walks uphill willingly. --ErikL

On Thu, 29 Jun 2023 16:10:39 -0700, The Real Bev wrote:

>> 2. How do I delete forever from google's memory those apps I found
>> unsatisfactory and deleted and NEVER want to even think about again? I
>> shudder to think that google might think that restoring them all might
>> be a good idea.
>
> I found this, but it's not clear that it removes the apps from google's
> list rather than just my phone's list.

It's a good question for those few who have a google account on Android.

I don't have a google account so I had to google how to delete all the apps
from the Google Play list (which is likely stored on a Google server so
resetting the phone doesn't change that if it is stored on servers).
https://www.google.com/search?q=how+to+delete+app+list+from+google+play

This is the first reference which seems to give you the necessary steps.
https://www.groovypost.com/howto/clear-downloaded-app-history-google-play-store/
"Swipe your finger from right to left to reveal the All apps section.
You'll see a complete list of every app you've downloaded from your Google
account - including apps on other Android devices. You can delete
previously downloaded apps from the list by tapping the remove icon next to
it. You aren't able to delete apps that are currently installed on your
device from here though."

To delete the app listing on the Google servers, they say you can do it
from a PC.
"If your Android device isn't handy, you can delete your app history from
your browser from your computer as well. Just go to the My Apps section
Google Play Store and log in. Then select your device and click the
trashcan icon next to an app, and verify you want to uninstall it."

They then go on to tell you how to delete your google play store search
history also.
https://www.groovypost.com/delete-google-play-search-history/
"Open Google Play Store and tap on the menu button. Then tap on the
Settings button. Next, under Settings, scroll down and tap on the "Clear
Local Search History" option under General section. Note that you won't get
a special icon or notification that pops up. It just clears your Play Store
search history from your phone."

The best way around all this is to simply not have a Google account set up
on the Android phone (it's easier not to have an account than to have one).

On 6/29/23 6:01 PM, Mickey D wrote:
> On Thu, 29 Jun 2023 16:10:39 -0700, The Real Bev wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>>> 2. How do I delete forever from google's memory those apps I found
>>> unsatisfactory and deleted and NEVER want to even think about again? I
>>> shudder to think that google might think that restoring them all might
>>> be a good idea.
>>
>> I found this, but it's not clear that it removes the apps from google's
>> list rather than just my phone's list.
>
> It's a good question for those few who have a google account on Android.
>
> I don't have a google account so I had to google how to delete all the apps
> from the Google Play list (which is likely stored on a Google server so
> resetting the phone doesn't change that if it is stored on servers).
> https://www.google.com/search?q=how+to+delete+app+list+from+google+play
>
> This is the first reference which seems to give you the necessary steps.
> https://www.groovypost.com/howto/clear-downloaded-app-history-google-play-store/
> "Swipe your finger from right to left to reveal the All apps section.
> You'll see a complete list of every app you've downloaded from your Google
> account - including apps on other Android devices. You can delete
> previously downloaded apps from the list by tapping the remove icon next to
> it. You aren't able to delete apps that are currently installed on your
> device from here though."
>
> To delete the app listing on the Google servers, they say you can do it
> from a PC.
> "If your Android device isn't handy, you can delete your app history from
> your browser from your computer as well. Just go to the My Apps section
> Google Play Store and log in. Then select your device and click the
> trashcan icon next to an app, and verify you want to uninstall it."

I did that and hope that it removes them from the on-site list. For all
I know google saves everything.

> They then go on to tell you how to delete your google play store search
> history also.

History is useful, and its existence doesn't bother me.

> https://www.groovypost.com/delete-google-play-search-history/
> "Open Google Play Store and tap on the menu button. Then tap on the
> Settings button. Next, under Settings, scroll down and tap on the "Clear
> Local Search History" option under General section. Note that you won't get
> a special icon or notification that pops up. It just clears your Play Store
> search history from your phone."
>
> The best way around all this is to simply not have a Google account set up
> on the Android phone (it's easier not to have an account than to have one).

No, google provides useful stuff to account-holders even if some of it
is crippled. Contacts, saved addresses and locations, other stuff that
I only remember when I want to use it...

The feds already knows everything about me worth knowing. All google et
al. can do with my info is try to sell me stuff, and if they want to
waste money and resources on that it's fine with me.

--
Cheers, Bev
You know it's time to clean the refrigerator when
something closes the door from the inside.

Am 30.06.23 um 03:01 schrieb Mickey D:
> The best way around all this is to simply not have a Google account set up
> on the Android phone (it's easier not to have an account than to have one).

Sorry that is nonsense. To use an Android device reasonably it is useful
to set up a Google-Account to just have this device and not to use it
for anything else. That is just what I do. If I hadn't a Google-Account
many useful things would be impossible and the device could be thrown
into the garbage. Waste of money.

It is a total contradiction to buy an Android device and refuse to use a
Google Account. Then buy an iPhone or a Linux device if you can handle it.

--
Prudentia potentia est

Joerg Lorenz <hugybear@gmx.ch> wrote:

> Am 30.06.23 um 03:01 schrieb Mickey D:
>> The best way around all this is to simply not have a Google account set up
>> on the Android phone (it's easier not to have an account than to have one).
>
> Sorry that is nonsense. To use an Android device reasonably it is useful
> to set up a Google-Account to just have this device and not to use it
> for anything else. That is just what I do. If I hadn't a Google-Account
> many useful things would be impossible and the device could be thrown
> into the garbage. Waste of money.
>
> It is a total contradiction to buy an Android device and refuse to use a
> Google Account. Then buy an iPhone or a Linux device if you can handle it.

The iPhones don't require an Apple account (aka Apple ID), like to use
iCloud? I suppose, for online storage, you could use Dropbox or Google
Drive, but then you're just giving the same info, but to someone else.
Can you use the iPhone's App Store without an Apple account? If not,
won't you have to sideload every app you want on the iPhone. There are
some bundled apps on the iPhone, but I don't see that suite of app as
being sufficient for how anyone wants to use the iPhone. If you forget
your password, you can use iForgot, but that has you verify your account
information to reset your password which means you must have an Apple
account.

I'm not sure an iPhone without an Apple ID is any worse or better than
for an Android phone without a Google account.

Am 30.06.23 um 09:21 schrieb VanguardLH:
> Joerg Lorenz <hugybear@gmx.ch> wrote:
>
>> Am 30.06.23 um 03:01 schrieb Mickey D:
>>> The best way around all this is to simply not have a Google account set up
>>> on the Android phone (it's easier not to have an account than to have one).
>>
>> Sorry that is nonsense. To use an Android device reasonably it is useful
>> to set up a Google-Account to just have this device and not to use it
>> for anything else. That is just what I do. If I hadn't a Google-Account
>> many useful things would be impossible and the device could be thrown
>> into the garbage. Waste of money.
>>
>> It is a total contradiction to buy an Android device and refuse to use a
>> Google Account. Then buy an iPhone or a Linux device if you can handle it.
>
> The iPhones don't require an Apple account (aka Apple ID), like to use
> iCloud? I suppose, for online storage, you could use Dropbox or Google
> Drive, but then you're just giving the same info, but to someone else.

Don't you understand the difference between Apple and Google? Apple
sells products and *for Google you are the product*.

> Can you use the iPhone's App Store without an Apple account? If not,
> won't you have to sideload every app you want on the iPhone. There are
> some bundled apps on the iPhone, but I don't see that suite of app as
> being sufficient for how anyone wants to use the iPhone. If you forget
> your password, you can use iForgot, but that has you verify your account
> information to reset your password which means you must have an Apple
> account.
>
> I'm not sure an iPhone without an Apple ID is any worse or better than
> for an Android phone without a Google account.

Don't you understand the difference between Apple and Google? Apple
sells products and *for Google you are the product*.

--
Prudentia potentia est

On Thu, 29 Jun 2023 22:32:13 -0700, The Real Bev wrote:

> I did that and hope that it removes them from the on-site list. For all
> I know google saves everything.

Well, I think every company makes backups. And then they make backups of
the backups. So, I guess, at some point, it's still there in a backup.

>> They then go on to tell you how to delete your google play store search
>> history also.
>
> History is useful, and its existence doesn't bother me.

One of the best ways to keep a history is to save the entire installation
setup (including homescreen folder and icon locations) to a backup file.

When you get a new phone, you just reload that homescreen folder and icon
location backup and then tap each "gray" icon until it turns into color.

>> The best way around all this is to simply not have a Google account set up
>> on the Android phone (it's easier not to have an account than to have one).
>
> No, google provides useful stuff to account-holders even if some of it
> is crippled. Contacts, saved addresses and locations, other stuff that
> I only remember when I want to use it...

Contacts can be imported and exported to and from a text file (vcard or csv
formats, for example) and then re-used on all sorts of devices & platforms.

> The feds already knows everything about me worth knowing.

Do you also kick the neighborhood dog when nobody is looking at you?

It's not much different to upload to Google servers other people's contact
information that you are privileged to know but which you don't protect.

> All google et
> al. can do with my info is try to sell me stuff, and if they want to
> waste money and resources on that it's fine with me.

What you're missing is that you are violating the trust of everyone around
you when you spread their contact information without their permission.

On 30 Jun 2023 at 3:21:09 AM, VanguardLH <V@nguard.LH> wrote:

>> Am 30.06.23 um 03:01 schrieb Mickey D:
>>> The best way around all this is to simply not have a Google account set up
>>> on the Android phone (it's easier not to have an account than to have one).
>>
>> Sorry that is nonsense. To use an Android device reasonably it is useful
>> to set up a Google-Account to just have this device and not to use it
>> for anything else. That is just what I do. If I hadn't a Google-Account
>> many useful things would be impossible and the device could be thrown
>> into the garbage. Waste of money.
>>
>> It is a total contradiction to buy an Android device and refuse to use a
>> Google Account. Then buy an iPhone or a Linux device if you can handle it.

Please do not respond to the trolls like Joerg Lorenz. First off, they
can't think for themselves. They only know what advertisers told them.

But secondly, as a result of only knowing what they saw in an Apple
advertisement, they don't know you're correct that EVERYTHING you do on an
iPhone is logged by Apple and saved forever (as far as anyone knows yet).

You can beg Apple for that information, but it's not easy to wipe out.
Apple also uses your personal information to feed you advertisements.

> The iPhones don't require an Apple account (aka Apple ID), like to use
> iCloud?

Almost everything on the iPhone REQUIRES you to be logged into Apple
servers while almost nothing on Android requires that login account.

That's the main difference between accounts on the two platforms.

On iOS, almost nothing works without you being logged into the walled
garden, while on Android everything still works without a Google Account.

> I suppose, for online storage, you could use Dropbox or Google
> Drive, but then you're just giving the same info, but to someone else.

When people say "online storage" what they really mean is someone else's
computer. Why would you want to store your data on someone's computer?

It may have made sense when phones had low amounts of storage.
And it may have made sense when computers had low amounts of storage.

But multi-terabyte USB NAS drives are less than a hundred bucks at Costco.

What smart people do nowadays is NOT store their data on someone else's
servers. Instead they store data on their router-connected home NAS drive.

> Can you use the iPhone's App Store without an Apple account?

No. You can not install an iPhone app without logging into Apple's servers.
Apple will keep, forever, a log of everything you've installed.

But it's much (much) worse than that.

You have no privacy on iOS since EVERY APP on the iPhone is tagged with
your personal identification - which is why even free apps won't work on
another iPhone (while free Android apps still work on any Android phone).

Every single time you run that app, there is a message sent to Apple
servers, which wouldn't keep this information if they didn't use it.

> won't you have to sideload every app you want on the iPhone.

You can't easily "sideload" on an non-jailbroken iPhone but you really
shouldn't call it sideloading since it's ONLY on the iOS platform that
loading an app from a developers' own web site is considered evil.

On every other platform, whether Linux or Android (or even macOS), the
"normal" way to load any app is to load it from the developers' web site.

The only other operating system that consumers use which makes it an evil
thing to get an app outside the developers' own web site is the Chrome OS.

> There are
> some bundled apps on the iPhone, but I don't see that suite of app as
> being sufficient for how anyone wants to use the iPhone.

At least on Android there is never a need to create a Google account.
On iOS, you must do almost everything through the Apple servers & account.

Apple does that for reasons specific to Apple but you know what they are.

You can jailbreak an iPhone but for most consumers, it's impossible to get
an app that you don't get by logging into the Apple App Store to get it.

Worse - all the apps you use are not only tagged with your personal
identifcation number, but Apple keeps track of everything constantly.

It's all done because you have to log into Apple servers and use Apple
accounts to get anything useful done on an iPhone - you can't avoid it.

And, better yet, at least free apps can be used on any Android phone
because they're not locked to your personal account like iOS apps are.

> If you forget
> your password, you can use iForgot, but that has you verify your account
> information to reset your password which means you must have an Apple
> account.

No. Apple has a new policy. You MUST present government ID if you want
ANYONE at Apple to unlock your device for you under ANY circumstances.

With Apple - you have no privacy.

> I'm not sure an iPhone without an Apple ID is any worse or better than
> for an Android phone without a Google account.

The problem with that statement is there is no equivalence.

It's like saying a person who has committed a hundred crimes against
humanity has the same credibility of someone who is a law abiding citizen.

There is no equivalence between running Android & iOS without an account
(not the least of the reasons being it's impossible to do with iOS but more
importantly being Android runs BETTER without the Google account on it).

I heard the Ukrainians complain recently that the Russians said they blew
the dam and the Ukrainians said they didn't and the news gave them
equivalence.

There is no equivalence between running an Android phone without having a
Google ID (which is actually EASIER than running it with an ID), versus
running an iPhone without having an Apple ID (which is impossible).

Do you use Windows 10?

How hard is it to run Windows 10 without a Microsoft login account?
Same with Android without a Google Account. Just hit the SKIP button.
--
Cheers, Rob

Am 30.06.23 um 11:42 schrieb RJH:
> On 30 Jun 2023 at 3:21:09 AM, VanguardLH <V@nguard.LH> wrote:
>
>>> Am 30.06.23 um 03:01 schrieb Mickey D:
>>>> The best way around all this is to simply not have a Google account set up
>>>> on the Android phone (it's easier not to have an account than to have one).
>>>
>>> Sorry that is nonsense. To use an Android device reasonably it is useful
>>> to set up a Google-Account to just have this device and not to use it
>>> for anything else. That is just what I do. If I hadn't a Google-Account
>>> many useful things would be impossible and the device could be thrown
>>> into the garbage. Waste of money.
>>>
>>> It is a total contradiction to buy an Android device and refuse to use a
>>> Google Account. Then buy an iPhone or a Linux device if you can handle it.
>
> Please do not respond to the trolls like Joerg Lorenz. First off, they
> can't think for themselves. They only know what advertisers told them.
>
> But secondly, as a result of only knowing what they saw in an Apple
> advertisement, they don't know you're correct that EVERYTHING you do on an
> iPhone is logged by Apple and saved forever (as far as anyone knows yet).

You reveal that you have not the slightest clue. Apple offers - the only
American company in this business - end to end encryption for all data.
But the way you act tells me you do not know what that means.

> You can beg Apple for that information, but it's not easy to wipe out.
> Apple also uses your personal information to feed you advertisements.

Again you show that you do not understand how the business models of
Google and Apple work.

--
Prudentia potentia est

Am 30.06.23 um 11:42 schrieb RJH:
> On 30 Jun 2023 at 3:21:09 AM, VanguardLH <V@nguard.LH> wrote:
>
>>> Am 30.06.23 um 03:01 schrieb Mickey D:
>>>> The best way around all this is to simply not have a Google account set up
>>>> on the Android phone (it's easier not to have an account than to have one).
>>>
>>> Sorry that is nonsense. To use an Android device reasonably it is useful
>>> to set up a Google-Account to just have this device and not to use it
>>> for anything else. That is just what I do. If I hadn't a Google-Account
>>> many useful things would be impossible and the device could be thrown
>>> into the garbage. Waste of money.
>>>
>>> It is a total contradiction to buy an Android device and refuse to use a
>>> Google Account. Then buy an iPhone or a Linux device if you can handle it.
>
> Please do not respond to the trolls like Joerg Lorenz. First off, they
> can't think for themselves. They only know what advertisers told them.
>
> But secondly, as a result of only knowing what they saw in an Apple
> advertisement, they don't know you're correct that EVERYTHING you do on an
> iPhone is logged by Apple and saved forever (as far as anyone knows yet).
>
> You can beg Apple for that information, but it's not easy to wipe out.
> Apple also uses your personal information to feed you advertisements.
>
>> The iPhones don't require an Apple account (aka Apple ID), like to use
>> iCloud?
>
> Almost everything on the iPhone REQUIRES you to be logged into Apple
> servers while almost nothing on Android requires that login account.
>
> That's the main difference between accounts on the two platforms.
>
> On iOS, almost nothing works without you being logged into the walled
> garden, while on Android everything still works without a Google Account.
>
>
>> I suppose, for online storage, you could use Dropbox or Google
>> Drive, but then you're just giving the same info, but to someone else.
>
> When people say "online storage" what they really mean is someone else's
> computer. Why would you want to store your data on someone's computer?
>
> It may have made sense when phones had low amounts of storage.
> And it may have made sense when computers had low amounts of storage.
>
> But multi-terabyte USB NAS drives are less than a hundred bucks at Costco.
>
> What smart people do nowadays is NOT store their data on someone else's
> servers. Instead they store data on their router-connected home NAS drive.
>
>> Can you use the iPhone's App Store without an Apple account?
>
> No. You can not install an iPhone app without logging into Apple's servers.
> Apple will keep, forever, a log of everything you've installed.
>
> But it's much (much) worse than that.
>
> You have no privacy on iOS since EVERY APP on the iPhone is tagged with
> your personal identification - which is why even free apps won't work on
> another iPhone (while free Android apps still work on any Android phone).
>
> Every single time you run that app, there is a message sent to Apple
> servers, which wouldn't keep this information if they didn't use it.
>
>> won't you have to sideload every app you want on the iPhone.
>
> You can't easily "sideload" on an non-jailbroken iPhone but you really
> shouldn't call it sideloading since it's ONLY on the iOS platform that
> loading an app from a developers' own web site is considered evil.
>
> On every other platform, whether Linux or Android (or even macOS), the
> "normal" way to load any app is to load it from the developers' web site.
>
> The only other operating system that consumers use which makes it an evil
> thing to get an app outside the developers' own web site is the Chrome OS.
>
>> There are
>> some bundled apps on the iPhone, but I don't see that suite of app as
>> being sufficient for how anyone wants to use the iPhone.
>
> At least on Android there is never a need to create a Google account.
> On iOS, you must do almost everything through the Apple servers & account.
>
> Apple does that for reasons specific to Apple but you know what they are.
>
> You can jailbreak an iPhone but for most consumers, it's impossible to get
> an app that you don't get by logging into the Apple App Store to get it.
>
> Worse - all the apps you use are not only tagged with your personal
> identifcation number, but Apple keeps track of everything constantly.
>
> It's all done because you have to log into Apple servers and use Apple
> accounts to get anything useful done on an iPhone - you can't avoid it.
>
> And, better yet, at least free apps can be used on any Android phone
> because they're not locked to your personal account like iOS apps are.
>
>> If you forget
>> your password, you can use iForgot, but that has you verify your account
>> information to reset your password which means you must have an Apple
>> account.
>
> No. Apple has a new policy. You MUST present government ID if you want
> ANYONE at Apple to unlock your device for you under ANY circumstances.
>
> With Apple - you have no privacy.
>
>> I'm not sure an iPhone without an Apple ID is any worse or better than
>> for an Android phone without a Google account.
>
> The problem with that statement is there is no equivalence.
>
> It's like saying a person who has committed a hundred crimes against
> humanity has the same credibility of someone who is a law abiding citizen.
>
> There is no equivalence between running Android & iOS without an account
> (not the least of the reasons being it's impossible to do with iOS but more
> importantly being Android runs BETTER without the Google account on it).
>
> I heard the Ukrainians complain recently that the Russians said they blew
> the dam and the Ukrainians said they didn't and the news gave them
> equivalence.
>
> There is no equivalence between running an Android phone without having a
> Google ID (which is actually EASIER than running it with an ID), versus
> running an iPhone without having an Apple ID (which is impossible).
>
> Do you use Windows 10?
>
> How hard is it to run Windows 10 without a Microsoft login account?
> Same with Android without a Google Account. Just hit the SKIP button.

Dummer Schwätzer.

--
Prudentia potentia est

Joerg Lorenz <hugybear@gmx.ch> wrote:

> Am 30.06.23 um 09:21 schrieb VanguardLH:
>> Joerg Lorenz <hugybear@gmx.ch> wrote:
>>
>>> Am 30.06.23 um 03:01 schrieb Mickey D:
>>>> The best way around all this is to simply not have a Google account set up
>>>> on the Android phone (it's easier not to have an account than to have one).
>>>
>>> Sorry that is nonsense. To use an Android device reasonably it is useful
>>> to set up a Google-Account to just have this device and not to use it
>>> for anything else. That is just what I do. If I hadn't a Google-Account
>>> many useful things would be impossible and the device could be thrown
>>> into the garbage. Waste of money.
>>>
>>> It is a total contradiction to buy an Android device and refuse to use a
>>> Google Account. Then buy an iPhone or a Linux device if you can handle it.
>>
>> The iPhones don't require an Apple account (aka Apple ID), like to use
>> iCloud? I suppose, for online storage, you could use Dropbox or Google
>> Drive, but then you're just giving the same info, but to someone else.
>
> Don't you understand the difference between Apple and Google? Apple
> sells products and *for Google you are the product*.

Not apropro to the statement I made to which you commented. I know you
just felt the need to opine, but your comment does not address whether
or not iPhones are usable without an Apple ID account.

>> Can you use the iPhone's App Store without an Apple account? If not,
>> won't you have to sideload every app you want on the iPhone. There are
>> some bundled apps on the iPhone, but I don't see that suite of app as
>> being sufficient for how anyone wants to use the iPhone. If you forget
>> your password, you can use iForgot, but that has you verify your account
>> information to reset your password which means you must have an Apple
>> account.
>>
>> I'm not sure an iPhone without an Apple ID is any worse or better than
>> for an Android phone without a Google account.
>
> Don't you understand the difference between Apple and Google? Apple
> sells products and *for Google you are the product*.

Take your meds.

On 30 Jun 2023 at 8:20:50 PM, VanguardLH <V@nguard.LH> wrote:

>> Don't you understand the difference between Apple and Google? Apple
>> sells products and *for Google you are the product*.
>
> Not apropro to the statement I made to which you commented. I know you
> just felt the need to opine, but your comment does not address whether
> or not iPhones are usable without an Apple ID account.

If you'd stop responding to that joerg troll you wouldn't have to explain
the most basic of the simplest things about iPhones - such as that fact.
>>> I'm not sure an iPhone without an Apple ID is any worse or better than
>>> for an Android phone without a Google account.
>>
>> Don't you understand the difference between Apple and Google? Apple
>> sells products and *for Google you are the product*.
>
> Take your meds.

The joerg troll doesn't know how either Android or iPhones work where you
can't do anything on an iPhone without logging into the Apple servers.

On Android the phone does exactly the same stuff with an account or without
an account - and remember that every app on the iPhone has your ID in it.

Even free apps have your id embedded into it which Apple logs every use of.
--
Cheers, Rob

RJH <patchmoney@gmx.com> wrote:

> Please do not respond to the trolls like Joerg Lorenz. First off, they
> can't think for themselves. They only know what advertisers told
> them.

Sometimes he's a troll, or just an imp, and can be antagonistic towards
anyone that doesn't agree with him or does it his way. However,
sometimes he provides useful information. For now, I don't hide his
posts (I don't delete crap poster, but ignore them, and use a default
view that hides ignore-flagged posts), but just colorize them to alert
me his post may be suspect.

> But secondly, as a result of only knowing what they saw in an Apple
> advertisement, they don't know you're correct that EVERYTHING you do
> on an iPhone is logged by Apple and saved forever (as far as anyone
> knows yet).
>
> You can beg Apple for that information, but it's not easy to wipe
> out. Apple also uses your personal information to feed you
> advertisements.
>
>> [VanguardLH] The iPhones don't require an Apple account (aka Apple ID), like to use
>> iCloud?
>
> Almost everything on the iPhone REQUIRES you to be logged into Apple
> servers while almost nothing on Android requires that login account.
>
> That's the main difference between accounts on the two platforms.
>
> On iOS, almost nothing works without you being logged into the walled
> garden, while on Android everything still works without a Google
> Account.
>
>> I suppose, for online storage, you could use Dropbox or Google
>> Drive, but then you're just giving the same info, but to someone else.
>
> When people say "online storage" what they really mean is someone
> else's computer. Why would you want to store your data on someone's
> computer?

I resist saying "cloud storage" since it is a nebulous concept to many
users, and hides what it really is. Besides, I don't consider the
Internet or Web a "cloud". The term is specially to obfuscate just how
the service operates. "storage on someone else's computer" could mean
FTP'ing to another computer, like my own on my intranet, to a backup
host elsewhere, or to anyone's FTP server. Online storage means just
that: storage that is accessed online (via networking, and typically not
on your own intranet).

Encrypt anything you consider sensitive information. Don't rely on your
login credentials, even with 2FA, to protect your data that's online.
If you don't encrypt it locally, then you don't have a reason to encrypt
it remotely. I use MS OneNote, and there is some sensitive info in some
note pages, but those are encrypted locally. So, anyone that hacks into
my MS account will end up finding an encrypted file. They'd have to get
past my strong login password, and then get past the encryption on
files. Not even I can log into my MS account to get at those files
until I decrypt them. Also consider that just because your sensitive
data is on local storage doesn't mean it is protected. If your data is
worthy of encryption in-situ and during transport then it is worthy of
encryption when stored locally, too.

> What smart people do nowadays is NOT store their data on someone
> else's servers. Instead they store data on their router-connected
> home NAS drive.

So, your data is insecure within the confines of your intranet.
Somewhat obviates using your own sFTP server at another physical
location to store your data. In either case, you should be encrypting
those files with highly sensitive data. Just because it's on your local
host doesn't make it safe from acquisition by others.

>> If you forget your password, you can use iForgot, but that has you
>> verify your account information to reset your password which means
>> you must have an Apple account.
>
> No. Apple has a new policy. You MUST present government ID if you
> want ANYONE at Apple to unlock your device for you under ANY
> circumstances.

Wow, like having to present "papers" to cross a border between states.
Reminds me of old WWII movies where everyone had to carry "papers"
showing identity and travel permission.

So, how does one present gov't ID to Apple? Fax it? Faxing is not
secure. You can buy encrypting FAX machines, but there has to be a
matching encrypting FAX machine at the receiving end which shares the
passkey with the sending machine. Secure FAXing is a rare thing. When
you send a fax, anyone can intercept it to read it. When the fax is
received, the paper goes into a bin that anyone could look at as they
stroll by. Very few users have x.509 certs installed into their e-mail
client, if their e-mail client even supports certs quite often because
free certs are rare, and free certs don't have adequate identity info
(just the sender's e-mail address, but no name, ID, or other unique info
on the sender), so the user cannot participate in secured e-mails. PGP
certs suck for identifying the sender. Some sites don't have you use
fax or email, but give you temporary use of their secure messaging
system: you connect via HTTPS, and use the one-time password that
expires soon to login to send the sensitive information. I've seen
medical institutions do it that way.

So, just how does Apple *securely* have you transfer a copy of your
gov't ID? I suspect transmission is not secure.

> There is no equivalence between running an Android phone without
> having a Google ID (which is actually EASIER than running it with an
> ID), versus running an iPhone without having an Apple ID (which is
> impossible).

Thanks for the clarification. When I saw Joerg indicate that an iPhone
doesn't need an Apple account, it just seemed wrong. I've only had one
Apple device, an iPad my HMO sent to me for free but which was severely
lockdown to be usable only with their services and docs. I couldn't
even put shortcuts on the home screen which was locked, so they had to
go on another screen. The iPad was useless without an Apple ID account.
I shipped the iPad back to the HMO. They provided the return shipping,
and I didn't want to just trash the iPad when someone else might think
it was great. I deleted all info, like the Apple ID, and hoped the HMO
would simply wipe the device by using a sysprep image before handing it
off to another user. Between the HMO's lockdown (managed) iPad, and the
Apple crap, I wasn't going to afflict myself with the crap.

Am 30.06.23 um 20:55 schrieb RJH:
> On 30 Jun 2023 at 8:20:50 PM, VanguardLH <V@nguard.LH> wrote:
>
>>> Don't you understand the difference between Apple and Google? Apple
>>> sells products and *for Google you are the product*.
>>
>> Not apropro to the statement I made to which you commented. I know you
>> just felt the need to opine, but your comment does not address whether
>> or not iPhones are usable without an Apple ID account.
>
> If you'd stop responding to that joerg troll you wouldn't have to explain
> the most basic of the simplest things about iPhones - such as that fact.
>
>>>> I'm not sure an iPhone without an Apple ID is any worse or better than
>>>> for an Android phone without a Google account.
>>>
>>> Don't you understand the difference between Apple and Google? Apple
>>> sells products and *for Google you are the product*.
>>
>> Take your meds.
>
> The joerg troll doesn't know how either Android or iPhones work where you
> can't do anything on an iPhone without logging into the Apple servers.
>
> On Android the phone does exactly the same stuff with an account or without
> an account - and remember that every app on the iPhone has your ID in it.
>
> Even free apps have your id embedded into it which Apple logs every use of.

I have no intention to discuss anything with anonymous and primitive
Trolls. It is obvious that you just want to spread fake news and FUD.

--
Prudentia potentia est

On 6/30/23 2:19 AM, Mickey D wrote:
> On Thu, 29 Jun 2023 22:32:13 -0700, The Real Bev wrote:
>
>> I did that and hope that it removes them from the on-site list. For all
>> I know google saves everything.
>
> Well, I think every company makes backups. And then they make backups of
> the backups. So, I guess, at some point, it's still there in a backup.
>
>>> They then go on to tell you how to delete your google play store search
>>> history also.
>>
>> History is useful, and its existence doesn't bother me.
>
> One of the best ways to keep a history is to save the entire installation
> setup (including homescreen folder and icon locations) to a backup file.
>
> When you get a new phone, you just reload that homescreen folder and icon
> location backup and then tap each "gray" icon until it turns into color.

Does that include all the personalization? The list of saved google map
locations and the fonts your text editor uses? When I turned on the
Pixel2 it asked me if I wanted to import the stuff from my previous
(Motorola) phone. I said sure. It took everything just the way I had
it. I was absolutely amazed. I think I needed an OTG cable, which I
should look for in my big box o' crap...

Supposedly google backs up my phone automatically. It may have
volunteered to do that and I saw no reason to object.

>>> The best way around all this is to simply not have a Google account set up
>>> on the Android phone (it's easier not to have an account than to have one).
>>
>> No, google provides useful stuff to account-holders even if some of it
>> is crippled. Contacts, saved addresses and locations, other stuff that
>> I only remember when I want to use it...
>
> Contacts can be imported and exported to and from a text file (vcard or csv
> formats, for example) and then re-used on all sorts of devices & platforms.

Vcard is devilspawn. TB uses it for its address book. All I want there
is name and email address, but there's god knows how much other useless
crap. If I want to print my addressbook it will be something like 700
pages. No. I can do a lot of manipulation and eventually print out
just what I want, but it shouldn't be that difficult.

>> The feds already knows everything about me worth knowing.
>
> Do you also kick the neighborhood dog when nobody is looking at you?

:-) No, I like dogs and would never even frown at one.

> It's not much different to upload to Google servers other people's contact
> information that you are privileged to know but which you don't protect.

Name and email address. Anyone who regards that as private information
now is sadly deluded.

>> All google et
>> al. can do with my info is try to sell me stuff, and if they want to
>> waste money and resources on that it's fine with me.
>
> What you're missing is that you are violating the trust of everyone around
> you when you spread their contact information without their permission.

Hey, I'm just returning the favor!

--
Cheers, Bev
"My life outside of USENET is so full of love and kindness that I have
to come here to find the venom and bile that I crave." --R. Damiani

On Fri, 30 Jun 2023 13:24:44 -0700, The Real Bev wrote:

>> When you get a new phone, you just reload that homescreen folder and icon
>> location backup and then tap each "gray" icon until it turns into color.
>
> Does that include all the personalization?

No. One text file is too easy and too simple for something that detailed.
It's just the entire homescreen setup - all the apps - and folders.
And all the locations for the apps and folders.

> The list of saved google map
> locations and the fonts your text editor uses? When I turned on the
> Pixel2 it asked me if I wanted to import the stuff from my previous
> (Motorola) phone. I said sure. It took everything just the way I had
> it. I was absolutely amazed. I think I needed an OTG cable, which I
> should look for in my big box o' crap...

For a complete backup, you can't beat what Google has designed for that.

> Supposedly google backs up my phone automatically. It may have
> volunteered to do that and I saw no reason to object.

Everyone has a different idea of what a 'full backup' entails.
Here are some apps which purport to do a 'more full' backup.
https://www.androidauthority.com/best-android-backup-apps-and-other-ways-too-608014/

Noticeably missing is Titanium Backup, which is the gold standard.
https://www.titaniumtrack.com/titanium-backup.html

But it requires being rooted.

>>>> The best way around all this is to simply not have a Google account set up
>>>> on the Android phone (it's easier not to have an account than to have one).
>>>
>>> No, google provides useful stuff to account-holders even if some of it
>>> is crippled. Contacts, saved addresses and locations, other stuff that
>>> I only remember when I want to use it...
>>
>> Contacts can be imported and exported to and from a text file (vcard or csv
>> formats, for example) and then re-used on all sorts of devices & platforms.
>
> Vcard is devilspawn. TB uses it for its address book. All I want there
> is name and email address, but there's god knows how much other useless
> crap. If I want to print my addressbook it will be something like 700
> pages. No. I can do a lot of manipulation and eventually print out
> just what I want, but it shouldn't be that difficult.

While vcard and ccv may very well be the spawn of the devil, the good news
is it's buried underground where you don't have to ever LOOK at it.

It's just a file. You import it. You export it.
You don't have to look at it.

>>> The feds already knows everything about me worth knowing.
>>
>> Do you also kick the neighborhood dog when nobody is looking at you?
>
> :-) No, I like dogs and would never even frown at one.

My point was that most people are inconsiderate to their friends & family
because they don't take any precautions to protect their contact data.

>> It's not much different to upload to Google servers other people's contact
>> information that you are privileged to know but which you don't protect.
>
> Name and email address. Anyone who regards that as private information
> now is sadly deluded.

No. Wrong. You have children in your contacts. Their phone numbers. Perhaps
their birthdays. Perhaps even their home address. Think of the children.

>>> All google et
>>> al. can do with my info is try to sell me stuff, and if they want to
>>> waste money and resources on that it's fine with me.
>>
>> What you're missing is that you are violating the trust of everyone around
>> you when you spread their contact information without their permission.
>
> Hey, I'm just returning the favor!

I understand most people don't care about other people's privacy.
I was simply trying to sensitize you to a more responsible level of action.

I think you understood.

On 30 Jun 2023 at 3:01:59 PM, VanguardLH <V@nguard.LH> wrote:

> Online storage means just
> that: storage that is accessed online (via networking, and typically not
> on your own intranet).

It's storage you have no control over.
It's storage that is the focus of determined hacks.
It's storage that may easily contain personal information about you.

Why bother when terabytes of local storage is extremely inexpensive today?

> Encrypt anything you consider sensitive information.

Veracrypt/Truecrypt (EDS on Android).
KeepassXC (Keepass-to-Android on Android).

> Also consider that just because your sensitive
> data is on local storage doesn't mean it is protected. If your data is
> worthy of encryption in-situ and during transport then it is worthy of
> encryption when stored locally, too.

As stated above, nothing is stored on your NAS that isn't encrypted.
The data is portable between all platforms, including Windows:Android.

>> What smart people do nowadays is NOT store their data on someone
>> else's servers. Instead they store data on their router-connected
>> home NAS drive.
>
> So, your data is insecure within the confines of your intranet.

See above. Veracrypt works fine. So does KeepassXC.

>> No. Apple has a new policy. You MUST present government ID if you
>> want ANYONE at Apple to unlock your device for you under ANY
>> circumstances.
>
> Wow, like having to present "papers" to cross a border between states.
> Reminds me of old WWII movies where everyone had to carry "papers"
> showing identity and travel permission.

Apple will NOT unlock an iOS device without GOVERNMENT issued ID.
There goes your privacy.

> So, how does one present gov't ID to Apple? Fax it?

Nope. You have to go into the store.
We could look it up but it made the news as it's a "new" policy
(as of something like a year or so ago). It made the news then.

> So, just how does Apple *securely* have you transfer a copy of your
> gov't ID? I suspect transmission is not secure.

You have to do it in person.
If you need to know more information we can google for Apple's policy.
>> There is no equivalence between running an Android phone without
>> having a Google ID (which is actually EASIER than running it with an
>> ID), versus running an iPhone without having an Apple ID (which is
>> impossible).
>
> Thanks for the clarification.

Think about it. You can't even use their messenger app or their facetime
app without logging into the Apple servers. You can't install an app
without logging into Apple servers. You can't do any of the walled garden
nice things without having an Apple account shared between devices.

The worst part is EVERY APP (even free apps!) are tagged with your ID.
Now why do you think Apple keeps track of every app and when you use it?

> When I saw Joerg indicate that an iPhone
> doesn't need an Apple account, it just seemed wrong.

I don't see anything from Joerg unless you quote him.
Nobody else responds to him (just look). Except you.
Everyone else has him "muted."

> I've only had one
> Apple device, an iPad my HMO sent to me for free but which was severely
> lockdown to be usable only with their services and docs. I couldn't
> even put shortcuts on the home screen which was locked, so they had to
> go on another screen. The iPad was useless without an Apple ID account.

Every iOS device is essentially useless without an Apple account.
Nothing works - not the text Messenger - not Facetime - not the App Store.

> I shipped the iPad back to the HMO. They provided the return shipping,
> and I didn't want to just trash the iPad when someone else might think
> it was great. I deleted all info, like the Apple ID, and hoped the HMO
> would simply wipe the device by using a sysprep image before handing it
> off to another user. Between the HMO's lockdown (managed) iPad, and the
> Apple crap, I wasn't going to afflict myself with the crap.

There is a certain kind of person who enjoys having someone else control
everything they do - those people are who the iPad/iPhone is made for.
--
Cheers, Rob

RJH <patchmoney@gmx.com> wrote:

> VanguardLH <V@nguard.LH> wrote:
>
>> Online storage means just that: storage that is accessed online (via
>> networking, and typically not on your own intranet).
>
> It's storage you have no control over.
> It's storage that is the focus of determined hacks.
> It's storage that may easily contain personal information about you.
>
> Why bother when terabytes of local storage is extremely inexpensive today?

I would have to go jump through hoops to define the file server, punch a
hole through my router's firewall, and use VNC, or similar, on both my
file server host and on the remote host provided that remote host wasn't
locked down. I've tried TeamViewer, and some others that rely on the
firewall defaulting to passing HTTPS traffic, but those are overkill,
plus the remote host could be locked down to disallow installing any
software. They could also disable the USB controllers, so no portable
software, either, which leaves back with web access. With web storage,
I can get at my data anywhere. With your scheme, I can only get at it
locally, or have to setup an Internet-accessible file server.

>> Encrypt anything you consider sensitive information.
>
> Veracrypt/Truecrypt (EDS on Android).

I use Veracrypt. Quit using Truecrypt when they posted a yellow canary,
and made the latest version read only. Luckily the code got picked up
by Veracrypt. I've never bothered with whole-disk encryption, and just
used encrypted containers that get mounted as drives.

> KeepassXC (Keepass-to-Android on Android).

So far, I don't need any software to remember the myriad of passwords
that I have that are unique per domain. I came up with an algorithm to
create passwords that I can memorize, along with 3 variants for sites
that are weird in the requirements how to define a password. If that
scheme falls down, yep, I'll have to look at a means of accessing my
passwords across multiple hosts on and off my network. I take it
KeepassXC is a variant of KeePass which doesn't support Android or iOS.

>> So, how does one present gov't ID to Apple?
>
> Nope. You have to go into the store. We could look it up but it made
> the news as it's a "new" policy (as of something like a year or so
> ago). It made the news then.

There are only 3 Apple stores in my metropolis of 3.7 million. None are
close. In fact, all their stores are located in my metropolis, so folks
elswhere in the state would have a very long drive. From their store
list, other than a couple states, the density of Apple stores is sparse.

>> When I saw Joerg indicate that an iPhone doesn't need an Apple
>> account, it just seemed wrong.
>
> I don't see anything from Joerg unless you quote him. Nobody else
> responds to him (just look). Except you. Everyone else has him
> "muted."

I'll check on that.

On 2023-07-01 04:04, Mickey D wrote:
> On Fri, 30 Jun 2023 13:24:44 -0700, The Real Bev wrote:
>
>>> When you get a new phone, you just reload that homescreen folder and icon
>>> location backup and then tap each "gray" icon until it turns into color.
>>
>> Does that include all the personalization?
>
> No. One text file is too easy and too simple for something that detailed.
> It's just the entire homescreen setup - all the apps - and folders.
> And all the locations for the apps and folders.
>
>> The list of saved google map
>> locations and the fonts your text editor uses? When I turned on the
>> Pixel2 it asked me if I wanted to import the stuff from my previous
>> (Motorola) phone. I said sure. It took everything just the way I had
>> it. I was absolutely amazed. I think I needed an OTG cable, which I
>> should look for in my big box o' crap...

This transference doesn't work from the backup, it is different. Ok, it
can use the existing backup, but it works taking the data, live, from
the previous phone, via BT+WiFi, or via special cable (that I do not
have). I suppose it is an USB-C to USB-C cable.

>
> For a complete backup, you can't beat what Google has designed for that.
>
>> Supposedly google backs up my phone automatically. It may have
>> volunteered to do that and I saw no reason to object.
>
> Everyone has a different idea of what a 'full backup' entails.
> Here are some apps which purport to do a 'more full' backup.
> https://www.androidauthority.com/best-android-backup-apps-and-other-ways-too-608014/
>
> Noticeably missing is Titanium Backup, which is the gold standard.
> https://www.titaniumtrack.com/titanium-backup.html
>
> But it requires being rooted.

Thus useless.

....

>
>>>> The feds already knows everything about me worth knowing.
>>>
>>> Do you also kick the neighborhood dog when nobody is looking at you?
>>
>> :-) No, I like dogs and would never even frown at one.
>
> My point was that most people are inconsiderate to their friends & family
> because they don't take any precautions to protect their contact data.
>
>>> It's not much different to upload to Google servers other people's contact
>>> information that you are privileged to know but which you don't protect.
>>
>> Name and email address. Anyone who regards that as private information
>> now is sadly deluded.
>
> No. Wrong. You have children in your contacts. Their phone numbers. Perhaps
> their birthdays. Perhaps even their home address. Think of the children.

And they are not published. Google has them but they don't publish that
data. Here they have to abide by the EU privacy laws, and they haven't
said anything about google having our contact list in their servers. The
only pending issue is that the servers must be in Europe and not shared
with the USA.

--
Cheers, Carlos.

On 2023-07-01 06:51, VanguardLH wrote:
> RJH <patchmoney@gmx.com> wrote:
>
>> VanguardLH <V@nguard.LH> wrote:

....

>> KeepassXC (Keepass-to-Android on Android).
>
> So far, I don't need any software to remember the myriad of passwords
> that I have that are unique per domain. I came up with an algorithm to
> create passwords that I can memorize, along with 3 variants for sites
> that are weird in the requirements how to define a password. If that
> scheme falls down, yep, I'll have to look at a means of accessing my
> passwords across multiple hosts on and off my network. I take it
> KeepassXC is a variant of KeePass which doesn't support Android or iOS.

I haven't tried, but there is an Android app.

https://keepassxc.org/download/

Macos, windows, linux, sourcecode

https://keepassxc.org/docs/

Does KeePassXC work on mobile phones? If not, which app would you recommend?

We don't have our own mobile app, but you can have the same
functionality on both Android and iOS!

For Android, we recommend KeePassDX and KeePass2Android.
And for iOS, we suggest Strongbox and KeePassium.

For KeePassXC, porting it properly to mobile platforms would require a
full rewrite. You may be able to compile KeePassXC for the mobile OS of
your choice, but it isn't at all optimized for mobile screen sizes and
form factors, let alone multi-touch input. We also don't see any
advantage in providing a mobile version of KeePassXC when there are
already excellent options.

--
Cheers, Carlos.

"Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:

> VanguardLH <V@nguard.LH> wrote:
>
>> So far, I don't need any software to remember the myriad of passwords
>> that I have that are unique per domain. I came up with an algorithm to
>> create passwords that I can memorize, along with 3 variants for sites
>> that are weird in the requirements how to define a password. If that
>> scheme falls down, yep, I'll have to look at a means of accessing my
>> passwords across multiple hosts on and off my network. I take it
>> KeepassXC is a variant of KeePass which doesn't support Android or iOS.
>
> I haven't tried, but there is an Android app.
>
> https://keepassxc.org/download/
>
> Macos, windows, linux, sourcecode
>
> https://keepassxc.org/docs/
>
> Does KeePassXC work on mobile phones? If not, which app would you recommend?
>
> We don't have our own mobile app, but you can have the same
> functionality on both Android and iOS!
>
> For Android, we recommend KeePassDX and KeePass2Android.
> And for iOS, we suggest Strongbox and KeePassium.
>
> For KeePassXC, porting it properly to mobile platforms would require a
> full rewrite. You may be able to compile KeePassXC for the mobile OS of
> your choice, but it isn't at all optimized for mobile screen sizes and
> form factors, let alone multi-touch input. We also don't see any
> advantage in providing a mobile version of KeePassXC when there are
> already excellent options.

KeePass: Windows only.
KeePassDX: Android only.
KeePassium: iOS only.

and several more ports of KeePass are listed on their download page:
https://keepass.info/download.html

Can all of these share the same vault, so your passwords would be
accessible on any platform? It would be highly inconvenient if the
online vault were separate for each port. If a unified or single vault
were employed, who is providing the online vault service? Is there just
one service provider, or many?

When the vault server is unreachable (routing problems, server down,
doing maintenance on server, or for whatever reason you cannot reach the
vault), is a local cache maintained of the passwords, so you still have
access to them without reaching the vault?

The Real Bev <bashley101@gmail.com> wrote:
> I can't even remember how I got there, but I know that google play has a
> record of every app I've installed on the devices I've used (2 tablets,
> 3 phones...) with the account I use for my phone. Even the ones I
> deleted. I seem to remember the entire list being installed on a new
> phone.

I think you remember incorrectly, because that should *not* happen.

> At this point there may be hundreds of unwanted apps in this
> list. I don't EVER want to have to delete all those unsatisfactory apps
> again -- and I suspect that they might even fill up the memory of
> whatever phone I buy next..

Not to worry, the 'list of uninstalled apps' (i.e. apps which you
installed at one time on *a* device under this Google account, but are
currently not installed on *this* device) will not be used to populate a
new phone.

Only the apps installed on the old phone will/might be installed on a
new phone, but only if you tell it to.

FWIW, I've moved from my first to my second to my current phone and in
these two moves, no 'uninstalled apps' were installed on the new
phone(s).

> 1. What is this list called and how do I get to it with either my
> computer or my phone? I've flailed around for half an hour with no success.

This has already been answered (by yourself?), but to be sure:

For Android 13 (might be different for other versions):

-> Play Store app -> your account icon in the upper right -> Manage
apps & device -> 'Manage' tab -> change the left drop
down from 'Installed' to 'Not installed' -> tick the boxes of the apps
which you want to remove from the 'Not installed' list (sadly I don't
see a way to select all) -> delete (trashcan icon in the upper right).

> 2. How do I delete forever from google's memory those apps I found
> unsatisfactory and deleted and NEVER want to even think about again? I
> shudder to think that google might think that restoring them all might
> be a good idea.

See above. AFAICT, they're gone, but with Google you never know! :-)