Years and years ago, Heidi Hopkins (a Berkeley, CA racer) told me to use a 67, but she was young, in great shape and had a favorable BMI. Those facts are inapplicable to the instant case, as the judges and J.B. would say. What size gear would you treacherous oldsters use for hilly fixed-gear work?

On Wednesday, November 10, 2021 at 6:21:46 AM UTC-8, William Crowell wrote:
> Years and years ago, Heidi Hopkins (a Berkeley, CA racer) told me to use a 67, but she was young, in great shape and had a favorable BMI. Those facts are inapplicable to the instant case, as the judges and J.B. would say. What size gear would you treacherous oldsters use for hilly fixed-gear work?

65-70" was the standard Rx. Find a gear in that range on your road bike and then go ride around and see what you think. IMO, the hard part is descending and not climbing. If you pick a gear that is comfortable climbing, it may beat you to death on the downhill -- unless you're that "smooth at 150RPM" guy, which I was not. Maybe start with a SS or a flip-flop, which means use a brake -- which is required by law anyway.

-- Jay Beattie.

On Wednesday, November 10, 2021 at 6:45:43 AM UTC-8, jbeattie wrote:
> On Wednesday, November 10, 2021 at 6:21:46 AM UTC-8, William Crowell wrote:
> > Years and years ago, Heidi Hopkins (a Berkeley, CA racer) told me to use a 67, but she was young, in great shape and had a favorable BMI. Those facts are inapplicable to the instant case, as the judges and J.B. would say. What size gear would you treacherous oldsters use for hilly fixed-gear work?
> 65-70" was the standard Rx. Find a gear in that range on your road bike and then go ride around and see what you think. IMO, the hard part is descending and not climbing. If you pick a gear that is comfortable climbing, it may beat you to death on the downhill -- unless you're that "smooth at 150RPM" guy, which I was not. Maybe start with a SS or a flip-flop, which means use a brake -- which is required by law anyway.
>
> -- Jay Beattie.
Yeah, the downhills are a drag, all right.

On 11/10/2021 8:21 AM, William Crowell wrote:
> Years and years ago, Heidi Hopkins (a Berkeley, CA racer) told me to use a 67, but she was young, in great shape and had a favorable BMI. Those facts are inapplicable to the instant case, as the judges and J.B. would say. What size gear would you treacherous oldsters use for hilly fixed-gear work?
>

I'm not you, of course. I'm currently on 44x20 = 60 inches

--
Andrew Muzi
<www.yellowjersey.org/>
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On Wednesday, November 10, 2021 at 9:21:46 AM UTC-5, William Crowell wrote:
> Years and years ago, Heidi Hopkins (a Berkeley, CA racer) told me to use a 67, but she was young, in great shape and had a favorable BMI. Those facts are inapplicable to the instant case, as the judges and J.B. would say. What size gear would you treacherous oldsters use for hilly fixed-gear work?

First off, I have to issue the caveat that I have front and rear brakes on my fixed-gear bike. I'm kind a wimp that way.
It's going to be tough to answer that question without knowing your riding style. Are you a generally a spinner (steady cadence ~90-100) or a masher (steady cadence ~85 or lower)?

What do you mean when you say "hilly"? short punchy or long sustained?

In general cycling terms, my area is considered to be flat/rolling (northeastern massachusetts). The biggest hill within 10 miles is a measly 300' over 1.5 miles (cat 4 according to strava). My fixed-gear non-competition riding will float between a 39x16 (~66") to a 42x14 (~81") depending on the time of year and the route. A 39x18 (~58") is pretty common for people on SS or fixed gears though.

I'm fond of riding the local TT in a 53x16 (~89"), and for some indoor events on a computrainer I'll ride a 53x14 (~102"). I'm a spinner and tend to keep my average cadence well over 90, but I'm also considered a climber, so I've lugged the 39x16 over that cat 4 climb many times. As you mentioned, the downhills are an issue - way more than climbing. That's one reason I run 2 brakes. Unless you can sustain a spin_WITH CONTROL_ over say 130, do yourself a favor and run brakes. Braking with your legs can only get you so far on a long downhill, and it's smart to have brakes if you're riding where there is any possibility of traffic.

FWIW - I am one of the "smooth at 150 guys" JB mentioned. There is a local shop team that still has roller races during the winter. They have a 100" gear restriction (but they allow a 52x14). It's a 1Km flying start on unloaded rollers. Winning times are under 30 seconds, which means being able to sustain ~180 RPM for that 30 seconds. My PR is 34 seconds,which is starting out the spin at around 175 and finishing at around 170.

On Wednesday, November 10, 2021 at 8:21:46 AM UTC-6, William Crowell wrote:
> Years and years ago, Heidi Hopkins (a Berkeley, CA racer) told me to use a 67, but she was young, in great shape and had a favorable BMI. Those facts are inapplicable to the instant case, as the judges and J.B. would say. What size gear would you treacherous oldsters use for hilly fixed-gear work?

67 gear inches is about a 53x21 or 42x17 or 39x15. 50x20 and 34x13 also. Assuming you own a ten speed bike with some of these chainring and cog sizes, go shift the bike into that gear and go ride and never shift during the ride.

I have two single speed bikes. Both on the freewheel side of the double sided hub. One side fixed, one side freewheel. After using the fixed side and not being able to ever coast, I decided I liked to coast. I cannot recall exactly what gearing I have on the bikes. But I am pretty sure both my bikes are geared higher than your 67 gear inches. I'm using 53 or 52 chainrings and I think 18 tooth cogs. I'm sure of the chainring sizes but kind of sort of guessing on the cog size. Mid/upper 70s for gear inches. Great gear for flat riding and mild hills. Might have to stand up for slightly steeper hills.

On Wed, 10 Nov 2021 10:08:35 -0600,
AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
> On 11/10/2021 8:21 AM, William Crowell wrote:
> > Years and years ago, Heidi Hopkins (a Berkeley, CA racer) told
> > me to use a 67, but she was young, in great shape and had a
> > favorable BMI. Those facts are inapplicable to the instant
> > case, as the judges and J.B. would say. What size gear would
> > you treacherous oldsters use for hilly fixed-gear work?
>
> I'm not you, of course. I'm currently on 44x20 = 60 inches

Nor am I either of you. I've run a 46x17 (71.4 gear inches)
forever, but I don't do big hills either. Like Russell, I stand
to climb when things are on the steeper side. Like Jay,
descending is tough for me--and one reason I have a front brake.

--
Ted Heise <theise@panix.com> West Lafayette, IN, USA

On 11/10/21 6:21 AM, William Crowell wrote:
> Years and years ago, Heidi Hopkins (a Berkeley, CA racer) told me to use a 67, but she was young, in great shape and had a favorable BMI. Those facts are inapplicable to the instant case, as the judges and J.B. would say. What size gear would you treacherous oldsters use for hilly fixed-gear work?
>

Just curious, why would you want a fixed-gear bike in our rather hilly
area? For us older guys that sounds like a recipe for ruining the knee
joints. And on the downhill without a brake you'd be one chain-throw
away from a nasty crash.

To me all this fixed gear business sounds like masochism :-)

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

On Thursday, November 11, 2021 at 2:56:57 PM UTC-8, Joerg wrote:
> On 11/10/21 6:21 AM, William Crowell wrote:
> > Years and years ago, Heidi Hopkins (a Berkeley, CA racer) told me to use a 67, but she was young, in great shape and had a favorable BMI. Those facts are inapplicable to the instant case, as the judges and J.B. would say. What size gear would you treacherous oldsters use for hilly fixed-gear work?
> >
> Just curious, why would you want a fixed-gear bike in our rather hilly
> area? For us older guys that sounds like a recipe for ruining the knee
> joints. And on the downhill without a brake you'd be one chain-throw
> away from a nasty crash.
>
> To me all this fixed gear business sounds like masochism :-)
>
> --
> Regards, Joerg
>
> http://www.analogconsultants.com/
Hi, Joerg. I am trying to ride my fixed gear and my unicycle a bit in order to whip myself into better shape. But I'm not really sure if I have sufficient mental discipline!

On Thursday, November 11, 2021 at 2:56:57 PM UTC-8, Joerg wrote:
> On 11/10/21 6:21 AM, William Crowell wrote:
> > Years and years ago, Heidi Hopkins (a Berkeley, CA racer) told me to use a 67, but she was young, in great shape and had a favorable BMI. Those facts are inapplicable to the instant case, as the judges and J.B. would say. What size gear would you treacherous oldsters use for hilly fixed-gear work?
> >
> Just curious, why would you want a fixed-gear bike in our rather hilly
> area? For us older guys that sounds like a recipe for ruining the knee
> joints. And on the downhill without a brake you'd be one chain-throw
> away from a nasty crash.
>
> To me all this fixed gear business sounds like masochism :-)

I have a serious concern for people that ride fixed gears anywhere for any reason. I cannot imagine fighting the weight of a bike both accelerating and decelerating with a gear that would allow you to get anywhere in a reasonable amount of time.

On Friday, November 12, 2021 at 4:58:18 AM UTC-8, William Crowell wrote:
> On Thursday, November 11, 2021 at 2:56:57 PM UTC-8, Joerg wrote:
> > On 11/10/21 6:21 AM, William Crowell wrote:
> > > Years and years ago, Heidi Hopkins (a Berkeley, CA racer) told me to use a 67, but she was young, in great shape and had a favorable BMI. Those facts are inapplicable to the instant case, as the judges and J.B. would say. What size gear would you treacherous oldsters use for hilly fixed-gear work?
> > >
> > Just curious, why would you want a fixed-gear bike in our rather hilly
> > area? For us older guys that sounds like a recipe for ruining the knee
> > joints. And on the downhill without a brake you'd be one chain-throw
> > away from a nasty crash.
> >
> > To me all this fixed gear business sounds like masochism :-)
> >
> > --
> > Regards, Joerg
> >
> > http://www.analogconsultants.com/
> Hi, Joerg. I am trying to ride my fixed gear and my unicycle a bit in order to whip myself into better shape. But I'm not really sure if I have sufficient mental discipline!
Bill, use a geared bike and ride more. I do San Leandro to Oakland, Up Tunnel Road, and back into Oakland and San Leandro via Skyline. Tunnel isn't really hard climbing so you shouldn't have any problems after the first quarter mile and the top quarter mile. If you live in Berkeley you could always turn left on the top onto Grizzly Peak and work your way back. Depending on where you live, you can go almost anywhere in Berkeley that route and not have a really long ride. Doing that three or four times a week would put you back into shape pretty fast.

Tom Kunich <cyclintom@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Thursday, November 11, 2021 at 2:56:57 PM UTC-8, Joerg wrote:
>> On 11/10/21 6:21 AM, William Crowell wrote:
>>> Years and years ago, Heidi Hopkins (a Berkeley, CA racer) told me to
>>> use a 67, but she was young, in great shape and had a favorable BMI.
>>> Those facts are inapplicable to the instant case, as the judges and
>>> J.B. would say. What size gear would you treacherous oldsters use for
>>> hilly fixed-gear work?
>>>
>> Just curious, why would you want a fixed-gear bike in our rather hilly
>> area? For us older guys that sounds like a recipe for ruining the knee
>> joints. And on the downhill without a brake you'd be one chain-throw
>> away from a nasty crash.
>>
>> To me all this fixed gear business sounds like masochism :-)
>
> I have a serious concern for people that ride fixed gears anywhere for
> any reason. I cannot imagine fighting the weight of a bike both
> accelerating and decelerating with a gear that would allow you to get
> anywhere in a reasonable amount of time.
>

I liked the SS bike it was light and fast. I couldn’t get on with fixed, I
missed freewheeling and well cornering at speed being the old MTBer I am,
so while I could ride fixed I didn’t enjoy it.

Must try it in a velodrome one day and see how it feels!

Roger Merriman

On Friday, November 12, 2021 at 1:58:18 PM UTC-8, Roger Merriman wrote:
> Tom Kunich <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > On Thursday, November 11, 2021 at 2:56:57 PM UTC-8, Joerg wrote:
> >> On 11/10/21 6:21 AM, William Crowell wrote:
> >>> Years and years ago, Heidi Hopkins (a Berkeley, CA racer) told me to
> >>> use a 67, but she was young, in great shape and had a favorable BMI.
> >>> Those facts are inapplicable to the instant case, as the judges and
> >>> J.B. would say. What size gear would you treacherous oldsters use for
> >>> hilly fixed-gear work?
> >>>
> >> Just curious, why would you want a fixed-gear bike in our rather hilly
> >> area? For us older guys that sounds like a recipe for ruining the knee
> >> joints. And on the downhill without a brake you'd be one chain-throw
> >> away from a nasty crash.
> >>
> >> To me all this fixed gear business sounds like masochism :-)
> >
> > I have a serious concern for people that ride fixed gears anywhere for
> > any reason. I cannot imagine fighting the weight of a bike both
> > accelerating and decelerating with a gear that would allow you to get
> > anywhere in a reasonable amount of time.
> >
> I liked the SS bike it was light and fast. I couldn’t get on with fixed, I
> missed freewheeling and well cornering at speed being the old MTBer I am,
> so while I could ride fixed I didn’t enjoy it.
>
> Must try it in a velodrome one day and see how it feels!

Fixies work well in a Velodrome because you have a lap to get moving and a lap to stop. For some reason, fixies became popular with bike messengers. Probably because they have almost zero maintenance costs. Replace tires and chains and once in awhile fixy gears.

On Friday, November 12, 2021 at 1:58:18 PM UTC-8, Roger Merriman wrote:
> Tom Kunich <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > On Thursday, November 11, 2021 at 2:56:57 PM UTC-8, Joerg wrote:
> >> On 11/10/21 6:21 AM, William Crowell wrote:
> >>> Years and years ago, Heidi Hopkins (a Berkeley, CA racer) told me to
> >>> use a 67, but she was young, in great shape and had a favorable BMI.
> >>> Those facts are inapplicable to the instant case, as the judges and
> >>> J.B. would say. What size gear would you treacherous oldsters use for
> >>> hilly fixed-gear work?
> >>>
> >> Just curious, why would you want a fixed-gear bike in our rather hilly
> >> area? For us older guys that sounds like a recipe for ruining the knee
> >> joints. And on the downhill without a brake you'd be one chain-throw
> >> away from a nasty crash.
> >>
> >> To me all this fixed gear business sounds like masochism :-)
> >
> > I have a serious concern for people that ride fixed gears anywhere for
> > any reason. I cannot imagine fighting the weight of a bike both
> > accelerating and decelerating with a gear that would allow you to get
> > anywhere in a reasonable amount of time.
> >
> I liked the SS bike it was light and fast. I couldn’t get on with fixed, I
> missed freewheeling and well cornering at speed being the old MTBer I am,
> so while I could ride fixed I didn’t enjoy it.
>
> Must try it in a velodrome one day and see how it feels!

Good point about corners, which are not a problem in a velodrome. We just lost our neighborhood velodrome to development. Alpenrose was one of the steepest banked (43 degrees) permanent track in the US. https://hips.hearstapps.com/hmg-prod.s3.amazonaws.com/images/alpenrose-velodrome-09558-1569889293.jpg?resize=980:* https://pamplinmedia.com/images/artimg/00003582137737.jpg Surface repairs: https://tinyurl.com/yftde5yj

Minimum speed was supposedly 12mph through the turn, otherwise, you fell off the bank. I was racing there one day, and I picked up some glass riding over from my house and flatted at the top of the bank and went sliding down, which was embarrassing. it was a great little track and always open. You could just go over there and ride around on a road bike if you were so inclined, which I would do with my son. Sad comment on development, but its hard running an inner-city dairy with a bunch of free facilities centered on 1950s activities (little league fields, etc.).

-- Jay Beattie.

On 11/12/2021 4:36 PM, jbeattie wrote:
> On Friday, November 12, 2021 at 1:58:18 PM UTC-8, Roger Merriman wrote:
>> Tom Kunich <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> On Thursday, November 11, 2021 at 2:56:57 PM UTC-8, Joerg wrote:
>>>> On 11/10/21 6:21 AM, William Crowell wrote:
>>>>> Years and years ago, Heidi Hopkins (a Berkeley, CA racer) told me to
>>>>> use a 67, but she was young, in great shape and had a favorable BMI.
>>>>> Those facts are inapplicable to the instant case, as the judges and
>>>>> J.B. would say. What size gear would you treacherous oldsters use for
>>>>> hilly fixed-gear work?
>>>>>
>>>> Just curious, why would you want a fixed-gear bike in our rather hilly
>>>> area? For us older guys that sounds like a recipe for ruining the knee
>>>> joints. And on the downhill without a brake you'd be one chain-throw
>>>> away from a nasty crash.
>>>>
>>>> To me all this fixed gear business sounds like masochism :-)
>>>
>>> I have a serious concern for people that ride fixed gears anywhere for
>>> any reason. I cannot imagine fighting the weight of a bike both
>>> accelerating and decelerating with a gear that would allow you to get
>>> anywhere in a reasonable amount of time.
>>>
>> I liked the SS bike it was light and fast. I couldn’t get on with fixed, I
>> missed freewheeling and well cornering at speed being the old MTBer I am,
>> so while I could ride fixed I didn’t enjoy it.
>>
>> Must try it in a velodrome one day and see how it feels!
>
> Good point about corners, which are not a problem in a velodrome. We just lost our neighborhood velodrome to development. Alpenrose was one of the steepest banked (43 degrees) permanent track in the US. https://hips.hearstapps.com/hmg-prod.s3.amazonaws.com/images/alpenrose-velodrome-09558-1569889293.jpg?resize=980:* https://pamplinmedia.com/images/artimg/00003582137737.jpg Surface repairs: https://tinyurl.com/yftde5yj
>
> Minimum speed was supposedly 12mph through the turn, otherwise, you fell off the bank. I was racing there one day, and I picked up some glass riding over from my house and flatted at the top of the bank and went sliding down, which was embarrassing. it was a great little track and always open. You could just go over there and ride around on a road bike if you were so inclined, which I would do with my son. Sad comment on development, but its hard running an inner-city dairy with a bunch of free facilities centered on 1950s activities (little league fields, etc.).

Yes, that's a sad story. Kenosha isn't all that banked but
it's outlasted many others:

https://www.visitkenosha.com/listing/washington-park-velodrome/416/

https://www.kenoshavelodromeracing.com/tuesday-night-racing/

--
Andrew Muzi
<www.yellowjersey.org/>
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

jbeattie <jbeattie57@msn.com> wrote:
> On Friday, November 12, 2021 at 1:58:18 PM UTC-8, Roger Merriman wrote:
>> Tom Kunich <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> On Thursday, November 11, 2021 at 2:56:57 PM UTC-8, Joerg wrote:
>>>> On 11/10/21 6:21 AM, William Crowell wrote:
>>>>> Years and years ago, Heidi Hopkins (a Berkeley, CA racer) told me to
>>>>> use a 67, but she was young, in great shape and had a favorable BMI.
>>>>> Those facts are inapplicable to the instant case, as the judges and
>>>>> J.B. would say. What size gear would you treacherous oldsters use for
>>>>> hilly fixed-gear work?
>>>>>
>>>> Just curious, why would you want a fixed-gear bike in our rather hilly
>>>> area? For us older guys that sounds like a recipe for ruining the knee
>>>> joints. And on the downhill without a brake you'd be one chain-throw
>>>> away from a nasty crash.
>>>>
>>>> To me all this fixed gear business sounds like masochism :-)
>>>
>>> I have a serious concern for people that ride fixed gears anywhere for
>>> any reason. I cannot imagine fighting the weight of a bike both
>>> accelerating and decelerating with a gear that would allow you to get
>>> anywhere in a reasonable amount of time.
>>>
>> I liked the SS bike it was light and fast. I couldn’t get on with fixed, I
>> missed freewheeling and well cornering at speed being the old MTBer I am,
>> so while I could ride fixed I didn’t enjoy it.
>>
>> Must try it in a velodrome one day and see how it feels!
>
> Good point about corners, which are not a problem in a velodrome. We
> just lost our neighborhood velodrome to development. Alpenrose was one
> of the steepest banked (43 degrees) permanent track in the US.
> https://hips.hearstapps.com/hmg-prod.s3.amazonaws.com/images/alpenrose-velodrome-09558-1569889293.jpg?resize=980:*
> https://pamplinmedia.com/images/artimg/00003582137737.jpg Surface
> repairs: https://tinyurl.com/yftde5yj
>
> Minimum speed was supposedly 12mph through the turn, otherwise, you fell
> off the bank. I was racing there one day, and I picked up some glass
> riding over from my house and flatted at the top of the bank and went
> sliding down, which was embarrassing. it was a great little track and
> always open. You could just go over there and ride around on a road bike
> if you were so inclined, which I would do with my son. Sad comment on
> development, but its hard running an inner-city dairy with a bunch of
> free facilities centered on 1950s activities (little league fields, etc.).
>
> -- Jay Beattie.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

There is a old velodrome deep in south london which I have visited for CX
racing a Halloween special! But not for 10 years or so, is the more modern
one from the 2012 Olympics and one in Newport.

Melbourne Australia seem to have quite a load of open air ones which was
good to see.

Roger Merriman

On Friday, November 12, 2021 at 2:56:20 PM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote:
> On 11/12/2021 4:36 PM, jbeattie wrote:
> > On Friday, November 12, 2021 at 1:58:18 PM UTC-8, Roger Merriman wrote:
> >> Tom Kunich <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>> On Thursday, November 11, 2021 at 2:56:57 PM UTC-8, Joerg wrote:
> >>>> On 11/10/21 6:21 AM, William Crowell wrote:
> >>>>> Years and years ago, Heidi Hopkins (a Berkeley, CA racer) told me to
> >>>>> use a 67, but she was young, in great shape and had a favorable BMI..
> >>>>> Those facts are inapplicable to the instant case, as the judges and
> >>>>> J.B. would say. What size gear would you treacherous oldsters use for
> >>>>> hilly fixed-gear work?
> >>>>>
> >>>> Just curious, why would you want a fixed-gear bike in our rather hilly
> >>>> area? For us older guys that sounds like a recipe for ruining the knee
> >>>> joints. And on the downhill without a brake you'd be one chain-throw
> >>>> away from a nasty crash.
> >>>>
> >>>> To me all this fixed gear business sounds like masochism :-)
> >>>
> >>> I have a serious concern for people that ride fixed gears anywhere for
> >>> any reason. I cannot imagine fighting the weight of a bike both
> >>> accelerating and decelerating with a gear that would allow you to get
> >>> anywhere in a reasonable amount of time.
> >>>
> >> I liked the SS bike it was light and fast. I couldn’t get on with fixed, I
> >> missed freewheeling and well cornering at speed being the old MTBer I am,
> >> so while I could ride fixed I didn’t enjoy it.
> >>
> >> Must try it in a velodrome one day and see how it feels!
> >
> > Good point about corners, which are not a problem in a velodrome. We just lost our neighborhood velodrome to development. Alpenrose was one of the steepest banked (43 degrees) permanent track in the US. https://hips.hearstapps.com/hmg-prod.s3.amazonaws.com/images/alpenrose-velodrome-09558-1569889293.jpg?resize=980:* https://pamplinmedia.com/images/artimg/00003582137737.jpg Surface repairs: https://tinyurl.com/yftde5yj
> >
> > Minimum speed was supposedly 12mph through the turn, otherwise, you fell off the bank. I was racing there one day, and I picked up some glass riding over from my house and flatted at the top of the bank and went sliding down, which was embarrassing. it was a great little track and always open. You could just go over there and ride around on a road bike if you were so inclined, which I would do with my son. Sad comment on development, but its hard running an inner-city dairy with a bunch of free facilities centered on 1950s activities (little league fields, etc.).
> Yes, that's a sad story. Kenosha isn't all that banked but
> it's outlasted many others:
>
> https://www.visitkenosha.com/listing/washington-park-velodrome/416/
>
> https://www.kenoshavelodromeracing.com/tuesday-night-racing/

It looks like the Hellyer Park Velodrome in San Jose. https://en.wikipedia..org/wiki/Hellyer_Park_Velodrome That's the first place I raced track back in the '70s. Public park velodromes have a chance of success -- you can always get some 501(c)(3) to run them, and the land isn't going to get sold -- although someone may want to change the use to a petting zoo or something. Alpenrose was owned by Alpenrose Dairy, which basically held itself out as a public park. They also had cows and made ice cream, and school kids would tour the place. It was like a slice of life from the 1950s. It was also a great CX venue with huge fields. https://www.flickr.com/photos/bikeportland/8065467630
But then things changed, the land got super-valuable . . . so bye-bye track and little league fields and BMX course, etc. https://www.oregonlive.com/business/2021/05/alpenrose-dairy-property-could-become-193-house-subdivision..html I really can't blame them -- it is valuable private property in a residential area with a bunch of non-revenue generating entertainment venues, but I'll miss it.

-- Jay Beattie.

On Fri, 12 Nov 2021 15:57:55 -0800 (PST),
jbeattie <jbeattie57@msn.com> wrote:
> On Friday, November 12, 2021 at 2:56:20 PM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote:
> > On 11/12/2021 4:36 PM, jbeattie wrote:
> > > On Friday, November 12, 2021 at 1:58:18 PM UTC-8, Roger Merriman wrote:
> > >> Tom Kunich <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > >>> On Thursday, November 11, 2021 at 2:56:57 PM UTC-8, Joerg wrote:
> > >>>> On 11/10/21 6:21 AM, William Crowell wrote:
> > >>>>> Years and years ago, Heidi Hopkins (a Berkeley, CA
> > >>>>> racer) told me to use a 67, but she was young, in great
> > >>>>> shape and had a favorable BMI. Those facts are
> > >>>>> inapplicable to the instant case, as the judges and J.B.
> > >>>>> would say. What size gear would you treacherous oldsters
> > >>>>> use for hilly fixed-gear work?
> > >>>>>
> > >>>> Just curious, why would you want a fixed-gear bike in our
> > >>>> rather hilly area? For us older guys that sounds like a
> > >>>> recipe for ruining the knee joints. And on the downhill
> > >>>> without a brake you'd be one chain-throw away from a
> > >>>> nasty crash.
> > >>>>
> > >>>> To me all this fixed gear business sounds like masochism
> > >>>> :-)

I suppose it could be, depending on the conditions you tackle. On
relatively flat terrain it can be quite enjoyable; it's also a
pretty bulletproof system in bad weather. Nice article from
Sheldon Brown (may he rest in peace):

https://www.sheldonbrown.com/fixed.html

> > >>> I have a serious concern for people that ride fixed gears
> > >>> anywhere for any reason. I cannot imagine fighting the
> > >>> weight of a bike both accelerating and decelerating with a
> > >>> gear that would allow you to get anywhere in a reasonable
> > >>> amount of time.
> > >>>
> > >> I liked the SS bike it was light and fast. I couldn???????t
> > >> get on with fixed, I missed freewheeling and well cornering
> > >> at speed being the old MTBer I am, so while I could ride
> > >> fixed I didn???????t enjoy it.
> > >>
> > >> Must try it in a velodrome one day and see how it feels!
> > >
> > > Good point about corners, which are not a problem in a
> > > velodrome. We just lost our neighborhood velodrome to
> > > development. Alpenrose was one of the steepest banked (43
> > > degrees) permanent track in the US.
> > > https://hips.hearstapps.com/hmg-prod.s3.amazonaws.com/images/alpenrose-velodrome-09558-1569889293.jpg?resize=980:*
> > > https://pamplinmedia.com/images/artimg/00003582137737.jpg
> > > Surface repairs: https://tinyurl.com/yftde5yj
> > >
> > > Minimum speed was supposedly 12mph through the turn,
> > > otherwise, you fell off the bank. I was racing there one
> > > day, and I picked up some glass riding over from my house
> > > and flatted at the top of the bank and went sliding down,
> > > which was embarrassing. it was a great little track and
> > > always open. You could just go over there and ride around on
> > > a road bike if you were so inclined, which I would do with
> > > my son. Sad comment on development, but its hard running an
> > > inner-city dairy with a bunch of free facilities centered on
> > > 1950s activities (little league fields, etc.).

> > Yes, that's a sad story. Kenosha isn't all that banked but
> > it's outlasted many others:
> >
> > https://www.visitkenosha.com/listing/washington-park-velodrome/416/
> >
> > https://www.kenoshavelodromeracing.com/tuesday-night-racing/
>
> It looks like the Hellyer Park Velodrome in San Jose.
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hellyer_Park_Velodrome That's the
> first place I raced track back in the '70s. Public park
> velodromes have a chance of success -- you can always get some
> 501(c)(3) to run them, and the land isn't going to get sold --
> although someone may want to change the use to a petting zoo or
> something. Alpenrose was owned by Alpenrose Dairy, which
> basically held itself out as a public park. They also had cows
> and made ice cream, and school kids would tour the place. It
> was like a slice of life from the 1950s. It was also a great
> CX venue with huge fields.
> https://www.flickr.com/photos/bikeportland/8065467630 But then
> things changed, the land got super-valuable . . . so bye-bye
> track and little league fields and BMX course, etc.
> https://www.oregonlive.com/business/2021/05/alpenrose-dairy-property-could-become-193-house-subdivision.html
> I really can't blame them -- it is valuable private property in
> a residential area with a bunch of non-revenue generating
> entertainment venues, but I'll miss it.

I'm fortunate to have the Major Taylor velodrome just down the
way. I've never tried my hand at riding it (shame), but have
attended a few events there. It's concrete, so maybe not as nice
as a wood track(?), but maybe less maintenance?

It's part of a park that now includes skateboard and BMX
facilities. The park is owned by Indianapolis Parks and
Recreation Department, and is currently being operated by Marian
University.

https://indycycloplex.com/track

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Major_Taylor_Velodrome

--
Ted Heise <theise@panix.com> West Lafayette, IN, USA

On Saturday, November 13, 2021 at 6:03:33 AM UTC-8, Ted Heise wrote:
> On Fri, 12 Nov 2021 15:57:55 -0800 (PST),
> jbeattie <jbeat...@msn.com> wrote:
> > On Friday, November 12, 2021 at 2:56:20 PM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote:
> > > On 11/12/2021 4:36 PM, jbeattie wrote:
> > > > On Friday, November 12, 2021 at 1:58:18 PM UTC-8, Roger Merriman wrote:
> > > >> Tom Kunich <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > >>> On Thursday, November 11, 2021 at 2:56:57 PM UTC-8, Joerg wrote:
> > > >>>> On 11/10/21 6:21 AM, William Crowell wrote:
> > > >>>>> Years and years ago, Heidi Hopkins (a Berkeley, CA
> > > >>>>> racer) told me to use a 67, but she was young, in great
> > > >>>>> shape and had a favorable BMI. Those facts are
> > > >>>>> inapplicable to the instant case, as the judges and J.B.
> > > >>>>> would say. What size gear would you treacherous oldsters
> > > >>>>> use for hilly fixed-gear work?
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>> Just curious, why would you want a fixed-gear bike in our
> > > >>>> rather hilly area? For us older guys that sounds like a
> > > >>>> recipe for ruining the knee joints. And on the downhill
> > > >>>> without a brake you'd be one chain-throw away from a
> > > >>>> nasty crash.
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>> To me all this fixed gear business sounds like masochism
> > > >>>> :-)
> I suppose it could be, depending on the conditions you tackle. On
> relatively flat terrain it can be quite enjoyable; it's also a
> pretty bulletproof system in bad weather. Nice article from
> Sheldon Brown (may he rest in peace):
>
> https://www.sheldonbrown.com/fixed.html
> > > >>> I have a serious concern for people that ride fixed gears
> > > >>> anywhere for any reason. I cannot imagine fighting the
> > > >>> weight of a bike both accelerating and decelerating with a
> > > >>> gear that would allow you to get anywhere in a reasonable
> > > >>> amount of time.
> > > >>>
> > > >> I liked the SS bike it was light and fast. I couldn???????t
> > > >> get on with fixed, I missed freewheeling and well cornering
> > > >> at speed being the old MTBer I am, so while I could ride
> > > >> fixed I didn???????t enjoy it.
> > > >>
> > > >> Must try it in a velodrome one day and see how it feels!
> > > >
> > > > Good point about corners, which are not a problem in a
> > > > velodrome. We just lost our neighborhood velodrome to
> > > > development. Alpenrose was one of the steepest banked (43
> > > > degrees) permanent track in the US.
> > > > https://hips.hearstapps.com/hmg-prod.s3.amazonaws.com/images/alpenrose-velodrome-09558-1569889293.jpg?resize=980:*
> > > > https://pamplinmedia.com/images/artimg/00003582137737.jpg
> > > > Surface repairs: https://tinyurl.com/yftde5yj
> > > >
> > > > Minimum speed was supposedly 12mph through the turn,
> > > > otherwise, you fell off the bank. I was racing there one
> > > > day, and I picked up some glass riding over from my house
> > > > and flatted at the top of the bank and went sliding down,
> > > > which was embarrassing. it was a great little track and
> > > > always open. You could just go over there and ride around on
> > > > a road bike if you were so inclined, which I would do with
> > > > my son. Sad comment on development, but its hard running an
> > > > inner-city dairy with a bunch of free facilities centered on
> > > > 1950s activities (little league fields, etc.).
>
> > > Yes, that's a sad story. Kenosha isn't all that banked but
> > > it's outlasted many others:
> > >
> > > https://www.visitkenosha.com/listing/washington-park-velodrome/416/
> > >
> > > https://www.kenoshavelodromeracing.com/tuesday-night-racing/
> >
> > It looks like the Hellyer Park Velodrome in San Jose.
> > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hellyer_Park_Velodrome That's the
> > first place I raced track back in the '70s. Public park
> > velodromes have a chance of success -- you can always get some
> > 501(c)(3) to run them, and the land isn't going to get sold --
> > although someone may want to change the use to a petting zoo or
> > something. Alpenrose was owned by Alpenrose Dairy, which
> > basically held itself out as a public park. They also had cows
> > and made ice cream, and school kids would tour the place. It
> > was like a slice of life from the 1950s. It was also a great
> > CX venue with huge fields.
> > https://www.flickr.com/photos/bikeportland/8065467630 But then
> > things changed, the land got super-valuable . . . so bye-bye
> > track and little league fields and BMX course, etc.
> > https://www.oregonlive.com/business/2021/05/alpenrose-dairy-property-could-become-193-house-subdivision.html
> > I really can't blame them -- it is valuable private property in
> > a residential area with a bunch of non-revenue generating
> > entertainment venues, but I'll miss it.
> I'm fortunate to have the Major Taylor velodrome just down the
> way. I've never tried my hand at riding it (shame), but have
> attended a few events there. It's concrete, so maybe not as nice
> as a wood track(?), but maybe less maintenance?
>
> It's part of a park that now includes skateboard and BMX
> facilities. The park is owned by Indianapolis Parks and
> Recreation Department, and is currently being operated by Marian
> University.
>
> https://indycycloplex.com/track
>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Major_Taylor_Velodrome
I've attended many races down at our local velodrome without ever having the inclination to try riding a fixy.

On Saturday, November 13, 2021 at 7:39:55 AM UTC-8, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Saturday, November 13, 2021 at 6:03:33 AM UTC-8, Ted Heise wrote:
> > On Fri, 12 Nov 2021 15:57:55 -0800 (PST),
> > jbeattie <jbeat...@msn.com> wrote:
> > > On Friday, November 12, 2021 at 2:56:20 PM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote:
> > > > On 11/12/2021 4:36 PM, jbeattie wrote:
> > > > > On Friday, November 12, 2021 at 1:58:18 PM UTC-8, Roger Merriman wrote:
> > > > >> Tom Kunich <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > >>> On Thursday, November 11, 2021 at 2:56:57 PM UTC-8, Joerg wrote:
> > > > >>>> On 11/10/21 6:21 AM, William Crowell wrote:
> > > > >>>>> Years and years ago, Heidi Hopkins (a Berkeley, CA
> > > > >>>>> racer) told me to use a 67, but she was young, in great
> > > > >>>>> shape and had a favorable BMI. Those facts are
> > > > >>>>> inapplicable to the instant case, as the judges and J.B.
> > > > >>>>> would say. What size gear would you treacherous oldsters
> > > > >>>>> use for hilly fixed-gear work?
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>> Just curious, why would you want a fixed-gear bike in our
> > > > >>>> rather hilly area? For us older guys that sounds like a
> > > > >>>> recipe for ruining the knee joints. And on the downhill
> > > > >>>> without a brake you'd be one chain-throw away from a
> > > > >>>> nasty crash.
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>> To me all this fixed gear business sounds like masochism
> > > > >>>> :-)
> > I suppose it could be, depending on the conditions you tackle. On
> > relatively flat terrain it can be quite enjoyable; it's also a
> > pretty bulletproof system in bad weather. Nice article from
> > Sheldon Brown (may he rest in peace):
> >
> > https://www.sheldonbrown.com/fixed.html
> > > > >>> I have a serious concern for people that ride fixed gears
> > > > >>> anywhere for any reason. I cannot imagine fighting the
> > > > >>> weight of a bike both accelerating and decelerating with a
> > > > >>> gear that would allow you to get anywhere in a reasonable
> > > > >>> amount of time.
> > > > >>>
> > > > >> I liked the SS bike it was light and fast. I couldn???????t
> > > > >> get on with fixed, I missed freewheeling and well cornering
> > > > >> at speed being the old MTBer I am, so while I could ride
> > > > >> fixed I didn???????t enjoy it.
> > > > >>
> > > > >> Must try it in a velodrome one day and see how it feels!
> > > > >
> > > > > Good point about corners, which are not a problem in a
> > > > > velodrome. We just lost our neighborhood velodrome to
> > > > > development. Alpenrose was one of the steepest banked (43
> > > > > degrees) permanent track in the US.
> > > > > https://hips.hearstapps.com/hmg-prod.s3.amazonaws.com/images/alpenrose-velodrome-09558-1569889293.jpg?resize=980:*
> > > > > https://pamplinmedia.com/images/artimg/00003582137737.jpg
> > > > > Surface repairs: https://tinyurl.com/yftde5yj
> > > > >
> > > > > Minimum speed was supposedly 12mph through the turn,
> > > > > otherwise, you fell off the bank. I was racing there one
> > > > > day, and I picked up some glass riding over from my house
> > > > > and flatted at the top of the bank and went sliding down,
> > > > > which was embarrassing. it was a great little track and
> > > > > always open. You could just go over there and ride around on
> > > > > a road bike if you were so inclined, which I would do with
> > > > > my son. Sad comment on development, but its hard running an
> > > > > inner-city dairy with a bunch of free facilities centered on
> > > > > 1950s activities (little league fields, etc.).
> >
> > > > Yes, that's a sad story. Kenosha isn't all that banked but
> > > > it's outlasted many others:
> > > >
> > > > https://www.visitkenosha.com/listing/washington-park-velodrome/416/
> > > >
> > > > https://www.kenoshavelodromeracing.com/tuesday-night-racing/
> > >
> > > It looks like the Hellyer Park Velodrome in San Jose.
> > > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hellyer_Park_Velodrome That's the
> > > first place I raced track back in the '70s. Public park
> > > velodromes have a chance of success -- you can always get some
> > > 501(c)(3) to run them, and the land isn't going to get sold --
> > > although someone may want to change the use to a petting zoo or
> > > something. Alpenrose was owned by Alpenrose Dairy, which
> > > basically held itself out as a public park. They also had cows
> > > and made ice cream, and school kids would tour the place. It
> > > was like a slice of life from the 1950s. It was also a great
> > > CX venue with huge fields.
> > > https://www.flickr.com/photos/bikeportland/8065467630 But then
> > > things changed, the land got super-valuable . . . so bye-bye
> > > track and little league fields and BMX course, etc.
> > > https://www.oregonlive.com/business/2021/05/alpenrose-dairy-property-could-become-193-house-subdivision.html
> > > I really can't blame them -- it is valuable private property in
> > > a residential area with a bunch of non-revenue generating
> > > entertainment venues, but I'll miss it.
> > I'm fortunate to have the Major Taylor velodrome just down the
> > way. I've never tried my hand at riding it (shame), but have
> > attended a few events there. It's concrete, so maybe not as nice
> > as a wood track(?), but maybe less maintenance?
> >
> > It's part of a park that now includes skateboard and BMX
> > facilities. The park is owned by Indianapolis Parks and
> > Recreation Department, and is currently being operated by Marian
> > University.
> >
> > https://indycycloplex.com/track
> >
> > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Major_Taylor_Velodrome
> I've attended many races down at our local velodrome without ever having the inclination to try riding a fixy.

Didn't you race? Apart from track racing, fixies were prescribed for off-season training -- or at least that was SOP in the '70s and '80s in San Jose. Fixie riding on the road wasn't a thing for the teams I rode on in Oregon, but it was still a thing for roller riding. Everyone wanted to be the 200rmp guy, which I wasn't. Long femurs are inconsistent with 200rpms. Actual track racing includes a lot of events, some of which were more to my endurance bent rather than pure sprint power, but it was fun and a whole other thing than road racing because on a 43 degree bank, it gets a lot more three-dimensional, like being in a plane. You look up and down and not just across the road.

I've told this story before, but once again, I climbed Mt. Hamilton from the SW side on a fixie, which wasn't a big deal because of the moderate grade.. https://www.southbayriders.com/forums/attachments/17426/ The descent, however, was miserable. I flipped the wheel and hung the chain over the axle. I had a brake and that worked, and then I flipped it back for the climb out of Grant Ranch and the second climb out before descending into SJ.

-- Jay Beattie.

On Friday, November 12, 2021 at 4:36:56 PM UTC-6, jbeattie wrote:
> On Friday, November 12, 2021 at 1:58:18 PM UTC-8, Roger Merriman wrote:
> > Tom Kunich <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > On Thursday, November 11, 2021 at 2:56:57 PM UTC-8, Joerg wrote:
> > >> On 11/10/21 6:21 AM, William Crowell wrote:
> > >>> Years and years ago, Heidi Hopkins (a Berkeley, CA racer) told me to
> > >>> use a 67, but she was young, in great shape and had a favorable BMI..
> > >>> Those facts are inapplicable to the instant case, as the judges and
> > >>> J.B. would say. What size gear would you treacherous oldsters use for
> > >>> hilly fixed-gear work?
> > >>>
> > >> Just curious, why would you want a fixed-gear bike in our rather hilly
> > >> area? For us older guys that sounds like a recipe for ruining the knee
> > >> joints. And on the downhill without a brake you'd be one chain-throw
> > >> away from a nasty crash.
> > >>
> > >> To me all this fixed gear business sounds like masochism :-)
> > >
> > > I have a serious concern for people that ride fixed gears anywhere for
> > > any reason. I cannot imagine fighting the weight of a bike both
> > > accelerating and decelerating with a gear that would allow you to get
> > > anywhere in a reasonable amount of time.
> > >
> > I liked the SS bike it was light and fast. I couldn’t get on with fixed, I
> > missed freewheeling and well cornering at speed being the old MTBer I am,
> > so while I could ride fixed I didn’t enjoy it.
> >
> > Must try it in a velodrome one day and see how it feels!
> Good point about corners, which are not a problem in a velodrome. We just lost our neighborhood velodrome to development. Alpenrose was one of the steepest banked (43 degrees) permanent track in the US. https://hips.hearstapps.com/hmg-prod.s3.amazonaws.com/images/alpenrose-velodrome-09558-1569889293.jpg?resize=980:* https://pamplinmedia.com/images/artimg/00003582137737..jpg

>Surface repairs: https://tinyurl.com/yftde5yj

You had to use a ladder to get up to the repairs on the track? Oh my. That is a bit steep.

>
> Minimum speed was supposedly 12mph through the turn, otherwise, you fell off the bank. I was racing there one day, and I picked up some glass riding over from my house and flatted at the top of the bank and went sliding down, which was embarrassing. it was a great little track and always open. You could just go over there and ride around on a road bike if you were so inclined, which I would do with my son. Sad comment on development, but its hard running an inner-city dairy with a bunch of free facilities centered on 1950s activities (little league fields, etc.).
>
> -- Jay Beattie.

On Saturday, November 13, 2021 at 2:39:54 PM UTC-8, russellseaton1@yahoo.com wrote:
> On Friday, November 12, 2021 at 4:36:56 PM UTC-6, jbeattie wrote:
> > On Friday, November 12, 2021 at 1:58:18 PM UTC-8, Roger Merriman wrote:
> > > Tom Kunich <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > On Thursday, November 11, 2021 at 2:56:57 PM UTC-8, Joerg wrote:
> > > >> On 11/10/21 6:21 AM, William Crowell wrote:
> > > >>> Years and years ago, Heidi Hopkins (a Berkeley, CA racer) told me to
> > > >>> use a 67, but she was young, in great shape and had a favorable BMI.
> > > >>> Those facts are inapplicable to the instant case, as the judges and
> > > >>> J.B. would say. What size gear would you treacherous oldsters use for
> > > >>> hilly fixed-gear work?
> > > >>>
> > > >> Just curious, why would you want a fixed-gear bike in our rather hilly
> > > >> area? For us older guys that sounds like a recipe for ruining the knee
> > > >> joints. And on the downhill without a brake you'd be one chain-throw
> > > >> away from a nasty crash.
> > > >>
> > > >> To me all this fixed gear business sounds like masochism :-)
> > > >
> > > > I have a serious concern for people that ride fixed gears anywhere for
> > > > any reason. I cannot imagine fighting the weight of a bike both
> > > > accelerating and decelerating with a gear that would allow you to get
> > > > anywhere in a reasonable amount of time.
> > > >
> > > I liked the SS bike it was light and fast. I couldn’t get on with fixed, I
> > > missed freewheeling and well cornering at speed being the old MTBer I am,
> > > so while I could ride fixed I didn’t enjoy it.
> > >
> > > Must try it in a velodrome one day and see how it feels!
> > Good point about corners, which are not a problem in a velodrome. We just lost our neighborhood velodrome to development. Alpenrose was one of the steepest banked (43 degrees) permanent track in the US. https://hips.hearstapps.com/hmg-prod.s3.amazonaws.com/images/alpenrose-velodrome-09558-1569889293.jpg?resize=980:* https://pamplinmedia.com/images/artimg/00003582137737.jpg
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> >Surface repairs: https://tinyurl.com/yftde5yj
> You had to use a ladder to get up to the repairs on the track? Oh my. That is a bit steep.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jmCe099jt5g&ab_channel=DustinKlein Go to 1:29-1;50, the part of the track I disliked was the ladder down to the track, which was only a few rungs, but I always felt imperiled in cleats. The track was redone in the late '90s and was really nice for a few decades, and then it started getting tired again. Prior to being redone, the track had pot holes, and the transitions off the tops of the turns were like ski jumps.

We had a lot of track racing, Olympic trials and all sorts of stuff at that track. Thursday night practices and Friday night races. You could rent a fixed gear and give it a whirl in a citizens event or just ride a road bike. When my wife was a grade school kid, she went to Alpenrose for the dairy tour -- saw the cows and got a giant bowl of ice cream. Those days are sadly behind us. https://www.koin.com/local/an-epitaph-for-portlands-alpenrose-dairy/

-- Jay Beattie.

On Saturday, November 13, 2021 at 9:57:11 AM UTC-8, jbeattie wrote:
> On Saturday, November 13, 2021 at 7:39:55 AM UTC-8, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
> > On Saturday, November 13, 2021 at 6:03:33 AM UTC-8, Ted Heise wrote:
> > > On Fri, 12 Nov 2021 15:57:55 -0800 (PST),
> > > jbeattie <jbeat...@msn.com> wrote:
> > > > On Friday, November 12, 2021 at 2:56:20 PM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote:
> > > > > On 11/12/2021 4:36 PM, jbeattie wrote:
> > > > > > On Friday, November 12, 2021 at 1:58:18 PM UTC-8, Roger Merriman wrote:
> > > > > >> Tom Kunich <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > >>> On Thursday, November 11, 2021 at 2:56:57 PM UTC-8, Joerg wrote:
> > > > > >>>> On 11/10/21 6:21 AM, William Crowell wrote:
> > > > > >>>>> Years and years ago, Heidi Hopkins (a Berkeley, CA
> > > > > >>>>> racer) told me to use a 67, but she was young, in great
> > > > > >>>>> shape and had a favorable BMI. Those facts are
> > > > > >>>>> inapplicable to the instant case, as the judges and J.B.
> > > > > >>>>> would say. What size gear would you treacherous oldsters
> > > > > >>>>> use for hilly fixed-gear work?
> > > > > >>>>>
> > > > > >>>> Just curious, why would you want a fixed-gear bike in our
> > > > > >>>> rather hilly area? For us older guys that sounds like a
> > > > > >>>> recipe for ruining the knee joints. And on the downhill
> > > > > >>>> without a brake you'd be one chain-throw away from a
> > > > > >>>> nasty crash.
> > > > > >>>>
> > > > > >>>> To me all this fixed gear business sounds like masochism
> > > > > >>>> :-)
> > > I suppose it could be, depending on the conditions you tackle. On
> > > relatively flat terrain it can be quite enjoyable; it's also a
> > > pretty bulletproof system in bad weather. Nice article from
> > > Sheldon Brown (may he rest in peace):
> > >
> > > https://www.sheldonbrown.com/fixed.html
> > > > > >>> I have a serious concern for people that ride fixed gears
> > > > > >>> anywhere for any reason. I cannot imagine fighting the
> > > > > >>> weight of a bike both accelerating and decelerating with a
> > > > > >>> gear that would allow you to get anywhere in a reasonable
> > > > > >>> amount of time.
> > > > > >>>
> > > > > >> I liked the SS bike it was light and fast. I couldn???????t
> > > > > >> get on with fixed, I missed freewheeling and well cornering
> > > > > >> at speed being the old MTBer I am, so while I could ride
> > > > > >> fixed I didn???????t enjoy it.
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> Must try it in a velodrome one day and see how it feels!
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Good point about corners, which are not a problem in a
> > > > > > velodrome. We just lost our neighborhood velodrome to
> > > > > > development. Alpenrose was one of the steepest banked (43
> > > > > > degrees) permanent track in the US.
> > > > > > https://hips.hearstapps.com/hmg-prod.s3.amazonaws.com/images/alpenrose-velodrome-09558-1569889293.jpg?resize=980:*
> > > > > > https://pamplinmedia.com/images/artimg/00003582137737.jpg
> > > > > > Surface repairs: https://tinyurl.com/yftde5yj
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Minimum speed was supposedly 12mph through the turn,
> > > > > > otherwise, you fell off the bank. I was racing there one
> > > > > > day, and I picked up some glass riding over from my house
> > > > > > and flatted at the top of the bank and went sliding down,
> > > > > > which was embarrassing. it was a great little track and
> > > > > > always open. You could just go over there and ride around on
> > > > > > a road bike if you were so inclined, which I would do with
> > > > > > my son. Sad comment on development, but its hard running an
> > > > > > inner-city dairy with a bunch of free facilities centered on
> > > > > > 1950s activities (little league fields, etc.).
> > >
> > > > > Yes, that's a sad story. Kenosha isn't all that banked but
> > > > > it's outlasted many others:
> > > > >
> > > > > https://www.visitkenosha.com/listing/washington-park-velodrome/416/
> > > > >
> > > > > https://www.kenoshavelodromeracing.com/tuesday-night-racing/
> > > >
> > > > It looks like the Hellyer Park Velodrome in San Jose.
> > > > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hellyer_Park_Velodrome That's the
> > > > first place I raced track back in the '70s. Public park
> > > > velodromes have a chance of success -- you can always get some
> > > > 501(c)(3) to run them, and the land isn't going to get sold --
> > > > although someone may want to change the use to a petting zoo or
> > > > something. Alpenrose was owned by Alpenrose Dairy, which
> > > > basically held itself out as a public park. They also had cows
> > > > and made ice cream, and school kids would tour the place. It
> > > > was like a slice of life from the 1950s. It was also a great
> > > > CX venue with huge fields.
> > > > https://www.flickr.com/photos/bikeportland/8065467630 But then
> > > > things changed, the land got super-valuable . . . so bye-bye
> > > > track and little league fields and BMX course, etc.
> > > > https://www.oregonlive.com/business/2021/05/alpenrose-dairy-property-could-become-193-house-subdivision.html
> > > > I really can't blame them -- it is valuable private property in
> > > > a residential area with a bunch of non-revenue generating
> > > > entertainment venues, but I'll miss it.
> > > I'm fortunate to have the Major Taylor velodrome just down the
> > > way. I've never tried my hand at riding it (shame), but have
> > > attended a few events there. It's concrete, so maybe not as nice
> > > as a wood track(?), but maybe less maintenance?
> > >
> > > It's part of a park that now includes skateboard and BMX
> > > facilities. The park is owned by Indianapolis Parks and
> > > Recreation Department, and is currently being operated by Marian
> > > University.
> > >
> > > https://indycycloplex.com/track
> > >
> > > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Major_Taylor_Velodrome
> > I've attended many races down at our local velodrome without ever having the inclination to try riding a fixy.
> Didn't you race? Apart from track racing, fixies were prescribed for off-season training -- or at least that was SOP in the '70s and '80s in San Jose. Fixie riding on the road wasn't a thing for the teams I rode on in Oregon, but it was still a thing for roller riding. Everyone wanted to be the 200rmp guy, which I wasn't. Long femurs are inconsistent with 200rpms. Actual track racing includes a lot of events, some of which were more to my endurance bent rather than pure sprint power, but it was fun and a whole other thing than road racing because on a 43 degree bank, it gets a lot more three-dimensional, like being in a plane. You look up and down and not just across the road.
>
> I've told this story before, but once again, I climbed Mt. Hamilton from the SW side on a fixie, which wasn't a big deal because of the moderate grade. https://www.southbayriders.com/forums/attachments/17426/ The descent, however, was miserable. I flipped the wheel and hung the chain over the axle.. I had a brake and that worked, and then I flipped it back for the climb out of Grant Ranch and the second climb out before descending into SJ.

Yes, I originally raced but never enough to get out of Cat 5 before getting my injuries since the races were right there in Livermore somewhere I can't remember. I have NEVER seen anyone "training" on a fixie. Tell me all about how you think you can climb passes on a fixie. The only thing that I can remember about racing was that I Cat 4 & 5 would start shortly after 1, 2 and 3. I would run right up to the tail end of the 3's and then suddenly I couldn't keep up with the 5's and I said something to the Army and they gave me all sorts of medical examinations and told me my lungs were full of poison gas scars. After my concussion I had every conceivable examination. My neurologist told me that there were no scars in my lungs and that these things heal. But when I had the standard physical exam last year with X-rays the specialist and my doctor wanted to know how the hell I got all of those scars. Since my neurologist has just recently stopped teaching neurology at Stanford I can only assume that he doesn't remember how to properly read a lung X-ray.

Tom Kunich wrote: 'I have NEVER seen anyone "training" on a fixie."

IIRC, Rebecca Twigg once attributed her race wins to her fixed-gear training.

On Saturday, November 13, 2021 at 5:11:49 PM UTC-8, William Crowell wrote:
> Tom Kunich wrote: 'I have NEVER seen anyone "training" on a fixie."
>
> IIRC, Rebecca Twigg once attributed her race wins to her fixed-gear training.

Tom must have gotten a late start on racing. I think Cat 5 came into being in the early '90s sometime. Off-season fixed gear training was SOP from the '70s through the '90s, after which I dropped any pretense of serious training and have no idea of whether it was still a thing in the 2000s. I just raced now and then and only rode track with my son as kind of a father-son thing. He was coached by a guy who was a friend of mine and ran a youth development program. I'd go out with his kids, which was fun ,although a little sketchy.

-- Jay Beattie.