The guy who was looking to attack one of the Obamas, a couple days ago,
the one who came from Wasthington State.....He was live streaming. I
know they know the cell tower(s?) one's connected to, but can they tell
more than that, just using information from the cellular company?
There's no directionality or triangulation, is there?

So all they could know from the cell company is that he's within one
cell or ....within the intersection of 2 or 3 cells, rigth? So there
is still a square mile or more where he could be, right?

On 07/07/2023 23:28, micky wrote:
> The guy who was looking to attack one of the Obamas, a couple days ago,
> the one who came from Wasthington State.....He was live streaming. I
> know they know the cell tower(s?) one's connected to, but can they tell
> more than that, just using information from the cellular company?
> There's no directionality or triangulation, is there?
>
> So all they could know from the cell company is that he's within one
> cell or ....within the intersection of 2 or 3 cells, rigth? So there
> is still a square mile or more where he could be, right?

I don't know whether and, if so, how much information security forces
can obtain in real time from phone companies, which probably varies from
nation to nation anyway, but I can outline the general principles, which
are ...

Assuming for the moment ...

* what I believe is the case, but haven't bothered to check when writing
this so am laying myself open to correction by someone more
knowledgeable, that cell-towers do not have directional capability;

* rather unrealistically, that we are talking about a target on an open
plain where the signals are not attenuated or impeded by buildings, etc;

.... *IN PRINCIPLE* you should be able to get a pretty accurate idea of a
target's location by comparing the signal from 3 cell towers. The
strength of the signal at one tower would tell you that the target is a
given distance from it, so he could be anywhere on a circle of a given
radius with its centre at the tower, two towers would give you the
intersection of two circles, so two possible locations, but three should
nail him.

However, back in the real world of different strengths of signal from
different makes of phone, high-rise buildings, reflections off surfaces,
moving traffic, etc, I suspect it would be a lot more difficult than
that, but, like GPS, the more towers that can see the phone, the more
accurate should be the result.

--

Fake news kills!

I may be contacted via the contact address given on my website:
www.macfh.co.uk

On 2023-07-08 00:28, micky wrote:
> The guy who was looking to attack one of the Obamas, a couple days ago,
> the one who came from Wasthington State.....He was live streaming. I
> know they know the cell tower(s?) one's connected to, but can they tell
> more than that, just using information from the cellular company?
> There's no directionality or triangulation, is there?
>
> So all they could know from the cell company is that he's within one
> cell or ....within the intersection of 2 or 3 cells, rigth? So there
> is still a square mile or more where he could be, right?

The cellular company can find out the exact location with some accuracy,
depending on the terrain. How fast they can do this, in real time or as
a post process, is a different question.

They do this by triangulation. They know the signal strength at several
towers.

--
Cheers, Carlos.

"Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> writes:

> On 2023-07-08 00:28, micky wrote:
>> The guy who was looking to attack one of the Obamas, a couple days ago,
>> the one who came from Wasthington State.....He was live streaming. I
>> know they know the cell tower(s?) one's connected to, but can they tell
>> more than that, just using information from the cellular company?
>> There's no directionality or triangulation, is there?
>> So all they could know from the cell company is that he's within one
>> cell or ....within the intersection of 2 or 3 cells, rigth? So there
>> is still a square mile or more where he could be, right?
>
> The cellular company can find out the exact location with some
> accuracy, depending on the terrain. How fast they can do this, in real
> time or as a post process, is a different question.
>
>
> They do this by triangulation. They know the signal strength at
> several towers.

Speculating, but I assume if you're live-streaming via e.g. Facebook,
and the Facebook app has location permission, the cops could just ask
Facebook for the guy's location.

Would Facebook give that up if asked? Would they respond quickly? Do
they actually have the tools to grab somebody's location like that if
it's not attached to a post they've made? I obviously don't know any of
these things for sure, but if you gave Facebook location permissions,
they *could* in theory do it.

john

On 07/07/2023 23:28, micky wrote:
> The guy who was looking to attack one of the Obamas, a couple days ago,
> the one who came from Wasthington State.....He was live streaming. I
> know they know the cell tower(s?) one's connected to, but can they tell
> more than that, just using information from the cellular company?
> There's no directionality or triangulation, is there?
>
> So all they could know from the cell company is that he's within one
> cell or ....within the intersection of 2 or 3 cells, rigth? So there
> is still a square mile or more where he could be, right?

Is it possible that Wi-Fi and/or Bluetooth were active on his phone, and
his location could have been picked up from a router or another
cellphone close to his?

--

Jeff

micky <NONONOmisc07@fmguy.com> wrote:
> The guy who was looking to attack one of the Obamas, a couple days ago,
> the one who came from Wasthington State.....He was live streaming.

Any context for those of us not hooked into the latest threat?

> I
> know they know the cell tower(s?) one's connected to, but can they tell
> more than that, just using information from the cellular company?
> There's no directionality or triangulation, is there?
>
> So all they could know from the cell company is that he's within one
> cell or ....within the intersection of 2 or 3 cells, rigth? So there
> is still a square mile or more where he could be, right?

Any claims that an individual was tracked live *purely* from cell data is
utterly bogus. Even post hoc with the advantage of offline analytical tools
forensic specialists can't always be sure they can pinpoint a mobile phone.

Carlos E.R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
> On 2023-07-08 00:28, micky wrote:
>> The guy who was looking to attack one of the Obamas, a couple days ago,
>> the one who came from Wasthington State.....He was live streaming. I
>> know they know the cell tower(s?) one's connected to, but can they tell
>> more than that, just using information from the cellular company?
>> There's no directionality or triangulation, is there?
>>
>> So all they could know from the cell company is that he's within one
>> cell or ....within the intersection of 2 or 3 cells, rigth? So there
>> is still a square mile or more where he could be, right?
>
> The cellular company can find out the exact location with some accuracy,
> depending on the terrain. How fast they can do this, in real time or as
> a post process, is a different question.

It's next to impossible. Cellular data is designed purely for billing not
identification of a particular phone at a particular time by a particular
individual.

>
> They do this by triangulation. They know the signal strength at several
> towers.

No they don't. A phone only ever connects to one cell at a time, it may hop
between different cells during a call, but there's never any strength
information collected by the network.

Any strength information is collected after the fact by a specialised van
that tries to replicate a case scenario.

On 2023-07-08 02:22, John wrote:
> "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> writes:
>
>> On 2023-07-08 00:28, micky wrote:
>>> The guy who was looking to attack one of the Obamas, a couple days ago,
>>> the one who came from Wasthington State.....He was live streaming. I
>>> know they know the cell tower(s?) one's connected to, but can they tell
>>> more than that, just using information from the cellular company?
>>> There's no directionality or triangulation, is there?
>>> So all they could know from the cell company is that he's within one
>>> cell or ....within the intersection of 2 or 3 cells, rigth? So there
>>> is still a square mile or more where he could be, right?
>>
>> The cellular company can find out the exact location with some
>> accuracy, depending on the terrain. How fast they can do this, in real
>> time or as a post process, is a different question.
>>
>>
>> They do this by triangulation. They know the signal strength at
>> several towers.
>
> Speculating, but I assume if you're live-streaming via e.g. Facebook,
> and the Facebook app has location permission, the cops could just ask
> Facebook for the guy's location.
>
> Would Facebook give that up if asked? Would they respond quickly? Do
> they actually have the tools to grab somebody's location like that if
> it's not attached to a post they've made? I obviously don't know any of
> these things for sure, but if you gave Facebook location permissions,
> they *could* in theory do it.

Possibly, but I think they simply ask Google, because they store an
history of locations. It takes time, in theory, but depending on local
laws, they need a court order.

--
Cheers, Carlos.

On 2023-07-08 10:32, Chris wrote:
> Carlos E.R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
>> On 2023-07-08 00:28, micky wrote:
>>> The guy who was looking to attack one of the Obamas, a couple days ago,
>>> the one who came from Wasthington State.....He was live streaming. I
>>> know they know the cell tower(s?) one's connected to, but can they tell
>>> more than that, just using information from the cellular company?
>>> There's no directionality or triangulation, is there?
>>>
>>> So all they could know from the cell company is that he's within one
>>> cell or ....within the intersection of 2 or 3 cells, rigth? So there
>>> is still a square mile or more where he could be, right?
>>
>> The cellular company can find out the exact location with some accuracy,
>> depending on the terrain. How fast they can do this, in real time or as
>> a post process, is a different question.
>
> It's next to impossible. Cellular data is designed purely for billing not
> identification of a particular phone at a particular time by a particular
> individual.
>
>>
>> They do this by triangulation. They know the signal strength at several
>> towers.
>
> No they don't. A phone only ever connects to one cell at a time, it may hop
> between different cells during a call, but there's never any strength
> information collected by the network.
>
> Any strength information is collected after the fact by a specialised van
> that tries to replicate a case scenario.

LOL.

By saying this you have declared yourself as ignorant. It is well known
that the capability to do all that in realtime exists.

Plonk.

--
Cheers, Carlos.

On 2023-07-08 10:24, Chris wrote:
> micky <NONONOmisc07@fmguy.com> wrote:
>> The guy who was looking to attack one of the Obamas, a couple days ago,
>> the one who came from Wasthington State.....He was live streaming.
>
> Any context for those of us not hooked into the latest threat?
>
>> I
>> know they know the cell tower(s?) one's connected to, but can they tell
>> more than that, just using information from the cellular company?
>> There's no directionality or triangulation, is there?
>>
>> So all they could know from the cell company is that he's within one
>> cell or ....within the intersection of 2 or 3 cells, rigth? So there
>> is still a square mile or more where he could be, right?
>
> Any claims that an individual was tracked live *purely* from cell data is
> utterly bogus. Even post hoc with the advantage of offline analytical tools
> forensic specialists can't always be sure they can pinpoint a mobile phone.

LOL. Ignorant.

<https://www.iiiweb.net/forensic-services/cell-phone-tower-triangulation/>

Cell Tower Triangulation

Cell tower triangulation is similar to GPS tracking in many ways.
Multiple towers are used to track the phone’s location by measuring the
time delay that a signal takes to return back to the towers from the
phone. This delay is then calculated into distance and gives a fairly
accurate location of the phone. Detecting which antenna of the tower
the signal bounced off of can further refine the location. This gives a
more specific location when used congruently with multiple towers
calculated by multiple dishes on each tower. Cell phone companies do
this for a variety of reasons including enhancing the ability of the
E911 system. This system was put in place for 911 operators to get a
location of where a call from a cell phone is made from so that if
communication is lost, the operator would know where to dispatch help.
Cell tower triangulation is also used to provide the phone with the best
service by noting which tower it is closest to and using them to provide
service. Cell tower triangulation provides the ability to track the
historic location of the cell phone’s presence. It will then identify
where the cell phone was when receiving/making calls, texting, emailing,
etc.

Continues at the link.

<https://www.vestigeltd.com/resources/articles/cell-phone-tracking-evidence/>

Cell Phone Tracking Evidence
Vestige Logo
by Larry E. Daniel
DFCB

We live in a world today where individuals’ movements and locations are
being recorded in many different ways. These movements and locations are
commonly being used as evidence in civil, criminal and domestic
litigation. It is of paramount importance that anyone who is involved in
litigation that uses cellular location evidence understands the
appropriate and inappropriate use of this type of location data. Recent
decisions by some courts have made it possible for government agencies
to obtain real time tracking information using an individual’s cellular
phone or other cellular device without having to show probably cause or
obtain a search warrant.

Additionally, the government and courts continue to maintain the
position that obtaining historical call detail records for an individual
does not require probable cause or a warrant since the person holding
the cell phone is voluntarily providing their location data to a third
party, namely the cellular service provider. However, obtaining real
time geo-location of a cell phone via the emergency 911 (E911) system
still requires either a warrant or permission from the cellular carrier.

Cell phone forensics or cellular data analysis is the process of
collecting, analyzing and presenting the approximate location of a cell
phone or other cellular device based on data obtained from the wireless
company or in some rare cases, from the device itself.

There are several types of mobile cell phone tracking data that can be
collected and examined:

* Carrier based location data is collected by obtaining historical
call detail records for a particular phone from the cellular carrier
along with a listing of the cell tower locations for that carrier. This
mobile data is then analyzed for the purpose of generally placing a cell
phone in a location on a map.

* Cellular data in the form of “pings”, which is real time
geo-location tracking of a cellular phone or other cellular device by
activating the emergency 911 system (E911), which will then use either a
network based or handset based method for locating the phone and will
provide a location estimate generated via triangulation of the phone
handset.

* Law enforcement may issue a warrant to get real-time call detail
activity for a phone. This is the same type of data contained in a
historical call detail record but is provided in real time. Cellular
data may come from the device itself in the form of GPS location data
either from an application running on the phone, a geo-tagged picture or
some other data point.

What is important to understand about tracking a cell phone location or
other cellular device is that the accuracy of the geo-location is
dependent on a number of factors, not the least of which is the ability
of the analyst to properly interpret and present the data and the
methods used to present the information.

Continues at the link.

--
Cheers, Carlos.

On 2023-07-08 01:53, Java Jive wrote:
> On 07/07/2023 23:28, micky wrote:
>> The guy who was looking to attack one of the Obamas, a couple days ago,
>> the one who came from Wasthington State.....He was live streaming.  I
>> know they know the cell tower(s?) one's connected to, but can they tell
>> more than that, just using information from the cellular company?
>> There's no directionality or triangulation, is there?
>>
>> So all they could know from the cell company is that he's within one
>> cell or ....within the intersection of 2 or 3 cells, rigth?   So there
>> is still a square mile or more where he could be, right?
>
> I don't know whether and, if so, how much information security forces
> can obtain in real time from phone companies, which probably varies from
> nation to nation anyway, but I can outline the general principles, which
> are ...
>
> Assuming for the moment ...
>
> * what I believe is the case, but haven't bothered to check when writing
> this so am laying myself open to correction by someone more
> knowledgeable, that cell-towers do not have directional capability;
>
> * rather unrealistically, that we are talking about a target on an open
> plain where the signals are not attenuated or impeded by buildings, etc;
>
> ... *IN PRINCIPLE* you should be able to get a pretty accurate idea of a
> target's location by comparing the signal from 3 cell towers.  The
> strength of the signal at one tower would tell you that the target is a
> given distance from it, so he could be anywhere on a circle of a given
> radius with its centre at the tower, two towers would give you the
> intersection of two circles, so two possible locations, but three should
> nail him.
>
> However, back in the real world of different strengths of signal from
> different makes of phone, high-rise buildings, reflections off surfaces,
> moving traffic, etc, I suspect it would be a lot more difficult than
> that, but, like GPS, the more towers that can see the phone, the more
> accurate should be the result.

You are basically correct.

People may remember that maybe ten years ago, Android phones could have
something called "rough location" or some similar wording. In this mode,
the GPS chip was disabled, but the phone could still get a location. Its
accuracy was surprisingly good, and it worked from tower triangulation
as you describe.

Currently Android disables this adjustment: you either have location
enabled, or not at all. If enabled, the phone uses all methods its
hardware supports.

Notice that if the phone has location disabled, the cellular network
still can locate you, just that instead of asking the phone, it has to
query data collected by the towers (and no GPS). Apparently, this is
used by emergency systems in real time to obtain the location of any
emergency caller, it is called E911 system or E112 system.

<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enhanced_9-1-1>
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/112_(emergency_telephone_number)#E112>
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Advanced_Mobile_Location>

--
Cheers, Carlos.

On 7/8/23 04:35, Carlos E.R. wrote:

> Notice that if the phone has location disabled, the cellular network
> still can locate you, just that instead of asking the phone, it has
> to query data collected by the towers (and no GPS).

Is it possible for a carrier to query the phone's built-in location
services? I would hope not, as that should be something that would
require software running on the phone for this purpose, plus the usual
user-provided permissions.

On 2023-07-08 18:54, Arnold Knight wrote:
> On 7/8/23 04:35, Carlos E.R. wrote:
>
>> Notice that if the phone has location disabled, the cellular network
>> still can locate you, just that instead of asking the phone, it has to
>> query data collected by the towers (and no GPS).
>
> Is it possible for a carrier to query the phone's built-in location
> services? I would hope not, as that should be something that would
> require software running on the phone for this purpose, plus the usual
> user-provided permissions.

I don't think so, but I have no authoritative information on this. Also,
there are many different laws per country.

The "code" would have to be stored on the SIM card initially, then run
internally perhaps as part of the setup. A different thing are phones
bought from the Telco, which can customize them.

--
Cheers,
Carlos E.R.

In comp.mobile.android, on Sat, 8 Jul 2023 13:13:35 +0200, "Carlos E.R."
<robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:

>On 2023-07-08 02:22, John wrote:
>> "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> writes:
>>
>>> On 2023-07-08 00:28, micky wrote:
>>>> The guy who was looking to attack one of the Obamas, a couple days ago,
>>>> the one who came from Wasthington State.....He was live streaming. I
>>>> know they know the cell tower(s?) one's connected to, but can they tell
>>>> more than that, just using information from the cellular company?
>>>> There's no directionality or triangulation, is there?
>>>> So all they could know from the cell company is that he's within one
>>>> cell or ....within the intersection of 2 or 3 cells, rigth? So there
>>>> is still a square mile or more where he could be, right?
>>>
>>> The cellular company can find out the exact location with some
>>> accuracy, depending on the terrain. How fast they can do this, in real
>>> time or as a post process, is a different question.
>>>
>>>
>>> They do this by triangulation. They know the signal strength at
>>> several towers.
>>
>> Speculating, but I assume if you're live-streaming via e.g. Facebook,
>> and the Facebook app has location permission, the cops could just ask
>> Facebook for the guy's location.
>>
>> Would Facebook give that up if asked? Would they respond quickly? Do
>> they actually have the tools to grab somebody's location like that if
>> it's not attached to a post they've made? I obviously don't know any of
>> these things for sure, but if you gave Facebook location permissions,
>> they *could* in theory do it.

RWIW, i never give location permission unless I can think of a good
reason they need to know it. And half of the sites ask, for what
reason I can only guess.... Do they want to be ablle to say "We have
readers in 43 states."
>
>Possibly, but I think they simply ask Google, because they store an
>history of locations. It takes time, in theory, but depending on local
>laws, they need a court order.

Mostly from TV but still I get the impression that in some or all US
state, they can ask for a court order over the phone now. Or maybe
someone is always there but the person providing the evidence is on the
phone. And that even for an in-person search, the warrant can be "on the
way" to wherever the search is, if it really is on the way.

In this guy's case he drove from Washington state, a 41 hour drive. I
don't know if he was streaming all the way or how long it took them to
take him seriously.

On 2023-07-08 22:34, micky wrote:
> In comp.mobile.android, on Sat, 8 Jul 2023 13:13:35 +0200, "Carlos E.R."
> <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
>
>> On 2023-07-08 02:22, John wrote:
>>> "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> writes:
>>>
>>>> On 2023-07-08 00:28, micky wrote:

....

>>> Would Facebook give that up if asked? Would they respond quickly? Do
>>> they actually have the tools to grab somebody's location like that if
>>> it's not attached to a post they've made? I obviously don't know any of
>>> these things for sure, but if you gave Facebook location permissions,
>>> they *could* in theory do it.
>
> RWIW, i never give location permission unless I can think of a good
> reason they need to know it. And half of the sites ask, for what
> reason I can only guess.... Do they want to be ablle to say "We have
> readers in 43 states."

Well, the obvious reason is to show commercials to you that are valid
for your location. Commercials tailored to the people that view them are
worth serious money.

....

--
Cheers,
Carlos E.R.

Carlos E.R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
> On 2023-07-08 10:32, Chris wrote:
>> Carlos E.R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
>>> On 2023-07-08 00:28, micky wrote:
>>>> The guy who was looking to attack one of the Obamas, a couple days ago,
>>>> the one who came from Wasthington State.....He was live streaming. I
>>>> know they know the cell tower(s?) one's connected to, but can they tell
>>>> more than that, just using information from the cellular company?
>>>> There's no directionality or triangulation, is there?
>>>>
>>>> So all they could know from the cell company is that he's within one
>>>> cell or ....within the intersection of 2 or 3 cells, rigth? So there
>>>> is still a square mile or more where he could be, right?
>>>
>>> The cellular company can find out the exact location with some accuracy,
>>> depending on the terrain. How fast they can do this, in real time or as
>>> a post process, is a different question.
>>
>> It's next to impossible. Cellular data is designed purely for billing not
>> identification of a particular phone at a particular time by a particular
>> individual.
>>
>>>
>>> They do this by triangulation. They know the signal strength at several
>>> towers.
>>
>> No they don't. A phone only ever connects to one cell at a time, it may hop
>> between different cells during a call, but there's never any strength
>> information collected by the network.
>>
>> Any strength information is collected after the fact by a specialised van
>> that tries to replicate a case scenario.
>
> LOL.
>
> By saying this you have declared yourself as ignorant. It is well known
> that the capability to do all that in realtime exists.

Let me know when you've worked with forensic scientists like I have. The
technology is surprisingly basic.

Carlos E.R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
> On 2023-07-08 10:24, Chris wrote:
>> micky <NONONOmisc07@fmguy.com> wrote:
>>> The guy who was looking to attack one of the Obamas, a couple days ago,
>>> the one who came from Wasthington State.....He was live streaming.
>>
>> Any context for those of us not hooked into the latest threat?
>>
>>> I
>>> know they know the cell tower(s?) one's connected to, but can they tell
>>> more than that, just using information from the cellular company?
>>> There's no directionality or triangulation, is there?
>>>
>>> So all they could know from the cell company is that he's within one
>>> cell or ....within the intersection of 2 or 3 cells, rigth? So there
>>> is still a square mile or more where he could be, right?
>>
>> Any claims that an individual was tracked live *purely* from cell data is
>> utterly bogus. Even post hoc with the advantage of offline analytical tools
>> forensic specialists can't always be sure they can pinpoint a mobile phone.
>
> LOL. Ignorant.
>
> <https://www.iiiweb.net/forensic-services/cell-phone-tower-triangulation/>

LOL. You believe what is effectively an advert for a company. Of course
they're going to give a nice story.

Try some facts from a paper published last year:

"It was found that individual follow-on GPRS/mobile data call detail
records (CDRs) cannot consistently place a device within the coverage area
of the start Cell ID at the start time of the CDR."

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1355030622000211

>
> <https://www.vestigeltd.com/resources/articles/cell-phone-tracking-evidence/>
>
> Cell Phone Tracking Evidence
> Vestige Logo
> by Larry E. Daniel
> DFCB

> Cell phone forensics or cellular data analysis is the process of
> collecting, analyzing and presenting the approximate location of a cell
> phone or other cellular device based on data obtained from the wireless
> company or in some rare cases, from the device itself.

Note the use of the word "approximate".

> There are several types of mobile cell phone tracking data that can be
> collected and examined:
>
> * Carrier based location data is collected by obtaining historical
> call detail records for a particular phone from the cellular carrier
> along with a listing of the cell tower locations for that carrier. This
> mobile data is then analyzed for the purpose of generally placing a cell
> phone in a location on a map.
>
> * Cellular data in the form of “pings”, which is real time
> geo-location tracking of a cellular phone or other cellular device by
> activating the emergency 911 system (E911), which will then use either a
> network based or handset based method for locating the phone and will
> provide a location estimate generated via triangulation of the phone
> handset.
>
> * Law enforcement may issue a warrant to get real-time call detail
> activity for a phone. This is the same type of data contained in a
> historical call detail record but is provided in real time. Cellular
> data may come from the device itself in the form of GPS location data
> either from an application running on the phone, a geo-tagged picture or
> some other data point.
>
> What is important to understand about tracking a cell phone location or
> other cellular device is that the accuracy of the geo-location is
> dependent on a number of factors, not the least of which is the ability
> of the analyst to properly interpret and present the data and the
> methods used to present the information.

This last paragraph is critical. Everything above it are potential avenues
for information, but it comes down to having the right data at the right
time which isn't always possible. Thus mobile cell data will always be
circumstantial evidence and not categorical proof of anything.

On 2023-07-08 23:06, Chris wrote:
> Carlos E.R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
>> On 2023-07-08 10:32, Chris wrote:
>>> Carlos E.R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
>>>> On 2023-07-08 00:28, micky wrote:
>>>>> The guy who was looking to attack one of the Obamas, a couple days ago,
>>>>> the one who came from Wasthington State.....He was live streaming. I
>>>>> know they know the cell tower(s?) one's connected to, but can they tell
>>>>> more than that, just using information from the cellular company?
>>>>> There's no directionality or triangulation, is there?
>>>>>
>>>>> So all they could know from the cell company is that he's within one
>>>>> cell or ....within the intersection of 2 or 3 cells, rigth? So there
>>>>> is still a square mile or more where he could be, right?
>>>>
>>>> The cellular company can find out the exact location with some accuracy,
>>>> depending on the terrain. How fast they can do this, in real time or as
>>>> a post process, is a different question.
>>>
>>> It's next to impossible. Cellular data is designed purely for billing not
>>> identification of a particular phone at a particular time by a particular
>>> individual.
>>>
>>>>
>>>> They do this by triangulation. They know the signal strength at several
>>>> towers.
>>>
>>> No they don't. A phone only ever connects to one cell at a time, it may hop
>>> between different cells during a call, but there's never any strength
>>> information collected by the network.
>>>
>>> Any strength information is collected after the fact by a specialised van
>>> that tries to replicate a case scenario.
>>
>> LOL.
>>
>> By saying this you have declared yourself as ignorant. It is well known
>> that the capability to do all that in realtime exists.
>
> Let me know when you've worked with forensic scientists like I have. The
> technology is surprisingly basic.

And I worked at a Telco.

--
Cheers, Carlos.

Am 09.07.23 um 02:38 schrieb Carlos E.R.:
> On 2023-07-08 23:06, Chris wrote:
>> Let me know when you've worked with forensic scientists like I have. The
>> technology is surprisingly basic.
>
> And I worked at a Telco.

Mine is bigger than yours!

*SCNR*

--
Prudentia potentia est

Am 09.07.23 um 08:16 schrieb Joerg Lorenz:
> Am 09.07.23 um 02:38 schrieb Carlos E.R.:
>> On 2023-07-08 23:06, Chris wrote:
>>> Let me know when you've worked with forensic scientists like I have. The
>>> technology is surprisingly basic.
>>
>> And I worked at a Telco.
>
> Mine is bigger than yours!
>
> *SCNR*

My iPhone of course!

--
Prudentia potentia est

Carlos E.R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
> On 2023-07-08 23:06, Chris wrote:
>> Carlos E.R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
>>> On 2023-07-08 10:32, Chris wrote:
>>>> Carlos E.R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
>>>>> On 2023-07-08 00:28, micky wrote:
>>>>>> The guy who was looking to attack one of the Obamas, a couple days ago,
>>>>>> the one who came from Wasthington State.....He was live streaming. I
>>>>>> know they know the cell tower(s?) one's connected to, but can they tell
>>>>>> more than that, just using information from the cellular company?
>>>>>> There's no directionality or triangulation, is there?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> So all they could know from the cell company is that he's within one
>>>>>> cell or ....within the intersection of 2 or 3 cells, rigth? So there
>>>>>> is still a square mile or more where he could be, right?
>>>>>
>>>>> The cellular company can find out the exact location with some accuracy,
>>>>> depending on the terrain. How fast they can do this, in real time or as
>>>>> a post process, is a different question.
>>>>
>>>> It's next to impossible. Cellular data is designed purely for billing not
>>>> identification of a particular phone at a particular time by a particular
>>>> individual.
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> They do this by triangulation. They know the signal strength at several
>>>>> towers.
>>>>
>>>> No they don't. A phone only ever connects to one cell at a time, it may hop
>>>> between different cells during a call, but there's never any strength
>>>> information collected by the network.
>>>>
>>>> Any strength information is collected after the fact by a specialised van
>>>> that tries to replicate a case scenario.
>>>
>>> LOL.
>>>
>>> By saying this you have declared yourself as ignorant. It is well known
>>> that the capability to do all that in realtime exists.
>>
>> Let me know when you've worked with forensic scientists like I have. The
>> technology is surprisingly basic.
>
> And I worked at a Telco.

So do thousands of people. Doesn't mean they know how billing data are used
forensically.

I was stunned at how unreliable it was in reality.