On 2023-09-05 13:24, Jim the Geordie wrote:
> In article <klp4rnFj14gU1@mid.individual.net>, robin_listas@es.invalid
> says...
>>
>> On 2023-09-05 10:08, Jim the Geordie wrote:
>>> In article <1t1rg47o0b6k9$.dlg@v.nguard.lh>, V@nguard.LH says...
>>>>
>>>> Jim the Geordie <jim@jimXscott.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> In article <1tnx805dcomkk$.dlg@v.nguard.lh>, V@nguard.LH says...
>>
>>
>>> Sorry I started this.
>>> I am a bloke with a mobile getting my signal from O2. In a particular
>>> cafe which to be fair has reinforced concrete roof and brick walls with
>>> big windows. When I open an app, I (mostly) get a message saying no
>>> signal (do you want to play a game?)(I don't)
>>> Mt wife uses my old android Galaxt Ace v4.4 and gets a signal although
>>> it is slow.
>>> At this point both phones are sat side by side near a window.
>>> When I move 10 feet outside (towards the sea ie away from any mast and
>>> the concrete roof) the signal returns to both.
>>> I expected better of my newer phone in identical conditions and simply
>>> wondered if I could do anything about it, beyond eating somewhere else
>>> and waiting until the end of my contract.
>>
>> But the thing is, very possibly they are not identical conditions,
>> because very possibly they are using different bands.
>
> Ah!
> And is that something I can change?

Not likely, no.

It is just that the telcos have newer technologies which they put on
newer bands that the old phones don't have. These new frequencies can be
on new transmitters possibly on different towers, so you can not say the
phone has bad reception without finding first what exact band is each
phone operating at, at the same instant.

For example, a not really old phone of mine lost internet connectivity
because the telcos decided to drop support for some band, G2 or G3, and
the phone seems to have a faulty G4.

Guessing, the newer bands are on higher frequency, which penetrate worse
armored concrete buildings.

--
Cheers,
Carlos E.R.

Jim the Geordie wrote:

> robin_listas says...
>
>> But the thing is, very possibly they are not identical conditions,
>> because very possibly they are using different bands.
>
> Ah!
> And is that something I can change?

Well you *could* reduce the bands available to the newer phone to only
those available to the older one (i.e. turn your 4G phone into a 2.5G phone)

On 05/09/2023 18:24, Jim the Geordie wrote:
> In article <klp4rnFj14gU1@mid.individual.net>, robin_listas@es.invalid
> says...
>>
>> On 2023-09-05 10:08, Jim the Geordie wrote:
>> But the thing is, very possibly they are not identical conditions,
>> because very possibly they are using different bands.
>
> Ah!
> And is that something I can change?
>

The old phone is GSM and WCDMA. As far as I can see, in the UK That
equates to a restricted version of 3G and 2G.

The new phone does 4G (among other things) so it probably prefers to
connect to 4G if it can, and except in some densely populated areas, 4G
signals tend to be weaker.

If you don't require internet you could perhaps see if you can disable
4G on the new phone in settings.

--
Brian Gregory (in England).

Brian Gregory wrote:

> If you don't require internet you could perhaps see if you can disable
> 4G on the new phone in settings.

Jim could try this as an experiment on the newer phone.

go into your dialler and "call"
*#*#4636#*#*

you should arrive at a testing menu,
pick phone information

before doing anything else, take a careful note of what it says
under "set preferred network type", maybe even take a photo of the
screen just to be sure.

then change it to "GSM/WCDMA preferred"
your new phone is now limited to the same bands as your old phone

See if it makes better phone calls like that.

Put the setting back to what it originally was, or the new phone will
drop to dire mobile data speeds.

Jim the Geordie wrote:

> I am a bloke with a mobile getting my signal from O2.
> Mt wife uses my old android Galaxt Ace v4.4

Is she also on O2, or another network?

On 2023-09-05 05:31, Jim the Geordie wrote:
> In article <klnl1pF8sovU4@mid.individual.net>, robin_listas@es.invalid
> says...
>>
>> On 2023-09-04 18:16, Bodger wrote:
>>> On 9/4/2023 2:21 PM, Jim the Geordie wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Forgive me if I have the facts wrong but basically my old Samsung mobile
>>>> is Android 4 (WCDMA/GSM if that means something to you) and gets better
>>>> reception than my current Android 11 (LTE/3G/2G auto connect) in the
>>>> same place on the same network.
>>>> Is that to do with the aerial?
>>>> Is there anything I can do about it beyond changing my phone?
>>>>
>>>
>>> I would think that the hardware would make more difference than the
>>> Android version.
>>
>> It is a clue on the year of manufacture.
>>
>> That phone has to be quite old, so it can not receive the new bands.
>
> My point is that the old phone works better then the newer one!

Not necessarily, because you don't know what band is each phone actually
using.

Using different bands also means that each phone may be connecting to
different towers, which may be at different distances and with different
powers.

--
Cheers,
Carlos E.R.

Neil <neil@myschool.edu> wrote:

> the other is that the instant you put financial information onto a phone,
> it becomes a radioactive waste that has to be guarded lest it get out.

Actually, the credit card is not on the phone, but is recorded for the
transaction in the account. Someone stealing my phone is not getting my
credit card info. Besides the auto-lockout, I always lock my phone when
done using it, and can remotely reset it, too.

I do like the "radioactive waste" description, though, for other shit
that resides on the phone.

Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:

> On 2023-09-05 05:46, VanguardLH wrote:
>> Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On 2023-09-04 22:55, VanguardLH wrote:
>>>> Jim the Geordie <jim@jimXscott.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Forgive me if I have the facts wrong but basically my old Samsung mobile
>>>>> is Android 4 (WCDMA/GSM if that means something to you) and gets better
>>>>> reception than my current Android 11 (LTE/3G/2G auto connect) in the
>>>>> same place on the same network.
>>>>> Is that to do with the aerial?
>>>>> Is there anything I can do about it beyond changing my phone?
>>>>
>>>> Signal bars in the display are NOT how you measure signal strength. The
>>>> bars are just an indicator, like a wind sock that points straight out
>>>> tells you there is enough wind to raise the sock, but not how fast is
>>>> the wind.
>>>
>>> You might want to look into windsocks a bit more before you use that
>>> analogy again:
>>>
>>> 'Alternating stripes of high-visibility orange and white were initially
>>> used to help to estimate wind speed, with each stripe adding 3 knots
>>> (5.6 km/h; 3.5 mph) to the estimated speed. However, some circular frame
>>> mountings cause windsocks to be held open at one end, indicating a
>>> velocity of 3 knots even when stripes are not present. A fully extended
>>> windsock suggests a wind speed of 15 knots (28 km/h; 17 mph) or greater.[2]'
>>>
>>> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windsock>
>>
>> With as much accuracy as bars for signal strength on a phone.
>
> Why would you imagine that windsocks aren't reasonably accurate?

Windsock are basic indicators. They are designed where the weight of
the material and diameter will reflect a granularity of 3 knot (3.5 mph)
increments, but at full point only indicate 15 knots, or higher, but not
how mugh higher. I certainly would not use a windsock to compensate for
a long-range shot at the range, especially since the windsock is not the
target. If 3.5 mph increments are accurate to you, then my analogy
fails. To me, increments of 3.5 mph is not very accurate. Is it 0 mph,
3.5 mph, 7 mph, or something between, and how do I interpret a partial
stripe extension on the windsock? If I go by only full stripes on a
windsock, I won't know if the wind is 3.5 mph or 7 mph. For landing a
plane, yeah, accurate enough. For placing a long-range shot, nope.

Does the FAA, or other gov't agency, enforce the accuracy of windsocks?
There's de facto standards, and then there are real ones. How do you
know a windsock meets FAA regulations on indicated wind speed? Some
windsocks use a metal frame that holds open the windsock, so it
indicates a speed of 3 knots even when there is no wind. Is the
windsock optimally positioned for where knowing the wind speed is
critical? How about obstructions, like building or trees?

At airports, ATC (Air Traffic Control) will use a weather station to
determine wind speed, with sensors at various locations, not just one or
a couple. Why would they spend the much higher money on weather
stations if a windsock did it all?

Windsocks can be useful. So can bars on a phone for signal strenght.
The OP said one phone has less signal strength than another phone, but
never mentions by how many bars different. He was told how to determine
the dBm for signal strength on his phones. Instead of using bars
(windsocks), he can find the actual value.

Jim the Geordie <jim@jimXscott.co.uk> wrote:

> In article <1t1rg47o0b6k9$.dlg@v.nguard.lh>, V@nguard.LH says...
>>
>> Jim the Geordie <jim@jimXscott.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>>> In article <1tnx805dcomkk$.dlg@v.nguard.lh>, V@nguard.LH says...
>>>>
>>>> Jim the Geordie <jim@jimXscott.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Forgive me if I have the facts wrong but basically my old Samsung mobile
>>>>> is Android 4 (WCDMA/GSM if that means something to you) and gets better
>>>>> reception than my current Android 11 (LTE/3G/2G auto connect) in the
>>>>> same place on the same network.
>>>>> Is that to do with the aerial?
>>>>> Is there anything I can do about it beyond changing my phone?
>>>>
>>>> Signal bars in the display are NOT how you measure signal strength. The
>>>> bars are just an indicator, like a wind sock that points straight out
>>>> tells you there is enough wind to raise the sock, but not how fast is
>>>> the wind.
>>>>
>>>> Go into Android settings -> General -> About phone -> Network (your
>>>> navpath may vary from mine). Look at the dBm measurement to compare
>>>> signal strength on the 2 phones.
>>>>
>>>> You can also use an app to give your cellular info, like Network Cell
>>>> Info. There are lite and full versions. I paid the $2 to get the full
>>>> version.
>>>>
>>>> https://play.google.com/store/search?q=network+cell+info+lite&c=apps
>>>> https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.wilysis.cellinfo
>>>>
>>>> You'll get far more info than you'll likely understand for a long time.
>>>> One feature, map, will show to which cell tower the phone is connected.
>>>> Possibly one phone connects to a different cell tower than the other
>>>> phone, and distance causes signal attentuation as do obstructions
>>>> between cell tower to phone. Both phones on the same cellular carrier
>>>> does not mean both phones connect to the same cell tower.
>>>
>>> All very interesting, but no help really.
>>> I'll just have to use the older phone at this one location.
>>
>> Ah, I see. You started the discussion, but it really wasn't important
>> enough to even go into your phone's settings to check signal dBm while
>> watching a commercial on TV.
>>
>> Someone else mentioned which bands your phones support. You could go to
>> gsmarena.com to hunt down your phone to see which bands each phone
>> supports. There are apps that will tell you, too.
>>
>> RF density may not be as homogenous as you think. I've seen where
>> rocking in a chair or moving just a couple feet can affect signal
>
> Sorry I started this.
> I am a bloke with a mobile getting my signal from O2. In a particular
> cafe which to be fair has reinforced concrete roof and brick walls with
> big windows. When I open an app, I (mostly) get a message saying no
> signal (do you want to play a game?)(I don't)
> Mt wife uses my old android Galaxt Ace v4.4 and gets a signal although
> it is slow.
> At this point both phones are sat side by side near a window.
> When I move 10 feet outside (towards the sea ie away from any mast and
> the concrete roof) the signal returns to both.
> I expected better of my newer phone in identical conditions and simply
> wondered if I could do anything about it, beyond eating somewhere else
> and waiting until the end of my contract.

You might be connecting to a repeater or microcell inside the business
instead of getting a signal through a window on one side of the
building. The Network Cell app will show you to where you are
connected. Repeaters often have a limited number of bands, and may not
be equally strong on every one that both your phones support.

But, yes, with a new phone, I'd expect it to get a signal as well, or
better, than an [very] old phone. But I'd try to investigate just from
where each phone was connected to make sure all externals were equal.

As others mentioned, you might be close to a tower that better supports
the bands for the old phones, and the other phone picks a tower farther
away for the bands it uses.

In article <klpfmsFk78bU4@mid.individual.net>, usenet@andyburns.uk
says...
>
> Jim the Geordie wrote:
>
> > I am a bloke with a mobile getting my signal from O2.
> > Mt wife uses my old android Galaxt Ace v4.4
>
> Is she also on O2, or another network?

Same

--
Jim the Geordie

VanguardLH <V@nguard.LH> wrote

> Besides the auto-lockout, I always lock my phone when
> done using it, and can remotely reset it, too.

It's a philosophical discussion where the privacy advocates would say that
your phone is likely to be lost and/or stolen so you should not need to put
a lock on it because you should know enough ahead of time not to put
confidential information on it in any way, manner, shape or form.

My phones have never had a lockout (the screenblank is all they have).
It's very convenient.

You have to weigh the luxury of not having to deal with locks.
Against the luxury of being able to pay someone from your phone.

If someone steals my phone - all they get are my apps (and any recent
photo's I've taken that haven't yet been moved to the NAS drive at home).

The other philosophy is to use the phone as a banking system.
That requires locks.

Locks are not convenient.
And they're not foolproof.

Not putting anything confidential on the phone _is_ foolproof.
And convenient.

The difference is the philosophy of how much you value convenience versus
how much you value the ability to be able to pay people from your phone.