I've so far avoided using Google Pay, or anything like it. Should I
reconsider?

What are the advantages of using it? What are the disadvantages?
Especially what are the security risks if my phone is lost or stolen?

If it might be a good idea to use something like this, should I choose
Google Play or something else? Why?

And a relatively minor question--do these work outside of the
US--especially in Italy, where I'll be for a couple of weeks in
November?

On 09/07/2023 15:20, Ken Blake wrote:
> I've so far avoided using Google Pay, or anything like it. Should I
> reconsider?
>
> What are the advantages of using it? What are the disadvantages?
> Especially what are the security risks if my phone is lost or stolen?
>
> If it might be a good idea to use something like this, should I choose
> Google Play or something else? Why?
>
> And a relatively minor question--do these work outside of the
> US--especially in Italy, where I'll be for a couple of weeks in
> November?

It certainly works outside the USA - I'm using it in UK. I'm pretty sure
that I've used it in the Netherlands too - so Italy is probably ok.

My view is that it's safer than carrying a contactless card. If your
card is lost or stolen, the finder can make a number of transactions -
each up to 100GB£ in the UK - without needing to know the PIN. However,
anyone who finds your phone will need to turn it on - requiring a PIN or
face recognition or fingerprint - before they can use Google Pay.
--
Cheers,
Roger

On 7/9/2023 7:20 AM, Ken Blake wrote:
> I've so far avoided using Google Pay, or anything like it. Should I
> reconsider?
>
> What are the advantages of using it? What are the disadvantages?
> Especially what are the security risks if my phone is lost or stolen?
>
> If it might be a good idea to use something like this, should I choose
> Google Play or something else? Why?
>
> And a relatively minor question--do these work outside of the
> US--especially in Italy, where I'll be for a couple of weeks in
> November?

I used Google Pay and Apple Pay extensively in Italy in 2019. In Milan,
I was looking for some Euro coins for the pay toilet at the Duomo but it
ended up being unnecessary since the toilets took Apple Pay and Google
Pay! We used very little cash in Italy since nearly every place we went
had NFC payments, either via a phone or a credit card.

Of course make sure that your credit cards don't have any foreign
transaction fees and that for cash you have a Schwab 1 debit card which
rebates all ATM fees worldwide and has no minimum balance requirement.

One big advantage to me of Apple Pay and Google Pay is that I have a
Visa card (US Bank Altitude Visa) that gives 3% cash back on all mobile
wallet transactions. 3% flat rate cash back is unusual for credit cards,
there was one other one from a credit union but it has been
discontinued. It has a net annual fee of $75 (after a $325 yearly credit
for dining and travel) but the extra 1% cash back makes up for that. It
also gives you four Priority Pass lounge visits (for 2) or a big credit
at some airport restaurants if there is no PP lounge. Also it is
_primary_ rental car insurance not secondary. Also it pays for TSA
Precheck or Global Entry (get the latter since it includes TSA Precheck,
it's just more of a hassle to sign up). It also gives one extra year of
warranty protection which is useful now that the Citibank Costco Visa
dropped extended warranty protection.

In 2019 it was pre-Brexit and I got UK Vodafone SIM cards, in advance,
with 500MB per day of data for €1 per day but that deal is long gone. It
was very useful to have high-speed data as soon as we arrived. Download
Moovit.

--
“If you are not an expert on a subject, then your opinions about it
really do matter less than the opinions of experts. It's not
indoctrination nor elitism. It's just that you don't know as much as
they do about the subject.”—Tin Foil Awards

Am 09.07.23 um 16:20 schrieb Ken Blake:
> I've so far avoided using Google Pay, or anything like it. Should I
> reconsider?

What are you missing? Why do you think it could improve your life?

> What are the advantages of using it? What are the disadvantages?
> Especially what are the security risks if my phone is lost or stolen?
>
> If it might be a good idea to use something like this, should I choose
> Google Play or something else? Why?
>
> And a relatively minor question--do these work outside of the
> US--especially in Italy, where I'll be for a couple of weeks in
> November?

AFAIK it does. But your credit card will work too. Cash works and debit
cards as well.

--
Faber est suae quisque fortunae

On 7/9/23 9:13 AM, sms wrote:
> .... Also it is
> _primary_ rental car insurance not secondary. Also it pays for TSA
> Precheck or Global Entry (get the latter since it includes TSA Precheck,
> it's just more of a hassle to sign up). It also gives one extra year of
> warranty protection which is useful now that the Citibank Costco Visa
> dropped extended warranty protection.

Damn, shit happens when you aren't paying attention.

I went searching, but it's frustrating. Apparently no credit cards
offer the free rental car insurance that they used to or the extra
warranty.

I'm really unwilling to put anything on my unprotected phone that would
be more than a nuisance if it were lost or stolen. Having to do
something every time I revive my blanked-after-a-minute screen is more
trouble than I'm willing to go to -- it's bad enough having to push a
button!

Last time I looked (maybe 3 months ago) Costco claimed to offer an
additional year warranty on <stuff> but I didn't notice whether that was
linked to the card or just to Costco itself.

US Bank offers 5% back on utility payments and fast food, but you have
to sign up every 3 months. Same bonus categories for years.

--
Cheers, Bev

On 7/9/2023 12:12 PM, Roger Mills wrote:
> On 09/07/2023 15:20, Ken Blake wrote:
>> I've so far avoided using Google Pay, or anything like it. Should I
>> reconsider?
>>
>> What are the advantages of using it? What are the disadvantages?
>> Especially what are the security risks if my phone is lost or stolen?
>>
>> If it might be a good idea to use something like this, should I choose
>> Google Play or something else? Why?
>>
>> And a relatively minor question--do these work outside of the
>> US--especially in Italy, where I'll be for a couple of weeks in
>> November?
>
>
> It certainly works outside the USA - I'm using it in UK. I'm pretty sure
> that I've used it in the Netherlands too - so Italy is probably ok.
>
> My view is that it's safer than carrying a contactless card. If your card
> is lost or stolen, the finder can make a number of transactions - each up
> to 100GB£ in the UK - without needing to know the PIN. However, anyone who
> finds your phone will need to turn it on - requiring a PIN or face
> recognition or fingerprint - before they can use Google Pay.

My recent experience in the UK (Wales, NI, Scotland) is that you are more
likely to find contactless (card or phone) accepted nearly everywhere while
many establishments flatly refuse to accept cash. Even street vendors were
wired. I found the same thing in Amsterdam. The bar in my hotel in Belfast
had prominent signs as I entered declining to accept cash. Luckily they
took GPay so I could stay lubricated.

My take is that it is more secure than using your chip card outright. This
is especially useful since my backward US bank refuses to give me a PIN so
the alternate chip and pin is useless to me in the UK.

On 7/9/2023 12:13 PM, Joerg Lorenz wrote:
> Am 09.07.23 um 16:20 schrieb Ken Blake:
>> I've so far avoided using Google Pay, or anything like it. Should I
>> reconsider?
>
> What are you missing? Why do you think it could improve your life?
>
>> What are the advantages of using it? What are the disadvantages?
>> Especially what are the security risks if my phone is lost or stolen?
>>
>> If it might be a good idea to use something like this, should I choose
>> Google Play or something else? Why?
>>
>> And a relatively minor question--do these work outside of the
>> US--especially in Italy, where I'll be for a couple of weeks in
>> November?
>
> AFAIK it does. But your credit card will work too. Cash works and debit
> cards as well.
>

You might find that in the UK at least cash is flatly refused in many
establishments or so I found in my travels. I dutifully went to my bank and
got around $750 worth of pounds sterling before my trip last Autumn to
Wales but I spent almost none of it since everybody seemed to expect
contactless. This Spring I went to NI and Scotland and the same thing
happened. I still have at least $500 worth of pounds in my passport in the
safe and don't know when I'll ever use it up. Same thing with Euros -- I
still have a stash of them in the safe since cash is frowned upon in many
places. I've got to admit that I've gotten used to this method of payment
and am glad to see that more companies here are taking it up -- even my
stodgy local grocery has caught up with the times.

"Bodger" <nobody@nowh.ere> wrote
| | You might find that in the UK at least cash is flatly refused in many
| establishments or so I found in my travels.

Interesting. Another good reason not to visit the UK.
(The first being that my flight would surely be cancelled. :)

I'm surprised that it's legal to refuse cash. There are several
places in the US where accepting cash has long been
required, and more places are moving that way... Just
in time to prevent Amazon building cash-less
supermarkets.

I rarely use anything but cash for anything. It's cheaper, less
risky, better privacy and doesn't line the pockets of sleazy bank
middlemen who don't work for their cut. Where I have to use a
card I do and I get cash back. But I try to avoid it where possible.
I'd never use a debit card or phone payment system. That's
just handing a kickback to Square, Apple, Google or some such
for no reason.

This makes me wonder about the legal issues. I expect we'll
have to face those at some point. What about poor people who
can't afford bank accounts? What about the federal law printed
on bills that says they're legal tender for all debts? I don't
see how a public store or restaurant can legally refuse cash.

In article <u8emaf$25vdf$1@dont-email.me>, sms
<scharf.steven@geemail.com> wrote:

> Of course make sure that your credit cards don't have any foreign
> transaction fees and that for cash you have a Schwab 1 debit card which
> rebates all ATM fees worldwide and has no minimum balance requirement.

most banks refund atm fees.

> One big advantage to me of Apple Pay and Google Pay is that I have a
> Visa card (US Bank Altitude Visa) that gives 3% cash back on all mobile
> wallet transactions.

that particular card has a $400 annual fee.

> 3% flat rate cash back is unusual for credit cards,
> there was one other one from a credit union but it has been
> discontinued. It has a net annual fee of $75 (after a $325 yearly credit
> for dining and travel)

it's only a net $75 *if* all of the travel credit is used.

but even then, someone would have to spend $7500 a year to break even
versus a 2% card on everything, with no annual fees.

In article <u8eo22$265df$1@dont-email.me>, The Real Bev
<bashley101@gmail.com> wrote:

> I went searching, but it's frustrating. Apparently no credit cards
> offer the free rental car insurance that they used to or the extra
> warranty.

many cards offer car rental car insurance and extended warranty,
although not as many as before.

usually car rental insurance is secondary coverage (for anything your
own car insurance doesn't pay) but some cards offer primary coverage
(the card pays for everything, personal insurance not involved).

In article <u8euko$8hs7$1@paganini.bofh.team>, Newyana2
<Newyana2@invalid.nospam> wrote:

> This makes me wonder about the legal issues. I expect we'll
> have to face those at some point.

we already have.

> What about poor people who
> can't afford bank accounts?

bank accounts are free (and actually *pay* the customer a small amount
of interest), however, there are those who remain unbanked.

many stores sell prepaid cards, and not just for unbanked people.

larger venues that do not accept cash often have a kiosk dispensing
cards, however, they are usually only for that venue, versus a general
purpose prepaid card.

it's similar to game arcades which accept tokens and not coins. to
play, you have to buy a bunch of tokens.

> What about the federal law printed
> on bills that says they're legal tender for all debts? I don't
> see how a public store or restaurant can legally refuse cash.

there is no debt if a seller refuses to sell you something. no
transaction has taken place.

some places are cash only and do not accept cards or checks.

the seller gets to choose how to manage their own business.

On 2023-07-09 19:54, Bodger wrote:
> On 7/9/2023 12:12 PM, Roger Mills wrote:
>> On 09/07/2023 15:20, Ken Blake wrote:
>>> I've so far avoided using Google Pay, or anything like it. Should I
>>> reconsider?

....

> My recent experience in the UK (Wales, NI, Scotland) is that you are
> more likely to find contactless (card or phone) accepted nearly
> everywhere while many establishments flatly refuse to accept cash. Even
> street vendors were wired. I found the same thing in Amsterdam. The bar
> in my hotel in Belfast had prominent signs as I entered declining to
> accept cash. Luckily they took GPay so I could stay lubricated.

There is also the reverse: in Spain it is quite possible that small
shops refuse card payment, or refuse it if the payment is small (there
will be a notice saying this somewhere).

If you are boarding a taxi, ask first whether they accept your payment
method.

On buses, for example on my city they use their own NFC card. Some
things may have their own phone app for payment (street parking spots,
for instance).

Lots of variance per city.

About Google Pay, I do see many people paying using the phone, but I
don't know if they are using Google Pay / Samsung Pay / Apple Pay, or
their bank app (I have used the later). Some banks support Google Pay, I
have seen a notice about this but did not read the details.

Oh, and here there is a popular payment method, phone number to phone
number, called Bizum. Only works with Spanish phone numbers. Other
countries have their own method, but we hope that they will accept
payments across countries "soon".

--
Cheers, Carlos.

On Sun, 9 Jul 2023 18:13:12 +0200, Joerg Lorenz <hugybear@gmx.ch>
wrote:

>Am 09.07.23 um 16:20 schrieb Ken Blake:
>> I've so far avoided using Google Pay, or anything like it. Should I
>> reconsider?
>
>What are you missing? Why do you think it could improve your life?

I don't know. That's why I asked.

>> What are the advantages of using it? What are the disadvantages?
>> Especially what are the security risks if my phone is lost or stolen?
>>
>> If it might be a good idea to use something like this, should I choose
>> Google Play or something else? Why?
>>
>> And a relatively minor question--do these work outside of the
>> US--especially in Italy, where I'll be for a couple of weeks in
>> November?
>
>AFAIK it does. But your credit card will work too. Cash works and debit
>cards as well.

On Sun, 9 Jul 2023 09:13:01 -0700, sms <scharf.steven@geemail.com>
wrote:

>On 7/9/2023 7:20 AM, Ken Blake wrote:
>> I've so far avoided using Google Pay, or anything like it. Should I
>> reconsider?
>>
>> What are the advantages of using it? What are the disadvantages?
>> Especially what are the security risks if my phone is lost or stolen?
>>
>> If it might be a good idea to use something like this, should I choose
>> Google Play or something else? Why?
>>
>> And a relatively minor question--do these work outside of the
>> US--especially in Italy, where I'll be for a couple of weeks in
>> November?
>
>I used Google Pay and Apple Pay extensively in Italy in 2019. In Milan,
>I was looking for some Euro coins for the pay toilet at the Duomo but it
>ended up being unnecessary since the toilets took Apple Pay and Google
>Pay! We used very little cash in Italy since nearly every place we went
>had NFC payments, either via a phone or a credit card.
>
>Of course make sure that your credit cards don't have any foreign
>transaction fees and that for cash you have a Schwab 1 debit card which
>rebates all ATM fees worldwide and has no minimum balance requirement.

Thanks. I'll look into getting it.

>One big advantage to me of Apple Pay and Google Pay is that I have a
>Visa card (US Bank Altitude Visa) that gives 3% cash back on all mobile
>wallet transactions. 3% flat rate cash back is unusual for credit cards,
>there was one other one from a credit union but it has been
>discontinued. It has a net annual fee of $75 (after a $325 yearly credit
>for dining and travel) but the extra 1% cash back makes up for that. It
>also gives you four Priority Pass lounge visits (for 2) or a big credit
>at some airport restaurants if there is no PP lounge. Also it is
>_primary_ rental car insurance not secondary. Also it pays for TSA
>Precheck or Global Entry (get the latter since it includes TSA Precheck,
>it's just more of a hassle to sign up). It also gives one extra year of
>warranty protection which is useful now that the Citibank Costco Visa
>dropped extended warranty protection.
>
>In 2019 it was pre-Brexit and I got UK Vodafone SIM cards, in advance,
>with 500MB per day of data for €1 per day but that deal is long gone. It
>was very useful to have high-speed data as soon as we arrived. Download
>Moovit.

I'll look into that too.

On Sun, 9 Jul 2023 17:12:17 +0100, Roger Mills
<mills37.fslife@gmail.com> wrote:

>On 09/07/2023 15:20, Ken Blake wrote:
>> I've so far avoided using Google Pay, or anything like it. Should I
>> reconsider?
>>
>> What are the advantages of using it? What are the disadvantages?
>> Especially what are the security risks if my phone is lost or stolen?
>>
>> If it might be a good idea to use something like this, should I choose
>> Google Play or something else? Why?
>>
>> And a relatively minor question--do these work outside of the
>> US--especially in Italy, where I'll be for a couple of weeks in
>> November?
>
>
>It certainly works outside the USA - I'm using it in UK. I'm pretty sure
>that I've used it in the Netherlands too - so Italy is probably ok.
>
>My view is that it's safer than carrying a contactless card. If your
>card is lost or stolen, the finder can make a number of transactions -
>each up to 100GB£ in the UK - without needing to know the PIN. However,
>anyone who finds your phone will need to turn it on - requiring a PIN or
>face recognition or fingerprint - before they can use Google Pay.

I wasn't considering using GooglePay and not carrying any credit
cards. I was rather thinking of carrying both with each acting as
backup for the other.

But thanks to you, and everyone else who answered, for your views.

In message <u8euko$8hs7$1@paganini.bofh.team>
"Newyana2" <Newyana2@invalid.nospam> wrote:

>"Bodger" <nobody@nowh.ere> wrote
>|
>| You might find that in the UK at least cash is flatly refused in many
>| establishments or so I found in my travels.
>
> Interesting. Another good reason not to visit the UK.

The great majority of transactions in the UK nowadays do not involve
cash.

> I rarely use anything but cash for anything. It's cheaper, less
> risky

Cash is more expensive because you don't get cashback for cash.

Cash is more risky because, once it's been stolen, you will never get
it back again, whereas contactless payments are often protected.

Cash is less convenient because you have to keep filling up your wallet
or purse, and carry that bulk of coins around. And sometimes you find
you haven't got the exact amount required, usually to pay a machine.

I would be happy if cash were abandoned completely.

David

On 7/9/2023 1:53 PM, Ken Blake wrote:

<snip>

> I wasn't considering using GooglePay and not carrying any credit
> cards. I was rather thinking of carrying both with each acting as
> backup for the other.

Google Pay and Apple Pay are really nice to have in Europe.

It's likely that none of your U.S. credit cards are Chip & PIN. There
are only a few U.S. credit cards that offer Chip & PIN and even fewer
that have PIN priority. Without Chip & PIN it is sometimes difficult to
make purchases like train tickets and mass transit passes from
unattended kiosks. But Apple Pay and Google Pay work fine. In a
restaurant, the waitperson will bring a portable terminal to collect
payment. Without a Chip & PIN credit card you'll have to sign a receipt
instead of entering your PIN, unless you use Apple Pay or Google Pay (or
Samsung Pay).

Nearly all U.S. credit cards are "chip and signature" while a few offer
Chip & PIN with signature priority and extremely few offer Chip & PIN
with PIN priority.

If someone steals your U.S. credit card they can use it freely since no
PIN is required. If they steal your phone it's a lot more difficult to
use Apple Pay or Google Pay without knowing your PIN, pattern,
fingerprint, or face.

See
<https://www.creditcards.com/education/which-us-issuers-offer-chip-and-pin-card/>.
--
“If you are not an expert on a subject, then your opinions about it
really do matter less than the opinions of experts. It's not
indoctrination nor elitism. It's just that you don't know as much as
they do about the subject.”—Tin Foil Awards

On 7/9/2023 5:43 PM, David Higton wrote:
>>snipage...
> and carry that bulk of coins around.
>>and more snippage...

Ahhh. The coins. I had forgotten about them. It seems that in the UK I
invariably wound up with an ungodly number of coins weighing down my
pockets. While wandering around Wales last Autumn I finally adopted the
practice of dropping any coin change I might receive into a charity box.
Since a number of these transactions were made in pubs there was always at
least one charity box for the local lifeboat service or whatever I figured
I was doing a double good -- money for a good cause and less jangle in my
pockets. Eventually I refined my practice to "keep no more than three
pounds in coins and nothing smaller than 50p".

On 7/9/2023 4:04 PM, sms wrote:

> If someone steals your U.S. credit card they can use it freely since
> no PIN is required.

If my credit card is stolen I can deactivate it immediately using my
phone's bank app.

Further I have my credit card set to notify me by text/email (usually
within seconds) of all purchases over $10 so I would know right
away of ANY credit card fraud, not just a stolen card, and can take
immediate action.

> If they steal your phone it's a lot more difficult to use Apple Pay
> or Google Pay without knowing your PIN, pattern, fingerprint, or
> face.

Having my phone stolen would be a nightmare for a lot of reasons
compared to just having my credit card stolen...

> See
> <https://www.creditcards.com/education/which-us-issuers-offer-chip-and-pin-card/>.

nospam wrote:

> In article <u8emaf$25vdf$1@dont-email.me>, sms
> <scharf.steven@geemail.com> wrote:
>
>> Of course make sure that your credit cards don't have any foreign
>> transaction fees and that for cash you have a Schwab 1 debit card which
>> rebates all ATM fees worldwide and has no minimum balance requirement.
>
> most banks refund atm fees.
>
>> One big advantage to me of Apple Pay and Google Pay is that I have a
>> Visa card (US Bank Altitude Visa) that gives 3% cash back on all mobile
>> wallet transactions.
>
> that particular card has a $400 annual fee.
>
>> 3% flat rate cash back is unusual for credit cards,
>> there was one other one from a credit union but it has been
>> discontinued. It has a net annual fee of $75 (after a $325 yearly credit
>> for dining and travel)
>
> it's only a net $75 *if* all of the travel credit is used.
>
> but even then, someone would have to spend $7500 a year to break even
> versus a 2% card on everything, with no annual fees.

You're very lucky in the US - the best cashback I can get in the UK is with
the Chase Bank card (UK version) which gives 1% cashback (but you have to
pay in £500 per month to get it, you don't get it on everything you buy and
there's a £15 cashback limit per month). Amex Everyday Credit card (no
annual fee) gives 0.5% cashback if you spend over £3000 p.a. and a bit more
for over £10000. Some Amex charge cards here give a bit more (but not as
cashback) but the annual fees make them uneconomic except for the big
spenders. Lots of retailers won't take Amex as they charge the retailers
higher fees than all the others. After that there are a couple of credit
cards giving 0.25%.

--
Bob
Tetbury, Gloucestershire, England

Duct tape can't fix stupidity - but it can muffle the sound.

Bodger wrote:

> On 7/9/2023 12:13 PM, Joerg Lorenz wrote:
>> Am 09.07.23 um 16:20 schrieb Ken Blake:
>>> I've so far avoided using Google Pay, or anything like it. Should I
>>> reconsider?
>>
>> What are you missing? Why do you think it could improve your life?
>>
>>> What are the advantages of using it? What are the disadvantages?
>>> Especially what are the security risks if my phone is lost or stolen?
>>>
>>> If it might be a good idea to use something like this, should I choose
>>> Google Play or something else? Why?
>>>
>>> And a relatively minor question--do these work outside of the
>>> US--especially in Italy, where I'll be for a couple of weeks in
>>> November?
>>
>> AFAIK it does. But your credit card will work too. Cash works and debit
>> cards as well.
>>
>
> You might find that in the UK at least cash is flatly refused in many
> establishments or so I found in my travels. I dutifully went to my bank and
> got around $750 worth of pounds sterling before my trip last Autumn to
> Wales but I spent almost none of it since everybody seemed to expect
> contactless. This Spring I went to NI and Scotland and the same thing
> happened. I still have at least $500 worth of pounds in my passport in the
> safe and don't know when I'll ever use it up. Same thing with Euros -- I
> still have a stash of them in the safe since cash is frowned upon in many
> places. I've got to admit that I've gotten used to this method of payment
> and am glad to see that more companies here are taking it up -- even my
> stodgy local grocery has caught up with the times.

Your experience is at odds with the usual system in England. I only know of
one small, miles-from-anywhere pub that won't take cash (no bank anywhere
near). Everywhere else I've ever shopped takes cash. Nearly all businesses
take cards, but there are still quite a few that will only take cash,
especially for small transactions where they lose money on card
transactions. Most will not now take paper cheques, though.

It will start to change as there are now hardly any physical bank branches
left and in many places the Post Office is the only place that will take in
the cash takings from businesses, but as yet you'll have no problem with
cash in England ot the bits of Wales in which I've shopped. I haven't been
to Scotland for years, but I've never known a Scotsman refuse any form of
money!

--
Bob
Tetbury, Gloucestershire, England

Alimony - the Bounty on the Mutiny!

Ken Blake <Ken@invalid.news.com> wrote:
> I've so far avoided using Google Pay, or anything like it. Should I
> reconsider?
>
> What are the advantages of using it? What are the disadvantages?
> Especially what are the security risks if my phone is lost or stolen?

It depends on how secure your phone lock is. An easy to guess PIN - or if
you've been observed typing it in - will mean a thief has access to your
cards and is able to use them. As well as anything else in your phone.

A simple loss is a minor problem but still a PITA.

The main advantage is contactless payments which I believe aren't that
common in the US. We've had that in Europe for nearly a decade.

> If it might be a good idea to use something like this, should I choose
> Google Play or something else? Why?
>
> And a relatively minor question--do these work outside of the
> US--especially in Italy, where I'll be for a couple of weeks in
> November?

Yes, have just come back from a trip to Venice. Although smaller, local
shops may not take any form of card so you'll need some cash just in case.
Anywhere touristy will take any form of payment ;)

Bob Henson <bob.henson@outlook.com> wrote:
> nospam wrote:
>
>> In article <u8emaf$25vdf$1@dont-email.me>, sms
>> <scharf.steven@geemail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Of course make sure that your credit cards don't have any foreign
>>> transaction fees and that for cash you have a Schwab 1 debit card which
>>> rebates all ATM fees worldwide and has no minimum balance requirement.
>>
>> most banks refund atm fees.
>>
>>> One big advantage to me of Apple Pay and Google Pay is that I have a
>>> Visa card (US Bank Altitude Visa) that gives 3% cash back on all mobile
>>> wallet transactions.
>>
>> that particular card has a $400 annual fee.
>>
>>> 3% flat rate cash back is unusual for credit cards,
>>> there was one other one from a credit union but it has been
>>> discontinued. It has a net annual fee of $75 (after a $325 yearly credit
>>> for dining and travel)
>>
>> it's only a net $75 *if* all of the travel credit is used.
>>
>> but even then, someone would have to spend $7500 a year to break even
>> versus a 2% card on everything, with no annual fees.
>
> You're very lucky in the US - the best cashback I can get in the UK is with
> the Chase Bank card (UK version) which gives 1% cashback

That's because we have a limit on the fees credit card companies charge for
transactions. The charges in the US are significantly higher so the banks
can offer better deals for those with credit.

This was an EU-wide feature so may change in the UK after brexit.

On 7/9/2023 5:35 PM, AJL wrote:
> On 7/9/2023 4:04 PM, sms wrote:
>
>> If someone steals your U.S. credit card they can use it freely since
>> no PIN is required.
>
> If my credit card is stolen I can deactivate it immediately using my
> phone's bank app.

That is true, as long as your phone isn't stolen too.

On Friday, one of my colleagues, from Spain, was telling how he was
mugged, at gunpoint, in downtown San Francisco and they took his phone
and his wallet. My sister's significant other had his phone stolen in
Europe (though not his wallet).

<snip>

--
“If you are not an expert on a subject, then your opinions about it
really do matter less than the opinions of experts. It's not
indoctrination nor elitism. It's just that you don't know as much as
they do about the subject.”—Tin Foil Awards

Newyana2 <Newyana2@invalid.nospam> wrote:
> "Bodger" <nobody@nowh.ere> wrote
> |
> | You might find that in the UK at least cash is flatly refused in many
> | establishments or so I found in my travels.
>
> Interesting. Another good reason not to visit the UK.
> (The first being that my flight would surely be cancelled. :)
>
> I'm surprised that it's legal to refuse cash. There are several
> places in the US where accepting cash has long been
> required, and more places are moving that way...

Such as?

> Just
> in time to prevent Amazon building cash-less
> supermarkets.
>
> I rarely use anything but cash for anything. It's cheaper, less
> risky, better privacy and doesn't line the pockets of sleazy bank
> middlemen who don't work for their cut. Where I have to use a
> card I do and I get cash back. But I try to avoid it where possible.
> I'd never use a debit card or phone payment system. That's
> just handing a kickback to Square, Apple, Google or some such
> for no reason.

The reason is they provide a service.

> This makes me wonder about the legal issues. I expect we'll
> have to face those at some point. What about poor people who
> can't afford bank accounts?

How do you think poor people get paid or get benefits? Everyone can get a
bank account.

> What about the federal law printed
> on bills that says they're legal tender for all debts? I don't
> see how a public store or restaurant can legally refuse cash.

Because a business doesn't have to accept your custom. They can refuse to
sell the product or service to you.