On Tue, 26 Oct 2021 17:01:39 -0700, NFN Smith <worldoff9908@gmail.com>
wrote:

>Frank Krygowski wrote:
>>
>> I'm very skeptical about two lane roundabouts. I've encountered only
>> one, about an hour's drive from here, and I've used it only when
>> motoring. I was going straight through (so to speak) and stayed in the
>> outer lane.
>>
>> Perhaps the inner lane is for passing when there's a backup stopping
>> traffic in the outer lane? I don't know.
>
>I've actually driven a 3-lane round-about. This was in a country that
>drives on the right side of the road. It takes a little getting used to
>(and I never saw it in high-volume traffic), but if you're in the left
>lane, you stay in the left lane, and all the way to the inner lane in
>the roundabout, and then stay in that lane coming out.
>
>Yes, you're crossing lanes of traffic, and I've forgotten the exact
>technique for doing it (especially if you're trying to exit from an
>inner lane, and the driver next to you in an outer lane wants to keep
>going), but it does work, and surprisingly better than seems intuitively
>possible. I think part of it is a combination of traffic not going
>especially fast, and that there's a lot more staggering of traffic (and
>spaces for merging and cross-overs) than you would assume.
>
>In the UK, I've seen a number of roundabouts in urban areas with heavy
>traffic that have signal lights, where you don't enter until you get a
>green light. The timing on the lights is such to allow the roundabout
>to (mostly clear) before new traffic is admitted, including that they
>don't allow for turn on red, either. This is especially the case with
>roundabouts that aren't truly round, but more ovals or rectangles that
>may be longer and narrower than the stereotypical "roundabout".
>
>No, I haven't tried to navigate any of those on a bicycle.
>
>Smith

We have one here in Bangkok with 5 roads entering, bus stops on two
sides, and "as many as can squeeze in" lanes. Approaching even if not
driving it appears sheer chaos but somehow the cars and busses seem to
get around with minimum problems.
--
Cheers,

John B.

On Tuesday, October 26, 2021 at 5:29:10 PM UTC-7, John B. wrote:
> On Tue, 26 Oct 2021 17:01:39 -0700, NFN Smith <worldo...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >Frank Krygowski wrote:
> >>
> >> I'm very skeptical about two lane roundabouts. I've encountered only
> >> one, about an hour's drive from here, and I've used it only when
> >> motoring. I was going straight through (so to speak) and stayed in the
> >> outer lane.
> >>
> >> Perhaps the inner lane is for passing when there's a backup stopping
> >> traffic in the outer lane? I don't know.
> >
> >I've actually driven a 3-lane round-about. This was in a country that
> >drives on the right side of the road. It takes a little getting used to
> >(and I never saw it in high-volume traffic), but if you're in the left
> >lane, you stay in the left lane, and all the way to the inner lane in
> >the roundabout, and then stay in that lane coming out.
> >
> >Yes, you're crossing lanes of traffic, and I've forgotten the exact
> >technique for doing it (especially if you're trying to exit from an
> >inner lane, and the driver next to you in an outer lane wants to keep
> >going), but it does work, and surprisingly better than seems intuitively
> >possible. I think part of it is a combination of traffic not going
> >especially fast, and that there's a lot more staggering of traffic (and
> >spaces for merging and cross-overs) than you would assume.
> >
> >In the UK, I've seen a number of roundabouts in urban areas with heavy
> >traffic that have signal lights, where you don't enter until you get a
> >green light. The timing on the lights is such to allow the roundabout
> >to (mostly clear) before new traffic is admitted, including that they
> >don't allow for turn on red, either. This is especially the case with
> >roundabouts that aren't truly round, but more ovals or rectangles that
> >may be longer and narrower than the stereotypical "roundabout".
> >
> >No, I haven't tried to navigate any of those on a bicycle.
> >
> >Smith
> We have one here in Bangkok with 5 roads entering, bus stops on two
> sides, and "as many as can squeeze in" lanes. Approaching even if not
> driving it appears sheer chaos but somehow the cars and busses seem to
> get around with minimum problems.

Bend, Oregon has a crazy amount of roundabouts. https://thebroadsideonline.com/2021/01/bends-roundabout-obsession-photo-gallery/ Its like a roundabout salesman hornswoggled the townsfolk. "Yes, siree, folks, you need a roundabout . . . and a monorail!" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZDOI0cq6GZM&ab_channel=saveourspit

-- Jay Beattie.

On 10/26/2021 5:01 PM, NFN Smith wrote:

<snip>

> Yes, you're crossing lanes of traffic, and I've forgotten the exact
> technique for doing it (especially if you're trying to exit from an
> inner lane, and the driver next to you in an outer lane wants to keep
> going), but it does work, and surprisingly better than seems intuitively
> possible.  I think part of it is a combination of traffic not going
> especially fast, and that there's a lot more staggering of traffic (and
> spaces for merging and cross-overs) than you would assume.

We had multi-lane roundabouts in the city I grew up in, for two major
roads with three lanes in each direction, but also two other minor
streets. For locals, they learned how to use them, with all the weaving,
but it wasn't a stress-free experience. For tourists, and we had a lot
of tourists, it was confusing, including some drivers that would try to
go clockwise instead of counter-clockwise.

Now they are talking about turning the current one-way traffic circle
into "the world's largest two-way traffic circle," with predictions
about it actually working ranging from 25% to 100% (100% is from the
designer).

"The new plan calls for two-way traffic, with cars in the outer lanes
traveling counterclockwise as they do now and cars in the innermost
lanes moving in a clockwise direction." Maybe they could put some
two-way protected bike lanes in the middle (being sarcastic). They can't
get rid of the circle, it's a large circle with a park in the center and
it's been there for nearly 100 year and it has eight places to enter and
exit the circle.

On Tuesday, October 26, 2021 at 6:06:59 p.m. UTC-4, Duane wrote:
> Rolf Mantel <ne...@hartig-mantel.de> wrote:
> > Am 26.10.2021 um 06:35 schrieb Joy Beeson:
> >> On Mon, 25 Oct 2021 08:31:02 -0500, AMuzi <a...@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
> >>
> >>> I have nothing good to say about them. They're a creative
> >>> combination of antipersonnel devices in an oversized meat
> >>> grinder for vehicles. Riding a half mile or a mile extra to
> >>> avoid them is my personal solution.
> >>
> >> By some miracle, roundabouts around here are designed by traffic
> >> engineers, as witnessed by the "yield" signs in place of the city
> >> fathers' beloved stop signs in places that teach drivers to ignore
> >> stop signs.
> >>
> >> Rumor has it that the roundabout is all done; there
> >> was a warning out a week or two ago that traffic would be seriously
> >> backed up while they completed the landscaping. (I hope it doen't
> >> inclued tall bushes in the circle; that's my only complaint about the
> >> older roundabouts.)
> >
> > The safety engineers know that the key safety design element on traffic
> > circles is vehicle speed. You wish to ensure that the sight lines are
> > such that
> > a) approaching vehicles don't see too early whether they need to stop,
> > so that they slow down to < 20 mph
> > b) vehicles entering the circle see perfectly well whether it's safe to
> > enter.
> >
> > Combining these two, tall bushes in the middle of the circle are a
> > safety feature.
> >
> > Rolf
> >
> Limiting the motorist’s view of me on my bike as he’s speeding around the
> turn? Please stop trying to protect me…
+1

Cheers

On 10/26/2021 9:55 PM, sms wrote:
> On 10/26/2021 5:01 PM, NFN Smith wrote:
>
> <snip>
>
>> Yes, you're crossing lanes of traffic, and I've forgotten
>> the exact technique for doing it (especially if you're
>> trying to exit from an inner lane, and the driver next to
>> you in an outer lane wants to keep going), but it does
>> work, and surprisingly better than seems intuitively
>> possible. I think part of it is a combination of traffic
>> not going especially fast, and that there's a lot more
>> staggering of traffic (and spaces for merging and
>> cross-overs) than you would assume.
>
> We had multi-lane roundabouts in the city I grew up in, for
> two major roads with three lanes in each direction, but also
> two other minor streets. For locals, they learned how to use
> them, with all the weaving, but it wasn't a stress-free
> experience. For tourists, and we had a lot of tourists, it
> was confusing, including some drivers that would try to go
> clockwise instead of counter-clockwise.
>
> Now they are talking about turning the current one-way
> traffic circle into "the world's largest two-way traffic
> circle," with predictions about it actually working ranging
> from 25% to 100% (100% is from the designer).
>
> "The new plan calls for two-way traffic, with cars in the
> outer lanes traveling counterclockwise as they do now and
> cars in the innermost lanes moving in a clockwise
> direction." Maybe they could put some two-way protected bike
> lanes in the middle (being sarcastic). They can't get rid of
> the circle, it's a large circle with a park in the center
> and it's been there for nearly 100 year and it has eight
> places to enter and exit the circle.
>
>

The more efficient way to that goal is a figure-8 course:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ej3kLPZHFYE

--
Andrew Muzi
<www.yellowjersey.org/>
Open every day since 1 April, 1971