At the moment is it 7 degrees C and will get up to 16 degrees today. While you can easily dress for those temperatures on the flats, descending in those temperatures most definitely isn't a great deal of fun. Even though this is well above freezing I have had many times riding into what should be perfectly dry areas that appear to be dry and yet have a layer of glare ice. This inclines one to ride on routes that are more directly exposed to the sunlight. None of my favorite climbing routes are this way. So I will do yet another flat route today.

On Sunday, November 7, 2021 at 7:32:13 AM UTC-8, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
> At the moment is it 7 degrees C and will get up to 16 degrees today. While you can easily dress for those temperatures on the flats, descending in those temperatures most definitely isn't a great deal of fun. Even though this is well above freezing I have had many times riding into what should be perfectly dry areas that appear to be dry and yet have a layer of glare ice.. This inclines one to ride on routes that are more directly exposed to the sunlight. None of my favorite climbing routes are this way. So I will do yet another flat route today.

Dude, this is the US of A. Speak Fahrenheit. 16C is 60F, which is balmy. 7C is 44F, which is tights weather. Neither is brutal, even descending. It's East Bay not SF. To refresh: https://i.pinimg.com/originals/60/fe/5c/60fe5c2cbca49d67244deaa838219fe7.jpg

Tip for dressing: take off jacket so you don't sweat to death on the climb. Put jacket back on for descent. Or you could always ride the flats, that's O.K.

I just got a text from my son who is about to leave on a "big" ride with his Specialized cohorts in SLC, which means like a billion feet of climbing. I'll have to lie about my own ride, "son, that's great, but I did 100 miles and 40,000 feet of climbing!" That is the beauty of not being on Strava. And its not a lie. I just round-up to the nearest 100 miles and 40,000 feet, so even a trip to the grocery store is 100 miles and 40,000 feet. My mileage for the year is like 20,000 miles -- even with a broken leg.

-- Jay Beattie.

On Sunday, November 7, 2021 at 8:10:29 AM UTC-8, jbeattie wrote:
> On Sunday, November 7, 2021 at 7:32:13 AM UTC-8, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
> > At the moment is it 7 degrees C and will get up to 16 degrees today. While you can easily dress for those temperatures on the flats, descending in those temperatures most definitely isn't a great deal of fun. Even though this is well above freezing I have had many times riding into what should be perfectly dry areas that appear to be dry and yet have a layer of glare ice. This inclines one to ride on routes that are more directly exposed to the sunlight. None of my favorite climbing routes are this way. So I will do yet another flat route today.
> Dude, this is the US of A. Speak Fahrenheit. 16C is 60F, which is balmy. 7C is 44F, which is tights weather. Neither is brutal, even descending. It's East Bay not SF. To refresh: https://i.pinimg.com/originals/60/fe/5c/60fe5c2cbca49d67244deaa838219fe7.jpg
>
> Tip for dressing: take off jacket so you don't sweat to death on the climb. Put jacket back on for descent. Or you could always ride the flats, that's O.K.
>
> I just got a text from my son who is about to leave on a "big" ride with his Specialized cohorts in SLC, which means like a billion feet of climbing.. I'll have to lie about my own ride, "son, that's great, but I did 100 miles and 40,000 feet of climbing!" That is the beauty of not being on Strava. And its not a lie. I just round-up to the nearest 100 miles and 40,000 feet, so even a trip to the grocery store is 100 miles and 40,000 feet. My mileage for the year is like 20,000 miles -- even with a broken leg.

You're perfectly welcome to come on a ride with me sans E-bike and then tell me about temperatures.

jbeattie <jbeattie57@msn.com> wrote:
> On Sunday, November 7, 2021 at 7:32:13 AM UTC-8, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
>> At the moment is it 7 degrees C and will get up to 16 degrees today.
>> While you can easily dress for those temperatures on the flats,
>> descending in those temperatures most definitely isn't a great deal of
>> fun. Even though this is well above freezing I have had many times
>> riding into what should be perfectly dry areas that appear to be dry and
>> yet have a layer of glare ice. This inclines one to ride on routes that
>> are more directly exposed to the sunlight. None of my favorite climbing
>> routes are this way. So I will do yet another flat route today.
>
> Dude, this is the US of A. Speak Fahrenheit. 16C is 60F, which is
> balmy. 7C is 44F, which is tights weather. Neither is brutal, even
> descending. It's East Bay not SF. To refresh:
> https://i.pinimg.com/originals/60/fe/5c/60fe5c2cbca49d67244deaa838219fe7.jpg
>

Dude, most of the world speaks Celsius.

> Tip for dressing: take off jacket so you don't sweat to death on the
> climb. Put jacket back on for descent. Or you could always ride the flats, that's O.K.
>
> I just got a text from my son who is about to leave on a "big" ride with
> his Specialized cohorts in SLC, which means like a billion feet of
> climbing. I'll have to lie about my own ride, "son, that's great, but I
> did 100 miles and 40,000 feet of climbing!" That is the beauty of not
> being on Strava. And its not a lie. I just round-up to the nearest 100
> miles and 40,000 feet, so even a trip to the grocery store is 100 miles
> and 40,000 feet. My mileage for the year is like 20,000 miles -- even with a broken leg.
>
> -- Jay Beattie.
>
>
>
>

On Sunday, November 7, 2021 at 9:16:07 AM UTC-8, Ralph Barone wrote:
> jbeattie <jbeat...@msn.com> wrote:
> > On Sunday, November 7, 2021 at 7:32:13 AM UTC-8, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
> >> At the moment is it 7 degrees C and will get up to 16 degrees today.
> >> While you can easily dress for those temperatures on the flats,
> >> descending in those temperatures most definitely isn't a great deal of
> >> fun. Even though this is well above freezing I have had many times
> >> riding into what should be perfectly dry areas that appear to be dry and
> >> yet have a layer of glare ice. This inclines one to ride on routes that
> >> are more directly exposed to the sunlight. None of my favorite climbing
> >> routes are this way. So I will do yet another flat route today.
> >
> > Dude, this is the US of A. Speak Fahrenheit. 16C is 60F, which is
> > balmy. 7C is 44F, which is tights weather. Neither is brutal, even
> > descending. It's East Bay not SF. To refresh:
> > https://i.pinimg.com/originals/60/fe/5c/60fe5c2cbca49d67244deaa838219fe7.jpg
> >
> Dude, most of the world speaks Celsius.
> > Tip for dressing: take off jacket so you don't sweat to death on the
> > climb. Put jacket back on for descent. Or you could always ride the flats, that's O.K.
> >
> > I just got a text from my son who is about to leave on a "big" ride with
> > his Specialized cohorts in SLC, which means like a billion feet of
> > climbing. I'll have to lie about my own ride, "son, that's great, but I
> > did 100 miles and 40,000 feet of climbing!" That is the beauty of not
> > being on Strava. And its not a lie. I just round-up to the nearest 100
> > miles and 40,000 feet, so even a trip to the grocery store is 100 miles
> > and 40,000 feet. My mileage for the year is like 20,000 miles -- even with a broken leg.

Shhh. He's being a lawyer and rebutting.

On Sunday, November 7, 2021 at 9:28:48 AM UTC-8, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Sunday, November 7, 2021 at 9:16:07 AM UTC-8, Ralph Barone wrote:
> > jbeattie <jbeat...@msn.com> wrote:
> > > On Sunday, November 7, 2021 at 7:32:13 AM UTC-8, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
> > >> At the moment is it 7 degrees C and will get up to 16 degrees today.
> > >> While you can easily dress for those temperatures on the flats,
> > >> descending in those temperatures most definitely isn't a great deal of
> > >> fun. Even though this is well above freezing I have had many times
> > >> riding into what should be perfectly dry areas that appear to be dry and
> > >> yet have a layer of glare ice. This inclines one to ride on routes that
> > >> are more directly exposed to the sunlight. None of my favorite climbing
> > >> routes are this way. So I will do yet another flat route today.
> > >
> > > Dude, this is the US of A. Speak Fahrenheit. 16C is 60F, which is
> > > balmy. 7C is 44F, which is tights weather. Neither is brutal, even
> > > descending. It's East Bay not SF. To refresh:
> > > https://i.pinimg.com/originals/60/fe/5c/60fe5c2cbca49d67244deaa838219fe7.jpg
> > >
> > Dude, most of the world speaks Celsius.
> > > Tip for dressing: take off jacket so you don't sweat to death on the
> > > climb. Put jacket back on for descent. Or you could always ride the flats, that's O.K.
> > >
> > > I just got a text from my son who is about to leave on a "big" ride with
> > > his Specialized cohorts in SLC, which means like a billion feet of
> > > climbing. I'll have to lie about my own ride, "son, that's great, but I
> > > did 100 miles and 40,000 feet of climbing!" That is the beauty of not
> > > being on Strava. And its not a lie. I just round-up to the nearest 100
> > > miles and 40,000 feet, so even a trip to the grocery store is 100 miles
> > > and 40,000 feet. My mileage for the year is like 20,000 miles -- even with a broken leg.
> Shhh. He's being a lawyer and rebutting.

Rebutting what -- that few USians know what 7C is without the assistance of an on-line calculator? And sure, I'll ride with you in the East Bay on any bike. I'm still sitting around contemplating a ride because it is raining cats and dogs and 47F. Sunny East Bay would be a clear improvement, apart from the fact that I'd have to slog across Oakland to get out to the country.

Notwithstanding the rain, I can roll out of my house, go down the hill and do something boring and short around the Lake O hills -- and skip the trudge through town. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KBbHDhnt1-U&ab_channel=JonHayes I've certainly got the clothes and some swanky new Specialized neoprene booties. I don't really have the desire, but I've got to get tough again, because I'm looking at months of rain with days of snow and ice. Its not like California where you can just skip riding the three days it rains. The only plus is that it isn't the Mid West where they have real winters..

-- Jay Beattie.

On 11/7/2021 10:10 AM, jbeattie wrote:
> On Sunday, November 7, 2021 at 7:32:13 AM UTC-8, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
>> At the moment is it 7 degrees C and will get up to 16 degrees today. While you can easily dress for those temperatures on the flats, descending in those temperatures most definitely isn't a great deal of fun. Even though this is well above freezing I have had many times riding into what should be perfectly dry areas that appear to be dry and yet have a layer of glare ice. This inclines one to ride on routes that are more directly exposed to the sunlight. None of my favorite climbing routes are this way. So I will do yet another flat route today.
>
> Dude, this is the US of A. Speak Fahrenheit. 16C is 60F, which is balmy. 7C is 44F, which is tights weather. Neither is brutal, even descending. It's East Bay not SF. To refresh: https://i.pinimg.com/originals/60/fe/5c/60fe5c2cbca49d67244deaa838219fe7.jpg
>
> Tip for dressing: take off jacket so you don't sweat to death on the climb. Put jacket back on for descent. Or you could always ride the flats, that's O.K.
>
> I just got a text from my son who is about to leave on a "big" ride with his Specialized cohorts in SLC, which means like a billion feet of climbing. I'll have to lie about my own ride, "son, that's great, but I did 100 miles and 40,000 feet of climbing!" That is the beauty of not being on Strava. And its not a lie. I just round-up to the nearest 100 miles and 40,000 feet, so even a trip to the grocery store is 100 miles and 40,000 feet. My mileage for the year is like 20,000 miles -- even with a broken leg.
>
> -- Jay Beattie.
>
>
>

heh heh.
It was a very warm for November 28F this morning and warmed
up quickly. Which sounds brutal as " minus 3C", despite not
being cool at all, given the calendar.

--
Andrew Muzi
<www.yellowjersey.org/>
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On Sunday, November 7, 2021 at 12:06:49 PM UTC-6, AMuzi wrote:
> On 11/7/2021 10:10 AM, jbeattie wrote:
> > On Sunday, November 7, 2021 at 7:32:13 AM UTC-8, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
> >> At the moment is it 7 degrees C and will get up to 16 degrees today. While you can easily dress for those temperatures on the flats, descending in those temperatures most definitely isn't a great deal of fun. Even though this is well above freezing I have had many times riding into what should be perfectly dry areas that appear to be dry and yet have a layer of glare ice. This inclines one to ride on routes that are more directly exposed to the sunlight. None of my favorite climbing routes are this way. So I will do yet another flat route today.
> >
> > Dude, this is the US of A. Speak Fahrenheit. 16C is 60F, which is balmy.. 7C is 44F, which is tights weather. Neither is brutal, even descending. It's East Bay not SF. To refresh: https://i.pinimg.com/originals/60/fe/5c/60fe5c2cbca49d67244deaa838219fe7.jpg
> >
> > Tip for dressing: take off jacket so you don't sweat to death on the climb. Put jacket back on for descent. Or you could always ride the flats, that's O.K.
> >
> > I just got a text from my son who is about to leave on a "big" ride with his Specialized cohorts in SLC, which means like a billion feet of climbing. I'll have to lie about my own ride, "son, that's great, but I did 100 miles and 40,000 feet of climbing!" That is the beauty of not being on Strava. And its not a lie. I just round-up to the nearest 100 miles and 40,000 feet, so even a trip to the grocery store is 100 miles and 40,000 feet. My mileage for the year is like 20,000 miles -- even with a broken leg.
> >
> > -- Jay Beattie.
> >
> >
> >
> heh heh.
> It was a very warm for November 28F this morning and warmed
> up quickly. Which sounds brutal as " minus 3C", despite not
> being cool at all, given the calendar.
>
> --
> Andrew Muzi
> <www.yellowjersey.org/>
> Open every day since 1 April, 1971

As long as it is dry and no real wind I have no trouble riding down to about 27F. If the wind is above 10 then 35-40F and try and stay out of it. I have closed circuit I ride of 5 miles that blocks a lot of wind and since it runs in a big figure 8, the wind is only at you some of the time. I wear Bike Gore Soft Shell Jacket, which is essentially Gore Text jacket, base layer under of poly fleece (https://www.farmandfleet.com/products/g-10814-work-n-sport-mens-30-ecws-poly-fleece-crew.html). I put on a balaclava and lined ragg wool mittens. My only issue is the toes and feet will eventually go numb. The idea is to ride until that gets enough that I have to stop. I also wear running tights over my bike shorts. I have some that are thinner and some thicker. Then I have wool socks I pull up over the bottom of the pants.. Last two morning here have been around 30-33F and no wind so not bad really and I start before sunrise to ride.

All in all it works and it a good work out in the cold. Much better than a trainer when you do it. In Illinois we never deal with even small hills but look out for the wind. Also not good to ride on the ice. I did that once and that was enough. 3 screws to pin my broken hip after falling over right on the hip. Lucky for me it was not displaced and I manage to return to even running in 15 weeks. But seriously ice is nothing to deal with.
Deacon Mark

On 11/7/2021 11:10 AM, jbeattie wrote:
> On Sunday, November 7, 2021 at 7:32:13 AM UTC-8, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
>> At the moment is it 7 degrees C and will get up to 16 degrees today. While you can easily dress for those temperatures on the flats, descending in those temperatures most definitely isn't a great deal of fun. Even though this is well above freezing I have had many times riding into what should be perfectly dry areas that appear to be dry and yet have a layer of glare ice. This inclines one to ride on routes that are more directly exposed to the sunlight. None of my favorite climbing routes are this way. So I will do yet another flat route today.
>
> Dude, this is the US of A. Speak Fahrenheit. 16C is 60F, which is balmy. 7C is 44F, which is tights weather. Neither is brutal, even descending.

I agree with Jay, and think 60F is perfect. Although people differ. My
wife's comfort zone is from 70F to 72F. (That's 21C to 22C). Outside of
that I'll probably hear some minor complaints. But I understand
Raynaud's Syndrome can be hell.

> Tip for dressing: take off jacket so you don't sweat to death on the climb.
And put it in your handlebar bag! ;-)

--
- Frank Krygowski

On 11/7/2021 12:16 PM, Ralph Barone wrote:
> jbeattie <jbeattie57@msn.com> wrote:
>> On Sunday, November 7, 2021 at 7:32:13 AM UTC-8, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
>>> At the moment is it 7 degrees C and will get up to 16 degrees today.
>>
>> Dude, this is the US of A. Speak Fahrenheit. 16C is 60F, which is
>> balmy. 7C is 44F, which is tights weather. Neither is brutal, even
>> descending. It's East Bay not SF. To refresh:
>> https://i.pinimg.com/originals/60/fe/5c/60fe5c2cbca49d67244deaa838219fe7.jpg
>>
>
> Dude, most of the world speaks Celsius.

I'm a big fan of the SI system, but not for temperatures regarding human
comfort. Fahrenheit works far better.

By coincidence, this was the topic in the "Ask Marilyn" column in
today's newspaper. Marilyn (supposedly owner of the highest IQ ever
recorded) agreed.

As she and others have said, zero Fahrenheit is the lowest temperature
most Americans would ever put up with outdoors, and 100 Fahrenheit is
the highest. It wasn't designed that way, but the scale just happens to
match the human comfort range.

As to Celsius, I remember a few approximate landmarks: Zero is freezing,
10C is about 50F, 16C flips around to 61F, 20 C is 68F (commonly used in
engineering), 28C flips to 82F, and 32 would be freezing on the
Fahrenheit scale but its Celsius version is a really hot 90F instead. In
between, I approximate with one degree C = ~ two degrees F.

--
- Frank Krygowski

On 11/7/2021 4:07 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> On 11/7/2021 12:16 PM, Ralph Barone wrote:
>> jbeattie <jbeattie57@msn.com> wrote:
>>> On Sunday, November 7, 2021 at 7:32:13 AM UTC-8,
>>> cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
>>>> At the moment is it 7 degrees C and will get up to 16
>>>> degrees today.
>>>
>>> Dude, this is the US of A. Speak Fahrenheit. 16C is
>>> 60F, which is
>>> balmy. 7C is 44F, which is tights weather. Neither is
>>> brutal, even
>>> descending. It's East Bay not SF. To refresh:
>>> https://i.pinimg.com/originals/60/fe/5c/60fe5c2cbca49d67244deaa838219fe7.jpg
>>>
>>>
>>
>> Dude, most of the world speaks Celsius.
>
> I'm a big fan of the SI system, but not for temperatures
> regarding human comfort. Fahrenheit works far better.
>
> By coincidence, this was the topic in the "Ask Marilyn"
> column in today's newspaper. Marilyn (supposedly owner of
> the highest IQ ever recorded) agreed.
>
> As she and others have said, zero Fahrenheit is the lowest
> temperature most Americans would ever put up with outdoors,
> and 100 Fahrenheit is the highest. It wasn't designed that
> way, but the scale just happens to match the human comfort
> range.
>
> As to Celsius, I remember a few approximate landmarks: Zero
> is freezing, 10C is about 50F, 16C flips around to 61F, 20 C
> is 68F (commonly used in engineering), 28C flips to 82F, and
> 32 would be freezing on the Fahrenheit scale but its Celsius
> version is a really hot 90F instead. In between, I
> approximate with one degree C = ~ two degrees F.
>
>
>

It's mere familiarity & custom (see also jeans with pre-slit
knees, pocket protectors, handlebar bags etc).

Sorry to disagree with Ms dos Savant and you but
freezing/boiling points of water, average human body, any
other universal points are the same thing, merely expressed
on various scales. You might just as well argue Kelvin as
Fahrenheit.

"Oh, sweetie it's a perfect 293K this morning, let's go for
a ride!".

--
Andrew Muzi
<www.yellowjersey.org/>
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On Sunday, November 7, 2021 at 10:06:49 AM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote:
> On 11/7/2021 10:10 AM, jbeattie wrote:
> > On Sunday, November 7, 2021 at 7:32:13 AM UTC-8, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
> >> At the moment is it 7 degrees C and will get up to 16 degrees today. While you can easily dress for those temperatures on the flats, descending in those temperatures most definitely isn't a great deal of fun. Even though this is well above freezing I have had many times riding into what should be perfectly dry areas that appear to be dry and yet have a layer of glare ice. This inclines one to ride on routes that are more directly exposed to the sunlight. None of my favorite climbing routes are this way. So I will do yet another flat route today.
> >
> > Dude, this is the US of A. Speak Fahrenheit. 16C is 60F, which is balmy.. 7C is 44F, which is tights weather. Neither is brutal, even descending. It's East Bay not SF. To refresh: https://i.pinimg.com/originals/60/fe/5c/60fe5c2cbca49d67244deaa838219fe7.jpg
> >
> > Tip for dressing: take off jacket so you don't sweat to death on the climb. Put jacket back on for descent. Or you could always ride the flats, that's O.K.
> >
> > I just got a text from my son who is about to leave on a "big" ride with his Specialized cohorts in SLC, which means like a billion feet of climbing. I'll have to lie about my own ride, "son, that's great, but I did 100 miles and 40,000 feet of climbing!" That is the beauty of not being on Strava. And its not a lie. I just round-up to the nearest 100 miles and 40,000 feet, so even a trip to the grocery store is 100 miles and 40,000 feet. My mileage for the year is like 20,000 miles -- even with a broken leg.
> >
> > -- Jay Beattie.
> >
> >
> >
> heh heh.
> It was a very warm for November 28F this morning and warmed
> up quickly. Which sounds brutal as " minus 3C", despite not
> being cool at all, given the calendar.
The beauty of the centigrade system is that everyone knows that it is cold when water freezes and hot when it boils So you can tell that it is a day in the desert at 50C.

On 11/7/2021 4:56 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
> On Sunday, November 7, 2021 at 10:06:49 AM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote:
>> On 11/7/2021 10:10 AM, jbeattie wrote:
>>> On Sunday, November 7, 2021 at 7:32:13 AM UTC-8, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
>>>> At the moment is it 7 degrees C and will get up to 16 degrees today. While you can easily dress for those temperatures on the flats, descending in those temperatures most definitely isn't a great deal of fun. Even though this is well above freezing I have had many times riding into what should be perfectly dry areas that appear to be dry and yet have a layer of glare ice. This inclines one to ride on routes that are more directly exposed to the sunlight. None of my favorite climbing routes are this way. So I will do yet another flat route today.
>>>
>>> Dude, this is the US of A. Speak Fahrenheit. 16C is 60F, which is balmy. 7C is 44F, which is tights weather. Neither is brutal, even descending. It's East Bay not SF. To refresh: https://i.pinimg.com/originals/60/fe/5c/60fe5c2cbca49d67244deaa838219fe7.jpg
>>>
>>> Tip for dressing: take off jacket so you don't sweat to death on the climb. Put jacket back on for descent. Or you could always ride the flats, that's O.K.
>>>
>>> I just got a text from my son who is about to leave on a "big" ride with his Specialized cohorts in SLC, which means like a billion feet of climbing. I'll have to lie about my own ride, "son, that's great, but I did 100 miles and 40,000 feet of climbing!" That is the beauty of not being on Strava. And its not a lie. I just round-up to the nearest 100 miles and 40,000 feet, so even a trip to the grocery store is 100 miles and 40,000 feet. My mileage for the year is like 20,000 miles -- even with a broken leg.
>>>
>>> -- Jay Beattie.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>> heh heh.
>> It was a very warm for November 28F this morning and warmed
>> up quickly. Which sounds brutal as " minus 3C", despite not
>> being cool at all, given the calendar.
> The beauty of the centigrade system is that everyone knows that it is cold when water freezes and hot when it boils So you can tell that it is a day in the desert at 50C.
>

For cycling, it's not cold when water freezes. One may
easily dress for that temperature and ride comfortably.

It's cold when exposed flesh freezes during a ride. There's
a point at which any one of us has just met his/her limit.
Mine may be lower than yours.

--
Andrew Muzi
<www.yellowjersey.org/>
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On Sunday, November 7, 2021 at 3:52:49 PM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote:
> On 11/7/2021 4:56 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
> > On Sunday, November 7, 2021 at 10:06:49 AM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote:
> >> On 11/7/2021 10:10 AM, jbeattie wrote:
> >>> On Sunday, November 7, 2021 at 7:32:13 AM UTC-8, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
> >>>> At the moment is it 7 degrees C and will get up to 16 degrees today. While you can easily dress for those temperatures on the flats, descending in those temperatures most definitely isn't a great deal of fun. Even though this is well above freezing I have had many times riding into what should be perfectly dry areas that appear to be dry and yet have a layer of glare ice. This inclines one to ride on routes that are more directly exposed to the sunlight. None of my favorite climbing routes are this way. So I will do yet another flat route today.
> >>>
> >>> Dude, this is the US of A. Speak Fahrenheit. 16C is 60F, which is balmy. 7C is 44F, which is tights weather. Neither is brutal, even descending. It's East Bay not SF. To refresh: https://i.pinimg.com/originals/60/fe/5c/60fe5c2cbca49d67244deaa838219fe7.jpg
> >>>
> >>> Tip for dressing: take off jacket so you don't sweat to death on the climb. Put jacket back on for descent. Or you could always ride the flats, that's O.K.
> >>>
> >>> I just got a text from my son who is about to leave on a "big" ride with his Specialized cohorts in SLC, which means like a billion feet of climbing. I'll have to lie about my own ride, "son, that's great, but I did 100 miles and 40,000 feet of climbing!" That is the beauty of not being on Strava. And its not a lie. I just round-up to the nearest 100 miles and 40,000 feet, so even a trip to the grocery store is 100 miles and 40,000 feet. My mileage for the year is like 20,000 miles -- even with a broken leg.
> >>>
> >>> -- Jay Beattie.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >> heh heh.
> >> It was a very warm for November 28F this morning and warmed
> >> up quickly. Which sounds brutal as " minus 3C", despite not
> >> being cool at all, given the calendar.
> > The beauty of the centigrade system is that everyone knows that it is cold when water freezes and hot when it boils So you can tell that it is a day in the desert at 50C.
> >
> For cycling, it's not cold when water freezes. One may
> easily dress for that temperature and ride comfortably.
>
> It's cold when exposed flesh freezes during a ride. There's
> a point at which any one of us has just met his/her limit.
> Mine may be lower than yours.

To me, it is not important that it is cold enough to freeze water -- but it is important to me if there is frozen water, and how the water froze. I'm fine on fresh snow, which really provides pretty good traction. Ice is a whole other thing. I have ridden on a lot of ice because I didn't want to feel like a dope taking the car to work and then finding that the ice has all melted a mile down the road after I lost some elevation. So I go squirming down the road out of my neighborhood, waiting for the ice to go away and it doesn't, and then I end up on a busy road, fishtailing my way to work wondering what the f*** I was thinking. I 'm not going to do that this year. I'll just drive and feel like a dope. I don't think I've ridden below 15F and certainly never sub-zero. Maybe if it were super dry and sunny but really cold, I'd give it a whirl, but those conditions do not exist here. We don't have frozen lakes for ice-biking, and any time snow hangs around for a long time, it turns into pocked, unrideable cement. I'm in the car with snow tires.

BTW, people in Portland don't know how to drive in the snow, which is kind of mind-boggling to me because everybody seems to be driving up Mt. Hood during ski season, so somebody has to be used to driving in snow. Anyway, you can get these miniscule snow-falls, and the warning goes out -- and everybody leaves for home and creates a giant traffic jam, like a you-can-walk-home-faster-than-driving traffic jam. That's when I just ride by, making nice little lines in the fresh-fallen snow. Later suckers. I bet those days are over with COVID work from home, but maybe not.

-- Jay Beattie.

On 11/7/2021 6:23 PM, jbeattie wrote:
> On Sunday, November 7, 2021 at 3:52:49 PM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote:
>> On 11/7/2021 4:56 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
>>> On Sunday, November 7, 2021 at 10:06:49 AM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote:
>>>> On 11/7/2021 10:10 AM, jbeattie wrote:
>>>>> On Sunday, November 7, 2021 at 7:32:13 AM UTC-8, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
>>>>>> At the moment is it 7 degrees C and will get up to 16 degrees today. While you can easily dress for those temperatures on the flats, descending in those temperatures most definitely isn't a great deal of fun. Even though this is well above freezing I have had many times riding into what should be perfectly dry areas that appear to be dry and yet have a layer of glare ice. This inclines one to ride on routes that are more directly exposed to the sunlight. None of my favorite climbing routes are this way. So I will do yet another flat route today.
>>>>>
>>>>> Dude, this is the US of A. Speak Fahrenheit. 16C is 60F, which is balmy. 7C is 44F, which is tights weather. Neither is brutal, even descending. It's East Bay not SF. To refresh: https://i.pinimg.com/originals/60/fe/5c/60fe5c2cbca49d67244deaa838219fe7.jpg
>>>>>
>>>>> Tip for dressing: take off jacket so you don't sweat to death on the climb. Put jacket back on for descent. Or you could always ride the flats, that's O.K.
>>>>>
>>>>> I just got a text from my son who is about to leave on a "big" ride with his Specialized cohorts in SLC, which means like a billion feet of climbing. I'll have to lie about my own ride, "son, that's great, but I did 100 miles and 40,000 feet of climbing!" That is the beauty of not being on Strava. And its not a lie. I just round-up to the nearest 100 miles and 40,000 feet, so even a trip to the grocery store is 100 miles and 40,000 feet. My mileage for the year is like 20,000 miles -- even with a broken leg.
>>>>>
>>>>> -- Jay Beattie.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> heh heh.
>>>> It was a very warm for November 28F this morning and warmed
>>>> up quickly. Which sounds brutal as " minus 3C", despite not
>>>> being cool at all, given the calendar.
>>> The beauty of the centigrade system is that everyone knows that it is cold when water freezes and hot when it boils So you can tell that it is a day in the desert at 50C.
>>>
>> For cycling, it's not cold when water freezes. One may
>> easily dress for that temperature and ride comfortably.
>>
>> It's cold when exposed flesh freezes during a ride. There's
>> a point at which any one of us has just met his/her limit.
>> Mine may be lower than yours.
>
> To me, it is not important that it is cold enough to freeze water -- but it is important to me if there is frozen water, and how the water froze. I'm fine on fresh snow, which really provides pretty good traction. Ice is a whole other thing. I have ridden on a lot of ice because I didn't want to feel like a dope taking the car to work and then finding that the ice has all melted a mile down the road after I lost some elevation. So I go squirming down the road out of my neighborhood, waiting for the ice to go away and it doesn't, and then I end up on a busy road, fishtailing my way to work wondering what the f*** I was thinking. I 'm not going to do that this year. I'll just drive and feel like a dope. I don't think I've ridden below 15F and certainly never sub-zero. Maybe if it were super dry and sunny but really cold, I'd give it a whirl, but those conditions do not exist here. We don't have frozen lakes for ice-biking, and any time snow hangs around for a long time, it
turns into pocked, unrideable cement. I'm in the car with snow tires.
>
> BTW, people in Portland don't know how to drive in the snow, which is kind of mind-boggling to me because everybody seems to be driving up Mt. Hood during ski season, so somebody has to be used to driving in snow. Anyway, you can get these miniscule snow-falls, and the warning goes out -- and everybody leaves for home and creates a giant traffic jam, like a you-can-walk-home-faster-than-driving traffic jam. That's when I just ride by, making nice little lines in the fresh-fallen snow. Later suckers. I bet those days are over with COVID work from home, but maybe not.
>
> -- Jay Beattie.
>

Don't feel alone. People in Wisconsin can't drive in snow
either. It just takes one stop-on-merge idiot or some
schmuck trying to find tire traction limits in traffic to
make a pileup.

And I am with you about ice or slushy wet snow. When beer
trucks are sliding sideways across the curbs it's time to
get off the bike. It's just a dozen days per year usually.

Still, moderately cold[1] is generally very bikeable when
properly dressed[2]

[1] fill in your own number here
[2]Normal road bike shoes with clipless are miserable in
cold. Never found a better solution than toeclips + warm sox
in leather shoes with overshoes to keep out the wind and wet.

--
Andrew Muzi
<www.yellowjersey.org/>
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
> On 11/7/2021 4:56 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
>> On Sunday, November 7, 2021 at 10:06:49 AM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote:
>>> On 11/7/2021 10:10 AM, jbeattie wrote:
>>>> On Sunday, November 7, 2021 at 7:32:13 AM UTC-8, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
>>>>> At the moment is it 7 degrees C and will get up to 16 degrees today.
>>>>> While you can easily dress for those temperatures on the flats,
>>>>> descending in those temperatures most definitely isn't a great deal
>>>>> of fun. Even though this is well above freezing I have had many times
>>>>> riding into what should be perfectly dry areas that appear to be dry
>>>>> and yet have a layer of glare ice. This inclines one to ride on
>>>>> routes that are more directly exposed to the sunlight. None of my
>>>>> favorite climbing routes are this way. So I will do yet another flat route today.
>>>>
>>>> Dude, this is the US of A. Speak Fahrenheit. 16C is 60F, which is
>>>> balmy. 7C is 44F, which is tights weather. Neither is brutal, even
>>>> descending. It's East Bay not SF. To refresh:
>>>> https://i.pinimg.com/originals/60/fe/5c/60fe5c2cbca49d67244deaa838219fe7.jpg
>>>>
>>>> Tip for dressing: take off jacket so you don't sweat to death on the
>>>> climb. Put jacket back on for descent. Or you could always ride the flats, that's O.K.
>>>>
>>>> I just got a text from my son who is about to leave on a "big" ride
>>>> with his Specialized cohorts in SLC, which means like a billion feet
>>>> of climbing. I'll have to lie about my own ride, "son, that's great,
>>>> but I did 100 miles and 40,000 feet of climbing!" That is the beauty
>>>> of not being on Strava. And its not a lie. I just round-up to the
>>>> nearest 100 miles and 40,000 feet, so even a trip to the grocery store
>>>> is 100 miles and 40,000 feet. My mileage for the year is like 20,000
>>>> miles -- even with a broken leg.
>>>>
>>>> -- Jay Beattie.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>> heh heh.
>>> It was a very warm for November 28F this morning and warmed
>>> up quickly. Which sounds brutal as " minus 3C", despite not
>>> being cool at all, given the calendar.
>> The beauty of the centigrade system is that everyone knows that it is
>> cold when water freezes and hot when it boils So you can tell that it is
>> a day in the desert at 50C.
>>
>
> For cycling, it's not cold when water freezes. One may
> easily dress for that temperature and ride comfortably.
>
> It's cold when exposed flesh freezes during a ride. There's
> a point at which any one of us has just met his/her limit.
> Mine may be lower than yours.
>
It’s less the body temperature more is there going to be pockets of
ice/frost on my commute?

It’s generally not a issue on the gravel/MTB as well off road mostly and so
ice is much less of a issue.

But ice even in warm london can be a real hazard.

Roger Merriman.

On Sunday, November 7, 2021 at 7:56:50 PM UTC-5, AMuzi wrote:

> [2]Normal road bike shoes with clipless are miserable in
> cold. Never found a better solution than toeclips + warm sox
> in leather shoes with overshoes to keep out the wind and wet.
> --
> Andrew Muzi
> <www.yellowjersey.org/>
> Open every day since 1 April, 1971

You found toe clips big enough? That's my solution too but my current set are too cramped.

Am 07.11.2021 um 22:56 schrieb Frank Krygowski:
> On 11/7/2021 11:10 AM, jbeattie wrote:
>> On Sunday, November 7, 2021 at 7:32:13 AM UTC-8, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
>>> At the moment is it 7 degrees C and will get up to 16 degrees today.
>>> While you can easily dress for those temperatures on the flats,
>>> descending in those temperatures most definitely isn't a great deal
>>> of fun. Even though this is well above freezing I have had many times
>>> riding into what should be perfectly dry areas that appear to be dry
>>> and yet have a layer of glare ice. This inclines one to ride on
>>> routes that are more directly exposed to the sunlight. None of my
>>> favorite climbing routes are this way. So I will do yet another flat
>>> route today.
>>
>> Dude, this is the US of A.  Speak Fahrenheit.   16C is 60F, which is
>> balmy.  7C is 44F, which is tights weather.   Neither is brutal, even
>> descending.
>
> I agree with Jay, and think 60F is perfect. Although people differ. My
> wife's comfort zone is from 70F to 72F. (That's 21C to 22C). Outside of
> that I'll probably hear some minor complaints. But I understand
> Raynaud's Syndrome can be hell.

I guess the "real" Winsoncin/Minnesotan comparisons are:

40 below is 40 below, 11F is -11C.

On 11/8/2021 7:17 AM, Tim R wrote:
> On Sunday, November 7, 2021 at 7:56:50 PM UTC-5, AMuzi wrote:
>
>> [2]Normal road bike shoes with clipless are miserable in
>> cold. Never found a better solution than toeclips + warm sox
>> in leather shoes with overshoes to keep out the wind and wet.

>
> You found toe clips big enough? That's my solution too but my current set are too cramped.
>

Large steel toeclips for my size 42 feet with overshoes but
for larger sizes the Zéfal XL is both longer and taller. BTW
modern toestraps are significantly longer than classic which
is also nice for larger sizes.

--
Andrew Muzi
<www.yellowjersey.org/>
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On Sunday, November 7, 2021 at 3:52:49 PM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote:
> On 11/7/2021 4:56 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
> > On Sunday, November 7, 2021 at 10:06:49 AM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote:
> >> On 11/7/2021 10:10 AM, jbeattie wrote:
> >>> On Sunday, November 7, 2021 at 7:32:13 AM UTC-8, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
> >>>> At the moment is it 7 degrees C and will get up to 16 degrees today. While you can easily dress for those temperatures on the flats, descending in those temperatures most definitely isn't a great deal of fun. Even though this is well above freezing I have had many times riding into what should be perfectly dry areas that appear to be dry and yet have a layer of glare ice. This inclines one to ride on routes that are more directly exposed to the sunlight. None of my favorite climbing routes are this way. So I will do yet another flat route today.
> >>>
> >>> Dude, this is the US of A. Speak Fahrenheit. 16C is 60F, which is balmy. 7C is 44F, which is tights weather. Neither is brutal, even descending. It's East Bay not SF. To refresh: https://i.pinimg.com/originals/60/fe/5c/60fe5c2cbca49d67244deaa838219fe7.jpg
> >>>
> >>> Tip for dressing: take off jacket so you don't sweat to death on the climb. Put jacket back on for descent. Or you could always ride the flats, that's O.K.
> >>>
> >>> I just got a text from my son who is about to leave on a "big" ride with his Specialized cohorts in SLC, which means like a billion feet of climbing. I'll have to lie about my own ride, "son, that's great, but I did 100 miles and 40,000 feet of climbing!" That is the beauty of not being on Strava. And its not a lie. I just round-up to the nearest 100 miles and 40,000 feet, so even a trip to the grocery store is 100 miles and 40,000 feet. My mileage for the year is like 20,000 miles -- even with a broken leg.
> >>>
> >>> -- Jay Beattie.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >> heh heh.
> >> It was a very warm for November 28F this morning and warmed
> >> up quickly. Which sounds brutal as " minus 3C", despite not
> >> being cool at all, given the calendar.
> > The beauty of the centigrade system is that everyone knows that it is cold when water freezes and hot when it boils So you can tell that it is a day in the desert at 50C.
> >
> For cycling, it's not cold when water freezes. One may
> easily dress for that temperature and ride comfortably.
>
> It's cold when exposed flesh freezes during a ride. There's
> a point at which any one of us has just met his/her limit.
> Mine may be lower than yours.

When you dress warmly, ride hard to keep your body temperature up and then after the ride have to stand under the shower for 15 minutes to bring your body temperature up to normal, it is cold. And after any ride at 0C that is what happens.

AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
> On 11/7/2021 4:07 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>> On 11/7/2021 12:16 PM, Ralph Barone wrote:
>>> jbeattie <jbeattie57@msn.com> wrote:
>>>> On Sunday, November 7, 2021 at 7:32:13 AM UTC-8,
>>>> cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
>>>>> At the moment is it 7 degrees C and will get up to 16
>>>>> degrees today.
>>>>
>>>> Dude, this is the US of A. Speak Fahrenheit. 16C is
>>>> 60F, which is
>>>> balmy. 7C is 44F, which is tights weather. Neither is
>>>> brutal, even
>>>> descending. It's East Bay not SF. To refresh:
>>>> https://i.pinimg.com/originals/60/fe/5c/60fe5c2cbca49d67244deaa838219fe7.jpg
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> Dude, most of the world speaks Celsius.
>>
>> I'm a big fan of the SI system, but not for temperatures
>> regarding human comfort. Fahrenheit works far better.
>>
>> By coincidence, this was the topic in the "Ask Marilyn"
>> column in today's newspaper. Marilyn (supposedly owner of
>> the highest IQ ever recorded) agreed.
>>
>> As she and others have said, zero Fahrenheit is the lowest
>> temperature most Americans would ever put up with outdoors,
>> and 100 Fahrenheit is the highest. It wasn't designed that
>> way, but the scale just happens to match the human comfort
>> range.
>>
>> As to Celsius, I remember a few approximate landmarks: Zero
>> is freezing, 10C is about 50F, 16C flips around to 61F, 20 C
>> is 68F (commonly used in engineering), 28C flips to 82F, and
>> 32 would be freezing on the Fahrenheit scale but its Celsius
>> version is a really hot 90F instead. In between, I
>> approximate with one degree C = ~ two degrees F.
>>
>>
>>
>
> It's mere familiarity & custom (see also jeans with pre-slit
> knees, pocket protectors, handlebar bags etc).
>
> Sorry to disagree with Ms dos Savant and you but
> freezing/boiling points of water, average human body, any
> other universal points are the same thing, merely expressed
> on various scales. You might just as well argue Kelvin as
> Fahrenheit.
>
> "Oh, sweetie it's a perfect 293K this morning, let's go for
> a ride!".
>

If you want a scale that’s actually awkward to use, somebody once proposed
measuring temperature on a logarithmic scale in decibels, with zero at
0.001K. 0 dBmK is pretty much absolute zero, room temperature is 54.7
dBmK, water boils at 55.7 dBmK, and the surface of the sun is 67.6 dBmK.

On Monday, November 8, 2021 at 7:18:31 AM UTC-8, Ralph Barone wrote:
> AMuzi <a...@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
> > On 11/7/2021 4:07 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> >> On 11/7/2021 12:16 PM, Ralph Barone wrote:
> >>> jbeattie <jbeat...@msn.com> wrote:
> >>>> On Sunday, November 7, 2021 at 7:32:13 AM UTC-8,
> >>>> cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
> >>>>> At the moment is it 7 degrees C and will get up to 16
> >>>>> degrees today.
> >>>>
> >>>> Dude, this is the US of A. Speak Fahrenheit. 16C is
> >>>> 60F, which is
> >>>> balmy. 7C is 44F, which is tights weather. Neither is
> >>>> brutal, even
> >>>> descending. It's East Bay not SF. To refresh:
> >>>> https://i.pinimg.com/originals/60/fe/5c/60fe5c2cbca49d67244deaa838219fe7.jpg
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>> Dude, most of the world speaks Celsius.
> >>
> >> I'm a big fan of the SI system, but not for temperatures
> >> regarding human comfort. Fahrenheit works far better.
> >>
> >> By coincidence, this was the topic in the "Ask Marilyn"
> >> column in today's newspaper. Marilyn (supposedly owner of
> >> the highest IQ ever recorded) agreed.
> >>
> >> As she and others have said, zero Fahrenheit is the lowest
> >> temperature most Americans would ever put up with outdoors,
> >> and 100 Fahrenheit is the highest. It wasn't designed that
> >> way, but the scale just happens to match the human comfort
> >> range.
> >>
> >> As to Celsius, I remember a few approximate landmarks: Zero
> >> is freezing, 10C is about 50F, 16C flips around to 61F, 20 C
> >> is 68F (commonly used in engineering), 28C flips to 82F, and
> >> 32 would be freezing on the Fahrenheit scale but its Celsius
> >> version is a really hot 90F instead. In between, I
> >> approximate with one degree C = ~ two degrees F.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> > It's mere familiarity & custom (see also jeans with pre-slit
> > knees, pocket protectors, handlebar bags etc).
> >
> > Sorry to disagree with Ms dos Savant and you but
> > freezing/boiling points of water, average human body, any
> > other universal points are the same thing, merely expressed
> > on various scales. You might just as well argue Kelvin as
> > Fahrenheit.
> >
> > "Oh, sweetie it's a perfect 293K this morning, let's go for
> > a ride!".
> >
> If you want a scale that’s actually awkward to use, somebody once proposed
> measuring temperature on a logarithmic scale in decibels, with zero at
> 0.001K. 0 dBmK is pretty much absolute zero, room temperature is 54.7
> dBmK, water boils at 55.7 dBmK, and the surface of the sun is 67.6 dBmK.
And some people suggest that disk brakes make you faster. Both make the same amount of sense.

On 11/7/2021 5:50 PM, AMuzi wrote:
> On 11/7/2021 4:07 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>>
>> As she and others have said, zero Fahrenheit is the lowest
>> temperature most Americans would ever put up with outdoors,
>> and 100 Fahrenheit is the highest. It wasn't designed that
>> way, but the scale just happens to match the human comfort
>> range.
>>
>
> It's mere familiarity & custom (see also jeans with pre-slit knees,
> pocket protectors, handlebar bags etc).
>
> Sorry to disagree with Ms dos Savant and you but freezing/boiling points
> of water, average human body, any other universal points are the same
> thing, merely expressed on various scales. You might just as well argue
> Kelvin as Fahrenheit.

I think a good analogy might be languages. If a person moves to an
unfamiliar country, that person will eventually learn the language well
enough to get by, no matter what the language is.

But few people deny that some languages are much easier to learn than
others.

I suspect that Fahrenheit is much easier to "learn," when used to
describe human comfort.

--
- Frank Krygowski

On 11/8/2021 9:21 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
> On Monday, November 8, 2021 at 7:18:31 AM UTC-8, Ralph Barone wrote:
>> AMuzi <a...@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
>>> On 11/7/2021 4:07 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>>>> On 11/7/2021 12:16 PM, Ralph Barone wrote:
>>>>> jbeattie <jbeat...@msn.com> wrote:
>>>>>> On Sunday, November 7, 2021 at 7:32:13 AM UTC-8,
>>>>>> cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
>>>>>>> At the moment is it 7 degrees C and will get up to 16
>>>>>>> degrees today.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Dude, this is the US of A. Speak Fahrenheit. 16C is
>>>>>> 60F, which is
>>>>>> balmy. 7C is 44F, which is tights weather. Neither is
>>>>>> brutal, even
>>>>>> descending. It's East Bay not SF. To refresh:
>>>>>> https://i.pinimg.com/originals/60/fe/5c/60fe5c2cbca49d67244deaa838219fe7.jpg
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Dude, most of the world speaks Celsius.
>>>>
>>>> I'm a big fan of the SI system, but not for temperatures
>>>> regarding human comfort. Fahrenheit works far better.
>>>>
>>>> By coincidence, this was the topic in the "Ask Marilyn"
>>>> column in today's newspaper. Marilyn (supposedly owner of
>>>> the highest IQ ever recorded) agreed.
>>>>
>>>> As she and others have said, zero Fahrenheit is the lowest
>>>> temperature most Americans would ever put up with outdoors,
>>>> and 100 Fahrenheit is the highest. It wasn't designed that
>>>> way, but the scale just happens to match the human comfort
>>>> range.
>>>>
>>>> As to Celsius, I remember a few approximate landmarks: Zero
>>>> is freezing, 10C is about 50F, 16C flips around to 61F, 20 C
>>>> is 68F (commonly used in engineering), 28C flips to 82F, and
>>>> 32 would be freezing on the Fahrenheit scale but its Celsius
>>>> version is a really hot 90F instead. In between, I
>>>> approximate with one degree C = ~ two degrees F.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> It's mere familiarity & custom (see also jeans with pre-slit
>>> knees, pocket protectors, handlebar bags etc).
>>>
>>> Sorry to disagree with Ms dos Savant and you but
>>> freezing/boiling points of water, average human body, any
>>> other universal points are the same thing, merely expressed
>>> on various scales. You might just as well argue Kelvin as
>>> Fahrenheit.
>>>
>>> "Oh, sweetie it's a perfect 293K this morning, let's go for
>>> a ride!".
>>>
>> If you want a scale that’s actually awkward to use, somebody once proposed
>> measuring temperature on a logarithmic scale in decibels, with zero at
>> 0.001K. 0 dBmK is pretty much absolute zero, room temperature is 54.7
>> dBmK, water boils at 55.7 dBmK, and the surface of the sun is 67.6 dBmK.
> And some people suggest that disk brakes make you faster. Both make the same amount of sense.
>

For autos, discs are faster because one may brake later and
more positively/effectively than with drums. I assume the
same may be true for bicycles in some situations but
probably with less significance.

--
Andrew Muzi
<www.yellowjersey.org/>
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On 11/8/2021 9:42 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> On 11/7/2021 5:50 PM, AMuzi wrote:
>> On 11/7/2021 4:07 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>>>
>>> As she and others have said, zero Fahrenheit is the lowest
>>> temperature most Americans would ever put up with outdoors,
>>> and 100 Fahrenheit is the highest. It wasn't designed that
>>> way, but the scale just happens to match the human comfort
>>> range.
>>>
>>
>> It's mere familiarity & custom (see also jeans with
>> pre-slit knees, pocket protectors, handlebar bags etc).
>>
>> Sorry to disagree with Ms dos Savant and you but
>> freezing/boiling points of water, average human body, any
>> other universal points are the same thing, merely
>> expressed on various scales. You might just as well argue
>> Kelvin as Fahrenheit.
>
> I think a good analogy might be languages. If a person moves
> to an unfamiliar country, that person will eventually learn
> the language well enough to get by, no matter what the
> language is.
>
> But few people deny that some languages are much easier to
> learn than others.
>
> I suspect that Fahrenheit is much easier to "learn," when
> used to describe human comfort.
>
>

I'll watch for our Euro contributors' comments on that.

--
Andrew Muzi
<www.yellowjersey.org/>
Open every day since 1 April, 1971