I usually notice bicycles around me. Perhaps not their trade names but at least the materials they are made out of. Up until recently carbon fiber was all the rage with people that rode fast wearing full kit.

But over the last month and having nothing to do with the fact that I am riding titanium I am seeing more and more people on titanium bikes, Last Thursday I ran into a guy I used to ride with decades ago and he was riding a Merlin. Yesterday as I rode up to the store, a young man in full racing kit came around the corner riding what was probably a Lynskey from the proportions of it. I didn't get a chance to see if it also had disks which would put a purchase date on it. I've also watched people passing me up while I'm riding and they are either riding steel bikes or painted titanium.

One of the values of these things is that they are highly unlikely to break.. Though most of them have carbon fiber forks. But these sorts of forks do not have multidirectional loading and are built pretty heavily so I expect they're pretty strong. I had a Time for so many years that I can't remember when I bought it though it was new. The fork on it if anything was far too stiff. Most of the Looks I owned were also in that category. Especially the newer ones with the 1 1/8" forks or tapered. Aside from my 1st generation carbon fork, I haven't seen forks fail except in car collisions.

Who is going to show a picture from a Grand Tour of a bike with a 3 ounce fork that failed? A normal all carbon fork is about 9/10's of a lb.

But back on subject, more and more people are seeing carbon fiber failures and one of the engineers, Peak Torque, (a real one, unlike Frank) showed his calculations of how an aluminum frame is just slightly weaker than a carbon frame per unit weight and with far less chance of breaking.

Can you make a reliable carbon fiber frame? Absolutely - but they they aren't light and what is selling carbon fiber is their lack of weight. When someone that isn't a particularly experienced rider is pitched an expensive bike, they invariably talk about the weight being important. Which to a certain extent it is. But I haven't any problem climbing STEEP bills with my 20+ lb bike which starts as a 19 lb.er but then you add a flat kit and a water bottle.

Remember when Frank tried to convince us that this shouldn't be more than a half lb? Frank could magically change the weight of water or after telling us that he has a steel touring bike with racks on it imply that a flat kit should weigh half lb. while he is carrying his in a handlebar bag.

I'm not trying to pick on Frank other than to point out the fact that his attempting to tell us that the absolutely normal 1 1/2 lb, water bottle and flat kit should be lighter was silly.

So now that more and more people are seeing that weight is only partially important we are seeing a return to more reliable construction elements.

If you're thinking about buying a new bike and you're not a racer, weight should not be at the top of your list.

On 10/10/2021 12:26 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
>
> Remember when Frank tried to convince us that this shouldn't be more than a half lb? Frank could magically change the weight of water or after telling us that he has a steel touring bike with racks on it imply that a flat kit should weigh half lb. while he is carrying his in a handlebar bag.
>
> I'm not trying to pick on Frank other than to point out the fact that his attempting to tell us that the absolutely normal 1 1/2 lb, water bottle and flat kit should be lighter was silly.

You might consider discussing what I've actually said, rather than what
you imagine or "remember" I said.

This is the internet. My posts are archived, for those intelligent
enough to find them.

--
- Frank Krygowski

On Sunday, October 10, 2021 at 12:13:53 PM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> On 10/10/2021 12:26 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
> >
> > Remember when Frank tried to convince us that this shouldn't be more than a half lb? Frank could magically change the weight of water or after telling us that he has a steel touring bike with racks on it imply that a flat kit should weigh half lb. while he is carrying his in a handlebar bag.
> >
> > I'm not trying to pick on Frank other than to point out the fact that his attempting to tell us that the absolutely normal 1 1/2 lb, water bottle and flat kit should be lighter was silly.
> You might consider discussing what I've actually said, rather than what
> you imagine or "remember" I said.
>
> This is the internet. My posts are archived, for those intelligent
> enough to find them.
Frank, that was such a preposterous thing you said that it stuck very well in my memory. You said that 1 1/2 lbs for a water bottle and a flat kit was way heavy. Don't try to back out of it now to change the subject from your idea that black or other dull colors are just as safe as yellow, orange, red and the like

Or you could always pull a Newsy and pretend that there is something magic about the color yellow and not just the fact that it is a good contrast with the road.

On 10/10/2021 5:02 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
> On Sunday, October 10, 2021 at 12:13:53 PM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>> On 10/10/2021 12:26 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
>>>
>>> Remember when Frank tried to convince us that this shouldn't be more than a half lb? Frank could magically change the weight of water or after telling us that he has a steel touring bike with racks on it imply that a flat kit should weigh half lb. while he is carrying his in a handlebar bag.
>>>
>>> I'm not trying to pick on Frank other than to point out the fact that his attempting to tell us that the absolutely normal 1 1/2 lb, water bottle and flat kit should be lighter was silly.
>> You might consider discussing what I've actually said, rather than what
>> you imagine or "remember" I said.
>>
>> This is the internet. My posts are archived, for those intelligent
>> enough to find them.
> Frank, that was such a preposterous thing you said that it stuck very well in my memory. You said that 1 1/2 lbs for a water bottle and a flat kit was way heavy. Don't try to back out of it now to change the subject from your idea that black or other dull colors are just as safe as yellow, orange, red and the like

You need to stop trusting your "memory."

As I recall, I weighed my tube, patch kit, multi-tool and tire irons. I
just did it again; twelve ounces, or ~350 grams. I'm sure I didn't
include a full water bottle, since that's 1.5 pounds on its own.

But you can prove me wrong. Just give a link to my post. Nobody believes
your "memory," Tom.

--
- Frank Krygowski

On Sunday, October 10, 2021 at 2:26:37 PM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> On 10/10/2021 5:02 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
> > On Sunday, October 10, 2021 at 12:13:53 PM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> >> On 10/10/2021 12:26 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Remember when Frank tried to convince us that this shouldn't be more than a half lb? Frank could magically change the weight of water or after telling us that he has a steel touring bike with racks on it imply that a flat kit should weigh half lb. while he is carrying his in a handlebar bag.
> >>>
> >>> I'm not trying to pick on Frank other than to point out the fact that his attempting to tell us that the absolutely normal 1 1/2 lb, water bottle and flat kit should be lighter was silly.
> >> You might consider discussing what I've actually said, rather than what
> >> you imagine or "remember" I said.
> >>
> >> This is the internet. My posts are archived, for those intelligent
> >> enough to find them.
> > Frank, that was such a preposterous thing you said that it stuck very well in my memory. You said that 1 1/2 lbs for a water bottle and a flat kit was way heavy. Don't try to back out of it now to change the subject from your idea that black or other dull colors are just as safe as yellow, orange, red and the like
> You need to stop trusting your "memory."
>
> As I recall, I weighed my tube, patch kit, multi-tool and tire irons. I
> just did it again; twelve ounces, or ~350 grams. I'm sure I didn't
> include a full water bottle, since that's 1.5 pounds on its own.
>
> But you can prove me wrong. Just give a link to my post. Nobody believes
> your "memory," Tom.

May, rather than trusting your own memory you can simply read what I wrote? My flat kit is half a lb. That is 8 ounces for those like you that is mathematically challenged.

On 10/11/2021 12:36 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
> On Sunday, October 10, 2021 at 2:26:37 PM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>> On 10/10/2021 5:02 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
>>> On Sunday, October 10, 2021 at 12:13:53 PM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>>>> On 10/10/2021 12:26 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Remember when Frank tried to convince us that this shouldn't be more than a half lb? Frank could magically change the weight of water or after telling us that he has a steel touring bike with racks on it imply that a flat kit should weigh half lb. while he is carrying his in a handlebar bag.
>>>>>
>>>>> I'm not trying to pick on Frank other than to point out the fact that his attempting to tell us that the absolutely normal 1 1/2 lb, water bottle and flat kit should be lighter was silly.
>>>> You might consider discussing what I've actually said, rather than what
>>>> you imagine or "remember" I said.
>>>>
>>>> This is the internet. My posts are archived, for those intelligent
>>>> enough to find them.
>>> Frank, that was such a preposterous thing you said that it stuck very well in my memory. You said that 1 1/2 lbs for a water bottle and a flat kit was way heavy. Don't try to back out of it now to change the subject from your idea that black or other dull colors are just as safe as yellow, orange, red and the like
>> You need to stop trusting your "memory."
>>
>> As I recall, I weighed my tube, patch kit, multi-tool and tire irons. I
>> just did it again; twelve ounces, or ~350 grams. I'm sure I didn't
>> include a full water bottle, since that's 1.5 pounds on its own.
>>
>> But you can prove me wrong. Just give a link to my post. Nobody believes
>> your "memory," Tom.
>
> May, rather than trusting your own memory you can simply read what I wrote? My flat kit is half a lb. That is 8 ounces for those like you that is mathematically challenged.

Tom, I don't know whether you're unable to follow the logic of a
conversation, whether you're purposely lying, or whether you're evading
yet again because you know you're wrong.

This was your claim about me: "You said that 1 1/2 lbs for a water
bottle and a flat kit was way heavy."

I did NOT say that. If you believe I did, prove it by supplying a link
to my post.

--
- Frank Krygowski

On Monday, October 11, 2021 at 9:55:02 AM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> On 10/11/2021 12:36 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
> > On Sunday, October 10, 2021 at 2:26:37 PM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> >> On 10/10/2021 5:02 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
> >>> On Sunday, October 10, 2021 at 12:13:53 PM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> >>>> On 10/10/2021 12:26 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Remember when Frank tried to convince us that this shouldn't be more than a half lb? Frank could magically change the weight of water or after telling us that he has a steel touring bike with racks on it imply that a flat kit should weigh half lb. while he is carrying his in a handlebar bag.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> I'm not trying to pick on Frank other than to point out the fact that his attempting to tell us that the absolutely normal 1 1/2 lb, water bottle and flat kit should be lighter was silly.
> >>>> You might consider discussing what I've actually said, rather than what
> >>>> you imagine or "remember" I said.
> >>>>
> >>>> This is the internet. My posts are archived, for those intelligent
> >>>> enough to find them.
> >>> Frank, that was such a preposterous thing you said that it stuck very well in my memory. You said that 1 1/2 lbs for a water bottle and a flat kit was way heavy. Don't try to back out of it now to change the subject from your idea that black or other dull colors are just as safe as yellow, orange, red and the like
> >> You need to stop trusting your "memory."
> >>
> >> As I recall, I weighed my tube, patch kit, multi-tool and tire irons. I
> >> just did it again; twelve ounces, or ~350 grams. I'm sure I didn't
> >> include a full water bottle, since that's 1.5 pounds on its own.
> >>
> >> But you can prove me wrong. Just give a link to my post. Nobody believes
> >> your "memory," Tom.
> >
> > May, rather than trusting your own memory you can simply read what I wrote? My flat kit is half a lb. That is 8 ounces for those like you that is mathematically challenged.
> Tom, I don't know whether you're unable to follow the logic of a
> conversation, whether you're purposely lying, or whether you're evading
> yet again because you know you're wrong.
>
> This was your claim about me: "You said that 1 1/2 lbs for a water
> bottle and a flat kit was way heavy."
> I did NOT say that. If you believe I did, prove it by supplying a link
> to my post.
Frank you said EXACTLY that because I immediately went out and weighed my gear. A normal water bottle weighs between one and one point three lbs depending on the exact size and what the bottle is made out of. As I said, a HEAVY flat kit is half a lb.

Your bullshit claim that you didn't say that is your typical "prove it" crap. I have no intentions of going back through a thousand of your messages saying things that no sane person would say to quote you.

On 10/11/2021 4:48 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
> On Monday, October 11, 2021 at 9:55:02 AM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>> On 10/11/2021 12:36 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
>>> On Sunday, October 10, 2021 at 2:26:37 PM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>>>> On 10/10/2021 5:02 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
>>>>> On Sunday, October 10, 2021 at 12:13:53 PM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>>>>>> On 10/10/2021 12:26 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Remember when Frank tried to convince us that this shouldn't be more than a half lb? Frank could magically change the weight of water or after telling us that he has a steel touring bike with racks on it imply that a flat kit should weigh half lb. while he is carrying his in a handlebar bag.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I'm not trying to pick on Frank other than to point out the fact that his attempting to tell us that the absolutely normal 1 1/2 lb, water bottle and flat kit should be lighter was silly.
>>>>>> You might consider discussing what I've actually said, rather than what
>>>>>> you imagine or "remember" I said.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> This is the internet. My posts are archived, for those intelligent
>>>>>> enough to find them.
>>>>> Frank, that was such a preposterous thing you said that it stuck very well in my memory. You said that 1 1/2 lbs for a water bottle and a flat kit was way heavy. Don't try to back out of it now to change the subject from your idea that black or other dull colors are just as safe as yellow, orange, red and the like
>>>> You need to stop trusting your "memory."
>>>>
>>>> As I recall, I weighed my tube, patch kit, multi-tool and tire irons. I
>>>> just did it again; twelve ounces, or ~350 grams. I'm sure I didn't
>>>> include a full water bottle, since that's 1.5 pounds on its own.
>>>>
>>>> But you can prove me wrong. Just give a link to my post. Nobody believes
>>>> your "memory," Tom.
>>>
>>> May, rather than trusting your own memory you can simply read what I wrote? My flat kit is half a lb. That is 8 ounces for those like you that is mathematically challenged.
>> Tom, I don't know whether you're unable to follow the logic of a
>> conversation, whether you're purposely lying, or whether you're evading
>> yet again because you know you're wrong.
>>
>> This was your claim about me: "You said that 1 1/2 lbs for a water
>> bottle and a flat kit was way heavy."
>> I did NOT say that. If you believe I did, prove it by supplying a link
>> to my post.
> Frank you said EXACTLY that because I immediately went out and weighed my gear. A normal water bottle weighs between one and one point three lbs depending on the exact size and what the bottle is made out of. As I said, a HEAVY flat kit is half a lb.
>
> Your bullshit claim that you didn't say that is your typical "prove it" crap. I have no intentions of going back through a thousand of your messages saying things that no sane person would say to quote you.

There is only one person here who trusts your "memory," Tom. And he's
pretty whacky.

--
- Frank Krygowski