AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
> On 10/16/2021 5:26 PM, John B. wrote:
>> On Sat, 16 Oct 2021 11:33:52 -0400, Frank Krygowski
>> <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>
>>> On 10/15/2021 10:26 PM, John B. wrote:
>>>> On Fri, 15 Oct 2021 20:42:20 -0500, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 10/15/2021 7:59 PM, John B. wrote:
>>>>>> On Fri, 15 Oct 2021 16:02:57 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
>>>>>> <cyclintom@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Friday, October 15, 2021 at 3:18:31 PM UTC-7, sms wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 10/15/2021 2:10 PM, jbeattie wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> <snip>
>>>>>>>>> Pilots rebelling is another hoax.
>>>>>>>>> https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2021/oct/11/tweets/southwest-airline-pilots-union-deny-claims-anti-va/
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> The number of people protesting and leaving their jobs is tiny --
>>>>>>>>> and idiotic. Anyone with a disability or a legitimate reason for not being
>>>>>>>>> vaccinated is entitled to an accommodation, which usually means routine testing.
>>>>>>>> Do you recall last week when a bunch of right-wing wackos tried to claim
>>>>>>>> that Southwest Airlines cancelled flights were because pilots were
>>>>>>>> opposed to vaccination requirements? The pilots' union, the airline, and
>>>>>>>> the FAA all said that this was nonsense.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The usual cast of right-wing morons, Ted Cruz, Michael Berry, Donald
>>>>>>>> Trump, Benny Johnson, Candace Owens. Lauren Boebert, etc., wasted no
>>>>>>>> time in lying about the situation. It's just what they do. The sad thing
>>>>>>>> is that there are people that actually believe them.
>>>>>>> You simply cannot bare to tell the truth can you? Here is an
>>>>>>> article from NBC which makes some far left communist like you look
>>>>>>> m
>>>>>>> derate. https://www.cnbc.com/2021/10/12/southwest-airlines-reduces-cancellations-after-mass-cancellations-from-staffing-shortage.html
>>>>>> https://www.cnbc.com/2021/10/12/southwest-airlines-reduces-cancellations-after-mass-cancellations-from-staffing-shortage.html
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Reality time again:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Tommy, Do you bother to read the references that you post? I ask as
>>>>>> your reference says, in part:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "The airline said bad weather and air traffic control issues in
>>>>>> Florida kicked off the problems, which snowballed due to its own
>>>>>> staffing shortfall, particularly a lack of backup pilots and flight
>>>>>> attendants to step in when things go wrong."
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> A 'just so' story in that there wasn't bad weather and other
>>>>> airlines run on the same air controller system.
>>>>
>>>> Well, it does go on to say that:
>>>>
>>>> each of the airports it serves in Florida was affected by air traffic
>>>> control delays, “including a seven-hour ground stop at Orlando.” Other
>>>> airlines had relatively small numbers of cancellations compared with
>>>> Southwest.
>>>> Orlando flights were delayed an average of 45 minutes on Friday,
>>>> according to a person familiar with the matter.
>>>>
>>>> and
>>>> Casey Murray, president of the Southwest Airlines Pilots Association,
>>>> which represents the carrier’s more than 9,000 pilots, told CNBC that
>>>> the airline’s poor planning was to blame for the issues. The airline
>>>> has already scaled back its fall schedule due to disruptions
>>>> throughout the summer following complaints from exhausted crew.
>>>
>>> That doesn't matter, John. Ask any right-winger. It just HAS to be
>>> Obama's fault!
>>>
>>> Oops, I mean Biden's fault. But it's still Obama's fault because he ran
>>> with Biden.
>>
>> Probably (:-)
>> But as likely the Naysayers probably can't comprehend how complex it
>> is to schedule flight crews, specifically pilots, in regards to the
>> FAA regulations.
>>
>
> The other airlines seem to have made things work.
>

It looks like Southwest did a little more “Just In Time” optimization to
get the greatest number of flights out of the smallest number of pilots,
which tends to make the entire process prone to turning to shit when a
flight gets delayed or cancelled.

The same “Just In Time” optimization is one reason why supply chain issues
have been so bad lately. Wholesalers don’t have warehouses full of extra
stock lying around, and factories don’t have extra capacity, and even if
they did, their raw materials supply chains are also optimized in the same
manner. Efficient, but brittle.

On Sunday, October 17, 2021 at 8:20:03 AM UTC-7, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Sunday, October 17, 2021 at 7:06:57 AM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
> > On 10/16/2021 5:26 PM, John B. wrote:
> > > On Sat, 16 Oct 2021 11:33:52 -0400, Frank Krygowski
> > > <frkr...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> > >
> > >> On 10/15/2021 10:26 PM, John B. wrote:
> > >>> On Fri, 15 Oct 2021 20:42:20 -0500, AMuzi <a...@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
> > >>>
> > >>>> On 10/15/2021 7:59 PM, John B. wrote:
> > >>>>> On Fri, 15 Oct 2021 16:02:57 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
> > >>>>> <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>> On Friday, October 15, 2021 at 3:18:31 PM UTC-7, sms wrote:
> > >>>>>>> On 10/15/2021 2:10 PM, jbeattie wrote:
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> <snip>
> > >>>>>>>> Pilots rebelling is another hoax. https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2021/oct/11/tweets/southwest-airline-pilots-union-deny-claims-anti-va/
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>> The number of people protesting and leaving their jobs is tiny -- and idiotic. Anyone with a disability or a legitimate reason for not being vaccinated is entitled to an accommodation, which usually means routine testing.
> > >>>>>>> Do you recall last week when a bunch of right-wing wackos tried to claim
> > >>>>>>> that Southwest Airlines cancelled flights were because pilots were
> > >>>>>>> opposed to vaccination requirements? The pilots' union, the airline, and
> > >>>>>>> the FAA all said that this was nonsense.
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> The usual cast of right-wing morons, Ted Cruz, Michael Berry, Donald
> > >>>>>>> Trump, Benny Johnson, Candace Owens. Lauren Boebert, etc., wasted no
> > >>>>>>> time in lying about the situation. It's just what they do. The sad thing
> > >>>>>>> is that there are people that actually believe them.
> > >>>>>> You simply cannot bare to tell the truth can you? Here is an article from NBC which makes some far left communist like you look moderate. https://www.cnbc.com/2021/10/12/southwest-airlines-reduces-cancellations-after-mass-cancellations-from-staffing-shortage.html
> > >>>>> https://www.cnbc.com/2021/10/12/southwest-airlines-reduces-cancellations-after-mass-cancellations-from-staffing-shortage.html
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> Reality time again:
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> Tommy, Do you bother to read the references that you post? I ask as
> > >>>>> your reference says, in part:
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> "The airline said bad weather and air traffic control issues in
> > >>>>> Florida kicked off the problems, which snowballed due to its own
> > >>>>> staffing shortfall, particularly a lack of backup pilots and flight
> > >>>>> attendants to step in when things go wrong."
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>> A 'just so' story in that there wasn't bad weather and other
> > >>>> airlines run on the same air controller system.
> > >>>
> > >>> Well, it does go on to say that:
> > >>>
> > >>> each of the airports it serves in Florida was affected by air traffic
> > >>> control delays, “including a seven-hour ground stop at Orlando.” Other
> > >>> airlines had relatively small numbers of cancellations compared with
> > >>> Southwest.
> > >>> Orlando flights were delayed an average of 45 minutes on Friday,
> > >>> according to a person familiar with the matter.
> > >>>
> > >>> and
> > >>> Casey Murray, president of the Southwest Airlines Pilots Association,
> > >>> which represents the carrier’s more than 9,000 pilots, told CNBC that
> > >>> the airline’s poor planning was to blame for the issues. The airline
> > >>> has already scaled back its fall schedule due to disruptions
> > >>> throughout the summer following complaints from exhausted crew.
> > >>
> > >> That doesn't matter, John. Ask any right-winger. It just HAS to be
> > >> Obama's fault!
> > >>
> > >> Oops, I mean Biden's fault. But it's still Obama's fault because he ran
> > >> with Biden.
> > >
> > > Probably (:-)
> > > But as likely the Naysayers probably can't comprehend how complex it
> > > is to schedule flight crews, specifically pilots, in regards to the
> > > FAA regulations.
> > >
> > The other airlines seem to have made things work.
> Not according to Russy. The whole world has been stuck under an umbrella of bad weather conditions that only keeps Southwest from flying.

To be clear, are you claiming Southwest's problems were due to a vaccine mandate? If so, that has been debunked. And why hasn't it affected all the other airlines who are under a federal vaccine mandate. I just took an Alaska flight to SLC that was on-time, although we sat around on the grand for half an hour waiting for a gate. The new SLC airport is crazy busy, and it is literally a two mile walk from the gate to ground transportation, which was miserable on bum leg. And why is it that the Embraer 175s don't have any seat power -- and Alaska used to serve free beer, and the prices have skyrocketed! Damn Obama! At least GoGo Inflight had some good movies.

-- Jay Beattie.

On 10/17/2021 11:42 AM, Ralph Barone wrote:
> AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
>> On 10/16/2021 5:26 PM, John B. wrote:
>>> On Sat, 16 Oct 2021 11:33:52 -0400, Frank Krygowski
>>> <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 10/15/2021 10:26 PM, John B. wrote:
>>>>> On Fri, 15 Oct 2021 20:42:20 -0500, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 10/15/2021 7:59 PM, John B. wrote:
>>>>>>> On Fri, 15 Oct 2021 16:02:57 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
>>>>>>> <cyclintom@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Friday, October 15, 2021 at 3:18:31 PM UTC-7, sms wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On 10/15/2021 2:10 PM, jbeattie wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> <snip>
>>>>>>>>>> Pilots rebelling is another hoax.
>>>>>>>>>> https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2021/oct/11/tweets/southwest-airline-pilots-union-deny-claims-anti-va/
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> The number of people protesting and leaving their jobs is tiny --
>>>>>>>>>> and idiotic. Anyone with a disability or a legitimate reason for not being
>>>>>>>>>> vaccinated is entitled to an accommodation, which usually means routine testing.
>>>>>>>>> Do you recall last week when a bunch of right-wing wackos tried to claim
>>>>>>>>> that Southwest Airlines cancelled flights were because pilots were
>>>>>>>>> opposed to vaccination requirements? The pilots' union, the airline, and
>>>>>>>>> the FAA all said that this was nonsense.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> The usual cast of right-wing morons, Ted Cruz, Michael Berry, Donald
>>>>>>>>> Trump, Benny Johnson, Candace Owens. Lauren Boebert, etc., wasted no
>>>>>>>>> time in lying about the situation. It's just what they do. The sad thing
>>>>>>>>> is that there are people that actually believe them.
>>>>>>>> You simply cannot bare to tell the truth can you? Here is an
>>>>>>>> article from NBC which makes some far left communist like you look
>>>>>>>> m
>>>>>>>> derate. https://www.cnbc.com/2021/10/12/southwest-airlines-reduces-cancellations-after-mass-cancellations-from-staffing-shortage.html
>>>>>>> https://www.cnbc.com/2021/10/12/southwest-airlines-reduces-cancellations-after-mass-cancellations-from-staffing-shortage.html
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Reality time again:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Tommy, Do you bother to read the references that you post? I ask as
>>>>>>> your reference says, in part:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> "The airline said bad weather and air traffic control issues in
>>>>>>> Florida kicked off the problems, which snowballed due to its own
>>>>>>> staffing shortfall, particularly a lack of backup pilots and flight
>>>>>>> attendants to step in when things go wrong."
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> A 'just so' story in that there wasn't bad weather and other
>>>>>> airlines run on the same air controller system.
>>>>>
>>>>> Well, it does go on to say that:
>>>>>
>>>>> each of the airports it serves in Florida was affected by air traffic
>>>>> control delays, “including a seven-hour ground stop at Orlando.” Other
>>>>> airlines had relatively small numbers of cancellations compared with
>>>>> Southwest.
>>>>> Orlando flights were delayed an average of 45 minutes on Friday,
>>>>> according to a person familiar with the matter.
>>>>>
>>>>> and
>>>>> Casey Murray, president of the Southwest Airlines Pilots Association,
>>>>> which represents the carrier’s more than 9,000 pilots, told CNBC that
>>>>> the airline’s poor planning was to blame for the issues. The airline
>>>>> has already scaled back its fall schedule due to disruptions
>>>>> throughout the summer following complaints from exhausted crew.
>>>>
>>>> That doesn't matter, John. Ask any right-winger. It just HAS to be
>>>> Obama's fault!
>>>>
>>>> Oops, I mean Biden's fault. But it's still Obama's fault because he ran
>>>> with Biden.
>>>
>>> Probably (:-)
>>> But as likely the Naysayers probably can't comprehend how complex it
>>> is to schedule flight crews, specifically pilots, in regards to the
>>> FAA regulations.
>>>
>>
>> The other airlines seem to have made things work.
>>
>
> It looks like Southwest did a little more “Just In Time” optimization to
> get the greatest number of flights out of the smallest number of pilots,
> which tends to make the entire process prone to turning to shit when a
> flight gets delayed or cancelled.
>
> The same “Just In Time” optimization is one reason why supply chain issues
> have been so bad lately. Wholesalers don’t have warehouses full of extra
> stock lying around, and factories don’t have extra capacity, and even if
> they did, their raw materials supply chains are also optimized in the same
> manner. Efficient, but brittle.

+1

--
- Frank Krygowski

On 10/17/2021 8:42 AM, Ralph Barone wrote:

<snip>

> It looks like Southwest did a little more “Just In Time” optimization to
> get the greatest number of flights out of the smallest number of pilots,
> which tends to make the entire process prone to turning to shit when a
> flight gets delayed or cancelled.

I suspect that most airlines are trying to get the most flights out of
the fewest pilots. Southwest is a little different than other airlines
in that they don't do long-haul domestic or international flights, all
of their flights are relatively short; they only have eight routes that
are more than 2400 miles.
>
> The same “Just In Time” optimization is one reason why supply chain issues
> have been so bad lately. Wholesalers don’t have warehouses full of extra
> stock lying around, and factories don’t have extra capacity, and even if
> they did, their raw materials supply chains are also optimized in the same
> manner. Efficient, but brittle.

There is also a shortage of warehouse space because so many companies
realized the perils of "Just In Time" and began stockpiling parts.

On Sunday, October 17, 2021 at 10:15:42 AM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote:
> On Sunday, October 17, 2021 at 8:20:03 AM UTC-7, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
> > On Sunday, October 17, 2021 at 7:06:57 AM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
> > > On 10/16/2021 5:26 PM, John B. wrote:
> > > > On Sat, 16 Oct 2021 11:33:52 -0400, Frank Krygowski
> > > > <frkr...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> > > >
> > > >> On 10/15/2021 10:26 PM, John B. wrote:
> > > >>> On Fri, 15 Oct 2021 20:42:20 -0500, AMuzi <a...@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
> > > >>>
> > > >>>> On 10/15/2021 7:59 PM, John B. wrote:
> > > >>>>> On Fri, 15 Oct 2021 16:02:57 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
> > > >>>>> <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>>> On Friday, October 15, 2021 at 3:18:31 PM UTC-7, sms wrote:
> > > >>>>>>> On 10/15/2021 2:10 PM, jbeattie wrote:
> > > >>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>> <snip>
> > > >>>>>>>> Pilots rebelling is another hoax. https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2021/oct/11/tweets/southwest-airline-pilots-union-deny-claims-anti-va/
> > > >>>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>> The number of people protesting and leaving their jobs is tiny -- and idiotic. Anyone with a disability or a legitimate reason for not being vaccinated is entitled to an accommodation, which usually means routine testing.
> > > >>>>>>> Do you recall last week when a bunch of right-wing wackos tried to claim
> > > >>>>>>> that Southwest Airlines cancelled flights were because pilots were
> > > >>>>>>> opposed to vaccination requirements? The pilots' union, the airline, and
> > > >>>>>>> the FAA all said that this was nonsense.
> > > >>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>> The usual cast of right-wing morons, Ted Cruz, Michael Berry, Donald
> > > >>>>>>> Trump, Benny Johnson, Candace Owens. Lauren Boebert, etc., wasted no
> > > >>>>>>> time in lying about the situation. It's just what they do. The sad thing
> > > >>>>>>> is that there are people that actually believe them.
> > > >>>>>> You simply cannot bare to tell the truth can you? Here is an article from NBC which makes some far left communist like you look moderate. https://www.cnbc.com/2021/10/12/southwest-airlines-reduces-cancellations-after-mass-cancellations-from-staffing-shortage.html
> > > >>>>> https://www.cnbc.com/2021/10/12/southwest-airlines-reduces-cancellations-after-mass-cancellations-from-staffing-shortage.html
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>> Reality time again:
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>> Tommy, Do you bother to read the references that you post? I ask as
> > > >>>>> your reference says, in part:
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>> "The airline said bad weather and air traffic control issues in
> > > >>>>> Florida kicked off the problems, which snowballed due to its own
> > > >>>>> staffing shortfall, particularly a lack of backup pilots and flight
> > > >>>>> attendants to step in when things go wrong."
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>> A 'just so' story in that there wasn't bad weather and other
> > > >>>> airlines run on the same air controller system.
> > > >>>
> > > >>> Well, it does go on to say that:
> > > >>>
> > > >>> each of the airports it serves in Florida was affected by air traffic
> > > >>> control delays, “including a seven-hour ground stop at Orlando.” Other
> > > >>> airlines had relatively small numbers of cancellations compared with
> > > >>> Southwest.
> > > >>> Orlando flights were delayed an average of 45 minutes on Friday,
> > > >>> according to a person familiar with the matter.
> > > >>>
> > > >>> and
> > > >>> Casey Murray, president of the Southwest Airlines Pilots Association,
> > > >>> which represents the carrier’s more than 9,000 pilots, told CNBC that
> > > >>> the airline’s poor planning was to blame for the issues. The airline
> > > >>> has already scaled back its fall schedule due to disruptions
> > > >>> throughout the summer following complaints from exhausted crew.
> > > >>
> > > >> That doesn't matter, John. Ask any right-winger. It just HAS to be
> > > >> Obama's fault!
> > > >>
> > > >> Oops, I mean Biden's fault. But it's still Obama's fault because he ran
> > > >> with Biden.
> > > >
> > > > Probably (:-)
> > > > But as likely the Naysayers probably can't comprehend how complex it
> > > > is to schedule flight crews, specifically pilots, in regards to the
> > > > FAA regulations.
> > > >
> > > The other airlines seem to have made things work.
> > Not according to Russy. The whole world has been stuck under an umbrella of bad weather conditions that only keeps Southwest from flying.
> To be clear, are you claiming Southwest's problems were due to a vaccine mandate? If so, that has been debunked. And why hasn't it affected all the other airlines who are under a federal vaccine mandate. I just took an Alaska flight to SLC that was on-time, although we sat around on the grand for half an hour waiting for a gate. The new SLC airport is crazy busy, and it is literally a two mile walk from the gate to ground transportation, which was miserable on bum leg. And why is it that the Embraer 175s don't have any seat power -- and Alaska used to serve free beer, and the prices have skyrocketed! Damn Obama! At least GoGo Inflight had some good movies.

Debunked in what manner? The company mandated vaccines and the next three days they had the unions striking and the pilots on a sickout. Then Southwest said that they would not mandate vaccines and BIG SURPRISE, everyone came back to work. But to you that is debunking. Just blame it on "bad weather" that didn't exist. Jay, you're getting brighter by the second.

On 10/17/2021 4:22 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
> On Sunday, October 17, 2021 at 10:15:42 AM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote:
>> On Sunday, October 17, 2021 at 8:20:03 AM UTC-7, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
>>> On Sunday, October 17, 2021 at 7:06:57 AM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
>>>> On 10/16/2021 5:26 PM, John B. wrote:
>>>>> On Sat, 16 Oct 2021 11:33:52 -0400, Frank Krygowski
>>>>> <frkr...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 10/15/2021 10:26 PM, John B. wrote:
>>>>>>> On Fri, 15 Oct 2021 20:42:20 -0500, AMuzi <a...@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 10/15/2021 7:59 PM, John B. wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On Fri, 15 Oct 2021 16:02:57 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
>>>>>>>>> <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On Friday, October 15, 2021 at 3:18:31 PM UTC-7, sms wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> On 10/15/2021 2:10 PM, jbeattie wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> <snip>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Pilots rebelling is another hoax. https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2021/oct/11/tweets/southwest-airline-pilots-union-deny-claims-anti-va/
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> The number of people protesting and leaving their jobs is tiny -- and idiotic. Anyone with a disability or a legitimate reason for not being vaccinated is entitled to an accommodation, which usually means routine testing.
>>>>>>>>>>> Do you recall last week when a bunch of right-wing wackos tried to claim
>>>>>>>>>>> that Southwest Airlines cancelled flights were because pilots were
>>>>>>>>>>> opposed to vaccination requirements? The pilots' union, the airline, and
>>>>>>>>>>> the FAA all said that this was nonsense.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> The usual cast of right-wing morons, Ted Cruz, Michael Berry, Donald
>>>>>>>>>>> Trump, Benny Johnson, Candace Owens. Lauren Boebert, etc., wasted no
>>>>>>>>>>> time in lying about the situation. It's just what they do. The sad thing
>>>>>>>>>>> is that there are people that actually believe them.
>>>>>>>>>> You simply cannot bare to tell the truth can you? Here is an article from NBC which makes some far left communist like you look moderate. https://www.cnbc.com/2021/10/12/southwest-airlines-reduces-cancellations-after-mass-cancellations-from-staffing-shortage.html
>>>>>>>>> https://www.cnbc.com/2021/10/12/southwest-airlines-reduces-cancellations-after-mass-cancellations-from-staffing-shortage.html
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Reality time again:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Tommy, Do you bother to read the references that you post? I ask as
>>>>>>>>> your reference says, in part:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> "The airline said bad weather and air traffic control issues in
>>>>>>>>> Florida kicked off the problems, which snowballed due to its own
>>>>>>>>> staffing shortfall, particularly a lack of backup pilots and flight
>>>>>>>>> attendants to step in when things go wrong."
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> A 'just so' story in that there wasn't bad weather and other
>>>>>>>> airlines run on the same air controller system.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Well, it does go on to say that:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> each of the airports it serves in Florida was affected by air traffic
>>>>>>> control delays, “including a seven-hour ground stop at Orlando.” Other
>>>>>>> airlines had relatively small numbers of cancellations compared with
>>>>>>> Southwest.
>>>>>>> Orlando flights were delayed an average of 45 minutes on Friday,
>>>>>>> according to a person familiar with the matter.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>> Casey Murray, president of the Southwest Airlines Pilots Association,
>>>>>>> which represents the carrier’s more than 9,000 pilots, told CNBC that
>>>>>>> the airline’s poor planning was to blame for the issues. The airline
>>>>>>> has already scaled back its fall schedule due to disruptions
>>>>>>> throughout the summer following complaints from exhausted crew.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> That doesn't matter, John. Ask any right-winger. It just HAS to be
>>>>>> Obama's fault!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Oops, I mean Biden's fault. But it's still Obama's fault because he ran
>>>>>> with Biden.
>>>>>
>>>>> Probably (:-)
>>>>> But as likely the Naysayers probably can't comprehend how complex it
>>>>> is to schedule flight crews, specifically pilots, in regards to the
>>>>> FAA regulations.
>>>>>
>>>> The other airlines seem to have made things work.
>>> Not according to Russy. The whole world has been stuck under an umbrella of bad weather conditions that only keeps Southwest from flying.
>> To be clear, are you claiming Southwest's problems were due to a vaccine mandate? If so, that has been debunked. And why hasn't it affected all the other airlines who are under a federal vaccine mandate. I just took an Alaska flight to SLC that was on-time, although we sat around on the grand for half an hour waiting for a gate. The new SLC airport is crazy busy, and it is literally a two mile walk from the gate to ground transportation, which was miserable on bum leg. And why is it that the Embraer 175s don't have any seat power -- and Alaska used to serve free beer, and the prices have skyrocketed! Damn Obama! At least GoGo Inflight had some good movies.
>
> Debunked in what manner? The company mandated vaccines and the next three days they had the unions striking and the pilots on a sickout. Then Southwest said that they would not mandate vaccines and BIG SURPRISE, everyone came back to work. But to you that is debunking. Just blame it on "bad weather" that didn't exist. Jay, you're getting brighter by the second.
>

Latest from Chicago where citizens can ill afford a serious
drop in police employment:
https://blockclubchicago.org/2021/10/13/chicago-police-union-boss-urges-officers-not-to-tell-city-if-theyre-vaccinated-predicts-50-drop-in-cops/

But hey Mayor Muchkin thinks the mRNA technology is effective:

Down East in VT where volunteer mRNA jabs are extremely
popular, more popular than in Chicago or New York:

"The inoculation rate of eligible Vermonters, last updated
Saturday, shows 88.6% have now gotten at least one vaccine
dose, while more than 79% are fully vaccinated."

from:
https://www.vpr.org/vpr-news/2021-10-11/news-roundup-vermont-health-department-reports-222-new-covid-cases-on-monday

even so:
https://vtdigger.org/2021/10/12/as-vermont-reports-second-highest-covid-case-average-scott-says-i-dont-know-why/

--
Andrew Muzi
<www.yellowjersey.org/>
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On Sunday, October 17, 2021 at 2:22:32 PM UTC-7, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Sunday, October 17, 2021 at 10:15:42 AM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote:
> > On Sunday, October 17, 2021 at 8:20:03 AM UTC-7, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > On Sunday, October 17, 2021 at 7:06:57 AM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
> > > > On 10/16/2021 5:26 PM, John B. wrote:
> > > > > On Sat, 16 Oct 2021 11:33:52 -0400, Frank Krygowski
> > > > > <frkr...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > >> On 10/15/2021 10:26 PM, John B. wrote:
> > > > >>> On Fri, 15 Oct 2021 20:42:20 -0500, AMuzi <a...@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>>> On 10/15/2021 7:59 PM, John B. wrote:
> > > > >>>>> On Fri, 15 Oct 2021 16:02:57 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
> > > > >>>>> <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>>> On Friday, October 15, 2021 at 3:18:31 PM UTC-7, sms wrote:
> > > > >>>>>>> On 10/15/2021 2:10 PM, jbeattie wrote:
> > > > >>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>> <snip>
> > > > >>>>>>>> Pilots rebelling is another hoax. https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2021/oct/11/tweets/southwest-airline-pilots-union-deny-claims-anti-va/
> > > > >>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>> The number of people protesting and leaving their jobs is tiny -- and idiotic. Anyone with a disability or a legitimate reason for not being vaccinated is entitled to an accommodation, which usually means routine testing.
> > > > >>>>>>> Do you recall last week when a bunch of right-wing wackos tried to claim
> > > > >>>>>>> that Southwest Airlines cancelled flights were because pilots were
> > > > >>>>>>> opposed to vaccination requirements? The pilots' union, the airline, and
> > > > >>>>>>> the FAA all said that this was nonsense.
> > > > >>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>> The usual cast of right-wing morons, Ted Cruz, Michael Berry, Donald
> > > > >>>>>>> Trump, Benny Johnson, Candace Owens. Lauren Boebert, etc., wasted no
> > > > >>>>>>> time in lying about the situation. It's just what they do. The sad thing
> > > > >>>>>>> is that there are people that actually believe them.
> > > > >>>>>> You simply cannot bare to tell the truth can you? Here is an article from NBC which makes some far left communist like you look moderate. https://www.cnbc.com/2021/10/12/southwest-airlines-reduces-cancellations-after-mass-cancellations-from-staffing-shortage.html
> > > > >>>>> https://www.cnbc.com/2021/10/12/southwest-airlines-reduces-cancellations-after-mass-cancellations-from-staffing-shortage.html
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>> Reality time again:
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>> Tommy, Do you bother to read the references that you post? I ask as
> > > > >>>>> your reference says, in part:
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>> "The airline said bad weather and air traffic control issues in
> > > > >>>>> Florida kicked off the problems, which snowballed due to its own
> > > > >>>>> staffing shortfall, particularly a lack of backup pilots and flight
> > > > >>>>> attendants to step in when things go wrong."
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>> A 'just so' story in that there wasn't bad weather and other
> > > > >>>> airlines run on the same air controller system.
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>> Well, it does go on to say that:
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>> each of the airports it serves in Florida was affected by air traffic
> > > > >>> control delays, “including a seven-hour ground stop at Orlando.” Other
> > > > >>> airlines had relatively small numbers of cancellations compared with
> > > > >>> Southwest.
> > > > >>> Orlando flights were delayed an average of 45 minutes on Friday,
> > > > >>> according to a person familiar with the matter.
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>> and
> > > > >>> Casey Murray, president of the Southwest Airlines Pilots Association,
> > > > >>> which represents the carrier’s more than 9,000 pilots, told CNBC that
> > > > >>> the airline’s poor planning was to blame for the issues.. The airline
> > > > >>> has already scaled back its fall schedule due to disruptions
> > > > >>> throughout the summer following complaints from exhausted crew.
> > > > >>
> > > > >> That doesn't matter, John. Ask any right-winger. It just HAS to be
> > > > >> Obama's fault!
> > > > >>
> > > > >> Oops, I mean Biden's fault. But it's still Obama's fault because he ran
> > > > >> with Biden.
> > > > >
> > > > > Probably (:-)
> > > > > But as likely the Naysayers probably can't comprehend how complex it
> > > > > is to schedule flight crews, specifically pilots, in regards to the
> > > > > FAA regulations.
> > > > >
> > > > The other airlines seem to have made things work.
> > > Not according to Russy. The whole world has been stuck under an umbrella of bad weather conditions that only keeps Southwest from flying.
> > To be clear, are you claiming Southwest's problems were due to a vaccine mandate? If so, that has been debunked. And why hasn't it affected all the other airlines who are under a federal vaccine mandate. I just took an Alaska flight to SLC that was on-time, although we sat around on the grand for half an hour waiting for a gate. The new SLC airport is crazy busy, and it is literally a two mile walk from the gate to ground transportation, which was miserable on bum leg. And why is it that the Embraer 175s don't have any seat power -- and Alaska used to serve free beer, and the prices have skyrocketed! Damn Obama! At least GoGo Inflight had some good movies.
> Debunked in what manner? The company mandated vaccines and the next three days they had the unions striking and the pilots on a sickout. Then Southwest said that they would not mandate vaccines and BIG SURPRISE, everyone came back to work. But to you that is debunking. Just blame it on "bad weather" that didn't exist. Jay, you're getting brighter by the second.

Well at least one of us is getting brighter. You're getting stupider by the second. See, once again: https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/factcheck/2021/10/11/fact-check-canceled-flights-not-because-organized-walkout/6091980001/ You just keep repeating these memes because they are somehow satisfying to you, perhaps for pathological reasons.

And again, its a federal mandate, more or less, applicable to all federal contractors, meaning most of the major airlines:

". . . the largest pilots association and most major carriers — United Airlines, American Airlines, Southwest Airlines, JetBlue, Alaska Airlines and Hawaiian Airlines — confirm they will follow President Biden's executive order requiring workers to get the shots. " https://www.cbsnews.com/news/covid-19-vaccine-mandate-major-airlines/

-- Jay Beattie.

On Sunday, October 17, 2021 at 2:43:10 PM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
> On 10/17/2021 4:22 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
> > On Sunday, October 17, 2021 at 10:15:42 AM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote:
> >> On Sunday, October 17, 2021 at 8:20:03 AM UTC-7, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
> >>> On Sunday, October 17, 2021 at 7:06:57 AM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
> >>>> On 10/16/2021 5:26 PM, John B. wrote:
> >>>>> On Sat, 16 Oct 2021 11:33:52 -0400, Frank Krygowski
> >>>>> <frkr...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> On 10/15/2021 10:26 PM, John B. wrote:
> >>>>>>> On Fri, 15 Oct 2021 20:42:20 -0500, AMuzi <a...@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> On 10/15/2021 7:59 PM, John B. wrote:
> >>>>>>>>> On Fri, 15 Oct 2021 16:02:57 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
> >>>>>>>>> <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> On Friday, October 15, 2021 at 3:18:31 PM UTC-7, sms wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>> On 10/15/2021 2:10 PM, jbeattie wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> <snip>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> Pilots rebelling is another hoax. https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2021/oct/11/tweets/southwest-airline-pilots-union-deny-claims-anti-va/
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> The number of people protesting and leaving their jobs is tiny -- and idiotic. Anyone with a disability or a legitimate reason for not being vaccinated is entitled to an accommodation, which usually means routine testing.
> >>>>>>>>>>> Do you recall last week when a bunch of right-wing wackos tried to claim
> >>>>>>>>>>> that Southwest Airlines cancelled flights were because pilots were
> >>>>>>>>>>> opposed to vaccination requirements? The pilots' union, the airline, and
> >>>>>>>>>>> the FAA all said that this was nonsense.
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> The usual cast of right-wing morons, Ted Cruz, Michael Berry, Donald
> >>>>>>>>>>> Trump, Benny Johnson, Candace Owens. Lauren Boebert, etc., wasted no
> >>>>>>>>>>> time in lying about the situation. It's just what they do. The sad thing
> >>>>>>>>>>> is that there are people that actually believe them.
> >>>>>>>>>> You simply cannot bare to tell the truth can you? Here is an article from NBC which makes some far left communist like you look moderate. https://www.cnbc.com/2021/10/12/southwest-airlines-reduces-cancellations-after-mass-cancellations-from-staffing-shortage.html
> >>>>>>>>> https://www.cnbc.com/2021/10/12/southwest-airlines-reduces-cancellations-after-mass-cancellations-from-staffing-shortage.html
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> Reality time again:
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> Tommy, Do you bother to read the references that you post? I ask as
> >>>>>>>>> your reference says, in part:
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> "The airline said bad weather and air traffic control issues in
> >>>>>>>>> Florida kicked off the problems, which snowballed due to its own
> >>>>>>>>> staffing shortfall, particularly a lack of backup pilots and flight
> >>>>>>>>> attendants to step in when things go wrong."
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> A 'just so' story in that there wasn't bad weather and other
> >>>>>>>> airlines run on the same air controller system.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Well, it does go on to say that:
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> each of the airports it serves in Florida was affected by air traffic
> >>>>>>> control delays, “including a seven-hour ground stop at Orlando.†Other
> >>>>>>> airlines had relatively small numbers of cancellations compared with
> >>>>>>> Southwest.
> >>>>>>> Orlando flights were delayed an average of 45 minutes on Friday,
> >>>>>>> according to a person familiar with the matter.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> and
> >>>>>>> Casey Murray, president of the Southwest Airlines Pilots Association,
> >>>>>>> which represents the carrier’s more than 9,000 pilots, told CNBC that
> >>>>>>> the airline’s poor planning was to blame for the issues. The airline
> >>>>>>> has already scaled back its fall schedule due to disruptions
> >>>>>>> throughout the summer following complaints from exhausted crew.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> That doesn't matter, John. Ask any right-winger. It just HAS to be
> >>>>>> Obama's fault!
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Oops, I mean Biden's fault. But it's still Obama's fault because he ran
> >>>>>> with Biden.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Probably (:-)
> >>>>> But as likely the Naysayers probably can't comprehend how complex it
> >>>>> is to schedule flight crews, specifically pilots, in regards to the
> >>>>> FAA regulations.
> >>>>>
> >>>> The other airlines seem to have made things work.
> >>> Not according to Russy. The whole world has been stuck under an umbrella of bad weather conditions that only keeps Southwest from flying.
> >> To be clear, are you claiming Southwest's problems were due to a vaccine mandate? If so, that has been debunked. And why hasn't it affected all the other airlines who are under a federal vaccine mandate. I just took an Alaska flight to SLC that was on-time, although we sat around on the grand for half an hour waiting for a gate. The new SLC airport is crazy busy, and it is literally a two mile walk from the gate to ground transportation, which was miserable on bum leg. And why is it that the Embraer 175s don't have any seat power -- and Alaska used to serve free beer, and the prices have skyrocketed! Damn Obama! At least GoGo Inflight had some good movies.
> >
> > Debunked in what manner? The company mandated vaccines and the next three days they had the unions striking and the pilots on a sickout. Then Southwest said that they would not mandate vaccines and BIG SURPRISE, everyone came back to work. But to you that is debunking. Just blame it on "bad weather" that didn't exist. Jay, you're getting brighter by the second.
> >
> Latest from Chicago where citizens can ill afford a serious
> drop in police employment:
> https://blockclubchicago.org/2021/10/13/chicago-police-union-boss-urges-officers-not-to-tell-city-if-theyre-vaccinated-predicts-50-drop-in-cops/
>
> But hey Mayor Muchkin thinks the mRNA technology is effective:
>
> Down East in VT where volunteer mRNA jabs are extremely
> popular, more popular than in Chicago or New York:
>
> "The inoculation rate of eligible Vermonters, last updated
> Saturday, shows 88.6% have now gotten at least one vaccine
> dose, while more than 79% are fully vaccinated."
>
> from:
> https://www.vpr.org/vpr-news/2021-10-11/news-roundup-vermont-health-department-reports-222-new-covid-cases-on-monday
>
> even so:
> https://vtdigger.org/2021/10/12/as-vermont-reports-second-highest-covid-case-average-scott-says-i-dont-know-why/
>

One myth at a time. I'm talking about the Southwest fiasco. But moving on to Vermont, look at the infection rates for the vaccinated versus unvaccinated. https://vtdigger.org/2021/10/08/vermont-reports-283-new-covid-cases-and-4-deaths-updates-breakthrough-and-outbreak-stats/ The unvaccinated are more than twice as likely to die, and it doesn't even match populations -- e.g., the fully vaccinated population skews old and has more co-morbidities. The gulf between vaccinated and unvaccinated in the otherwise health population is way higher. Any rational person would look at these numbers and get vaccinated. Another missing piece of data is the type of vaccine taken by those who got sick and when the vaccine was given. J&J is not an mRNA vaccine, and is apparently less effective against the Delta variant -- and it loses potency faster than the mRNA vaccines.

On Sun, 17 Oct 2021 09:06:53 -0500, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:

>On 10/16/2021 5:26 PM, John B. wrote:
>> On Sat, 16 Oct 2021 11:33:52 -0400, Frank Krygowski
>> <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>
>>> On 10/15/2021 10:26 PM, John B. wrote:
>>>> On Fri, 15 Oct 2021 20:42:20 -0500, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 10/15/2021 7:59 PM, John B. wrote:
>>>>>> On Fri, 15 Oct 2021 16:02:57 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
>>>>>> <cyclintom@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Friday, October 15, 2021 at 3:18:31 PM UTC-7, sms wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 10/15/2021 2:10 PM, jbeattie wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> <snip>
>>>>>>>>> Pilots rebelling is another hoax. https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2021/oct/11/tweets/southwest-airline-pilots-union-deny-claims-anti-va/
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> The number of people protesting and leaving their jobs is tiny -- and idiotic. Anyone with a disability or a legitimate reason for not being vaccinated is entitled to an accommodation, which usually means routine testing.
>>>>>>>> Do you recall last week when a bunch of right-wing wackos tried to claim
>>>>>>>> that Southwest Airlines cancelled flights were because pilots were
>>>>>>>> opposed to vaccination requirements? The pilots' union, the airline, and
>>>>>>>> the FAA all said that this was nonsense.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The usual cast of right-wing morons, Ted Cruz, Michael Berry, Donald
>>>>>>>> Trump, Benny Johnson, Candace Owens. Lauren Boebert, etc., wasted no
>>>>>>>> time in lying about the situation. It's just what they do. The sad thing
>>>>>>>> is that there are people that actually believe them.
>>>>>>> You simply cannot bare to tell the truth can you? Here is an article from NBC which makes some far left communist like you look moderate. https://www.cnbc.com/2021/10/12/southwest-airlines-reduces-cancellations-after-mass-cancellations-from-staffing-shortage.html
>>>>>> https://www.cnbc.com/2021/10/12/southwest-airlines-reduces-cancellations-after-mass-cancellations-from-staffing-shortage.html
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Reality time again:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Tommy, Do you bother to read the references that you post? I ask as
>>>>>> your reference says, in part:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "The airline said bad weather and air traffic control issues in
>>>>>> Florida kicked off the problems, which snowballed due to its own
>>>>>> staffing shortfall, particularly a lack of backup pilots and flight
>>>>>> attendants to step in when things go wrong."
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> A 'just so' story in that there wasn't bad weather and other
>>>>> airlines run on the same air controller system.
>>>>
>>>> Well, it does go on to say that:
>>>>
>>>> each of the airports it serves in Florida was affected by air traffic
>>>> control delays, “including a seven-hour ground stop at Orlando.” Other
>>>> airlines had relatively small numbers of cancellations compared with
>>>> Southwest.
>>>> Orlando flights were delayed an average of 45 minutes on Friday,
>>>> according to a person familiar with the matter.
>>>>
>>>> and
>>>> Casey Murray, president of the Southwest Airlines Pilots Association,
>>>> which represents the carrier’s more than 9,000 pilots, told CNBC that
>>>> the airline’s poor planning was to blame for the issues. The airline
>>>> has already scaled back its fall schedule due to disruptions
>>>> throughout the summer following complaints from exhausted crew.
>>>
>>> That doesn't matter, John. Ask any right-winger. It just HAS to be
>>> Obama's fault!
>>>
>>> Oops, I mean Biden's fault. But it's still Obama's fault because he ran
>>> with Biden.
>>
>> Probably (:-)
>> But as likely the Naysayers probably can't comprehend how complex it
>> is to schedule flight crews, specifically pilots, in regards to the
>> FAA regulations.
>>
>
>The other airlines seem to have made things work.

Yawn...and some bicycles went out of business and some bicycle shops
staid in town and some bicycle shops moved to cheaper locations...
--
Cheers,

John B.

On Sunday, October 17, 2021 at 10:20:03 AM UTC-5, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Sunday, October 17, 2021 at 7:06:57 AM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
> > On 10/16/2021 5:26 PM, John B. wrote:
> > > On Sat, 16 Oct 2021 11:33:52 -0400, Frank Krygowski
> > > <frkr...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> > >
> > >> On 10/15/2021 10:26 PM, John B. wrote:
> > >>> On Fri, 15 Oct 2021 20:42:20 -0500, AMuzi <a...@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
> > >>>
> > >>>> On 10/15/2021 7:59 PM, John B. wrote:
> > >>>>> On Fri, 15 Oct 2021 16:02:57 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
> > >>>>> <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>> On Friday, October 15, 2021 at 3:18:31 PM UTC-7, sms wrote:
> > >>>>>>> On 10/15/2021 2:10 PM, jbeattie wrote:
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> <snip>
> > >>>>>>>> Pilots rebelling is another hoax. https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2021/oct/11/tweets/southwest-airline-pilots-union-deny-claims-anti-va/
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>> The number of people protesting and leaving their jobs is tiny -- and idiotic. Anyone with a disability or a legitimate reason for not being vaccinated is entitled to an accommodation, which usually means routine testing.
> > >>>>>>> Do you recall last week when a bunch of right-wing wackos tried to claim
> > >>>>>>> that Southwest Airlines cancelled flights were because pilots were
> > >>>>>>> opposed to vaccination requirements? The pilots' union, the airline, and
> > >>>>>>> the FAA all said that this was nonsense.
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> The usual cast of right-wing morons, Ted Cruz, Michael Berry, Donald
> > >>>>>>> Trump, Benny Johnson, Candace Owens. Lauren Boebert, etc., wasted no
> > >>>>>>> time in lying about the situation. It's just what they do. The sad thing
> > >>>>>>> is that there are people that actually believe them.
> > >>>>>> You simply cannot bare to tell the truth can you? Here is an article from NBC which makes some far left communist like you look moderate. https://www.cnbc.com/2021/10/12/southwest-airlines-reduces-cancellations-after-mass-cancellations-from-staffing-shortage.html
> > >>>>> https://www.cnbc.com/2021/10/12/southwest-airlines-reduces-cancellations-after-mass-cancellations-from-staffing-shortage.html
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> Reality time again:
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> Tommy, Do you bother to read the references that you post? I ask as
> > >>>>> your reference says, in part:
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> "The airline said bad weather and air traffic control issues in
> > >>>>> Florida kicked off the problems, which snowballed due to its own
> > >>>>> staffing shortfall, particularly a lack of backup pilots and flight
> > >>>>> attendants to step in when things go wrong."
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>> A 'just so' story in that there wasn't bad weather and other
> > >>>> airlines run on the same air controller system.
> > >>>
> > >>> Well, it does go on to say that:
> > >>>
> > >>> each of the airports it serves in Florida was affected by air traffic
> > >>> control delays, “including a seven-hour ground stop at Orlando.” Other
> > >>> airlines had relatively small numbers of cancellations compared with
> > >>> Southwest.
> > >>> Orlando flights were delayed an average of 45 minutes on Friday,
> > >>> according to a person familiar with the matter.
> > >>>
> > >>> and
> > >>> Casey Murray, president of the Southwest Airlines Pilots Association,
> > >>> which represents the carrier’s more than 9,000 pilots, told CNBC that
> > >>> the airline’s poor planning was to blame for the issues. The airline
> > >>> has already scaled back its fall schedule due to disruptions
> > >>> throughout the summer following complaints from exhausted crew.
> > >>
> > >> That doesn't matter, John. Ask any right-winger. It just HAS to be
> > >> Obama's fault!
> > >>
> > >> Oops, I mean Biden's fault. But it's still Obama's fault because he ran
> > >> with Biden.
> > >
> > > Probably (:-)
> > > But as likely the Naysayers probably can't comprehend how complex it
> > > is to schedule flight crews, specifically pilots, in regards to the
> > > FAA regulations.
> > >
> > The other airlines seem to have made things work.
> Not according to Russy. The whole world has been stuck under an umbrella of bad weather conditions that only keeps Southwest from flying.

Lying again Tommy boy. If you look through all of the prior posts in this thread, you will not find any reference by me to airlines. Yet you include a rude, crude, reference to me in your post. Lying liar Tommy boy.

On 10/17/2021 6:14 PM, jbeattie wrote:
> On Sunday, October 17, 2021 at 2:43:10 PM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
>> On 10/17/2021 4:22 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
>>> On Sunday, October 17, 2021 at 10:15:42 AM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote:
>>>> On Sunday, October 17, 2021 at 8:20:03 AM UTC-7, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
>>>>> On Sunday, October 17, 2021 at 7:06:57 AM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
>>>>>> On 10/16/2021 5:26 PM, John B. wrote:
>>>>>>> On Sat, 16 Oct 2021 11:33:52 -0400, Frank Krygowski
>>>>>>> <frkr...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 10/15/2021 10:26 PM, John B. wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On Fri, 15 Oct 2021 20:42:20 -0500, AMuzi <a...@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On 10/15/2021 7:59 PM, John B. wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> On Fri, 15 Oct 2021 16:02:57 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
>>>>>>>>>>> <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> On Friday, October 15, 2021 at 3:18:31 PM UTC-7, sms wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 10/15/2021 2:10 PM, jbeattie wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> <snip>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Pilots rebelling is another hoax. https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2021/oct/11/tweets/southwest-airline-pilots-union-deny-claims-anti-va/
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The number of people protesting and leaving their jobs is tiny -- and idiotic. Anyone with a disability or a legitimate reason for not being vaccinated is entitled to an accommodation, which usually means routine testing.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Do you recall last week when a bunch of right-wing wackos tried to claim
>>>>>>>>>>>>> that Southwest Airlines cancelled flights were because pilots were
>>>>>>>>>>>>> opposed to vaccination requirements? The pilots' union, the airline, and
>>>>>>>>>>>>> the FAA all said that this was nonsense.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> The usual cast of right-wing morons, Ted Cruz, Michael Berry, Donald
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Trump, Benny Johnson, Candace Owens. Lauren Boebert, etc., wasted no
>>>>>>>>>>>>> time in lying about the situation. It's just what they do. The sad thing
>>>>>>>>>>>>> is that there are people that actually believe them.
>>>>>>>>>>>> You simply cannot bare to tell the truth can you? Here is an article from NBC which makes some far left communist like you look moderate. https://www.cnbc.com/2021/10/12/southwest-airlines-reduces-cancellations-after-mass-cancellations-from-staffing-shortage.html
>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.cnbc.com/2021/10/12/southwest-airlines-reduces-cancellations-after-mass-cancellations-from-staffing-shortage.html
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Reality time again:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Tommy, Do you bother to read the references that you post? I ask as
>>>>>>>>>>> your reference says, in part:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> "The airline said bad weather and air traffic control issues in
>>>>>>>>>>> Florida kicked off the problems, which snowballed due to its own
>>>>>>>>>>> staffing shortfall, particularly a lack of backup pilots and flight
>>>>>>>>>>> attendants to step in when things go wrong."
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> A 'just so' story in that there wasn't bad weather and other
>>>>>>>>>> airlines run on the same air controller system.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Well, it does go on to say that:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> each of the airports it serves in Florida was affected by air traffic
>>>>>>>>> control delays, “including a seven-hour ground stop at Orlando.†Other
>>>>>>>>> airlines had relatively small numbers of cancellations compared with
>>>>>>>>> Southwest.
>>>>>>>>> Orlando flights were delayed an average of 45 minutes on Friday,
>>>>>>>>> according to a person familiar with the matter.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>> Casey Murray, president of the Southwest Airlines Pilots Association,
>>>>>>>>> which represents the carrier’s more than 9,000 pilots, told CNBC that
>>>>>>>>> the airline’s poor planning was to blame for the issues. The airline
>>>>>>>>> has already scaled back its fall schedule due to disruptions
>>>>>>>>> throughout the summer following complaints from exhausted crew.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> That doesn't matter, John. Ask any right-winger. It just HAS to be
>>>>>>>> Obama's fault!
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Oops, I mean Biden's fault. But it's still Obama's fault because he ran
>>>>>>>> with Biden.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Probably (:-)
>>>>>>> But as likely the Naysayers probably can't comprehend how complex it
>>>>>>> is to schedule flight crews, specifically pilots, in regards to the
>>>>>>> FAA regulations.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> The other airlines seem to have made things work.
>>>>> Not according to Russy. The whole world has been stuck under an umbrella of bad weather conditions that only keeps Southwest from flying.
>>>> To be clear, are you claiming Southwest's problems were due to a vaccine mandate? If so, that has been debunked. And why hasn't it affected all the other airlines who are under a federal vaccine mandate. I just took an Alaska flight to SLC that was on-time, although we sat around on the grand for half an hour waiting for a gate. The new SLC airport is crazy busy, and it is literally a two mile walk from the gate to ground transportation, which was miserable on bum leg. And why is it that the Embraer 175s don't have any seat power -- and Alaska used to serve free beer, and the prices have skyrocketed! Damn Obama! At least GoGo Inflight had some good movies.
>>>
>>> Debunked in what manner? The company mandated vaccines and the next three days they had the unions striking and the pilots on a sickout. Then Southwest said that they would not mandate vaccines and BIG SURPRISE, everyone came back to work. But to you that is debunking. Just blame it on "bad weather" that didn't exist. Jay, you're getting brighter by the second.
>>>
>> Latest from Chicago where citizens can ill afford a serious
>> drop in police employment:
>> https://blockclubchicago.org/2021/10/13/chicago-police-union-boss-urges-officers-not-to-tell-city-if-theyre-vaccinated-predicts-50-drop-in-cops/
>>
>> But hey Mayor Muchkin thinks the mRNA technology is effective:
>>
>> Down East in VT where volunteer mRNA jabs are extremely
>> popular, more popular than in Chicago or New York:
>>
>> "The inoculation rate of eligible Vermonters, last updated
>> Saturday, shows 88.6% have now gotten at least one vaccine
>> dose, while more than 79% are fully vaccinated."
>>
>> from:
>> https://www.vpr.org/vpr-news/2021-10-11/news-roundup-vermont-health-department-reports-222-new-covid-cases-on-monday
>>
>> even so:
>> https://vtdigger.org/2021/10/12/as-vermont-reports-second-highest-covid-case-average-scott-says-i-dont-know-why/
>>
>
> One myth at a time. I'm talking about the Southwest fiasco. But moving on to Vermont, look at the infection rates for the vaccinated versus unvaccinated. https://vtdigger.org/2021/10/08/vermont-reports-283-new-covid-cases-and-4-deaths-updates-breakthrough-and-outbreak-stats/ The unvaccinated are more than twice as likely to die, and it doesn't even match populations -- e.g., the fully vaccinated population skews old and has more co-morbidities. The gulf between vaccinated and unvaccinated in the otherwise health population is way higher. Any rational person would look at these numbers and get vaccinated. Another missing piece of data is the type of vaccine taken by those who got sick and when the vaccine was given. J&J is not an mRNA vaccine, and is apparently less effective against the Delta variant -- and it loses potency faster than the mRNA vaccines.

On 10/17/2021 2:58 PM, jbeattie wrote:

<snip>

> Well at least one of us is getting brighter. You're getting stupider by the second. See, once again: https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/factcheck/2021/10/11/fact-check-canceled-flights-not-because-organized-walkout/6091980001/ You just keep repeating these memes because they are somehow satisfying to you, perhaps for pathological reasons.
>
> And again, its a federal mandate, more or less, applicable to all federal contractors, meaning most of the major airlines:
>
> ". . . the largest pilots association and most major carriers — United Airlines, American Airlines, Southwest Airlines, JetBlue, Alaska Airlines and Hawaiian Airlines — confirm they will follow President Biden's executive order requiring workers to get the shots. " https://www.cbsnews.com/news/covid-19-vaccine-mandate-major-airlines/

Pilots are generally pretty well-educated so extremely few of them would
refuse to get vaccinated.

In fact I heard that an ALPA spokesperson stated that their pilots
didn't want to catch whatever it was that made the anti-vaxers act the
way they did.

On Sunday, October 17, 2021 at 2:43:10 PM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
> On 10/17/2021 4:22 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
> > On Sunday, October 17, 2021 at 10:15:42 AM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote:
> >> On Sunday, October 17, 2021 at 8:20:03 AM UTC-7, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
> >>> On Sunday, October 17, 2021 at 7:06:57 AM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
> >>>> On 10/16/2021 5:26 PM, John B. wrote:
> >>>>> On Sat, 16 Oct 2021 11:33:52 -0400, Frank Krygowski
> >>>>> <frkr...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> On 10/15/2021 10:26 PM, John B. wrote:
> >>>>>>> On Fri, 15 Oct 2021 20:42:20 -0500, AMuzi <a...@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> On 10/15/2021 7:59 PM, John B. wrote:
> >>>>>>>>> On Fri, 15 Oct 2021 16:02:57 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
> >>>>>>>>> <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> On Friday, October 15, 2021 at 3:18:31 PM UTC-7, sms wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>> On 10/15/2021 2:10 PM, jbeattie wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> <snip>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> Pilots rebelling is another hoax. https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2021/oct/11/tweets/southwest-airline-pilots-union-deny-claims-anti-va/
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> The number of people protesting and leaving their jobs is tiny -- and idiotic. Anyone with a disability or a legitimate reason for not being vaccinated is entitled to an accommodation, which usually means routine testing.
> >>>>>>>>>>> Do you recall last week when a bunch of right-wing wackos tried to claim
> >>>>>>>>>>> that Southwest Airlines cancelled flights were because pilots were
> >>>>>>>>>>> opposed to vaccination requirements? The pilots' union, the airline, and
> >>>>>>>>>>> the FAA all said that this was nonsense.
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> The usual cast of right-wing morons, Ted Cruz, Michael Berry, Donald
> >>>>>>>>>>> Trump, Benny Johnson, Candace Owens. Lauren Boebert, etc., wasted no
> >>>>>>>>>>> time in lying about the situation. It's just what they do. The sad thing
> >>>>>>>>>>> is that there are people that actually believe them.
> >>>>>>>>>> You simply cannot bare to tell the truth can you? Here is an article from NBC which makes some far left communist like you look moderate. https://www.cnbc.com/2021/10/12/southwest-airlines-reduces-cancellations-after-mass-cancellations-from-staffing-shortage.html
> >>>>>>>>> https://www.cnbc.com/2021/10/12/southwest-airlines-reduces-cancellations-after-mass-cancellations-from-staffing-shortage.html
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> Reality time again:
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> Tommy, Do you bother to read the references that you post? I ask as
> >>>>>>>>> your reference says, in part:
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> "The airline said bad weather and air traffic control issues in
> >>>>>>>>> Florida kicked off the problems, which snowballed due to its own
> >>>>>>>>> staffing shortfall, particularly a lack of backup pilots and flight
> >>>>>>>>> attendants to step in when things go wrong."
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> A 'just so' story in that there wasn't bad weather and other
> >>>>>>>> airlines run on the same air controller system.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Well, it does go on to say that:
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> each of the airports it serves in Florida was affected by air traffic
> >>>>>>> control delays, “including a seven-hour ground stop at Orlando.†Other
> >>>>>>> airlines had relatively small numbers of cancellations compared with
> >>>>>>> Southwest.
> >>>>>>> Orlando flights were delayed an average of 45 minutes on Friday,
> >>>>>>> according to a person familiar with the matter.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> and
> >>>>>>> Casey Murray, president of the Southwest Airlines Pilots Association,
> >>>>>>> which represents the carrier’s more than 9,000 pilots, told CNBC that
> >>>>>>> the airline’s poor planning was to blame for the issues. The airline
> >>>>>>> has already scaled back its fall schedule due to disruptions
> >>>>>>> throughout the summer following complaints from exhausted crew.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> That doesn't matter, John. Ask any right-winger. It just HAS to be
> >>>>>> Obama's fault!
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Oops, I mean Biden's fault. But it's still Obama's fault because he ran
> >>>>>> with Biden.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Probably (:-)
> >>>>> But as likely the Naysayers probably can't comprehend how complex it
> >>>>> is to schedule flight crews, specifically pilots, in regards to the
> >>>>> FAA regulations.
> >>>>>
> >>>> The other airlines seem to have made things work.
> >>> Not according to Russy. The whole world has been stuck under an umbrella of bad weather conditions that only keeps Southwest from flying.
> >> To be clear, are you claiming Southwest's problems were due to a vaccine mandate? If so, that has been debunked. And why hasn't it affected all the other airlines who are under a federal vaccine mandate. I just took an Alaska flight to SLC that was on-time, although we sat around on the grand for half an hour waiting for a gate. The new SLC airport is crazy busy, and it is literally a two mile walk from the gate to ground transportation, which was miserable on bum leg. And why is it that the Embraer 175s don't have any seat power -- and Alaska used to serve free beer, and the prices have skyrocketed! Damn Obama! At least GoGo Inflight had some good movies.
> >
> > Debunked in what manner? The company mandated vaccines and the next three days they had the unions striking and the pilots on a sickout. Then Southwest said that they would not mandate vaccines and BIG SURPRISE, everyone came back to work. But to you that is debunking. Just blame it on "bad weather" that didn't exist. Jay, you're getting brighter by the second.
> >
> Latest from Chicago where citizens can ill afford a serious
> drop in police employment:
> https://blockclubchicago.org/2021/10/13/chicago-police-union-boss-urges-officers-not-to-tell-city-if-theyre-vaccinated-predicts-50-drop-in-cops/
>
> But hey Mayor Muchkin thinks the mRNA technology is effective:
>
> Down East in VT where volunteer mRNA jabs are extremely
> popular, more popular than in Chicago or New York:
>
> "The inoculation rate of eligible Vermonters, last updated
> Saturday, shows 88.6% have now gotten at least one vaccine
> dose, while more than 79% are fully vaccinated."
>
> from:
> https://www.vpr.org/vpr-news/2021-10-11/news-roundup-vermont-health-department-reports-222-new-covid-cases-on-monday
>
> even so:
> https://vtdigger.org/2021/10/12/as-vermont-reports-second-highest-covid-case-average-scott-says-i-dont-know-why/

This is more bullshit from NBC and why they are no longer a viable network. Their absolute bullshit about "Colin Powell died from covid-19 complications was exactly why no one watches them anymore. Powell was 84 years old and notably Powell had multiple myeloma, a cancer of plasma cells that reduces the body's ability to fight infection. If covid-19 had any effect at all it was of the most minor manner.

Also yesterday they "interviewed" Fauci about the "effectiveness of masks and vaccines" and Fauci with his usual mouth full of lies said, "All you have to do is look at the effectiveness of people with and without these things." I have shown you the CDC statistics showing there were NO deaths specifically from covid-19. Whether or not there were cases of circulatory diseases brought to a head is impossible to discover since it is entirely hidden beneath a cloud of bullshit. And in those cases it would have been nothing more than exacerbating an already deadly condition.