What's a good way to maintain private contacts outside the normal contacts?

Is there an app for that?

On 7/3/23 10:42, mike wrote:
> What's a good way to maintain private contacts outside the normal contacts?
>
> Is there an app for that?

What do "normal" and "private" mean in this context? Does private mean
that your contacts shouldn't sync to an external service?

As far as I'm aware, the stock Android (AOSP) contacts app is able to
use a local store for contacts. It also supports external accounts (i.e.
a Google account). The way the app displays contacts (which accounts are
displayed) is configured in its settings.

That's my practice: keeping a local contact store on the phone
(private), and having the stock Contacts app display them along with
contacts on a CardDAV server (not private).

On 03-07-2023 19:33 Arnold Knight <no-email@invalid.com> wrote:

>> What's a good way to maintain private contacts outside the normal contacts?
>>
>> Is there an app for that?
>
> What do "normal" and "private" mean in this context? Does private mean
> that your contacts shouldn't sync to an external service?

Thank you for asking for a clarification of what I called "private" and
what you seem to be calling "local", meaning these contacts are NOT in the
default sqlite database that each Android phone stores its contacts in.

Let's say I want to have a conversation with my wife, while I'm in bed.
Do I really want my neighbors "syncing" that private conversation?
That private conversation should stay in the bedroom between me and her.

Same with private contacts.
They stay on the phone.

I don't want my contacts EVER uploaded to ANY server anywhere.
For that, I have to keep them out of the default sqlite contacts database.

The only apps that need my contacts should use a local database.
The only three apps I can even think of that need contacts are
a. The dialer
b. The messenger
c. And the contacts manager (if it's not part of the dialer or messenger)

> As far as I'm aware, the stock Android (AOSP) contacts app is able to
> use a local store for contacts. It also supports external accounts (i.e.
> a Google account). The way the app displays contacts (which accounts are
> displayed) is configured in its settings.

This is good to know if this "stock Android (AOSP) contacts app" can be
found. I think the only two apps which need what you call a "local store"
would be my dialer and my messenger app.

I can't think of any other app that needs access to my contacts and
certainly there is never going to be a need to 'sync' them anywhere.

I'll "copy" them to Windows every once in a while to maintain them.
But I'll never "upload" them to any server that isn't on my network.

> That's my practice: keeping a local contact store on the phone
> (private), and having the stock Contacts app display them along with
> contacts on a CardDAV server (not private).

I don't want my contacts on any machine that isn't on my own network, and
since I wouldn't even know how to set up a CardDAV server, I don't envision
my own CardDAV server on my own network.

I don't have big syncing needs anyway. I have only about a couple dozen
contacts. I certainly don't want ANY of my contacts uploaded to a server.

Come to think of it, I don't even need a "contacts" app, per se. All I need
is my dialer and my messenger to utilize the contacts. I don't need a
specific app for contacts that doesn't do anything but maintain them.

But in the worst case, that's three apps which will NEED local contacts:
a. The dialer
b. The messenger
c. The contacts manager

Looking for that stock Android (AOSP) contacts app, this is my search.
https://play.google.com/store/search?q=stock%20Android%20(AOSP)%20contacts%20app&c=apps

It found one app with a hundred downloads so that's likely not it.
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.nwagu.contacts

But maybe that is the app you had suggested as it's also on github.
https://github.com/nwagu/contacts

The developer's web page is one of the strangest web pages I've ever seen.
https://aospcontacts.nwagu.com/

Widening the search to the entire Internet found some promising hits.
https://www.google.com/search?q=stock+Android+%28AOSP%29+contacts+app

This one says the dialer has been detached from the contacts manager.
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=cz.psencik.com.android.contacts

Do you recommend any of those apps to keep the contacts local (which means
they can not be stored in the default sqlite contacts location on Android)?

On 2023-07-03 22:49, mike wrote:
> On 03-07-2023 19:33 Arnold Knight <no-email@invalid.com> wrote:
>
>>> What's a good way to maintain private contacts outside the normal
>>> contacts?
>>>
>>> Is there an app for that?
>>
>> What do "normal" and "private" mean in this context? Does private mean
>> that your contacts shouldn't sync to an external service?
>
> Thank you for asking for a clarification of what I called "private" and
> what you seem to be calling "local", meaning these contacts are NOT in the
> default sqlite database that each Android phone stores its contacts in.
>
> Let's say I want to have a conversation with my wife, while I'm in bed.
> Do I really want my neighbors "syncing" that private conversation?

How would your neigbour do that exaxtly?

> That private conversation should stay in the bedroom between me and her.
>
> Same with private contacts.
> They stay on the phone.
>
> I don't want my contacts EVER uploaded to ANY server anywhere.
> For that, I have to keep them out of the default sqlite contacts database.

Good for you... ...Arlen!

Am 04.07.23 um 07:49 schrieb mike:
> Let's say I want to have a conversation with my wife, while I'm in bed.
> Do I really want my neighbors "syncing" that private conversation?
> That private conversation should stay in the bedroom between me and her.

Sorry?

--
Prudentia potentia est

Am 04.07.23 um 07:49 schrieb mike:
> I don't want my contacts EVER uploaded to ANY server anywhere.

You use the wrong OS.

--
Prudentia potentia est

Am 03.07.23 um 19:42 schrieb mike:
> What's a good way to maintain private contacts outside the normal contacts?
>
> Is there an app for that?

Good morning Arlen!

Path:
news.solani.org!!weretis.net!reader5.news.weretis.net!feeder8.news.weretis.net!paganini.bofh.team!not-for-mail
From: mike <this@address.is.invalid>
Newsgroups: comp.mobile.android
Subject: Re: Private contacts
Date: Tue, 4 Jul 2023 11:19:05 +0530
Organization: To protect and to server
Message-ID: <u80brd$206nu$1@paganini.bofh.team>
References: <u7v18m$1n3s3$1@paganini.bofh.team>
<u7vltd$3qt4b$1@dont-email.me>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Injection-Date: Tue, 4 Jul 2023 05:48:30 -0000 (UTC)
Injection-Info: paganini.bofh.team; logging-data="2104062";
posting-host="kdPlWPd0c/wbVVPMnaplhA.user.paganini.bofh.team";
mail-complaints-to="usenet@bofh.team";
posting-account="9dIQLXBM7WM9KzA+yjdR4A";
User-Agent: Unison/2.1.10
Cancel-Lock: sha256:xuLnwSmllJetlx1p7Mw+gs/HFcnVjjGFnH8XEDM+BG0=
X-Notice: Filtered by postfilter v. 0.9.3
Xref: news.solani.org comp.mobile.android:104585
--
Prudentia potentia est

On 2023-07-04 07:49, mike wrote:
> On 03-07-2023 19:33 Arnold Knight <no-email@invalid.com> wrote:
>
>>> What's a good way to maintain private contacts outside the normal
>>> contacts?
>>>
>>> Is there an app for that?
>>
>> What do "normal" and "private" mean in this context? Does private mean
>> that your contacts shouldn't sync to an external service?
>
> Thank you for asking for a clarification of what I called "private" and
> what you seem to be calling "local", meaning these contacts are NOT in the
> default sqlite database that each Android phone stores its contacts in.
>
> Let's say I want to have a conversation with my wife, while I'm in bed.
> Do I really want my neighbors "syncing" that private conversation?
> That private conversation should stay in the bedroom between me and her.
>
> Same with private contacts.
> They stay on the phone.
>
> I don't want my contacts EVER uploaded to ANY server anywhere.
> For that, I have to keep them out of the default sqlite contacts database.

You could put those contacts on the SIM card. I did that on the past,
they were not synced by google.

I just tried to create a new contact using the default app. I looked
carefully, and near the top there is a line:

Save in : name@gmail.com

That is, it is going to be saved on my google account, but I can change
that to "device". I assume "device" is not the SIM card.

--
Cheers, Carlos.

Joerg Lorenz wrote:

>> I don't want my contacts EVER uploaded to ANY server anywhere.
>
> You use the wrong OS.

You're on the wrong newsgroup because the iPhone is far worse than Android.

If you owned an iPhone, then your entire conversations with your wife &
doctor are listened to - with ZERO redactions! - by low-paid hourly-wage
non-Apple contractors overseas who have no right to listen to them.

Or maybe you haven't read the news that Apple sent millions of people's
conversations overseas, with no encryption, to non-Apple employees (who
were simply hourly wage contractors in Ireland) of everything you asked
Siri (and if you had an apple watch, almost everything you ever said)?

For years!

All the while advertising privacy that doesn't (and can't) exist on iOS.

On 2023-07-04 08:44, Ashton Cook wrote:
> Joerg Lorenz wrote:
>
>>> I don't want my contacts EVER uploaded to ANY server anywhere.
>>
>> You use  the wrong OS.
>
> You're on the wrong newsgroup because the iPhone is far worse than Android.
>
> If you owned an iPhone, then your entire conversations with your wife &
> doctor are listened to - with ZERO redactions! - by low-paid hourly-wage
> non-Apple contractors overseas who have no right to listen to them.

Why must you lie all the time... ...Arlen?

>
> Or maybe you haven't read the news that Apple sent millions of people's
> conversations overseas, with no encryption, to non-Apple employees (who
> were simply hourly wage contractors in Ireland) of everything you asked
> Siri (and if you had an apple watch, almost everything you ever said)?
>
> For years!
>
> All the while advertising privacy that doesn't (and can't) exist on iOS.

Carlos E.R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
> On 2023-07-04 07:49, mike wrote:
[...]
> > Same with private contacts.
> > They stay on the phone.
> >
> > I don't want my contacts EVER uploaded to ANY server anywhere.
> > For that, I have to keep them out of the default sqlite contacts database.
>
> You could put those contacts on the SIM card. I did that on the past,
> they were not synced by google.
>
> I just tried to create a new contact using the default app. I looked
> carefully, and near the top there is a line:
>
> Save in : name@gmail.com
>
> That is, it is going to be saved on my google account, but I can change
> that to "device". I assume "device" is not the SIM card.

Sigh! Don't you get it!? It's really quite simple: 'mike' aka 'Arlen'
wants his contacts on the phone without them being on the phone! How
hard can that be!?

On 2023-07-04 21:11, Frank Slootweg wrote:
> Carlos E.R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
>> On 2023-07-04 07:49, mike wrote:
> [...]
>>> Same with private contacts.
>>> They stay on the phone.
>>>
>>> I don't want my contacts EVER uploaded to ANY server anywhere.
>>> For that, I have to keep them out of the default sqlite contacts database.
>>
>> You could put those contacts on the SIM card. I did that on the past,
>> they were not synced by google.
>>
>> I just tried to create a new contact using the default app. I looked
>> carefully, and near the top there is a line:
>>
>> Save in : name@gmail.com
>>
>> That is, it is going to be saved on my google account, but I can change
>> that to "device". I assume "device" is not the SIM card.
>
> Sigh! Don't you get it!? It's really quite simple: 'mike' aka 'Arlen'
> wants his contacts on the phone without them being on the phone! How
> hard can that be!?

I'm not sure that one is Arlen. He would know this question. Even more,
he claimed not to use a Google account, so he doesn't have this problem,
he solved it long ago.

--
Cheers,
Carlos E.R.

On 04-07-2023 15:11 Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> wrote:

> How hard can that be!?

Good question.

The point is that only the apps that need contacts should store them
locally. How hard of a concept is that for you to understand is up to you.

The messenger and the dialer are the only apps that need contacts.
Again, how hard that is for you to understand is up to your descretion.

Google Maps, for example, does not need them. Neither does WhatsApp.
Once more, how hard that is for you to understand is your issue. Not mine.

It's clear you don't understand the question because you probably know
nothing about Android and how Android stores contacts in an sqlite db.

Likely because of your lack of understanding of computers in general, you
seem to think contacts have to be ubiquitously available to all apps.

They don't.
Contacts only need to be stored locally in the few apps that need them.

Like the messenger.
And the dialer.

There is never a reason to store the contacts on the Internet.
And that's to protect YOUR privacy (not mine).

Protecting the privacy of contacts is an altruistic act of smart people.
The dumber people are, the less they understand it's about OTHERS' privacy.

Not mine.
Yours.

Anyway, I'm working on a solution which has multiple applications that are
all working so the only real dilemma now is to choose the BEST solution.

The solution that protects YOUR privacy the best.
Not mine.

For the master sqlite database, they make programs for that purpose alone.
https://f-droid.org/packages/me.billdietrich.fake_contacts/

Given the master contacts db will be stored on Windows, I'm testing these.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_Contacts
https://web.archive.org/web/20201210184251/https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/download/details.aspx?id=8002
https://download.cnet.com/Efficient-Address-Book-Free/3000-2074_4-10921069.html

The plan currently is these three basic steps to protect privacy of others.
(1) The Windows default contacts manager will manage the master database
(2) Fake Contacts will populate the default Android sqlite contacts db
(3) Android apps that import/export local contacts will use the real db

On 2023-07-04 22:35, mike wrote:
> On 04-07-2023 15:11 Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> wrote:
>
>> How hard can that be!?
>
> Good question.
>
> The point is that only the apps that need contacts should store them
> locally. How hard of a concept is that for you to understand is up to you.
>
> The messenger and the dialer are the only apps that need contacts.
> Again, how hard that is for you to understand is up to your descretion.
>
> Google Maps, for example, does not need them. Neither does WhatsApp.
> Once more, how hard that is for you to understand is your issue. Not mine.
>
> It's clear you don't understand the question because you probably know
> nothing about Android and how Android stores contacts in an sqlite db.
>
> Likely because of your lack of understanding of computers in general, you
> seem to think contacts have to be ubiquitously available to all apps.
>
> They don't.
> Contacts only need to be stored locally in the few apps that need them.
>
> Like the messenger.
> And the dialer.
>
> There is never a reason to store the contacts on the Internet.
> And that's to protect YOUR privacy (not mine).

Having the contacts on internet vs locally is a different concept from
which apps have access to contacts.

And having a central, local storage of contacts, and controlling the
permissions of what tools have access to it is a perfectly valid and
secure solution, which you have the right to not agree with, and we have
the right to agree with.

Now, you are starting to seem too Arlen like for me to be embroiled in a
stupid discussion again. I'm out.

--
Cheers,
Carlos E.R.

On 7/3/23 22:49, mike wrote:

> This is good to know if this "stock Android (AOSP) contacts app" can be
> found.

Mine came with GrapheneOS, so I never had to look for it.

> Do you recommend any of those apps to keep the contacts local (which means
> they can not be stored in the default sqlite contacts location on Android)?

You might take a look at this app:

https://f-droid.org/en/packages/opencontacts.open.com.opencontacts/

On 05-07-2023 03:31 Arnold Knight <no-email@invalid.com> wrote:

>> This is good to know if this "stock Android (AOSP) contacts app" can be
>> found.
>
> Mine came with GrapheneOS, so I never had to look for it.

I'm not rooted & I don't know how to use "GrapheneOS" so you're ahead of
me, which is why (thankfully) you understood the question nobody else did.

What others didn't understand is I'm trying to protect THEM (not me!).
All they can comprehend is the little world that Google handed to them.

None of them can see outside the tiny box that Google boxed them all into.
But you can.

>> Do you recommend any of those apps to keep the contacts local (which means
>> they can not be stored in the default sqlite contacts location on Android)?
>
> You might take a look at this app:
> https://f-droid.org/en/packages/opencontacts.open.com.opencontacts/

Thank you for that wonderful suggestion of opencontacts on F-Droid.

Its description seems to be almost perfectly tuned to the problem!
https://f-droid.org/en/packages/opencontacts.open.com.opencontacts/
OpenContacts
A different database for contacts to keep them private only to you.
Even though we are not having any problem sharing our mobile number with
all third parties, people in our phone book might have.
We should not be sharing their contact information online.
This app saves contacts in its own database separate from android contacts.
This way no other app would be able to access contacts.
Can be used in place of your default phone(dialer) app.
It can import contacts from vCard files.
So we can export Android contacts and import into this app.
Maintains call log as well.
Also shows the person's name upon receiving call.

They seem to have a deprecated site on gitlab also.
https://github.com/sultanahamer/OpenContacts
Privacy to your contacts.
This app saves contacts in its own database seperate from android contacts.
This way no other app would be able to access contacts.
Can be used in place of your phone app.
We can export / import contacts from Android contacts app into this app.
Maintains call log as well coz Android call log app would not be able to
show name of contact Also shows the person name upon recieving call

Which points us to what seems to be a well-maintained site at gitlab.
https://gitlab.com/sultanahamer/OpenContacts
This app saves contacts in its own database seperate from android contacts.
This way no other app would be able to access contacts.
Can be used in place of your default phone(dialer) app.
We can export / import contacts from Android contacts app into this app.
Maintains call log as well coz Android call log app would not be able
to show name of contact.
Also shows the person name upon recieving call.

I picked up the APK directly from F-Droid onto my Windows PC.
https://f-droid.org/repo/opencontacts.open.com.opencontacts_28.apk
Name: opencontacts.open.com.opencontacts_28.apk
Size: 4048046 bytes (3953 KiB)
SHA256: 2C421C73849023C6964F76D8636BF02F39A232DCD3E5B4D402F60008AD8F8672

It installed with no problems onto my Android 12 pixel.
It had a very easy way to add contacts individually from the call list.
For some reason, it didn't nag me to make it the default dialer.
Nor the default messenger. Nor the default contacts manager.

That surprised me as it worked as all three (although, of course, it didn't
have any contacts yet - but it did suck in my recent phone calls after I
gave it permission to do so in the initial setup screens).

The add contact form enabled email which is useful since I'm going to
likely start with my Windows Thunderbird address book as the master db
(which was one of the suggestions that the Windows users had made).b

Excellent that it can import and export as that's the most critical
component of any tool that handles contacts locally, where I noticed it has
the option to export automatically on a weekly basis to the file system.

It's interesting that it has an option, off by default, to open telegram
and whatsapp conversations directly from the open contacts app itself.

For the master sqlite database, I'll populate it with this program.
https://f-droid.org/packages/me.billdietrich.fake_contacts/
This way I'll instantly know when a program is sucking in the sqlite db.

Given the master contacts db will be stored on Windows, I'm also testing
a way to maintain the master file on a PC due to the keyboard & big screen.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_Contacts
https://web.archive.org/web/20201210184251/https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/download/details.aspx?id=8002
https://download.cnet.com/Efficient-Address-Book-Free/3000-2074_4-10921069.html

Thank you for being the only person who not only understood the problem set
wasn't to preserve MY privacy (but to preserve YOURS!) and who had a
solution.

Your helpful and caring information is how Usenet is supposed to work.
I will test this out and let you know what I find out soon about it.

The end result won't change my privacy at all - but it will help others.

On 05-07-2023 01:29 mike <this@address.is.invalid> wrote:

> I will test this out and let you know what I find out soon about it.
>
> The end result won't change my privacy at all - but it will help others.

The kind and astute advice from Arnold Knight, coupled with that of the
Windows newsgroup worked so here is a quick summary to help everyone else.

The problem is solved.
Now everyone's privacy (but mine) is well protected by my actions.

If only everyone was as thoughtful as Arnold & I am we'd all have better
privacy (but I can't control the actions of those who are rude to others).

1. I used fake contacts to falsely populate the real contacts sqlite db.
https://f-droid.org/packages/me.billdietrich.fake_contacts/
The main advantage is if I see those contacts showing up in any app,
then I know there is a leak on that app of the real contacts sqlite db.

2. Then I used open contacts to import/export my own personal contacts db.
https://f-droid.org/repo/opencontacts.open.com.opencontacts_28.apk
The main advantage is this tool seamlessly integrates with whatever
you've set as the "default Phone app" & it doesn't affect any other
contact manager you may have on the phone which reads/writes from/to
the one and only default Android sqlite contacts database.

3. To complete the loop, I will use the Windows Betterbird/Thunderbird
Address Book manager as my main master contacts to sync to monthly.

On Thu, 31 Aug 2023 10:40:26 +0530, mike wrote:
> 1. I used fake contacts to falsely populate the real contacts sqlite db.
> https://f-droid.org/packages/me.billdietrich.fake_contacts/
> The main advantage is if I see those contacts showing up in any app,
> then I know there is a leak on that app of the real contacts sqlite db.

There's another reason for fake contacts to populate the sqlite database.

Apparently your contacts are repeatedly sent out to any developers who ask
for your Firebase Index - which is automatically sent - sometimes daily.

Firebase App Indexing is sending data weekly to someone - but who?
https://groups.google.com/g/comp.mobile.android/c/57sy7lNnrzk