My mother has a Samsung Android phone (not sure of the exact model) with a
Vodafone monthly-billing SIM.

Various web sites which send a one-time security code by text message fail
to deliver a code - so it's not a problem that is confined to one site.

But if I send her a text to the same number from my Android phone, it
arrives.

Any suggestions as to how to investigate and fix this? Can mobile phone
carriers such as Vodafone enable diagnostics that record the receipt of the
text to their system and then the forwarding of it to the phone?

I've tried accessing the relevant web sites which send one-time
security-code texts, using either Firefox or Google Chrome, but it makes no
difference which browser is used. Also I've tried specifying her number in
national (07748 xxxxxx) and international (+44 7748 xxxxxx) format.

NY <me@privacy.invalid> wrote:
> My mother has a Samsung Android phone (not sure of the exact model) with a
> Vodafone monthly-billing SIM.
>
> Various web sites which send a one-time security code by text message fail
> to deliver a code - so it's not a problem that is confined to one site.

It's quite possible that the different sites use a common service to send
SMS, and something is wrong with that service. I know AQL is a popular one,
but there are no doubt many others.

In the case of AQL they offer a free trial:
https://portal.aql.com/sms/
so a long shot would be to sign up, send test SMS, and then see if those are
delivered. If not you can take it up with AQL.

But I don't know how you would find out if that site used AQL in
the first place (maybe the website source code has clues, but not if it's
all done in the backend on the server).

Care to share an example of one of the sites?

> But if I send her a text to the same number from my Android phone, it
> arrives.
>
> Any suggestions as to how to investigate and fix this? Can mobile phone
> carriers such as Vodafone enable diagnostics that record the receipt of the
> text to their system and then the forwarding of it to the phone?

I think you'd have to ask Vodafone. They may be able to tell if the SMS is
ever presented to their system. However, I don't hold out much hope of
getting through the customer service scripts to find somebody with access to
the logs.

Theo

On 29 Sep 2023 12:48:01 +0100 NY wrote:
>My mother has a Samsung Android phone (not sure of the exact model) with a
>Vodafone monthly-billing SIM.
>
>Various web sites which send a one-time security code by text message fail
>to deliver a code - so it's not a problem that is confined to one site.
>
>But if I send her a text to the same number from my Android phone, it
>arrives.
>
>Any suggestions as to how to investigate and fix this? Can mobile phone
>carriers such as Vodafone enable diagnostics that record the receipt of the
>text to their system and then the forwarding of it to the phone?
>
>I've tried accessing the relevant web sites which send one-time
>security-code texts, using either Firefox or Google Chrome, but it makes no
>difference which browser is used. Also I've tried specifying her number in
>national (07748 xxxxxx) and international (+44 7748 xxxxxx) format.

Are you sure you are sending an SMS and not one of Google's RCS text
messages. Try sending one from an old phone, or an iphone.
--
(Remove numerics from email address)

On 9/29/2023 4:48 AM, NY wrote:

> My mother has a Samsung Android phone (not sure of the exact model)
> with a Vodafone monthly-billing SIM.
>
> Various web sites which send a one-time security code by text
> message fail to deliver a code - so it's not a problem that is
> confined to one site.
>
> But if I send her a text to the same number from my Android phone,
> it arrives.
>
> Any suggestions as to how to investigate and fix this? Can mobile
> phone carriers such as Vodafone enable diagnostics that record the
> receipt of the text to their system and then the forwarding of it to
> the phone?

Most of my sensitive sites give me a choice of email or text for the
security code. If this choice is available, perhaps a workaround?

Fortunately being one-time you only have the hassle once (per
device/site)...

On 29/09/2023 12:48, NY wrote:
> My mother has a Samsung Android phone (not sure of the exact model) with a
> Vodafone monthly-billing SIM.
>
> Various web sites which send a one-time security code by text message fail
> to deliver a code - so it's not a problem that is confined to one site.
>
> But if I send her a text to the same number from my Android phone, it
> arrives.
>
> Any suggestions as to how to investigate and fix this? Can mobile phone
> carriers such as Vodafone enable diagnostics that record the receipt of the
> text to their system and then the forwarding of it to the phone?
>
> I've tried accessing the relevant web sites which send one-time
> security-code texts, using either Firefox or Google Chrome, but it makes no
> difference which browser is used. Also I've tried specifying her number in
> national (07748 xxxxxx) and international (+44 7748 xxxxxx) format.
>

I've had this as well.

There's a special type of text message used for these security codes, and I'm
sorry, but I can't recall the name. It's something like ones without a number.

You may be able to set a phone not to receive these, so perhaps that option is set?

I can't now recall how it was fixed but the provider either fixed it or told me
how. This with O2 (after moving from Virgin). Try asking Vodafone.
--
Cheers,
David
Web: https://www.satsignal.eu

NY <me@privacy.invalid> wrote:

> My mother has a Samsung Android phone (not sure of the exact model) with a
> Vodafone monthly-billing SIM.
>
> Various web sites which send a one-time security code by text message fail
> to deliver a code - so it's not a problem that is confined to one site.
>
> But if I send her a text to the same number from my Android phone, it
> arrives.
>
> Any suggestions as to how to investigate and fix this? Can mobile phone
> carriers such as Vodafone enable diagnostics that record the receipt of the
> text to their system and then the forwarding of it to the phone?
>
> I've tried accessing the relevant web sites which send one-time
> security-code texts, using either Firefox or Google Chrome, but it makes no
> difference which browser is used. Also I've tried specifying her number in
> national (07748 xxxxxx) and international (+44 7748 xxxxxx) format.

From what I've read, on your phone with Vodafone service, call 198 to
get to their message center.

I've read the Vodafone will disconnect your SMS service is not used
within the last 3 months. But you say your texts to her phone are
received by her, so SMS service must still be active.

https://readus247.com/vodafone-message-center-numbers/
The Vodafone Message Center number is a unique number that allows
customers with a Vodafone SIM card to send and receive text messages.
It acts as an intermediary between the cellular network and the
customer’s device, allowing them to stay connected. The SMS gateway
safeguards, transmit, transfigures, and deploys Short Message Service
(SMS) notifications.

To me, that sounds like the VMC is a different number than the phone
number. Are you sending to her phone number, or to a special number,
like 45372, that isn't in phone syntax?

Additionally, the SMSC is used to store and forward messages when a
recipient’s device is turned off or out of range.

Again, looks like texts are sent to a different number than the phone's
own cellular phone number. SMSC is a store-and-forward scheme. Out of
range could mean her phone doesn't have enough signal strength to
receive texts (which, as I recall, requires lower power than making or
receiving phone calls). Is she always in the same place, like at home,
when trying to get those security code texts? How many bars for signal
strength does she see on her phone? More accurate would be to go into
Android settings -> About phone -> Network, and check the dBm strength
noted there.

You would think with a store-and-forward scheme that the texts would
show up when the phone was turned on (obviously texts should not be sent
and discard when the device is not responding, like powered off) and
within range to receive SMS messages. Would be nice if there was some
other way to see stored texts that have not been successfully sent to
the phone, like a web site at Vodaphone where you log into your account
to check on pending SMS messages. I don't use Vodafone to see if they
let you log into your account to check on pending texts. Alas, logic
doesn't dictate function.

On 9/29/23 9:14 AM, AJL wrote:
> On 9/29/2023 4:48 AM, NY wrote:
>
>> My mother has a Samsung Android phone (not sure of the exact model)
>> with a Vodafone monthly-billing SIM.
>>
>> Various web sites which send a one-time security code by text
>> message fail to deliver a code - so it's not a problem that is
>> confined to one site.
>>
>> But if I send her a text to the same number from my Android phone,
>> it arrives.
>>
>> Any suggestions as to how to investigate and fix this? Can mobile
>> phone carriers such as Vodafone enable diagnostics that record the
>> receipt of the text to their system and then the forwarding of it to
>> the phone?
>
> Most of my sensitive sites give me a choice of email or text for the
> security code. If this choice is available, perhaps a workaround?

That would be nice, but they asked for my cell number long ago and
insist on using it now -- with no other option. Moreover, they say I
only have to do it once, but they lie -- every damn time I contact them
they have to send me a text code. I've had the same land-line number
for 60 years and the same email address since google started offering
gmail. I've had it up to HERE with Security Theater.

Granted, these people give me free money once a month, but STILL!

> Fortunately being one-time you only have the hassle once (per
> device/site)...

Assuming honesty and competence.

--
Cheers, Bev
"The primary purpose of any government entity
is to employ the unemployable."

On 9/29/2023 8:59 PM, The Real Bev wrote:
> On 9/29/23 9:14 AM, AJL wrote:

>> Most of my sensitive sites give me a choice of email or text for
>> the security code.

> That would be nice, but they asked for my cell number long ago and
> insist on using it now -- with no other option.

My sensitive sites have both my cell and email on record. Perhaps that's
why they give me a choice.

> Moreover, they say I only have to do it once, but they lie -- every
> damn time I contact them they have to send me a text code.

My sites give me the choice when first signing on to a new app or
device: Require the security code only once after the password is
entered the first time, or require the password + security code be
entered on every visit. I think the latter is overkill and have never
used that option.

> I've had the same land-line number for 60 years and the same email
> address since google started offering gmail. I've had it up to HERE
> with Security Theater.

If my sensitive sites were to get hacked it would be a nightmare for me
so I'm happy to have the extra security.

Further there is added security with the system in that if I get a
security code text or email that I DID NOT request I know my password
has been compromised and can take immediate action.

> Granted, these people give me free money once a month, but STILL!
>
>> Fortunately being one-time you only have the hassle once (per
>> device/site)...

> Assuming honesty and competence.

I have around 20 sensitive sites mostly medical and financial and so
far nary a problem (knocks on wood)...

The Real Bev <bashley101@gmail.com> wrote:

> On 9/29/23 9:14 AM, AJL wrote:
>> On 9/29/2023 4:48 AM, NY wrote:
>>
>>> My mother has a Samsung Android phone (not sure of the exact model)
>>> with a Vodafone monthly-billing SIM.
>>>
>>> Various web sites which send a one-time security code by text
>>> message fail to deliver a code - so it's not a problem that is
>>> confined to one site.
>>>
>>> But if I send her a text to the same number from my Android phone,
>>> it arrives.
>>>
>>> Any suggestions as to how to investigate and fix this? Can mobile
>>> phone carriers such as Vodafone enable diagnostics that record the
>>> receipt of the text to their system and then the forwarding of it to
>>> the phone?
>>
>> Most of my sensitive sites give me a choice of email or text for the
>> security code. If this choice is available, perhaps a workaround?
>
> That would be nice, but they asked for my cell number long ago and
> insist on using it now -- with no other option. Moreover, they say I
> only have to do it once, but they lie -- every damn time I contact them
> they have to send me a text code. I've had the same land-line number
> for 60 years and the same email address since google started offering
> gmail. I've had it up to HERE with Security Theater.
>
> Granted, these people give me free money once a month, but STILL!
>
>> Fortunately being one-time you only have the hassle once (per
>> device/site)...
>
> Assuming honesty and competence.

Some institutions will work with auth apps. My bank integrates with
Authy (authy.com). I could have them send an e-mail with the login
security code, but it may take 2 or 3 times before I actually get it.
Actually they only work with SMS, but Google Voice will send copies of
texts as e-mails to me. That was my first workaround. Then I found
they work with the Authy app (which I have to load before having them
send a code since I don't want it left running all the time). I used
the desktop version of Authy on my Windows desktop. Haven't bothered to
get their Android version.

Check with your bank if they work with an auth app, and which one.
Eliminates having to send the code via text, and wait for the text.

On 30 Sep 2023 00:30:42 -0500 VanguardLH wrote:
>
>Some institutions will work with auth apps. My bank integrates with
>Authy (authy.com).

Here in the UK I've never come accross an 'institution' that offered OTP
using an app like Authy or Google Authenticator. My bank has a
code-generating device and has had one for a decade or more. All the
others adopted SMS and/or email when they were required to use 2FA. Cheap
for them, and they'd rather you used their banking app so they don't care
if it's unreliable.

All the sites I authenticate with a OTP app are techy - github, mozilla,
.... Apart from one: I had to set up OTP 2FA with Adafruit which is a US
tech shop. Well done them. They specified Authy but both andOTP on this
Android tablet and FreeOTP on my iphone work fine. (Both are offline so
not sync'd.)

The SMSes I get are just ordinary SMSes, though they may have a special
way of feeding them to mobile operators. Occasionally they don't arrive
but usually they do - eventually.

>I could have them send an e-mail with the login
>security code, but it may take 2 or 3 times before I actually get it.
>Actually they only work with SMS, but Google Voice will send copies of
>texts as e-mails to me. That was my first workaround. Then I found
>they work with the Authy app (which I have to load before having them
>send a code since I don't want it left running all the time). I used
>the desktop version of Authy on my Windows desktop. Haven't bothered to
>get their Android version.
>
>Check with your bank if they work with an auth app, and which one.
>Eliminates having to send the code via text, and wait for the text.

--
(Remove numerics from email address)

The Real Bev <bashley101@gmail.com> wrote:
> On 9/29/23 9:14 AM, AJL wrote:
>> On 9/29/2023 4:48 AM, NY wrote:
>>
>>> My mother has a Samsung Android phone (not sure of the exact model)
>>> with a Vodafone monthly-billing SIM.
>>>
>>> Various web sites which send a one-time security code by text
>>> message fail to deliver a code - so it's not a problem that is
>>> confined to one site.
>>>
>>> But if I send her a text to the same number from my Android phone,
>>> it arrives.
>>>
>>> Any suggestions as to how to investigate and fix this? Can mobile
>>> phone carriers such as Vodafone enable diagnostics that record the
>>> receipt of the text to their system and then the forwarding of it to
>>> the phone?
>>
>> Most of my sensitive sites give me a choice of email or text for the
>> security code. If this choice is available, perhaps a workaround?
>
> That would be nice, but they asked for my cell number long ago and
> insist on using it now -- with no other option.

That doesn't sound right. There should always be an alternative. What
happens if your phone is stolen? Or you change number?

> Moreover, they say I
> only have to do it once, but they lie -- every damn time I contact them
> they have to send me a text code.

That's usually because you don't retain the cookie. I have the same as I
set Firefox to never store them permanently.

On 9/30/23 1:11 AM, Chris wrote:
> The Real Bev <bashley101@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On 9/29/23 9:14 AM, AJL wrote:
>>> On 9/29/2023 4:48 AM, NY wrote:
>>>
>>>> My mother has a Samsung Android phone (not sure of the exact model)
>>>> with a Vodafone monthly-billing SIM.
>>>>
>>>> Various web sites which send a one-time security code by text
>>>> message fail to deliver a code - so it's not a problem that is
>>>> confined to one site.
>>>>
>>>> But if I send her a text to the same number from my Android phone,
>>>> it arrives.
>>>>
>>>> Any suggestions as to how to investigate and fix this? Can mobile
>>>> phone carriers such as Vodafone enable diagnostics that record the
>>>> receipt of the text to their system and then the forwarding of it to
>>>> the phone?
>>>
>>> Most of my sensitive sites give me a choice of email or text for the
>>> security code. If this choice is available, perhaps a workaround?
>>
>> That would be nice, but they asked for my cell number long ago and
>> insist on using it now -- with no other option.
>
> That doesn't sound right. There should always be an alternative. What
> happens if your phone is stolen? Or you change number?

I will have to deal with their Customer Service function in one way or
another. I have found that people who say that my call is important to
them are lying through their teeth. If I had to do it I would probably
regard the investment of an hour of my time as the price I have to pay.

>> Moreover, they say I
>> only have to do it once, but they lie -- every damn time I contact them
>> they have to send me a text code.
>
> That's usually because you don't retain the cookie. I have the same as I
> set Firefox to never store them permanently.

I accept every cookie that anyone wants to give me and I don't bother to
delete them. I figure any resources they waste trying to figure out how
to sell me stuff is to MY benefit.

--
Cheers, Bev
Just as you cannot explain snow to a summer insect, so also you cannot
explain ski resorts to someone who walks uphill willingly. --ErikL

The Real Bev <bashley101@gmail.com> wrote:

> I will have to deal with their Customer Service function in one way or
> another. I have found that people who say that my call is important
> to them are lying through their teeth. If I had to do it I would
> probably regard the investment of an hour of my time as the price I
> have to pay.

Just an hour? I've too often been on the phone well over 4 hours trying
to get them to resolve a problem.

First-level techs answering incoming support calls are keen on reciting
canned replies from a database. They throw some keywords at the
database to get a list of candidate responses. Often they'll have you
do actions that you already performed before calling them. Desite you
telling them that you did that, they'll still want to read to you their
canned responses. Often I pretend that I did what they wanted: they say
to do what I've already done, I pause as though I was doing it, and then
say that didn't work, and they move on to their next canned response.
Eventually when it becomes clear that they've ran out of canned
responses, I use the special trigger word: escalate. No matter how long
you discuss the problem, they won't release it, but they are also under
pressure to handle as many calls as possible, so they want to move onto
the next call.

State you want to ESCALATE the issue to a higher tier of tech support,
and ask if they'll give you an issue ticket number, so if you call later
you can refer to the ticket number to avoid the rigamarole of going
through 1st level techs again. Saying "escalate" triggers them to end
the call after issuing a ticket to send to higher support. Sometimes
the call ends at that point, and you wait for higher support to call you
back, or you get redirected to another department, but be sure if
redirected that you get the name of that higher support department, and
possible what number to call to reach them directly. If the redirection
fails (you get disconnected), you have a number to reach that department
instead of having to go through 1st level support again.

On 9/30/23 1:08 PM, VanguardLH wrote:
> The Real Bev <bashley101@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> I will have to deal with their Customer Service function in one way or
>> another. I have found that people who say that my call is important
>> to them are lying through their teeth. If I had to do it I would
>> probably regard the investment of an hour of my time as the price I
>> have to pay.
>
> Just an hour? I've too often been on the phone well over 4 hours trying
> to get them to resolve a problem.
>
> First-level techs answering incoming support calls are keen on reciting
> canned replies from a database. They throw some keywords at the
> database to get a list of candidate responses. Often they'll have you
> do actions that you already performed before calling them. Desite you
> telling them that you did that, they'll still want to read to you their
> canned responses. Often I pretend that I did what they wanted: they say
> to do what I've already done, I pause as though I was doing it, and then
> say that didn't work, and they move on to their next canned response.
> Eventually when it becomes clear that they've ran out of canned
> responses, I use the special trigger word: escalate. No matter how long
> you discuss the problem, they won't release it, but they are also under
> pressure to handle as many calls as possible, so they want to move onto
> the next call.
>
> State you want to ESCALATE the issue to a higher tier of tech support,
> and ask if they'll give you an issue ticket number, so if you call later
> you can refer to the ticket number to avoid the rigamarole of going
> through 1st level techs again. Saying "escalate" triggers them to end
> the call after issuing a ticket to send to higher support. Sometimes
> the call ends at that point, and you wait for higher support to call you
> back, or you get redirected to another department, but be sure if
> redirected that you get the name of that higher support department, and
> possible what number to call to reach them directly. If the redirection
> fails (you get disconnected), you have a number to reach that department
> instead of having to go through 1st level support again.

this is the BEST outcome. "Average" outcome is somewhat different.
"Elevate" also seems to work. I do that after their first wrong/stupid
attempt. The phrase "next tier" is sometimes helpful.

The 'chat' functions are kind of worse because if you move to a
different tab/screen the bastards will probably kick you off for
non-responsiveness.

The real killer -- "Let me put you on hold..." and the dial tone kicks in.

--
Cheers, Bev
"Look again at that dot. That's here. That's home. That's us. On
it everyone you love, everyone you know, everyone you ever heard of,

every human being who ever was, lived out their lives." -- Carl Sagan

On 29/09/2023 12:48, NY wrote:
> My mother has a Samsung Android phone (not sure of the exact model) with
> a Vodafone monthly-billing SIM.
>
> Various web sites which send a one-time security code by text message
> fail to deliver a code - so it's not a problem that is confined to one
> site.
>
> But if I send her a text to the same number from my Android phone, it
> arrives.

Mum phoned me last night with the solution. She'd asked in her local
Vodafone shop a few days earlier and the guy wasn't sure but said he'd
think about it. She went back in yesterday after talking to me, and the
guy said "I'm glad you've come back. A thought occurred to me after
you'd gone. Let me check something."

It turned out that her phone has two apps, both called "Messages". One
was the Samsung SMS app, and the other was the Google app. Somehow
*both* were set to receive text messages. Mum had only been looking in
the Samsung app - that was the one which was on one of her home screens
- and didn't know about the Google one which was only present on the
Apps screen. I'd never heard of the Google "Messages" app either, and
when I'd seen it on my own Apps screen I'd thought that it was the same
one (the Samsung app) as on my Home screen - same name and similar icon.

There were loads of text messages in the Google app, all the "never
arrived" one-time codes from banks, credit-card companies etc. The
Vodafone guy reconfigured the phone to make the Samsung app the *only*
recipient for SMS messages.

Someone in this thread talked about different protocols for text
messages, and I think that is what had happened on Mum's phone. Text
messages from *people* (me, my sister, friends, etc) were being received
on the Samsung app, but automated texts from banks were going to the
Google one, maybe because they used a different protocol.

So, problem solved.

VanguardLH <V@nguard.LH> wrote:
> The Real Bev <bashley101@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> I will have to deal with their Customer Service function in one way or
>> another. I have found that people who say that my call is important
>> to them are lying through their teeth. If I had to do it I would
>> probably regard the investment of an hour of my time as the price I
>> have to pay.
>
> Just an hour? I've too often been on the phone well over 4 hours trying
> to get them to resolve a problem.

Why don't you you move?

Here, in the UK, that level of "service" would be unacceptable.

On 9/30/23 2:47 PM, Chris wrote:
> VanguardLH <V@nguard.LH> wrote:
>> The Real Bev <bashley101@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> I will have to deal with their Customer Service function in one way or
>>> another. I have found that people who say that my call is important
>>> to them are lying through their teeth. If I had to do it I would
>>> probably regard the investment of an hour of my time as the price I
>>> have to pay.
>>
>> Just an hour? I've too often been on the phone well over 4 hours trying
>> to get them to resolve a problem.
>
> Why don't you you move?
>
> Here, in the UK, that level of "service" would be unacceptable.

We find it unacceptable too, we just can't do anything about it. OTOH,
we have good dentistry :-)

--
Cheers, Bev
"I am working for the time when unqualified blacks, browns and
women join the unqualified men in running our government"
-- Cissy Farenthold

Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> wrote:

> VanguardLH <V@nguard.LH> wrote:
>
>> The Real Bev <bashley101@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> I will have to deal with their Customer Service function in one way or
>>> another. I have found that people who say that my call is important
>>> to them are lying through their teeth. If I had to do it I would
>>> probably regard the investment of an hour of my time as the price I
>>> have to pay.
>>
>> Just an hour? I've too often been on the phone well over 4 hours trying
>> to get them to resolve a problem.
>
> Why don't you you move?
> Here, in the UK, that level of "service" would be unacceptable.

To whom would you complain about service you don't like?

On Sat, 30 Sep 2023 09:32:10 -0700, The Real Bev wrote:
> I have found that people who say that my call is important to
> them are lying through their teeth.

Just once I would love to hear a company being honest:

"Your call is important to us, but not important enough for us to
hire enough service reps to answer the phones in a reasonable time."

--
Stan Brown, Tehachapi, California, USA https://BrownMath.com/
Shikata ga nai...

On Sat, 30 Sep 2023 22:41:51 +0100, NY wrote:
> Mum had only been looking in
> the Samsung app - that was the one which was on one of her home screens
> - and didn't know about the Google one which was only present on the
> Apps screen. I'd never heard of the Google "Messages" app either, and
> when I'd seen it on my own Apps screen I'd thought that it was the same
> one (the Samsung app) as on my Home screen - same name and similar icon.

As a new owner of my first Samsung phone, I observed that Samsung has
its own Messages, Phone, and Contacts apps. None of them seems
markedly better than the Google versions (because Google is, you
know, the creator of Android), and Contacts at least has a noticeably
crappier interface.

In another thread I asked how to change the default contacts app to
Google from Samsung, since there doesn't seem to be any way to do it
in Samsung's UI. Unfortunately, no one has posted a reply giving a
procedure. One person did suggest installing the Google Phone app and
setting that as default phone app (which Samsung's UI seems to
provide for), and I'm about ready to try that if nothing better turns
up.

--
Stan Brown, Tehachapi, California, USA https://BrownMath.com/
Shikata ga nai...

Stan Brown <the_stan_brown@fastmail.fm> wrote

> As a new owner of my first Samsung phone, I observed that Samsung has
> its own Messages, Phone, and Contacts apps. None of them seems
> markedly better than the Google versions (because Google is, you
> know, the creator of Android), and Contacts at least has a noticeably
> crappier interface.

Hi Stan,
I've seen you over on the Windows newsgroup helping people a lot.
That's good of you - where you seem to be relatively new to the Android ng.

I tried to respond to your previous thread but I didn't really have enough
knowledge to help you out. I also have a Samsung Galaxy and I do NOT use
the Google apps if I can help it (for privacy reasons, that's why).

If you have any questions, I can help you with what apps I use, but bear in
mind I'm different from most people because my goal with apps is privacy.

1. Messages => last known good open source version of PulseSMS 5.4.6.2816
2. Contacts => opencontacts.open.com.opencontacts version 28.0
3. Dialer => com.simplemobiletools.dialer version 5.16.0 (46)
> In another thread I asked how to change the default contacts app to
> Google from Samsung, since there doesn't seem to be any way to do it
> in Samsung's UI. Unfortunately, no one has posted a reply giving a
> procedure. One person did suggest installing the Google Phone app and
> setting that as default phone app (which Samsung's UI seems to
> provide for), and I'm about ready to try that if nothing better turns
> up.

I tried responding to your post when I first saw it but then I realized it
was too tough of a question for me to answer properly so I canned it.

Here, for the record, is the _unfinished_ response I made days ago for you.
NOTE: THIS IS UNFINISHED as I gave up when it got too deep for me to help.

===< cut below here for my unfinished response >===
Stan Brown <the_stan_brown@fastmail.fm> wrote

> I've spent a couple of hours Googling, and while I found lots of
> copies of the same few answers, none of them worked.[*]
> MY SETUP: Android 13 Samsung Galaxy A54 5G phone, a couple of weeks
> old. I'm using the factory Samsung Phone app.

Be careful when describing icons for dialers because they all look alike.
And they're all named "Phone" so you really have to note the package name.
<https://i.postimg.cc/wBqYjyVT/phone01.jpg >

You're probably talking about com.samsung.android.dialer (which is one of
the many phone dialers I have on my Samsung Galaxy A32-5G T-Mobile phone).
Notice in the screenshot three "green" "phone" dialers - all look alike.

What I currently use on a similar phone (A32-5G, Android 13) is described
in gory details on some of the threads at the XDA Developers' web site.
<https://forum.xda-developers.com/m/galaxya325g.11604613/recent-content>
XDA Developers should have a section for the Samsung Galaxy A54G also.

> I don't like the UI in
> the Samsung Contacts app, so I downloaded the Google Contacts app
> from the Google Play Store, since I used and liked it on my old
> phone.

Likewise, based on my search just now, I think the Samsung contacts
app is called <com.samsung.android.app.contacts> on the Galaxy series.
<https://i.postimg.cc/W38s6RNj/contact01.jpg>

> It works just fine, and can connect to the Samsung Phone and
> Messages apps when I want to make calls and send texts.
> I removed the Samsung Contacts app icon from my home screen and
> added the Google contacts icon to my home screen.

You can also uninstall any app, including system apps, using adb.
C:\> adb shell pm uninstall -k --user 0 com.samsung.android.app.contacts
This works for the user (not admin) without needing to be rooted.

Note it's "better" than just removing it from the homescreen.
You can _always_ get it back if you need to, by the way, using adb.
C:\> adb shell cmd package install-existing com.samsung.android.app.contacts

The reason re-installing works is that the APK is _always_ saved on Android
for _every_ app (which is why and how those Android APK archivers work).
WIP WIP WIP WIP unfinished WIP...

===< cut above here for my unfinished response >===

On 30/09/2023 22:41, NY wrote:
> On 29/09/2023 12:48, NY wrote:
>> My mother has a Samsung Android phone (not sure of the exact model) with
>> a Vodafone monthly-billing SIM.
>>
>> Various web sites which send a one-time security code by text message
>> fail to deliver a code - so it's not a problem that is confined to one
>> site.
>>
>> But if I send her a text to the same number from my Android phone, it
>> arrives.
>
> Mum phoned me last night with the solution. She'd asked in her local
> Vodafone shop a few days earlier and the guy wasn't sure but said he'd
> think about it. She went back in yesterday after talking to me, and the
> guy said "I'm glad you've come back. A thought occurred to me after
> you'd gone. Let me check something."
>
> It turned out that her phone has two apps, both called "Messages". One
> was the Samsung SMS app, and the other was the Google app. Somehow
> *both* were set to receive text messages. Mum had only been looking in
> the Samsung app - that was the one which was on one of her home screens
> - and didn't know about the Google one which was only present on the
> Apps screen. I'd never heard of the Google "Messages" app either, and
> when I'd seen it on my own Apps screen I'd thought that it was the same
> one (the Samsung app) as on my Home screen - same name and similar icon.
>
> There were loads of text messages in the Google app, all the "never
> arrived" one-time codes from banks, credit-card companies etc. The
> Vodafone guy reconfigured the phone to make the Samsung app the *only*
> recipient for SMS messages.
>
> Someone in this thread talked about different protocols for text
> messages, and I think that is what had happened on Mum's phone. Text
> messages from *people* (me, my sister, friends, etc) were being received
> on the Samsung app, but automated texts from banks were going to the
> Google one, maybe because they used a different protocol.
>
> So, problem solved.

Delighted to hear that's fixed.

Perhaps my suggestion about different message types may have been correct.
--
Cheers,
David
Web: https://www.satsignal.eu

On 30 Sep 2023 22:41:51 +0100 NY wrote:
>
>
>Mum phoned me last night with the solution. She'd asked in her local
>Vodafone shop a few days earlier and the guy wasn't sure but said he'd
>think about it. She went back in yesterday after talking to me, and the
>guy said "I'm glad you've come back. A thought occurred to me after
>you'd gone. Let me check something."
>
>It turned out that her phone has two apps, both called "Messages". One
>was the Samsung SMS app, and the other was the Google app. Somehow
>*both* were set to receive text messages. Mum had only been looking in
>the Samsung app - that was the one which was on one of her home screens
>- and didn't know about the Google one which was only present on the
>Apps screen. I'd never heard of the Google "Messages" app either, and
>when I'd seen it on my own Apps screen I'd thought that it was the same
>one (the Samsung app) as on my Home screen - same name and similar icon.
>
>There were loads of text messages in the Google app, all the "never
>arrived" one-time codes from banks, credit-card companies etc. The
>Vodafone guy reconfigured the phone to make the Samsung app the *only*
>recipient for SMS messages.
>
>Someone in this thread talked about different protocols for text
>messages, and I think that is what had happened on Mum's phone. Text
>messages from *people* (me, my sister, friends, etc) were being received
>on the Samsung app, but automated texts from banks were going to the
>Google one, maybe because they used a different protocol.
>
>So, problem solved.

There /are/ two types of messages on Android phones - old style SMSes and
Google's new RCS. Bank codes use ordinary SMSes.

Samsung are switching to Google's app as the default message app - it
started last year - but somehow this phone ended up with SMSes only going
to Google's app. Maybe SMSes can only go to one.

Your messages to her were going as RCS messages not SMSes. Did they arrive
in /both/ apps?

Googling, most people seem to prefer Google's message app. This is an
Android tablet so I can't use either.
--
(Remove numerics from email address)

On 01/10/2023 07:47, Dave Royal wrote:
> There /are/ two types of messages on Android phones - old style SMSes and
> Google's new RCS. Bank codes use ordinary SMSes.

Just by chance, I found the message type for SMS security confirmation messages.

They are called "Short Code SMS" messages, and on one verification message, I
noted that I could not reply to it.

--
Cheers,
David
Web: https://www.satsignal.eu

On Sun, 01 Oct 2023 09:00:46 +0100, David Taylor wrote:

> On 01/10/2023 07:47, Dave Royal wrote:
>> There /are/ two types of messages on Android phones - old style SMSes
>> and Google's new RCS. Bank codes use ordinary SMSes.
>
> Just by chance, I found the message type for SMS security confirmation
> messages.
>
> They are called "Short Code SMS" messages, and on one verification
> message, I noted that I could not reply to it.

They come from a "short code" instead of a phone number. Businesses and
organisations use them and some aim to be memorable. Anyone in the UK who
travels by train will know the short code for the Britsh Transport Police
- 61016.

Apart from the originator code I'm pretty sure they're just SMSes as far
as the phone is concerned.
--
(Remove any numerics from my email address.)