I've never had to use a cell phone outside of the U.S.

Four members of our family are going to Germany and England to visit just
discovered (through DNA evidence) immediate family , and I'm trying to
figure out the best way to handle texting, calling, and sending photos
between

those of us who will be visiting Germany and England,
just discovered relatives residing in Germany and England,
and other family members still back in the U.S.

All U.S. family members traveling have ATT mobile accounts, with Samsung
Android phones. Three are on the same account, one has their own
account.

The AT&T International Day Pass� would work, at a cost, of course:

-----------

"Our best international option! Use the talk, text & data you already
have when you travel to over 210 countries.

Add anytime. Pay $10 for the first 24 hours of coverage - only on the
days you use it. Use any additional lines on your account on the same day
for just $5 per day. Never pay for more than 10 days per bill.

Unlimited talk applies to calls to the U.S., or within and between
International Day Pass countries. Long distance rates apply to all other
calls.

Terms, fees, and other restrictions apply for the plan you use at home.
That includes Video Management. Go to myAT&T to remove or cancel this
option anytime, but higher rates may apply.

Just a heads-up:

If you have apps running in the background that use data, you'll be
charged the per-day fee.
To avoid unintended data use, go to your device or app settings to
turn off roaming or mobile data.
You will only be charged a maximum of 10 days per line each bill
cycle, even if you stay longer!"

--------

QUESTION:
I don't understand what is meant by apps running in the background that
use data will be charged the per-day fee. So even if I'm on this plan,
but not making calls, texting, etc., if I'm using the internet, for
instance, I'll be charged $10 for that day?

QUESTION:
And, to avoid unintended data use, I should turn off roaming or mobile
data. The only way I see to do this is to turn on Airplane mode, but
wouldn't this turn off ALL data capabilities?

I'm also considering WhatsAPP, but don't care for it much.

On 2023-07-24 20:58, Boris wrote:
> I've never had to use a cell phone outside of the U.S.
>
> Four members of our family are going to Germany and England to visit just
> discovered (through DNA evidence) immediate family , and I'm trying to
> figure out the best way to handle texting, calling, and sending photos
> between
>
> those of us who will be visiting Germany and England,
> just discovered relatives residing in Germany and England,
> and other family members still back in the U.S.

Typically the best thing is to have a phone with dual SIMs, and buy a
prepaid SIM on Europe for the duration.

>
> All U.S. family members traveling have ATT mobile accounts, with Samsung
> Android phones. Three are on the same account, one has their own
> account.
>
> The AT&T International Day Pass® would work, at a cost, of course:
>
> -----------
>
> "Our best international option! Use the talk, text & data you already
> have when you travel to over 210 countries.
>
> Add anytime. Pay $10 for the first 24 hours of coverage - only on the
> days you use it. Use any additional lines on your account on the same day
> for just $5 per day. Never pay for more than 10 days per bill.
>
> Unlimited talk applies to calls to the U.S., or within and between
> International Day Pass countries. Long distance rates apply to all other
> calls.
>
> Terms, fees, and other restrictions apply for the plan you use at home.
> That includes Video Management. Go to myAT&T to remove or cancel this
> option anytime, but higher rates may apply.
>
> Just a heads-up:
>
> If you have apps running in the background that use data, you'll be
> charged the per-day fee.
> To avoid unintended data use, go to your device or app settings to
> turn off roaming or mobile data.
> You will only be charged a maximum of 10 days per line each bill
> cycle, even if you stay longer!"
>
> --------
>
> QUESTION:
> I don't understand what is meant by apps running in the background that
> use data will be charged the per-day fee. So even if I'm on this plan,
> but not making calls, texting, etc., if I'm using the internet, for
> instance, I'll be charged $10 for that day?

It means that some apps that you are not actually using, may themselves
use internet for whatever they see fit. Say, a bank app might want to
check if you got any new invoice. The phone might want to send the
current location for google tracking.

The instant there is a connection to send a single byte, your company
charges you the $10 for that day.

>
> QUESTION:
> And, to avoid unintended data use, I should turn off roaming or mobile
> data. The only way I see to do this is to turn on Airplane mode, but
> wouldn't this turn off ALL data capabilities?

There is a setting to turn off data and of roaming in the configuration
of the SIM.

> I'm also considering WhatsAPP, but don't care for it much.

You should consider that WhatsApp is a must have in most of Europe, like
it or not. For many people, sending and SMS to you is expensive (say a
dollar per message). Even more if it has photos. On the other hand,
WhatsApp is gratis, provided you already have internet.

Of course, there are other apps with their corresponding isolated
network that are used. Ask your relatives what apps they are using, and
get the same app installed.

There is Signal, Telegram, Google Chat, Threema...

Don't forget RCS. This can be considered as an enhancement on SMS
working over internet, so that if both correspondents have it⁽¹⁾, mutual
messaging is gratis. iphones don't have it. So make sure your SMS app
supports it. Experiment before you travel.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rich_Communication_Services
https://jibe.google.com/

(1) There is a more or less subtle colour difference that tells you if
your intended correspondent has RCS. For instance, you start to type a
message, and see a little label saying "SMS", you don't have RCS for
this conversation. Or you may see a label saying "RCS".

I just tried in my phone, and inside the text box, prior to typing, I
read "text message" (faint grey box) or "RCS message" (bluish box). This
is much better than a year ago, when the difference was subtle.

--
Cheers, Carlos.

Carlos E.R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
> On 2023-07-24 20:58, Boris wrote:
> > I've never had to use a cell phone outside of the U.S.
> >
> > Four members of our family are going to Germany and England to visit just
> > discovered (through DNA evidence) immediate family , and I'm trying to
> > figure out the best way to handle texting, calling, and sending photos
> > between
> >
> > those of us who will be visiting Germany and England,
> > just discovered relatives residing in Germany and England,
> > and other family members still back in the U.S.
>
> Typically the best thing is to have a phone with dual SIMs, and buy a
> prepaid SIM on Europe for the duration.

If your phone doesn't take two physical SIMs, many recent phones support
eSIMs. You can either buy an eSIM from a network in a country you're
visiting (although not all networks support eSIMs, and even fewer on
prepay), or you can buy an 'international' eSIM from somebody like Airalo.

The latter often only give you data, not voice or SMS, but you can then use
apps for the voice or text functionality over the data connection. WhatsApp
is one example, but also VOIP apps which give you a real phone number that
can send/receive calls and SMS.

> It means that some apps that you are not actually using, may themselves
> use internet for whatever they see fit. Say, a bank app might want to
> check if you got any new invoice. The phone might want to send the
> current location for google tracking.
>
> The instant there is a connection to send a single byte, your company
> charges you the $10 for that day.

Android is sufficiently chatty that it's basically impossible to prevent the
phone using data unless you turn it off completely, so the moment you turn
on your mobile data connection the $10 will be gone. The only way that's
really feasible is if you rely on wifi most of the time and only turn on
data in specific situations.

> You should consider that WhatsApp is a must have in most of Europe, like
> it or not. For many people, sending and SMS to you is expensive (say a
> dollar per message). Even more if it has photos. On the other hand,
> WhatsApp is gratis, provided you already have internet.

SMS is free or cheap within a European country, but as soon as you start
sending cross border (eg UK to US or German phone number) it gets expensive.
A local SIM doesn't solve this, unless you have a number for each country.
MMS is basically not used here, as it's so expensive and not included in
plans.

Theo

On 2023-07-26 14:07, Theo wrote:
> Carlos E.R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
>> On 2023-07-24 20:58, Boris wrote:
>>> I've never had to use a cell phone outside of the U.S.
>>>
>>> Four members of our family are going to Germany and England to visit just
>>> discovered (through DNA evidence) immediate family , and I'm trying to
>>> figure out the best way to handle texting, calling, and sending photos
>>> between
>>>
>>> those of us who will be visiting Germany and England,
>>> just discovered relatives residing in Germany and England,
>>> and other family members still back in the U.S.
>>
>> Typically the best thing is to have a phone with dual SIMs, and buy a
>> prepaid SIM on Europe for the duration.
>
> If your phone doesn't take two physical SIMs, many recent phones support
> eSIMs. You can either buy an eSIM from a network in a country you're
> visiting (although not all networks support eSIMs, and even fewer on
> prepay), or you can buy an 'international' eSIM from somebody like Airalo.

Another possibility is to switch the USA SIM to eSIM, freeing the SIM
slot for travelling.

--
Cheers, Carlos.

On 7/24/2023 2:58 PM, Boris wrote:
> I've never had to use a cell phone outside of the U.S.
>
> Four members of our family are going to Germany and England to visit just
> discovered (through DNA evidence) immediate family , and I'm trying to
> figure out the best way to handle texting, calling, and sending photos
> between
snip...

All of this makes me glad that I switched over to Google-Fi for my
provider. When I travel anywhere overseas (well, I'm sure that there are
places where it won't work but I haven't found any yet) as the plane is
taxiing I get a message that I'm being connected and then magically a
minute later I have local mobile, text and data without me lifting a
finger. The service even hunts out the best provider -- I was hiking near
the West end of Anglesey Wales and when I got in a bit of terrain that
weakened the local signal I got a message saying "Welcome to Ireland" and
assuring me that I'd be connected momentarily. I don't know how much
stronger the Irish signal from across the sea could have been but
apparently the phone knew and it did work seamlessly.

I used to go the local SIM route and it did work for years but this is SO
much easier. There seems to be a near-infinite number of providers of
travel SIMs and I now have no idea which of them are good and which are bad.

"Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote in
news:2333pjxjag.ln2@Telcontar.valinor:

> On 2023-07-24 20:58, Boris wrote:
>> I've never had to use a cell phone outside of the U.S.
>>
>> Four members of our family are going to Germany and England to visit
>> just discovered (through DNA evidence) immediate family , and I'm
>> trying to figure out the best way to handle texting, calling, and
>> sending photos between
>>
>> those of us who will be visiting Germany and England,
>> just discovered relatives residing in Germany and England,
>> and other family members still back in the U.S.
>
> Typically the best thing is to have a phone with dual SIMs, and buy a
> prepaid SIM on Europe for the duration.
>
>
>>
>> All U.S. family members traveling have ATT mobile accounts, with
>> Samsung Android phones. Three are on the same account, one has their
>> own account.
>>
>> The AT&T International Day Pass® would work, at a cost, of course:
>>
>> -----------
>>
>> "Our best international option! Use the talk, text & data you already
>> have when you travel to over 210 countries.
>>
>> Add anytime. Pay $10 for the first 24 hours of coverage - only on the
>> days you use it. Use any additional lines on your account on the same
>> day for just $5 per day. Never pay for more than 10 days per bill.
>>
>> Unlimited talk applies to calls to the U.S., or within and between
>> International Day Pass countries. Long distance rates apply to all
>> other calls.
>>
>> Terms, fees, and other restrictions apply for the plan you use at
>> home. That includes Video Management. Go to myAT&T to remove or
>> cancel this option anytime, but higher rates may apply.
>>
>> Just a heads-up:
>>
>> If you have apps running in the background that use data, you'll
>> be
>> charged the per-day fee.
>> To avoid unintended data use, go to your device or app settings
>> to
>> turn off roaming or mobile data.
>> You will only be charged a maximum of 10 days per line each bill
>> cycle, even if you stay longer!"
>>
>> --------
>>
>> QUESTION:
>> I don't understand what is meant by apps running in the background
>> that use data will be charged the per-day fee. So even if I'm on
>> this plan, but not making calls, texting, etc., if I'm using the
>> internet, for instance, I'll be charged $10 for that day?
>
> It means that some apps that you are not actually using, may
> themselves use internet for whatever they see fit. Say, a bank app
> might want to check if you got any new invoice. The phone might want
> to send the current location for google tracking.
>
> The instant there is a connection to send a single byte, your company
> charges you the $10 for that day.
>
>>
>> QUESTION:
>> And, to avoid unintended data use, I should turn off roaming or
>> mobile data. The only way I see to do this is to turn on Airplane
>> mode, but wouldn't this turn off ALL data capabilities?
>
> There is a setting to turn off data and of roaming in the
> configuration of the SIM.
>
>> I'm also considering WhatsAPP, but don't care for it much.
>
> You should consider that WhatsApp is a must have in most of Europe,
> like it or not. For many people, sending and SMS to you is expensive
> (say a dollar per message). Even more if it has photos. On the other
> hand, WhatsApp is gratis, provided you already have internet.

Thanks for the very informative reply, Carlos E. R. I'm leaving soon,
and came back to your information, and have a question.

My intention is to make things as easy as possible, especially for three
of us who use ATT here in the U.S. Right now, looks like the ATT
International Day Pass is simple. I have not signed up for this plan,
yet. I'm considering WhatsApp.

All of my European and UK relatives use WhatsApp. So, I was thinking
maybe I should just do the same so as not to be 'difficult'. I read
that to use WhatsApp, one needs internet. We all here have internet
with ATT, but say I'm in Germany, out in the country, and I want to let
my German relatives that I stopped at the tavern down the road, I
suppose I have to connect with an ISP. Would we have to sign up with an
ISP in both Germany and England to be sure the internet connection was
secure, and not just an insecure 'hotspot'?

I'll need to check email and banking, which I could do while back at a
hotel with wifi on a laptop.

>
> Of course, there are other apps with their corresponding isolated
> network that are used. Ask your relatives what apps they are using,
> and get the same app installed.
>
> There is Signal, Telegram, Google Chat, Threema...
>
>
>
> Don't forget RCS. This can be considered as an enhancement on SMS
> working over internet, so that if both correspondents have it⁽¹⁾,
> mutual messaging is gratis. iphones don't have it. So make sure your
> SMS app supports it. Experiment before you travel.
>
>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rich_Communication_Services
> https://jibe.google.com/
>
>
> (1) There is a more or less subtle colour difference that tells you
> if your intended correspondent has RCS. For instance, you start to
> type a message, and see a little label saying "SMS", you don't have
> RCS for this conversation. Or you may see a label saying "RCS".
>
> I just tried in my phone, and inside the text box, prior to typing, I
> read "text message" (faint grey box) or "RCS message" (bluish box).
> This is much better than a year ago, when the difference was subtle.
>

On 6 Aug 2023 02:43:23 -0000 (UTC) Boris wrote:
>
>news:2333pjxjag.ln2@Telcontar.valinor:
>
>All of my European and UK relatives use WhatsApp. So, I was thinking
>maybe I should just do the same so as not to be 'difficult'. I read
>that to use WhatsApp, one needs internet...
>
It sounds like you've not used WhatsApp. I suggest you familiarise
yourself with it and try out its features before you go. You don't have to
be a member of FaceBook, BTW.

'All' your European relatives, which of course includes those of them in
the UK, may 'use' WhatsApp, but I expect not everyone will use it for the
same things. I suspect (and I have no evidence for this except observation
of my own family) that many more people use the group chat feature than
use individual chat, and many people never use it for voice or video
calls. It depends on the iPhone/Android mix and people's ages.

So setting up a WhatsApp group to tell people how you're doing, and ask
questions on routes, would work fine, but an old-fashioned phone call or
text will be more reliable in other situations.

Some Europeans, like me, 'use' WhatsApp but don't usually carry a phone
that has it.

--
(Remove numerics from email address)

On 2023-08-06 09:02, Dave Royal wrote:
> On 6 Aug 2023 02:43:23 -0000 (UTC) Boris wrote:
>>
>> news:2333pjxjag.ln2@Telcontar.valinor:
>>
>> All of my European and UK relatives use WhatsApp. So, I was thinking
>> maybe I should just do the same so as not to be 'difficult'. I read
>> that to use WhatsApp, one needs internet...
>>
> It sounds like you've not used WhatsApp. I suggest you familiarise
> yourself with it and try out its features before you go. You don't have to
> be a member of FaceBook, BTW.
>
> 'All' your European relatives, which of course includes those of them in
> the UK, may 'use' WhatsApp, but I expect not everyone will use it for the
> same things. I suspect (and I have no evidence for this except observation
> of my own family) that many more people use the group chat feature than
> use individual chat, and many people never use it for voice or video
> calls. It depends on the iPhone/Android mix and people's ages.
>
> So setting up a WhatsApp group to tell people how you're doing, and ask
> questions on routes, would work fine, but an old-fashioned phone call or
> text will be more reliable in other situations.

Many people never use groups on WhatsApp. To us, WA is just a glorified
SMS Messaging app, you can use it just the same :-)

--
Cheers, Carlos.

On 2023-08-06 04:43, Boris wrote:
> "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote in
> news:2333pjxjag.ln2@Telcontar.valinor:
>
>> On 2023-07-24 20:58, Boris wrote:
>>> I've never had to use a cell phone outside of the U.S.
>>>
>>> Four members of our family are going to Germany and England to visit
>>> just discovered (through DNA evidence) immediate family , and I'm
>>> trying to figure out the best way to handle texting, calling, and
>>> sending photos between
>>>
>>> those of us who will be visiting Germany and England,
>>> just discovered relatives residing in Germany and England,
>>> and other family members still back in the U.S.
>>
>> Typically the best thing is to have a phone with dual SIMs, and buy a
>> prepaid SIM on Europe for the duration.
>>
>>
>>>
>>> All U.S. family members traveling have ATT mobile accounts, with
>>> Samsung Android phones. Three are on the same account, one has their
>>> own account.
>>>
>>> The AT&T International Day Pass® would work, at a cost, of course:
>>>
>>> -----------
>>>
>>> "Our best international option! Use the talk, text & data you already
>>> have when you travel to over 210 countries.
>>>
>>> Add anytime. Pay $10 for the first 24 hours of coverage - only on the
>>> days you use it. Use any additional lines on your account on the same
>>> day for just $5 per day. Never pay for more than 10 days per bill.
>>>
>>> Unlimited talk applies to calls to the U.S., or within and between
>>> International Day Pass countries. Long distance rates apply to all
>>> other calls.
>>>
>>> Terms, fees, and other restrictions apply for the plan you use at
>>> home. That includes Video Management. Go to myAT&T to remove or
>>> cancel this option anytime, but higher rates may apply.
>>>
>>> Just a heads-up:
>>>
>>> If you have apps running in the background that use data, you'll
>>> be
>>> charged the per-day fee.
>>> To avoid unintended data use, go to your device or app settings
>>> to
>>> turn off roaming or mobile data.
>>> You will only be charged a maximum of 10 days per line each bill
>>> cycle, even if you stay longer!"
>>>
>>> --------
>>>
>>> QUESTION:
>>> I don't understand what is meant by apps running in the background
>>> that use data will be charged the per-day fee. So even if I'm on
>>> this plan, but not making calls, texting, etc., if I'm using the
>>> internet, for instance, I'll be charged $10 for that day?
>>
>> It means that some apps that you are not actually using, may
>> themselves use internet for whatever they see fit. Say, a bank app
>> might want to check if you got any new invoice. The phone might want
>> to send the current location for google tracking.
>>
>> The instant there is a connection to send a single byte, your company
>> charges you the $10 for that day.
>>
>>>
>>> QUESTION:
>>> And, to avoid unintended data use, I should turn off roaming or
>>> mobile data. The only way I see to do this is to turn on Airplane
>>> mode, but wouldn't this turn off ALL data capabilities?
>>
>> There is a setting to turn off data and of roaming in the
>> configuration of the SIM.
>>
>>> I'm also considering WhatsAPP, but don't care for it much.
>>
>> You should consider that WhatsApp is a must have in most of Europe,
>> like it or not. For many people, sending and SMS to you is expensive
>> (say a dollar per message). Even more if it has photos. On the other
>> hand, WhatsApp is gratis, provided you already have internet.
>
> Thanks for the very informative reply, Carlos E. R. I'm leaving soon,
> and came back to your information, and have a question.
>
> My intention is to make things as easy as possible, especially for three
> of us who use ATT here in the U.S. Right now, looks like the ATT
> International Day Pass is simple. I have not signed up for this plan,
> yet. I'm considering WhatsApp.
>
> All of my European and UK relatives use WhatsApp. So, I was thinking
> maybe I should just do the same so as not to be 'difficult'. I read
> that to use WhatsApp, one needs internet. We all here have internet
> with ATT, but say I'm in Germany, out in the country, and I want to let
> my German relatives that I stopped at the tavern down the road, I
> suppose I have to connect with an ISP. Would we have to sign up with an
> ISP in both Germany and England to be sure the internet connection was
> secure, and not just an insecure 'hotspot'?
>
> I'll need to check email and banking, which I could do while back at a
> hotel with wifi on a laptop.

Setup WhatsApp while you are home, it is easier.

Yes, it needs internet, be it the phone data connection, or any WiFi you
connect to.

Or, if the phone has a dual SIM, it can use the data connection of the
other SIM. That is, WA is registered to your USA number, but uses the
data connection of the temporary European SIM (if you have it).

As I am from "here", meaning, the EU union, I have no experience with
getting a "local" SIM on Britain or Germany (I have my own permanent
card which is supposed to work on the entire union). Britain is no
longer on the EU, so a card bought there _might_ not work on Germany.
Better ask.

--
Cheers, Carlos.

On 6 Aug 2023 14:13:06 +0200 Carlos E.R. wrote:
>
>As I am from "here", meaning, the EU union, I have no experience with
>getting a "local" SIM on Britain or Germany (I have my own permanent
>card which is supposed to work on the entire union). Britain is no
>longer on the EU, so a card bought there _might_ not work on Germany.
>Better ask.
>
Technically, UK SIMs and EU ones are the same. A SIM bought in the UK will
work accross Europe - and beyond.

The only difference leaving the EU has made is that UK operators can
charge extra for roaming in the EU, which some do and some (such as my
giffgaff ones) don't.

I have a German (FONIC) SIM which I can roam in the UK with. FONIC still
charge EU roaming rates in the UK.

(I have no experience of eSIMs.)

--
(Remove numerics from email address)

On 8/6/2023 6:42 AM, Dave Royal wrote:
> On 6 Aug 2023 14:13:06 +0200 Carlos E.R. wrote:
>>
>> As I am from "here", meaning, the EU union, I have no experience with
>> getting a "local" SIM on Britain or Germany (I have my own permanent
>> card which is supposed to work on the entire union). Britain is no
>> longer on the EU, so a card bought there _might_ not work on Germany.
>> Better ask.
>>
> Technically, UK SIMs and EU ones are the same. A SIM bought in the UK will
> work accross Europe - and beyond.

Pre-Brexit that was the case. Now, as you stated, many UK providers no
longer provide the same features in terms of EU roaming.

--
“If you are not an expert on a subject, then your opinions about it
really do matter less than the opinions of experts. It's not
indoctrination nor elitism. It's just that you don't know as much as
they do about the subject.”—Tin Foil Awards

On 6 Aug 2023 14:06:39 +0200 Carlos E.R. wrote:
>On 2023-08-06 09:02, Dave Royal wrote:
>> On 6 Aug 2023 02:43:23 -0000 (UTC) Boris wrote:
>>>
>>> news:2333pjxjag.ln2@Telcontar.valinor:
>>>
>>> All of my European and UK relatives use WhatsApp. So, I was thinking
>>> maybe I should just do the same so as not to be 'difficult'. I read
>>> that to use WhatsApp, one needs internet...
>>>
>> It sounds like you've not used WhatsApp. I suggest you familiarise
>> yourself with it and try out its features before you go. You don't have to
>> be a member of FaceBook, BTW.
>>
>> 'All' your European relatives, which of course includes those of them in
>> the UK, may 'use' WhatsApp, but I expect not everyone will use it for the
>> same things. I suspect (and I have no evidence for this except observation
>> of my own family) that many more people use the group chat feature than
>> use individual chat, and many people never use it for voice or video
>> calls. It depends on the iPhone/Android mix and people's ages.
>>
>> So setting up a WhatsApp group to tell people how you're doing, and ask
>> questions on routes, would work fine, but an old-fashioned phone call or
>> text will be more reliable in other situations.
>
>Many people never use groups on WhatsApp. To us, WA is just a glorified
>SMS Messaging app, you can use it just the same :-)
>
Which is a neat illustration of my point to Boris - WhatsApp has very many
users but 'using WhatsApp' means different things to each of them.

I don't think of WA Chat as being equivalent to an SMS, though obviously
they are both messaging systems. Sent me an SMS and I'll probably read it
right away, if I have the phone with me. Send me a WA chat and I might
notice it the same day: I don't have alerts turned on for WA because I
don't think of WA messages as potentially important.

But every sender and message recipient will have their own modus operandi.
I do make WA voice calls if I have a good wifi signal, in a shop for
instance.

--
(Remove numerics from email address)

On 7/24/2023 1:21 PM, Carlos E.R. wrote:

> Typically the best thing is to have a phone with dual SIMs, and buy a
> prepaid SIM on Europe for the duration.

It's now a hassle in terms of European SIM cards if you're visiting both
the UK and an EU country. Roaming policies have changed with limits on data.

In Europe, most people are using WhatsApp for voice calls and messaging
because of the high cost of voice calls due to "Caller Pays." You still
want to have a phone number in the EU with prepaid and avoid data-only
SIMs and eSIMs. Or rent an incoming EU number from Localphone if you
have a data-only SIM or eSIM.

--
“If you are not an expert on a subject, then your opinions about it
really do matter less than the opinions of experts. It's not
indoctrination nor elitism. It's just that you don't know as much as
they do about the subject.”—Tin Foil Awards

sms <scharf.steven@geemail.com> wrote:
> On 8/6/2023 6:42 AM, Dave Royal wrote:
>> On 6 Aug 2023 14:13:06 +0200 Carlos E.R. wrote:
>>>
>>> As I am from "here", meaning, the EU union, I have no experience with
>>> getting a "local" SIM on Britain or Germany (I have my own permanent
>>> card which is supposed to work on the entire union). Britain is no
>>> longer on the EU, so a card bought there _might_ not work on Germany.
>>> Better ask.
>>>
>> Technically, UK SIMs and EU ones are the same. A SIM bought in the UK will
>> work accross Europe - and beyond.
>
> Pre-Brexit that was the case. Now, as you stated, many UK providers no
> longer provide the same features in terms of EU roaming.

The features haven't changed. Costs have (for some).

On 2023-08-06 18:24, Dave Royal wrote:
> On 6 Aug 2023 14:06:39 +0200 Carlos E.R. wrote:
>> On 2023-08-06 09:02, Dave Royal wrote:
>>> On 6 Aug 2023 02:43:23 -0000 (UTC) Boris wrote:
>>>>
>>>> news:2333pjxjag.ln2@Telcontar.valinor:
>>>>
>>>> All of my European and UK relatives use WhatsApp. So, I was thinking
>>>> maybe I should just do the same so as not to be 'difficult'. I read
>>>> that to use WhatsApp, one needs internet...
>>>>
>>> It sounds like you've not used WhatsApp. I suggest you familiarise
>>> yourself with it and try out its features before you go. You don't have to
>>> be a member of FaceBook, BTW.
>>>
>>> 'All' your European relatives, which of course includes those of them in
>>> the UK, may 'use' WhatsApp, but I expect not everyone will use it for the
>>> same things. I suspect (and I have no evidence for this except observation
>>> of my own family) that many more people use the group chat feature than
>>> use individual chat, and many people never use it for voice or video
>>> calls. It depends on the iPhone/Android mix and people's ages.
>>>
>>> So setting up a WhatsApp group to tell people how you're doing, and ask
>>> questions on routes, would work fine, but an old-fashioned phone call or
>>> text will be more reliable in other situations.
>>
>> Many people never use groups on WhatsApp. To us, WA is just a glorified
>> SMS Messaging app, you can use it just the same :-)
>>
> Which is a neat illustration of my point to Boris - WhatsApp has very many
> users but 'using WhatsApp' means different things to each of them.
>
> I don't think of WA Chat as being equivalent to an SMS, though obviously
> they are both messaging systems. Sent me an SMS and I'll probably read it
> right away, if I have the phone with me. Send me a WA chat and I might
> notice it the same day: I don't have alerts turned on for WA because I
> don't think of WA messages as potentially important.

Here (Spain) it is usually the reverse. Only commercial entities use
SMS, so they are mostly spam, while an WA will be private, from family
or friends, thus important and sometimes even urgent.

> But every sender and message recipient will have their own modus operandi.
> I do make WA voice calls if I have a good wifi signal, in a shop for
> instance.

I find WA video calls convenient.

--
Cheers, Carlos.

On 6 Aug 2023 23:34:08 +0200 Carlos E.R. wrote:

>Here (Spain) it is usually the reverse. Only commercial entities use
>SMS, so they are mostly spam, while an WA will be private, from family
>or friends, thus important and sometimes even urgent.

I doubt if it's a national characteristic. I think it's more likely habit,
evolved within a family or a circle of friends. Most of my family use
iPhones, including me because they give me old ones, whereas I started on
Android.

Yes, SMS is used by commercial entities, but some of that is worth reading
immediately - impending deliveries, imminent medical appointments... Some
is spam - invitations to review something you've just bought for example -
but not much. If I send an SMS "arriving 5 minutes" people usually get it.
(And because I have an iPhone I turn iMessage off to ensure it /is/ sent
as an SMS, but that's OT.)

And yes, a WhatsApp Chat message will be personal. But not important: the
word 'chat' in English implies unimportance: it's why I've never thought
of it as a 'message'. What word is used in Spain for that feature of
WhatsApp? Maybe there /are/ national differences?

--
(Remove numerics from email address)

Am 07.08.23 um 09:06 schrieb Dave Royal:
> I doubt if it's a national characteristic. I think it's more likely habit,
> evolved within a family or a circle of friends. Most of my family use
> iPhones, including me because they give me old ones, whereas I started on
> Android.
>
> Yes, SMS is used by commercial entities, but some of that is worth reading
> immediately - impending deliveries, imminent medical appointments...

I totally agree. WA is Zuckerberg proprietary crap. Not standardised and
at best in private circles accepted that agree to use it. Professional
organisations do not use it.

--
Alea iacta est

On 07/08/2023 09:13, Jörg Lorenz wrote:
>
> Am 07.08.23 um 09:06 schrieb Dave Royal:
>>
>> I doubt if it's a national characteristic. I think it's more likely habit,
>> evolved within a family or a circle of friends. Most of my family use
>> iPhones, including me because they give me old ones, whereas I started on
>> Android.
>>
>> Yes, SMS is used by commercial entities, but some of that is worth reading
>> immediately - impending deliveries, imminent medical appointments...
>
> I totally agree. WA is Zuckerberg proprietary crap. Not standardised and
> at best in private circles accepted that agree to use it. Professional
> organisations do not use it.

Which makes the current UK government 'unprofessional'! Unfortunately,
that seems a fair and accurate description :-(

--

Fake news kills!

I may be contacted via the contact address given on my website:
www.macfh.co.uk

Dave Royal <dave@dave123royal.com> wrote:
[...]
> And yes, a WhatsApp Chat message will be personal. But not important: the
> word 'chat' in English implies unimportance: it's why I've never thought
> of it as a 'message'. What word is used in Spain for that feature of
> WhatsApp? Maybe there /are/ national differences?

You might be surprised to learn that here in The Netherlands, 'app' -
derived from WhatsApp - is both a verb and a noun, like '[to] text' is
used in the US (and AU, others?).

AFAIC, and that probably goes for most/all people, as with SMS,
e-mail, phone calls, <whatever>, the importance does not lie in the
medium used, but in the content of the message.

On 2023-08-07 09:06, Dave Royal wrote:
> On 6 Aug 2023 23:34:08 +0200 Carlos E.R. wrote:
>
>> Here (Spain) it is usually the reverse. Only commercial entities use
>> SMS, so they are mostly spam, while an WA will be private, from family
>> or friends, thus important and sometimes even urgent.
>
> I doubt if it's a national characteristic. I think it's more likely habit,
> evolved within a family or a circle of friends. Most of my family use
> iPhones, including me because they give me old ones, whereas I started on
> Android.
>
> Yes, SMS is used by commercial entities, but some of that is worth reading
> immediately - impending deliveries, imminent medical appointments... Some
> is spam - invitations to review something you've just bought for example -
> but not much. If I send an SMS "arriving 5 minutes" people usually get it.
> (And because I have an iPhone I turn iMessage off to ensure it /is/ sent
> as an SMS, but that's OT.)
>
> And yes, a WhatsApp Chat message will be personal. But not important: the
> word 'chat' in English implies unimportance: it's why I've never thought
> of it as a 'message'. What word is used in Spain for that feature of
> WhatsApp? Maybe there /are/ national differences?

We say "uasap" which is what "whatsapp" sounds like in Spanish when
speaking fast. Written "wasap".

There are national differences, because here the tool is extremely
popular, it has displaced SMS which "nobody" uses, except commercial
entities. Sure, it can be important things.

It is estimated 33 million users here, while population is 47 millions.

The reason is that SMS has a cost, approximately 10..20 cents, except
for those that have a plan that covers it (typically a thousand SMS
free). But not everybody has free sms here, I personally know people
which have to pay each SMS they send. Meanwhile, WhatsApp is free as
long as you have internet, be it via phone data or WiFi. The telcos did
not react in time and they lost the text market.

--
Cheers, Carlos.

On Mon, 7 Aug 2023 15:45:42 +0200, "Carlos E.R."
<robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:

>On 2023-08-07 09:06, Dave Royal wrote:
>> On 6 Aug 2023 23:34:08 +0200 Carlos E.R. wrote:
>>
>>> Here (Spain) it is usually the reverse. Only commercial entities use
>>> SMS, so they are mostly spam, while an WA will be private, from family
>>> or friends, thus important and sometimes even urgent.
>>
>> I doubt if it's a national characteristic. I think it's more likely habit,
>> evolved within a family or a circle of friends. Most of my family use
>> iPhones, including me because they give me old ones, whereas I started on
>> Android.
>>
>> Yes, SMS is used by commercial entities, but some of that is worth reading
>> immediately - impending deliveries, imminent medical appointments... Some
>> is spam - invitations to review something you've just bought for example -
>> but not much. If I send an SMS "arriving 5 minutes" people usually get it.
>> (And because I have an iPhone I turn iMessage off to ensure it /is/ sent
>> as an SMS, but that's OT.)
>>
>> And yes, a WhatsApp Chat message will be personal. But not important: the
>> word 'chat' in English implies unimportance: it's why I've never thought
>> of it as a 'message'. What word is used in Spain for that feature of
>> WhatsApp? Maybe there /are/ national differences?
>
>We say "uasap" which is what "whatsapp" sounds like in Spanish when
>speaking fast. Written "wasap".

Wasup, Doc?

Java Jive <java@evij.com.invalid> wrote:
> On 07/08/2023 09:13, Jörg Lorenz wrote:
>>
>> Am 07.08.23 um 09:06 schrieb Dave Royal:
>>>
>>> I doubt if it's a national characteristic. I think it's more likely habit,
>>> evolved within a family or a circle of friends. Most of my family use
>>> iPhones, including me because they give me old ones, whereas I started on
>>> Android.
>>>
>>> Yes, SMS is used by commercial entities, but some of that is worth reading
>>> immediately - impending deliveries, imminent medical appointments...
>>
>> I totally agree. WA is Zuckerberg proprietary crap. Not standardised and
>> at best in private circles accepted that agree to use it. Professional
>> organisations do not use it.
>
> Which makes the current UK government 'unprofessional'! Unfortunately,
> that seems a fair and accurate description :-(

Yeah, it's depressing that UKgov is run via WA. The former health secretary
recently had 100,000 messages leaked by a journalist. The former Prime
Minister tried avoid releasing his messages to enquiry by saying he forgot
his PIN.

Unprofessional doesn't begin to describe it.

Surely the UK has enough tech nouse to create its own messaging app.

On 2023-08-07 10:13, Jörg Lorenz wrote:
> Am 07.08.23 um 09:06 schrieb Dave Royal:
>> I doubt if it's a national characteristic. I think it's more likely habit,
>> evolved within a family or a circle of friends. Most of my family use
>> iPhones, including me because they give me old ones, whereas I started on
>> Android.
>>
>> Yes, SMS is used by commercial entities, but some of that is worth reading
>> immediately - impending deliveries, imminent medical appointments...
>
> I totally agree. WA is Zuckerberg proprietary crap. Not standardised and
> at best in private circles accepted that agree to use it. Professional
> organisations do not use it.

LOL.

We proved to you that many professional organizations DO use WhatsApp.
Do we start again that silliness?

Quick examples:

https://social.klm.com/whatsapp

https://www.iberia.com/es/whatsapp-iberia/

https://wwws.airfrance.com.cn/en/information/prepare/services/reseaux-sociaux

https://bb.usembassy.gov/u-s-embassy-bridgetown-says-whats-up-on-whatsapp/

--
Cheers, Carlos.

Am 07.08.23 um 22:45 schrieb Carlos E.R.:
> On 2023-08-07 10:13, Jörg Lorenz wrote:
>> Am 07.08.23 um 09:06 schrieb Dave Royal:
>>> I doubt if it's a national characteristic. I think it's more likely habit,
>>> evolved within a family or a circle of friends. Most of my family use
>>> iPhones, including me because they give me old ones, whereas I started on
>>> Android.
>>>
>>> Yes, SMS is used by commercial entities, but some of that is worth reading
>>> immediately - impending deliveries, imminent medical appointments...
>>
>> I totally agree. WA is Zuckerberg proprietary crap. Not standardised and
>> at best in private circles accepted that agree to use it. Professional
>> organisations do not use it.
>
>
> LOL.
>
> We proved to you that many professional organizations DO use WhatsApp.
> Do we start again that silliness?

Porfessionals do not use undocumented and proprietary ways of
communication. And you know that very well but you are a fanboy of this
Zuckerberg crap for years.

--
Alea iacta est

Jörg Lorenz <hugybear@gmx.ch> wrote:
> Am 07.08.23 um 22:45 schrieb Carlos E.R.:
>> On 2023-08-07 10:13, Jörg Lorenz wrote:
>>> Am 07.08.23 um 09:06 schrieb Dave Royal:
>>>> I doubt if it's a national characteristic. I think it's more likely habit,
>>>> evolved within a family or a circle of friends. Most of my family use
>>>> iPhones, including me because they give me old ones, whereas I started on
>>>> Android.
>>>>
>>>> Yes, SMS is used by commercial entities, but some of that is worth reading
>>>> immediately - impending deliveries, imminent medical appointments...
>>>
>>> I totally agree. WA is Zuckerberg proprietary crap. Not standardised and
>>> at best in private circles accepted that agree to use it. Professional
>>> organisations do not use it.
>>
>>
>> LOL.
>>
>> We proved to you that many professional organizations DO use WhatsApp.
>> Do we start again that silliness?
>
> Porfessionals do not use undocumented and proprietary ways of
> communication.

The reality says otherwise.